The Grit of Step 12 Edwards House Big Book Workshop Retreat – With Nate F. and Chad A. – Part 7 of 7

yeah I think thank you Thank You Carrie Ann committee and everyone here not just for what's in here but for the amazing weekend it's been a great weekend hopefully we got Chad a Patriots jersey in that bag okay yeah okay just making sure anyway yeah you can't do this on a Sunday morning in New England and not get some sort of harassing yeah I can't wait I can wait to get to the airport oh should we open up can we open theirs oh that's Oh, that's great. Oh, it's cute. I like that. It's very nice. That's super thoughtful. It's a little small for my wrist, but... Life is good. Excellent. Oh yeah. I love that. See, this works for me. See, this works for me just fine. And you did! Oh, that's awesome. Oh, it's great. That's the best. Once we're out, I'll put it on. Once we are out of the playoffs, I will put it oh no yeah yeah thank you yes thank you all very much one of the things that um i wanted to just say to just acknowledge uh something that um i've witnessed this weekend which to me has been really really cool to see is um It seems like there's kind of a core group of women here that have latched onto each other in recovery. And I just think that that is just the coolest thing ever because women in Alcoholics Anonymous just have a different path than the men in AA. And I've been asked to sponsor women throughout the years. and my kind of thing is that I don't know what it's like to be a woman alcoholic so I don' t sponsor women. What happened to me one time is I had a couple of women ask me in a row and I'd started this little workshop and I kind of announced it around had out some flyers and basically what we did was we read the big book together in a group and there were 20 people that showed up to that workshop and 13 of them were women and i realized like my the way that i can help women in alcoholics anonymous is uh is is that way and that they can then start sponsoring each other and start having an experience because there's a bond and a unity that happens if you watch women in Alcoholics Anonymous it's phenomenal it's so amazing and so hold on to each other and um and you know love each other and stay together because it's so important I watch a lot of women leave Alcoholics Anonymous and a lot of times it's because they can't find someone to connect with and my little workshop turned into a meeting and we uh we have a meeting it's my home group now and um about three months ago a group of people in the home group said you know we need to just fold this up nobody's coming here anymore and uh we just need to fold it up and there were three of us that weren't at the home group meeting and they decided since all the homegroup members weren't available we would have this discussion later so the three of US got together and we said if you guys want to leave the meeting, leave the meeting. The three of us will sit here every Thursday night for however long we need to because we actually like being here. And so they left and we said, you know, we got enough money in the bank to float this thing through the summer and we'll see what happens after the summer. They made me the treasurer which is the worst idea they could have done but that's okay, right? I told them, I said, we're not getting a bank account, I'm doing everything in cash until we figure out what we're doing because I don't got time to go get a bank account do all that stuff and they were fine with that so I was there a couple weeks ago and I was sitting in the room and this woman walked in and she had a towel over her face and she was it looked like she either been in a fire or she had been rolling in the mud she was covered in dirt and soot her feet were black and and she was sobbing, like that ugly cry. She came in about ten minutes late. She sat down in the front, and she's with an older gentleman that later we realized was her dad. And she was sobbing the whole meeting. And at the end of the meeting, I watched the women in my home group grab a hold of her. And she had gotten drunk and wrecked her car and called her dad, Her dad was in AA, and he said, you're going to a meeting. And drug her in there, and she cracked open her nose, and her nose was bleeding, and that's why she had the towel over her face. And I left that meeting that night, and I said to myself, that's what I'm going to do. That's why we're there. We're not there for each other. We're there that they just looked up in the book, found us, and walked in the door 10 minutes late. And I don't know that she's going to get recovery or get anything, but she had a place to go and sit and cry for an hour and not have anybody judge her. And I actually got a few phone numbers and some hugs, and it was beautiful. It was beautiful to watch that happen in Alcoxon, especially for women. So that's all I have to say about that. No, that's great. And it is, for whatever reason, that's the truth everywhere that I've ever been. For whatever reason. It's a little harder to find solid sponsorship routes for the women than it is for the men. I don't quite understand why that is. It's not a judgment, it's more of just an observation that it's something to be aware of and certainly just, but good point nonetheless for sure. So yes, step 12 and I'm going to read it so that we can all be aware of what we're talking about. Step 12, having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs. It's very easy to think of the 12th step and disregard everything but helping people. I help people. That's my 12th tip. I help, I help. Well, there's a whole other section there, right? practice these principles in all our affairs so there are two very distinct pieces of what we're talking about here helping people is safe and easy for me practicing principles in all of my affairs not so much right which is why i think we all love the first half of the 12th step it's great i can go out and i can mainline helping people right in a lot of ways I mean, I did that for a time where I was trying to just sponsor 100 people and just over-exerting and chasing people. Why aren't you getting well? And just nuts, you know. My own house was not even close to in order, and I really kind of paid the price for that. We can absolutely deplete our own well if, as Chad said yesterday, if that body of water doesn't have an inflow and an outflow. Very important. we're not in the results business, right? Which I think is really important to remember. And you kind of reminded me that, Chad, when you were talking. I don't know what's going to happen with this young woman that stopped into your home group, right. She may get it, she may not. Thank God we're nicht in the result's business, right. And the way that, again, loving analogies and metaphors, what I love to picture is that I'm responsible for mixing all the ingredients of the cake in the bowl, right and putting it into a pan and putting it in the oven and then I need to basically walk away and never come back. It's God's job to bake that cake, right? I don't know how it's going to come out on the other end but in a lot of ways I need to have the trust that I can walk up to a certain line and do my part but God is in the results business 100%. You cannot mess it up for someone that wants to get well or that god's called right you can and on the flip side you can do everything in your power and have someone still not get well right um and i think the you know just the topic of sponsorship in general is an important one to kind of talk about navigating how i've had a lot of different conversations around the edges with folks around what that looks like throughout the course of the weekend i think we probably alluded to it in our in our uh talks during the sessions as well but uh active sponsorship right what does that actually look like for me today um it looks a lot different than it used to right full disclosure i used to love just knowing that i had x number of people that's that i sponsored and i would love to add people to my roster even if i had no intention of actually like you know being in touch with them because i love to just have the numbers right i mean that's crazy and it's not exactly a point of pride but there was a point in time where i cared more about the perception of me as a sponsor than actually being willing to help people change their lives right so what i do today i don't sponsor a thousand people that i don t talk to i sponsor a decent number of people that i'm involved with their lives on a daily weekly regular basis that's what that looks like if i agree to sponsor someone today it's a commitment on both sides of the coin that we are going to walk this road and we are gonna abide by the same expectations of each other right and this is what it will look like i think i alluded to the fact that um you know i lay down some some just obvious pieces of how the relationship will function best on the front end meaning, you know, I think the example I gave was like if we schedule a time, it's expected that we're going to meet at that time, right? I'm not completely off the grid to the point where, you know. If you get hung up at work or that kind of a thing but my sifter for whether or not it's a genuine reason is pretty spot on at this stage of the game. But again, it is not. I am not looking to manage this stuff but if I am going to be intentional in giving of my time on a weekly regular daily basis at times I'm not going to work harder on your recovery than you are ever right and that is almost taboo in a sense and when I was first kind of being challenged on some of the mice my ideas surrounding sponsorship it was difficult because I felt like in a lot of ways I was being I was falling short of what a good a a member should look like right was being unloving unkind and in a way what has happened is by actually actively sponsoring people sometimes sometimes in a way that actually results in us parting ways I thought I don't think I could love anyone any more than to be able to do that for them when that's absolutely what needs to happen right I've had people circle back and say wow like thank you for cutting me loose five years ago had you not done that I would have probably just continued to clunk along and pretend like I was working the program you know and that's not always the case but I do know without a shadow of a doubt that what my sponsor said to me and what I use often because it's the best way to say it if you're looking for someone to sit in front of you while you sponsor yourself I'm the wrong guy for that right and it's not because of any reason other than the fact that mine chad's everybody's time in this room is important because there are a lot of lives out there that need help right so i'd rather be spending my time with someone that is dying and fighting for their life to get you know to be making progress and to grow closer to god and to be putting the truth on the table than someone that just feels like they're appeasing me by calling because i don't care you know it's your life it's It's your program, right? I mean, I love everyone to a certain degree at a baseline. You know, it's not like I don't love these people. But if you're not willing, I can't create that for you. It doesn't matter how much I try. I can'T create willingness for other people, right. So having to start to navigate some of those things and, you know, a recent experience for me, I had sponsored a guy from away for a long time. And he was probably, I loved talking with this man. And we had just years of really solid, excellent step work. He was walking the path. Some things changed in his life and he just opted to slowly go to sleep. And it wasn't like I wasn't bringing it to his attention on a regular basis. He just was not willing. The willingness just evaporated from the relationship, right? And it became so painful to watch having come from a place where there was such fruitful work being done and such a dependence upon God to having it almost just evaporate. And I mean, we walked the hard road and we had a lot of hard conversations and at the end of the day it came down to me having to part ways with him it sucked personally it hurt it made me sad to have to do that but honestly having seen what's transpired since the intuition was 100 spot on you know he's making some really really poor choices with his life and he's gonna have to figure that out with god right and he knows where i'm at Right? And I think that's the important thing. And I also am a firm believer that if I let someone go, it's not a death sentence. If they want to get well, they will do whatever they need to do to get well, right? I am not the only sponsor on planet Earth and I don't have the magic touch to be able to give you the healing thing. You know what I mean? In a lot of ways, I think I spent time in my recovery thinking that that was the case. Like if I left this person go, I'm going to, what if they die? Well, what is, what does that mean? What if they do? I've watched that happen. Is it my fault? Is it anyone's fault? No, of course not. So I didn't start out with the fluffy part of step 12 per se, but extremely important nonetheless, I think, though, because I think that for most people that I've met, their sponsorship can be a very challenging dynamic relationship at times. Both ways. Am I being fed? Am I feeding others? Is it God-inspired? Am I actively engaged in the sponsorship relationship and am I upholding my end of the deal that I set forward in the very beginning of the relationship? I'd rather tell you the truth and hurt your feelings than go to your funeral. I would rather hurt your feelings then just watch you die, and I would never do that. There was a point in time where i would just be like so afraid to push back into ruffle feathers that i would just like stand by while people just killed themselves essentially you know i'm unwilling to do that today if someone makes the ultimate decision that they want to walk down that road that's their choice to make but i agree to tell the truth no matter what right no matter what and it's not my opinion it's objective truth what is going on here right because inevitably anything that when anyone's anytime someone's getting far off the rails what's going on from a fear perspective dishonesty selfishness resentment right we use our 10th step to examine those things um but being of uh of maximum service to god and to our fellows is not always easy right and there are times where it feels really challenging and you know to chad's point there There are people, I know people, I know that sponsor 50, 75 guys and immediately I know you do not actively sponsor 50 or 75 men. You can't, right? So what is that? And is it, are we truly really doing the very best service for God and for our fellows as we can, right. Because if I just put it in your court, like Chad said, I'm not a call if I need to kind of guy, right I'm not like I need recurring discipline in my program and in my sponsorship relationship and then with the people that I work because what my sponsor does for me is exactly what the men that I worked with get I don't modify it right I don' try to put my own twists and turns I we work directly out of The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous and I hold the people that I've worked with to the exact same standards that I'm held to and if I'm not up if I'm not upholding those standards in my relationship with my sponsor who am I to be passing that down to the people that I sponsor right I would never ever demand anything of someone that I work with that I wouldn't expect from myself and that's the ultimate kind of gauge is that if I were to act this way with my sponsor you would have canned me years ago kind of you know in certain situations I'm like whoa if if I we're just not calling multiple times in a row I mean how disrespectful right and I'm not like completely concerned with oh geez you're my time and this is a pride thing but what I'm saying is that if I get up early or if I'm taking time away from my family to step outside to take a call right and it's a scheduled call if I am getting up at 6 a.m. to be ready for that call you don't call you don't let me know you're not gonna call that's pretty inconsiderate right and there was a time where I'd say oh it's no big deal it's just my time my time matters you know everyone's time matters and to say that it doesn't I think is a lie right because what we're saying ultimately is that our time we don't matter right I don't matter I'm worth blowing blowing me off is the right way to treat me right but in all actuality that's just that's not the case for me today. You know, we need to have a level of accountability and honesty. And I don't manage that, you know, but it is the expectation. And honestly, if we want to stay in a working relationship, it needs to go that way. I've worked with many people for many years and it works just fine, right? But then I've tried to walk that path with other individuals that they, you know, hey, you don't want to do it this way. It doesn't hurt my feelings. I'd rather you go in a direction that you want to go than to continue to pretend like you need to impress me because you know uh how often do we feel that way though with our sponsors right i want to impress them my sponsor said that to me before like nate you don't have to impress me just be honest just be honest and uh but it's scary it's scaring if you've ever watched someone go from being wide awake and alive and connected to god and watch them fall back asleep eyes wide open stone cold sober it's a scary thing to watch right so this is truly a life and death matter I'd love to say that what we're talking about this weekend is a supplement or an add-on to what would help for me what we are talking about is vital to sustain life on earth as an alcoholic as far as I'm concerned and thank God I have a sponsor who is willing to push back on me when I need it and it's never ever in a sarcastic or degrading or demeaning way And there have been times where I've had to tell people that I'm working with, I love you too much not to tell you that you're scaring me right now because it feels to me like you're drifting, right? It feels to be like you are falling back asleep and I am concerned. And I feel like my sponsors probably said the same thing to me at times, right. I just get busy with life and I'm cruising along and not watching for the 10th step that we talked about at length And I just want to kind of go on and live my life because I think the ultimate why that I want to pursue is that I don't want to have to live as an alcoholic. I don'T WANT TO HAVE ALCOHOLISM ON MOST DAYS, RIGHT? I DON'T WANTS TO HAVE TO DO WHAT I HAVE TO Do SELFISHLY TO BE A NORMAL PERSON, RIGHT. And, of course, I'm comparing myself to the external circumstances of people I see out there in the world living their lives, living a pretty normal life, not having to go through the grind of this work to even show up for the day. Like, what the heck? I want to be that way, right? But the lie that I do not have a life-threatening illness that will kill me is the most dangerous lie that I can pursue and that I can believe at times, right, that's not a big deal I'd never drink I mean I might get a little lazy with my 10 step but I'd Never Drink I would contest that all day long I'm not I am not removed from taking a drink if it gets if I get that further if I Get That Far Off The Rails because as I've said crazy people don't know they're crazy right and I've been off the rails in my program before and thought that I was perfectly fine right not knowing how close I was getting to the actual ledge which is scary right it's scary um i hope chad has a more upbeat version of the 12 step for you but i feel like he probably doesn't honestly so um but you know to take that to just take that a step further and i mean obviously being at a baseline right we do make ourselves available to help other people right this is more kind of just talking about my experience with what This has kind of evolved to real time today in my life. But we always make ourselves available, right? We're going to meetings. We're raising our hands. If someone raises their hand that they're brand new, go and talk to them, right, like go and talk to him. Don't expect the new person to seek out help in the room, right. Like if someone's brand new don't tell them how crazy you are. I guarantee they'll feel welcome, right like that's my go-to. like anyone that's their first time with us i'll go and tell them how i think about things and they're like whoa yeah yeah that's exactly how i think too that's pretty crazy uh because again alcoholism doesn't live in the bottle so really really identifying with the way that we think the way that we act that spiritual malady that lives within us i feel like that is a really really excellent way to make connection with folks and that's that's true when you're brand new that's true x number of years down the road right um but to make ourselves available. And it's, you know, whatever. Whatever version of 12-step work and of helping others takes place in your life, as long as what I find is as long As I'm willing and asking God to show me how to be of service, without fail that happens, right? And I'm not just running around at every meeting trying to build out my roster these days, right, like I once did, trying to, you Know, just basically get a stack of sponsees that I could say I was sponsoring, but wasn't, right? If I make a commitment with someone to work with them today, I take it very seriously. And it's going to be an investment. And it're going to on both sides of the coin. We're going engage in this relationship. And it' going to take some time. And we're going dedicate it though. We're gonna do it. And because again, I used to, I had a sponsor that would call, whenever I would call like the criteria of my wellness would be, how many men are you sponsoring and how many meetings have you been to this week? That for me has absolutely nothing to do with my wellness. In a lot of ways those things are helpful, but if that's my gauge for how well I'm doing I can almost promise that I'm not doing so hot. Because I went right off the rails in Alcoholics Anonymous knowing the book like the back of my hand, sponsoring a million people going to six meetings a week but not actually dealing with what was going on internally and it almost killed me it almost killed me and thank God literally thank God for creating that shift within me to say holy I'm dying I'm Dying in Alcoholics Anonymous eyes wide open stone-cold sober working the program as far as I'm concerned scary it's scary in a lot of ways but uh to to take that over to the other half right the practicing of the principles and all of our affairs i feel like again that's the challenging part at times because how do i actually bring what i've experienced that's that's produced this spiritual experience into all areas of my life right and we talked we had a few different questions come up throughout the course of our our our second and third step conversations about what does it look like to be all in with god right well what does it look like to be all in with God in regard to what we're talking about right now practicing these principles in all our affairs right am I only living by principle when I'm in the rooms of AA or am I living by principle at work in my home in my friendships in my family right uh it's much harder to do that than it is in AA. AA is easy right in a lot of ways I mean it's like the easiest way to live by principle because we're just flooded with opportunities. I mean, and if you look back to the early days of Alcoholics Anonymous when they, I mean they had to scour to find people to help, right? All we have to do is pop into any one of a thousand meetings a week and you're automatically plugged into a stream of folks that probably need help, right? It's pretty great. And there are other ways to take that, like Chad said, carrying messages into treatment centers or prisons or whatever that looks like, whatever that inspiration that comes from God on how to be of best service to those around you, I would say pursue it. I don't think there's any cookie-cutter version of what this looks like for every person. I think it's a little different for everyone. But the willingness to be of service, right? Because I've had people that I've worked with that just by circumstance they haven't had any people to work with. they haven't sponsored any anyone for a period of time is that an automatic criteria that you're not working the program no are you actively not trying to sponsor people because if that's the case then yes we have a problem right but if it's just circumstantial and that's just the way it's gone and you are your app meetings you're raising your hand you're talking with people you're going out there and you're pounding the pavement kind of a thing it's just not happening for you it doesn't take away the willingness to right willingness to sponsor willingness to help right whatever that looks like and and I think the other important point that was pointed out to me is that I've had instances where I'm where I've people that I've worked with that have almost treated me like like I'm on the payroll at times which that's not okay for me either because we're all just volunteers in each other's lives, right? Like I've got a life. I've Got Things Going On. I've had things happen in my life where I've Had to, you know, cancel meetings because I've GOT LIFE AND FAMILY THINGS TO DEAL WITH. I WILL NEVER APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. IT HAPPENS, RIGHT? FAMILY NEEDS TO COME FIRST. IT'S NEVER AN EXCUSE TO JUST WIPE MY CALENDAR CLEAN FOR A YEAR OF MEETINGS, BUT THINGS WILL COME UP THAT I WILL need to not be able to meet, You know, our sponsor was just recently in Europe for like what felt like a year, but it was like three weeks on this vacation of a lifetime that he and his wife were able to go and do. And he wasn't around. You know? We didn't have our weekly meetings when he was in Europe. That's okay. That would be nuts. If you were in Europe with your wife having the vacation of the lifetime, it's important that you be there, right? So I think that also to have that flexibility to say, okay, let me not just be rigid and rely on the execution of the process and this is how it works. And if we miss a meeting, that means this. Every situation is different, right? Every situation ist different. Family comes first. I'm a big believer in that though, you know, like family, family, family, like we get sober to be able to show up for our families, right. So in a lot of ways, to be able to – because as I said, I keep the weekends free of commitments for the most part, unless I get invited to go and do something like this on occasion. And now that we have a baby, these are much slimmer probably in a lot ofways. But my wife is also in the program. She also gets asked to do things like this from time to time. So we have – we figure that out. We figure that Out the best that we can. but at a baseline our ideal together is that the weekends are for family time and if something comes up that's outside of that we talk about it is it going to work is it okay right i don't just make decisions to uh to erase what i've what i what i want to have for time with my family without consulting my wife most importantly you know and she does the same for me because it's important, right? Like being an all-star in AA isn't going to help my marriage, right. I mean the both work well together but I can't you know if I were out doing this kind of thing every weekend and she was at home with our young baby she wouldn't be like oh wow I'm glad I'm married to an AA superstar, right, who cares, right because at the end of the day my primary role to her is to be a good husband and a good father right this the principles that we're talking about in the book in the in the program of alcoholics anonymous are the only shot that i have at practicing my principle in all of those affairs right without that i can't be a good husband i can' t be a godfather i can''t be a g ood employee i can ''t be a good manager. I can't be a good son, whatever. I could go down the line, right? A good friend. I just can't beat any of those things removed from the principles that are outlined in this book. And it's not like there's a, and I'm sure there does exist a list of exact principles that I'm talking about. It's more about integrity, right. The word that I like to use and that I like to gauge it on is, am I integrity in this particular area of my life fully? Not by the gauge of someone else, but in my own heart and soul. Am I in integrity with the way that I'm living in this particularly area of life? Or am I off the grid? Am I sideways, right? Am I doing something I know is wrong and trying to just power through it because I want to selfishly hang on to it right so home stretch home stretch I've got a few words left maybe but I'm running out of gas buddy yeah but again to not dissect exactly there there's an abundance of information in this book chapter working with others there's a full chapter about what this looks like on the front lines right but for the sake of our conversation today I think it's more valuable to have the conversation in the way that we are right it's not about how to perfectly execute helping people on the on the front lines there's more to it and honestly that's the easiest part to be a hundred percent honest you know executing help on the frontline and finding people to help especially nowadays I mean we're flooded with opportunities and to be honest if I'm asking God in the mornings and every day how I can be of service and how I can exercise my 12 step in life, I'm always shown how to do it. The majority of the people that I sponsored today I did not meet in a meeting. It's either like your name has been in my head for three weeks and I need to call you or so-and-so gave me your number and thinks that this is what I'm going through. I'm dying in AA. I've been sober 15 years and I just, something needs to change. It's those kinds of things, you know? So again, the proof that God exists, I don't need to manage that. God has never given me more opportunities to be helpful than what I can handle. On paper, I get nervous sometimes that I'm not, I can't take on anybody else, you know? I just can't do it. But without fail, anytime that anyone asks for help, I always go to God and say, all right, God, do I, is this something you want me to pursue? Right. And I get the answers, right? I get the answers. And if I can't, for whatever reason, I almost always will connect them with someone else. I know that they can rely on it and they can help them adequately because again, I don't believe that I have the special sauce. Like the work out of the book is the workout of the books in a lot of ways. Right. So but it's just important to be available to be help. So I'm really passing it this time. I don't have a whole lot to add other than the hardest part for me about sponsorship is telling you the truth because I want you to like me even if I sponsor you and I've had to tell my guys some truth when Mickey started sponsoring me I went around to the guys that I sponsored most of them I hadn't talked to in months weeks years and talk to my own sponsor why was I gonna talk I had a couple guys I was still meeting with weekly, but I usually got to the end of the big book, shook their hand, said good luck, call me if you need me, and don't forget the flimsy read. And so they were out there floundering around in Alcoholics Anonymous just like I was. So when I got a hold of Mickey, I grabbed a hold on each one of them and I said here's the deal. This is about to change. If you want me to be your sponsor, you'll meet with me weekly. And if you don't, I hope you find someone new." And I had most of the guys that I sponsored went off and I have no idea where they are. They're off floundering in AA. One guy called me from a psych ward. He's just unwilling to drive to my house. I said, well, you don' t have to drive to my home, call me on the phone. That was too hard. I really need someone to sit down personally. Okay, then drive to my house. I'm not willing to drive to your house. Okay, then we're done. We've got nothing to talk about. I had a guy I sponsored for 17 years I had to let go a couple of years ago because he didn't care about my time and he wasn't doing what I was asking him to do. He was 17 years sober and couldn't write an inventory. Couldn't show up on time because he had other stuff going on and whatever so I'd let him go I didn't let him build the first time we had a nice talk about it and then it went good for a little while and then I talked to him again and finally it's like you know what I'm done I'm putting way more into your recovery than you are I recently started about a year and a half ago I started sponsoring a guy that was sponsored by a guy they were sponsored by guy that it was sponsored my guy that I used to sponsor and he told me he said I would hear you talk in a meeting about something that your sponsor had you doing and in the back of my mind I would say oh shit I'm gonna be doing this in a couple weeks as soon as it trickles down the waterfall and he's a joy to sponsor man really is and Alcoholics Anonymous a lot I've heard and I participated in like this buddy sponsorship thing and that almost killed me I can't have a buddy for a sponsor my sponsors my friend I mean I guess I would call him a friend but but he cares enough to tell me the truth and so I I need to do that for the men I sponsor. I've got to tell them the truth. And I'll tell you, sometimes an Alcoholics Anonymous walking this path and being truthful is, it feels like, you know, you've got a plague and everybody's running from you. And that happens, you Know, and that's okay because I've Got to Walk with God. And when I think about the origin of this program, and I think about Bill Wilson traveled up there to Akron, Ohio and he had this great plan you know he was six months sober he had his great plan that he was going to merge this broker with this tire company and they basically laughed him out of their office and he thought he was gonna drink again the truth is is that if Bill would have called his sponsor, Ebby Thatcher, at that moment, Ebby was drunk. Ebby would have been no use to Bill Wilson. But Bill called Henrietta Cyberland, got connected with Dr. Bob, and Alcoholics Anonymous was born. Carried his message to someone that needed it and wanted it. And then the most interesting part of that story to me is that Bill stayed in Akron for six months. If I called my wife today and said, Honey, there's some drunks out there. I got to stay and help. I might be home in the spring. She would tell me to stay. Don't worry about coming home inthe spring. But the question is, is in that moment, who helped who? Was Bill helping Bob or did Bob save Bill's life? I'll tell you, man, I've been in like intense back pain and a sponsee will come over and I really don't want to work with them. And I'll sit there with them and I'll read the book and we'll go through the thing and I'm like, I don't know what to do. And then I'll get up from that meeting and my back pain is gone. gone I am so busy at work like I can't even think straight I'm so busy at work right now and I don't want to meet with my guys right now I'm busy you know I get to the office some mornings I get to my my real office at 430 in the morning most of the time I work from home and I'm working at 3 a.m. 3 30 a. m. and and I got sponsees I meet with at six and i got a guy i meet it with at four and in the afternoon and um i don't i don t want to meet with them but i will tell you every time i do i get off that phone and it is like there is no amount of work i could have accomplished in that time frame that worth the accomplishment and the feeling i get when i get out the phone now i give my guys a 10 step with me and i'm like man i'm going through the same thing i got the same 10 step going on right now or i just called did that one yesterday or whatever the case may be I think it's important that if people are in our sponsorship lineage and they are not doing the deal that we tell them that I heard a guy in a meeting once say that he wants the men he sponsors to have a third option when they get jammed up against a wall you know our options are usually kill herself for drink boils down to those two things and he wants them to have the third option and that's to work the steps but if I've been in Alcoholics Anonymous cruising around thinking I'm doing the deal and I get jammed up and it's drink or kill myself because I'm not gonna have the 3rd option of work the stats because I think I've worked them but if you've told me you haven't done your step work and we're done here then I go oh wait a minute I might have a third option I can go get a sponsor and go back to Alcoholics Anonymous. And I may not kill myself or drink. May not. So, I believe in that. I used to not. I used the belief in like, you don't pay me, you don' t get to fire, I don' d get to fire you. Fire you is such a weird thing to say, but I think like, change of the relationship. We're not going to be in this sponsor-sponsor relationship if you're not doing the deal. You're not willing to follow directions. And vice versa for me, like the hardest thing for me to do is be sponsored sometimes. And the question that I ask and the question that my sponsor asks me is a gauge for how that's going is are you being sponsored? Not do you have a sponsor because that's an easy question, but are you being sponsored. Are you being given direction and are you taking it? Are you following it? I don't have a whole lot more to add, but I was thinking about maybe talking a little bit about Darlene. Sure. Would you be all right with that? I like that. Yep. We'll leave some time for questions. Yeah. Yeah, plenty of time. So, I talked about my friend Darlane And I will tell you that if she were alive today, I would have talked to her probably Friday morning, maybe Thursday. I would've told her I was coming here and she would've said, That's great. And I would're said, You know, but I'm nervous. She would've say, No, you're not. You're excited. You're exited to go out there and share what God's done in your life. In 1989, I met Darlene for the first time in a meeting. I was about a month away from having back surgery. I was in a lot of pain. I would go to my home group and I would just lay on the floor. Funny thing is there's a guy that I started sponsoring at that time and he saved my life like absolutely saved my life because he was the one guy that was coming over to my house and I was reading a big book too once a week laying on the floor with my feet up on a chair flat on my back reading a big book so I met Darlene in this meeting and she came up to me never met her before she came up to be started talking to me and she says you know i just want you to know that every morning i hold you in my thoughts and my prayers and i surround you in golden light and i just pray that you're healed and i was like you are nuts i don't even know you she started calling me and she would just tell me like you know i'm holding you in light and you're going to be healed and I'm like you like who is this crazy woman calling me And through the course of that experience, I got to know her. I got spend time with her and I watched her in Alcoholics Anonymous. She was sponsoring women. She lived on disability income. She had a teenage son. She lived in this little two-bedroom apartment not too far from my home group and her home group was we were on opposite nights, Friday and Saturday nights. and we were kind of related meetings. We all kind of were sponsored by each other and whatnot. And Darlene got into this thing where she loved, loved heroin addicts. Like loved them like nobody could love them. And so she got into the thing where she started kicking heroin addict on her couch in her little two-bedroom apartment. She'd call me and she'd say, chat I got another guy over here and uh I remember this one time I got this little guy he was covered in tattoos and he was like 90 pounds soaking wet and um his name was Johnny and I love Johnny to this day I haven't seen him in 20 years but I love him I just my heart just swells with when I think of him and uh the fire alarm went off Johnny's about 30 hours off of heroin what darling would do is she would take their keys their wallets their phones she'd put on a pot of chicken noodle soup and she'd call the posse she'd called anyone and everyone she could get into her house and just start carrying a message just come and sit with him just come sit with him and hold him on the couch while he kicks heroin just tell him it's going to be okay, and God loves it. And we would do that. And Johnny was in the bathtub and the fire alarm went off in the building, this apartment building, so we had to get out of the building. And he's standing out there shivering and he's smoking. We get back upstairs, they're all clear, and we're sitting there and we'RE all talking. There's about five or six of us in this little apartment and uh the fire alarm goes off johnny just says screw it i'm just gonna burn up i ain't going back outside just let me burn you know and we would just feed that guy chocolate and gatorade and chicken noodle soup and um she didn't have any money you know she was just scraping it together to be able to do this. And so she just kept doing that. And then she'd call and she'd say, hey Chad, I got a new drunk. Come help me. And I'd take off from the meeting and I'd go over there and barricade the door so this girl couldn't get out. And we'd just hold on to her until she sobered up. And she started sponsoring these women all over Alcoholics Anonymous. And it was amazing to watch her work with people. And she loved this particular person, who I won't mention, but I'll mention it off microphone if you want to know, that did these talks. She was not an AA. And if you talked about having a relationship problem in a meeting, she would run over to you and hand you a tape of this woman talking about intimacy, what it really meant. Or she would hand you a book about love. It was crazy. How many of these tapes do you have? She's how I met my wife. She's who I met my wife, my wife came over to my house to borrow a book that she had lent me because I talked about some stuff and she left and I called Darlene and I was like, what's going on with that smoke show? Like what's her story? You know? Yeah, pulled up in her little red convertible and I was like, oh, God is. And she said, you want no part of that. She's got some other stuff, some other irons in the fire right now. So I stayed away. And so Darlene used to, she would do this and continue to do this And she got me going to church. She would take me to church with her, this little church that she would go. We'd go have breakfast in this little crap hole diner. And then we'd go sit and have church. And she would love to just, they would sing at this church. I hated singing at the church. And she Would just laugh at me, just laugh At me. We started calling her Mama Linsky. That kind of rhymed with her last name a little bit. And one day she called me. She said, please don't call me that. and uh it makes me feel old you know and i said okay okay and then i called her one time and i i call i said monica lowinsky and she loved that she laughed just that she would say oh baby and uh and i'd said you know so i started calling her monica and uh for years and people like even after she passed people were like why why did you call her monika and i told that story they're like, oh. And she loved it. She thought it was hilarious. It was way better than calling her mama. And so Darlene and I kind of had this journey together. And it was the first time in Alcoholics Anonymous that I had a peer. That I had somebody, you know, that I could call when I was broken or hurt. And, and it wasn't my sponsor. You know, it was a friend. It was a peer and, and more importantly than that, it was a woman. It was a woman that I had zero other motives about. It was just friendship and recovery. She would call me when she had things. The thing about Darlene is Darlane was HIV positive, and as time went on, her AIDS, she got full-blown AIDS, and it progressed, and it happened in an instant. And I called her one day, and she was not making any sense to me and I was like this is it like she's drank she's on drugs something's up I called her sponsor and he explained to me no this is what's happened to Darlene she's got this thing that happens I don't remember the name of it it's not important but it's basically the brain starts to kind of shut down so she was fully functioning she could she could hear she could listen she could understand but she couldn't talk the ability to speak was being removed. And she would just say, see all the time. See? No, I don't see. I don' t know what you're talking about. And so when I understood that, I was like, my friend's dying. And as time went on, she got less and less capable of doing things. And I went over to her house one day and I walked in and it was full of people there was a board on the wall with all the chores and all the days of the week dishes laundry get her son to school pick him up from school and in all the boxes were the names of all the heroin addicts and women in AA that she had been helping over the years they were all coming back and they were helping her die with dignity. I sat with her that day, that afternoon, everyone kind of cleared out and her and I went and sat in her bed and we listened to her favorite gal talk on these tapes. And she made me stop the tape and she said to me as clear as a bell, I want you to pray for me to go home. And I told her I couldn't do that you know but I would be with her and uh and so because I wasn't ready to let go of her I needed her and so as we progressed on she got to a point where it was really time for her to go to the hospital it was real time for for her to be uh with people who could kind of medically take care of her better and um so they checked her into the hospital and um years before this She had called me one day, and she said, this woman I sponsor, I hear she's days away from dying. I need to go see her. And I said, okay, I'm coming. I'll come grab you, and I'll take you down there. We go down there, and we walk into this woman's hospital room, and she's got her eyes closed, and it's dark in the room, and we're standing there, and I don't know this woman. I did not know her at all. and Darlene's looking at all the stuff on the wall and trying to read the doctor's notes and kind of looking around and I'm standing there just kind of looking at this woman and she opens her eyes and I am terrified because this woman is supposed to be dying and she looks and she says Darlane and Dahlene turns around and says oh my goodness And the truth is that she wasn't dying. She was actually going home the next morning, and she'd gotten some faulty information, but on the way out of there, Darlene started laughing. She's like, Chad, you healed that woman. You walked in that room, and you healed her with your presence. so when they put her in the room I always want to call it a hotel room when they put her in the hospital she was in that same room and when I came in that room for the first time she lit up she lit up because she thought I was going to heal her and I couldn't right I watched that woman to make amends from that hospital bed as best she could. I watched her struggle with the words to be able to say, I'm sorry for what happened between us with people that she needed to clean up. I watched our family come back, her daughter come back into her life. I watched here clean that up on her deathbed. And as a result of that, her and I used to do this 11 step together. So the family got to a point where they were like, look, you guys got to stay away. The nurses would pull people aside and say, who is this woman? Because you all come here day and night. And there's a flood of you that come between 5 and 7. The place clears out at 7.30. And by 9.30, 10 o'clock, there's another group here. What's happening between 8 and 9. 30? Right? And so, like, is she famous? Like, who is this woman? And so people started talking to her. The doctor called and said, you know, I have never seen this example of Alcoholics Anonymous anywhere ever. It's incredible what you guys are doing for this woman. But the family said it's too much. We want time with our mom. We need time with her. We need some time with my mom. So we all just went away. Just stepped back. And her family called me one night and said, Hey, we've heard that you used to do this 11-step thing with Mom. And we were hoping that maybe you could come do that. And if you did, we're hoping that may be she'll pass. She'll let go. So I didn't want to go do that, but I did. I went down there and I opened up the book and read the 11-steps and asked the questions. I gave her my best 11-stepped. I told her her favorite story because she used to always love this story I used to tell I read her page 164 and I kissed her goodbye and the next day my friend Brendan called me to tell me that she had passed in the morning and it was heartbroken for her and her family her sponsor adopted her son got him through high school and sent him off on his way and that was all arranged before she got sick and we went to do the funeral and all these people came from all over the place man it was amazing and at the end of the funeral the uh the gals that she had sponsored were like vacuuming and wiping off the tables. And the pastor came to me and she said, Chad, what are they doing? And I said, They're cleaning up. She said, No, no, no. We've got people that do that. It's part of the fee. And I says, That's what we do. We clean up. Let them clean up Let them clear up. So they let him clean up I can't tell you what that experience was like any more than I already have but watching my friend die was an amazing experience that gave me that just gave me this appreciation for life and friendship and having a peer Nate and I talked about that at the very beginning having a peers in Alcoholics Anonymous, a lot of times is the hardest thing to have. And she was definitely a peer. This last November my wife well I had this thing so I would do this thing my dog that I really love passed away I heard this thing that sometimes people when they pass they show up in animals so I'd look at my dog Grace and I'd be like Darlene is that you blink twice if it's you and she would have laughed at that she would love that I was doing that she was a little woo woo sometimes she kind of got into some spiritual la la land sometimes, she would've loved it lay down if it're you but I tell you that I feel her often, I really do, honestly I do, I spoke at a conference last year, and the psychic came up to me afterwards, and did I tell you about this? And told me that this angel unfolded on top of, behind me when I started to talk about her. And I don't know if that's true or not, but you know what? It makes me feel good that, I feel like she's with me a lot. A lot. And so in November, I had a birthday, a sobriety birthday, and my wife came to me and said, what do you think about having a party I was thinking we could rent this space out that I found that was really cool we could have this party and I said that is a horrible idea she said I knew you'd say that I already booked the room and it's non-refundable right she hit me where I can't be right I'm trapped now because I ain't gonna give away the money I'm not just gonna like give up the money so we had this little party and she flew my sponsor out i got to spend the weekend with him and that was fun and terrifying like having your sponsor come stay in your home for three days when you have kids and like you never know what's gonna happen it's like i really gotta be on my thing and my wife put this little basket out with some note cards and pens and it just said like you know just put a little note in here for chat. And the reason I don't like parties for me is I don' t like to feel love. I don t feel like I deserve it. So I get really locked in and, like, I want to hide. And so she had this little note thing, and it ended up at home, and the next morning I got up and I'm like, ìI should read these notes.î And I'm reading through the notes, and this one note kind of jumped out in here, and I kept it. It's in my book. And I have to say before I start crying, I think I know who wrote it, but I like to think she did. And it just says, you are beautiful. Love, Darlene. And, uh, I want to tell you, you're beautiful. I love you and thank you for giving us the opportunity to be here I really, really appreciate it Thank you Questions? Questions or comments or I would say anything at this point And I just would like to reiterate Chad's sentiments that it's just been wonderful to be here and to be with you this weekend. And, you know, one of the best gauges of how these things go a lot of the time are, you know did the God in me connect with the God in you? And I feel like a lot of that took place this weekend, certainly on my end. And I appreciate everyone's honesty and vulnerability around the edges and the conversations we've been able to have and just the warm reception and know most importantly that it doesn't end here, right? We all go back into our lives, but we go back with everything that we went through this weekend, right. So thank you for the hospitality and it's been a great weekend. Absolutely. Thank you.