The Medicine and Healthiness Paradox of the Modern Age – Joe H.

I'm Joe Hawk. I'm a recovered alcoholic, and I say that because I believe the program of Alcoholics Anonymous works. It's taken me 20 years to believe it. I just had my 20th birthday, August 17th, and I'm very grateful for that, and I am more excited about Alcoholics Anonymous than I have been in the last 20 years. In the last six months, I've been in Texas, New York, Kansas City, Denver, Phoenix, and Palm Springs. And I have greetings for all of you from the Fellowship of the Spirit East. And I have an interesting story to tell you. At least it was interesting to me. About a month ago, maybe, maybe two months ago, I had a call from one of the members of this committee. I'm not going to mention anybody by name tonight. And if you believe that, that. You don't know me. And the same day I had a call from somebody from the Fellowship of the Spirit East. You could have changed the names, you could have changed the faces, you can change the coast and they were both talking about the same thing. And it wasn't pleasant. The spiritual life is not always pleasant It doesn't say that in the book. It says the spiritual life is not a theory, we have to live it. And living has to do with suffering, pain, pleasure, joy, bliss, grief, loss, commitment, responsibility, power. And they said that in their area in New York, there were like three main groups. Staten Island, New Jersey. and Queens. And that people doing the work were experiencing a lot of disunity, dissension, gossip, ridicule, judgment. And with my arrogance, I thought I was going to go there and bring about some unity. and I got there, and it was like, I don't know if many of you remember Godfather I, but there was a part in Godfather 1 called A Meeting of the Heads of the Families called Appalachia. And I told him when I got to New York and there was 300 of us, me and Mark Houston at St. John University, and I said this is like Appalashia II because we have the heads of the families from Staten Island. and Harlem and unfortunately there were 150 people in the first few rows from Harlem and something happens to me you got to know I come from halfway between Detroit and Chicago and something happens to be and I turned into a Baptist minister for about 45 minutes and something in the middle of that told me there was nothing I could do to promote unity except to continue my own personal recovery. The first tradition says that our personal recovery, my personal recovery my survival my life depends on the unity on unity. But the reverse must also be true that unity depends on your personal recovery covers. You gossip, you make amends. You talk behind somebody's back, you make amens. You don't go to this group, you pay the price. I mean, I remember a time when the only deal in town was Tuesday night at Second Hill and we were holding on to each other for dear life. I was five years sober and I had a selfish motive. All I wanted was some people that were doing what I grew up on in denver i didn't have any virtuous motive i didn never want to live the way i had been living five years earlier so you know and that phone conversation you know like i said you could have reversed the uh the coast it was the same conversation i heard from a member of this committee so I have a couple questions how many hear from the Denver group and how many from the Denver group have ever been to the Truth, the Light, and the Way how many hear from Tuesday night Santa Monica how many have ever been to The Truth, The Light, And The Way not bad how many from the truth of light and the way have ever been to the Tuesday group or the Denver group now wouldn't it be neat if the fellowship of the spirit of people that have entered the world of the Spirit in Los Angeles had a meeting once a month where we all came together because there's now and I'll tell you about a time in Los Angels where I didn't have anywhere to go where they were doing the work there were big book studies 12 and 12 studies I tried a lot of groups see I didn't I started coming to Los Angeles when I was one year sober I moved here when I was five when you're sober I fell in love with a girl that lived in Los Angeles she drank after nine years she just drank again after nine years and I heard my sponsor say something I never heard him say after 20 years when he saw her a month ago he said i had to tell her that i couldn't help her never heard don pritt say that in 20 years she's been on benzodiazepine pills for 10 years lying and alcoholics anonymous claiming to be sober she weighs about 350 pounds she was a child actress when i knew her she was was bulimic. And I heard my sponsor say he had to say to her he couldn't help her. She was ready to come down to Texas to treatment where I just was for six months, making the same mistake for the third time. Usually takes me three times to learn a lesson. And she was advised by friends in Seattle and her psychiatrist that treatment at this time wouldn't be a good idea. And she was being offered treatment for free, a scholarship by some really good people in Dallas, Texas. She didn't come. Another friend in June that I've known since my first meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous, Sandy Kenner died sober 30 years. But his heart shut down about two years ago, maybe three years ago. Last time I saw him, I walked away and I felt sad. I turned 50 June 4th. My mother died June 9th. Sandy Kender died June 13th. And I was let let go from a job with a guy that I really care about, June, July, something. And I've been at peace. With pain. With grief. Not avoiding the feelings by learning how to use 10, 11, and 12 really well just to avoid life rather than face it like I used to. Because I found out a secret after 20 years of sobriety. And if you don't find it, you'll never break the pattern that brought you to Alcoholics Anonymous or Cocaine Anonymous, and the pattern is if you're in any kind of pain, physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual, you've got to get back to peace. You've got to get back to comfort before you'll experience peace. That's a deadly trap, because I hate to tell you, but we're all going to get older. Impermanence is a reality. We're all going to have pain we're all going to lose people we're all going gonna have ups and downs see the unmanageability of my life doesn't change my perception of it does because life's going on and if anybody hasn't noticed it's getting a little crazy on this planet we're headed for some really hard times september 11th you know the shit's coming down and you're either going to get free or you're not. I'm dying, but I get to decide how do I want to die. My mother just did. My mother went like a Tibetan person, chose the date, told her kids, told them when to come. One of them wouldn't come.One of them wanted her to hold on, my sister. She said I'll wait. You come Sunday.My sister came up to Battle Creek, Michigan on Sunday. My My mom said to my sister, I've been waiting for you for four days. Your brother in Texas, we made peace a long time ago. He won't be coming for this. How did she know that? Your brother In Hawaii, we've made peace A long time ago. He won' t be coming For this. How did She know that And she said, do you need to say Anything because I'm going to lay Down now and they said what They wanted to say. She laid down and went To sleep. Doctor said he never saw Anything like it. last time I saw her two years ago ten minutes before I'm leaving she says this will be the last time we see each other and I wanted to say well couldn't you have mentioned this on Monday when I got here after 20 years of sobriety I still wanted my way with my mom my intuition said go in the bathroom, say a prayer and as I said a prayer my intuition was why don't you let her do it it the way she wants. And I asked, is there anything I need to say? Anything I need to do? And the answer was, no, you're clear. I don't know why I'm talking about that, but I used to know how to speak. And my friend Kevin, when he would go with me or when Sheldon would go with me, they'd say, are you going to just pop in a tape tonight you know because i can do that i can start on the title page and tell you about three parts of the program and three parts to the disease and i just can't do that tonight you know, because i'm getting to experience something tonight i've missed for five years even visiting and what i have missed for 5 years is people that i have history with and i have a history with people in this room i'm at a point in my life where i actually want I want to be known. But that's not the way my life and my sobriety was for a long time. I wanted to be loved, I wanted to be respected, I wanting to help people. But I didn't have this overwhelming desire to share what was in my heart. I do now. And I don't have to speak anymore. Say a prayer, open my heart, whatever comes out. Don't blame me. If it sounds good, I'll take the credit. it. If it sounds bad, we'll blame God, just like every other area of my life. I tried to bribe Rusty. I've known Rusty for many years. I try to bribey him, cajole him, brought him a set of tapes Mark and I just did in New York to not tape tonight or just magically let it be erased because I'm going to say some stuff, I think, because I care. You know, know, it was a hell of a risk to move to Los Angeles with five years of sobriety and not want to become popular. It's a really easy town to want to become popular I mean the whole deal is based on that isn't it? And I'll tell you from the day I arrived in Los Angeles when I finally moved here I was not popular but I was affected with people that were dying of alcoholism because people had been effective with me and they risked my sensitive alcoholic alcoholic feelings and cared more whether I lived or died than how I might feel about what they had to say. So, how can anybody in this room say they're getting closer to God if you're moving further away from each other? How can you say it? I feel closer to some people that I know in this room after not seeing them for five years except for a month or so when I visit than I did five years ago. Thomas Merton, who was effective in a man's life who has touched many of us in this room, Herb mentioned him last night, Dr. Jim Finley. He said that Merton toward the end of his life after like 40, I'm guessing, after many, many years in retreat and seclusion said that as he moved away from the world, he thought he was going to become some sort sort of a hermit or a recluse. And as he moved further away to his center, he became closer to people. I've had five absolutely unbelievable years that I wouldn't have traded for anything. And in those five years, I've been given the gift to experience one of those years in retreat. Four different times, three months. Sitting silently. with a great teacher, three months in silence. Before that I had a hard time to do a month when I was about 12 years old. Before that it was hard to go to Mount Calvary for a weekend and remain silent. It was also hard to stop drinking. It was all so hard to just stop trying to reach that place of oblivion when you didn't get any ease and comfort anymore. but the spiritual life, anything I've had to do in 20 years is like a mother's kiss compared to the way I was living 20 years ago. And we complain. I mean, I heard a lot of quality problems shared this weekend. I'm so busy. My God, how were you living 10 or 15 years ago? You had nothing to do. You had nothing but horrible, horrible time. Time. Oh, now I don't have enough time, right? I have money problems, right. My family is upsetting me, right。 My God, a few years ago you didn't even have a fucking family. You know, the Denver group, they complain about you know there's a crack in the pool at the truth of light and the way they complain about smoking crack in pool that's a luxury smoking crack in a pool I heard this a couple weeks ago and I thought it was funny or shit this guy said now I don't want to say any of you are crack addicts but a lot lot of you look crackish. That's some funny shit. Remember, I grew up halfway between Detroit and Chicago. I like to be in a room full of people where it's about life and death. I don't care what your truth is. You're responsible to find your own truth. Shelly said it. God God bless Shelly. She's got one of the biggest hearts of anyone I've ever met in my life and her husband. And she would have to be a saint to live with him as many years as she has. Jaime is a maniac, right? He couldn't make it home for two years six blocks from Brighton Beach Boardwalk with a shopping cart. And you're going to complain that you quit drinking because you almost lost that last job. And sometimes I used to forget that it is relative to where we come from. And I used say shit like, you know, my drunk-a-log's not really important. I love those speakers that get up and say, I'm not going to tell you much of my drunk a-log. And you go, oh, shit. 55 minutes later, you want them sober more than their own family did, right? Or the speakers, they get up and say, I don't have much to say tonight. And you're like, oh shit. I got a lot to say. I've been holding it back for five years because you know how I felt every time I would visit? If I was to say what I really wanted to say and then leave, that'd be a fucked up thing. Because I heard a story one time from my sponsor about a guy, he was actually from New York and I think his name was Jack something and he had one ear chopped off. He was a mafia guy and he got sober and he moved to Kansas City, Missouri and he started a group and it became a really effective group and then he went to Australia and he came back from Australia one time and he told them you've all ruined it. Destroyed the whole group and he went back to Australia. I thought my God the kind of harm that that causes to not let people have their own experience. Because, see, I found on this path there are some things that you have to care about. And there are Some things if you care about, you will go absolutely crazy. I'll give you an example. Imagine if you cared about what the people you worked with did with what you shared with them. Man, I would have gone crazy on Alton alone, right? Imagine if you care about carrying the message and being popular at the same time or not wanting to make anybody. You couldn't sit in a room with two alcoholics and make them comfortable at any given moment because how they feel is going to change every 10 seconds. How are you feeling now? Now I've got to say this. How are your feelings now? What do you want to hear now? Oh, you were too rough. Then you were Too Light. You'll never please another alcoholic. You'll never please yourself. There's only one thing that will ever please us, and that is something more powerful than alcohol or drugs. I don't care about pleasing anybody. I care whether you live or die because a lot of people are dying in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. And you know what I've seen in every town I've been in since I got back to America in January? Regular mainstream meetings. The attendance is really, really down and pockets where they're doing the work they're just getting exciting and it's growing like wildfire because we help those that we can't help I used to think I would look in a for somebody I could help sad thing is when you look in AA for somebody you can help you end up with a bunch of people that a human power can help I don't look for alcoholics I can help anymore I look for Alcoholics and addicts that nobody has been able to help and point point them to the thing that already is helping them and they don't know it yet. None of us wouldn't be here if something wasn't already working in our life. Drunk, sober, I don't give a shit. Something is working in your life. There's three kinds of sponsors. One points you toward yourself. You give them a call. Ah, just turn it over. Poomph. You give him another call. They say, just surrender. surrender you're literally like if i could surrender i wouldn't fucking be calling you right you call him again he says just smash your ego i've heard that before i'm gonna go home and smash my ego right did my fifth step went to my sponsor he gave me a list of my defects get the order i'm going going to work on him in and i'm working on humility god bless you god blesses us even when we think we're doing it and thank god none of us in this room had to call him by the right name to get here because i know a lot of you motherfuckers called him some some fucked up names and got here anyway only one name hmm only one personality women say they should change the name in the the book to she. The men like that it says he, so they can worship us. It says he. I'm a he. I went to this thing once and this guy said, there is no God. And the guy that took me said, we're going to hear a great talk about God. I said, I've heard some pretty good talks on God. He said, this is going to be a great one. I get there, there's this guru looking looking guy and he says, there is no God. And I thought for many years I had lost my attachment to conception rather than consciousness. It's a question you got to ask yourself. A lot of you think your conception in God, the ideas you have about God that you've drummed up in your head that begin to look more and more like you all the time is what keeps you sober. And this guy's saying there is not God. My head starts going like this, right? And then he starts into this shit about a car i don't know where this guy's going he said when's the car no longer a car take the wheels off steal a car pull the engine out still a car I don't what he's talking about then he does it with a human pull the arms off still a human, pull your legs off still a human. When is it no longer human? I don t know where all of this is going and then all of a sudden he says I d like to lead you in a prayer I said if there is no God what the hell is he going to pray to right He said, I would like to pray that we relieve God of the bondage. I said, what? He said let's pray to relieve God of the bandage of the personalities that we've imposed on him. Quit calling a verb a noun. And there is no God but there is nothing but godliness. And I was like boom and some old ideas went away. I mean anybody that's been writing inventory for any period of time has seen in their inventory that the further away they get from God, the more God starts to look like them. Or you've got this one-sided idea about God. God's all loving. God looks like this. I used to love to hear Alton talk about getting free of a white God that looked like the guy he went through the work with. I used to love hearing that. I respect anybody that's going for freedom rather than more knowledge and experience rather than more information. I've yet to hear a better example, but it's like the difference... Just imagine this. Think way back for some of you. For some of them, you've got to think way back. Now, I'm not mentioning anybody in particular, but you've gotta... I also figured out how you picked the three speakers this weekend. He's the oldest guy from the South Bay. I'm the oldest guy from Santa Monica and Daryl Jerry is the oldest guy from The Truth, The Light, and The Way. Not in sobriety. Age. I have a poem. A poem. It's called The Paradox of Our Age. We have bigger houses and smaller families. More convenience, but less time. We have degrees, but less sense. We have more knowledge, but less wisdom. We have more experts, but more problems. We have more medicine, but less healthiness. We've been all the way to the moon and back, but have trouble crossing the street to meet a newcomer. I added that. It says neighbor. Let's change the Dalai Lama's poem a little bit. We have more computers to hold more information, to produce more copies than ever, but have less communication with each other. We've become long on quantity but short on quality. These are times of fast food and slow digestion, tall men with short characters, steep profits and shallow relationships. It is a time when there is much more in the window and nothing in the storeroom. The Dalai Lama wrote that after his visit with George Bush. It's fucked up. Now this, this thing here I'd like to say a couple things about. The fourth edition of the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. Nobody that works with others should use this book. It's going to be changed. They made a big mistake. And because of people like Don Pritz and other people that we know, they're going to change it because they made a Big Mistake. The General Service Conference of Alcoholics Anonymous gave one person permission to change the paper cover, which none of us ever read for a long time, right? Because you're more ashamed of being sober than you were of being drunk. you broke my anonymity oh my god i've made a fool of myself in the town my whole life you break my anonymany for being sober and i'm more ashamed of being sober than i was of being drunk i'm just a loose cannon they gave one person permission to change the paper cover and the forward to the fourth edition with no reread no approval by the conference and this is what they changed. Now I'm not sure about karma but the lady died six months later. I'm going to say anything about that. The forward to the fourth edition the one inside here it says your home group around the corner is same as a meeting online. Now they could have said a meeting on line might help you get in touch with us so you can meet one of us face to face. They might have said if you're in a foreign country like India for five years. Uh-oh. The roof's going to cave in, right? We just destroyed the fellowship of the Spirit. You've got to shake them up to wake them up, though. Huh? Huh? God, some of these white guys on these panels today were like... I'm so happy. they're not happy. They're just numb, right? There's a big difference between comfort, freedom, and numbness. Anesthetized, being anesthetized. I like that word. Then it says modem to modem, face to face. Now what am I going to do? Let's see if I wanted to do... I mean, I'm lonely in India. I want a meeting, right. I come online, right。 What am I gonna say? My name is Joe. I'm a fat 50-year-old, 20-year sober alcoholic. Anybody out there can help me? No, I'm going to say, my name is Sally. I'm 19 years old, brand new in the program, having problems with sex. Can anybody help me, right? I bet I would get more attention than I would telling what I really am, right. And I'll tell you what, Tuesday night's gotten pretty bad, but it's not as bad as on a meeting online. We still look each other in the eye. We don't ask each other questions anymore, but we still look at each other eye to eye. Sometimes we know where the other person's at. Sometimes we don't. Sometimes we talk behind their back. And we have to ask ourselves, Sheldon said it today. Do I really care or have I signed some sort of unwritten death pact with my buddies? The guys that really care about me. Now you don't say anything to make me uncomfortable and I won't say anything to make you uncomfortable and we'll just frolic off to God together or die an alcoholic death what's your choice to be let's see dying alcoholic death or become accountable and talk to the people you say you care about but see mmm I think I'll die an alcoholic death, you know? But they made a atrocious mistake on the paper cover. The paper cover used to say page 1 through 164 is the AA message, just as it was originally published in 1939. I don't know if you've noticed this, but it now says page 1 through 164 had been the foundation for many alcoholics it's not even the message anymore it's something that had been and the way it's worded if you read it they might as well have said for those poor bastards who have to do what's in this book right that's how it sounds to me had been The Foundation for Many Alcoholics shit the process in this boat got me in touch with the creative intelligence of the universe And we take that for granted sometimes. You know how many people there are in churches and therapy offices that have been striving, religious men? And they say to you, Herb, what have you been doing for the last 12 years? Well, I formed a personal relationship with the creator of the universe. Whoa. But there's no big deals. That's like when your sponsor tells you when you're new, don't make any major decisions in the first year. Three weeks later, they're saying, now you're ready to decide to turn your entire will and life over to the care of God? And they wonder why we're confused. When you're new, they've got to do two things. They've only got to be they've only gotta do two things when you're knew. Hook your ego into believing you're doing something to keep yourself sober and keep it confused at the same time. Right? How do I surrender? to win. Surrender to win? Now, nobody from South Central was ever taught that when they were coming up. To surrender to win, that was not the philosophy in the Michigan State Penitentiary when I was there for a couple years. I'm happy to say I remain celibate in prison. in my religious monastic training, right? Herb was at seminary. I was in the Michigan State Penitentiary. We both learned neither one worked. I never went back again and he never went back again either, right. Same thing. Seminary, penitentiARY, bar, AA meeting. I got a great story. this is about the people in Alcoholics Anonymous and the people surrounding Alcoholics Anonymous whose message has filtered into our program who want to keep you in illusion and it's about a guy who arrives, he's a newcomer arrives at a meeting or a bar, doesn't matter you can tell it either way and he goes to the meeting or the bar and he walks in and as he's walking in there's a guy stumbling out of the meeting or the bar see most a meetings are like a bar right they're just dealing out little drinks at a time you know some are mad dogs some just do a little aa till they feel better some just sit at the tables drink aa till THEY feel good to go home choke on their own gratitude but some in there some people in the bar and in the AA meeting are maddogs and I have a feeling I don't want to to call any of you mad dogs, but I think several of you do look mad dog-ish, right? There's a few mad dogs here still. And as he's walking in, there's a guy stumbling out of the meeting or the bar, whichever it is. And he gets in an imaginary car, starts an imaginary engine and drives off. Now, he's a newcomer. He's not going to say anything. He'm not going to say nothing about telling the guy the truth, whether it's in the bar or the AA meeting. It doesn't matter. Second time he comes, same guy leaving. Visible car, imaginary engine, drives off. Third time, the newcomer cannot stand it any longer. Watching this guy in his invisible car driving around drunk. Third time he says to the bartender or the head of the AA group, who's that guy that's always leaving in the invisible car with the imaginary engine? He said, oh, he's here every night. He comes here every day. Every night. shut up, you're a newcomer. Take the cotton out of your mouth and put it in your ears or whatever that was they used to tell us, right? That's what they told me. I heard it wrong. I was shy. I was dry and withdrawn when I arrived here to Alcoholics Anonymous. I was. I could barely speak to one person when I got to treatment 20 years ago. So what did they do when I went to treatment? They said, you can't talk to anybody from 8 to 5. God bless them. Ready for my graduation? They didn't give me a graduation. They said, there's not much hope for you. The director of the program was a room full of people ready to graduate. Thank God for him because I left treatment with no hope. It's a hell of a thing to leave treatment with hope because you know the kind of hope I always leave treatment with what I am going to do to keep myself sober. I was just working at a place this girl comes to me one day. 23 times in treatment. She's crying. She says, I'm confused. I said, why? She said, I've been sitting with you for the last two and a half months and I finally got close to the first step and the staff told me that since I was so close to my first step I was ready for my relapse prevention plan of what she could do to keep herself sober when she left treatment. And every time I left treatment, I left with that kind of hope. And the funny thing about that kind of hope that you get from the steps or a sponsor That's pointing you toward yourself or the bar or the AA meeting that kind Of hope it's really deceiving because you know what it feels good The ego loves it I'm gonna do this and this and and this in this and I'm not going to end up back in that liquor store But the fucked-up thing is for people that do the work is we make fun of those people that we call that other AA That's a big mistake. That's one of the mistakes the Denver group made. Because I knew some of them when they started. I knew all of them. They said, we want to go down to Manhattan Beach or Hermosa Beach or where it is and promote unity in that area and they started by calling themselves the name from another city. It's insane. The Denver group. Well, where is it? Everybody I told about the three groups that were putting on they'd say, say, well where's the Denver group? In Denver? Right? No, Hermosa Beach. So the third time he sees this guy walking out drunk, gets in his imaginary car, drives off. He finally has the guts to say to the guy at the meeting or the bartender, who's that guy? He says, oh he does that every night. He'll get in his car, drive around, he'll come back when we open in the morning. He does that all the time. And the guy said, why don't you tell Tell him the truth. He said, tell him the truth? Are you kidding me? He pays me a hundred bucks a week to keep his car clean. Once somebody's invested in you staying in your illusion, you're going to stay in your illusion because you can't fool a deceiver. I've been on the path long enough to get free of every religion I've ever approached because every religion I've ever approached, and I've had some good teachers, was based on two things that we used to base the work on. Fear and greed. The fear, boogeyman's going to get you, you're going to go to hell, you'll drink again, and if you do this work, you will get the keys to the kingdom. Fear, greed. Fear, greedy. And you keep wondering why you got to do the work over and over and over because greed don't ever satisfy an alcoholic or a drug addict. There ain't never going to be be enough until you find peace where you are. Until you start to find peace in the middle of pain without having to get really good at 10 and 11 to avoid it, to always come back to it. Get free where you is. Drop the idea that you're ever, ever, EVER going to finish amends or get any of the promises because it'll just be like a carrot that will drive your nose into the dirt you write inventory you start to see your ego something happens in one two and three that pulls you far enough do you know how many people that have been in therapy for 20 30 years that would love to have the distance from themselves that we get from the first three steps to even see themselves they never get out of them so they just live a life of self as best they can. The book says any life run on self-will can hardly be a success. One of the mistakes we made is we always brought it to just us. Look around your life at other people who are living lives based on self. See if you can find a role model with another program or another plan that will help you to continue life based on itself and give that a choice. give that a check it out because see they talked about all 12 steps today but none of them talked about the step that all of us every one of us have been in everyone in this room has been on a step that nobody talked about today because it ain't in 1 through 12 it's step 0 nobody talked about step 0 now what's step zero I'd love to say I came up with it but I didn't somebody from the truth and light and the way shared it with me Step zero is that period of time from your last drink until you submit yourself to the first step of Alcoholics Anonymous. And you know why they call it zero? Because it's round and round and around eliminating all your options until you get down to two that when you do the work, you don't find out you have those two either. And that's to die an alcoholic death or live on a spiritual basis. And I'll present you with this idea. No one in this room has been successful dying an alcoholic deaf. Hallelujah. hallelujah. Can I get an amen? I love that. I love that. And nobody in this room is really successful at living life on a spiritual basis, or you wouldn't be doing the work. You'd be living life on a special basis. So that's the fucked up thing about experiencing step zero. The first year it's going to be this 90 meetings. If 90 means good, and I'm going to go to 270. I got seven commitments. A guy called me once, he said, I go to seven meetings, I have four commitments and I call three people every day and my sponsor told me if I doubled that I would feel better. And I said, I don't think twice the amount of bullshit is going to make you feel any better than half that amount of bullshits. If I just do some more, right? And therein starts the pattern for us because here's how crazy we are. right we're not the chosen ones the ones that need to do the work we're not even the chosen one's in aaa the chosen ones are the ones they get to go get free we're still paying our ticket right but we're not the chosen ones and we ain't better than anybody in aa either oh we do the work oh i'm sorry you're that sick you have to do all three parts of aaa you know what i found out in inventory by writing about those people that don't have to do the work i want to be one of them because i hate them because they don't have to do the job and i do until you get on the other side of it but then i wrote a little more and you know what i found out my judgment about what anybody in aa needs to do is based in agnosticism because i'll believe god's working in my life but not anybody else in aa especially if they're they're not doing it the way we think they should. Agnosticism. And I wasn't just an agnostic once. I'll tell you about agnisticism I discovered in the last six months in the first three steps. Mark Houston, God bless him, he's like a brother, he kept me in the set-aside prayer and the first two steps for seven months. Longer than the first time I was in the work. Why? Because he wanted to help break this pattern that goes like this. You've got to be all fucked up in the first step. And if you're not showing symptoms of being all fucked up when you've been doing the set-aside prayer, it doesn't work. And he wanted me to find peace in the work to come to a first step that wasn't based in fear or grief. I found peace in this set-a-side prayer. Now, I lost the job that I was working at, but I didn't give a shit about that either because I'm at peace. I tried to work in treatment for the third time sober my sponsor said is three times learning the same lesson enough and the lesson was nothing I've always loved every client I've ever talked with every group I've never done but I've also always had trouble with so called recovering professionals that are not interested in clients getting free they're interested in keeping them in their invisible cars driving around all night writing their their relapse prevention plan, another girl comes to me crying. We had just looked at her inventory. She's been in 10 treatment centers. She's ready to die. She is 57 years old and she says she's got a clear inventory and she's crying. She says I'm confused. I said why? We just looked at your inventory. It's clear. She said well I took the inventory to my counselor and showed it to my consular and my counselor gave me a pamphlet on how to manage anger but the book says I can't manage anger any more than I could alcohol. I'm confused. How many degrees do you have? Because she told me I got a degree in lying, the Michigan State Penitentiary shooting enough dope to find out I'm not a real addict. But we're going to go to somebody who's is going to share with us that the spiritual life is a theory. So how do you bring about unity among groups that don't want to be unified? Personal recovery has to continue. You know, if Mike Dolphin would only come back to the truth and light in a way and be respected in the way that he should be respected everything would be fine that man he's got to get free you got to let the baby go or they'll kill you i wish i was trained in psychology a little bit better but there's a term for it to kill the king and everybody i've ever worked with has to do it in one way or the other they got to make you wrong to get free but then they can become a friend and a peer or they can become someone who helps you with your inventory on a regular basis thank God for everybody that's ever pissed you off I know a man who says that you and I should dedicate our spiritual practice to our enemies both internal and external because they're the ones that continue to bring us to it over and over and over again. How can you hate resentment when it brings you back to God? How can any of you hate alcohol or crack when it brought you to God. How can you hate someone that makes you feel resentment when you find out they didn't make you feel resent but they brought something up in you that was already there because if you're free can't nobody piss you off can't. Nobody scare you can't Nobody make you resentful they can just bring things up in you that are already there. He He made me feel. They used to come to Tuesday night. This meeting makes me feel like... No, it doesn't. Questions are asked there that bring up stuff that's already there. Why are we afraid of questions? What do we have to defend? You know what? There's not one person in this room that could ask me any kind of question whatsoever that I could possibly think of that I wouldn't want to respond to. But I found that out by talking with the people that I care about. And we found that ought about asking questions and making mistakes. and then we made a big mistake. We did exactly what the big book says, and that's what that group's been doing for a long time, as outlined in the book. There's a part in the books that we forget. God will constantly reveal more to you and to us, but mention something outside of the book in some of these groups where they got it all in a little box. You know what? Here's what we forget, get nobody had five years when the first 164 pages were printed and we know people that have been doing the work three four five six seven eight nine ten times longer than anybody had when the first 1604 pages were painted but let somebody mention an experience they had of god constantly revealing experience to them outside of the little box that you and your group make and you're ready to kill them because we got our little list and you better not mess with our little lists we'll We'll make fun of those people in that other AA that we think we're different, separate, and better than. We're actually worse, more fucked up, and need all three parts of the program and wish we could be like them, right? I found everything I ever wanted in the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. Six months in the fellowship, I was ready to die and I was pissed off at everybody that was getting free. I didn't find everything I every wanted in the scholarship. I was dying in the membership And then I heard my great-grandsponsor say, not drinking and going to meetings doesn't treat alcoholism. It's that simple. So we'll make fun of those that have their little list because it doesn't sound quite like our list. I choose not to drink. Bullshit. I just go to meetings no matter... I just don't drink no matter what. Oh, that's crazy. I call my sponsor every day. I'm accountable. I have commitment and structure and bang, bang. bang, and thank you for this and thank you for that. And they're sober. And they are dying. But after many years of doing the work, don't you have your little list? I will tell you how I find mine. A man that Herb mentioned last night, Rod Squires, God bless him, moved to Los Angeles from Frank's group in Denver. Of course, he is the only one I can go through the work with that year. I didn't have the dignity, I didn' t have the respect to go through the work avec people that I had had worked with, because I forgot who got helped more. I forgot that I got helped more than they did. So I got to go to Rod Squires and I show up at his house and he says let's go to the liquor store. I said great. He said I've known you, you've been in our group in Denver, you'd been on some of our retreats. Let's go the liquor store! I said, great! He said no right here in the living room. He says now describe it. You're 12 years sober, you just pulled up to the liquor store what is it like how does it feel i said you know i'm not feeling much at all it's just one of those days when they're you know I can handle rage I can't handle joy but you know those days the ego hates when you're just not feeling at all he says describe your wall is it brown or is it clear I said my wall has always been clear he said what do you choose I said, I've got to have a liter of flavored vodka because I never had one when I was drinking. Citronelle, whatever it's called. I always see it when I'm in a liquor store. It always says, you know what it says to me? You've never tried me. Every other wall I look at, I haven't tried them all. But I love vodka with a little bit of flavor. He says, how is it now? And I'm buying it. I'm at the cash register. Get out to the car. He said, now tell me where that first leader would take you. And I start into this long, elaborate story of where I thought that first reader would take me. He shook his head. He said you better go home. You better pray about this. And have you ever woken up in the morning laughing at yourself? I woke up one morning in the next week laughing at myself because you know what I realized? I don't have a fucking clue where that first leader will take me What if nothing happened? what if i what if when the spiritual malady is overcome you straighten out mentally and physically and the grace of god could be there to protect you from the craving he has i've ingested alcohol several times sober once at a party i thought it was a glass of water i didn't sniff it i didn't sip it i drank it nothing happened how do i know nothing would happen see i don't believe in the drinking test anymore and i read marty man's primer on alcoholism we had it all wrong if somebody is in this room in the grace of god because you're not drunk today how do you know if you took the test and you passed it wasn't you were safe and protected from god if someone is still drinking and they want to stop that pattern of craving try and stop it abruptly try and step over and do some controlled drinking when you're still drinking because you don't know how deep the grace that god goes and we have some friends that that have checked it out, and I respect them, and some of them got free. And we were all asked, how far would you be willing to go to continue to discover truth? Not everybody that goes out of AA goes out behind insanity. Some graduate. Some go off to bigger and better things because they're hooked by the old AA was kindergarten, but you come on over to Millennium and we're going to save you because AA was kindergarden, but we got more for you and you're an alcoholic and you're nine years sober and you've never done the work and you get hooked by what an alcoholic gets hooked by. It only takes one word to hook an alcoholic, more. We've got more, right? Not everybody that goes out goes out behind insanity. Some go out by the grace of God. I came back, I told him, I said, Rob, I don't have a clue where that first leader would take me. He said, I might die that night. I might show up at someone's door. I might end up in Tijuana. I might come to a meeting the next day just fine and not ever tell anybody. How do I know? He said okay, check this out. He said would you be willing to quit speaking and working with people until you get through your next set of amends and got up and went to the bathroom? These guys from Denver are spooky and they have perfect timing. and my mind said oh it's one of those trick questions and if you say you're willing you won't have to but if you stay you're not willing you'll have to then I watch what my mind did with the question what would happen to those poor people I'm working with because you know what I still suffered from the delusion that I can help another alcoholic God ain't got much to do with it because we're still new in the process that I I used to think I could get people through the work. I used to think I could take people through the work and I used to use terms like maybe I can get so-and-so to this place. I don't suffer from that anymore. I can't get another alcoholic anywhere. I can' t take anybody through the works because I'm not God. And how do they say it? God has either removed the obsession or He hasn't. But you know the one that I love and I think Lois wrote it actually. I don' t know. These historians would know better. But I love the guy that he describes or she describes when she says he wants to want to. Aren't you baffled sometimes by those people that go out for two days and then get themselves back to a meeting? You know the guys I understand, they've only got one shot at that grace. Those merry-go-rounds that are closed in that each have a little window they only line up once. New one, one of the guys that I've watched drink in amends hadn't been very many And you know, Shelly and I were trying to think not too long ago of how many we knew that drank after completing a set of amends. At least once. Not very many. And I'm not a gambler. The founders of Truth, Light, and the Way told me that there's been times at the Truth, the Light, and the way where it's no longer a CA meeting. It's a GA meeting and you're all sitting around rolling the dice gambling with your lives. No traditions. Funny money, people shooting other people, all kinds of stuff. But I understand that kind of stuff, and I'm not going to mention any names, but I understand the kind of things that you do. You understand that type of stuff because you disrespect the people that had what you want because you don't respect yourself. Compassion for other people doesn't come from learning about compassion for other People. Compassion For Other People comes from finally having some compassion for yourself and coming to some sort of loving acceptance for that part of your being which will always be human and you stop perpetuating violence on yourself by always trying to change yourself in your own image. I've given up on personal growth. I'm 50 years old, this is it. Whatever God wants to do, I give up but I ain't doing no more personal growth because it's always my plan of what I'm going to become. It's just like writing the third column and then writing some fourth column and saying, oh my God, look at what a slut I've been. So now I'll become a whore. I mean, I'm sorry. So now, I'll be a whoreshirt. Now I'll come a nun. And all the personalities do is get up and change seats. They never get smashed. Rambo takes classes in being a little more passive. The passive guy takes lessons in beinga little more assertive. I don't have a clue what God wants me to be. If you would have told me five years ago when I was in Santa Monica you see here's what I've experienced every groove you know when you get in a groove you're hot until the next time you write inventory about that period of time when you thought you were really hot but you know what every groove has become for me every groove that I've ever gotten in an AA becomes a rut and every rut becomes a casket and every casket has one nail at a time being driven in it and at 15 years I hit bottom with stuff that I was encouraged courage to do in alcoholics. Not by its nature, by what I did with it. And what I did with was more, more. If speaking this much is this cool, then speaking twice as much would be that cool. Because that's how my mind works. More is better. And I was speaking too much and I was working with too many people because I thought I could help alcoholics and I could take people through the work. I've given up taking people through the world. that doesn't mean i won't share with you my experience of how you might possibly find a deeper relationship with something that's already there if you're an alcoholic or an addict all you need to know it's there they're already there's nowhere to get there's no where to get find peace you know what i did and i always said i was going to try this i told some of you in dallas texas i I almost said it again. I watched four people get to inventory. Two of them, I told they were going to be all fucked up and two of them I told they were gonna have a joyous experience in inventory. And you know what? They experienced exactly what I told them they would. Don't let anybody do that. Don't letting anybody tell you you gotta be fucked up in the set-aside prayer. Don't anybody tell your inventory is a miserable experience. Inventory is so powerful it takes what you think is the truth I'm sorry it takes what you think is a lie that you would fight to your death for why you mad she left me oh really week later why you're mad she left me first column second column third column fourth column holy shit she didn't leave me I drove away and what I do now with the fourth column this ain't nothing fancy. This just came to me alone in India, right in Invento. Because five years in India I didn't transgress alcoholism. As I became more awake, I became more awake. I stay in the fourth column until I can rewrite the first two. You stay in the forth column until it turns all three firsts, all the three columns into a lie. And every time I've done that, every one of them is either toward me or God. And then I take those and I I write four columns on those. That's a fucking inventory. A lady said to me one time, you're in inventory? I said, yeah. She said, what's the most important relationship in your life? I wanted to say me, but I had the audacity to say God. She said have you ever answered the nine questions from the sex inventory about your relationship with God? I said no. And I get to see the grace of what I do with power. You see, you think lack of power is a dilemma? I'll tell you what, But having power is a dilemma too. But I'd much rather have some than not have some. Nelson Mandela wrote a poem, I Wish I Had It, I Wish You Knew It. Some of you probably know it. And it's a poem about being more afraid of the dark and being powerless and irresponsible than the light and being responsible. And that's my experience in Alcoholics Anonymous because you've got to surround yourself by people that raise the bar, not lower it. Oh, I'm all fucked up today. day oh that's okay you're just alcoholic i'm having trouble with my meditation don't worry it's not about alcohol it's just a living problem you'll learn how to meditate you'll become wonderful but nobody says to you does that fucking inventory have anything to do with alcohol anymore i heard a lady in dallas and i'd love to say that i came up with it but she's from south central and her name's lily and she was in the tuesday night group for years and now she's She's in Dallas, and she said something that made so much sense to me from what I'm seeing around the country and with my own experience. She said you can go forward through the steps, you can get stuck on the dash in either direction. Stuck on the dashboard. Going forward, what happens there? All of a sudden you're in inventory, and it's not about being powerless over alcohol, it's about the unmanageability, and you do four through nine based on the un-manageabillity because you're stuck on the dash going forward. And the inventory doesn't have nothing to do with being powerless over alcohol or crack or drinking again. Or you're in amends and you're struck on the dashboard and you have a dash going backwards. And all of a sudden, the last few amends don't have anything to do with being powerless over alcohol. I say to you that I've had experiences where the further away I get from one, the further way I get form one. My mind actually told me one time, step one is only true when you're into it. i've also had experience including the one i'm in right now where at each pertinent point there is no fear there is only the realization of grace and my experience with the first step is deeper because you know what fear of drinking again doesn't scare me into the work anymore if fear works the first couple times the boogeyman on your ass and your sponsor who who wants to keep you sick, scares you into finishing four. God bless him if you get through amends. But watch out you don't have a sponsor that's never gotten through amens because nobody he works with will ever get through an amends I've never seen it to this day. I've not seen anybody stuck in amends all of a sudden the people there working with them are just zooming by. You better find a sponsor that has had an awakening as a result of the steps and not an awakening as a resultado one through nine and a half because a lot of people are going around this program telling people they've been through the steps two, three, four times. They've never finished a men's once and they haven't had an awakening as a result of the steps. They've had a major awakening as a resultado of one through nine and a half and nine and three quarters. Oh, got to get another workshop. You just start to experience some power and some peace and some happiness and some joy and here's how tricky the ego is. The ego can use the work to keep you from doing the work. you ever seen somebody using 12 to avoid 9 are you finishing amends no but I'm working with a lot of people because all of a sudden working with people is on their imaginary list of things they're doing that sounds better than those people's list of what they're doing all of the sudden you got a slicker list a cooler list a better list that sounds bettter than those people that just don't drink no matter what of what you're doing to keep yourself sober I do the work. If you can do the work to keep yourself sober, there must be some reservation in the first step that you can do something to keep yourself sober. We do the work by the grace of God. From the grace of God. And is it possible God gives you the power to seek Him and is it possible He may have even used alcohol or crack to bring you to Him? Who's brought more people to God than the devil? Oh, devil's bad. evil and good are not separate god is either everything or nothing he's either got a bigger plan or he doesn't he's neither just as much involved in september 11th as he is when our side is fucking bombing them or he isn't what is your choice to be i don't want to get into politics takes. Sponsor has a sponsee living in his house, big house. Sponsee's at this end, sponsor's at this end. Sponcer thinks the sponsees stealing some of his cigars. Doesn't know how to handle it. So he's wondering what can I do? Finally gets an idea and from his room he yells out I think my sponse is stealing my cigars! Nothing happens. I think my sponsee is stealing my cigars nothing happens he goes down to the sponsees room and says did you hear anything he said i didn't hear a thing he said really he said you didn't hear anything just then he said I didn't here a thing. He said okay go down to my room yell something out and I'm going to see if I can hear you in your room. Sponsee goes down He goes down to his room and says, My sponsor's fucking my wife! Says it again. Nothing happens. Goes back to the room. Says to the sponsor, Did you hear anything? Sponsor says, I didn't hear anything. Would you like to join me in a cigar? It's fucked up. What time is it? What time are we at? Five till what? Oh, shit. i found my first step in the grace of god in the realization of the grace of god you know what in the realization of the grace of god there's no fear in the first step because let me ask you this how can you fearlessly face the proposition that god is everything or nothing if you're afraid it says we had to fearlessly face the proposition that god is everything thing or nothing how can you go to we used to say shit like you can't go to the second step in a good mood why not why not yeah so you're hearing a guy that for five years had to blow through the box because i wasn't in a box i didn't have fellowship for five ears there were there were drunks i'm like a drunk magnet right which either means i'm i'm a hardcore al-anon or I'm an alcoholic. Who cares about alcoholics? I almost married an Al-Anon. But I fell in love with an alcoholic who loved to work and loved working with people and loved God and loved the Tuesday group. And here I am going all over the country talking about the 12 steps. She's seven years in AA, feeling a little confused, comes to our group, picks the strongest woman in the group, starts in the work. We're going to get married. We make a healthy decision. we're not going to have sex and for me that's a healthy decision at that time we're gonna become friends because every relationship we ever had was based on sex maybe one day the sex isn't so great there's nothing to fall back on because you're not friends we did a healthy thing she starts to work she gets through amends she's not an alcoholic from daddy to every boyfriend she ever had she's a full-blown Eleanor and she's not passive anymore and she is not peaceful because her peacefulness I fell fell in love with her illusion. And what was I going to say? Don't get healthy? And she had to get strong and assertive and take care of herself and quit being a doormat and wasn't crazy about God, wasn't Crazy About the Work, cared about herself for the first time in her life, was getting healthy. And I lost a woman I wanted to spend the rest of my life with to the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous in therapy with Jim Finley. Doesn't get any better. Damn it. because the spiritual life is not a theory and you can control theories. You can't control life if you care about people enough whether they get free or whether they stay sick. And how could I have said to myself, here's somebody I love that I want to spend the rest of my life with but I want her to stay sick so I can stay in love with what I fell in love with and she shouldn't get healthy? Three years ago I made a decision. I chose to be celibate. I'll say that to some guys and I'm not going to mention any names but I'll just say I've been celibate for three years and they'll say, by choice That's fucked up even when you've got a little bit of humility By choice Like if you could get some you would, wouldn't you? Fuck that And you say by choice choice because i made a decision that until i'm with someone that i'm ready to make a commitment with i didn't like what it was doing to my spiritual connection for the first time in my life and it wasn't guilt anymore that i used to live on because i didn'T want to harm them that's a good thing to live ON until you can't live on it anymore that's A pretty cool thing for a sociopath who never cared about anybody but yet we got groups all over los angeles that that if you're feeling any shame or guilt or anything like that, they tell you it's bad. I'll tell you this, there's places for people who live like us who don't feel any shame or guilt when they get sober. And they're called sociopaths. And if you are starting to care, wouldn't it be amazing for an addict from south central LA to be able to say, I'm afraid. Because you never were. You never could be. wouldn't it be amazing from someone from the Denver group to say I'm 12 years sober and I'm fucking dying nobody's talking to me anymore they tell me I'm doing great and I am dying inside and wouldn't be great if somebody from Tuesday night said this this would be the hardest thing for somebody at Tuesday night to say I don't know Somebody asks a question at Tuesday night and Dan Sherman says, I don't know. I would get on my knees and praise God. You can't not know at Tuesday nights. You've got to come up with something. When they used to ask those questions that start with, is it possible? I'll tell you one GW asked me once. I said I was willing to make amends to this certain person He said, are you really? I said, I'm absolutely willing. He said is it possible you're not willing and you'll know the moment you are? And I said I am willing. How will I know the woman the moment I am? He said the moment you're willing to make that amends you'll hear a really strange noise that you haven't heard yet and I don't think you're willingly. And I asked what would the strange noise be? And he goes like this. Fucked me up. me knocking on her door or another strange voice for one of us to say i was wrong somehow could say the hardest three words for us is i love you any alcoholic in this room knows those are the three easiest where you can say it between you can stay between a democrat and a Republican at the same time and get away with it. I love you. Well, I love You. Shit. It's hard for me to say there's nothing I can do to keep myself sober. You know what I think they mean by any lengths? That's what I thing they mean by any length. But when you're new they got to hook you. Are you willing to go to any length? Yep, I'll do this and this and this and I got a 60 day chip and I've got a conscious contact with God because I've drummed up some ideas I heard from Big Mike and I got a conscious contact and it ain't nothing but ideas and words. But you've got to hook them with what they've got. Don Correus always told us, when you meet a newcomer, use what they got. And I ain't yet to meet a new comer that ain't got a lot of ego left. Even when they're beat to the ground. The ego will tell you something. You can do it now. It might have been bad yesterday, but you got it under control today. They told you. They told you at the meeting. Charlie said, I got a choice today. I must have a choice of day if he has a choice today. I'll just smash my ego, work on my defects, surrender and turn it over. And then slowly but surely they strip those right out from under you one at a time. We do it with a prayer. My sponsor pulled a joke on me a couple weeks ago in Denver. I got to spend some time with him. Don Pritz looks like Yoda now. He has no hair and he's just like a little little round guru, you know, just a little enlightened being. We sat in his meditation room. He has a meditation room. You know, you got to have a place. You got to have a space to meditate before you can meditate. Where are you going to meditate? Oh, I don't know. I'm going to mediate over in that corner in the kitchen. No, first you gotto have some time. You gotta make time. But if meditation doesn't have nothing to do with you drinking or using again, why would you make time? You've got a busy life. Meditation can't possibly be connected to the first half of step one because you're stuck on the dash. It's a great phrase, ain't it? Stuck on the dashboard. Stuck in the dash, whoo! Fuck. You've gotta make time. You've Gotta have a reason to make time because an alcoholic or an addict trying to do meditation out of virtue because you know the line that sums it up? The idea that we are like other people or presently maybe has to be smashed. I always thought that meant, you mean I'm not like other people when I'm drinking? No. You mean I're not like others when I get the obsession? No. You mean, I'm like other when I have the spiritual malady? Nope. In a fit spiritual condition, if you've ever written inventory about that period of time and you didn't see that you're not normal people, I don't know what you didn' t see or present may be. You know why some of you from the truth, I got to tell you, you know why some of you from the truth that lighten the way are scared of meditation? Because every time you heard you have the right to remain silent. It's greater the shit out of you Fucked up That's fucked up I'm a horrible person You know why something from the Denver group are scared to meditate Because they don't know they have the right to meditate. I've heard mothers say, I've got five children. How can I meditate? They're all up by 6 a.m. Get up at 5. Can't do the evening review. I'm always tired. Do it before they come home. End your day when you want. Start your day when you need to. do upon awakening when you wake up, not just when you get out. You can wake up on the way. You can't meditate in the car. Why not? Meditation is different in the car than it is on your meditation chair? You got a real problem. There's no difference between meditation and standing right here looking at you unless they're different or one is right, one is wrong, one is good, one ist bad. This is spiritual but that's not. How can he use language like that and say he's spiritual? My God, he's smoking cigarettes. He's overweight. How can I be spiritual? Because I make decisions based on self which placed me in a position to be hurt, just like you. And once in a while I make decisions based on self which placed Me in a Position to be Helped. And once and a while I make decision based on Self and God that placed Me into a position to just sit quietly. You know the old expression? Don't just sit there, do something. What about this? Don't Just Do Something, Sit There. right it's a great book right yeah it's good to be with people I have history with I haven't had that for five years it's good to pee with people that I want to know me even better because I'm a fuck up Don Koya said a truly spiritual person is a person who fucks up three three, four, five times a day, but goes back to God. Goes back to God. And goes back to God and then goes back to self and then goes deeper into self and then sees the grace of God in their mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes. Took five years for some healing to go on between an older woman and I in Denver who just celebrated 47 years of sobriety because of a lie I told her five years ago. And I got to be at her retirement party two weeks ago with with about 400 people. And I asked her, did I need to prostrate or touch her feet or beg her forgiveness? And she said, no, you know what? AA works and we've made our amends and God is either everything or nothing. And I got to sit with that woman that the 12 steps changed into someone I didn't really care to be with about six months ago in January and we got to laugh and be friends. And I get to sit down and I got a chance to say to a woman woman I was engaged to when I was a year sober why don't you come down to treatment and she said treatment wouldn't be a good idea now and who am I to say that it isn't who am i to say the people that don't do the work should do the word who am is what anybody in this room needs to do I don't know what anybody needs to because I can't get you through the work I can take people through the work and I'm not looking for alcoholics I can help anymore I'm looking for Alcoholics and addicts that no human power can help and point them to something that's already there. Thanks for letting me come.