Tradition 10 and Unity – Traditions Workshop – Part 7 of 10 – Local AA Speakers

My name is Herb and I'm an alcoholic and I'll tone it down a little. There we go. Welcome to our Twelve Traditions Workshop. Please join me in the prayer for an open mind. God, please set aside everything that I think I know about myself, my brokenness, the twelve traditions, and you for an opened mind and a new experience with myself, My Brokenness, The Twelve Traditions, and Especially You. This is the foreword as it appeared in the pamphlet AA Tradition, How It Developed by Bill Wilson, published in 1955. How shall we AAs best preserve our unity? When an alcoholic applies the twelve steps of our recovery program to his personal life his disintegration stops and his unification begins the power which now holds him together in one piece overcomes those forces which had rent him apart exactly the same principle applies to each a group and to alcoholics anonymous as a whole so long as the ties which bind us together prove far stronger than those forces would divide us if they could all will be well we shall be secure as a movement our essential unity will remain a certainty may we never forget that without permanent unity we can offer little lasting relief to those scores of thousands yet to join us in their quest for freedom it is the purpose of this workshop to review and discuss each of the 12 traditions so we may better understand and apply them to our fellowship and to our personal lives. Please join me in a few minutes of meditation on that purpose. Please join us in the serenity prayer. God, grant me the serENITY to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things i can and the wisdom to know the difference. um so let's go to the short and long form of the tradition the uh tradition 10 is short form is alcoholics anonymous has no opinion on outside issues hence the aa name ought never be drawn into public controversy the long form no aa group or member should ever in such a way as to implicate a express any opinion on outside controversial issues particularly those of politics alcohol reform or sectarian religion the alcoholics anonymous groups oppose no one concerning such matters they can express no views whatever so i've got some thoughts on that we have the normal culprits in terms of flyers so i'm not even going to announce it today we'll just give you a relief from that well I believe we talked about dr. Bob's last address last workshop and he said keep it simple and we we really got the context of that that was really referring to Freudian and also technological vocabulary but of course our step 10 Bill Wilson wrote love and tolerance is our code our code is love intolerance and Bob had confirmed that our purpose is love and service the tradition 10 is another aspect of attempting to maintain our unity as an organization, as a group and the groups among the groups. The steps transform the individual so that in fact we practice love and service. It's an organic process. Steps 11 and 12 would be my translation. Love our relationship with the mystery, service our relationship with humanity. The steps transform the individual organically as a process. The traditions guide the individual and the individual group and the groups themselves for actions, for love and service. They guide us as principles. It's an organic purpose rather than an organic process. the steps are the organic process the traditions are the organic purpose these are concepts that came to me as I'm reflecting and preparing for tonight the magic cement I put down is love and the evidence of that love is a manifestation of service and of course we see regularly in the big book the quote from the epistle or the letter of james to the christian community if you haven't read it it would be worthwhile you're reading about a page and a half from the christians scripture in the christain bible the letter from james to the cristian community is about a page now and he has there's a lot of stuff in there that you'll recognize from the oxford group that they have incorporated that as one of their basic documents, as well as the big book adopted some of the verbiage like faith without works is dead comes directly from that letter. And if you've been around me any length of time, you know that the man who took me through the steps 26 years ago would very readily and often say willingness without action is fantasy. Of course, he was using that every time I said i'm willing but i didn't i wasn't able to get the work done yeah right he used it against me of course willingness without action is fantasy it's the same kind of concept faith without works is dead so the real measure of everything is behavior the purpose of the steps is the deflation of the ego at depth the purpose of the traditions is the deflation of the group's ego at death the traditions protect us from both individual and the group weaknesses which we've seen from that chart that I distributed some time ago that talks about sacrifice each tradition and each step asks us to sacrifice something and when you take a look at the origin the origins of the word sacrifice it's not a negative terminology it's a very positive terminology such air meaning holy thought your a meaning to make to make whole w-h-o-l-e or to make holy w excuse me h-o l-y sacrifice is the combination of those two root to those two words tradition 10 is again a reinforcement of the singleness of purpose AA is a a spiritual entity the groups have a spiritual message and that's the primary purpose is to carry that message that singleness of purpose that unity and go back all the way to the beginning when i suggested that we have that mystical basically or poetic image of a body that has many parts and a cellular structure that really holds it together but underneath even the physical cellular structure the animation the anima the spirit thus the life force of that so we're really in this tradition we're talking about outside issues but outside of what and I was struck by the the simplicity of the approach of the commentary on tradition 12 that outside issue outside of what the answer is outside of my relationship with God and outside of My sobriety issues that don't have any relevance to my sobriete and issues that don't any relevance to My relationship with god is what is meant by an outside issue well that really makes it kind of simple almost black and white although nothing really is and i had an example i think it was from some of the literature that says it's really a spiritual act for me to take my inventory it's not such a spiritual act when i take your inventory yeah really so step 10 is a focus that bill gives us from the 12 and 12 it's a spiritual axiom whenever i am disturbed there is something wrong with me i mean that's the heart of the matter of step 10 that is being disturbed in fact bill uses that word, I believe, in the big book. He talks about watch for resentment and fear and dishonesty and selfishness and when they crop up, these are the things that disturb us that we're watching for. I am responsible at the same time I'm powerless, and the steps bring us to a point of exercising the one power that we do have, which is to say yes to acknowledge the existence of God and to consent to a relationship with God. I'm powerless in other respects, but I'm responsible for that with regard to the 10th tradition, although I don't affiliate with anything outside of my relationship with God and my relationship with sobriety under the flag of AA, as a citizen of the world, I am responsible for issues as a person of the word. As a citizen of the world. All right? and I think that's a huge distinction not as a member of AA but as a member of the human race I have responsibilities to the extent that I have the talent and the inclination to intervene in terms of resolving some of the problems of humanity one of the wonderful images that was raised in some of the readings was that literally it going back to that poetic mystical imagery that I talked about a little earlier is that if that's something that we adopt as sort of a metaphor for our life, the body and the animating force being the spirit, then in fact truly we're the hands and the feet of God as a manifestation of the divinity. God works through people. The organic dynamic of the 12th step then with the spiritual soul of our way of life being the 11th step where we improve our conscious contact we manifest that consciousness we manifest that contact through altruistic service through compassionate service to those around us and the word resounding word through the literature was peacemaker we'll come to that am i a peacemaker or a shit stirrer huh very spiritual a couple just random thoughts to be useful really means i'm not invested in myself That I'm really invested in, not in the sense of attached to But having a value for helping other people Not attached to Not invested in the essence of attachment But invested in this sense that this is my value to be of service I'm not invested in myself I'm invested in helping And the word respect universal respect in fact I think was the word in some of the literature respect for one another and when you then once again go back to that poetic image of the body and the unity of the then I respect my ears I respect my arm I respect feet in the sense that I take care of all of my body not just one aspect of it I put the words gentle humble and listening again the word listening coming up be an ambassador of spirituality be an Ambassador of the Spirit so these are just phrases that are just worthy of a meditation am I an ambassador of spirituality am i an ambassador the spirit and so the one of the major motifs I believe of Tradition 10 is to maintain our integrity, our primary purpose under the flag of AA now. I'm not talking about your personal or individual life that's not connected to in a formal sense membership in your 12-step fellowship. I'm talking about living your life in some form of anonymity disconnected from any badge of membership in a public domain. We'll be talking about anonymity for two, in fact, full workshops. By the way, you know that we're not meeting next week. No meeting on Tuesday before Thanksgiving, but we will meet on December 2nd, I believe is the first Tuesday of December we will meet here on tradition 11 and then and that's on anonymity and then a tradition 12 on December 9th and that'll be our final one and that again will be on anonymity so we're going to get a lot of rich conversation and experience in background in the whole concept of anonymity I really really suggest that you pay attention to the assignment don't wait to the end because there's a lot more material in other literature than just the assigned literature if you do the assigned literature it'll be wonderful if you have an interest in further looking at things look in the AA comes of age dr. Bob and the good old timers there's several sections in there on anonymity I won't bother to give them to you can just look at the index in those books if you them and if you don't have them of course we have them here so to maintain integrity my final notes here is about wholeness integrity i looked up the word again integer meaning wholenesse and no interference and no distraction no interference and no distractions were the two words that came up i'm not sure from me or from my readings i make notes as i'm reading i read kind of meditatively as i am looking at this material trying to make it kind of like have us coherent so that we can talk about it in some manner that makes sense so let's take a look at the language of the heart tradition 10 would be on page 89 written in September 1948 and it's about a couple paragraphs there and then there's another page on page 90 but let's stay with the material on page eighty nine are there any highlights questions comments on that material that anybody would like to express and we do have a a live mic there and thank you george barrel alcoholic set by jordan um i got the first sentence alcoholics anonymous has become as solid as the rock of gibraltar and it is my rock of Gibraltar i mean my life is based on that yeah at this point yeah what's the rocket Gibraltar I've heard it before there's Gibraltars savings but what is rock of Gibraltor Katie I believe it is I believe it is a rock that marks the opening the of the Mediterranean Sea on the African side does that oh well close Spanish side over there yeah it's one of those two sides all right and it's just a big old rock well yeah well it's very very very huge and the only thing I can remember is this phrase that when a When a sparrow sharpens her beak on the rock of Gibraltar and it reduces to sand, that's the beginning of infinity. I don't know where, but that's one of my phrases. Sounds like Sister Alicia's from second grade. Richard. It's on the Liberian Peninsula, it's limestone, it is a huge monolithic. Okay. All right. mean to get to but it's a very major yeah because it's referred to in lots of literature right the rock of Gibraltar and I've never paid attention to it where it is or what it is but I just assumed it's a massive rock someplace yeah yeah thank you all right so are there any other highlights on this page 89 all right hence we take for granted our continued unity as a movement all right versus being separated let's go to page 90 any Any highlights on page 90? I love the very... Hello? Is it working? At the very top, a sentence at the top of the page. So the real question is, how shall we always be worthy of our present blessings? Okay, I'm not sure what the context was for that. Let's just take a look. but should we what take for granted all right so there's the connection though God has bestowed upon us great favors and though we are bound by stronger ties of love and necessity than most societies were bound by the threat of death actually is it prudent to suppose that automatically these great gifts and attribute shall be ours forever. If we are worthy, we shall probably continue to enjoy them. So the real question is, how shall we always be worthy of our present blessings? See, when you see something in context, it takes on a whole new meaning here. Yeah, actually I was struck by hence we take for granted. I don't take it for granted. That's why I'm involved in general service. But most AAs do take it for granted well and i'm not involved in general service because i tried it once i mean i'm i'm just not built for that i have other gifts where i can make a contribution but i i cannot sit in those kinds of meetings and have those kinds of discussions um without drinking so bless you i'm so glad i see people who are really in the service structure and they go up the chain and they become trustees and at large and all the rest of that i'm just an so total admiration because we need them they do fabulous work in keeping the ship on course fabulous work all right and so we all have in the body we all have our parts some here and some have manual and some do the walking and so it's all wonderful uh katie again here i have a question i i can tell he's talking about is it not on it is go ahead okay i can tell he's talking to solve this problem for a minute there we go okay uh i could tell he was talking about the sadness of the world war you know but when he talks about um the religious dissension i was wondering what historical i mean religious what year was this written 48 well was there any religious dissention in 1948 well there always is that's what he said well what was the major religious ascension in 1948 i think there was a ship outside of palestine that was going to land some people there that they didn't want uh what was the name of that boat the exodus right right around 1948 so that might have been it i don't know the what no no somebody didn't bomb it but that was the establishment of the country Israel yeah because they get gathered because of all of the stuff that went on in Germany alright so anything else on this page please hi justin the tenth tradition for it deals with the subject of controversy serious controversy yeah and i just know that uh there's so many outside issues you know i don't agree with anybody on anything you know I agree with that okay good good good but uh but there's that it's so easy to get caught up into my own stuff and to think that i can change somebody's mind or or you know blob out what my feelings are this is a like you say this is like a spiritual place you don't do that why why would we you know one of uh make a statement about something that's an outside issue because we're all right because we were human but that's what this whole tradition is about seen from this point of view our a traditions are those attitudes and practices by which we may deserve as a movement a long life and a useful one to this end none could be more vital than our tenth tradition for it deals with the subject of controversy serious controversy as we talked about earlier it's human nature i mean socrates i believe it was said you know way back when 3,000 years ago he says politics begins when there are two people in the same room huh think about it because there are two opinions about how things should be done that's politics coming from the Greek word police pol is which meant people yeah so on the other side of the world millions have died ever even recently in religious dissension we talked about that with the wars that had gone on I mean Bill himself was in the war of 1917 First World War and of course this is written in 1948 just at the conclusion of the Second World War so he'd really seen this chaos worldwide right anything else on this page worth noting commenting on Hi, Sarah Food Addict. Yeah, I was really happy to read the truth about how everyone... Thank you. uh how everyone in the world has turned reformer and you must do as we say or else and you know i experienced that within my own program especially around the issue of medications medication all right and i find that very divisive it would be in any program yes and i know that aa has had this maybe still has this uh yes issue i don't think there's a major issue here with um alcoholics anonymous but i don'T go to that many meetings yeah Yeah. So I have concern about that in my program, that there is a line of sponsoring that the way I see it furthers the stigma of mental illness by marginalizing people who are on medication. Yeah, it's an outside issue. and that yeah that's the major outside issue that I experience yes I can see where they would bring it into the state please I could see where they would bring into their fellowship because it is a substance that you're ingesting so it could be that there's a connection there but I still see it as an outside issue in the same way in Alcoholics Anonymous prescribed medication is an outside issue even though it's a prescribed drug and it is connected to perhaps even mind-altering consciousness altering it's still an outside issued number one because it's not alcohol and number two because we're not medical doctors or pharmacists and even if we are in the rooms of aa were not you know yeah yeah so and and you're right it's it can be terribly divisive and that's why the legitimacy of this particular uh tradition because its main purpose is unity not to divide us i had a workshop that i was at the time of the oh two or three presidential elections ago and somebody came in with a button representing one of the candidates i didn't see it but i saw a little covey of people sort of go over to that person surround that person and then escort that person out to have a conversation and that person came back to the meeting still smiling but without the button it's nice yeah because it was inappropriate Now, my meetings are not 12-step fellowship clean and pure of any kind. Of course, it's an umbrella over all the 12-stepped, but still I want to embody the traditions and the spirit of all of the 12 step fellowships in the room. So it was totally appropriate from that standpoint. It just seems to me that because this is a disease of self-centeredness Yes. And self-importance, righteousness can come under that category that we do have to pay attention to keeping it clean about how our opinions are not necessarily the right ones and could be divisive if they're made into policy right some way well the big book doesn't tell us to share our opinion strength and hope it suggests that we share our experience strength and Hope and so quite frankly opinions have no place in the rooms of a 12-step fellowship program I mean but in the spirit of it all it's really about sharing an experience yeah thank you sarah very much and so uh can go ahead george yeah an example of that uh in my home group meeting a large meeting uh a man with a considerable amount of sobriety discussed his opinion of people who took prescription drugs and you know he was against it he said you shouldn't take drugs period and a lot of people got up and i mean this is the only time i've ever heard controversy expressed at our podium because people were trying to say you know their opinion on it or it's not appropriate one of the two neither none of that was appropriate well once he had opened the can of worms it might have been good to have discussion about it as long as it's done and I the spirit of love and tolerance is that we may disagree but not disagreeably huge well that it it may be good to have a discussion maybe not in the meeting maybe in a business meeting or something or outside about a controversy that like that because it's important that people get informed and see different sides of it that's a huge issue and I could see the relevancy of it sometime opinion of the gentleman finally agreed that one should not have a medical opinion in a period good there see yeah nice very nice i'm robin compulsible reader i i have no experience to share about alcoholics anonymous yet i get the impression that that medications must be a very controversial issue because there is a gso pamphlet about medications and alcoholism because i saw it in an alano club and i was so interested i picked it up and read it so there's the pamphlets because there might have been some controversy about it there still may be some controversy because people haven't read the pamplet and ignorance always breeds controversy but that's a great way to address the issue in in a meeting is pull out the pamphlet could be absolutely or at least recommend it right i did want to point to something in the reading i i like the law i like that ends with the sentence that will be the acid test of our worth i think is is a strong statement so what what will be the acid tests of our work i think how how we as a fellowship respond to inevitable controversial issues that will arise um yeah and the answer is you know respect the tradition yeah well and once again he goes back to what mitch had raised about behavior all right we'll give us a we'll reveal our values and our worth and i go down to the second of the last full paragraph where it says we are at peace among ourselves and because we have thus far adhered to our soul aim the whole world regards us favorably. May God grant us the wisdom meaning knowledge like the 11th step and fortitude meaning strength like the eleventh step Bill's really consistent here ever to sustain and unbreakable unity, his commentary on Tradition 10. So let's go to his formal commentary, which is the 12 traditions in the 12 and 12, and that would be on page 176, and I believe he has three and a half pages of commentary on Tradition 10. We look at page 176. Does anybody have any highlights or comments on that? Yes. In the first paragraph, practically never have I heard a heated religious, political, or reform argument among AA members. Well, I had some experience with that. As a relatively new AA member, I was talking with a friend and we got into politics and we had diametrically opposite political opinions and within about 30 seconds it became very heated. But you weren't in a meeting? We were at a meeting, yeah, before the meeting. Okay, I see, I got it. But we're just talking, you know, again, it was at a meetings. And it became really heated, you now after about two minutes We just sort of backed off and said, this is really not something to continue. And we kind of avoided each other for a couple of years. Sure. And then a little bit later, we got to be friends again, and we actually did business with each other. But it took years for the relationship to heal as a result of that little two-minute thing. And there have been some other situations where people have expressed their political opinions, which are different from mine and I lose respect I lose a modicum of respect for them because of that because you know they're expressing an opinion that doesn't belong but see and that's why I tried to clarify it in the rooms of AA I don't know about outside the rooms if you're if youre outside the room and and you're not in the room but you're there for the purpose of AA so actually I'm thinking it through as we're talking I'm talking about I could see that if in it's on the grounds where you're gathering to be in an AA meeting then these kind of controversial issues do not belong in the conversation because it might in fact prevent you from being of service to somebody in terms of helping by implication or even indirectly. Yeah, and then your mind is racing for a period after that or what you should have said. Well, I'm not so concerned about the person, them. I'm concerned about the newcomer potentially hearing this kind of stuff and going, oh, for God's sakes, and being kind of put off by it. Yeah. Nicole Allen on. as by some deep instinct i like that we aas have known from the very beginning that we must never no matter what the provocation publicly takes sides in any fight even a worthy one i think that's a terrific line there and it's uh it's he says it by some deep instinct meaning we have some type of natural intuition about what's appropriate and what's not appropriate and then of course there are some people that have not been socialized properly because of parenting or early adolescent experiences or perhaps prison experiences that actually really don't know like social etiquette and so it's appropriate to think about how to approach somebody like that and try to help them or educate them if they're open to that dave sex love and fantasy addict going back to george's uh comment you know the very next line is so long as we don't argue these matters privately it's a cinch that we don t do we shall not publicly right and so even if george s discussion had taken place off site if it was with another a member yeah that seems like that would uh yeah cover that and so on yeah he takes it to the spirit of it even privately perhaps you're reducing your usefulness if you get in too embedded in your opinion with somebody who has a contrary opinion that's what that's exactly that and and in my work environment i learned very early on just don't bring up politics yeah right right you know you're going to have to work with this person whether you like it or not yeah you don't want to have an argument festering in the background nice very nice yeah very smart actually i had a sponsor a sponsee uh work with a sponc and um i don't know what they're doing but this third generation spawn c type person basically didn't agree with what was going on there knew that i sponsored this man and came to me and said you know i really like working with what's his name in in all respects but you know he's a very fundamentalist Christian and he's trying to get me to go to his church and to believe in Jesus and so I called my sponsee and I said knock it off you can believe anything that you want but you don't bring it to the people that you're working with it's quite clear in the big book their concept of god not your concept of God no matter how strongly you believe about being saved and how strongly you want this person to have the salvation that's your you're putting your philosophy and theology onto somebody that's inappropriate and I've not heard anything about it since But those are the kinds of things that sometimes you get involved with. And he says it, we must never, no matter what the provocation, publicly and I would say privately in this case, take sides in any fight, even a worthy one. Okay, I'm not Nicole. but um uh the only time i think i've ever walked out of an aaa meeting was a small meeting there's a lot of very normal crosstalk they're very old friends and everything but they started arguing back and forth about the gulf war and i went whoa this doesn't help my story at all and i was i think the only one time i walked out yeah very hurtful i was in in my early sobriety i I was in a Nolano club at a morning meeting, and I knew that these two gentlemen had long-term sobriety meetings over 20 years. And about halfway through the meeting, after a little yelling, they got up and started to fist fight. Yes, it was quite entertaining. So on page 177, do we have any highlights? Yeah, it wasn't helpful. But anyway, on page177, did we have anything? any highlights anybody wants to bring to the attention you know in the second paragraph that you know nor does it mean that the members of alcoholics anonymous now restored as citizens of the world are going to back away from their individual responsibilities to act as they see the right upon issues of our time yeah so it's saying yeah go ahead and do what you think is right, just keep it away from AA. And don't proclaim your AA membership when you're out doing what it is you're doing. I mean, I interpret this as being keep it far away because of my experience in the parking lot. Yep, exactly. Good. Well, in the closing line of that paragraph, it says, it is imperative that we preserve in full strength our means of survival. That is the integrity of the group. Mike, alcoholic. Hey, Mike. And I know it's tricky. There's a meeting where they ask for any A announcements and then they say are there any non-A announcements? Okay. Yeah. And? There's an issue. Someone came up and made an announcement about a Nicotine Anonymous meeting during the non-a announcement. yep and there's an issue whether or not it was appropriate who had the issue he's wearing a pink shirt well I'm wearing a paying shirt but anyway I know well but it is a non-aa issue and in the meeting really didn't have a problem with it and I don't have problem with it but then there's another guy this is where I was really going with it who they said are there any non a announcements and the guy says vote Republican bad I have an issue with that I have a issue with yeah but I also have an issue if it's anybody have a non-a announcement and the guys says yeah I've got a room to rent anybody want a room too that's just not relevant all right I I don't know why, it's just an instinct here. Now the 12-step meeting or Herb's workshop would be just totally legitimate because it's helping people. But I want you to be very careful of the culture of the meetings. I say that often, that some meetings don't allow non-AA announcements and some people don't allow announcements concerning this kind of workshop. So just respect the culture of the meetings concerning posting of flyers or announcement of flyERS. That's really important. I know that there's a very strict AA group that says, are there any AA announcements? Are there any group announcements? And group announcements need to be cleared with the secretary before they make the agenda, which would then preserve whatever integrity that group culture wants to preserve rather than having spontaneous whatever it comes from the group. And I also have an observation that there was a running joke last week about Nicole, and I hope she has a good reason not to be here. Oh, she's cool, yeah. And I just want to throw on top of that, because we all know George comes up here twice as much as anybody else. Well, we weren't keeping track, but that'll be grist for your fourth step resentment inventory. That's right. That' s right. We can take advantage of everything. January 6th, please. I'm Rob. I'll just say, actually, I'm kind of interested in that. I have no, again, I don't have the experience in my fellowship of any meetings setting aside time for non-OAA-related announcements. It seems like you're inviting 10th tradition violation by doing that because how is anyone supposed to know what the boundaries are if it's non-AA-related announcements? You know, I do not know how we know, but I have been in a meeting. No, I did not. I've been in a meeting, a MNSTAG meeting for 30 years and they asked for AA announcements. They asked for non-AA announcements and never once in the 30 years that I've been there, and I'm there every week, has there ever been anything that has been inappropriate. So I don't know how we know that. Now you know since attending your big book study over the year prior to this past year, when I am asked to speak at a meeting and give my experience on working the steps, I speak vaguely about this group because in my experience with it and how much I have benefited from it. But I always say it's not an OA-related function. If you'd like to get more information about it, talk to me after the meeting. And that's ... I'm pretty comfortable with that. wonderful yeah absolutely one way you know is if it's in the format and it was not in the format of that meeting what's not in the format what's not in the format what's no no no don't write that's a question what's not in the format well you go down the end of the meeting and says are there any aa announcements but it doesn't say are there any non-aa announcements when you read the format oh there you go so the person stepped outside of the format very now see there's the rest of the story as paul harvey would say exactly thank you very much please hi my name is ken and i'm in slaa hi ken um so just because this came up um i made an amendment or i asked for an amendment to the format in our meeting since all meetings or autonomous, asking to add something at the end of the meeting that said after they would say are there any SLA announcements, so after that ask for are there other non-SLA announcements. So that I could mention this workshop. So anyway, as I proposed... That's politics at its best. Because I proposed that someone asked for a clarification of my amendment, and that clarification I thought was very helpful for what it's worth. They said why don't we change it to is are there any non-SLAA announcements that are 12-step related? To eliminate the people... That's really, really helpful. And so that's what we voted for and that's we do and I now announce the herb K announcement in that me that's really helpful thank you very much yeah see the group does better than an individual there you go all right I'm on page 178 and or 179 since there's not much on there anybody have any comments there we know about the Washingtonians we've had some discussion about that a lot of that's about that I love the the phrase despite their din our puny rouse never did a a particle of harm puny Rouse love it what well you know it depends it's all relative isn't it it's all relative. All right. Hi, I'm John. I'm an alcoholic. Hi John. He did that back here too in the language of the heart. Save minor and healthy growing pains. Sort of a re-envisioning of probably what was actually going on but anyway we were at peace among ourselves. Yeah yeah yeah well they had a very tumultuous beginning That's why the traditions were wordsmithed out over a period of time. Forget what he calls those times, it's like troubled waters, that early AA, I forget. Was that the adolescent period? I think, yeah, but there's also, yeah. All right, so now we're looking at the brochure, the illustrator. Oh, by the way, you have the little brochure on anonymity and so that should help. The other brochures that were distributed earlier have material in there on anonymity. So you want to be sure, like the AA Tradition History Brochure that has at least four or five pages in it about anonymity I'm not sure about the group pamphlet I haven't actually revisited that with anonymity in mind but there's lots of write-up on that and I'll be really interested in our general experience about that. Illustrated brochure, anybody have any? Most of it's a cartoon, but there's very little verbiage on this one. But anybody have anything to add? Anybody have any reaction to or comments about? Yeah, it's pretty straight. It looks like some meetings in the Marina Center, he said. Oh, come on, that's a good place to go. all right so let's go to then the assignments and question number four do you set aside your opinions over back to that on outside or controversial issues in AA work personal relationships family or friends hi I'm Kim I can so always good to look up the words and opinion struck me one says a belief stronger than an impression and less strong than positive knowledge the second component that is judgment and i think that's what hit me the most was judgment and you know when i have an opinion i'm already in my defect of judging others yeah and so you know being reminded of this tradition for the simple purpose of no outside issues so my my judgment is an outside issue in any capacity and it also brings me back to step one which is i'm powerless over people I mean, I don't even know what's going on in my head sometimes. I can't even begin to understand what's going on someone else's head. And with the holidays coming up and I've had many family gatherings where people have wanted to debate and discuss. And that gets me into my defects of justifying and rationalizing and wanting to be validated and wanting you to like me. And, you know, I'm all the while wanting to be right. Of course. Well, that's a given because the self-righteousness is the strongest component based on fear. Oh, yeah. So so judgment really affected me. And also, too, I was thinking of the slogan and the slogan live and let live. That's something I always have to practice when I'm around my family and my coworkers in any relationship because i want to judge what you're doing and i want to tell you how to do it better because i think i know better but the spiritual component of that the respect the love the tolerance is allowing you to be who you have to be and agreeing to disagree so i need to be reminded well and nobody said it was easy yeah that's why it's the fork in the road or the road less traveled depending on what you're reading these days, right? And that's why I really come back to step one because I remember in your step study the first half of step one is we admitted we were powerless for me over people, places and things comma and our lives had become unmanageable unless I admit I'm powerless then I'm already spiraling down that road of unmanagability in my head and now I'm off in my defects and now my behavior is affected by it And now I'm just, you know, I'm nowhere near having a respectful, loving, kind relationship. Right. You know? Yes, I do. All right. Baskets? Basketts? We're going to pass the basket. You know the drill. Thank you. And we're marginally meeting rent, so don't relax. Hi, my name's Greg. I'm an alcoholic, Illinois and SLA. And when I read, you know, I mean, one of the principles is rigorous honesty and to thine own self be true. and I feel like you know and then there's three things you're not supposed to talk about at dinner it's like sex politics and religion and but I mean when I was when I doing the writing and it talks about with family and with friends and with France I kind of feel like you need to be talking about sex politics in religion I mean if you're gonna get to a better understanding I mean you shouldn't you there should be no well you know I don't know that's just how I feel about it I feel like well wait you've been very very ambivalent and how you feel about it so why don't you be really clear about how you feel about I think with friends you should be able to talk about everything even my definition that's what a friend is huh right right and if you're with In fact, I have a father who's an atheist. I have sister who's really Christian, and I'm like, I'm in Alcoholics Anonymous. And they have debates, and sometimes I agree with my father. You're right, the Bible does say that. It doesn't say it. And sometimes I argue with my sister. Prayer is good. And so every time you're honest with somebody like that, But I always, even if we disagree, if the discussion is done correctly, I always feel like I've learned something. So I know we're not supposed to talk about politics when we're at the podium or discussing it at a meeting, but I feel like with family and friends, I feel Like It's Okay is my point. Yeah, and if it's the culture of the family to have those kind of discussions, even heated ones, and they don't take it personally and it doesn't create the animosity that could come out of it, but it's just good solid kind of like learning experience, then it's wonderful. But if it's hurtful and people end up not talking to each other for a month or six years, then in fact it's not useful. So it's common sense there, isn't it? And the word I use, my filter, is it going to help? Is it going to help and with that filter then you can determine what will be the consequences of what your conversation is Okay But I really agree by definition a friend is somebody who you, I believe should be able to be transparent with Alright I kind of feel the same way about my sponsor, who we think alike a lot about politics. I couldn't be with somebody that thought just the opposite of me. Yeah, yeah. And then that's a personal choice, of course. Yeah. Yeah, I've had the experience of being at fellowship with people in the program and something somewhat controversial coming out. Oh, yeah, good point. It doesn't necessarily turn into a resentment type of thing as long as everybody treats each other with respect. I really like that. And the argument is more about informing them where you think they've got misformed opinions. They're just plain ignorant, right? Yeah, yeah. What did you say about ignorance is the formation of that I forgot what you said earlier but I wrote it down and you know if you can say well maybe you should take a look at this and it comes from a source that is reliable maybe you can change their mind but you don't necessarily to yes just justify your own opinion yeah yeah it depends on if you in fact you're engaged with somebody who has an open heart and an open mind in terms of the conversation then that would be part of an education it'd be wonderful yeah George alcoholic I just thought of something about the medication thing a group I go to great group a lot of sobriety there two of the guys are on medication but we've seen one of them off medication my god he is like as low as they can get suicidal and it's it's odd because nobody in the room judges him but every once in a while a speaker the outside speakers come and they just blast medication right but he's very smart and he's very articulate and he often straightens them out it's pretty interesting but it's nobody in this huge group but it is outside speakers that come yeah yeah I have no opinion well i've seen people actually four cases in my third years for four cases of people who have committed suicide because they got the information from somebody that medication was not sobriety and that they needed to give up their medication and when they gave up their medications they went into a place of darkness that they committed suicide and so there are very serious consequences of playing doctor yeah there you go yep yep so what about business opportunities that are generated in a meeting I mean over time we learn what people do and I mean or my god in my meetings lots of people have lots of money so maybe it would be okay because I know about them to approach them with the business transaction what What do you think of that? I'll even give my real name. Richard alcoholic. Hey, Richard. I'll never forget back in the 90s, I went to Hawaii, the big island and I used to live there. I moved there when I was a kid by myself but AA was completely torn apart. It was brutal to go to AA there because they had done this money game where you kind of it's it was like a pyramid to the max where you gave $100 and you would get $22,000 back and they'd all done. It's just a fool's game because the people that got in the beginning got their 22 grand or whatever it was. And man, it was it was bitter. It was the worst vacation I ever had because I love going to AA when I travel and I'll never forget that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, my bringing it up is just to make it visible. And that is it's not been a major issue. But over the 30 years, I've been approached twice by people. And it was in the room itself after the meeting that they came and they gave me their business card for some type of whatever it was. And I just looked at him and says, you know, that's just totally inappropriate here. Well, you know, they left the meeting and I never did see them come back. But still, any type of discussion like that would be totally inappropriate. Or you know that, wow, the guy next to me, he's a medical doctor for God's sake and I've got something to discuss with him. No, you don't. No,you don't That's what that man gets paid for. Make an appointment for his office and you can go if you feel like he's competent doctor but don't try to get a freebie in a meeting all right yeah yeah okay so um how about bumper stickers what do you think about that anybody i mean say what oh bumper stickers on uh I have the AA logo and something about I'm sober and loving it, and right next to it I have a picture of McGovern or some other candidate for politics. That still goes back a ways, huh? I tried to do that so I wasn't too relevant, right? Yeah, yeah, really, really. But see what I mean? All right. And or I don't have bumper stickers. I don'T believe in bumper stickers, all right? Because when I drive into an AA meeting, the last thing I want to do is create anybody's resistance talking to me about a problem. But you are open to somebody else having a problem? Oh, yeah. I mean... To me, that's what's up. You choose. Yeah, right. But I don' t judge you. If I come up behind you and you've got one that absolutely sends me off the rail, I don't mock at you. I just like you to have that. Let's see. You're a very unusual person. Other people scratch my car. No. Choking. Come on. Okay. Richard. When I was new, I had a bunch of stickers. I ate stickers on my car, and my sponsor who he drove with me once, he told me to take the stickers off my car Yeah, well I'm just raising consciousness think about the impact it might have on Preventing somebody from coming to you for help. That's all Carly Well, I mean, it's a potential. It's not quite the same, I don't think, although if you're from USC and you're wearing a UCLA fan shirt that might have some kind of issue. All right, let's go to question number five. Write a paragraph answering each of the following. Do you often feel you have the only proper and correct view? Are your opinions blocking your ability to listen with an open mind? Are you willing to be truly open to the experience and opinions of others without expressing your own? Anybody have a reflection on that or anything they wrote that they would like to read or summarize I'm Rob. I have a reflexion On that on the first question. Do I feel I have the only correct view to two points or two directions to go in the first is there's a a very famous play and film called 12 angry men oh yeah where one man and then the jury had the dissenting opinion and he had such conviction about it that he you know he proceeded to change everyone else's mind and you know i guess it's a fictional story so of course he was right and they you know saved someone's life but lo and behold a couple years ago i was on a jury. And we went in to deliberate and I found that I was the only person who had a dissenting opinion. And I'll tell you, it wasn't a criminal case so it didn't have to be unanimous, it was a majority thing and I realized that me having a dissent opinion in that case made no particular difference unless I could really persuade. So the second direction I would go in is, I think it was what Mitch was talking about, which is to look at not just action but intention. And I think that's very important because I almost always withhold my opinion, but it's not necessarily to avoid conflict. It's not necessary for the good of the group it's from it's for self-serving reasons it's to avoid hostility it's too it's its weakness it's not having the integrity to stand up for what I think is right often in that particular case you know after making some very weak arguments you know I just saw people weren't very interested in listening to what I have to say so I just shut up and went along with the group yeah well that's one of the, perhaps in a legal proceeding, that's on of the most important places where it is useful or it is appropriate to really have the strength of conviction and defend your position because in some cases there's people's lives or freedom at stake. So there I did not really fight for my opinion but I don't think the intention was correct. I think it was a selfish kind of self-protection. I always have to remember, you know, I have to in my pause when I'm thinking, do I speak or not speak? Do I act or not act? I really have to ask, why do I want to do this? Why am I thinking of doing this? Who is this serving? You know, whether it's action or inaction. Those are great consciousness making questions. It's the pause and asking those questions that will bring you to the correct action inevitably and eventually, but maybe not right away. But you'll learn from that as even you've been in discernment about that. So be very circumspect about that . Dan, I'm posting everything. Hi, it's Dan. Well, for me, the really hard one is with family members. With the world, I'm good. But with family member and people close to me who are alcoholic and I think I know an answer for them and I just want to know. No, you know you know an answers for them. That's right. And so how is your Al-Anon program? Yeah, that's right, yeah. Yeah, because we, you know, Al-Anon has a great saying about advice. Did they ask for it? So don't give it to them unless they ask por it. But if they ask tor it, how about both barrels? Absolutely. I got to share, I mean, my daughter is a fashionista kind of girl and she's getting married. so she's went to like five different places to look at dresses wedding yes to the dress and she kept asking me what do you think mom what do you think so she asked me for advice and i really was so thankful for alanon so i would just say wow you know and and uh well i like this part do you know so i was able to say honestly and i learned a lot through that program about how to say honestly well that's a nice little part down there on the end of the trail or the train and i just didn't say anything about cleavage or or the crossed or something and that is an incredible practice because i am a know-it-all you know and so so you made a positive observation about that which you could make a positive observation about there yeah but you didn't hurt your relationship hi my name is Greg hey Greg and yeah when a woman asks you how old she looks the best thing is to change the subject talk about the Lakers or something but I you You know, with that question, am I open-minded enough to accept another person's opinion? It really depends on how I consider the other person. Like my sponsor, I'm wide open. I can count the number of times I've said no to my sponsor on one hand. But if it's my autistic 12-year-old nephew, probably not so much. And it's too bad because maybe he's got a point that's, you know, and I guess, you know, I'm not open to everyone's opinion, which is just, I guess something I've learned. And then something I heard about earlier, you know, when you have a group conscience, everybody needs to participate for there to be a group conscience, you know? And I've only seen this in AA, not in any of the other fellowships that I participate in. I've already seen it a couple of times where one personality just kind of takes over the whole group and railroads, whatever it is they want to happen. And anyone who stands in their way just gets demolished, you know? and and it takes a lot of career and i'll end with this and one of the true the the concepts it says uh sometimes you have a duty to express your opinion you know when it's of grave importance i don't know what concept it is but i that's one of them yeah the principles i really hold on to yeah all right so let's take a look at question number six write a paragraph in light of your experience and tenure do you consider yourself an expert on your fellowship do you feel you carry the quote official fellowship position close quote on outside matters what is your attitude toward medications we've talked about that gatherings that blur the lines between aa and alan on local roundups or conventions sober cruises and treatment centers lots of grist for the mill there i wrote i have considerable information on history and extensive experience on the steps but i am not an expert there is no official a position on prescriptions we've talked about that I don't need to make any further comment it's about balance and information and also staying out of the way of the professionals but the role of the secretary as I understand it is in fact to manage and monitor the meeting so that it stays within the format and the spirit and the culture of the meeting you know that that needs a broad swath of course so I'm so glad you followed up. The best part is when you don't know what to do, don't do anything. That's for sure. Absolutely. All right. Well, our respective 12-step fellowships help their members maintain their personal recovery and encourage them to offer to share their recovery experience freely with others who have a similar problem. This we owe to our fellowship's future to place our common welfare first to keep our fellowship united for on unity depends our lives and the lives of those to come when anyone anywhere reaches out for help we want the hand of our fellowship always to be there and for that we are responsible after a moment of silence please join me in the prayer of st. Francis it's really the prayer of the peacemaker isn't it lord make me a channel of thy peace that where there is hatred i may bring love but where there wrong i may bring the spirit of forgiveness that where there is discord i may bringing harmony that where there is error i may bring truth that where there is doubt i may bring faith that where there is despair i may bring hope that where there are shadows I may bring light, that where there is sadness I may bring joy. Lord, grant that I may seek rather to comfort than to be comforted, to understand than to understood, to love than to beloved, for it is by self-forgetting that one finds, it is by forgiving that one is forgiven, it's by dying that one awakens to eternal life. Amen. Thank you. Have a great Thanksgiving, and we'll see you in December.