Why Tradition 4 Is Not a Veto Power – Billy N.

will uh open up at the serenity prayer god grant me the serendipity to accept the things i cannot change the courage to change things i can and the wisdom to know the difference welcome on monday night 9 pm eastern 6 p.m pacific and everywhere in the middle um so welcome we're going through the 12 traditions at this time um if you missed any of the earlier ones they are either in the private facebook group which is you will not be able to find if you search for it because it's private and hidden so it's super anonymous um if you send me a friend request you can send me a message or an email i will put my you could text me whatever we could make sure that you could send me a message on facebook and we can get you in that group um i'll put my email as well if you don't have facebook we do have a youtube link that we can then send you that and that automatically updates every time there is a new uh meeting added to it um if you've heard documents jen already put a bunch of stuff in the chat of documents she's going to refer to tonight um if in the past you've read the documents that have been referred to or pieces of literature or something from our history all you got to do is send an email or a text you might not get it right away but eventually we will get to it and send it to you um we are on tradition four tonight um and i have jen s from the soul purpose group in portland oregon who's gonna speak for a little tonight too um i hate to even read the short form of the fourth tradition but i will just to be complete the short form each group should autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or as a whole the fourth tradition long form with respect to its own affairs each aa group should be responsible to no other authority than its own conscience but when its plans concern the welfare of neighboring groups also those groups ought to be consulted and no group regional committee or individual should ever take any action that might greatly affect aa as a hole without conferring with the trustees of the general service board on such issues our common welfare is paramount so a couple things i'll say before jen starts i always say to people whatever today's date is what is today's date april 6th so it might be by tomorrow april 7th but safely in the next three months you'll be minding your own business sitting in some meeting or some business meeting or somewhere and you're going to remember this night because you are going to hear somebody say or use out of context the fourth tradition they're gonna like pull out a tractor trailer and back it over completely at least three of the other traditions maybe all 11 depending on how good a job they do um and you know i just want to say that like sometimes every once in a while i'll get an invitation to speak and the invitation will ask me we want you to tell like we want you to go step one tradition one concept one and we want you to talk about the parallels between each of them and I always have to say I'll be glad to do that if I can give a disclaimer that is completely out of my ass my own opinion that i'm making it all up as long as you're okay with that i'll gladly do it but it is so important to know that the steps were written vertically the traditions were written vertical and the concepts were written vertically there was no thought to the other set of principles when it was laid out what one was in each or four was in each and as they were written vertically all 12 traditions are even they're equitable we might say you know that the first is a first among equals the first tradition but the other 11 are a way to keep our unity but tradition 4 was never meant to ever apply to any of the other eleven traditions it is not some kind of veto power it is not anything like that and that it's also important to really understand the word own your own affairs you have to like it's about your business and your business might be anniversary cakes whether your group pays for anniversary coins or god knows what else but what it is not is anything that applies to a group conscience that you don't control my group is the primary purpose group in palm beach gardens florida the next international convention is in st louis nothing against anybody from st louise here or any of my friends i have lots of friends in st luis but if you want to come to my home groups business meeting it's the third thursday of every month following our 7 a.m meeting maybe we take a vote we don't like st louis it's the middle of the country there's no beach there's not a lot of like extracurricular activity like we want it in miami and we take a vote and then we call the general service at office and they're like hey you know we're going to change this and they'd be like nope you don't control that group conscience and so when you try to apply the fourth tradition to other traditions you don't own that the general service conference doesn't even own that the aa groups own the traditions and so it's just important to understand in the context of history of what the fourth edition was for so with that i am going to gratefully and i'm very thankful she showed up tonight turn it over to jen from the soul purpose group thanks jen oh absolutely thanks billy my name is jen i'm recovered alcoholic my home group is a sole purpose group we meet thursday night 7 p.m we're a big book step study and if you're ever in the portland area please come check us out we would love to have you uh i also have a three legacy sponsor i'm beyond blessed to be a three legacies sponsor um and i also get to service sponsor others i see a couple of them in the room super stoked about that uh trying to raise them up right right because i was not raised up right and i'll tell you so my sobriety day is june 6 1998 and i don't share that so that you can be impressed by me or my length of sobriety because i can tell you from much personal experience the length of one sobriete does not dictate or determine how spiritually fit someone is so uh my very own sponsor will lovingly tell you that by the time she found me oh i'm not sure about how long ago five years ago give or take her words not mine i was crazy as as a loon by the time I met her with 23 years of sobriety. And it was from her actually taking me through the traditions that allowed me to have a spiritual experience with the traditions of all things that then led me to her taking me through the clear-cut directions laid out in the big book about Alcoholics Anonymous. And that has me in a place where I can refer to myself as a recovered alcoholic, where I can refer to myself as happy, joyous and free. And where I can carry a message of depth and weight. And we should all be grateful Jen is carrying a message of depth in white today because it is much better than the non depth filled weight filled method message she was carrying before. So before I launch into tradition for I really want to thank Billy, it kind of actually it's funny when you started talking, I got actually a little emotional because this is one of the places i came to start like learning about the traditions and the service structure i was a gsr of my home group and was an epic failure that position i'm currently serving as the oregon area alternate chair and as a result of strong sponsorship billy included in all that uh i'm actually a valuable member of my home group of my district of my area and yeah i'm just really grateful to be talking about tradition for tradition for it's one of my favorites and specifically i definitely i'm going to get to it is the difference between autonomy and consultation so i'm actually i've got lots of literature i posted some stuff in the chat um there's a link if you click on it it will actually take you to a google doc that has every piece of literature i reference the quote the page number all of it you're welcome um i'm going to start with actually a funny one uh is asville sees it so my my favorite quote from as bill sees it is page 105 and it's from a letter that that bill wrote in 1942. i'm just going to read the first sentence our chief responsibility to the newcomer is an adequate presentation of the program and that is how i sponsor that is how I teach these principles and I think it's really important and so as I mentioned in my introduction I have a three legacy sponsor and I also am a three-legacy sponsor which means those I sponsor get an adequate presentation of the program today and regardless of where you are at in your sobriety and recovery whether you're a newcomer an old timer or somewhere in between um if you're just beginning your study of the traditions welcome and congratulations because it absolutely changed my sobriete and my life so without without further ado so in regards to tradition four Or I'd like to take you off, you know, beyond those words that you see on the wall, right? Like Billy was talking about, I kind of cringe a little when I read the short form. But it is what it is. So let's look at that. So I'm going to read it. So I am going to reference a lot the AA group pamphlet. Such a great tool. Tradition for a short form, each group should be autonomous except affecting other groups or AA as a whole. So in the dictionary, autonomous is defined as independent, not subject to the rule or control of others. So let's pull out the word autonomous from that short form tradition and plunk that definition in. So it says each group should be independent, not subject to the rule or control of others but again accept in matters that are affecting other groups or aa as a whole so in other words you know while my group is independent this tradition asks my group to also be mindful to not do anything that might step on the toes of my fellows right Right. So let's go and read long form like, let's go in a little deeper dive so I and this is the a group pamphlet has short form and long form it's in the back long friends on page 44 with respect to its own affairs right Billy mentioned that things that we own right our own affairs a groups affairs each a group should be responsible to no other authority than its own conscience. But when it's plans concern the welfare of neighboring groups also, those groups ought to be consulted. No group, regional committee or individual, me the individual, should ever take any action that might greatly affect AA as a whole without conferring with the trustees and the General Service Board on such matters and such issues, pardon me, our common welfare is paramount. The other one I want to reference real quick, too, is I have my 12 traditions illustrated out here. So where am I at? So it's the end of the first paragraph in each neighborhood and every part of the world reached by AA. The local group is free to work out its own customs. And even in the big book, the big book in the forward to the fourth edition page XXIV, it reads while our literature has preserved the integrity of the AA message sweeping changes in society as a whole are reflected in new customs and practices. Right? So it talks about our own affairs our own conscience our own customs and practices and that's a lot of ownership, but what does that even mean? So Tradition 4 does is it grants my group the freedom to choose and take ownership of our own customs and practices. Billy gave a few. I've got a few listed for me here. So like my group, we own our meeting format and our script, right? So do we want to be a discussion meeting or a speaker meeting, a beginner meeting, or in my home group's case, a big book step study, right? Do we want to begin and end our meeting with like a moment of silence, prayer, meditation, a quote from AA literature? Will our meeting be an hour long or 90 minutes? You know, how long will a share be? Will we use a timer? Will Jen listen to the timer and immediately stop talking when it goes off? Well, it depends, right? Is that our group's custom that when the timer goes off that we ask those sharing to, you know, please shut up or quickly wrap up. So things like coffee, tea, birthday cake, coins, you knows, these are all examples of customs and practices. Seventh tradition. Seventh traditions. So what does my group want to do? What's our custom and practice for seventh tradition? Like, do we have a prudent reserve? Do we want to set aside three months rent or three months of total expenses that include literature, coins, coffee, other things like that. When it comes to the distribution to AA service entities, do we want to have a set percentage pie chart? Or do we wanna review the financial reports for GSO, area, district, intergroup and contribute according to who's in the greatest need of our financial support? rather than a straight percentage right so there's another example of a custom or practice that allows us to be autonomous and make choices for ourselves however that autonomy that independence not subject to the rule or control of others does not mean though that my group has the total freedom to say reword the 12 steps or read or sell non-aa literature in our meeting nor does it grant my group the freedom to format our aa meeting to say have a dual purpose or focus on drug addiction or anything other than alcoholism so a a group pamphlet um you know i don't know if you noticed but when i read the short form i think billy pointed it out so it was probably very obvious the word autonomous was in the short form i don't know if you noticed when i read the long form there was no mention of autonomy so uh turn into page 18 this is another good little bit of information right so here's where we shift from autonomy to conscience and consultation. That is what the long form mentions. On page 18, it talks about AA's primary purpose of any AA group is to carry the AA message to alcoholics. Experience with alcohol is one thing all AA members have in common, right? It's misleading to hit or give the impression that AA solves other problems or knows what to do about drug addiction. So I have a couple experiences that, um, I would like to share. So the first one is from, uh, from a previous home group conducted a group inventory. My sponsor is Carrie. A lot of you guys probably know her. She was, this was before she was my service sponsor and she was actually the one that conducted our, our group inventory and we used a list of questions that were from the AA group pamphlet. They're on page 29 and 30. And the first question is, what is, I mean, it's the most basic question ever. What is the basic purpose of our group? I now fast forward five years, I actually facilitate a fair amount of group inventories anywhere from one to two a month. And this still goes to be the most difficult question of all the questions in the list. And we couldn't agree. We couldn't agree on the most basic question of what our group's purpose was. Additionally, there were lots of concerns about things like the number of addicts sharing in our meeting and things other than alcoholism. And after we completed that group inventory, we were given a list of considerations from that facilitator. And one of those considerations was asking us to consider what is our identity? Group members have different opinions as to what the group's purpose is. Is your group an AA group or something else? If you're an AA Group, how can you get on track with a singleness of purpose and primary purpose? And if you're not in a group, should you look into becoming a group with a broader purpose such as all addictions anonymous? I don't know if you guys know this, but there are over a hundred other 12-step fellowships. AA is super gracious and giving and sharing with its 12 steps. So the second experience was a couple of years ago as I was facilitating a group inventory this time, I was growing up a little bit and it was here in Oregon. And I have a few different sets of group inventory questions that I can provide groups. And if they don't already have like inventory questions of their own that they want to use. And this group used the set of questions that I have that's based on the 12 traditions. And tradition four question reads, does our group do anything that does not conform to AA's principles and or that may affect other groups or AA as a whole? Now, this group that I was facilitating the inventory for, they met three nights a week. One meeting format was a topic discussion. The second was a big book study, and the third was a women's meeting. And it was mentioned that a man had come into the women's meetings, and they'd asked him to leave. And the member asked if that was okay, and I said, well, let's consult our trusty AA group pamphlet, right? So we all turn to page 12, and it's about two-thirds of the way down. It says some AAs come together in specialized AA groups for men, women, young people, doctors, LGBTQ+, and others. If the members are all alcoholics and if they open the door to all alcohols who seek help regardless of profession, gender or other distinction and meet all the other aspects defining an AA group they may call themselves an AA Group." right? So it was amazing. No one had ever heard of that, had ever thought about that, had ever given it much thought. And so they had a lot of healthy discussion about all their thoughts, feelings, and opinions about that. And I just, I love being able to one, like help groups articulate their thoughts, feeling, and opinion, but also reference literature, right? Literature that is very clear about what AA is and what AA is not. So one thing I'm going to read for you too, that Billy made a little reference to it, I think earlier. It's actually a keynote address from the 67th General Service Conference Report. It says, AA leaders have a sacred duty to above all else, embrace all 12 traditions. I do not believe we should ever look for a way around a tradition. I firmly believe you can't ask a newcomer to observe one tradition while you ignore a few others. I believe it is time for many in Alcoholics Anonymous to stop using the fourth tradition to break the other traditions. History shows that the fourth tradition was not created to be a veto over the others. Rather, it was created to give groups flexibility regarding group customs. If any group breaks a tradition, it is affecting other groups and AA as a whole. And I just love that. It's like such a great nutshell. So when we look at the AA triangle, it's important to remember that it has three sides for a reason. The steps are on one side. That's the first legacy of recovery. On one side, the traditions, our second legacy of unity is on another side and the concepts, our third legacy of service is on the other side. The 12 steps are AA's message. It's the only message that we've got. That' s it. It totally honors that singleness of purpose. And the 12 traditions protect that message, which is why I love to see all these people here studying and learning and hopefully later on teaching and practicing all these traditions. And then of course there's the 12 concepts too, which then perpetuate that message. And being autonomous means my group is free to make decisions for our group, but it doesn't mean we get to make decisions for other groups or AA as a whole, nor does it grant us the freedom to go against the group conscience of U.S. and Canada. And there's probably someone going, whoa, whoa. What are you talking about, Jen? U. S. U.s. and canada group. What Are You Talking About? Well, that is what I said to my service sponsor when she made that reference, the group conscience of US and Canada. And she explained all AA conference approved literature has gone through the lengthy and painstaking conference approval process, similar to that of an informed group conscience at my home groups business meeting, only it wasn't discussed and voted on by just my group, but all the groups throughout US and Canada. So if my group decides to, say, reword the 12 steps, we're going against the group conscience of the United States and Canada. And that's not unity. It's my group saying, well, we know better. And That attitude will affect other groups or AA as a whole. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but as experience has shown, inevitably it will. And that being said, we cannot forget, I'm going to read a little bit, little line from the 12 and 12, page 147. Let's see. Tradition four also grants every group the right to be wrong. We're human, right? We're all learning. We will make mistakes, and some of you may have noticed nowhere in the long form of the tradition does it mention autonomy. Instead, it talks about conscience and consultation, and while we will make mistake so long as my group's autonomy is led by a well-informed group conscience and consultations, we can often forego and or make amends for our mistakes so and when I talk about consultation what I mean is like you know if we're looking at you know changing our our you know format of our meeting to another type of meeting have we looked because my home group we actually meet in an Alano club have we looked around at neighboring groups are we going to be stepping on their toes because we're going to be doing a similar format to theirs again we don't have to have their permission it's not about that it's about that we're all in the sandbox kind of playing together and let's make sure that we all get along so whether that consultation is a neighboring group um whether it's um gso a literature my sponsor you know our group's conscience you know which is essentially god speaking through the group conscience there's lots of opportunities for consultation and if we're doing our own step work and if my group conducts say a regular group inventory and if the group practices the spiritual principle of consultation with other groups tested servants our district our area and most importantly my group has a well-informed group conscience uh the a group pamphlet has an awesome description of a well-informed group conscience on page 28 then hopefully we will learn from our mistakes and when we know better we'll do better and let's see there's a couple other things i wanted to reference when it comes to consultation ways to go about that so as i said group inventory it's actually page 29 if we hold regular business meetings it talks about that on page 30 page 31 talks about safety and aa if we understand how our groups relates to aa as a whole that's page 32 through 38 and if we study and understand and discuss the three legacies as a group, that's page 40 through 49. That's like half of the pamphlet right there. So I know I threw a lot at you today and hopefully some of it stuck, but if it didn't, I'm going to leave you with one wonderful takeaway. Found in 12 Traditions Illustrated, fourth tradition is like the fourth step. Suggests that an AA group should take an honest inventory of itself, asking about each of its independently planned actions would this break any tradition so let that be my parting gift to you consider it spiritual homework for your home group uh and last but certainly not least i want to thank billy again for all of you for allowing me to be of service today i'll turn it back over to you billy thanks jen we will get some questions in a little bit um but thank you very much you know i want to leave you know pass along a story too like jen had that um so we all know that the preamble changed not too long ago and this people have strong feelings there's people who could care less and then there's people who you either did the best thing for aa ever or you're destroying a like that's basically the three groups of people in a care less you're killing a this is great and um you know i really it doesn't matter how i feel about it but it's just not something that really got me going to just be perfectly honest but it's long change now um i think what probably bothered me more was like the background about it you know like i heard people talking about that we needed to change the preamble for inclusion purposes almost making it like it was written to be exclusive and that kind of just bothered me because from an historic point of view one of the reasons that they separated out men and women in the preamble was because women had just been given the right to vote and there was still questions about whether women should be aa members and so it was never written and so when i would hear some people talking about it like we gotta correct this big error and cancel i was just like well that's just not true you know regardless whether you like the new one or the old one And, you know, it was written to make sure that women knew they had a place in AA. And then, you Know, in today's world in AA, we hear a lot about floor actions, you know, we here under the new conference guidelines, you know, a lot of restrictions around floor actions and sometimes people talk about that floor actions are bad and I'm all for the conference process, but i have to remind the people who are out there saying that floor actions are bad that the preamble came from a floor action not only a floor option a floor actually made by a staff member not an area delegate so it's just kind of hypocritical to me when i hear people in the bottom of the triangle be so anti-floor action and i'm like wow you know some good things came from floor actions but be that as it may i was at a big men's uh a gathering in the middle of some place in texas and uh on friday night or saturday night i was up front getting ready to speak and they asked a young kid to read the preamble and he got up to the microphone and he said whatever his name was and he said Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of people and as he said people about 50 guys from the back screamed out men and women right to kind of drowned him out and after that night and listen these are active passionate three legacy members and and later that night we were out by a fire smoking cigars and someone asked me they said bill you know what do you think i said well it really doesn't matter what i think it's the group conscience of alcoholics anonymous now of the united states and canada like that's the group conscience i said and if you think you can change the group conscience then shouldn't everybody else be able to change whatever they want like does this mean if you get to change the preamble that the person who reads how it works gets to insert or change new words delete words change things like like part of being sober is trying not to be a hypocrite which is a hard thing for any of us but for the unity of alcoholics anonymous what am i going to say only i get to change a literature you have to read it exactly as it is but I get to decide so it's just so important you know um the respect of the group conscience is is so important so we will do what we've done in the past which is if you have your camera on and you would like to share for two minutes and as I say every week I always hope somebody that like I know really well is the person because it's better to shut down somebody who everyone knows that you know when they go over the two minutes because then somebody who i don't know can't say i'm just picking on people that are not my friends so i just let everybody know up front that two minutes is two minutes that's just the way it goes and this is not four questions questions can be sent into the chat to me but if you would like to share um a couple of minutes two minutes on your experience with tradition four please raise a virtual hand and i will call on you derek from calgary i am going to unmute you in a second there you go hey thanks guys my name is derek i'm an alcoholic that was awesome jen thank you so much nice to see you um you know i read into one and twelve they've got that guy that uh people always He's some kind of a folk hero and exercised his right to be wrong when he set up that rehab facility in Charleston, West Virginia. And he got the townspeople to play for it. And the guy was – he had noble ideas. He had big ideas. I think he was crudely gifted, right? And he thought he was so forward-thinking that he wrote to AA and asked for their blessings. Will you sponsor this or whatever the term is? and he told him no no we won't do that and we'll tell you that not only do we not agree with your idea we will tell you it's never worked anywhere right and the guy exercises right to be wrong right i believe that guy caused a tremendous amount of harm for anyone that thing failed a black guy they gave alcohol synonymous right so i don't believe that there was a folk hero accept that he told us about it and we got to learn from his mistakes incredibly valuable right so the example that I use is you know this guy had 61 justifications on how he was validated in breaking age traditions right so the examples that I talk about when I work with guys is whatever your justifications there are no good reasons for breaking age traditionals do you have the ability to put something bigger than you before your personal self-interest? That guy was smart, but he wasn't as smart as he thought he was. You're probably not as smart as you are when you think you're justified in breaking A's traditions. You're prolly not as important as you think you are. Don't take yourself so damn seriously if you think you're justifying and breaking A tradition. Thank you. Thank you very much. JT, I will be unmuting you, you have two minutes. Thanks. They say you're never too old to learn. And I've been in this thing a little while, a little over 20 years and I've had a lot of people talking about the plain language big book and about the changes to the preamble and I thought I was being old and wise and saying your own group can decide what you want to do. the old preamble, use the old preample. That's up to you, but live and learn. The group conscience of the U.S. and Canada really hit me hard tonight. It's nothing I can do if they decide to other than to point it out, but I have a new message now and that's it is the group conscience. I truly appreciate it. I appreciate the opportunity to be here and I appreciatethe opportunity to learn whenever I I said, well, my day one in AA, I should have been delegate and trustee then because I knew everything. But 20-something years later, I think the gift is when you realize that you don't know everything and that you're willing to learn and willing to listen to other perspectives. So anyhow, thank you all for being here and I appreciate this opportunity to learn more about the program I love that saved my life. Thank you very much, Jay. Denise R you're up thank you my name is Denise I'm alcoholic um thank you Billy and thank you Jen it's good to see you and you shared some wonderful things and I had similar experiences too and it just brought to mind one a few years back in um a friend of ours home group. So it wasn't my home group, but we went to this group on a Friday night and they opened the meeting with the AA preamble, the Al-Anon preample and the NA preamdle all in one. And unfortunately there was a newcomer there, which I really felt bad about. And, you know, I even said, I thought this was an AA meeting. Well, it is. I said, well, no, it really isn't. And so after the meeting, you know, talking to the friend that I went there to see and explaining to him what my thoughts were on it and pulling out the literature. And he just didn't agree, right? Didn't agree. But the point of reaching out to that newcomer after the meaning and we pulled them aside and said, you know, I really apologize for this. And if you need AA, please keep coming to other meetings or other ones out there. um this one was not an alcoholics anonymous meeting but that my um a lot of my problems not problems but you know i run into people that don't believe in the literature and that's probably hard to accept sometimes i'm sure at one time i didn't either um i kind of started out like gen 2 but it's difficult uh when people don't Believe in the Literature because they it's hard to have that conversation if you can at least agree on the basis of the conference to prove literature so thanks for letting me share and thanks for being here tonight appreciate it thank Thank you. Okay, next up is Brandon. Brandon, you're gonna be unmuted. You'll have two minutes. yeah alcoholic brandon uh thank you too for uh tonight it's always a pleasure to listen people with lots of knowledge um i had left a group about a year ago now because we read um a lot of different things i think there was like 12 to 13 readings before the meeting began And that was my introduction and my first home group to AA. And I, too, had started a tradition study, I think, year three in my sobriety and got some knowledge and some understanding from some great people. And I brought some of this stuff back in my business meetings. And needless to say, it gave me some tougher, thicker skin, you know. And I learned a lot. And I moved to a three legacy group where we're still, I guess you would say, not following all the proper ways to conduct an AA meeting. But through this and through the wisdom that is shared in these rooms, it gives me more confidence in standing up in a room where we have a lot of long-time sobriety and a lot people with their own opinions and everything. But just to be able to express this and give them the informed decision. Give them the information so they can make the informed decisions. And again, thank you guys for tonight. uh i got a lot out of it and i'll shut up thanks thank you very much i'll give another two seconds if anyone else wants to raise their virtual hand okay so before we go to questions okay here we go preg from maine you will be unmuted you have two minutes um craig alcoholic uh oh geez i just blinked it was going to be a question too oh yeah the spirit of no questions at this time only sharing your experience you can send questions to the chat well i'll just share this then we have a um we have a small area that we live in and people are people go to the to the service structure and hang on to their roles for long periods of time because there's just no one no one around and um so anyway so that's it i won't ask the question but it's kind of you can send it into the chat but thank you thanks so before we go to questions just a couple of things i just want to share quickly and that is um number one like just a public service announcement for these people out here who struggle with the preamble or the plain language big book there's no requirement that you have to read the preamble at an am meeting just want let you know that i mean the first time i went to california a long, long, long time ago. And I went to my first meeting in California. They didn't read how it works. It was so long ago I called my sponsor on a payphone with a calling card. I was new and poor, so not like a real calling card, like one you buy at a bodega that you scratch off the back with a quarter to get the code, like old school alcoholic calling card. And I said to him, said you're not going to believe this they don't read how it works in california he said well there's no requirement they read more about alcoholism a couple of paragraphs so if the preamble has somebody twisted up i just tell them that like why do you even worry about it if your group doesn't like it don't use it use another piece of literature that you like uh the other thing i just want to comment on is this whole a literature that's twisted out of context which is that your right to be wrong is more important than my right to be right that's clear but it is sometimes misconstrued that it means your right to be wrong means you're right i just want to stress that it still means you are wrong you just have a right to be right right it's more important than me being right but it doesn't just mean that you're automatically right um the other thing i want to talk about is you know and jen mentioned this and it's probably i have a lot more probably patience and tolerance for new people and people higher up in the upside down triangle than i do for the lower part of the triangle delegates trustees staff who don't want to stick up for our literature especially because we spend hundreds of thousands of dollars producing this new literature like we spend years working on it years at the conference editors publishers uh in translators like we spent so much money and then to hear a delegate or a trustee tell somebody well don't worry about that and i'm like what are you talking about we could have saved a lot of money if that's going to be our approach like conference approved literature is the group conscience of the united states and canada uh the last thing i want to say is this and i am i know there's people i really don't care how you care if you love the new the plain language big book hate the plain language big book but please don't associate my use of the term plain language with the plain language big like those two words are still two or two words in the english language right um the words themselves plain language are not evil or bad um and i was minding my own business i went to a meeting that i don't haven't been to in a long time last weekend where i used to live and i ran into i think a gsr but a person who is in service and really new and not new to aa but really on fire for the traditions and the concepts and the literature and um and i talked to her after the meeting um and she gave me a you know she said i have one request and you know i thought about her request and it's probably a good one she said you know she goes sometimes i just wish that i could just like get like what is the condensed version not changing the words of anything but like the meaning of each tradition the like what what is the point they're getting to you know and you when you read all the stuff that jen put in the chat the resources in our literature and everything. I mean, it's very clear. Stay in your lane. Stay in your lane, and you know, alcoholics, I think, would be horrible swimmers in the Olympics because we do not like to stay in our lane. You know? We are the worst and stay in your Lane. The fourth tradition is for your group or if you're on a district that your district fourth tradition or if you're on a conference committee it's your conference or roundup committee fourth tradition so with that i'm going to read some questions and jen can help me here um okay why don't we just jump right into the frying pan if the secular group is editing the steps in the big book and using tradition four as the right to do so is there anything that in a group or dcm can do okay i will uh pass this on the agenda in a second i'm gonna tell you something i just need to i don't know if i have my right highlighted service manual but But the steps, the concepts, and the traditions can only be changed by the AA groups, not even the conference. 75% of the AA group's permission in writing is what it takes to change the steps. The steps, traditions, and concepts. So number one, the group does not have the right to change them. will they probably are they wrong yes should we delist them or take any other kind of crazy action no that's not our business we don't investigate or or do things like that i do want to say here though that an important difference to be made is especially for trustees i would argue delegates spiritually but especially for trustees see bernard smith was a genius a past non-alcoholic chair of the general service board a lot of people are familiar with that he wrote why do we need a conference and that's a favorite part of the service manual a lot of people but you see inside the bylaws of the general service board which are legal instruments the current trustees not only have a spiritual obligation but a legal duty and this is what it says so i'm a past trustee now i tell somebody who's in a group that wants to change the steps hey it's fine that you do that that's my opinion as billy the who cares what he says a member right but the four years i served as a trustee i was bound by the following words and this is under the statement of purpose in the bylaws of the General Service Board The General Service Board of Alcoholics Anonymous hereinafter referred to as either the General Services Board or the Board claims no proprietary right in the recovery program for these 12 steps as all spiritual truths may now be regarded as available to all mankind However However, because these 12 steps have proven to constitute an effective spiritual basis for life which if followed arrests the disease of alcoholism. The General Service Board asserts the negative right of preventing so far as it may be within its power to do so any modification alteration or extension of these or extension of these 12 Steps, except at the instance of the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous in keeping with the charter of the general service conference in other words except if the group's 75 percent of them vote but as a trustee i hear trustees sometimes out there like giving permission to people to change the steps it's just it's it's not in their bylaws they have an app an opposite duty to prevent the changing of the steps jen you want to give that of whack sure uh so i do if you've not figured out i really do love the literature and so i was going to give you guys what he gave was great but there's a couple other places if you want to look so he mentioned the service manual page 123 um i don't know a little more than halfway down the conference relation to aa it does say but no change in article 12 so the warranties of the charter or in the 12 traditions of aaa or in The 12 steps of aa may be made with less than written consent of three quarters of the aa groups as described in the resolution adopted by 1955 conference and convention and if that's not good enough then i can just go with something just very worldly and simple this is my big book it's a abridged version but even still there's a little thing in the front of each book any book it's copy written that doesn't just because i'm an aa member does not mean like i have ownership or claim to the book or the steps or anything and so i should not change anything so but yeah i mean another way of simply putting it like when i have new sponsees that ask me well you know aren't we autonomous can't we do like whatever you want i said yeah you can go rob a bank too let me go let me know how that works out just saying that's all i have thanks jen thank you there is a question here does it break a tradition if it is a group's habit for members to hold commitments indefinitely in a meeting or in the service structure if there is no one who wants to take it on so i know sometimes people ask this question especially in small areas or places like that um i will tell you it is definitely if there are people willing and able you should be stepping aside no doubt about it i will also say if you only have a limited amount of people like you're in some way off geographic location where there aren't a lot of members, then you should at the very least rotate positions and not keep the same person in a position. But I also want to explain the spiritual rule or law that existed long before AA, which is you can't fill a filled position. so if you keep taking a position no one is going to step up now if you leave a position empty and it doesn't cause any problems well then you probably have ninth tradition problem you have over organized too much and you don't need that position so you just learn something valuable that position doesn't need to be needed it could be done by somebody else or something else however let's just take the person who makes coffee or unlocks the door of your average group all it's going to take is two weeks of that door not being opened maybe even only two minutes and someone is going to step up and decide to fill that position. But if you keep doing it, no one is going to do it. Jen? So again, super big fan of AA group pamphlet. And there's a really, really good, it's about 1, 2, 3, 4 paragraphs, page 28, the principle of rotation, talks about uh rotation ensures the group tasks like nearly everything else in aa are passed around for all to share many groups have alternates but i like how it says to step out of an aaa office you love can be hard right now it's not just talking technical it's talking the spiritual reality that is difficult and what often keeps most of us stuck in those positions i know and a lot of it too i love it talks about in our literature the term was perfectly good intent right we all are in love with alcoholics anonymous and want to be helpful that says if you've been doing a good job if you honestly don't see anyone else around willing qualified or with the time to do it and if your friends agree it's especially tough i love that it uses this language right it really it makes it so now i have to rotate but it can be a real step forward in growth to step into humility that is for the same people uh the spiritual essence of autonomy and so i won't read all of it but that gives you like i highly suggest anyone to read it and it's great to use with people when it comes to to election time and all that and i will tell you my home group we're a small but mighty group we've been only only for about two years now a little bit more and we have sort of fluctuated we had three when we started we've got up to nine we currently have five and so we do we rotate positions around like i'm currently the alternate meeting chair i actually have two positions but they're both in my home group i don't hold any other positions in any other group so i'm uh our recording secretary and i'm the alternate needing chair and so and we just kind of rotate around but yeah we don't stay when the term is up it's time to move so that's all you know one of the things we don't talk about in rotation sometimes we talk about that it's better for the group to have rotation and that's true but the real damage is not done to the group it's done to person who doesn't rotate by the rest of the members of aa they are the ones committing a spiritual crime against that person when you lift up a person and put them in a place where you have them believing that they can't be replaced it is not good the alcoholic ego cannot handle that and everybody is replaceable that's just the bottom line everybody is replaceable there was a question here it's a good one um let me just read that person's how they framed it when we use the word groups does this include districts and areas district and area attendees in our area believe the districts and areas are also groups and that the term just doesn't apply to any group sure yes we don't own the word group like a group it's any group that's a group conscience just think of it that way is it a district isn't an area is it an intergroup steering committee is a roundup committee is it a young people's aa convention committee like that group with their own group conscience that's what it applies to let's see if there's any other questions i do not see any other question so with that i'm gonna great thank jen again and uh thank you for your service as an alternate area chair that's awesome um thank you and uh next week we will be back with tradition five i will give a quick public service announcement it is now april 6th the general service conference is weeks away please make sure that you know what's going on in your area is your delegate having another meeting before the general services conference to get feedback on the conference items um you know it's a couple of weeks away and uh there's some important things on that agenda so with that we will close with the responsibility statement and in honor of jen referring to as bill sees it and i love as bill says it i'm just going to give a little public service announcement out there for those that might not know i'm going to close with the responsibility statement sometimes the responsibility statement is used as a reason to break the third tradition or the fifth tradition that when anyone anywhere reaches out to anyone and i just want to make clear you can find the story of i am responsible it's um on pages 332 and 333 of uh as bill sees it and it talks about the real purpose which is to carry on third legacy service and to make sure aa is here in the future so with that after a moment of silence i will close with the responsibility statement. I am responsible when anyone anywhere reaches out for help. I want the hand of AA always to be there, and for that, I am responsable. Thanks, everyone. Have a great night. Jen, thanks again.