Steps 8 and 9 – Step-Tember to Remember Workshop – Part 4 of 7 – 2025 – Cleo D.

Hi, I'm Jackie. I'm an alcoholic. Reminding ourselves that we have decided to go to any lengths to find a spiritual experience, we ask that we be given strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal consequences may be. We may lose our position or reputation or face jail, but we are willing. We have to be. We must not shrink at anything. Alcoholics Anonymous, page 79. And now please help me welcome the amazing Cleo D. from Baltimore. Hi guys, I'm Cleo. I'm an alcoholic. I too have to arrange everything. That's all. Okay, hi. Yeah, I'm Cleo. I'm an alcoholic. Hi, everyone. Really good to be here. Thanks for having me. Thanks to everyone who was a part of putting this thing together. And thanks to all of you for being here. Thanks to everybody who spoke before. Thanks to everyone who spoke before me. It's been a truly incredible day. I really don't feel like I need to be up here. I feel like we've gotten, yeah, just four incredible talks with people that I admire, some of my favorite speakers to listen to. And I'm really just humbled and honored to be a part of this and feel somewhat inadequate. And you know, as I sat there and listened, like, particularly to the other two women that spoke today, listening to Nicoletta and to Julie, it's like, just the, how much I am the same, you know, how much we are all the same, you know, and like the need for identification and with identification. With the sameness of our problem, the way we can trust someone who can explain what we suffer from so well. I can trust that person to take me to a solution to that problem. You know, and listening to Nicoletta and Julie talk, you know, like, I, too, have a degree in philosophy. You know? And, like, all three of your female speakers have a college degree in philosophy, you know. That is how smart we are, you know. And just, like, and how, you know, how much I trusted my mind, you know, as the basis for my life. And, like, thank God we're all brought together here, like, where we have a common problem and a common solution. Because, like, I can't imagine if the three of us were hanging out together out there just, like, all blowing coke and discussing philosophy for, you know. Like, they would have all just died, you know. Because we would all just be the same and, like, actually normalize what we're doing, you know. Like, the couple people that I did run with before I got here that ended up here, like, we were so bad for each other. Like, I've made amends to both of those women. And one of them, like, so I have a hereditary illness that I have to, at that time I had to start IVs on myself to give myself medication. And she was a heroin addict. So she would steal my needles to shoot up dope. And, like, and then we would. And I was drinking alcoholically and blowing coke to manage my drinking, just like Nicoletta. Because, you know, it's a lot easier to not pass out when you also add cocaine to the mixture. And then we would, she would blindfold me. And I would drive. I'd get behind the wheel of my car and drive with her giving directions from the passenger seat of, like, speed up, slow down, turn left, turn right. And, like, that was just. . . . That was just our idea of a good time. You know, like, we, like, stole from each other. Like, we stole from each other's parents. Like, it was just a complete disaster. You know, and it was very similar with the other woman who also ended up here that, like, I made amends to. Like, we, you know, we, like, started dealing drugs together. And, like, that didn't work. And then we were, like, in competition with each other. And our friendship blew up. And, like, we were, like, in competition with each other. And, yeah, so that's what it goes like when I, like, hang out with people that have the same thing that I have. But it's so important that here. . . That, like, that's. . . That we're talking about that. That I know that, like, you guys have the same thing that I have. Not just with the drinking, but, like, more importantly, with the condition of self that I exist with. Right? And, like, that's what's been talked about so beautifully today. like each speaker's personal language, you know? Um, and I've connected with all of it and like, you know, for me, it is exactly the same, you know? And it's like, and I, I get the, I have the job of talking about steps eight and nine, um, you know, and I love steps eight and nine. Um, they have changed my life. They have changed my marriage. They have changed the very fabric of my existence and the quality of my sobriety. And like, they're like where I have found a whole different level of freedom than I ever even came close to around here without them. And that's like, and, and I came like, and I got far without doing them. Like I had a really powerful experience here without making most of my amends too. Um, you Um, which was not, you know, I say this time, cause every other time here, you know, like I came in and I didn't have, I didn't have an experiential understanding. I didn't have a surrender to that first step. I didn't really think I was powerless. And so I, wasn't really willing to seek power. And what that looks like for me is, like, I do, I get a sponsor, because you guys are all saying to get a sponsor. And, you know, like, I'm really good at, like, BSing my way through life. And, like, that's how I got a college degree. And, you know, I think that, like, if I get a sponsor and I have a highlighted book and I write some things on a page, right? Like, I think it was Chris was talking about, like, the difference between, like, being, like, thorough and honest. Like, I have written inventory without, like, actually taking inventory. Like, because I'm just putting stuff on a page to be, like, look, I did the thing, right? And that's how I went about Alcoholics Anonymous my first four years around here. It was like I'd come in, I wanted you guys to like me, I wanted you to accept me, just like. I wanted to do it. I wanted to do it. I wanted to do it. And, like, I just got a sponsor. And I pretended to work the steps. And somewhere, like, either partway through the fourth step, or, like, having written some BS fourth step, like, my alcoholism would convince me that my sponsor wasn't the perfect sponsor to hear all of my stuff. And so that I needed to switch sponsors, right? And I tell you, my alcoholism, like, I can only see this in hindsight. Like, going through it, it felt very, very real. Like, I felt like I believed that I was switching sponsors to have a better, deeper experience, right? Like, that I needed to do it perfectly, which, like Chris also said, is, like, actually impossible. I don't need to, it's never perfect and it's never done. And like, this time, like, you know, the first time through was so imperfect and so far from done and it didn't matter because I was all in and there was nothing left. But, like, so those first however many years, you know, I never even, like, made it up to eight and nine and I just, I couldn't stay. And it took all of that time for me to come to see, you know, my real issue, which is the way that I experience sobriety. You know, and coming face to face with that, with self, with selfishness, with the way that I move through the world without alcohol in my system. And I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, you know, with all of that stuff I was like, okay, but how do you deal with that. This is how I experience that weight loss approach and the lack of love, and all these inconvenience. Do you live, yeah, what did you experience at which point like, wow, like, is there something that you can contribute to, like, why was all of that like, is there some venturing out of the nurse or provocation in the ER, poor thing, how would you deal with that, like, because I was like, I can deal with it. Oh, it's making me feel better. Oh, I was like, yeah, but you know, my real meetup, I have to go learn. When I was 19, I actually, I didn't really know what it was what I spent my 10 own most people that I start working with are all gung-ho at the beginning and most of us don't continue so she's like yeah sure whatever like she had no idea like that I meant business and she'd give me something to do and it was done within two hours and I was calling her back and I was like what's next you know um and we got up to eight and nine and like I I followed the instructions that I was given which was to make this list and like I made a couple amends like to my parents um and like to my boyfriend and then I made an amends to my ex-boyfriend when my boyfriend broke up with me that was not that was not direction from my sponsor but I took that upon myself um and it was definitely like too soon and for the wrong reasons to do that and we like narrowly evaded a big problem because when I asked him what's next I said I was like I don't know what to do but I'm gonna do this and I didn't what I could do to make it right. He told me I could have sex with him. Luckily I didn't have sex with him, but like that's how that went. And you know, and so, but we got to, like I'm a thief, like I'm a shoplifter. I stole from my parents, I stole from my friends, I stole from the places I work. I like am not just like a petty shoplifter, like steal some mascara. Like I made amends to Nordstrom for stealing $31,000 worth of merchandise over a period of three years, you know? And my sponsor says, like the way that you're gonna make amends for this is you're not gonna steal anymore. We got to my con, like all of the people that show up in my amends list from my conduct inventory, all of the people I've cheated on, used, you know, walked all over, discarded, treated as disposable and dispensable. And she says, you know, I'm not gonna go see them because, you know, we don't see people of the opposite sex. And that's great, right? Like I have less than a year sober, that's wonderful. Like I don't want to make those amends, so that's really great. The only problem is neither of those instructions have any basis in our basic texts and the program of recovery that's outlined in this book. And at the same time that I was going through kind of a western club? same time that I was going through the step, and this is not, like, this is how she was sponsored, like, all we have is how we're taken through the book, like, so she was taking me through the way that she had been taken through, which, like, I learned once I got started trying to take people through and hadn't made amends myself, it's kind of like, just, you know, flash some lights, mirrors, you know, make a list, okay, let's jump to 10, you know, because I can't talk to you about an experience that I haven't had, I can't walk you through amends I haven't made, you know, and that's, like, what she did, and, like, to no fault of hers, but, like, at the same time, thank God, I'm in a big book study where we're going through the big book line by line, and we're working the steps, like, as we go through, and we, like, break off and read inventory to one person, and, like, we line out amends and talk about it with someone, so, like, what's being talked about in this work shop is completely at odds with what I'm being told by my sponsor, and the reality is, it's, like, for me, it's really important today that, like, I'm not here to tell, I'm just here to share my experience, right, and, like, I, like, I'm not here to say that anybody's sponsor is wrong, or anybody's sponsor is right, or this way is wrong, or this way is right, like, what was wrong for me was that it didn't sit right in my heart that I just didn't have to make amends to huge, huge swaths of people that were the two largest areas of harm in my life, that I just don't make amends to all of the people that I used for sex and was in relationships with, even though that's the most problematic area of my life and most of our lives, and is the thing that we go out over and over again, and that if we don't go out, we're not going to be able to do anything. So, like, over and over again, we stay miserable in these rooms around over and over again, why am I, how am I going to, how am I going to not make amends to those people, you know, and, like, what happened for me, thank God, you know, it's, like, with me, it's, like, this, so much of what happens around here, the becoming willing, right, like, which in step eight, we're talking about becoming willing to make amends to them all, but my willingness about, around so many of these actions, like, originates out of my own discomfort in not taking those actions, you know, and so, like, what happened for me is, is for the first few years of my sobriety, I didn't make those amends, and I continued to have problems in relationships, I continued to not be able to make a living, I was not self-supporting, you know, I was not self-supporting, I was not self-supporting, I was not self-supporting, the first six years of my sobriety, I could not support myself, because I tried to wait until I had enough money coming in that I could go make, start making my financial amends when it made sense to my rational mind, you know, when I finally was in enough pain around not being able to get anything other than an entry-level position with a college degree, like, I became willing to make financial amends. And I had to make really humbling financial amends, I stole thousands of dollars from you, and I can only afford to pay back 25, because I didn't just steal from you, but I stole from all these other people, and I'm going to start paying back all these people $25 a month, you know, and, like, from that day, when I started doing that, until this, which is, like, four years later, like, I have the job of my dreams that I didn't even know existed. Making more money than, like, making more than twice as much money as I made when I was hired, which is, like, more money than I ever thought I would make, you know, more money than I need, for sure, certainly not, I still want more, don't get me wrong, you know. It's still not quite enough, you know, that's one of my sponsor's favorite lines, you know, like, how much is enough? Just a little bit more than I have, you know, like, no matter how much it is. So, but what happens for me is, you know, I'm in a relationship with my now husband, who you get to hear next, and it keeps falling apart, and he keeps leaving, even though he doesn't want to, and he keeps breaking my heart, and I'm not showing up, you know, authentically, and I'm trying to control him, and I'm letting everything else go. I'm trying to, you know, fall away in lieu of, you know, trying to, trying to hold on to him, and anyways, he comes back to the table, ready to have a new experience, and his sponsor suggests to him, like, is it possible that you can't stay in this relationship because you haven't cleaned up the wreckage of your past relationships? You know, that you can't stop hurting this woman and disrespecting this woman because you haven't cleaned up. You know, and, like, I don't think it's a coincidence, you know. It's, I don't particularly like the task that I have been assigned of talking about this part of our experience. Jack and I have talked about this. It's like, but amends to the opposite sex have been such a pivotal changing point and turning point in our life that, like, I can't not talk about it. And when I was taking some time with God last night and this morning, it's like, that's where I kept being turned to to look at, you know, and it's like, and it's my job now to listen to those intuitive pulls, even if I don't like the task. Even if I think, you know, not a lot of you are not going to like me after hearing what I have to say. But, like, what I was pulled to, and Chris set it up so perfectly, is the... The connection between our conduct inventory and, you know, amends to people, past relationships and past sexual relations and stuff, you know. It's like, we have three inventories. And from our inventories, we take everyone in our inventory and we make our amends list. Does it make any sense, then, that one huge section of inventory, we would just cross out that whole section of our amends list? Like, we literally... We literally have three inventories, and our conduct is so problematic that we have a whole inventory for it. And as we're writing that inventory, you know, it says some stuff in here. It says, in this way, we tried to shape a sane and sound ideal for our future sex life. Whatever our ideal turns out to be, we must be willing to grow toward it. We must be willing to make amends where we have done harm, provided that we do not bring about... Still more in so doing. In other words, we treat sex as we would any other problem. Like, there's very clear language. It doesn't warn us in resentment inventory, you have to make amends here. But, like, it tells us multiple times as we're looking at conduct inventory, you know, we're going to need to make amends here. You know, and it's like... And for me, it's like, what happened was... Watch this man not be able to show up for me. And I loved him, but he kept leaving, and he kept hurting me. And the way he treated me was embarrassing to me in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. And he, you know, had a surrender in sobriety and started going back through the steps with a sponsor that he had left years prior. Because that sponsor had tried to help him look at these areas of his life, and he wasn't ready to look at them. And, you know, he started making amends to people that he had used for sex and validation. And he had had means, and so those people were spread across the country. And he was traveling around the country to make a lot of those amends. And as this was happening, like, he was coming back a different person. And changing right before my eyes. And, like, the fabric of our relationship was... Was changing. And the way that he was treating me was changing. And the way that he was treating other women in the world was changing. And the way that he was interacting with other men in the world, especially as it relates to how they talk about other women, was changing. He wasn't going on the trips anymore. Like, he had always gone on the trips. He had told me about them, where his friends had cheated on their girlfriends and wives with strippers and prostitutes. Like, he had gone on the... He hadn't been a part of those trips. He hadn't been a part of that, necessarily. But he had gone on those trips. Like, he wasn't doing that stuff anymore. And what happened is, like, I started to see, like, I wonder how much I'm missing. If I'm pretty much okay at four years sober without having made any real hard amends... Like, I've only really made my amends to, like, the relationships that directly impact me. Just like... Just like everything else in my life. I've made the most selfish amends in the world. Like, well, I don't see that person anymore, so I probably don't have to make amends to me because it's not going to affect me. Like, never mind the people that are, like... Never mind the men I went and faced that literally have been in trauma therapy for years because of what I did to them. You know? That have never been able to show up in relationships the same because of how I treated them. That deserved the conversation that I ended up having with them. And so I see this happening and, you know, and it's like... And I don't have the guidance to make those amends. And actually... So I start coming to stuff like this with Jack and I start hearing people talk about an experience that I haven't, like, fully had. And a lot of them were men, which is why, like, powerful women doing this thing is, like, so special. And I asked Jack, I was like... Can you find me a woman that's going to... Sponsor me in this way? You know? And Jack sent out a text message to a bunch of guys. One of them was Chris. And Chris connected me with a woman that was not in the same state as me. And that I'd never met before. And her only availability was at 5 a.m. And... I mean, sorry, at 6 a.m. But she was in a different time zone than me. And so it was 5 a.m. my time. Which meant I had to be up at 4 a.m. to have, like, coffee and wake up to go out to my car to, like, do step work with her. To not wake up. And I had to wake up my roommate and Jack. And, like, I took that time because she was willing to, like, take the inventory that I had written and walk me through this amends process. You know? And I started walking through this amends process. And, like, my life has never been the same. And, like, it's been in all areas of my life. Right? Like, I touched on the financial. But, like, I would be lying if I didn't say that the... By far the most... Impactful... Area of amends. And the area that I had the most... Was in people that I've had romantic or sexual relationships with. Because that's my number one thing that I use other than alcohol. Like... And... Like, that was my biggest area of harm done. And, like, more importantly for me, right? Because I'm selfish. It was also the biggest area that I wasn't getting... The results that I wanted in sobriety. Without going through this process. Right? And, like, going back to what it said. Like, Chris read this piece, too. When in conduct inventory, it says... Suppose we fall short of the chosen ideal and stumble. Does this mean we are going to get drunk? Some people tell us so. But this is only a half-truth. It depends on us and on our motives. If we are sorry for what we have done... If I'm really sorry. Am I going to go face that stuff? And have the honest desire to let God take us to better things... We believe we will be forgiven and we'll have learned our lesson. If we are not sorry... You know, I'm not willing to go face that stuff. And our conduct continues to harm others... We are quite sure to drink. We are not theorizing. These are facts out of our experience. And for me... I couldn't... I couldn't stop harming others... Until I went and faced the harm that I had caused in the past. That's just the reality of my experience. I know that's not the case for everyone. I know some people can see the stuff in inventory... And, like, somehow it shifts there. And, you know, that's great. That wasn't my experience. I wasn't getting the results I wanted. I wasn't able to live up to my ideal. You know, and... So I start going and making these amends. And I'm, like, really terrified. Because, like, most of these people... I mean, they, like, showed up in conduct inventory. But, like, they also showed up in resentment inventory... Because of what they had done to me. Right? Like, I was in a series of abusive relationships. And, like, this one guy... Well, actually, two different guys tried to kill me. You know, like, one tried to throw me over the balcony... And my mom... Mom called the cops. And he, like, army crawled off the property. And the other one tried to impale me with, like, a metal level... And went to prison for it. And, like, these people are both on my amends list. Because, like, the first one... Like, two different times... I ended up naked on the roof of his car... With a bottle of Bombay Sapphire... Trying to smash his windshield... As he drove down the road away from my house. Because I told him... To get out. And then he got out. And he wasn't supposed to get out. He was supposed to fight to stay. You know? And, like... And another time... I beat him over the head with his own cowboy boots. You know? It's like... And I stole from him. And I lied to him. Like, he was the relationship... He was, like, one of those end relationships. And anyways... You know, it's like... There was harm done on my side. Regardless of what had happened on that side. And so I find this person... And... I was... I did most of my drinking in California. And so... I plan... I, like, find a bunch of people. And we plan a trip to California for, like... 10 days or 2 weeks. And I set up, like... I don't know... Like, 15 amends... To try to, like, see as many people as possible. And we go there and... I have plans to meet with this guy at Starbucks. And I'm absolutely terrified. Because the last time I saw this person... I drove away from his trailer park... Without a shirt on. Because he had ripped it off of me as I was trying to get away from him. And... And nobody... Let me be clear. Nobody told me I had to make these amends. Like, I understand there are amends where, like, safety is a real thing. But I was not free without making these amends. Especially the guy that I sent to prison. Like, I just... I just checked whether he was in prison. Like, and he got out of prison. And then another woman ended up with her jaw wire shot. And then he went back into prison. But then he was out of prison. And, like, I was so wrapped up in fear that I was aware of all of this. Because from across the country, I'm checking what his status is. Like, I can't be... I couldn't be free when that was the case. And so, like, I was the one that wanted to make these amends. And, like, my sponsor was willing to walk me through... the conversations. But, like, she wasn't pushing... Like, this... This was coming from within me. And so I meet this guy in daylight at a Starbucks. You know, and I'm terrified. And so I have Jack come with me. And we get there really early. So we can pull up in front of the Starbucks. And, like, he can be parked in the car facing the Starbucks. So, like, he can see everything. But we're early enough that the other guy won't know that I brought my boyfriend along. You know? Or my fiancé. Or maybe... I don't know. Maybe my husband. I don't remember the timeline of it. But Jack's sitting there. And I go in. And, you know, I'm terrified. And I sit down with this person. And, you know, I say what I need to say. And, like, it turns out that this guy is also at this time, like, two years sober in Alcoholics Anonymous. And the day that... That day that we're meeting is his two-year anniversary. And, like, I say all of my stuff. And when I ask him if there's anything else, he says yes. And I say, can you tell me about it? And he says, yeah. The time that you tried to throw me off the balcony. Do you remember that? And inside, I'm like, you... Like, I wrote inventory on him. Trying to throw me off the balcony. Like, I have told everyone, including everyone at my home group, like, that I'm going to make amends to this man that tried to throw me off the balcony. And so, like, inside, I'm like, no, I don't remember that. You know, can you tell me about that? And he's like, you know, we were upstairs in your parents' studio. And you kicked my cell phone under the railing so that I had to read... And you reached over the railing. And when I lifted my leg up, you grabbed it and you tried to throw me over. And as he's telling this story, it all comes back. Like, the reality of what actually happened comes back. And, you know, and then you called. Then your mom saw through the window. And she came out. She saw us fighting. And she came out. And you said, I tried to throw you. And she called. The cops. And I had to run through the bushes to get away so they didn't arrest me for your lies. And, like, in that moment, right, like, I had told the lie to defend myself. You know, whatever needed to be said to my mom to defend myself. And, like, make everything match up with me being the victim. And that had become my reality. And then I had been carrying that reality. And, like, even though I was, like, free enough from the resentment around it that I was willing to go make the amends, like, I still was carrying a lie with me. You know? And, like, had I not gone and sat with him, like, I never would have begun to see the depths at which I have no idea what actually happened. And I have no idea how much harm I actually caused to people. Right? Like, another thing he said was, like, the bruises. Right? Like, he was, like, you know. You would fall on your face. Like, you would fall on your face in the cement as we were running across the road. You would wear heels. And you'd fall. Just, you know. And, like, and then in the morning you'd wake up and you'd tell people that I had hit you. You know? And it's, like, and I remember him hitting me. Right? But, like, but when I got back in the car and I'm, like, shattered and I tell Jack this. And Jack's, like, can you actually remember, like, a single instance where he actually. Put a finger on you. And I'm, like, no. I don't actually have a clear image of that ever happening. But I wholeheartedly believe that it had. And that I was the victim of some serious abuse. You know? And, like, even that last moment when I told you I drove away from him without a shirt because he had ripped it off of me. Like, I was going berserk. And hitting him. And he was trying to hold me away from him. And he held my shirt. And I thrashed back and forth until it ripped and then ran away from him. He didn't rip it off of me. And I'm sitting there. And he says, and then I heard that, like, after things ended with us, you were with so-and-so and he ended up in prison. Like, have you talked to him? Yeah. Yeah. And I was, like, no. I've tried. I've reached out to him through Facebook. I've reached out to the numbers I have. Like, he won't respond to me, obviously. Like, I literally sent him to prison. Do you have any idea how I might be able to get in touch with him? And he's, like, well, actually, Sarah passed away. Do you remember Sarah? And I said, yeah. She's on my amends list as well. And I haven't been able to find her. She passed away and her memorial's tomorrow. And I know where it is and I can send you the details. And I bet he would be there. But that's all. That's the best I can say. And on my amends list is Sarah, is her daughter, who was a baby when we were running together and who I was often put in charge of when I was out of my mind and would forget that I was in charge of an infant. And Sarah's brother is also on my amends list. And we're in California. I've reached out to these people for the first time in nine or ten years since seeing them. And, like, this guy gives me information about a memorial that's happening the very next day. And I talk to Jack and I'm like, I can't do it. Like, I can't make a memorial. Like, about me making amends. And he's just like, I don't know how much clearer it could be that, like, we're literally, like, here and this is all lined up that you could see all of these people, you know. And I'm like, you know, thank you and thank God I get to walk on this path with you. And I'm absolutely terrified because this guy is actually scary. And, like, he actually didn't just go to prison for what he did to me. He also went to prison for what. He did to the girl after me. And he also went to prison for an incident that involved the death of a police officer before I ever knew him. And so I am literally, like, what my mind is telling me because I'm so neurotic and so self-obsessed is the guy that I had just seen was getting in contact with the other guy. And they were setting me up to go to this park where this memorial was. And the other guy was going to have a night. And, like, he was going to kill me. And that, like, that was literally, like, a possibility. That was what I was afraid of. Like, I wasn't afraid that the amends was going to be really hard. I was afraid of that, too. But that, like, so we go there and I am, like, vibrating. Like, visibly shaking. And Jack goes with me. I can't do that. Siri, please don't talk to me right now. I can't do that. I can't do that. I don't know what I said that sounded like her name. But I am vibrating. And Jack goes with me because, again, I'm scared. And thank God I have a partner that's, like, willing to help me to do whatever he needs to do to help me make these amends. Because, like, he's had the experience of getting free through making amends like this. And so we go to that memorial and he's sitting right there. You know, and I get to sit down across from him while he's smoking a joint, you know. And grinding some weed, rolling a joint, smoking a joint. That was, like, what he was doing as I was trying to make amends to him. Which is totally great and, you know, wonderful. Wonderful. And. I, you know, I get to sit down and I get to tell him that I was wrong for inflicting bodily harm on him. Right? Because, like, he did on me. But it went both ways. And when I went to the cops, I didn't go to the cops because I was actually scared for my life. I could have gotten in my car and driven away and he wouldn't have been able to follow me. He didn't have a car. And he didn't have money. Like, he. I could have gotten away. It wasn't a situation like that. But I was, had blood coming out of my nose and he wasn't giving me what I wanted. And he wasn't treating me the way that I thought that I should be treated. And so I was going to show him. And I was going to hurt him. And so I went to the police and I reported him and they went and he went to prison. Like, and that is not who I want to be. I do not want to do anything to cause harm to somebody else. Like, regardless of what I want to do. Like, regardless of what I want to do. Like, regardless of what I want to do. Like, regardless of what they had done and that is like what I did there. And I got to. And that's why I was afraid. That's why I was afraid of him. I wasn't afraid of him just for what he had done to me. I was afraid of him just for what I had done to him. I was afraid of him because of what I had done to him. Like, I was scared because I was a scary person. Like, that is, like what I get to see through this whole process is that I experience what I put into this world. And like, when I am out there terrorizing people I expect that they will do the same thing to me. to do the same thing to me. When I'm actively trying to harm people, I think that they're going to do the same thing to me. And I got to sit across from him, you know, and have that conversation. And he made his own version of amends to me as well. And I got to be at that woman's memorial. And I got to go over to her daughter and talk to her. And like I had talked to my sponsor about this before. And, you know, that was one of those things where it's like, that could be harmful to somebody to introduce to them that they were like in drug dens as an infant and like not cared for, diapers not changed, you know, fed five day old McDonald's that hadn't been refrigerated. Like, like, if they don't know that, like that could be harmful information to introduce. To someone. So like, for this one, like, you go up to her and like you introduce yourself. And you ask her if she remembers you, you know, and if she remembers you, then we navigate the conversation from there. And if she doesn't remember you, you know, you pay your respects to her mother. And she didn't she, you know, she's like, I have no idea who you are. And I was able to say, you know, I'm really sorry for your loss. And I was a friend of your mother's. And I knew you when you were a baby. And you've grown into a beautiful young woman. You know, and I and I got to make amends to another, to another guy that was there, who he was blacked out. So he didn't remember the amends. But I got to try to make the amends anyways. And, you know, I wouldn't have, it's like, I wouldn't have gotten to have any of these experiences, like, had I not listened to that. voice inside of me, like telling me that there was more, and like, looking at the experience of other people around me getting completely free and like, being willing to take some action outside of like, what was right in front of me to seek out these people and have these like hard conversations. And the reality for me is like, without amends, like, I just never get to, I just never get to, I just never get to a full understanding of who I actually am, right? Like, we talk about, the book talks about, like, those of us who can't get this, there are people, there are those that are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves, right? Like, and there are such unfortunates. And for me, it's like, I was definitely, I'm not constitutionally incapable, because like, that would mean I'm never capable. Like, but I am incapable of being honest with myself. Like, when I get here, and also, like, that is, I can default into that really quickly, right? Like, Julie talked really well about like, the mental obsession and how like, the mental obsession can begin to creep in, right? Like, it doesn't creep in now, at nine years with like, you know, you can probably go have a drink tonight, right? Like, but it starts to creep in with like, what can I do to get my way? Like, how can I manage and control? And like, and when that starts to creep in, like, without this process, right? Like, this process takes me from being incapable of being honest with myself, and it walks me through a process that enables me to like, see myself honestly, but only with all of it for me, right? Like, I start to see myself honestly, in inventory, you know, and but then it's like, and Chad set me up in talking about like, right, like, we go and make amends in eight and nine, for the harm that we've caused on the basis of operating from our defects of character, right? Like, it doesn't say we go make amends to the harm that we've caused while drinking, right? And like, the best way that I can have any hope of six and seven actually happening, because I don't do it, right, is to go make amends for the harm that I've caused, on the basis of living this way. And as I do that, like, I start to see everything differently, right? Like, and especially when people are willing to reflect back to me what their experience of being in relationship to me was, right? And I, I learned things about myself that like, I wasn't able to see as I was writing, and my sponsor wasn't able to pull out because I didn't have the information on the page for her to pull it out of, because like, I didn't have the information on the page for her to pull it out of, because like, I didn't have the information on the page for her to pull it out of, because like, I wasn't able to see it, right? Like, one guy that I made amends to, he was kind of like, just dumbstruck when I made amends to him, because he was literally like, I don't understand, like, how you are the same person that, you know, cheated on me, and just like, walked out of my life, and used me for my car, and a place to live, and my money, and whatever, like, and then when I asked him if there was anything else, and then when I asked him if there was anything else, he was like, he didn't have anything else to say, like, he was like, I don't, I don't have anything else to say, and then like, 10 minutes later, he like, texted me, and he was like, maybe it was an hour later, I don't know, he texted me, and he was like, do you have an email? I'd like to write you an email, and he like, wrote me an essay about, like, how I had impacted him, and like, how wonderful that, like, he was willing to take the time, it was not like an attacking, like, it was his experience with him, and it was like, it was his experience with the years that I had gone through with him, and it was like, it was like, it was his experience with the years that I had gone through with him, years that have passed in between, like, me coming into his life and, like, using him and, like, in his words, systematically separating him from everything and everyone that mattered to him. To make him more dependent on me, right? Like, I acted like his friends weren't cool. I acted like the stuff he wanted to do wasn't cool. And, like, I tried to isolate him and keep him all for myself so that he couldn't leave, you know? And then I left, and there was, like, and he'd been separated from everything and everyone. And I've never seen, like, I was, I, there's no way I was seeing that on my own. Like, he doesn't take the time to help me see that. And, like, from that, it's, like, I get to then see, like, that is who I am. And, like, I have not just done that to him, but, like, who else do I need to look at? That, like, I have done. I have done that exact same thing with. Because it was a lot of people, right? And, like, as I go through this process, right, like, I get in touch with being able to be, being capable of being honest with myself. But then the mental obsession comes in, and I start to fall asleep in certain areas. There's something that I want to go a certain way, you know? And if I don't, I don't know what to do. I don't stay this course if I'm not active in the disciplines of 10 and 11 and taking stuff back into, you know, those 10-step amends when it is needed. Like, that obsession will take over, and I will become incapable of being honest with myself again. You know? And just to, like, get that, bring that to current, right? It's, like, I had to make amends to my coworker last week. Because, you know, it's, like, I very much, I see many people around me very much wrapped up in their job as their identity. Or money as the measure of success. And this is, like, a place that I am unwilling to go and wary of going because it's in. And, like, when work gets busy, I get whipped up and I get into that and I can be liable to bring my phone home and be working rather than paying attention to my husband. And, like, thinking that, you know, what, there's an actual emergency. Like, I run a decorative painting company. Like, there is no, like, unless you're, like, unless you're, like, a surgeon or, like, a lot of us, right? Like, a lot of us, myself for sure, my husband for sure. It's, like, there is no such thing as a decorative painting. It's a decorative painting emergency. Like, there is no such thing as, like, a printing, which is what he, you know, like, a printing and promotional product emergency. Right? Like, but people think there is. Like, I'm having a party and there's a hole in my wall and I need you to come fix it before my friends come over and see the hole in my wall. Right? And, like, I will get wrapped up in this. And anyways, like, I very much, like, I have seen this and I have seen that I don't want to go there. And I try to stay. I try to stay, like, very conscious and aware of that and not, like, I want to have a very full life outside of work. And I have a job that every single day I leave my desk with just as long of a list on it as when I started the day. Which is a difficult thing for someone like me that, like, wants to complete all the tasks. And the way that our company is set up. Like, I was hired as the owner's assistant. And, like, I have slowly moved into running the company. And she's, like, stepped away. And there isn't really somebody to fill my responsibilities when I take time off. And so my boss was having a conversation with me of, like, you know, it's really, it's a burden on everybody else when you take time off. Right? Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. I understand that. But, like, do you understand that what you're saying to me is that, like, I work so hard and do so much work that when I take time off, there's a lot of work for everybody else. And it's not really fair to punish me for my productivity by, like, not giving me any time off. Right? And, like, now I run the company. So I'm part of the problem. And that, like, I haven't, we haven't figured out a solution. to this problem yet. But there's like a partial solution to this problem, which is like the woman who runs the company with me a lot and steps in when I take time off. And so like September's crazy for us. It always is. I don't know why we're gone. We're in Texas the first weekend. And then like we're gone. We were gone last weekend. We're gone this weekend. And I end up taking a lot of time off work. And right. And I've had these conversations with my boss. And like I'm clear that I'm still going to take time off work even if it sometimes is, if it's even though it's never a good time for me to take time off work. Right. Because it's never a good time for me to take time off work. And if I wait until there's a good time, my entire life is going to pass me by and I'm never going to have taken time off. Work. But based on this understanding of values, I have then in between last weekend when we were in Ventnor and this weekend when we were here, Jack and I decided let's go to the beach for a week because like we're doing all of this taking time off, but it's not like for us to just get time together. We're running around doing all of these things. And like he got out of prison in May and like we've only gotten a couple. Days away together where it's just been us and like not doing stuff. And he's like, are you sure that you want to do that? Like this is months ago. He's like, that's a lot of time off in September. Like, and I'm like, I don't care. Like we have to take the time off, you know, like I'm like married to this. Like now it's like, I'm not going to be identified with work. So I've identified myself with the identity of, I won't be identified with work, you know, like, and I'm like, no, we're doing it. I'm like, they're at work. They're like, we're just off. You're off again. Like, and my boss is like talking to me. And then she says to me, and like, she never wants me to take time off. I'm going to take time off even when she doesn't want me to take time off. Right. Like that's all clear. But then she says that like, there's resentment building in one of my other coworkers. And then I get defensive. Right. And my hackles come up and like, and I only ever have to defend when there's a lot of people. And I'm like, I don't want to take time off. I'm like, I don't want to take time off. And then I go into like, I need to be able to take time off. And then I go through the calendar and I count the number of days she's taken off over the course of the year. And I count the number of days that I've taken off over the course of the year. And I'm like, she's taken 18 days and I've taken 21. Like, it's basically the same, but that's not counting this week that which was five more days that I was also scheduled to be off. And I, you know, and I get all defensive and stuff. And it's like, I don't want to take time off. And I'm like, I don't want to take time off. And then I call my sponsor who's not available. And then I go to God and I'm sitting in my home group and I can't even hear the speaker who like I heard was wonderful. He's one of our great friends and a home group member. Luckily there's recordings because everyone said he did a great job, but like, I have no idea because like, I'm just in my head of, oh my gosh, Sophie hates me. Work's going to be terrible. Now I'm not even going to be able to enjoy my time away. I can't believe they did this to me. Right. Like, um, I shouldn't be made to feel guilty to go away. And so like, I, um, I start jotting down like a little inventory, which turns into an amends card, which like, as I was flipping through my book earlier, I was like, oh, this is actually in my book. So that's a nice coincidence. Um, right. Selfish considered that it would be hard for everyone else and did it anyways. Right. Cause the, like at first what I wanted to say was like, I didn't think about how hard it would be. I mean, everybody else, but that's not true. Like I did think it, like, I thought it was going to be hard for everybody else. I just, I did it anyways. Um, dishonest trying to justify and rationalize rather than admitting my wrong promptly and trying to make it right. And then like for the amends, uh, put you in a position to be overburdened and resentful and contributed to disharmony in the workplace. Um, not a proper system in place. For me taking time off, which does need to be sorted out because I get overburdened and I need to turn off, but I didn't even consider that that would do the exact same thing to you. Um, entitled. I didn't, you know, consider asking you this. She asks me every single time if it's okay, if she takes time off because she knows it's going to be more of a burden on me. I didn't ask her, which probably would have felt a whole lot different. You know, and it's like, and I'm, it's like, well, she's technically like my assistant and like, I'm higher in the chain than she is, but like the burden falls on her. Um, and so, you know, it's like, it doesn't matter. I mean, it does matter that the systems aren't in place. That's something that like now I need to do something about, but like I got to go into work and I get to have this conversation with her and I get to say this stuff and I get to say that it was wrong. And I get to be like, I'm going to be back at work Wednesday morning, be there Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Like, is it okay if Jack and I take Monday, Tuesday, like, or would you like me to be here for the full week and be entirely willing to be there for the full week if that's what she needs and have to go home and have the conversation with my husband of like, I messed up and like, I need to show up for work and like, you know, uh, and like have him just meet that with conversation. And I'm like, I need to show up for work and like, you know, uh, and like have him just meet that with conversation. I don't have a complete understanding and like willingness to do whatever needs to be done. Right. But like in that moment, right. It's like, it's this, it's like a little thing, but it's not a little thing. It's like a big thing. Right. Like I get to see, it's like, I can, I could have floated on the defend myself and go away and not look at it and like come back and some weird, like undercurrents and like, you know, just a little bit of uncomfortability, but it would like eventually subside. And like, that's like how I went through my whole life. Right. Just like not facing what needed to be faced. Um, and you know, like not capable, like becoming incapable of being honest with myself because of this one little thing where like, I can either look at it or not look at it. Like, and through going through this process, like, and the disciplines of, of step 10 and 11, um, you know, and like having other people to run stuff by because right. Like I can see your stuff. I can see the women that I sponsor. I can see when they're being dishonest with themselves, but I can't see it on myself. Right. Like when it's the exact same thing. And I just had a conversation with a woman that I sponsor about how she's doing the same thing, which is like also though, like a beautiful piece of, of working with others is that so many times when there is something that I'm like kind of asleep to one of the women that I work with shows up doing the exact same thing. Like, and then I'm able to see it on her and I'm no longer able to be like fully asleep to it in myself, you know, but it's like these little, these little things like just become the, the fabric of a completely different life. Like when I'm willing to look at the disturbance, when I'm willing to have a vulnerable conversation, like even when it's with some, you know, it's like, it's one thing to like make these amends all the time to my husband, who's like also on this path and understands what I'm doing. It's like a very different thing to go into work. And like my completely normal, like 27 year old coworker be like, can we sit down and have a conversation? And she's like, do we have to? And I'm like, yes, please. If you're willing, like, um, you know, and like, which like she would probably, think she would rather brush it under the rug, you know? Um, but yeah, this, the life that we get to live here with these tools that like help us get free from the bondage of self and continue to get free when self continues to try to grab us. Right. Like, cause that is my experience. Like the more that I wake up to it, like the more it's just there, like trying to, bring me back in and like, it might be a more subtle ways, um, which means I have to be even more on guard, but like, if I am willing and awake and practicing these disciplines, like there is always room for more. And like, you know, I, uh, like Nicoletta said, it's like, I just, um, and I'm like the baby of all of the speakers today by far. Um, and really like, I just only feel, like I have just begun to scratch the surface. And if you still feel that at, you know, 19 years, you know, it's like this really submitting to this process. Like, I just think it's endless with the freedom that we can get. Um, and I'm just really, really grateful to be here. Um, and thank you for my life. For all of you, guys, thank you so much today. And I'll just say I'm basically all I wanted to say is I would't have to say anything about you either today. Two 데�95 days right now. Okay. Okay. Hi there H awks if anyone here? We're good? This one? No, thanks.