Working With Others – Big Book – Tim – Workshop – Neptune, NJ – Part 17 of 18 – Local AA Speakers

Two, Big Boatens. All of the flow. Just throw money, please. We've covered alcohol, it's all Big Boats, right? Where were all you last week, huh? I was here! I was there! It's wonderful, wonderful. Beautiful, I love it. It's like one big happy disposable family, isn't it? All right. So, like you said, page 91, right? Page 91. We're in the chapter working with others. So for those of you who weren't here, which is most of you, the chapter is working with us. It's kind of important to make that distinction. It's not telling other people what to do. It's being superior than others. it's not looking down on others it's working with others and if you're in this thing and you're doing this deal you know it's work if you do sponsorship stuff, it's worth working with somebody who's in the place that needs help you're not just going to skate through if you are doing it right and you are committed to helping other people what's going to happen is that the phone calls that come all the time you're just going to you'll probably hit ignore you know you'll listen to the voicemail and think oh it's that problem again those are the types of things that will happen because it's work you know because by nature we alcoholics are selfish people right we don't want to help other people if it wasn't you know part of like surviving and saving our lives it would be like it would have been an 11 step program really because we get to that point and go, oh good I'm done. I can move on now with my life. But it's a 12 step program. So I want to back up because there's something that's really important on page 90 that I emphasized last week it's the third paragraph where it says sometimes it's wise to wait so he goes on a binge that point right there about halfway down it says then let his family or friend ask him if he wants to quit for good and if we go to any extreme to do so if he says yes then his attention should be drawn to you as a person who has recovered okay that's important stuff right there extremely because it's not this one day at a time thing you know if you're just quitting just for today you're kind of setting yourself up to drink some other day or use some drugs some other day. So we really haven't done a thorough step one. You know, we haven't said, alright, I have no reservations, there's no working notions, I'm done. We're good. Because you get there, oh, but it's really dangerous to do that. Well, it's very dangerous to not be done for good. Like, sitting on the fence really isn't going to do you any good. It's not going to happen. I've watched people do that for years. I watch people not drink just for today for 30 years. And then drink. And you know what their answer was when they did. Exactly. No, you didn't. You were at a meeting last night. You know? Because, you know, any extreme, right? That's what he says. And he says this over and over andover. It's like the motif of the book. Are you done for good? Yes. Will you go to any extreme? Yes, okay. You need God. Oh, God. I'm just going to go to meetings. Okay, good. Go to meetings, and we'll be clapping for you when you come back. And so, you know, he gives some definite instruction. At the top of 90 is the first point, and he's going to repeat this a couple times through the chapter. He says, when you discover a prospect for alcoholism I must find out all you can about him. If he does not want you to stop drinking, don't waste time trying to persuade him. You may spoil a later opportunity. This advice is given for his family also. They should realize, they should be patient realizing that they are dealing with a sick person. Okay, so now here, like that's pretty important instructions, right? For us who are trying to work with others. So when you know the newcomer walks into the room and they're at beginner meetings and stuff like, you know, like don't hyena them like they're a gazelle. You know like, oh we're going to get ha ha ha, you're going over, ha ha ha, it's like, because that's all they're going to do is take off and be like, people are nuts, man, what's the freaking cult over there? them. Okay, so it becomes this thing of like hey, what are you doing here? Oh, you must be in the right place. You're in the wrong place if you're in an AA meeting. Well, not necessarily so. You know, because those outside people who call this thing a disease tell people that a drug isn't a drug, isn't drug, isn't drug. So I just go to AA. Okay, so there's that kind of stuff going on out there. So we as recovered alcoholics need to qualify people. when we discover a prospect oh, you're here for Alcoholics Anonymous I'm here to sell you this program that's all about God right? That's what we're doing so prospect he uses the word prospect because you always get that argument nowhere in the book does it say anything about sponsor okay, well if you've ever done any sort of business work, when you discover a prospective that you're going to bring into a business You're sponsoring that prospect into the business. So it's implied. So let's, you know, not split hairs on stupid stuff. And if you like, you could go have that argument at the bar. You know what I mean? Because that's where you'll end up having it. Okay, so moving over to 91. At the middle of the page there. It says, when your man is better, the doctor might suggest a visit from you. That's pretty funny. though you have talked with the family, leave them out of the first discussion. Now see a lot of that doesn't go on anymore because people get sent to AA. They get relegated to AA, go to that AA thing they don't deal with you there and we as recovered alcoholics sponsoring people don't do this work we don't say are you married? Yeah. Can I talk to your wife? For what? Well because she probably knows about your drinking better than you do you know, you live with your family I live with Mom and Dad. What do you mean? You live in the Bay Area? Can I talk to your parents? Well, what do you need to know? I'm like, well, probably what time you get up, where you may hide alcohol. So let them know you may hid alcohol. You know, those are types of things. Oh, okay. So we're not being thorough with it. That's been my experience. Because people come here and we throw a meeting book at them and we put a whole bunch of numbers on the back and call me any time. Oh, they can't come back. Well, what were they supposed to come back to, really? we need to qualify we have prospects so let's prospect people and say do you want this? and present it to them, this is what we have do you Want It? Okay, if you want it just go over here Chris I'll do whatever I can to help you get there I'll pass on whatever experience I have to help me get there so it's important and then he says under these conditions your prospect will see he is under no pressure you know what I mean hey you don't have to buy this no problem I'm just telling this is how the gypsy night works you know like I mean that's ultimately what we're presenting and then it's up to you do you want to buy it would you like to buy it sure okay well here's how it works and then we have a whole chapter that says how it worked so he will still feel he will feel he can deal with you without being nagged by his family call on him while he's still jittery he may be more receptive when depressed right how often do we hear like oh you know he's depressed I shouldn't bother him well why not you should go and let them know listen you seem pretty depressed that sucks doesn't it well what did you do this time well I don't know and there's I call this kind of stuff front line work is what I call it you know you're going out into the community and and mothers, fathers, spouses, significant others, friends are saying, hey, I need help with this person. They're dying from their drinking. They're lying from their drink. Can you go and talk to them? And then it becomes like, well, where are they? What are they doing? You know, and then there's that old thing of like, you know, don't show, don't give a 12 step call alone. I've done tons of them alone. Tons of them. I've never done a call where I was going to get somebody to take them to detox or to take him to an emergency room because they were violent or still, like, out of their mind. I've ever done that alone, okay? But when it comes to, you know, that feeling that I'm sure most of us in this room had of that, like we just got hit with a truck again, we don't know what happened to the paycheck that we only have, like $1.47 in our pocket that were sitting there and they're feeling a droopy face you know like that's when we need to talk to the alcoholic right then not when they're going hey you know what I just drank last night well what happened nothing still got my job my wife is still there got my car useless I'm gonna talk to those people they haven't hit bottom they got ideas they still got out, they have old ideas. And anybody who's got old ideas is just going to make you crazy. Right? Because all you're going to do is try to draw their fallacious reasoning to them and they're going to get annoyed and laugh it off. What the entire book has been telling us is what's going to happen. Oh, here's some instructions. See your man alone if possible. So let's come to the opposite of don't go alone. At first, engage in general conversation. How about them Giants? They shot this year, huh? Yeah, man. I lost a lot of money and I'm drinking. Oh, I remember that. Because now you're getting... It's not about like, You know what? Your drinking is tearing this family apart. Because we're like, So, who are you? You know? Because that just wouldn't be useful at that point, right? It just doesn't work. After a while, turn the talk to some face in drinking. Tell him enough about your drinking habits, symptoms and experiences to encourage him to speak of himself. If he wishes to talk, let him do so. That's kind of the opposite of, hey, shut up, you don't know nothing. Right? We need to keep, like, hey man, because most of the time, I know my experience was that nobody listened to me. When I was drinking, nobody listened. And of course somebody said, what? I wanted to be heard because there was so much going on in my head and I just thought I was the only person that thought this way I was insane I'm out of my mind nobody here and I would try to talk to somebody and actually you always end up getting that person at the bar maybe or some party they have a half an ear listening and now you're going to tell them everything about there was this time with the cat it's just right and then you're just going to say all this and then you're still nowhere because there was no solution and maybe you may feel better Because you've purged all this crap, and you're like, well, the thoughts are going to come back because we haven't really worked on anything yet. So, and again, you know, he tells us why. You will thus get a better idea of how you ought to proceed. Right? So if somebody's saying, you Know, like, oh, I went to that effing church and they said this and that. Well, don't start talking about religion. Like, don' That's not how you opt to proceed, you know? Because that's done. because all they're going to hear is, oh, another friggin' religious crazy person who's going to tell me that I need to accept Jesus or I need us to get with God over here. He's a dear, you know? That's what's been my experience. If he is not communicative, give him a sketch of your drinking career up to the time you quit. Right? And then say nothing for the moment of how that was accomplished. Right? That's the cool thing. Hey man, because I don't know about anybody in this room but I have some crazy stories remember my nickname right the old nickname what was the old name you know that so you know that came from the stories it came from the things that I did the insane crap I did when I was drinking so if I start telling that story You know, they're just sitting there and I'm like, what are you doing? Well, you know, he had a problem last night or whatever. You know? They call you pretty beaten up or whatever the situation may be. You know. All right. Talk to your wife or your mom or your brother or sister. And I just wanted to see how you're doing. What's up? Nothing, man. I'm fine. Well, we could definitely say you're fine. That's for sure. Right? Well, maybe I shouldn't be here. But, you Know, I don't know. I'd like to tell you about what happened to me. You know how I used to drink it. That's all right. with you, you know. And a lot of times, most of the time, if they're in that place of desperation, of that depression, they want to hear something. I mean, they're probably just grateful that someone's talking to them. You know, because when we're at that point, like, most people stop talking to us. You know? They usually say it in, like... short sentences, like get out, you know, or F you, or where's my money? You know those types of... Right? You're fired. Those are generally the sentences we heard at that point. You know, so somebody sitting there that's recovered who has their life somewhat in order is baffling to a depressed alcoholic just going, what the hell are they talking about? They don't know what they're talking about. They don' t have a drinking problem. And then you start telling them about your old drinking problem and they're like, wow, you have a drinkin' problem. And then they start telling you what you need to do to fix that. That's pretty cool. They do that shit to you, right? Right, so... You know, and then there's some, like, things that we, you know, to assess, right. If he's in a serious mood, dwell on the troubles liquor has caused you. And being careful not to moralize or lecture. Here's what you need to do. Yeah, it's just never that. Is there some extra chair somewhere? There's a bunch of people standing in the back row. come on so and then he says if his mood is light no, no the more the merrier if his mode is light tell him humorous stories of your escapades get him to tell some of his right because stupid drunk crap are funny stories you know like I'll give you half of a story that to me I just still this happened like 23 years ago and I still I'm hysterical when I tell it from beginning to end but I'll tell the middle part right that guy remember remember the guy I told you about who told me hey you just thought everything's gonna clear up you should go give that AA thing a try that guy you know the guy who drove us everywhere he's part of the story right so we were just doing some not so legal things and I'm sitting in the back seat in the middle you know kind of like watching the movie the drunken movie unfold so we got the sober guy driving who was always driving meanwhile it's a big 78 Oldsmobile Delta 88 so it's this big freaking boat thing that we're driving right wow at 3 o'clock in the morning so we were in two freaking speakers three young what are they doing That must be up to no good. So I'm in the backseat with that look, you know. I'm eating my sub. This big sub. Now, I hear this rustling of like plastic. Then I see my buddy in the front. He turns and he's got a five-pound turkey breast. You see that? Now, that's already funny right there. See, I didn't even tell you how we got the five-pronged turkey breast, was it? So now, and maybe it's the summertime too. So he turns to my buddy driving and he's holding this turkey breast and he is waiting for my other buddy to look. So my buddy is driving and he turns and he looks at him and the other one goes takes this huge bite out of it and in one motion launches the turkey out the window. While we are driving now I am watching it bounce down the road now I'm hysterical because I'm drunk enough It's ridiculous, right? So the guy driving says, what'd you do that for? He said, I was hungry. He said... But why'd you throw it out the window? And he said, I wanted to see if it would fly. That's funny drunken stories. You know what I mean? If you start telling stories like that to the guy sitting there in the basement who's vomiting all over him and all that stuff, he's going to start to identify with you. Right? He may tell a story, like, that happened like that just the night people were. Okay? So it's about getting an ally. It's about creating a message of death and wait that will carry, that will grab the attention of that person who's dying. Okay? That's what we've been given. That's yes. Right? Like, I mean, could you imagine that? Like, me telling that story to any drunk sitting there. It really is. When did that happen? 23 years ago. You haven't drank? No, I haven't. Wow, that's, you were crazy, man. I know I was. So it's about, you know, we can do that. Get him to tell someone his. Hey, what's going on? You got any stories like that? What about that? And he'd get, you now, and he'd start laughing. Because it's funny. Right? Funny is funny. So here we go. And Bill goes on. He says, when he sees you know all about the drinking game, right, commence to describe yourself as an alcoholic. Commence to describe your self as an alcoholic. All right. So, what is an alcoholic? Well, first of all, someone who drinks too friggin' much. Right? That's the first thing. It's not somebody who shops too much. It's Not somebody who gambles too much or has a problem with pills. That's not an alcoholic. An alcoholic requires alcohol. Sorry. That's kind of how it works. Right? It's okay. So, then we need to qualify. Listen, when I drink, all bets are off. I don't know what the hell is going to happen. I have no control maybe one night I may have some control but I don't know what's going to happen and then once I start drinking I want to drink more and I want to continue to drink I want constantly to drink I want a drink and I'm on a drink and I wanna drink and I gotta drink and then my body is telling me stop freaking drinking and I am like nope I gotta break okay and that's what happens to me that's where it goes on and then when I am not drinking I can't wait to drink all I am doing is thinking about drinking and I have gone weeks without drinking but that entire time I couldn't wait for that day to drink. I thought about it all the time. I did my work really fast, hoping that day would get here, you know? You know, like, Fred Flintstone was one of us, man. That yabba-dabba do? Woo! You know where he was going. He wasn't heading home. He was heading to, like... Schlepp Rocks Bar and Grill. That's what... That's how... That's the kind of drinker I was. I was an alcoholic, man. I was, you know, a certain type of hard drinker. I wasn't somebody who had one every month. I wasn' t somebody... I know a guy, this is usually... I'm going to punch him all the time, this guy. He'd come to meetings and he'd say, You know, I only ever had three drinks a night. Right? And you know like the answer to that. Most of us say, well, we used to spill three drinks at night. And he would say, I would never have four and I would never have two or one. It was always three. So based on that obsession, okay, that he had to have three or he wasn't right, he considered himself an alcoholic. Alright? So, I don't identify with that because three was just kind of before work. You know what I mean? So, but that's how he describes himself. So there are people that because he couldn't sleep, he couldn'T function properly And that's really what it comes down to Like those people out there That say this thing is a disease When they qualify that The qualifier is Does it interfere with normal functioning Okay And if the answer is yes Then it's a disorder Okay Disorder Okay So That's kind of what we've been looking at When we qualify people when we say, hey, when you drink can you successfully predict the outcome of the evening 100% of the time? And you get smart asses and say, yeah, you're drunk. But do you? Because I know there were plenty of times that I started drinking and I didn't even get drunk. And I was pissed. Because I set out to get drunk, right? Bless you. Then, what it talks about, if when you honestly want to, you cannot stop drinking or you cannot control the amount you take, then you're probably alcoholic. Okay? So if I'm describing myself as that, it makes somebody go, uh-oh. I might be that guy too. It has nothing to do with how many DUIs you have. With all the stuff that happens to you, you may just be an a-hole who drinks too much. And then it is, right? And then once they stop drinking, like, there's still that person, you know? So it really didn't have much to do with the drinking. That's just what they chose to mask that stuff, right? So it's important to qualify that. And then he goes on to describe it more. He says, tell them how baffled you were. Have you finally learned that you were sick? Like, that was a big relief to me, to learn that I was sick, that I wasn't an adult, that I'm sick, that caused me to be an adult. You know what I mean? Like, you know, like, I don't hear it a lot anymore. But when I got sober, it was, you Know, I used to hear it all the time that we're not bad people trying to get good that we are sick people trying to get well. And I heard that a lot when I got sober. Thank God I heard it a lot. Because if I thought I was sick, because that was the message I got all growing up. You know like you're bad. You're bad So my answer was like I'm going to be mad then. Right? People tell me I'm bad. I'm being bad because I didn't think I was bad. I didn' t understand that. Why am I so bad? I mean, we're not talking about when I was in high school being bad. We're talking about what I was like four and five and six, you know, way before I started drinking because by the time I started drinking, I needed a drink. OK, because I was Like, what's going on here? I'm not bad. Why am I bad? Why do they tell me I'm bad? Oh, that's right. Because I'm Not. I didn't take the garbage out or something, you Know, something insane like that. That's really their job. And now they're making it mine. And now I'm crazy. Now, if only I do my homework right, dad won't be mad and I won't get sick. If only I make sure that the garbage gets taken out, mom won't be mad and I won't get beat. Those are the thoughts that went on, okay? That's what happened. That's reality. So if that's what's going on, and now I get that drink, right? I get a sense of ease and comfort that comes at once when I take those few drinks, that ooh-ah-yeah feeling that I get, right, I need to describe that to people because only another alcoholic is going to understand what I just said. anybody who's sitting in the rooms of Alcohol Synonymous and doesn't understand those words that I just said probably doesn't belong here because they go oh I never dealt with that I don't know you know I could just drink alright then you know step over to the nearest bar we'll try some controlled drinking we'll be here I promise right so I need to do this stuff I need give them an account of the struggles you made to stop You know, that didn't apply to me. It really didn't because I didn't want to stop. I never bothered trying and once I had my God moment, once I heard that I'm going to die, I never drank again. Okay? So it wasn't a struggle for me to stop, I was very blessed with that. I know plenty of people that it's a struggle. It took Bill Wilson 15 years to stop drinking. Okay? So when we have people that come in, like let's not get all hoity-toity on them when they keep falling. You know, because it could be us. That, you know, but for the grace of God. For the work that we've done or that we have got. Okay, I can't look down at an alcoholic and say, you're drunk again? I can, I don't know. I can say, oh, I'm not going to talk to those alcoholics in jail. They're in jail! Well, it's only because of God that I'm out in jail, you know? I can make you say, no, I wasn't caught, or I was too smart to get caught, or I had good lawyers, all that crap. but what it comes down to is I'm the same as them that's it, I'm just a different location because there are plenty of things that I could have been in jail for so I need to make sure that I'm that person oh yeah, that's right, you're all a reflection of me and my job is to show you my experience the strength that I gain and the hope and pass on hope to all of you people that you can become recovered that you Can overcome this thing called alcoholism you know there's been things out there in the press lately that's been anti you're never going to get well now okay and I'm here to tell you that's a bunch of crap we get well if we do this stuff we get low we become recovered we become remembered and it's no longer a problem for us so we need to do these things, I need to sit up here and have all of you go like he's really like whack tonight and here's the important part show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree it's not your location it's that oh I went to the Rangers game and I shouldn't have I went to the Mets and the Phillies beat them so I had to drink those you know the planes I saw my ex and I got so mad so I had to drink it's about the people you know, oh I was wearing yellow that day it's not the thing it's the mental twist it's that thing in my head that tells me that cunning, baffling, powerful patient and jealous thing called alcohol that says listen I'm the only thing that works for you so when I'm stuck in those feelings I go oh yeah true okay unless I have God unless I had God My God, yours ain't going to work for me. Mine. Smart. Isn't that great? Oh, and then here's how he tells you how to do it. He says, we suggest you do this as we have done in the chapter on alcoholism. Okay, well, that's chapter three, for any of you who don't know that. More about alcoholism describes all the stuff that I've just been spouting about. And then add the doctor's opinion in there too, because that's what we're talking about here. And then he says here, if he is alcoholic, he will understand you at once. You know, I just said that, right? It's not like if somebody's not alcoholic, they're going to look, oh, I don't know where you're talking. Just don't drink, go to meetings. Get a commitment. No, don't get committed. You know like, it's about this. We need to talk the same language. He will match your mental inconsistencies with some of his own. Right? So my job is to show people that you don't stay mentally inconsistent. That you don'T have peculiar mental blind spots anymore. that there is a way out that is my job right I have to give you hope I have let you know your way is not going to work your way's going to continue to keep you in this basement dying wouldn't you like to go and see the world wouldn't like to see the sunset over the Pacific Ocean playing your guitar wouldn't ya like to do those things God can make that possible and I can show you how to do it here, wouldn't cha like that that's a pretty bold statement But it's true. Those things are true. I've watched it happen. It's miraculous. It's amazing, right? So now here's the big thing, right. We hear this all the time in the rooms, right, I can't say if somebody's an alcoholic, right ? You don't hear that in the room, right . . . Well, I can say . . ." Well, this next paragraph says, If you are satisfied, he is a real alcoholic. What ? I can tell somebody. Well, yes, you can. You know, there's stories in the back of the book that say those things directly to people. It says, you are an alcoholic. We didn't like it when somebody told us either. Right? Okay, so like, be careful what's out there in the room. Get a sponsor who knows this book so you're learning AA, not some FNA, you know what I mean? Like, if you are satisfied as a real alcoholic, begin to dwell on the hopeless future of the malady. Show him from your own experience how the queer mental condition surrounding the first drink prevents normal functioning of the willpower. Because we need to have willpower, it's never, we can't give away our will. It's always our will, always. It's not an appendix that we can take out, oh here's your will, oh I need that back. It doesn't work that way. It's Always Our Will, and we're trying to match it to what our own higher power wants for us and wants us to be. It's never like, I'm just sitting here waiting to see what God's will is for me. oh I know, I'll take it back right? doesn't work don't at this stage refer to this book unless he has seen it and wishes to discuss that you can imagine how hard that is for me, right? and be careful not to brand him as an alcoholic let him draw his own conclusion if he sticks to the idea that he can still control his drinking tell him that possibly he can if he's not too alcoholic. Right? But insist, insist that if he is severely afflicted there may be little chance he can recover by himself. Sure, hey, you know what? You may not be an alcoholic. You may just drink too much. You may smoke too much pot. You may take too many pills. You may not be an alcoholic? I don't know. Does this happen? Does this happen? Well, generally within people who that happens to are an alcoholic. If you ask me, I would probably say you are an alcoholic but if you don't want to quit drinking we can say goodbye and if you want we can talk about the Giants or the Rangers or the Yankees or something. Whatever. Throughout all that statements that I just made, I didn't mention this book once did I? Because those are real conversations I have with people, believe it or not. we're in AA in a big book workshop that's why I'm talking about the big book okay but when I'm out there doing front line stuff and talking to people who are still stuck in their using because believe it or not I do that I don't say oh I can't hang around people who use I can hang around people who drink that makes me want to and I always said well why don't you ask them to buy the first round you know like so then obviously that person's not recovered like I don't have all these promises that have come true they've all come true, all that stuff promise been removed, I'm safe and protected, that's how strong God is, one who has all power, all power that's what boasts all and if I'm trying to align myself to that I'm in no danger God doesn't want me drinking, believe me God doesn'T want me drinking. This is me without drinking. Right? So Phil goes on, he says, continue to speak of alcoholism as an illness, a fatal malady. Talk about the conditions of body and mind which accompany you. Keep his attention focused mainly on your personal experience. Explain that many are doomed who never realize their predicament. See, because this isn't a behavioral problem. We alcoholics don't have a behavioral problem. We have a mental illness coupled with a physical issue. The physical issue is probably the easiest part to overcome for this. And then, as we talked about earlier in the book on page 64, once the spirituality is overcome, you straighten out physically and mentally. Okay? So, we need to talk about that. We need to show that. We need to say, listen man, you're not going to be able to fix your broken head with your broken head. Not going to happen. The best that you're going to do is maybe you'll get past like the first two weeks of not drinking or getting rid of those frigging pills that are making you drool on yourself. You know, maybe you'll get through that. But after that, you're going to be stuck with your head. That's a fun place to be, huh? Whew! And if somebody's stuck there, they're doomed. What a word, right? Doomed. You're doomed, right, right sometimes. So he says, doctors are rightly loathed to tell alcoholic patients the whole story unless it will serve some good purpose. But you may talk to him about the hopelessness of alcoholism because you offer a solution. ah, isn't that great we offer a solution it's right here in this book but the solution is not meetings it's not bowling on Friday nights it's meant to dance on Saturday night you know, it's it's like it's the Alphathon it's about the day of sharing it's enough to spiritual breakfast those are not the solution the solution is God and nobody wants to talk about that anymore in AA people go oh you're going to chase the newcomers out between the talk of God good because then they still have ideas this is the hopeless thing he just said it twice dwell on the hopeless not brush over it by the way this is hopeless pound the hell out of hopeless this is what you can do Listen, I got here the best that I could do. The best that my thinking can do was that less than 22 years old I was in Alcoholics Anonymous. That's pretty hopeless. Right? That was the best that I can do. But now it is the best thing that I know. It's the best thought I can give. Right? Because I'm a member of Alcoholics Anonymous and I carry this solution. This solution. Because I've had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps. I didn't have a spiritual awakening as the result of making coffee. I didn'T have a spiritual awakening as the results of being a greeter, or being a GSR, or being the literature person, or being the secretary, or the leader. You know, those are all great things, and it's an important part of Alcoholics Anonymous, but they make up the sides of the triangle. Right now, what I'm talking to everyone about is the foundation of it, the recovery, because without recovery, the other two sides can't exist. They'll just collapse. We need a foundation of recovery. It all starts from there. So we have a solution. We have a resolution that we offer, right? And then it says you will soon have your friend admitting he has many, if not all, of the traits of the alcoholic. I mean, for anybody who hasn't experienced that, it's pretty cool. You know, when you start talking to somebody and you're saying like, wow, yeah, and they just start giving up. They start surrendering. Letting go. Oh, wow. I'm really asked. And you're like, yeah I got one. You know, because that's when you can do it. That's when you can enter. That'S when you CAN become that instrument that offers a solution. Right? If his own doctor is willing to tell him he's an alcoholic so much the better. Wouldn't that be nice? Wouldn't that be nice if the doctors actually told people they were alcoholics anymore? No, no, take this pill instead. Even though your protege may not have entirely admitted his condition, he may become very curious to know how you got well. Protege. Suspensee. Some of the prospects. Protege, I always like that when that sponsor argument comes up. Protege。 well the protege, the definition of a protege is somebody who is under the tutelage or guidance of a master would you like to call your sponsor Master? because I'm sure in AA we wouldn't mind maybe a vowel with it we'll call you Grasshopper so sponsors start to sound good let him ask you that question if you will I have a question. How did you get well? I love that question. And my answer is always really quick, too. Because, here it is. Important words. I tell them exactly what happened to you. Stress the spiritual feature freely. Because somebody says, hey, how'd you get Well? And I go, done. They're like, what? I'm like, done? I don't understand. That's right, you don't. But if you'd like to, we can talk about that I'll talk about God you're like, yeah, but he talked for hours I've talked for hours, you all know that okay, so and he's telling us, be free with it I love this part he says, if the man be agnostic or atheist make it emphatic that he does not have to agree with your conception of God it doesn't say that he doesn't have to believe in God it says he doesn't have to believe in your conception of God remember I took pains to explain that the chapter we acknowledge was Bill saying hey I thought the way you did too and I was wrong stupid remember okay so here he is doing it again man letting us know again he can because let me say he can choose any conception he likes provided it makes sense to him right so how many times do you go around the doorknob, it doesn't make sense okay well I can make that make sense for you if you want you know that's a conversation we could have offline but if that's going to make sense and the doornob brings you the doernob or the bridge or whatever it is is going to makes sense to you okay well that's good beginning we're not going to split hairs over that because I don't believe that it's not about me, it's about you right now here it is, it' important, more important words italics. The main thing, main thing is that he be willing willing, remember that word right? cheerful choice, eagerly compliant to believe knowledge without proof in a power greater than himself and that he live by spiritual principles that's the main thing when dealing with such a person you had better use everyday language to describe spiritual principles. There is no use of rousing any prejudice you may have against certain theological terms and misconceptions about which you may already be confused. Don't raise such issues no matter what your own convictions are. No matter what your own conditions are, don't raise those issues. It's wonderful if you believe that Jesus Christ is your personal Savior. I think it's fabulous. But don't race those things. Let somebody come to that conclusion themselves. It's a wonderful use everyday language. Not me, not human. Next Anybody want to argue with that? I mean, really, right? That's easy. That's an easy starting point because that's where we're at. We're not with people who are sober 20 years and they're still arguing on God's point. We're talking about people who are dying. That's what this is about. Okay, your prospect Oh, the prospect again may belong to a religious denomination because religious education and training may be far superior to yours. In that case he's going to wonder how you can add anything to what he already knows. But he will be curious to learn why his own convictions have not worked while yours seem to work so well. He may be an example of the truth that faith alone is insufficient. Faith alone. It's wonderful, right? To be vital. Oh, there it is again. Necessary for life. To be necessary for life, faith must be accompanied by self-sacrifice and unselfish, constructive action. I thought it was a selfish program. Right? It's got to be accompanied with self-sacrifice. I need to do these other things, or else I'm not going to survive, right? Let him see that you are not there to instruct him in religion, right, admit that he probably knows more about it than you do, but call to his attention and here's the important part right here. the fact that however deep his faith and knowledge, he could not have applied it or he would not drink. Perhaps your story will help him see where he has failed to practice the very precepts he knows so well. Now here's some, before I get to the controversial thing that's on the next page. I have a very broad, deep education in a particular theological system I know it very well I don't get into that sort of arguments with people when they're trying to get sober my answer is maybe you should go explore that and I use that sentence right there You know, that's great. It's fabulous that that's what you believe. But obviously it's not working for you or you wouldn't be drunk. Because that's What we're talking about. We're talking about relying on that. If that's what you have and you rely upon that the way you say that you do you're not going to be drunk because every theological system in the world has that as its main strength that if you rely on whatever particular deity that they're presenting to you all of your problems will be solved and that's what we're presenting in Alcoholics Anonymous the one who has all power one, solve all your problems so then he goes on and he says this here we represent no particular faith or denomination we are dealing only with general principles common to most denominations which is important to note because for those who don't know Alcoholics Synonymous has its roots in the old Oxford groups which was a Christian based movement and Bill being anti-Christian can groove with that so that's where they went to, and then there were people who even less, you know, that's as we understood him from, let's get the God thing all this stuff, but here's what's even more important here when Bill met with Dr. Bob on Mother's Day that year Dr. Rob was kind of ambivalent about listening to him because he'd been going, Dr. Bob had been going to the Oxford groups for about two and a half years at that point. Okay, so he knew that the solution to his problem was something spiritually based. But it wasn't working, right? And Bill kind of pointed that out to him. He's like, yeah, yeah. You probably know more about the religious thing than I do. It's obviously not working. you know, so then we know that that conversation went on for another five hours five hour conversation, amazing so that pointing out like listen we're not going to split hairs over that because then he tells us what we need to do here in 94, outline the program of action it's a program of action, it's not a program of discussion, it' s not a program of reading. It's not a program of studying. It' s a program of action. We need to do these things. I sponsor a guy. He calls me up and he uses voice messages, which are entertaining most of the time. But he's just shaking his rattle at the world. That's what he's doing. Hey! I'm like, well, I told you to do something. This isn't somebody who's new. I'm very fortunate right now where I'm sponsoring a guy who's sober seven years and I'm sponsoring another guy who's recovered 11 years. So, I'm like, oh, thank you. I get a break for a minute, you know? So, you would think with that kind of experience that they would know that the answer to their problem is the Goya program as I like to call it. Right? Do you know the Goy... Yeah, see, Chris knows, right? That's old school, right? Get off your ass. Right? That's the Goyo program. Because you can't just... and I've been talking about this since I got here, right? You can't get thin just going in the gym. You gotta work out. Right? So I don't understand why people think they can just stop drinking and come to a room full of other people who don't have power themselves, get some power, and not drink for the rest of their lives. Well maybe they could do that if they're not too far gone, if they'RE not beyond human aid, or not too alcoholic. But if you're hopeless alcoholic the way I am, a real alcoholic, beyond human aid, you need this solution. And you need to constantly go to God. And listen, I don't walk around levitating and I don' have God with me all the time. But I know that when I'm struggling, when I'M struggling with my head that's telling me, AHHHHH! THE LIGHT'S GREEN! Then I need to say a prayer. Oh, that's okay. Maybe it's been, you know, and then maybe I see an accident and think like, well, thank God they didn't go. You know what I mean? When I'm in a hurry. You know, like I get a, whoa man, alright, I'm supposed to be late. No problem. Maybe being late saved my life. Who knows? I don't know and that's the point. I don' t know. I don''t know. So the spiritual program of action, explaining how you made a self-appraisal. Step four. How you did that. How you straightened out your past. Step nine. Why you're now endeavoring to be helpful to Him. because if I don't do that I mean that why I'm doing this is way back on 14 and 15 if an alcoholic fails to perfect an enlarged spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice for others he will not survive the certain low spots and trials ahead right, you know the antithesis of keep coming back to get better no it gets worse right most of us have a sobriety problem we don't have a drinking problem drinking was our solution it's when we stop drinking that we've got a problem lots of them how are we going to deal with that with a crazy head can you drink oh no I know I could go to the doctor I have some anxiety give me that pill it's prescribed I'm sober shut up it's important for him to realize that your attempt to pass this on to him plays a vital part in your own recovery vital, necessary for learning actually he may be helping you more than you are helping him make it plain he is under no obligation to you that you only hope that he will try to help other alcoholics when he escapes his own difficulties Now, it's important for me to point that sentence out, you know, because you have, like, egomaniac newcomers that say things like, well, I'm helping you more than you're helping me. Right? Shut up. It's just, it'S about respect. you know like when I got sober you know I tell stories about when I got sober because AA is different now for me my experience is that AA is different than it was when I Got Sober we weren't on a membership drive when I got sober there was no keep coming back would love you till you learn to love yourself it didn't go on there wasn't even circles when I God Sober now we make a circle you just grab the hand back then you know there wasn't any thank you for sharing was in my time that came over from our sister fellowship people would just say thank you and I was able to move on so things have changed throughout AA and the respect for people with time doesn't exist anymore I've watched it I've watch people talk to people who are sober over a quarter of a century like they just walked through the door it's disgusting if you're new please, give people respect they're here to help you right? You don't have to like them if you don't like them, don't talk to them that's nice. You know, you may come here and not like me. That's okay, don' t talk to me. But I'm still going to keep coming and trying to help ya because everybody who is sober with any sort of time is doing that. It's vital to our own recovery so you need to like Ante up and get in the game. And if you want, if you love what we have, if you've decided you want what we had and you're willing to go to any lengths to get it, then you're ready to take certain steps because we already did. That's why we have this. So that's where we're going to stop this week and then next week I'll be back and hopefully finish up the chapter working with others. Thanks. Thank you.