Johnnie H. – Steps 10-12 Maintenance – The Maintenance of Spiritual Conditions in the Big Book – 2025

Well, I'm still Johnny. I'm still an alcoholic. Only now I've got a full stomach and I hope I can stay awake. I want to tell you a little story about, I talked to you a great deal about how I think the dividing and the jumping off point in alcoholic phenomenon is the eighth and ninth step. I think they're most, I don't think any of the steps are unimportant, but I think the freedom steps are steps eight and nine. And the reason I know that is when Bill Wilson carried a message to Dr. Bob in Akron, Ohio and they got sober and started running around taking care of these people Bill emphasized to Dr., Bob the great necessity of making amends and Dr., Bobs response to that was I've lived in this town practically all my life I'm a physician here I'm not going to go out and air my dirty laundry around all these people who know me. And Bill, like any good sponsor would do, just shrugged his shoulders and said, okay. Shortly thereafter, Dr. Bob went to a medical convention in Atlantic City. And when he got back, he fell off the train drunker than a hoot-owl. He'd been drunk for three or four days. And Bill has his want to do. He picked him up and took him. And the next day, Dr. Bob was going to have to perform an operation. He was a proctologist, so you know how delicate that was. And he was shaking like that. And Bill gave him his last drink. He gave him a bottle of beer to calm him down so he could go do this thing. And after the operation was gone, he just disappeared. And they started to get worried about him. They thought maybe, you know, he was off on another tangent. And later on that evening, he came back and everybody was worried about Him. Lois was worried about him, and his wife was worried about him and Bill was worried about him. And he says, where are you? Where were you? He said, I was out mending fences. That's the great necessity of this step that that step says more that story says more to me than anything that I can talk to you about the very necessity of cleaning up the wreckage of your past. Because I don't know of anything that would be more frightening to me than to have to come face-to-face with somebody that I owe an amends to and have been ducking and dodging and doing that thing. I don't have to walk across the street when I see anybody coming anymore. I don'T have to jump up and run out of a meeting when I SEE somebody come in there that, you know, that I'VE DONE SOMETHING TO. I DON'T HAVE TO DO ANY OF THOSE KIND OF STUFF. I'VE SITTEN IN MEETINGS WITH EX-WIVES BECAUSE I'BE MADE AMENDS TO THEM. YOU KNOW, I'LL SIT IN BUSINESS WITH PEOPLE THAT I'BEN IN BISNESS WITH I've sat in business seats with people that I've had to make amends to, and I sit there just as comfortable and as free as I do in places where I don't. I just can't emphasize enough the very great necessity of the eighth and ninth step of our program of recovery. It's all part of a process, but so many people scrimp on this thing. One of the big fallacies a lot of people make is, I heard a guy say one time that his sponsor told him to put his name at the top of the list. Yeah. And I said to him, what? Put your name atthe top ofthe list? You have never been bad to you. You've always had you first about everything. You show me in this book where it says put your name on the topofthelist and then I'll tell you to put yourname on thetopofthelet. We're not trying to do these kind of things, but it is very important. And then we get into what a lot of people, not me, but a lot OF people refer to as the maintenance steps of our program of recovery. And it starts on page 84. It's where the book is. See, you don't really need any other type of literature to go through these steps but this book. You don't need any interpretation. my impression is I don't want anybody I sponsor to even get near 12 and 12 until they've got to a point where they have done some of these things because I don' t want them confused so this thought brings us to step 10 which suggests that we continue to take personal inventory and continue to set right any new mistakes as we go along we vigorously commence this way of living as we cleaned up the past now here we go again There he is again. He's doing his stuff again. He put... Oh, the basketball game must be over. I'm sorry. Make amends whenever possible. Except when to do so would injure me or others. Remember what I told you You've got to remember As you're reading through this book As you go through these steps I want you to constantly have that thought in your mind Bill has assumed Because it happened to him He has assumed That certain things have happened to you Because if you follow the actions That Bill took These things are supposed to happen to you We vigorously convinced this way of living as we cleaned up the past. Now, you can't commence this way of living if you haven't cleaned up the past I mean, that's the negative It says We have entered the world of the Spirit Our next function is to grow in understanding and effectiveness It is not an overnight matter It should continue for a lifetime Continue to watch for selfishness dishonesty resentment and fear And when these crop up we ask God at once to remove them We discuss them with someone immediately and make amends quickly if we have harmed anyone, then we resolutely turn our thoughts to someone we can help. Love and tolerance of others is our code. And here's the great line, and we have ceased fighting anything or anyone, even alcohol. For by this time, sanity will have returned. How about that statement? That doesn't give you an excuse now for anything because sanity should have returned But what are you talking about sane thinking? What is sanity anyhow? Sanity wouldn't be anything more than sound thinking. It wouldn't mean anything more than sound action, good actions, good reactions to life. Insanity to me would be if I took a drink. That would be pure and total insanity for me being this far in this program of recovery to take a drink I'd have to be nutty in a fruitcake. I'd be completely out of it. And I know I'm capable of it. It wouldn't take very much. It wouldn'T take a couple of ideas in my head that maybe instead of going to six, I could cut down to four. Maybe I would limit the number of people that I'm willing to sponsor. Maybe I'd be willing to sacrifice or not sacrifice the time that it takes with these jackasses that I sponsor. maybe my time becomes more valuable to me than it does to help others it wouldn't take very much and I guarantee you sanity will return because I will drift into the bondage of self and the deeper I get into self the deeper will become my depression the deeper my depression will become the more into self I will be and I will seek relief from that and by this time my answer will not be going to a meeting and getting a newcomer I could get my answer sitting next to somebody in the room when they gave me the name of their doctor or try to sell me some of the prescription that they're taking it's called antidepressants and I don't want to get into that very deeply but I thought I'd just pass it in passing because I believe to be sober is to be sober is sober That's what I believe. It says, we seldom be interested in liquor if tempted we recoil from it as a hot flame. We react sanely and normally and we find that this has happened automatically. How about that? There he goes again. He keeps making these assumptions that these things have happened to us as a result of certain things. Now, I don't see anywhere in here where it says these things will happen to you if we don't do nothing. These always follow some action, always followed by some little promises that will happen to us. You will see that our whole attitude towards liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes. That's the miracle of it. We are not fighting it neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we have been placed in a position of neutrality, safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. Isn't that a deal? The problem has been removed It's gone Bill wrote it and so it has The problem has been removed It does not exist for us We are neither cocky nor are we afraid That is our experiences and that is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition Isn't that amazing? Now this man And you missed the good part. My name's Johnny. I'm an alcoholic. I took my first drink at 8. Well, we shouldn't be too harsh with them. It said 1.30. Did you know that? You can all get up and leave now and come back at 1. 30. But I just can't emphasize that enough. Emphasize that. I just read your whole page full of promises, and Bill goes through this book time and time and time again with assumptions that these things have happened to us, to the alcoholic, as a result of what? Of just sitting your butt in a meeting? Or just going somewhere and doing something or occupying space? No. This is the way it's supposed to happen to you. You're supposed to become spiritually fit by taking these actions. And what actions are they talking about? They're talking about the actions that are outlined in this book. The explanation and the direction of these 12 steps, and the results that happen to them. They look very simple on a piece of board here. They look Very Simple. A lot of people think, well, I don't drink anymore, so I think I'll carry that message. no you ain't carrying nothing but the illness it doesn't say that not at all it says we have to improve on our spiritual condition we have to now we can't improve on something we ain't got I'm sorry I mean I know this is Tulsa but I'll try to bring myself up to your ideas but you cannot improve on something that you don't have. If you haven't done something, how are you going to improve on it? And Bill talks about improving. He says it's easy to let up on a spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. What did he say? It's easy. I'm tired. I've got a birthday party to go to. I've Got Something More Important. A newcomer may want me, but he can wait. and promised that guy I'd be at the meeting, but you know, I've got something better to do. Oh, no, no. That's easy to do that. Believe me, it's easy. Because going out and getting up and working all day long and coming home and cleaning up and going to a meeting, maybe you've got a job, you set it up or make the coffee. Those are inconveniences. Really, to the normal, they're inconvenient. I mean, they just not, you know... Everybody, go out and stand down in a street corner and ask some guy. Want to go out and work 10 or 12 hours a day, go home real quick, clean up, take a shower, run back, set up a meeting, make coffee? Well, he'd look at you like you're nuts. What do you mean? I'm going to sit in front of the TV set. I'm tired of working hard all day. Well, sounds good to me. It's inconvenient. The book says we're headed for trouble if we do because alcohol is a subtle foe. we are not cured of alcoholism what we really have is a daily reprieve continued upon our maintenance of certain spiritual conditions there he is again it's that assumption it's a hidden assumption in there that we have developed some type of spiritual condition it's an assumption every day is the day when we must carry the vision of God's will into all our activities how can I best serve thee thy will not mine be done And these thoughts must go with us constantly. We can exercise our willpower along this line. All we wish is the proper use of the will. Much has already been said about receiving strength, inspiration, and direction from him who has all knowledge and power. We have carefully followed directions. There he goes again. I hate to keep bringing this up. I mean, I hate you keep bringing it up that Bill expects something to happen to us as a result of doing these things. because if they haven't happened to us, we aren't doing it. We are not practicing this program of recovery. If we're not at this stage of our development in this book and this program of recovery, I don't care who we are or how spiritual or how sober we think we are, if these things aren't a part of our daily lives, we have got to start somewhere and start to try to find them because we've missed the boat, made the wrong turn somewhere coming in here. It's a very simple thing. if you're an alcoholic it's an absolute necessity for your life to remain alive that you find and follow these simple directions and it's a necessity and it is an absolute necessities that these things happen to you and if they don't happen toyou and you'rean alcoholic of my type sooner or later you're going to have to drink it's very simple but I'll get too tired sitting in these meetings and everybody in here will become real bad so and so I almost said something, but Susan stared at me. You know, this book even tells you how you're supposed to pray. For those who don't believe in prayer, how can I best serve thee? Thy will, not mine, be done. Much has already been said about receiving strength and inspiration and direction from him who has all knowledge. For every fall in direction, we have begun to sense the flow of His Spirit into us. To some extent, we are becoming God-conscious. We have begun developing this vital sixth sense that we must go further and that means more action. Step 11 suggests prayer and meditation. We shouldn't be shy on this matter. Better men than we are using it constantly. it works if we have the proper attitude and work for it. It would be easy to be vague about this matter yet we believe we can make some definite and valuable suggestions. When you go to bed at night review your day. Now the wording here is another implication of what he's trying to tell us. Sought through prayer and medication nope meditation I thought some of you'd catch it but only two people smiled. Meditation to improve. The key word there is improve. That's the assumption. Improve our conscious contact with God. The key words are The key world there is improved. You can't improve on something that you haven't discovered. How would you improve on it? How in the world could you build a house and not build ahouse and improve on your house? How could you improve on a car if you don't have one? How could you improve on anything if you don't have it? You have to have something to improve on. And this thing says we have to improve on our conscious contact with God. We have to. And it also says very simply as praying only for knowledge of his will for me and the power to carry that out. That's the end of my prayer. The end my medication I can't sit cross-legged and chant for any length of time I've got arthritis in my knees for one thing it hurts and usually when I try to clear my mind for two lengths of time with nothing I drop into sexual fantasies come on I shouldn't bring that up to you spiritual giants in Tulsa. It's true. I mean, God, come on. I drift into something I try to remember. You get to be my age, that's all you do is remember it sometimes. It's an amazing thing to me. Now, where's my meditation? Where do I meditate? I meditate a lot of places. Doesn't necessarily mean I have to sit still and chant or read something. A lot of times when you hear people doing all this kind of stuff. They really think you're really spiritual. They tell you about all the prayers and how they say their serenity prayer when they're in trouble and they do all this and do all that. You know, I meditate a lot of times in AA meetings. You know how I do that? I pay attention to what's going on. Very simple. I pay intention to what's going on my sponsor when I was new yelled at me in meetings. I know none of you have this experience, but you don't have a sponsor as cruel as mine. He told me to shut up, sit down, and stay still. Pay attention. I thought he said that to embarrass me. What my sponsor really did was introduce me to a God of my very own. I didn't recognize it at the time, but he was teaching me how to meditate, unbeknownst to me. I thought he was just being cruel and judgmental and bossy and all these other names we call our sponsors when they have our best interests at heart. And what he'd really done, because really, when I'm sitting there in my chair at a meeting like I sat here last night and listen to them read out of the 12 and 12 and listen for the people comment on the different things, I'm not really thinking about me. I'm thinking about them. I'm thinking about what they said I'm listening to what's read there and in those little brief instances call it meditation but I'm about as close to God as I'm ever going to get because I'm completely without self at that moment now you know the minute it comes time for me to stick my hand up and say something self will return you know I've been a long time I don't go to participation meetings anymore because I don't ever hear anything. And the reason I don' t hear anything is because I'm waiting for them to call on me. And then if they call on me, I sit down and I'm mad because I didn't say what I wanted to say. And if they don't call on me, I'm pissed off all the time. So I never hear anything. So I go to meetings where other people participate and I get to listen. My sponsor told me when I was new that every time I talked in a meeting, it didn't count. That my main purpose was to go to meetings to listen to the small, quiet voices of God. I mean, that's how spiritual my sponsor was. He didn't look spiritual. He didn'T act spiritual. And he didn'T talk about praying all the time. He DIDN'T use God in every other word. Every once in a while, he dropped that word on me he said if you go you go to three meetings a week and i said well i'm going to more meetings than that norm how many are you talking at i said three or four they don't count it's all you're doing is hearing yourself speak i said i'm trying to tell them what i was like and what happened and That takes me back. And he said, yeah, brings you right back to it. You're a wise man. That's why any meeting or anybody who insists on a meeting that you sit down, pay attention, has your best interest at heart. Anybody, any meeting that will tell you that sit down and shut up, don't get up and wander around during the meeting. Nobody wants to see you anyhow. Wander around, because what you really do is disturb somebody else. My sponsor told me if he wanted to go to me and want to listen to my business, maybe somebody else did. I had never thought of that. And he told me that selfish, self-centered people don't ever think about anything like that. So when you see somebody wandering around in a meeting or showing up whenever they feel like showing up or leaving wherever they want to leave, what you're looking at is a very self-centred, self‑serving person. You show me a person who's constantly late, I'll show you somebody that's full of self. they're full of self if you're constantly late you're just a selfish person you're not thinking about anybody but yourself there's times when you can't keep from being late like having a wreck on the freeway or dying on your way to the meeting or something but basically how tough is it if the traffic is heavy leave after a few minutes how tough is that To be somewhere, you know, my sponsor says, being where you say you're going to be and doing what you say you're gonna do when you say your gonna do it is about as spiritual as you're gonnna get here. It's amazing. To improve my conscious contact with God. There's an assumption there that I have developed somehow or other through no effort of my own, through no wishing on my own through certain actions that I've taken that I had some kind of a conscious contact with the God of my very own. it's the most amazing thing that I know every time I get into this book it scares me how much insight this man had the reason he had all this insight is very simple he was an alcoholic of my type an alcoholic of my time he wasn't a heavy drinker he wasn' t a moderate drinker he was not a drunk he was a alcoholic of his time he could not beat this deal by himself he had to have some type of an appeal in his life, discover some type of peace and a conscience and a God consciousness of his own or he was going to have to drink again or go mad. It's amazing. And so for your and my benefit years and years later he wrote his experiences in a book. So you and I have the opportunity to filter out all the garbage and the psychobabble that comes floating into these meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous from everything outside. It's a clarification. When you sit and hear things in a meeting called, well, I've got 90 minutes and 90 days. Don't drink if your ass falls off. Eliminate that. This book doesn't say that. The book says if you don't truly convince you're an alcoholic, go drink. nothing will convince you I remember I was going to a meeting not very long ago and a guy walked up to me he said you're going to talk about God I said yeah probably I'll probably mention it so he shouldn't do that I said why not these are newcomers newcomers may leave on account of God let me tell you a newcomer or something God will run you out of alcoholics and all of us. Whiskey will run your rusty butt back in here. Very simple. Very, very simple with me. You can't run anybody out of AA. If you want to leave, you're going to leave. They tried to run me out of AAA when I came out of penitentiary. They'd never seen anybody like me. There was nobody they knew that was using drugs, had been locked up in institutions his entire life. They wrote letters to New York trying to keep me out of AA meeting. If I come to a meeting, a participation meeting, they'd call me to the front of the room by the time I got there half the room left. They rewrote formats at meetings. Format would be something like this. This is Alcoholics Anonymous. We talk about alcohol in the format. I've never really ever talked about drugs in AA. I've never been anything but an alcoholic since I used this formula in this book to discover what the nature of my malady was. And most of the people who wrote those letters are no longer in AA So if you're armed with the facts, and the facts are in this book, you've got a chance of life. it's an amazing thing but you got to be able to filter out the gobbledygook and the psychobabble and stuff I don't know where it comes from but like this idea about you hear it all the time my disease my disease my disease it doesn't talk about a disease it talks about a malady here we looked it up last night Dave went through that thing we got mentions all the words I don't know it's a big word for me I'm not able to pronounce it it's too deep for me I'm from California where they're crazy out there but that's an amazing thing and that's been pointed out to me in the last year or two that the book or it's come to me from reading the book maybe it's coming to me doing one of these that it doesn't talk about a disease here where did that come from? it didn't come out of this book Who brought it up? Somebody who needed an excuse for bad behavior? That's the only way I can figure it. Well, I'm an alcoholic, you know. I tell you, I was sharing it with the guys yesterday and I'll share it with you because it's a real good illustration about what brings this point home. We have a guy in my meeting that's one of my great grandbabies and he got caught doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing. and he was cutting a few corners like massage parlors and grabbing girls' prostitutes off the streets. He should remain nameless, and all the time he was married. So last Sunday, his wife found out about it, and I can imagine what went on there. He showed up Monday night and jumped his sponsor. I mean, jumped all over his sponsor, You didn't answer my call, blah, blah. So he's blaming his sponsor for what he's done. But as is wont to do, and you can do this if you want to, because there's always these type of typhoid Marys hanging around Alcoholics Anonymous that'll put up with your nonsense. He went over to see this one guy. And this one guys told him that it wasn't adultery, it was alcoholism. It was the disease of alcoholism It's your disease, he said, that made you do it. That's what I'm talking about. If he'd come up to me and said it, what was it? I'd just tell him. You're just selfish and self-centered and you committed adultery. My sponsor, when I did it, my sponsor didn't say it was a disease. He says, you're a lowlife, no good son of a bitch and you've committed adultery. Make it right. either make it right or get the hell out of there one or the other Jesus I went to him for a little sympathy very simple with me that's the kind of people that I was around when I got sober I didn't bring any people that just said oh it's ok do anything you want to do just blame it on your disease you can't do that not if you're an alcoholic I told the guy that told him that why don't you just give him a gun and tell him to blow his brains out. It would have been a lot simpler. Well, that's kind of cruel, isn't it? And I said, no, that is the truth. Not at all. So Bill says to me that having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps promises. As a result of these tips, I've had some type of spiritual awakening. The little doctor in the beginning of our book in a doctor's opinion very simply says to us, that unless we can experience an entire psychic change, there is very little hope for our recovery. The doctor's opinion in the book Alcoholics Now, talking about an alcoholic. Unless we can experienced an entire psychic change there's very little hope for I recover. That doesn't mean putting a plug in a jug and your butt in a seat. Something has to have an upheaval in it. Bill puts it in a different way That having had a spiritual awakening, as a result of these steps, we tried to carry that message to alcoholics. What's the message? As a result, as result of doing these things, something has happened to me. This is what I was like. This is how I am today. This is why this is what happened and this is why I'm trying to be like today. It doesn't say, this is what I am today. This is what I'm trying to be like today. I'm tryng to be a good father. I don't know how to do it very well. I'm tyring to be a good grandfather. I don' t know how to do that very well, can't do it. I'm trying to be a good husband. I don''t know how to do tha very well I'm tying to be a good employee. I don ''t know how to d that very well. I'm tying to be a gud member of alcoholics and honors. I don have to learn that. I have to constantly learn that thing from my sponsor and the people who've gone before me. I'm trying to be a better life. That doesn't mean that I've arrived somewhere. If I said, this is what I'm like today, then I'm telling you I've survived. You hear things like this. What it was like, what happened, and what it's like today. Well, you might be talking about my dog for all I know. What it's liked? What I was like. What happened to me and what I'm trying to be like today. That's the message. What I Was Like. I was a leper. I was what the judge called me in 1956, a blood-sucking parasite in society that had nothing to do with alcohol. Alcohol saved my life. It kept me alive long enough to get here. Period. Never was my problem. It was always my solution. It's my solution today if I get too far away from you. My solution is back here. I know it. Nobody can ever tell me different. I don't ever stand up and say to anybody, alcohol just quit working for me. My answer to that is, then why are you here? Why are you? If alcohol doesn't work, for you. Why would you need to have a spiritual experience? An alcoholic needs this because deep back in the recesses of their mind, the delusion that they are like other people or presently may be needs to be smashed and it will rear its ugly head the day after tomorrow or maybe tonight or maybe tomorrow or maybe an hour from now. Maybe the delusions I just can't take it anymore. Maybe I'm not really an alcoholic after all. Maybe they've been lying to me all these years. That's a delusion. One of the words that really bothers me more than anything else is, I guess I'm in denial, denial, deny. There's a river in Egypt called the Nile. Our book talks about a delusional delusion that we do not know the truth from the false. we think our alcoholic life is the only normal one and unless we can experience an entire psychic change we will repeat these actions over and over and over again time and time again I didn't write it in this book if I tell you something that ain't in this book you got a right to come up here and call me a liar but if you tell me something that help alcoholics that ainít in this book, I can call you a liar. Very simple. You point out to me how it would be beneficial to an alcoholic of my type and it's not in this book, then I have a right to say to you, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Here, the book Alcoholics Now. I didn't write it. It was written in 19, published in 1939 And it was not published to do what it did. I want you to know that. This book was published as a money dodge to make money. It was not publish to wave on the sea of alcoholism and to help people recover from this seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. Little did they know, see that's how much the alcoholic knows about what's going on around them. Our best ideas sometimes turn out to be wrong, but they benefit thousands of others. Bill one time said that sometimes it's always the enemy of the best. There's a passage that my grandmother used to say to my grandfather when I was a little boy, when Grandpa would come back from one of them drunken sprees in Kansas City. She said things like, Will, evil triumphs when good men do nothing. That's what I see in Alcoholics Anonymous all the time. I see whatever it is that's going to destroy us seeping into our doorways and I see people sitting around doing nothing about it. Nothing. And so when I'm asked to talk about the book Alcoholics Anonymous, I jump on it with both feet. Because I believe in it and I believe in AlcoholicsAnonymous. And not so much that I worry about what Alcoholics Anonymous is doing today. I have four grandsons. Four. They're 13 years old and they go up. My number two, number three grandson just got out of the bucket That's jail for people in Tulsa. And I don't know whether any of them ever have to come to Alcoholics Anonymous or not. It ain't any of my business. And I hope they never do. I hope none of my grandchildren or my great-grandchildren or my grade-grade-grade great-great-grand children ever have the chance to go to Alcoholic Anonymous. I don' t want them to ever have come here. And the reason is, I don''t want them have to go through the hell that they have to go through to get here. I don't want that. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. But if they do, I want Alcoholics Anonymous to be the same whenever they get here as it was in 1959 when I got here. I don' t want it to be so garbled and so watered down and so many ideas about, oh, well, that they don't have a chance that this thing will be deserted from the face of the earth. This book will become obsolete like people want it to be, like they keep trying to change it. They keep tryingto change things. They change the stories in the book Alcoholics Anonymous to give you a clue what's going on so they can identify with a certain type of people We're not here to identify with a certain type of people. We're here to just identify with an illness or a malady and the recovery from it. That's what the identification of Alcoholics Anonymous is. It's not here for me to identify whether I'm a Mexican or a white man or a black man or an orange man or green man or rich man or poor man or woman or child. What I'm supposed to identify with in Alcoholics Anonymous is the malady and the illness of alcoholism and the recovery from it. It's the same recovery for me that it is for everybody else. Whatever my lifestyle is has nothing to do with what you're supposed to be identifying with here. Years and years ago, they started a movement in Alcoholic Anonymous called Young People. They've turned that into a fiasco. You wouldn't even recognize Alcoholics Anonymous in some of their conventions. I went to one one night, and the guy sang his talk on Friday night. And then the next night I got up to talk, and they chanted, We love you, Johnny. Yes, we do. We really, really, rarely do. and i told him i said you know making a lot of noise doesn't make you enthusiastic sponsorship and commitment alcoholics anonymous makes you enthusiastic a bunch of guys around here man we get together we just laugh and giggle and scratch but beneath the surface of all that we're dead serious about staying sober we're dead serious about helping the newcomer that's why we have book studies that's Why We Have Sponsorships That's Why They Thought Enough To Bring Me Down Here Let Me Babble On About This Thing I Love So Much This Magnificent Manuscript Called Alcoholics Now It's An Amazing Thing I'll Tell You Sometimes It's So Bad That I Think If You Want To Hide Anything From An Alcoholic You Can Put It In Your Book that's really the truth I told that to a lady one time she told me that she said yeah if you want to hide anything from my husband I put it in the book I told him that he'd never look he never found out whatever it was she put in there it's an amazing thing I go to meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous I hear people get up and thank everybody and everything in the world but AlcoholicsAnonymous that scares me and I'm not thinking about me you know I'm getting a little long in the tooth you know what I mean you know I'm sure wherever I go it's going to survive as long as I'm around here face up you know but there are newcomers sitting in meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous who have need the privilege of being able to sit in and hear about the recovery from alcoholism and the malady here Not, you know, this and that and the other. I went to a meeting one night and all the people who participated before me in the meeting thanked the unit for everything that happened to them. And at the coffee break, I got up, put my coat on, and walked out the door. And the guy said, where are you going? He said, you're the main speaker. I said, no, I only speak at AA meetings. Is this an AA meeting? I said, no, you haven't mentioned AA tonight yet. He left. I drove all the way to San Diego one night. They have a place down there called the South Bay Pioneers, and what they have, they have dinner, an AA speaker, and bingo. The secretary came up to me as I was eating dinner and said, you know, we're running a little late tonight. Do you mind cutting your talk short so we can play bingo? and I stood up put my coat on had these two guys with me and I said let's go I said you can have the whole goddamn evening play bingo if you want to because I ain't going to be here he said what you mean you drove 120 miles down here and you're not going to talk and I said, you bet your butt I'm not going to talk. Call out your numbers. I don't care. I'm dead serious about that stuff. I do not need to be silently proving all the nonsense that goes on in AA or under the disguise of AA. I am not giving silent approval at all. I'm one of them people who'd say what he believed. See, I stand for something because something's happened to me. If you don't stand for someone, you'll fall for anything. I'm getting real philosophical, aren't I, Steve? But that's, you know, I get into this book and I get in to my experiences in Alcoholics Anonymous I go a lot of places, and I see a lot of things. Sometimes I come home scared. Sometimes I can't hardly wait to get into my home group where AA has spoken there. I can hardly wait to get around the guys who are grabbing newcomers and going on panels and doing stuff like that because I've had a weekend of psychobabble and everybody's speaking at a meeting that's not supposed to be speaking at meetings and on and on it goes. And I just, down in the mouth, I'm not charged by that kind of stuff. But yet I get to come to places like this where there's some enthusiasm and strong sponsorship and some dedication to this program of recovery. And man, you know, I get home Sunday night and my wife will say, you got it again. You got that spark in there. You know, it's exhilarating to come and know in a place that AA is alive and well. That there are people who are interested in the book Alcoholics Anonymous. There are people interested in Newcomers and Alcoholics anonymous. Who will take the time out of their busy life to be more concerned with saving people's lives when they aren't hurting their feelings. It takes a lot of guts in an AA meeting just to put that plaque up on the wall and have people read it. A lot of gut. You get more goddamn comments and innuendos about that from the visitors of Alcoholics Online. Just listen to what it says. Just read what it said. I've been watching that thing all weekend. It's amazing. We need more. Showing respect for the program and saving our life, sponsorship having one or being one? Commitment to our home group and its primary purpose? Altruism? What's that mean? See, I stumped you. I knew I'd get you sooner or later. Placing others' welfare above our own. What is it all about? To the visitor, that's crap. That has nothing to do with staying sober. But yet it has everything to stay in sober and giving a newcomer the opportunity to be sober. That's what it's really all about. Jeepers, David. I can't talk to 245. I've run out of catfish now. I mean there's only so much you can say. I mean you want me to stand here and well when I was a lad let's just take a break and come back and We'll, you know, answer some questions if you've got questions. Talk about your relationship with Norm. With Norm? I love it when you talk about him. I've been talking about him all day, how cruel he was. I keep trying to inject a little kindness that he put in there. You want me to bring up this nonsense about him? I had a sponsor. I didn't even ask him to be my sponsor. He told me he was going to be my sponsor. I didn't even know one was. Because when I came out of the penitentiary, all I'd been doing is reading this book. My program of recovery came out Of This Book. It didn't come out of a fellowship. It came out OF This Book, and when I got to Alcoholics Anonymous out of the penitenciary, I had to have somebody teach me about a fellowship, how to overlook the fallacies and the weaknesses and different people and the things that goes on in AA that just I couldn't find located in this book. And so I went to a meeting one night, and he walked up and told me, I'm going to be your sponsor. And I turned back to my experience in our book and couldn't finde the word sponsor in there. And I said, what is that? He said, I am going to help you get things done that need to be done. I said okay, what did you want me to do? he said to me why do you ask me i said for christ's sakes norm you're my sponsor if i can't run my life what makes you think i can run yours and i said then what am i supposed to do he said why don't you do what i do and i asked him the big question what is it you do and he gave me the big answer if you do what i know what i'm doing if you know what you do then you'll know what I do that simple Monkeys see, monkeys do. But you've got to get the right monkey. You've got to have a monkey who's in the herd and not hanging out on his own tree somewhere. It's very simple. You've gotta find one of these monkeys that's doing something around here. You know, and then hook up with him. You've usually got a bunch of other monkeys hanging around to follow him around saying, you want coffee, Dave? I tell you the hail to the chief story. We were having lunch yesterday at Elmer's. Dave drove up, and I thought they were going to jump up and sing hail to The Chief. And I said that. I said, you're supposed to jump off the roof and jump up and sing Hail to the Chief? And he says, yes. I said but the chief is sitting down. Well, that's the way I was with my sponsor. You know what the first thing he ever said to me was? The first direct he ever says to me? Get a job. Go to work. You're a bum. I said, Jesus Christ, I'm not a bum, I am an AA member. He said, no, you are a bum and you are an AA bum. Bums don't work. Then he screamed at me and said, get off of welfare. I damn near hit him. I told him, I have never been on welfare. Don't you ever say that to me again. He said, what do you call living in a penitentiary? Self-supporting through your own contribution? So you think that's funny? He left me standing on street corners because I was standing in a pair of shorts and a tank top. Going to a meeting where it was hot. I was going to be comfortable. When I asked him why he did it, he told me I was an idiot. You behave like an idiot, you act like an idiot, but you are an idiot. Would you go to church dressed like that? Idiot? I said no. You ain't going to my church dressed likethat either. Hmm. I used to call them up in the middle of the night and say things to them. That's when you call them, you know. Which is when they're getting ready to go to sleep. Just to see if they're sincere. You don't have to want anything. You just have to know if they are sincere or not. They're going to answer the phone. You call them at 11 or 12 o'clock at night. Norm, Norm, what do you want, jackass? Some of us have to work tomorrow. And I would say things to him like, Norm! Norm! My program ain't working. He'd say, try ours. they answered everything ours see that's the difference when you hear somebody get up here and talk about their program what they wrote a new one same program 1939 when they got theirs they must have improved it what they really told you is they built one around themselves to suit themselves it's not a my program, it's an our program and if this book says selfishness and self-centeredness are the root of all my problems I've got to get rid of that I kind of idea about stuff, my program my family my this, my that my this they're all just gifts anyhow if you're a sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous. Just fleeting gifts. They're just icing on the cake. If you have all those things and you're sober and busy in Alcoholics Anonymous, they're just icings on the cake. One of the greatest things I ever learned is my children don't come from me, they come through me. They come through. They're not my children, they've just been placed in my care for a while. God gave them to me to take care of for a little while, to teach them certain things. the comfort of a certain thing. Just like I was given to an old man to be comforted and taught a few things when I was new in Alcoholics Anon. That's all. There's not much going on here except that, if you want to know the truth. There's no great mystery to me about AlcoholicsAnon. Not at all. It's just that we're all God's kids. If I am, you are. If you are, I am. If I'm not, you're not. And if we're not, we're all screwed anyhow. So what the hell are we doing here? There is something that goes on here. Let me give you a little exercise, particularly for you people who don't think it's necessary to get here early before the meeting starts, who think you can wander in whenever it's convenient and wander out. You miss the whole ballgame. get to a room some night a room like this where there's a meeting before anybody else gets there and what do you have you have a room just a room something happens when you get here you collectively bring some power with you here that makes this something special a healing commodity to the sick and suffering. Alcoholics Anonymous should never be a showcase for the contended. It should always remain a haven for the suffering. And you go to some of these places, and all it is is a showcase für die Kontende. And when you have a room like this with people like you, you have some type of a haven für die Suffering. That's what it's all about. we should have no qualms about that if Alcoholics Anonymous has given us something but you see, if Alcoholic Anonymous hasn't given you anything you don't have to give anything back you can just visit, take what you want and leave because you haven't gotten anything anyhow but a long time ago somebody said much is expected of those who have been given much and this is my observation if some of you didn't put any more effort into your drinking than you do in Alcoholics Anonymous you couldn't have been much of a drunk it's true what, a goddamn hour and a half a month? that's all you drank? hour and the half a week that's what you did that's how you drank what kind of a drunken are you? Well, that's all the effort they put in there. They don't come in, don't do nothing. They just occupy space for an hour, hour and 15 minutes maximum. It takes them five minutes to get from the car to the room and five minutes To get back to the car and five Minutes to get their coffee. That takes care of an hour and fifteen minutes. Nothing else is expected. If you treated your drinking like that, hell, you got no business here in the first place. If that's All you did when you drank, if you only invested an hour and 15 minutes once or twice a week in your drinking hell I could spill more than that in an hour and a half for Christ's sake that's what I'm saying you know I mean I care whether you like it or not if you want to know the truth I'm going to get on a plane and leave you so you're suffering in your resentments tomorrow they'll be glad to see me at Belvoir Monday. Some of them. But it's really very simple. I mean, isn't that simple enough? I mean look around you. Look around you at the fellowship of alcoholics and others. If people don't do any more didn't give any more effort into drinking than they give to AA what the hell how much could they have drank for Christ's sake? How much could they have drunk? An hour or 15 minutes a week? Maximum for some people. I know people who only go to one meeting a week. I don't think they're alcoholic. I think they may be moderate drinkers or heavy drinkers, which we're infiltrated with. But I don' t think they' re alcoholics. They couldn' t be. If I went to an hour at a half meeting a week in Alcoholics Anonymous, I'd be drunk in a month. Because I don''t want to. Yet he said it last night. Alcohol is the solution for you. You get goofy. the doctor's opinion says we become restless, irritable and discontented not drinking unless we can experience the peace and ease that comes with taking a few drinks don't want to get drunk I don't wanna end up strapped down in four point restraint somewhere high pressure fire hose is going on me I don' t want them electroshock therapy treatments I just wanna have some peace and easy a few drinks. But being an alcoholic, once I take the drink, I'm powerless not to take the next one. Isn't that an amazing thing? And I come to you with that type of a malady and you told me about a book called Alcoholics Anonymous. I said, go get it. Maybe you'll find you in it. And here I stand almost 45 years later, safe and sober. Sometimes not always too sane about it but it's a wonderful thing if you're new in Alcoholics Anonymous I'm not an authority on AlcoholicsAnonymous or an expert or none of that kind of stuff what I've tried to do for the last three or four hours or whatever it is is share my experience drinking hope with you my experience of 45 years and staying in Alcoholic Anonymous and reading this book and going to meetings and trying to help others that's all I don't do anything else It's not my occupation. I've never made a dime off Alcoholics Anonymous. Not a dime. I go to work every day in my job, and I go to meetings of AlcoholicsAnonymous because it's an advocation, not an occupation. It's a wonderful thing. So now can we have a break, David or Susan? I don't know who to ask when she's with you, David. All right, let's take a little break.