Physical Allergy and Mental Obsession – Bb Workshop – Part 2 of 10 – Local AA Speakers

When he sat down and said, thank you, you've just set the table, you know, for more to come. Sitting before you is Charlie and Katie Parker. They are from Austin, Texas. We've just spent time on the telephone, and I can tell you from the little bit that I have learned that we are definitely in for a treat. It's always very inspiring to have different people come in from different areas and bring their recovery story and the way they happen to see it and what has helped them. And they have some information that is new to me, and they had us copying. Actually, I begged Wassil, and I called him up, can you go to Kinko's this morning? And he went and made all these copies for us, so thank you to Wassil. And so here they are. I'd like to introduce Katie and Charlie Parker. All right, thank you. Hi, everybody. I'm Charlie Parker. I'm a grateful, recovered alcoholic. Hi, Charlie. We're visiting from Austin, Texas, land of humility. My sobriety date is March 22nd of 1985, and that's the most important thing that's ever happened to me. Katie? I'm Katie. I'm also a grateful recovered alcoholic I've had the gift of sobriety since October the 28th of 84, which is about five months longer than Charlie, just in case you're counting. That's the bane of my existence. I've kept her sober a few times by telling her that if she ever were to drink again, I'd sponsor her when she comes back. I think that's been motivation for her. Yes, it has. I'm going to start off with a couple of things that I'm real fond of. One is, I don't know if you're familiar with the set-aside prayer, but I'd like to start off with the set-a-side prayer because sometimes what I think I know can stand in the way of the truth. And also if you guys would indulge me, I'd like to do the set aside prayer and then we'll do a quick three minute meditation and then we'll crank the tape up again and talk about step one, two, and three. dear God please help me set aside everything we think we know about ourselves the big book, alcoholism the steps and especially you God, we ask that we may have a truly open mind so we might have a new experience with these things please help us see the truth amen let's do a quick three minute meditation to get us all centered in the room thank you for that I brought some copies of the set aside prayer I didn't bring anything I sent some and I'm probably going to get up while I'm talking I've never been very good at sitting down no no I'm just going to stand right there but I brought some copies of the said aside prayer I brought another piece called reflections of step one And I love to read things that I agree with. And, you know, it's amazing how many times some of the stuff that speaks to me, I'll talk to my sponsor and he'll say, oh, yeah, that's so-and-so from Phoenix. I put him through the work, you Know, five years ago. Or the other something, I go, man, look at this. And he'll see, oh yeah, that's someone so from New Jersey and I put them through the word, you know, so I guess there's a common thread to what appeals to me. But we're here from Austin, Texas. I'm really grateful to be here and grateful to anybody that had anything to do with putting this thing on. We're really looking forward to the weekend, and we're going to kind of go through the steps a little bit as we go along. Now, we might as well start off with rigorous honesty. Truth be told, this is not KDP. P. This is Katie G., who's been my best friend for 25 years, and then her husband passed away, and I'm sure we'll talk about that some. We've been a couple for almost six years, and we're engaged to be married, but at this point, we are not married. So if we need to, but it was cool to see Katie and Charlie P. on there, but it's quite a story, and you'll probably see a lot of the energy between us because there was this 20-year period of being like brother and sister, and then her husband – she was married the entire time, and there was zero flirtation or any of that energy going on. And so it was more like pulling the pigtails and teasing her until she cried, which was the high point of my day. And then to try to change that energy into – the pulling the pig tails, just in case somebody's thinking about trying it, it doesn't work well in a relationship. No, it does not. But we've been a couple for a long time, and I'm happier than I've ever been. And our stories are very similar in that both of us, some parts of it are similar. One big piece is that both OF us had our biggest spiritual awakening around 17 or 18 years of sobriety. And I have been on fire. Is that a common theme? And, you know, it's funny. In our home group, a guy raised his hand. He said, I'm afraid to have 17 years. There were six people in the room that had all hit the wall at 17 years and had fortunately turned to the work rather than to the bottle. But my sponsor likes to say, how do you know what you don't know? And there was a lot of time where I thought I knew what AA was. If you'd have come to me when I had 17 years and said, Charlie, what's going to set you on fire, what's gonna change your life is gonna be involvement and participation in the program and the steps and the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, I would have told you you're crazy because I've done AA. I knew what AA brings me and I found out there was a level of AA that I didn't even know was out there. It reminded me, I got invited to a cowboy game by a sponsor the other day and he had told me that his folks had a box at the Dallas, my office, my apologies, but my office looks like a Dallas Cowboys museum. And this guy said, My family's got a box to the Cowboy game, and I've been going to Cowboy games since they were good. And I thought, Well, that's fine. You know, one day he called and says, Do you want to go see the Philadelphia game? And I went, Absolutely. Well, it turns out we come in through a different entrance. We go up a private staircase. We're in a box with waiter service. And I didn't know whether to be happy about being there or be upset about all the other games where I'd sat in the cheap seats. And that's kind of the way I felt about AA. It's like you find out there's this whole other level of the game going on that I didn'T even know was there. I hope that's what we talk about this weekend. I can feel myself getting ready to stand up. I've never been much for talking. Amen? See how I asked for permission? But is this on? All right. But one of the things that we hope to talk about is actual participation in the program by Alcoholics Anonymous at a different level. And the most important thing that can come out of a weekend like this or a study in the book or any of that stuff is to take my experience and lay it up against the stuff that I'm hearing and see if it's a fit. But more importantly, just going and hearing that stuff for me is inspiring and lets me know that the answer is there. But if I don't actually engage in the work, it's just more self-knowledge. So I hope that what I'm talking about is stuff that's coming out of my own experience. Just out of curiosity, how many people have less than a year? Anybody? Good. All right, I'm glad. And then what about less than five years? Great. And then I guess the rest. Anybody with less than ten years? Okay, well, good deal. We've got a nice mix of folks. And it's funny because I'll have a talk. I was talking in Las Vegas one time, and I had a talk all set up. And then I get up and I said, how many people have less than 30 days of sobriety? And two-thirds of the room raised their hand. And I was like, well, that's going to change the talk a little bit. But what we're talking about tonight, though, is steps one, two, and three. And I'm going to attempt to do one and hopefully roll into two. And then Katie's goingto get upand do three. Now, Chris talks a lot about some of the stuff that I like to talk about. But it's funny. I go out and talk at this treatment center in Austin every Monday. And I say the same thing four weeks in a row. And I figure I've got four shots at these guys. And hopefully, a lot of times they don't hear anything on the first talk. And then the second talk, maybe they hear a little bit. The third talk, it kind of reinforces it a little bet. At the fourth talk, they're short and they're getting ready to go home and they don't hear much anymore. But a lot of this stuff that we're talking about, I heard for a long time. I don't know whether they weren't saying it or I wasn't hearing it, but it took me a long term to get to AA. And I don' t know about anybody else, but I was fixing to go to treatment. Well, that's a Texas term. Fixing means preparing too, not repairing, preparing. I was about to go to treatment for a long time, and next week was always a really good time to go to treatment. And when it would get really bad, sometimes, by God, I'm going to go tomorrow. Well, probably tomorrow afternoon, but today was never the day. And then I got to treatment, when I finally got into AA and treatment, I had a different understanding than I have today. And that's what I'm going to talk about. I don't have enough time to talk a lot about what I used to think, but a lot of what Chris said earlier was true for me in that in my first 17 years in AA, and certainly in those first few years, I was addressing an alcohol problem and i've lived a program based on abstinence from alcohol and some of you guys have had the delight of sitting in meetings with the guy you know that's like you know i screamed at my wife and slapped one of the kids and kicked the dog on the way out to the door and then did three hours internet poker at work and looked at porn and then you know left work an hour and a half early but i didn't drink today and that makes me a winner You know, no, that makes you kind of a jerk. But it was like if the problem was alcohol, then my whole deal was about not drinking. And I really, I think I spent years in AA raising my hand saying, my name's Charlie and I'm alcoholic, and I had no clue what it meant. I figured I must be alcoholic because, well, for one thing, I drink all the time. I drink, you know, every day. And my mother used to – my mother was a first-grade teacher for 42 years, and she had a way of shaking just that one finger. And she would say – when he says our alcoholic life seems like the only normal one, she would saying, You drink every day? And I remember thinking, Everybody I know drinks every day, you Know? I mean, if drinking – the one thing that I didn't know to say to her was that if drinking did for you what it does for me, you'd drink every day too and because we're going to get more into that spiritual malady but that black hole I've been carrying around since elementary school, drinking was the only thing I'd ever found that filled that and it was interesting when Chris talked about alcoholism preceding drinking i think my alcoholism you know i qualify for several different 12-step fellowships and um i uh in fact the term i never heard the term drug of choice until i came into the rooms and and that's a treatment center term but it i didn't i never knew you had to choose I was a little bit of a pig, but always drinking. I always drank, always drank. But I never just drank, but I always drink. And I really think that everything that I did and a lot of the stuff I've done since I sobered up can be driven by alcoholism if I'm not careful. The reason I like to talk so much about step one, it's critically important. And there's another handout that we've got. Poor Karen. My world blew up at my house about ten days ago with my youngest daughter. I can't go into it, but it's been very, very distracting. And she sent me an email a week ago saying, do you guys have any handouts or anything? And no, no, we'll be fine. And then last night I must have emailed her six things. I think she printed out 1,100 pages today. So I apologize for that. And I want to thank you guys for printing that out. But another thing I've got is a piece called Reflections on Step One. I'd like for you to read it, you know, afterwards. But an understanding of step one is so important that if you count the first 103 pages of the big book, which is basically where our recovery text is, and the doctor's opinion, And there's setting aside, you know, the family afterward, chapter to wives, to employers, and a vision for you. There's 115 pages in there. It basically contains our recovery text. And out of that 115 pages, about 55 pages of it deal with step one. Almost half of it deals with step 1. It's that important because AA, the big deal that happened when AA came together, was an understanding of the problem, an understanding of the solution, and then a program of action. The big deal was a program of action that will bring about that solution. Because if you read in 26 and 27 about the certain American businessman, even Carl Young understood the problem. He told the guy, you have the mind of a chronic alcoholic. Like, I've never seen one single case recover where it exists to the extent that you have it. And he even knew what the solution was, that psychic change. But he didn't have a program of action that would bring about that solution. So those three things happen together. But the thing about step one is we're not going anywhere until I understand what step one ist. On page 30 in our book, it says we learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholic. This is the first step in recovery. Well, there's a lot going on in that sentence because it's hugely different between saying up here, sure, I'm alcoholic, you know, I must be alcoholic. I drink all the time. I've had all that stuff happen. And fully conceding to my innermOST self that I'm an alcoholic. The one thing that I wish I could bestow on every one of those guys in that treatment center that I speak to every week would be what I call and what we call a step-one experience because there's something happens when a guy has that step-on experience or a person has that steps-on experienced. But in order for me to have, to fully concede to my innermost self what it means to be alcoholic, I best know what it, I mean, I best knows what it's like and what it means to be alcoholic before I'm going to be able to fully concede to it. Doesn't that make sense? So what does it mean to be alcoholic? There's a lot of that external unmanageability that we hear a lot about and I had all that stuff happen. I crashed cars and got DWIs and went to jail and got divorces and all that stuff and I've got some funny stories about that but uh um that doesn't make me alcoholic you know because there's people would you agree there's probably somebody sitting in jail tonight that drank too much last night and on their way home they got a dwi but they're not alcoholic so if if you can get a dw i without being alcoholic obviously getting dwis doesn't makes me an alcoholic but well what does and And the shortest version is the two problems I have with alcohol. I've really only got two problems with alcohol, one happens to me when I drink it and one happens to me what I don't drink it. Other than that, I've got a pretty good grip on the whole booze thing, you know, but you know the first part of it is what happens when I drank it. It triggers an abnormal...the book talks about an allergy. And it talks about the symptom of that allergy. What time did I start? You got about 20 minutes. You going to let me go as long as I want? I thought not. The book talks about this physical allergy and for allergy they just mean an abnormal physical reaction. A reaction that's not standard. My sister is not alcoholic. I've washed her drink. I mean, I've watched her drink. And she does not drink like we do. But she doesn't have this physical reaction. If you've got an allergy, there's a symptom of the allergy. And the book talks about a manifestation of an allergy. And all a manifestation means is how does that allergy show up? How does it appear? Like if I was allergic to strawberries and I ate strawberries and my throat swolls shut and my eyes swoll shut and I couldn't breathe, you'd say I got a bad physical reaction to strawberries. Well, the reaction I have to alcohol is this craving, a craving for more booze. No matter what my plan was going in, when I take that first drink, it triggers a physical reaction in me that is bigger than I am. And that is a big piece of what makes me alcoholic. I used to think that I just changed my mind. You know, I'm just going to go by for happy hour and have a couple of drinks with the guys. You know? By God, we've been at work all day. A lot of this is kind of a fantasy situation because there's not many lines in the big book that don't apply to me. But one is, there's a line that says our stories are filled with countless vain attempts to prove that we could drink like normal men. i have very little experience with that with that you know trying to drink like normal man i was kind of and that's not everybody's experience in a but it was mine from the time i took my first drink till i stopped i didn't drink every day but i never turned down the opportunity to get loaded one time under any circumstances for any reason there was never a time where i would say no you see um tomorrow's my mother's birthday or um or anything you know there was it was always on if the if it presented itself but i didn't understand this phenomenon of craving because when i would drink all of a sudden i would change my mind and i'm about drinking now and i've been drinking a lot and while the other guys were going home because their wife was cooking dinner, I'm staying here. And I thought I'd just changed my mind, but what had happened was I'd triggered this phenomenon of craving. Well, that's what happens. I'm trying to make this as short as possible because I know Katie is going to need as much time as she can to do step three. That's part of the problem is what happens when I take a drink. That is the physical part of my problem with alcohol. But now let's say, let's go back to strawberries. Let's say you come over to the house and I'm blue and I're on the floor and you rush me down to the hospital and give me a big shot of Benadryl. First of all, you'd admit this guy's got a pretty bad strawberry problem, wouldn't you? Well, but now I can breathe. The Benadyl is kicking in. My eyes start to open up. My throat opens up. It looks like I'm going to be okay. Let Let's say you come by the house tomorrow morning to see how I'm doing, and I've got a big old mixing bowl full of strawberries and a fork, and I'm going, hey, what's up? Would you still think my problem was strawberries? What would you think? You'd think this guy's crazy. But when you do it with booze, it's the same because on page 23, it stops looking at the body. The doctor's opinion deals some with the mental obsession, but in the book it talks a lot about my physical reaction to alcohol. But then on about page 23 it says these observations, which is all the observations about what happens when I drink, these observations would be academic and pointless if our friend never took the first drink, thereby setting the terrible cycle in motion. What they're saying is that my physical reaction wouldn't mean anything if I didn't drink alcohol. If my problem was alcohol, my answer would be detox. You know, just pat me on the ass and set me free, and I'll take care of business from here. But my biggest problem with alcohol is that every time I've ever taken the first drink, I've been stone cold sober. I can't blame the first drink on being drunk. Is that, you with me on that? You know, so I make the decision to drink sober. That's that thing that Chris was talking about, about being restless, irritable and discontented. That happens to me when I'm not drinking. And I mean, have you ever been the person where you stop drinking for two or three weeks and they go, for God's sake, man, And let me buy you a drink. You know, you are miserable drunk, but you are really miserable sober. Well, that's what happens to me because when I stop drinking, I'm not okay. My problems don't go away. So this is the shortest version. And it's funny, I can't really talk about step one without talking about the nature of the disease of alcoholism because I can't just say, you know, I'm powerless over alcohol and my life is unmanageable without talking about the way that shows up in my life. And a lot of this stuff, and what I love about this Reflections on Step 1 that I brought is it talks about how the strength of my decision and my awareness and my Step 1 experience drives the entire recovery process because if I really believe that I've got this hopeless condition of mind and body, the short version of step one is that I'm completely and totally sunk. I've Got No Shot On My Own, that over any period of time I'm going to become uncomfortable. It's like over a period of times I'm gonna get uncomfortable enough that my brain is gonna say, it usually sounds something like this, My brain goes, come on, Charlie. Come on, man. For God's sake, what are you doing? You know, I mean, you haven't had a drink in three weeks now. I mean we won't drink like we did last time, but we'll manage it a little better this time. We definitely will stay off of that stuff and this stuff and only do this stuff, but we're going to manage it better than we did the last time. And it won't be as bad as the last one. I mean, really, for God's sake, if you think about it, last time wasn't even really that bad. You know? I mean. I don't know why you checked yourself into that detox center. I mean that was really hasty. You know. But, you know. And after a while, it's like I get more and more uncomfortable until it triggers that first drink. So the mental obsession is what makes me powerless over the first drink, and when i take the first drink we trigger that phenomenon of craving and the phenomenon of craving makes me powerless over the second drink and the 10th drink and the 50th drink so what happens for a guy like me is i get caught in a cycle it says when this sort of thinking is fully established well for me the way that looks is i gets stuck in a place where i drink until i have to stop i mean i'll just drink and drink and drink until i Have to stop and then i'll stop And i'll, stop until i. Have to drink That's the terrible cycle that we talk about when we talk About being a recovered alcoholic that's what we talk About being delivered from is uh that hopeless condition Of mind and body and it took a long time for me to Understand what that meant when we say the hopeless condition of mind and body is that I've got to, you know, this would be a really awful program if all we have was step one. There's no good news at the end of step one, you know. I mean, basically, we'd bring a guy in and we'd go, okay, Ron, here's the deal. You got a body that ain't never going to drink regular. It seems bad, but there's a bottom below the bottom you know. It's just, you know, what's bad now could be really peachy in a couple of years, but that's not the worst part. You've got a mind that's going to convince you to get drunk every time. Really sorry. Try to have a nice day, you know? But that's what it would sound like if we had a one-step program. But what happens with that awareness, I see guys have that step one experience where how am I going to when I you're going to give me a five minutes okay okay good I got twelve minutes she's trying to jit me out of two minutes here where was I step one step one program okay We were talking about reflections on step one. The other thing I've got to tell you, if we're going to be here all weekend, I've Got to Tell You One Other Thing. I've GOT a little ADD working up here. And my mind goes off on little bunny trails sometimes. And a lot of times I'll say, I'll get back to that later. I'll start into something I go, but I'll Get Back to That Later. And all that means is this is an inappropriate time in the talk to bring that piece in. But when I tell you we're going to come back to it, we're probably not coming back. There's about a 5% chance that I'm going to pull it back up. I get really excited when I actually pull it back in later. Oh, really? Oh, okay. Well, then you were right, darling. Okay, thank you. Well, that time went fast. The thing about this terrible cycle is that that piece in the doctor's opinion he says uh when they succumb to the desire again as so many do and the phenomenon of craving develops they pass through the well-known stages of a spree emerging remorseful with a firm resolution not to drink again that's got a real familiar sound to me and it says this is repeated over and over and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there's very little hope of his recovery that's the way they first bring out the concept of step two is that lack of power that chris was talking about if if i have to experience an entire psychic change it's because my power can't get the job done later on in the regular text outside of the doctor's opinion it says when this sort of thinking is fully established in a person with alcoholic tendencies he has probably placed himself beyond human aid so the reason the book spent so much time convincing me of the problem is because i've got to be convinced that on my own power i've got no shot at doing this deal on my own i am completely sunk no shot period because if i don't believe that and that's what it discusses in that paper if my step one is an intellectual decision i'm not going to be driven into the work like if it's a full concession to my innermost self when i have fully conceded to my inner most self that i got no chance of doing this on my own then the power gets really interesting you see you see what i'm saying that's the way they roll it out because they know that you can't just walk up to a drunk and say you gotta find god pal you know i've got to be convinced that my own power won't do it before i'm going to be interested in any other power and if it's a decision that comes from way down in here i'm gonna be driven into the work i'm gonna be more interested in step two and when we get into step three i'm gonna be really a lot more deeply interested in what the solution is um it's a lot different it's funny in my mind And I sponsor a guy that came in from another 12-step fellowship, and his first sponsor had him write 70 pages on unmanageability. They were doing a step a month, and that's a great plan in my mind unless you're an alcoholic, and then it's playing with fire. But in my mine, the way I read the book, really the most unmanaged ability that they talk about in step one is really, bottom line, can't I manage the decision to not drink again? When I decide I'm going to stop drinking, have I lost the power of choice and control? My first job when I sit down with a new guy is to give him a fatal dose of alcoholism. Tell him what it means to be alcoholic. Describe that terrible cycle at the beginning and say, have you lost the Power of Choice and Control? because we're not going anywhere until we've established what the problem is. So, the bulk of the unmanageability that I see in the first step is on a simplistic level, can I manage that decision? Now, when we get further on into the third step especially, it talks a lot about unmanagability and trying to wrest satisfaction by managing well. Katie will talk about that, and I don't want to step on that. But the more I go through the work, I see how critical that step one is for me. It's a lot different than, I think, when I first came in, I thought, I've got a problem with alcohol. I've had a lot of problems with alcohol, drank myself out of college, drank myself Out of Relationships, you know, that sort of thing. All this bad stuff happens. so that therefore my life is unmanageable and if i can get the drinking out of my way i'll be able to kick butt again and it was what katie's going to talk about came as really bad news to me later but i've had different levels of awareness of that and uh but so i guess in the shortest version talking about step one we talk about the phenomenon of craving and the mental obsession. Those two things working together is what makes me alcoholic. We talk about that terrible cycle, we talk about the loss of choice and control. I don't usually spend a lot of time with a new guy on step two. I've wasted a lot of time in step two trying to figure out what the power is. The most important thing in my mind is that I need that power and I'm willing to believe that it might be out there. One of the biggest things I learned about step two was, I used to think that if zero was zero God, there's no possibility that there's any God, period. And that 100 was total God consciousness. I used to think, well, I have to get to where I believe in 100 before I can take step two. But all that's required for step two is, am I willing to believe that there could possibly be something to the right of zero. That's all it takes. The book talks about on this cornerstone a wonderfully something spiritual foundation can be built. I don't usually spend, if the guy is convinced of the need and the problem, we usually don't have to spend a lot of time in step two. But I always tell them the only reason we talk about God in here is because it's the only thing that we've ever seen work. It was a big deal when it hit the ground. And if you read that certain American businessman on page 26 and 27, it's a beautiful example of a guy that understands the problem but may not believe that he needs the spiritual solution. And to me it's very interesting that they bring that in in step three. I think I'm going to let Katie take over now. Thanks a lot. Hi everyone, I'm Katie. I'm a grateful recovered alcoholic. Honey, that was wonderful. I think he does such a great job on step one. You know, I asked him to, when we were looking at the way this was laid out, I said, you know,I'd really like to do step three. Step three to me is what I like to consider the second surrender. The first surrender is to alcohol. the first surrender as far as I'm concerned is what Chris has said and what Charlie has said when I came in here alcohol is my problem absolutely no doubt if you could get the alcohol out of my life I can manage well as the book says a victim of the delusion that we can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of this world if we could just manage well and so that second surrender that has to take place that unfortunately we don't hear enough about in AA and I know for myself I didn't was the surrender to self. And I think the self piece is so misunderstood. And so Charlie does a fabulous job of explaining it also, but together we're very good at, we both do a lot of work with newcomers. And we do some work with people that have, I guess I sponsor a gal that's got 20 years. The other people have under 10, you know, 10, 8, 7, and then under 2. and it's just different wherever you are in your recovery program, you know? I mean, for me, the longer you're sober, the more hard-headed you are. My God, to get a point across, you've got to drill it in, and then you've Got to argue and drill and argue and drill, and that's how I am, and so I don't work that well with long-term sobriety anymore. My sponsor does a fabulous job. She's a lot gentler than I am. I am way more aggressive, and one of the things is when I was in my untreated alcoholism for about 10 years actually because I think you can ride that wave for a long, long time. I mean I think in this room there's people that have stayed sober a long time on just the absence of alcohol and kind of sort of trying to find God sort of kind of hopefully, right, that avenue. And so when my husband had passed away, I had called my sponsor. Actually, I'd found a sponsor because I'm flying in the wind. I'm not using a sponsor and, you know, I'm doing all the things. I'm just meeting-based sobriety. And I said to her, I said, I give her this really painful, it's probably been about 18 months and I am just sobbing on the phone and I just can't get my life together and I'm so miserably unhappy and Charlie is absolutely not behaving now, right? Charlie and I are seeing each other. He is not behaving. He's not changing like I think he should, and he's not meeting the expectations. Are you hearing all this? And so my sponsor goes, oh, Katie, I so understand. She goes, you know, do you know where your book is? And I thought, well, I'm going to have to find it, right? I mean, that's truly untreated alcoholism when you don't even know where you're going to find your book. And I guarantee some of you folks in this room have not known where your books are for some period of time, yes? I mean, that in itself was a little bit of an aha. It's like, where is that book? And so I found it and she said, I want you to read 60 to 63. And I thought, okay, it's probably some real good piece of spiritual material that's going to tell me that God's going to take care of this situation, right? And I flip it open and I happen to flip it open to page 62, right where it says selfish and self-centered that we think the root is the root of our trouble and I thought did she not hear a word that I must have talked to her for an hour for god's sakes I mean what is she thinking well of course you know my first thought is you know that enough of her but the truth of the matter is is looking back at this is she so gently brought me to that because she listened to me for a good hour and then said here's the problem we're going to go to work on this and so one of the things that i wanted to mention is what what charlie said about um in the doctor's opinion where it says that we uh succumb to the drink problem right the craving uh and then we we give in it says the um they pass through the well-known stages of a spree emerging remorseful with a firm resolution not to drink again this is repeated over and over and you can take out alcohol and put self-will in there see you do this we and i you and i may say you a lot i work i work at the treatment centers i have a tendency to do that and forget to say me so please don't take that offensively um we what we tend to do is we continue to throw grenades right especially in relationship we know the hot points and everything calms down it actually gets going pretty good just throw that little grenade over there and blow it up go okay just checking to be sure everything's okay over there right and everything's all rattled up again you know and it's interesting because in AA there's the boy problems and the girl problems and they like to say the girls like to do it but you boys like to start the problems too right I mean this is an alcoholism problem this is not a boy problem and a girl problem this is alcoholism and what we tend to do is we continue to go against that wall of self-will over and over and again and i'll even step out there just a little bit and risk a statement that is and i told charlie i wasn't going to say this and i'm jumping right out there saying it i really believe a lot of people lean on the al-anon program i'm not knocking the al-anon program as a matter of fact it's fabulous however if what your problem is is your nature with other personalities to me that's 60 to 63 al-anan is when you have to work with what i consider an active alcoholic right not always recovered alcoholic unless you are 100 percent al-alan and we have a lot of alcoholics going into the alan on program When the truth is, to me, it's 60 to 63. You're just trying to control the whole darn thing. And so I just stepped out there. I hope I didn't piss anybody off too terribly bad. You know, and I love the program if I'm working up against an active alcoholic in my world. So here we go on page 60, guys. It says right before we start the third step, it says the A, Bs, and Cs, which are the problem, the solution, and the program of action, right? The problem is that we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives. That B, that no human power could have relieved our alcoholism. That's the solution, right? And that God could and would if he were sought, and that's the program of action. So the A, Bs, and Cs are right there clear, and it says being convinced. Well, you have to be convinced that you've got the A's, B's, andCs. Now here's the deal. One of the other most important aspects of a big book study is to teach you how to be a sponsor, period. This is a program of passing it on. This isa program of me teaching you to teach you toteach you to teache you. It's not a program to teachyou so you get better. It's a programto teach you to pass it on because that's the whole paradox of this thing. That's why I think we sit in untreated alcoholism, because we're just trying to get fixed. We're just tried to just fix me and I'll feel better and then I can help you. See, we don't realize the gift comes in helping. And so when learning all this, remember, this is so you can pass it on. Correct? And big piece I missed for many, many years. So it says being convinced we were at step three. Now, a lot of times what tends to happen is people jump right into, boom, right on your knees, third step prayer. No explanation of what your third step pray is about. That was my experience. And granted, the people that I got sober with were doing the best they could. And by golly, I'm 24 years sober today. So it did work. But I understand more and more today how we can better this program, yes? And so never knocking what was done to me, but I don't pass on what was given to me. I learned a new approach and that's what I'm taking. So it says, which is that we decided to turn our will and our life. Now there's two parts to this, our will and our live. I always thought it was just my will. It's the whole shebang. I mean, I've got to turn the whole thing over. Well, you know what? I can't do that. I absolutely cannot do that because that's what got me here. That's who I am. That is what has gotten me the jobs, the guys, the children, the whatever I needed in life with my self-will. How many of you guys got where you are by driving that bus, man? I mean, I may have wrecked it into the wall 110 times, but by golly, I got what I needed. Didn't always like what I got, but I got it, see? And that's what you're asking me to surrender. I'm not thinking this is a very good deal. I'm Not really digging that. So I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll surrender alcohol and drugs because I had a pretty good drug problem too. I'll surrender the alcohol and the drugs, and let me see if I can manage. And what I can't manage, I'll come to you. And I call that the drunk prayer. That's the one where I go, you know what? God, I can'T handle this anymore. If you could just take it. Now granted, I'm not really ready to surrender this part of it. Just take the pain. See, we don't want to give up. It's like, say if you're dating and the dating is not going well with somebody, right? You want the pain to go away, but you're not really ready to break up or surrender the way you're behaving in the relationship. You don't dig the job very much, right. It's really causing you tremendous pain. Take away the pain, but I'm not really to surrender the job. I mean, see that's what we do and that's why those prayers are never answered. It's just take away the the pain of it, but i'm not ready. It's the cause and effect, right? The spiritual law that goes into play there. So it says that I have to turn over these two things. And Bill does use a lot of times he's using two things whenever he speaks throughout the book. It's very interesting to find them. And it says we have to Turn Our Will and Our Life Over to the Care of God as We Understood Him. That's all still working fine. Just what do we mean by that? And just what do мы do? I mean how many times has somebody asked you what does that look like? The book asks a question. There it comes. So it says the first requirement. When it says requirement, that's pretty important, isn't it? I mean, the first requirements to get a high school education is you've got to go to school. Right? The first requirement to lose weight is you're going to have to look at your diet. There are requirements in life. And so this is telling us, the First Requirement is that we be convinced that any life run on self-will can hardly be a success. Are you convinced that your life is not a success? Or is it? Because if you're working with somebody and they go, well, I think I do a pretty good job. Then we're not going to be able to get a good third step out of them. You know, you're going to have to ride them. And I'm not really willing to ride sponsees that hard. You know what I mean? After a while, I get tired. You know. You take them through the steps quickly so that you don't have the hour and a half conversations with them. You drag through those steps and you're acting like a therapist. on the phone, right? It's problem after problem after problem because you haven't gotten that psychic change that they need. And so that's what we're working towards, right? So it says on that basis, we're almost always in collision with something or somebody even though our motives are good. So what the book is telling me right there is I can't even trust my motives. Oh my gosh. So you want to take away my self-will and my motives? I just, I got nothing. Man, I am just really, I'm, well, well, I'm not going to ever get a job that I want. I'm never going to get the guy I want I'm just too precious to surrender. See, when the third step is to me it's taken so sure, sure, sur, sur and it's like, well, you're not doing it nor do I. My current agnosticism comes through all the time when I know God will. I so know God'll take care of my sobriety. Oh, absolutely. Charlie's youngest daughter, the problems we're having? Serious current agnosticism. I don't think God's going to take careof it. Otherwise, I wouldn't be in so much fear, right? If I'm going to turn all this over and life is supposed to be just great, then I should look at her. I should capitalize on this problem. I can't breathe in the mornings, okay? There's no capitalizing. You know, and that's what we're talking about is this self-will problem comes up all the time. Now granted, the more I work through the steps, my thought life will be placed on a higher plane. I will intuitively know how to handle situations that used to baffle me. Yes, yes, yes. Will I still have the fear problem? Absolutely. Absolutely. For some reason, I believe the delusion that if I did all this work, and I mean I'm talking diligent work, not just reading the words out of the book, that I wouldn't have fear. I got some fear. So it says, even though our motives are good. So see, I can't even be trusting my motives. So what that line tells me is I must live by principle. Spiritual principle, period. Now, what does spiritual principle mean? You know, it would be really surprising to go to an AA club and have a meeting on spiritual principle and just see how many people in the room know what spiritual principles are. I mean, well, it's be kind and be good. Well, even when trying to be kind, I can't do these things, right? So spiritual principles is surrender, humility, rigorous honesty. sin by omission seems to work better for me right I'm just not going to tell you the whole truth and so it says you know most people try to live by self-propulsion each person's like an actor who wants to run the whole show is forever trying to arrange the light so it's funny because of when it goes into that whole acting role a friend of mine has always used this really cool example he's in the movie business and he says let's just assume you've been hired on as an extra. We want you to just walk past, when the director says roll camera, we just want you to walk past the back scene, right? Like the back part of a movie going on while we have, you know, George Clooney and somebody sitting there talking. You're just supposed to walk by. But what we do is they say action. We walk by and midway go, whoa, cut, cut cut cut wait a second that that lighting it really needs to be changed over here and the director's like who is this person and and you go and you know and the the where they're standing no good and the name of the movie really sucks we need we need to work on this name you know and everyone's like oh my gosh you're just supposed to walk by see that's what we do is we alcoholics, when we get on to page 62, we are driven, selfish and self-centered. That, we think, is the root of our problem. Driven by a hundred forms of fear. See, we can't do that. This is what I like to say. I can't not not say it. How many of you have sat there and said, I'm not going to say anything. I'm going to not say anything and you go, blah! And you go I can believe I just said it. See, you can't not not say it because you're driven by that fear as I am. See, and that to me is alcoholism. That's the part that causes me so much remorse. It's like, I can't believe I just said that. I can'T believe I JUST went and looked on the computer. I canT believe I told my boss that. I can'T believe i told them that secret. You know, I told an unsafe person a secret. Do whatever. ever. I can't believe I told that woman that, you know, whatever aspect of your life that caused you to be driven by that fear. Well, when we continue on, this is the part where we called on page 61, it's called the toolkit of self-will. And this is what we do. It says, when we come around, we're trying to arrange this whole show, right? We got the whole thing, the whole idea of how plans and designs should go on in life. And it says, if only my arrangements, it says his, but I like to put it as mine, if only My Arrangements would stay put, if only people would do as I wished, this show would be great. Don't you know that? Everybody, including me, would be pleased. Life would be wonderful. See, if you people would just do as we asked, I think we'd all be happy you know and that is truly when we ask in the 11th step prayer in the morning it says help me be divorced from self pity self pity is the first thing because you ain't behaving that's what's causing my self pity you people are not doing what I think you should and it's causing me a lot of problems right and see and that cycle we go through over and over and that restless irritable and discontented is so challenging and so it says and when i read this with sponsees i put their name in there you know like if mary's arrangements would only stay put if only people would do as mary wished because we're always reading the third step before we do the fourth step inventory right because we got to know what we're getting ready to look at in that fourth column and so it says it talks about in trying to make these arrangements our actor may sometimes be quite virtuous she may be kind considerate patient generous modest self-sacrificing absolutely i do that role very nicely says on the other hand she may be mean egotistical selfish and dishonest now see what that means is i can always tell when I have a motive now I don't know I have a motive going into everything right it's a disease of delusion so I don' t even think I have a motive that's why I have a sponsor because she's got to tell me what was your motive I had no motive Katie you had to have a motiv because you have a resentment right so here's the deal I go in trying to be nice you don't behave the way I want You get the big, yes? And that's what we do. See, if I come back and go, well, then fine. You see, I had a motive because when the kind didn't work, I came in with the mean. Now, neither one of them is working right. But you get my point. Charlie always says you need to retract the fingers, Katie. And I'm like, well at least I didn't cuss. Yeah, I know. See, I like to keep them off of there. Everybody got the effect. And so it says, what usually happens is the show doesn't come off very well, right? It says, Katie begins to think life doesn't treat her right. Absolutely not. She decides to exert herself more. She becomes on the next occasion two things, either demanding or gracious. I've got to decide because I'm a chameleon. I've Got to work it. I've got to work how this whole deal is going to be. You know, we are so slick, aren't we? As in Texas you would say, slickest snot, man, we are slick. And we don't miss anything. You know we just slide right in there and we are just working the crowd, working the cloud to get what we need. Of course the whole world knows we are but that's what we do. And it says she decides to exert herself more. She becomes on the next occasion still more demanding or gracious as the case may be. Still, the play doesn't suit her. Admitting she may be somewhat at fault. I have a part in this. Have you ever said that? She is sure that the other people are more to blame. See, that's a dangerous place to be, isn't it? Because if they're the problem, there is no solution. If I'm the problem. There is a solution. See, That's so, so important. If Charlie's the problem... I'm going to have to kill him. I am. That's just really my best solution sometimes. But if Char, if I'm the problem, then I am the solution. And that is not easy, guys. That's a painful one for me. So it says she is sure other people are more to blame. She becomes angry, indignant, and self-pitying. And what that looks like is I absolutely can't believe this, right? I am so furious and indignant. I have done so much for them. Can you believe they are doing this? And then self-pity is, nobody understands. This always happens to me. I'm really a good person. Every time. I mean, in 1935, they write a book, How We Behave Today. Tell me that is not some spiritual literature, right? I mean, it is exactly how we behave. And this is what I'm talking about. We do this over and over and over again. Remorseful, coming out every time. I am not going to run the show, God. Man, it's tough. It's a tough, vicious cycle. And I love the third step. It says, so what is the basic trouble? Is she not really a self-seeker? I want you to really look at this word, because in AA, I think this is so misunderstood. The term controlling and manipulated are used entirely too much in Alcoholics Anonymous. Those words are not in our book. Those are therapeutic words. Now, I don't know about you, but if somebody tells me I'm controlling and manipulative, it sounds like I've got power to fix those. Right? Well, I'd just be less controlling. i'll go to an al-anon meeting i'll be less i'll be less manipulative right now don't get me wrong i'm not knocking al- anon but i'm telling you i've done some time and i've realized that 60 to 63 will fix a lot of alcoholics right instead of learning other things and so what happens is the book says self-seeking it means I have a disease of self right so I am a self-seeker doesn't say a manipulator there so I think it's real real important to be sure we're teaching that so it says is she really not a self seeker even when trying to be kind once again there it is now the this is where I think we can all live in it says Is she not a victim of the delusion that she can rest and realize that the word rest is with a W, which means in the 1935 dictionary, it means to seize by force or violent twist. So I mean, I am throwing you down in a throat lock, right? To the satisfaction and happiness out of this world if I only manage Charlie well, right. Am I not a victim of the delusion that I can rest satisfaction and happiness out of the world if I just manage my children well, if I Just manage my job well. Is this all making sense? See now granted, It's like, you know what, God, I'll give you everything but the kids, the job, and the sex. Those are the three things we hang on to. But you can have everything else, which ain't nothing, is it? Now you can't even really give him traffic, right? And so, and then it talks about is it evident to all the rest of the players that these are the things they want. So here we are just snatching. You know, the rest OF the world is just snatching because we are so clearly self-centered, right, we don't think we are but the rest of the world is like i mean have you ever watched newcomers in an aa meeting and you're like going oh my god you'll be sitting there having a heavy talk somebody's crying they walk up and go hey what are you doing hi you're not going oh my gosh are you that out of the loop or or you're sitting there having a conversation and all of a sudden they butt in and we call it story stealing they just steal the whole conversation talk about their self and then they walk away And you go, oh my gosh. And I told Charlie, I go, that's really how we are too. You know what I mean? I am just heightened awareness in seeing it in you. And so I see it really well in all of you people. Don't see it in me at all. So it goes on and on. And then on 62 is the part I absolutely love where it says selfish and self-centered. that we think is the root of our trouble driven by a hundred forms of fear self-delusion self-seeking and self-pity we step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate sometimes they hurt us seeming without provocation but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have placed made a decision based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt let me tell you what that looks like you're at work and all of a sudden um there's somebody at work you really don't like you haven't really had a big fight but you just really don't care much for them and and you and you see them come out of the boss's office and and they look at you and go you're like what are you thinking what was what's that about then all of sudden the boss comes out And the boss looks at you and goes, you're like, oh, I know what's going on. They're in there talking about that situation. I haven't even told anybody about that solution. They've got this whole deal going. Now, I haven'T even walked out of my spot, right? I mean, that, and that's what driven looks like. See, you're driven by the fear of what you just saw. The delusion. You saw something and you're going to, you got to, man it's going down 29 roads, you know. And so it says, what's the next line in the book? It says, self-seeking. I better go put that fire out right now. I better tell Mary and John what's getting ready to come down the pike. Yep, Bill's gone in the office and told the boss about us cheating on whatever and whatever whatever and so we better so then you start the self-seeking mode going right and you're starting all based on a delusion you don't even know what they were talking about and so you've told three or four people and then your boss comes up to you at lunch and says man what's going on man you are acting weird you've been kind of giving me the cold shoulder well you know i know i saw bruce in there talking to you and i i know what's gone on what well i mean i i there's No, there's absolutely, he came in, he was talking about needing some time off. His wife's sick. You know, you're like, oh. Now see, you've already told several people. Because you've taken care of this deluge. See what we do? All based on fear. See, when it says driven by a hundred forms of fear, if you've ever been in a car trying to get out of a moving car, which I know everyone in this room has at least once in their life, You've either been the girl walking down the side of the road or the boy walking down the sideof the road. Pull the car over, pull the car over, and if the car doesn't get over, you know that feeling, right? Your heart starts beating, and then you'll even try to open the door and maybe stick a foot out, right, that is the feeling that we have. I call it a gut punch because it happens, and I don't even know it's happened, and And I am so far into the delusion of this disease that I'm so, we call it, wrapped around the axle. So it says, so our troubles, he loves me so much. Oh, he does. It's really been great. It ain't easy. We almost kill each other with that brother-sister thing, but it's passionate. it uh so our troubles we think are basically of our own making they arise out of ourselves and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self will run riot it doesn't say self will run fighting right a fight you could stand around watch two people fight right oh punch here oh look what they're doing a riot man you got rocks and bottles like you don't know you don'T know where to go in a riot that i i love that word that's a very powerful word because i mean if you're i've never been in a right i've watched them on the news they are scary looking right you don't know where the bullets are flying the bottles are flying you don'T KNOW WHICH WAY TO GO THAT'S US THAT'S THE MINUTE I SAW THOSE THEN WALK OUT OF THE OFFICE I AM IN A RIOT UP THERE MAN and that's what i that's the other thing is when when this program has worked to its fullest Your default setting is prayer. Immediately, prayer. And it's unbelievable, unbelievable how that happens. But you cannot achieve that without the action, action, action, daily disciplines, action. Daily disciplines. You will not get it. You will think, think, thing, think. And then about three hours will go by and you'll think, oh my gosh, I haven't even prayed. I haven'T even thought about bringing God into this problem. You know what I mean? And then by then, I consider you spiritually, you're dug in. And you're dig in so far down that to dig your way out is going to really take a long time. And that's a very difficult spot to be in. Trust me, I've been there a hundred times. And so it says, above everything... Oh, and then this is Charlie's favorite line. Is the extreme example of self-willed and right? No, he usually doesn't think so. There you have it. So above everything, the alcoholic must be rid of this selfishness. We must or it kills us. There's only four words here. God makes that possible. The rest is talking about all the problem. You can just almost skip across that and not even see it. And there often seems no way of entirely getting rid of self without his aid. And then it talks about many of us had moral and philosophical convictions galore. but we couldn't live up to them even though we'd like to that's that incomprehensible demoralization is what we're talking about how many of y'all checked off the list i'm never going to sleep with a married man you know i'm ever going to do this i'm I'm never gonna cheat on this i'm not gonna steal money i'm there you know it just goes down the list well they can also happen without alcohol in your life these same things you start next thing you know start doing a little bit of lying then you start doing little bit cheating because you're not living by spiritual principles because we're not doing the deal that's that was my experience so it says i think i only have a few more minutes yeah okay so then it says um neither could we reduce our self-centeredness much by wishing or trying on our own power if you ever hear anybody say they're working on their character defects they can't they absolutely you cannot work on your character defects see because even when trying to be kind you're going to pull out that that self-will toolkit now granted we would like for you not to slap someone at a meeting that would be a nice step right we'd like foryou not to shoot someone the finger in traffic i mean there are some things we can do but the truth of the matter is what it's telling us here is we couldn't wish it away or try it away we had to have god's help then the book goes into talking about this is the how and the why of it first of all we hadto quit playing god that is a tall order guys it goes into talking about the father and the child the principal the director the agent but this is the line i love the most and this is a line by which i live we said if we sincerely took such a position and this was the position and deal number one that says we're not going to play god i am i am taking a stand today i surrender it says all sorts of remarkable things follow that's pretty cool promise we had a new employer being all powerful he provided what we needed so that's telling you right there whatever you need fill in the blank so i need peace of mind serenity surrender love kindness compassion these are things that make me feel good would i like a nice house and a nice car and the bills paid absolutely but i'm talking about the the peace of mind is what we're so looking for. So it says he provided what we needed if we kept close to him and performed his work well, which means I have to keep close to Him. So I've got to do four through nine to clear away that debris. I've Got to live in 1011, the disciplines of 1011. And I have to do the 12th step. I must work with the other drunk. And it says that He will take care of us. so we kept close to him and performed his work well then it gives us the it gives us the uh the third step promises established on such a footing we became less and less interested in ourselves that's pretty darn good our little plans and designs more and more we became interested in seeing what we could contribute to life isn't that a wonderful feeling as we felt new power flow in as we enjoyed peace of mind oh my gosh just shut this thing up right As we discovered we could face life successfully, as we became conscious of his presence, we began to lose our fear of today, tomorrow, and the hereafter. We were reborn. That's the end of the third step. Oh, I have four more minutes? Do I have one more? Oh, thank you. Okay, so what we've got, so, and we did want to leave a little bit for question and answer if you guys had any questions and answers here, but this is the thing I love. I had done some work in untreated alcoholism. A girl asked me to sponsor her. I couldn't even believe she wanted me to sponsor her, and I thought, oh, well, I still got it. And I am so knee-deep in untreatable alcoholism, I couldnít sponsor a new guy at the Man on the Moon. So I said, well letís do your fourth step. You know, letís go do a fifth step. And so weíre going to do the fifth step, and she sat down and she goes, you want to say the third step prayer? I didnít even know it. Iím 15 years sober and did not know the third-step prayer. and I remembered a big aha and then we did the inventory and I swear all I did was boundaries and boundaries and one other thing which is my therapeutic term I can't remember what it was feelings, feelings and boundaries that was her inventory are you with me on that? I thought I'd get a little bit more of a chuckle on that one there was no fourth column, no self-centered no nothing It was, well, you just need to learn how to do boundaries with them. Yes, yes. And so when it comes into the, and this is all looking back, right? I thought I was doing the best I could with what I had. But boy, I look back and I think, oh my gosh. But when you're looking at the third step prayer guys, that is when you sit down. And the power, I think really comes to the sponsor more than the sponsee. I think they probably feel half the time very hokey and very awkward, but to me it was great. I love the part where it says, I offer myself to thee to build with me and to do with me as you will. Relieve me of the bondage of self. I always see that as me duct taped, just duct taped to my mind. And that I may better do your will. It's always so I can better help someone. Take away my difficulties. Here it does not say so that I'll feel better. It says take away my difficulties that victory over them can bear witness to those I would help. See, it's always about those I Would Help because that's where the great feeling comes in is when I help you. So when my pain is gone, when I make it through some of these trials and tribulations, how many of y'all know that that little sponsee walks up, got the exact same situation, and you go oh my gosh I've made it through this pain and so that's what I love thank you darling and so it says um and so then it goes on and on and one but I love the third step because it is so so powerful but it has absolutely no meaning if stopped there if they don't begin and it says in our book you know that they must at once start the house cleaning process there is no sitting around dinking around because you will not be able to uh to keep this this what i call grace period of what you've just done on awareness in the third step thank you