The Quiet Manipulation of the Ego – Matthew M.

The purpose of the primetime Saturday night meeting is to talk about the reason to come to Alcoholics Anonymous, to expose alcoholism not just as a word but as a living mind-powered disease. How the disease appears in our lives today in order to deepen our awareness of what we are up against. Alcoholism is called ism because it is alive and functioning and needs to be treated. We discuss here strictly the disease as it manifests in each of our own personal lives, the way our behavior is this day, the way we react or look at people, places, and things. We do not talk about drunkologues, yesterday's problems, or blaming other people. We talk only about looking inwardly, describing how self behaves in the day we are in. First, we will have a speaker who will talk about the purpose of coming to AA for approximately 25 to 30 minutes. Then we will share our questions and answers. Sharing is strictly limited to five minutes or less. You will receive a warning signal at the end of three minutes. We want everyone to have a chance to participate. We do not allow foul language as these meetings are recorded and CDs travel all over. Okay, so my name is Matthew. I'm an alcoholic. And I haven't spoken in a meeting in a while. It's been, it seems like, I don't know, it's been at least like three months because I was out of town for a while and I haven't spoken since I've been back. So just trying to be present for it, be aware of what's going on and not try to operate from a place that I'm not at, you know? Not operate from the place of... or do my best to operate from a place deeper than self, a place cheaper than where my ego resides, which, as John talked about, really wants to separate me, make me a really important guy, a real special guy, or just a real loser. I'm not somebody naturally with the character that I built outside of AA and in through AA continue at times to build. I'm not the guy who is a humble guy, you know. I'm nicht der Arbeiter among Arbeitern, wie sie es sagen, in Alkoholik Synonymous, you now, I need to stand out in some way because I feel like if I can be special, better than you then I can feel better about myself and I think that's a pretty human thing, I just think as an alcoholic I have a very extreme variety of that an extreme neurosis about that they say in here I don't know who said it first I'll just say Bob Anderson said it first no actually it was either Bob Robert Ted said that, you know, not all neurotics are alcoholics, but all alcoholics are neurotics. And I think that fits me. And, you Know, if you look at it, you Now, there are a lot of crazy people in the world that don't necessarily have this disease, don't, You Know, spend years trying to drink themselves to death. So I guess the best place to start with this is a little bit about what is alcoholism for me in my life, what it's been and my understanding of it today. Because if I don't understand what that is, I don'T really know what I'm doing in AA because it had to do with just stopping drinking. I mean, I'm in my 10th year. Why am I here? It's ridiculous. I don't want to, you know, why would I have to come to an AA meeting? The reason I'm here is because I have alcoholism. You know, it's not just about the alcohol. That being said, there is a large, big part of it that does have to do with the alcohol, you know, the fact that I drink to oblivion. I drink for the effect of being drunk out of my mind. I do that. I don' t drink. You know, people say and it says in the book, you know, that the you know the obsession of every abnormal drinker is, you know, to drink normally. To me, that's that's not my obsession. Honestly, my obsession with alcohol is to finish everything that I see because I need to be completely obliterated. I never fantasize about a glass of wine. I fantasize About a case of wine, you Know, let's let's look at this truth. I mean, that's who I am. And that's not going away. It hasn't gone away in the last nine some years. So that tells me something right there that is a little bit abnormal about the way I think about alcohol. Why is it then, you know, since that is part of it, why is it that when I stop doing those behaviors, stop drinking to excess daily. Why is it that I am so crazy still? Why is that I'm in so much pain still? Why is this that I still find myself in situations that are just so humiliating and so painful to be in? and that's the part of the alcoholism that the alcohol itself is treating that I've found that's my experience now it may be for you that you just really like to drink and aside from that you're all good that's awesome that's not my experience my experience is that when I don't have alcohol in my system I get worse I don'T get better I get more crazy I get MORE irritable I get more selfish, I get more demanding and I need more to be satisfied that's my life without alcohol the beautiful thing about alcohol is that when I drink it I no longer really care that much I can be in the moment I'm not thinking about the things that I need from the future to work out my way so I can feel better or the things in my past that I regret and have guilt and shame about So alcohol was a tremendous tool for me for a long time because it really saved me from serious, I think probably suicide attempts. I made them anyway, but maybe there would have been more if I didn't have the alcohol there to quiet my mind at times or most of the time. so when I come here you know when I came to Alcoholics Anonymous when I first came here I heard a lot about just don't drink no matter what you know I go to a lot of meetings that I was in a sober living house they forgive us through a lotof meetings two meetings a day sometimes three and we had to go to these meetings and I was like just don' t drink you know life's hard but you know we get through it and we don' d drink and all this stuff and and that's how I did it I lived like that for a few months early on. And what I found is that my life just got worse, you know. And I was going to a lot of meetings. I was doing steps with this guy who's a really – I picked him because I thought he was a cool guy, this old Vietnam vet writer, like real kind of intellectual guy, just but real dark. And I thought I love this guy as a sponsor, so I picked Him. And, you Know, and what we worked up the steps was for alcohol. You know, we worked the stuff. I worked the sex with him to treat the alcohol part. So I didn't drink, but I was still an alcoholic with alcoholism untreated because the steps weren't in application for my alcoholism. So there's a little bit about that. So about alcoholism, so it's the two parts. You know I have this physical allergy and this obsession of the mind. And when the physical allergy is gone and I haven't taken a drink, the obsession is still there after years. And it's not for alcohol today. It's for basically anything that my mind tells me I need to be okay. So it could be a new car. Now all I think about is how I need that car and ways I'm going to manipulate my finances so I can get this car and whatever it might be or maybe a girl that I find attractive that she'd be a good, you know, girlfriend or whatever. I don't know. So I find this girl, you now? And I think if I get her, right, things are going to be great. Like, I mean, she's so hot and all this stuff. And then like, you kno, we sleep together and then I'm like, oh, I got to, you gna, I don' t like this person, you kno. Now I got ta like interact with him, you no? this is a selfish way of thinking you know I think that if I get what I want through my narrow vision of what I think it is that I want then I'll be okay but unfortunately there's never enough for me because when I get it then I want more you know when I Get It I Want More or I Get It and then I Want Something Else and no matter what I get, it's never enough. I have an unsatisfiable mind and that's what the obsession is it's that unsatisfiability that obsession for anything that it touches that i feel like i have to have to uh to be okay and that really sucks because it's there all the time it's always there as i you know whatever i'm doing in my life it's there from uh you know the time i open my eyes in the morning till the time I close my eyes at night and you know if I can sleep because of the obsession is so strong you know it's just always there and it becomes like a dull ache for my life this pain in my life of never getting what I think I need to be okay and always focusing on the outside. So that's painful and when I combine that with this idea of ego that we talk about in here and there are you know several ways that People in primetime, you know, and since I've been in this group, it's kind of shifted how we talk about ego. But, you now, if you look back at this guy, Harry Thiebaud, who wrote these papers that he studied alcoholics in the early days of Alcoholics Anonymous, and he talks very clearly about alcoholics. He talks about us, how we're always in a hurry, how nobody tells us no, how we don't like to be stopped. And I looked at that, I read that stuff, and I could see that in myself. I could say very clearly that that's who I was, that I might not be this angry, aggressive guy. It might operate in a much subtler way for me where I might manipulate the situation so that it tells you no but I don't have to say that out loud. I manipulate situations so that they work to my advantage without having to confront somebody. I'm not one of these angry, egoic people. I'm more of an egoic person that kind of manipulates quietly, you know? The other thing about ego that I do a lot of is there's two sides. There's the side that, you now, I'm a little better, so I need things special for myself. You know, I am better than you, so I have to do this. So I need these things. You don't deserve them. I do. You know? This idea of deserving something is such a... I love that, you know, when somebody says, you deserve it, you know. I feel like I always deserve it. Of course I do, you know. I mean, so I love that. You know, so I deserve it. That's the alcoholic thing. No matter what it is, what I've done, I deserve it and I deserve what I want when I want it. And if you say no to me, I get really pissed off, right? So the other side is the side that's the bottom of the heat part, you know. That's the other separation part where, where I'm just a loser. Nobody likes me, you know, nobody, nothing ever works out for me. It's completely self-obsessed, right? I mean, this is completely like, oh, I'm so different. Nobody understands. This is the opposite of the underside of ego that I carry probably more than the other side. You know, it's just self-pitying, you Know, oh it's so sad. My life is so bad, You know, and the thing about both of these parts of the ego is always pointing outside. It's always pointing saying you don't understand. You're the problem. And the creation of that prevents me from ever really having to look at myself and really seeing what it who am I? What am I doing? You know what's my part in this situation? So all this is wrapped up in this character that I bring here. I call self or we call self. That's how I define it, is the way I've lived my life through ego and alcoholism that creates this character, this self that I bring here that is really damaged and has a lot of pain and hurts other people and hurts itself, you know. And it's just really an awful way to live, but it's the only way I know. And when I come into AA and they talk about, you now, the steps, and we look at the first step, for me, the first step, admitting that I'm powerless over alcohol dashed that my life has become unmanageable is really important because it's the first place I really have to look at what is my life? Who am I? What am I ? What is unmanagability? What is an unmanangeable life? What are these things? And in prime time And the beautiful thing about this message here that I got was awareness of who I am and the way that I behave when I'm with this character, this self. And I'm really grateful for that because it helped me really see what was wrong with me now that alcohol is no longer in the picture. It helped me Really See What's Wrong, What's Really Wrong With Me. And there is something really wrong with me. There's something really wrong with somebody who has this sense of entitlement constantly in their life, who's constantly looking outside and finding fault with everybody and everything and the pain that that causes inside of me. There's nothing really wrong there. There's not something deeply disturbed there. And until I really started looking at that, I couldn't see it. I just thought it was alcohol. Alcohol, I drink, so it's bad. I shouldn't drink. But why do I drink, right? You know, I have friends that I sponsor and other friends who struggle with other addictions that we all do, whether it be gambling or spending money or sex or whatever it is. Why do I have the urge to go spend a bunch of money I don't have? What's the problem? I mean, the approach can't be for me It's just like, I just won't spend that money. You know, just like bear down and not do it. I've got to see what's making me so uncomfortable. Who is it? The character that, what am I telling myself so deeply that's creating this idea of escape with spending money or with sex or something like this? And that's what step one really gives me. It really gives you an awareness of what's really wrong with me. And then if I can become more and more aware of that, you know, it's amazing what can happen. It's amazing. What can happen when I start to bring in another power? You know, this step two stuff was a real problem for me at first. And I resisted it because the idea of a higher power, I mean, that's just I mean it's abhorrent. I mean come on. You know, I'm a smart person. This is ridiculous. God? No way. And this, to me, that my ego is in such resistance to the idea of something greater than myself that I point the finger, you know, religious people, you now, horrible, it's terrible, look what they do in the name of religion. All this stuff is in 12 and 12 in the big book in the agnostics. But if you look at the 12 and 11, what I had to do is I had quit the debating society. you know I had to really stop arguing with myself about this stuff and I had to just try for a second to look at having an open mind and the idea of an open mind comes when I admit complete defeat. The idea of step two and bringing a power greater than self into the picture comes at complete defeat and the way I get to complete defeat is in in that awareness in step one for me is like I'll give you an example of something that just happened with complete defeat for me and um you know this is it might seem like a really silly example but but this is something that most recently happened you know I'm really close with my my mom we're good we're close we talk a lot and and um and uh we've always I've always been very honest with her since i've been been been gotten sober and we did the amends and everything and we have a really good relationship um but she decided that i i decided i you know i wanted to get a vespa right and she told me one time she said whatever you do just just wait till i'm dead till you get one of those a motorcycle or a vesper or something like that just wait until i'm dead. I just don't want, you know, and I was like, no, I mean, that's too, I want that. I'm going to do what I want. Right? So about a year, two years ago, I went and I bought one of these Vespas and I loved it, but I didn't tell her a thing about it, you know, because I told myself the really responsible thing to do is not tell her because she would feel bad. You know, she knew, right, that I was, I was doing this um so I was doing some some uh my mom was in town last last weekend and I was at my house and and I Was doing some remodeling stuff and and there were some documents kind of spread out and she sees a title from my uh from my vespas in there she's like and like her just all the blood went out of her face you know and she was and she wasn't mad she was just she was destroyed by the fact that I would just lie to her and not tell her the truth you know and the first thing that happened was my ego is like come on you're 34 years old you can do whatever the hell you want she what is she gonna say and then you know in through the course of that and seeing that come on I could see the alcoholism trying to to defend itself that sense of entitlement you know I do whatever i want screw you and i started to see just the pain that it was causing her that that i i really i i lied to her you know um and regardless of how i feel about riding a scooter in la you know what's the big deal that's not the important part the important thing is i really hurt somebody i care about and seeing that was really powerful for me it was really painful You know, and that awareness really brought about a complete defeat. And I said, you know what? Like, this is really wrong. You know? And I thought, I'll sell it. You know. And I came from a place of just real surrender. And we had a great talk about it. My sponsees were there that night when I kind of realized that this has happened before I talked to her. You know! And what an incredible experience that was. You know?! Um, and, uh, that's complete defeat came. And in that moment, you know, there was a power there. There was a powerful, you call it what you want, the higher self, the God within whatever you want to call it, you Know, but it was there and it told me exactly what to tell her. You know, I told me Exactly what to say, exactly how to say it. And, um, it was powerful. It was so powerful for me. So, that's kind of an example to me where step one, I see this complete defeat. My God, look what I've done. You know? It was wrong. And seeing my ego get all riled up and my alcoholism. You deserve all this stuff, you know? And just being able to say, you knows, surrender in that moment. And go to a different place. You know, go and go deeper and touch that part of me that's God or whatever. these words are so loaded it's hard to talk about them you know but you know the idea of God being within me I could go in there and connect with it and I and then I can be a new person I can be a giver I can I can Be An Honest Person you know so from that place you know when that happens over and over again what I start to develop you know is a character you know I start to develop a character that starts to go to a higher power rather than the power of self. And then it becomes about the rubber meeting the road for me in step three is which way am I going to go? Am I going to go the way that I want to go knowing full well how that pans out and how that affects my life or am I willing to go, willing just right now to go this other way and see if maybe this other way could work for me. and more and more I'm going that other way. There are certain things I do not want God to have anything to do with. I mean, it's my business, you know. This is my stuff, you Know. No way. But those things are getting less and less, you know, and as I go through this process in later steps, I'm willing to let go of those things on a deeper and deeper level. Where am I at? What time are we at? Okay, cool. So, I really believe for me that the steps happen on a lot of different levels and a lot of different time scales of time. I really think for me, going through the steps in a very kind of methodical way with a sponsor and taking my time to really understand what is going on, what are the principles here and applying them, you know, one at a time as I go through the books and read and doing the fourth step and going through these. That's so important. And that can take some time as a kind of a formal steps, you know, and that to me is something that's very important. But then there's another part of the steps that I think really happens daily for me. and and it's it's this is the it's the part that is really where the rubber meets the road it's really where you know i talk about this stuff or am i talking about this stuff or i'm going to do this stuff you know and when my eyes open in the morning um that's that's when my program that's step one has to start and if it doesn't start there I don't have a program I just I don' t have a program it doesn' t matter how many times formally I've done the steps it doesn't matter how many meetings I've been to how many sponsors I've had when I open my eyes in the morning am I going to do this program for my life today or am I not and it's gotten very clear as my step 2 and my step 11 especially has gotten deeper and deeper and deeper that if I don'T start this thing the very first thing in the morning I don't have a chance and to me this is my experience I need to share what I do I mean you do whatever works for you but this is my experience is that unless I really go for this first thing of the morning I don' t I don''t have a change and to be honest to me it's not waking up and sitting down reading three pages from the book doing a five minute meditation and going about my day that's not enough for me I'm a sick man. I'm not enough for me. I have to actually get out of bed and leave my house and go to a place where there are other people, spiritual people, you know, doing meditation or yoga. For me it's yoga every morning and do that practice and wake up with that power. if I don't do that I'm not guaranteed a good day in fact there's a good chance that I'll have a pretty crappy day because I am so sick I need to be like bludgeoned at the beginning into this awareness and bludioned into this relationship with this higher power I mean I can't just wake up and oh put on some coffee read a little bit oh it's so nice And then I really have to like get down and dirty with this thing, you know. And for me that's really important. I have to be really aware, really become aware of what is going on inside of my mind. What's pulling me out of the moment over and over and ever again. And doing like a really like intensive physical yoga practice for me is what helps me with that. Now that could be anything for anybody else. I don't know. I mean, my guys are sick of hearing about all this crap, I'm sure. But if I do something, they come to me because they want what I have. So all I can share with them is what I do, right? I mean I can't share like some hypothetical thing about AA that I don't know anything about. All I can show is what you do and what works and what doesn't work. So when I start my day like that, I feel connected, man. I mean, I'm driving home and like I'm looking around and looking at other people in cars and like I'm feeling connected. I'm feel grateful to be alive, you know, and from that place I can really build my day on a foundation of recovery of awareness of that relationship with my higher power, you know, of really seeing what things are so when things disturbing come up in my day, I know how to handle situations that used to baffle me because I'm aware of them. Now, it's not just because I get up and I go to yoga in the morning that I have a good day. That's not it. This isn't this isn't a yoga program. This is an AA program. So what it's about is about me because I've done these steps for so long. You know, I have a deeper awareness of certain aspects of them than I did when I first started. Right. so and I've seen where the places I need more spirituality for me um and so like if I just 10 year nine and a half years ago started just oh I'll just go to yoga every morning and then okay that doesn't work that will not work for me the thing is is that when I go in my day I'm bringing all the steps into my life it's all based on awareness it's All Based On Awareness and God and that willingness to go in the direction of spirituality and a higher power but there are more steps and if I don't do those in my day I don' t have enough I just don' T have enough and I' L get derailed in step three I'L L get resentful and mad at somebody and not know why and I'm back in step one over and over again throughout the day my days are really simple if i get up and i do my spiritual practice in the morning it's very easy for me to have the steps all day long and i sleep well at night and i enjoy my day if i Get Up and i say screw it i'm gonna go back to bed it's probably like the first day it's maybe like like 80 chance i'll still have a good day by the third day, fourth day we're down like 20-10% chance and I'm in a bad place again I'm really dark place again after a couple days and it could be that first day so I have to really be serious about this stuff and I am seeing how I have to be more serious about it as I get older with this stuff because the alcoholism grows, and it grows, and it finds new ways of telling me what it's always told me. It will tell me, oh, well, if you do this spiritual thing, you might not need to do all this stuff anymore. Because the alcoholics learns everything I learn, it will use the program, it will used everything I've ever learned that's good against me. and my sponsor says that every idea up to right now is an old idea and that's really a powerful thing to think about so everything that I know up to now is an odd idea and what it does is if I live by that I'm open right now to anything new that could come up you know and that's a beautiful beautiful place to live in and you know AA primetime this stuff is powerful and it's not for people that it's for the sick ones it's really sick ones and I'm one of them so thanks for letting me share so we are observing the seventh tradition now Hi, I'm here with Bill and Trevor for Wendy. We're in Pascavacchia. This meeting is very important to maintain peace. If you can, be as good as possible. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you too. Okay. You just want to try it in, John? Oh, the traditions. Would somebody like to read the 12 traditions? Come on up, please. Thank you. Hi, I'm Mac and I'm an alcoholic. 12 traditions. One, our common welfare should come first. Personal recovery depends upon AA unity. Two, for our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority a loving God as he may express himself and our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants. They do not govern. Three, the only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking. Four, each group should be autonomous, except in matters affecting other groups or AA as a whole. Five, each Group has but one primary purpose, to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers. Six, an AA Group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the AA name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and prestige divert us from our primary purpose. Seven, every AA group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions. Eight, Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever non-professional, but our service centers may employ special workers. Nine, AA as such ought never be organized, but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve. 10. Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues, hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy 11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion We need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films 12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions ever reminding us to place principles before personalities All right. So we're open for sharing questions and answers. Who wants to start? Kick us off. Please come up from the podium. Oh, man. Yes. Yes. Welcome. Thank you. All right, my name is Chris. and I am an alcoholic. I feel important. It's like a roller coaster so far in my sobriety, even though I'm still like a baby. And I'll go for the cheap pop. I have 104 days clean or sober. Yeah, I went to rehab December 30th, 2012, completely different person like um I was totally on self-will against everything and like he said about ego my ego was huge I didn't like the counselors over at the rehab would talk about the steps and I would just try to argue with them every step of the way and I was so resistant and I had such a bad time it was so awful and then I slowly started to like as I went through the steps And once I got to step three, I was like, oh, there's no way I could turn my will to a higher power. Like, I control everything about me. It was so hard to accept that. And then once I did, it was like whoa. I don't have to worry about really anything I don' t have any control over. It's just like a weight lifted. My ego slowly started to shrink and I started, you know, I became the guy that was all about the program and rehab. And then when I got out of PRC and went to sober living, my ego was inflated because everyone thought I was like Mr. Recovery, sobriety, my ego became big and I kind of took my will back from God. And it only took a week before I was ready to drink or use. And it was good that I figured it out because now I gave it back. I gave my willback And, well, I don't know if I've totally given it all back. But it's hard. But I'm trying. Read 8687, morning, night, page 417, acceptance. That helps me. And that is all for me. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yes, please. Hi, I'm Marsha. I'm an alcoholic. This is only my second time coming to this prime time. And Matthew, thank you so much. My basic MO all my life is I'm irritable, restless and discontent. And that's the story of my life. My second, this is my second term around and I'm a little over 18 years. And I really wish that I had known about prime time in my earlier sobriety. I don't know where I've been, you know, Moorpark, you now, women's meeting, but I've never heard about prime times until about four weeks ago. So I just love it. I love that you're into yoga. I'm actually a Buddhist, and so ever since I came here, every day I'm taking the first three steps and I'm returning over my life, and I'M doing it twice a day with my spiritual practice. and it's really helping me to feel less irritable, less restless, and less discontent. And that stems from a thousand forms of fear. And I'm just really grateful to be here. Thank you so much. R.I.D. Restless, Irritable, Discontent Woke up in the morning, went to a meeting Great sharing, all good Left the meeting restless, irritable, discontent Went to the gym, pumped weights Ran five miles Great Left the gym Restless Irritable Discontent Had a great breakfast With my One of my kids Restless Irritible Discontente Went to a basketball game They won Restless Irritble Discontented So then I go to a spa You know I had some time You know Got some time And I Get in the hot water Get in The freezing cold water Get in The sauna Get in And then a million different times, all great and good. I'm laying in a nice table going, this is like the Bahamas. I could die here. It's like peaceful and asleep. This is like my grandfather died, not screaming and freaking out like his passengers. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you get that later. But restless, irritable, discontent. Can you explain, you know, help how you would handle that? as an alcoholic I tend to see everything in black and white if I spend a bit of my day uncomfortable my whole day was uncomfortable that's how I am you know on the negative skew it's never like I have a good moment and then my whole day was great. It's always, you know, something bad happens in the day for a couple minutes and like it's, my whole days is bad if I recount my day. One of my sponsors was talking a couple weeks ago about going to, he was doing a meditation thing in the morning and went and he said the same things. Like I went to this meditation group and I came out and like five minutes later or ten minutes later I was, you know, restless, irritable and discontent. But I was like, look, wait a minute. First of all, there were 10 minutes that the day before you didn't have. So that's something. This is a building process for me. It is a hard process. It's not easy. And, you Know, it steps forward, steps back, you Now. And it all comes down to right here, right now for me. Can I be present? Can I hear what's being said? Can I breathe in and see that I'm breathing? Can I really hear instead of talking to myself about what's being said. And for me, I get better and better and better at it. But there are some days that suck. And that's just, to me, I found that. And it's because in those moments, I'm unwilling to go back and say, okay, I'm an alcoholic with alcoholism. And what that means is that I have an unsatisfiable mind. And that no matter what my mind touches, it races with it. And I cannot get away from it. You know, and it's about really accepting that that's who I am. You know? That's who i am. That's the guy that i am You know a lot of people in here would say Will say Well ask God You know God can you help me see that that is who i'm today Can you help be okay with the fact That i'm an alcoholic Can you show me from that A new experience Is there something i'm not seeing You know But i can't do that tomorrow I can't do that in the morning or tonight when I get home before bed. I've got to start it right now because those moments get bigger, right? They get longer and I have more of them through my days. But I've Got to Start Somewhere and the only place for me to start is right now. And I'll tell you what, like I'm not perfect with this and nobody that I know here is perfect with This. But the guys and the men and women that do this, I see them. They get more and more peace through the years. And that's what I want, you know? And that'S what I'm getting from this. So, thanks. Mac, alcoholic. You know, wow. I'm on my second sobriety as well. And years ago, I went to primetime almost exclusively. And then I completely forgot about it. I mean, like, hello. And my brother Jeffrey came into town and he was like, yeah, remember when we used to go to Casey's meeting all the time? Yeah, you're coming to primetime with me. And I love it. And it's so great to be in a meeting like this. And for me, you know, speaking about this driving over here, I was thinking, you know, the human condition is restless, irritable, and discontent. Yet it is exacerbated by alcoholism. So I take the alcohol out, right? I have nothing that's medicating my self-talking mind, my mind that just tells me either I'm fantastic or I'm a piece of, you know, what, or, you You know, nobody's doing anything fast enough for me. I'm smarter than everybody. I mean, I don't need you to help me because if I do it myself, I'll get it done and it will be done properly and then there's nothing to worry about. Well, that's my alcoholism talking to me and making me an island, you know, isolating me. And so what I have been doing almost exclusively for a fair amount of time now is when those moments come up, and they do come up a lot, is I'm living in step three. You know, I'm like, God, please, you know, help me to not feel this way. Help me to nicht think these thoughts. And believe it or not, I mean, it actually, and then ten minutes later, I'll go, oh, well, gosh, I am not experiencing that anymore. And like you were saying, I means, it's a process, and you get longer moments of peace as more time goes by. but you know because I was always a person who would use my alcoholism as an excuse for my behavior well you know I'm sorry I'm an alcoholic you know well that's just not good enough I want to live um a beautiful peaceful life and be of service to other people and and also to be comfortable in my life you know as I built it but if I carry around old Mac with all Macs old ideas, then I'm doing a disservice to this beautiful life that God has given me. The gift of recovery. Not just sobriety, but recovery. You know, I can put down the drink and, you know,I'm sober. But am I in recovery? And so I really have to be so incredibly aware of my behavior and what I think when I'm looking at you or what I'm thinking when I'M driving or someone texts me and I'm doing my hair in my bathroom or I'm actually talking out loud to a person who isn't there saying, my God, are you an idiot or what? I mean, isn't it clear what the point is here? And then I go, oh God, please. Please let me stop talking to someone who isn'T here. And it works. Thank you. I'm Daniel, I'm an alcoholic and happy birthday John love you very much and thanks Chief for speaking tonight it was a really good pee although I was having trouble staying present, I was Having Trouble Listening tonight and normally that happens when I'm obsessing about stuff and my obsessive brain actually causes me a lot of pain and the past couple of days I've been in the uh the obsessive brain mode and um I um it's good to be able to come up here and share about that you know because you know there's times where I feel really connected and really present and then there's time where I listen to the uh The Lying Machine you know and uh I go with it and I guess I'm like it's I want to ask you a question but like I have to say that like I I don't ask questions that much at meetings because, like, I'm sort of, like afraid sometimes to hear the answer because it attacks my ego and my alcoholism, you know and I feel like, well you know, there's something wrong with me or something you know and there is Oh boy I was talking to Astrid before the meeting and I was just a bit distant And, you know, she was asking me what was going on and, you know, I'm sort of out to lunch a bit right now. But, you know, I've been, you know... I know this isn't... Or whatever. Like, I've got great friends and I'm really happy to have people like you in my life, Chief. You know? And I've got great, great people in my life. And I just... I want to know, again, and I am sure you've already talked about this tonight, but, like, when my mind does have a hold of me and I've gone with it and I've heard the analogy of having a piece of amber land on your shirt and brushing it off quickly but in the cases where I let the amber burn and sort of set me on fire how do I get back to that peaceful place? How do I go back to the surrendered place again? So I really want my mind to not have control over me right now and I really wanna be present but I'm finding it really tough. Yeah, that's a good question. That's the question. I mean, it's, you know, there are times when I can't get something out of my head because it needs to be dealt with, right? I mean, there is a concept in here of first things first. And there are first things... If I have things outstanding that I haven't done, they unconsciously and consciously could be driving me and making me really irritated. But as an alcoholic, I will not do them. I just don't want to do them and it could be paying a bill that I have plenty of money to pay. It could be, you know, doing some laundry that I need to do or it could be having a discussion with somebody about something that I need to have with them that I'm afraid that they'll judge me if I talk to them about it. I don't know what it is for you. That may be something. I know for me that usually what happens that's great for me is if I sit quietly. it says in the book and I always quote it in the third step you know in all times of emotional disturbance you know does anybody have that I want to read that I can pause you know ask for quiet so pause so stop it tells me exactly what to do right in all kinds of emotional disturbance pause so what does that mean I pause I stop I sit ask for quiet ask for quiet So it's almost telling me to do a little meditation. Get quiet and really see what is going on. Because I can be up here and like, oh, I'm talking to myself about this and that. But really getting present for what's going on, it's really a step one thing, right? And in the stillness, say the serenity prayer. And I think grant me the serENITY to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things that I can and the wisdom to know the difference. And there are certain things that I do that place me in a position to be hurt. And God isn't going to like render me white as snow and say, oh, you know, you're praying to me to get rid of this pain. So I'm just going to do that, even though you put yourself in this position by your actions. I mean, I have to pay somewhat of a price for my actions or else I won't change. um but the simple thing is to do what it says in the book you know is to get quiet and really see what am i doing what am I up to right now what's going on inside my mind and when I can see that and I ask God and I say the serenity prayer wow clearly I start to have more clarity as to what's really going on so i don't know if that helps but you know i i can't just i can'T JUST SAY GOD TAKE THIS AWAY TAKE THIS AWay TAKE This Away There'S No Awareness There'S Sometimes There Isn'T Any Awareness In That You Know I I Gotta Know What It Is It'S Going On Because If God God Isn'T Just Gonna Like That God Doesn'T Let Me Get Away With Murder You Know It'S Not Like You Can Kill Somebody And Then God I Feel So Bad For Killing That Person And It'S So Bad Can You Take That away from you that doesn't work right um so I don't know I don' know if that helps that's what works for me. Hi I'm Astrid and I'm an alcoholic thanks so much for your share Matthew and happy birthday john i love you so much so so much and daniel i um i get it and uh like the whole name of the game for me is how can i have more peace and less self and alcoholism and the ego operate the same in everyone but we all have an infinite god so the application can be infinite for people Some people get it through running or meditating, prayer, even church, listening to a CD, whatever it is. But I know for me, I have to have a portable God that I can take everywhere I go. And I need to stay in an aware state of consciousness where I'm really awake to every single thought that comes from the subconscious mind up to the conscious mind. Like I start to know thyself inside. and I can see what kind of dialogue is bigger bait than others. And, you know, I sort of look at it like I got six hamster cages in one wheel, which hamster's going to get out and up onto the wheel and screw up my day. And the minute I have a thought come from the subconscious mind up to the conscious mind, the hamster got out and he's starting to tell me that my ass is fat, my wallet's wrong, I'm not being treated right. And if I let that hamster go for even two minutes, game over. That's it. That's all it takes for the obsession of the mind to start going. So the name of the game is how do I keep the hamster in the cage? And the hamsters always throwing thoughts up and they're surfing the waves of my brain. But I ask God to be with me and to help me and protect me from my mind and these thoughts. And I stay in a state of awareness. And when I get that grace and that peaceful place, that is the most valuable thing I have. I don't have anything more valuable in my life than that. And I babysit that. I'll leave. I'll hang up a phone call. I'll walk out of a situation. I'll do whatever it takes to babysit that because it's so precious to me. And I have to see where I'm still participating in defects and see where i'm still participating in things that are really, really hurting me and see how badly I'm really willing to hold on to them or let them go because God's not going to do anything for me that I'm not going to let him do. And if I still want to eat sugar and if I still don't want to exercise and if i still want to hate on people and ifI still don' t want to get up on time and suit up and show up well then I'm going to get what I always get and there's a bunch of hamsters for each one of those defects lined up and ready to get out of the cage and spin out. So my best thing that I can possibly do is ask God to help me live by spiritual principles, and that means I don't lie, cheat, and steal. I do suit up and show up. I am responsible for my life today. I try very hard not to hate when I'm disturbed. I don' t like everybody, but I do love them. Today, I can love people, but from a distance, some of them, people are crazy. They drive me nuts. I mean, really, people, people or hell, especially people in alcoholist anonymous. The world is sick and full of mental illness, and it's a painful place to live sometimes and i need protection from that i don't let everybody into my stratosphere in my space i really protect myself spiritually and like larry brister said he goes you know there are a lot of people out there that can be around my life but not everybody can be in my life and i don t let all of that stuff in so close i protect myself that stupid thing staying in your hula hoop you know that s not so dumb after all you know i like those things that my my space around me and my spiritual environment stays as clean as possible because it's so valuable to me. Don't throw this thing away. Don't draw this away. This is the best news in town. It's worth more than all the gold in the whole world. And when I'm in that treated place, the third dimension just shifts and changes in the most miraculous way. Jobs come my way, even parking spaces. I really do feel a flow of the fourth dimension. Things start to happen when I stay in that place. but man I take the bait back and my mind's going and all of a sudden I don't know I'm like bumping into things I spill my coffee you know I can't deal with phone calls I'm irritated and aggravated touch one negativity touch it all touch one God touch it all there is no middle of the road with untreated alcoholism thanks for letting me share My name is Radio Bob. You guys know I'm an alcoholic. Astrid, thank you so much, honey, for your courage and your perseverance in bringing this to the forefront. And I'd like to thank our speaker. You're absolutely wonderful. This is what I come here for. And happy barley, Mr. Sarli, and everybody that shared this evening. I would like to demonstrate a little alcoholism And I'd like to illustrate a little recovery It helps reaffirm to myself that I know the difference And that I'm in application And I've got to tell you guys 20-something months in this program What I believe it was you this evening, John You're in your new sobriety I'm a 25 year dinosaur and I'm in my new sobriety and it's all pithy and frothy and I am splashing on the seashore and on any given day I feel like a 7 year old sometimes I'll be on the phone or in the car with people and I shout out I'm 7 because I'm no longer trapped in the horrific mental state of untreated alcoholism of anger Of insecurity The hamsters are no longer driving my Wheels I never in 57 years Thought that I would get out of the Hamster cage And you guys know me That macho shit Is a bunch of crap And I got a PhD In abnormal psychology And I've been on television shows And rock and roll tours And you know what, I went to sleep feeling so horrible And so alone I wanted to kill myself And I used to be a great danger To individuals around me And now, I'm telling you guys I am just the most helpful Little helper bunny It's amazing So, I am going to demonstrate some alcoholism to you Whether you use an alarm clock Or you roll out like me You get up in the morning and here it goes Should I get up? Should I not get up Should I Get Dressed? Should i not get dressed The shoes or the boots Do I wash my face and hair before I start Should I just start? Ooh, Dottie wants to get fed. Ignore her as long as possible. Oh, there's the mailman. And it just starts. And I look at it now. I'm treated. I repeat to myself, I am so with God. I'm so different. I'm still treated. And trust you guys, these are brand new thoughts that I just made up that I copied from you guys over the course of the last 20-something months because prime time And for some inexplicable reason, seems to be a silent dog whistle. Because I never heard nothing in two plus decades. And I've been in this room for 20 years. And they never told me anything at Radford. And as an original member of the old Radford group, I watched great people, fun people, good people, moms and dads, and people with lives and kids and stuff get worse. and get angrier, and get deeper into their alcoholism, and not be able to shovel their way out. And I watched some good people become the cranky, angriest, rottenest curmudgeons. And when I realized at 20 plus years that I was becoming that, I didn't admire myself anymore. I didn' t want to be like that. I wanted to be all pithy, frothy, sunlight of the spirit with God, being able to zip into a step or duck out of a thought. So to me, I'm going to testify, I view these as merely thoughts. All of you know that I'm suffering from a grave mental condition, a grave medical condition. I have a rectal cranial inversion. And I'm trying to yank that thing out all day. But if I petition God once, or if I have one good thought for my fellow man, or I extend a toy to a child, or I'll give you an example traffic, traffic in the city guy wanders over into my and I look over you mother father instead I look over at the individual and say your mother loves you this is a great try and I have to disconnect me from me 19 times an hour because I have the drive force of a gladiator I'm like ding dang mental case there are 5 personalities in here fighting for the steering wheel but I run with a crew a heavy-duty fellas that say hey radio you have no opinions on anything outside this car really i have opinions on how they're running the space program i'm alcoholic and it's no longer an excuse and i can't live my life that way i want to be treated every day every minute with every individual at every human um exchange that i encounter now it's a tall order and they told me that I have to completely rebuild my character. I mean, can you imagine 57 years working to build this? And I've got to chuck it out the window and be the new guy. And he's humble, and he's quiet, and he is a good listener and people actually say, Radio, you know what? We really like you when you're like this, dude. What did you do with the old guy? Thank you. God bless you. Hi, I'm Justine, and I'm an alcoholic. Congratulations, John, and thank you so much. I really related to your share today, and today was such a perfect message for me. It's really restless, irritable, discontent today. I've heard that quite a few times in this meeting because I didn't do much. And I don't like to be inactive. I like to go going, going, so I don' t hear my head. So I'm scared right now. I don''t really know why I'm scared. I guess that's just the nature of the disease and the fact that I'm standing in front of 100 people. I have 14 days tomorrow, and I'm really proud of myself. I'm not so much struggling with the fact that I want to be sober because I really do want to be sober and I really want to work this program it's more like figuring out how to it's such a new endeavor and like figuring OUT HOW TO FEEL um not because I didn't have feelings before but I didn t feel anything but unhappy and so feeling happy and feeling um like proud of myself or accomplished or motivated or anything other than miserable is um uncomfortably new I told that to my sponsor last night and she just laughed and said I like the way you worded that and um and I just like I'm kind of just like rolling with the punches going with the flow because I don't really know what I'm doing I just feel so like lost but lost in a good way um and I've been directed now by a couple people um they're still struggling with I've noticed this every time I've gotten sober that um you get sober from one thing and all the things that um that are underlying um all the other issues you struggle with rear their heads um and i've struggled with self-harm for a lot of years now and uh and i'm never really dealt with that and um I've been directed to share in a meeting I'm comfortable with and I'm very comfortable in this room um and I love this meeting so much and I love how thoroughly we discuss awareness because that is the thing that is most important to me in my life. Um I've been directed to ask for help um which I'm glad I get to do in sobriety even though it's something I'm scared of doing and ask if anybody has time from harming themselves, knows a little bit about what it's like to not do that and ways around it. I would appreciate it if you would talk to me after the meeting. Thank you for letting me share. I'm Heather of Alcoholism. Thank you, Justine. That was really personal, and I appreciate you opening up like that. We all self-harm to some degree in here. I mean, but hopefully someone does come talk to you. Talking about step three, I've realized that it bugs me. It says made a decision to turn our will, and I always wonder why it doesn't say, like, hand my will over. and it's because I loan my will to God and then I borrow his will for me and this is what I do all the time it's just back and forth and my sponsor always poses the question to me if someone comes up to you Heather and says I want to stop drinking I wantto stop drinking what do I do his instruction I mean his response is keep drinking you know until you're entirely ready to stop and the same goes, the primetime message here is about thinking. I want to stop thinking this way. I want you to stop doing that. I want us to stop speaking this way and we'll indulge just a little bit more until you're entirely ready to really surrender and I've heard people talk about pulling the car over and praying, you know, walking out of the office and surrendering and I always would think I would never pull the car over and just pray for some serenity until I was crazy enough to do it. And I think, you know, that's why it says we're entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. Once I've confronted who I am and I'm so sick of hearing my own voice or hearing my tone of voice change or just looking at all the wake I leave behind, I have nothing else to be but humble in step seven. After I'm entirely ready, I'm completely so disgusted with myself that I can only humbly ask for help. Because I can't appreciate anything about my collective defectedness, if that makes any sense. So, you know, it's a practice. I give it, you Know, I turn the will over and I take it back and I'm thinking about it right now like I turned my will and my life into the direction of the care of God. and you know because at some point my job here is to learn to do this better to help other people learn to doing this and it's not a linear path but the practice of getting up and falling down and experimenting with my thoughts and realizing that they're not ones to pursue that's the only way I learned and I wish I could just hear you guys talk about it and believe it But I'm, you know, defiant and stubborn. And I have to make sure that what you're saying about you is right for me. And, you Know, I have the experience that for myself. Thank you. I was just moved to speak. guy from what the young lady was talking about, having suicidal thoughts. And I think that alcoholics and addicts, we all have had experience like that. But I had to learn something, and I'm still learning. I think you said something about love tonight. It's hard to learn how to love anything or anybody when you don't know how to love yourself. Except if you love something you take care of it if you had a child and you love your child you want to make sure your child is taken care of and i didn't know how to do that for me because i never experienced real love from my father from my mother i lost my mother at 36 my dad was gone at five and i had to learn how to love real peculiar i had learned different ways of loving and i learned different ways of loving out in the streets, and I got with a lot of my buddies, and they would have their fathers and mothers, and so I had to do a lot work. Thank God for the steps because the third step is preparing for me to really take a look at myself and see why I have feelings of rejection and abandonment issues in my life. Where did it come from? How did he get started? I was at a book study, a very powerful book study at Simple Corner. And I would recommend it to anybody. It's on Saturdays at 1130. We take the book 12-12 and we study paragraph by paragraph. Some of my buddies are here. And that's why I'm here tonight because they said it was coming to prime time. And I said, man, prime time is awesome. It's very awesome. And so that's Why I'm Here. But I just wanted to tell the young lady and myself that, you know, God is teaching me how to love. When I realized that he spared me from so many forms of destruction, because the book says we have been spared from a life of self-destruction. And I kept saying it to myself over and over when I read that in the 12 and 12, That God spared me From me And when I really value that And understand that I learn what real love is And then I learn how to Try to give that to some other person Sometimes I don't want to give it Because I suffer from character defects Called the seven deadly sins And that's what we study today Because they all come under that heading You know Either I'm getting prideful today. Am I getting cocky with somebody? Am I Getting Envy or Jealous of Anybody? Am I mad because they got it good and I don't? You know. Am I still lusting a lot? Okay. So what I've learned is that, you know, lusting. I am with the lust thing. Is that getting in my way from making any progress? No, I'll say this. Lust looks to get and love looks to give. Thank you. Hi, everybody.