The Fifth Step and the Ego – BB Workshop – Part 7 of 14 – Bill L.

Hi everyone, my name is Mike. I am an alcoholic. It's good to be back here this week. This is actually the twelfth week that we've been meeting here in our little big book step work group. So again, I'm glad to be back and for those that didn't get a handout, please take one. As I said earlier, please bring this particular handout back next week. It contains the information for the next two weeks. I still don't think I'm fully recovered from the flu. My ears are kind of clogged up. I'm not contagious, though. So, Bill, you can sit on my lap again. Later at the meeting. That's another meeting. Alright. I was teasing Bill before the meeting and I said, should I do a review of the last 11 weeks but basically for it if this is your first time here and I do see a couple new people tonight so welcome to both of you it's always good to see a new face here for you guys that are here for your your first time this is not a typical or regular AA meeting we're not even in the meeting book. We don't want to be in a meeting book and we're not a permanent AA meeting. I guess Bill and I just came up with the name Step Work Group and it kind of keeps us out of trouble but we are open to anyone who is seeking recovery from the big book Alcoholics Anonymous. If you wish to do the 12 steps with us via the big book, you're welcome to join us there are people here from AA, NA, OA a whole bunch of different kind of A's so if you're an A welcome you said recovery from the big book I thought that meant that you read the big book and then you have to go to a 12 step fellowship for it listen you're not supposed to be here this week so just keep your mouth shut I did notice I say that and I didn't want to correct myself and I'm sure I'll be saying lots of weird stuff like that tonight So I'm sure Bill will correct me. And I guess there'll be lots of tape editing going on too. Basically what we've done over the past 11 weeks is probably one of the most longest in-depth dissertations on the first four steps as outlined in the big book that personally I've ever been involved with. But I think we've had a good time. Speaking for myself, I've definitely learned a lot more about the big book and I've learned a little bit more about myself and I have learned more about this thing that we call God. Last week we finally finished the four-step. um we spent anywhere from five six or seven weeks on the first step um we used information in the doctor's opinion and the first bless you and the three chapters uh chapters one two and three to take us through the first step we use chapter four we agnostics um to go through the second step And we use Chapter 5, How It Works, to go through Steps 3 and 4. Tonight we will begin Chapter 6 into action. And Chapter 6 is a step-packed chapter. It gives all the information for taking the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 11th steps of our program recovery. Okay. Before we get into the chapter, I'll just explain the handouts. It is printed on front and back, so there's a total of 10 pages, 10 sheets that is, but a total of 20 pages. So the first sheet front and black is an article called Hearing Fist Steps. We hear a lot about doing our fifth step and giving our fifth step but there's really not a lot of information in AA about hearing fifth steps so this article certainly does not speak for AA as a whole and I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but it was something new and so I decided to throw it in here and I'm sure I'll be sharing some of my experience with hearing fifth step when we get to that part of the chapter. Pages 3, 4, and 5 are some thoughts that Bill compiled on steps 6 through 9. Pages 6 and 7 comprise a very good article written by Carrie C., who's a friend of ours, and that article is entitled From Head to Heart. Page 8 is a list of, I forget how many defects we listed here, 60-some character defects that you can use if you choose to for your sixth step. And if I think of it, I'll explain more about this handout when we get to that point. but page 9 can be used when you do your 7 step and Bill has been kind enough to bring along some 7 step cards I believe one side of the card has a 7 step prayer and the other side of the card is similar to page 9 in a handout where a friend of ours did we have a lot of time on our hands, but not that much. The left side of the card, as with page 9 in the handouts, is a list of defects, and the right side is a less, a list if you will, that they can ask God to replace the defects with. Page 10 in the handout is various seven-step prayers. 11 and 12 are, and we'll be using this for next week. Pages 11 and 12 are points regarding amends and restitution on the ninth step. 13 and 14, it's the same handout, but this is a list that you can use for your eight-step list. Again, you're not confined to this format, but if you're looking for a list or a format to use, feel free to use this. And pages 15 through 20 is entitled Promises, Promises. These were not compiled by Bill or myself, but by a friend of ours by the name of Dave F. Dave also equally has way too much free time on his hands. and you know so often we hear at meetings about the ninth step promise or about the twelve promises of AA and I think that's a misquote it's actually the ninth step promises of Alcoholics Anonymous and what Dave went and did was like good Alky more is better so he went through the first 164 pages of the big book including the doctor's opinion and the Roman numerals and he exerted all the statements that he believed to be promises that's it for the handouts okay let's start on page 72 chapter 6 into action having made our personal inventory what shall we do about it and again we made our person inventory in step 4 we have been trying to get a new attitude step 2 and a new relationship with our creator step 3 and to discover the obstacles in our path step 4 we have admitted certain defects we have ascertained in a rough way what the trouble is we have put our finger on the weak items in our personal inventory in our personally inventory we took a look at our resentments our fears and our harms to others with emphasis on our sex conduct now these are about to be cast out these weak items in our personnel inventory if you will or our harms or our faults, our shortcomings, our defects. All these things, all these different words that Bill W. is going to use and has used already mean the same thing. It's just these things which block us off from God. He says this requires action on our part, which, when completed, will mean that we have admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our defects. Again, the fifth step, as written on page 59, says the exact nurture of our wrongs, and Bill never likes to use the, or rarely likes to us the same word twice, so he decided to change it to defects here. Again, means the same thing, that which blocks us off from a higher power. This brings us to the fifth step in the program of recovery mentioned in the preceding chapter. This is perhaps difficult, this fifth step is perhaps difficult, especially discussing our defects with another person. And I don't know about you guys, but when I was drinking that was the last thing that I wanted to do. I can't ever remember stepping up to a bar and saying, hey bartender, would you come over here? I'd like to admit to you the exact nature of my wrongs. So obviously this could be difficult and it's not something that we like to do but I tell you what, after having done it a few times and after having had a spiritual awakening as the result, as doing these type of actions that the book talks about. I don't dislike doing this anymore. The part of me that time after time after time doing a fifth step that does not like it is my ego. That's what doesn't like it. See, the ego doesn't like to be smashed. The ego doesn' t like to look bad. You cannot defeat your own ego. But that part of me which is goodness, that part of me which is godliness, that part of me, which is connected to spirit knows the benefits that time after time after time I've gotten out of taking this step. We think we have done well enough in admitting these things to ourselves. There is doubt about that. You know, again, we admitted these things to ourselves in the fifth step. And you know, I'm sure I'm sure there's plenty of people that you know they complete their four step and the proposition of sharing this thing with another human being is just so frightening that perhaps maybe they just stop there and the big book's going to give us some warnings about doing that it says in actual practice we usually find a solitary self-appraisal insufficient. Many of us thought it necessary to go much further. We'll be more reconciled to discussing ourselves with another person when we see good reasons why we should do so. The best reason first, if we skip this vital step, we may not overcome drinking. I think that's a good reason to do a fifth step. Time after time newcomers have tried to keep to themselves certain facts about their lives. Trying to avoid this humbling experience, they have turned to easier methods. Almost invariably, they got drunk. Sounds like a pretty good warning to me, huh? Having persevered with the rest of the program, they wondered why they fell. We think the reason is they never completed their house cleaning. They took inventory all right, but they hung on to some of the worst items and stopped. And notice the italicized words here. They only thought they had lost their egoism and fear. They only though they had humbled themselves but they had not learned enough humility, fearlessness and honesty in the sense we find it necessary until they told someone else all, again italicize, all their life story. I just want to read the last few lines again To personalize it Because I probably I probably said this in previous weeks But I can go through this book And read the words They and we And him And just think that they're talking about you But when I stick my name in there Or when I put my name When I stick I in there It makes it real personal so i only thought i had lost my egoism and fear i had only thought i had humbled myself but i had not learned enough humility fearlessness and honesty in the sense that a.a finds it necessary until i told someone else all my life story now the next excuse me the next couple paragraphs uh bill's gonna hook us back into that actor analogy, that actor description that he talked about in the third step. He says more than most people, the alcoholic leads a double life. He is very much the actor. To the outer world, he presents his stage character. This is the one he likes his fellows to see. He wants to enjoy a certain reputation but knows in his heart he doesn't deserve it. And I am very susceptible to this type of behavior today, and it's because of fear. It's because a self-centered fear. Lo and behold, there's always that one thing on my inventory that ultimately I end up sharing it, but I'd really rather not share it, because I'd rather not you see me as that scared little boy that I can still sometimes be after all I have over 8 years sober don't you know I'm supposed to be Mr. AA Mr. Spiritual Man so the ego doesn't like it when it's looked at the ego isn't like when it's spied on, so to speak. The inconsistency is made worse by the things he does on his sprees. Coming to his senses, he is revolted at certain episodes he vaguely remembers. These memories are a nightmare and he trembles to think someone might have observed him. As fast as he can, he pushes these memories far inside himself. He hopes they will never see the light of day. he is under constant fear and tension and that makes for more drinking so a good question I can ask myself today and for the people who have never been here before what we like to do with this book is take as many statements as we can and turn them into questions to ask ourselves and here's one of them here I can answer myself, am I under constant fear and attention today, currently if so is it possible that being under constant fear and tension can make for drinking you know again this book it talks about past tense but I like to bring it today current it says psychologists are inclined to agree with us we have spent thousands of dollars for examinations we know but few instances where we have given these doctors a fair break We have seldom told them the whole truth, nor have we followed their advice. Unwilling to be honest with these sympathetic men, we were honest with no one else. Small wonder many in the medical profession have a low opinion of alcoholics and their chance for recovery. Very important statement here. I must be entirely honest with somebody if I expect to live long or happily in this world. rightly and naturally I think well before I choose the person or persons with whom to take this intimate and confidential step and I used to think for a long time that the only way to do a fist step was with one person and I believe that that's the right way for someone who has not done it before because it's a big deal to scare your inventory. It's a great deal to share your inventory and to possibly scare your inventories too with just one other person, especially when you're brand new to sobriety and new to Alcoholics Anonymous and trying to live a spiritual path. But it took me a couple years or a few years before I noticed that this book says person or persons. So what I like to do with a fifth step today is I like the right piece of inventory and share a fist at one-on-one, let's say, one time with Bill, one-time with Daria, one times with John. And I like do fifth steps with two, three, sometimes four people just based off of one inventory. Again, I wouldn't recommend that for your first or second time through the steps, but if you're really looking to get at your ego from a different angle, if you'RE really looking TO smash your ego, I would strongly recommend trying that. Bill and I have also had experiences, and this can be frightening to some so I don't push it but we've had experiences where we've done fifth steps with three people and I know people that have done it amongst four people. Again, this is not to suggest you should be doing your fifth step in a meeting or in small groups and it's not even suggesting that we're going to be doing that in this group um but these are some of some of the experiences uh that i've had last uh last fall bill myself and another gentleman we uh i guess it was about 12 hours we spent i believe it was on a saturday and uh we started about 10 o'clock in the morning and we didn't get finished until around 10 or 11 o' clock in the evening and uh it was real interesting how it worked out One of us shared our inventory with the other two men, and then when that person was done it went to the next man and we just went on like that until the three people were done. And the perspectives that you can get by doing that is unbelievable. It's been extremely beneficial for me. Um, I don't like to just be, in the beginning it was a real big deal just to tell one person my entire life story. To tell one percent of my life story, to tell my whole life story to one person, my defects and it's a real humbling experience today to open up to as many as many people as i possibly can um and again that that works for me that doesn't work for everybody but my life's an open book today and i really have nothing to hide so uh i like to take that suggestion in the book where it says choose the person or persons and notice it says this intimate and confidential step and over and over Bill's going to repeat in the next page and a half or so about how this is a confidential thing and I'll get more into that as I read on those of us belonging to a religious denomination which requires confession must and, of course, will want to go to the properly appointed authority whose duty it is to receive it. It's talking about doing a fifth step with a member of the clergy. Excuse me. Back in 1939 when this book was originally published, we really didn't have a big fellowship. so the early pioneers of AA were looking to share their inventories with anyone that they possibly could, anyone that they could find a confidence in and think that they were trustworthy they did it because like I said there weren't a lot of sponsors in Alcoholics Anonymous there weren'T a lot of people in our fellowship So one of the ways they suggest that you do your fifth step is with a member of the clergy. Though we, meaning AA, have no religious connection, we may still do well to talk with someone ordained by established religion. We often find such a person quick to see and understand our problem. Of course, we sometimes encounter people who do not understand alcoholics. I've been doing fifth steps for about seven almost eight years until I sought out a member of the clergy in this particular instance it was a catholic priest and I'd been talking to a couple friends of mine in the fellowship and I said you know I've heard other people do fifth steps with a priest or a member of the clergy, and that's just an experience I've never had. Not because I didn't want to, but personally I'm not really connected to any specific religion, so I didn'T have that opportunity to do that. But a friend of mine was able to hook me up with a Catholic priest who is also in our fellowship. He's been sober in AA for over 20 years. And I sought out this man and shared a fifth step with him last fall. And it was a real rewarding experience. If someone were to ask me what was the biggest thing you got out of doing a fifth step with a priest, I would say I found out that I was not much different from that man you know i for years i looked at members of the clergy or religious people and just thought myself so much less than like they were somewhere up here and i was somewhere below that and uh what this what this gentleman was able to share with me is that he goes through some of the same things at not only being a priest but having over 20 years sobriety that i go through today you know he still suffers from fears he still catches the occasional uh resentment um i don't think he has uh many problems in in the line of of sex because he is a priest but you know that's his particular case and we won't get into that at this meeting but that man helped me a lot he helped me a lot in regards to fears and he helped me a lots for me to just be reminded that we are all equals nobody in Alcoholics Anonymous and do I dare say nobody on the face of this planet is any better than or worse than. We are all children in the universe. So it says, if we cannot or would not rather do this meaning doing a fifth step with a member of the clergy we search our acquaintance for a closed mouth understanding friend some more guiding principles when looking for a person to do a fifth step when I do a fifth step with a person I make sure that they're a close mouth and understanding friend and when I listen to a fifth step, I make sure that I am close mouth and I project to this person that I'm an understanding friend. Again, no holier than thou in AA just another drunk sharing experience, strength and hope to another perhaps our doctor or psychologist will be the person it may be one of our own family but we cannot disclose anything to our wives or our parents which will hurt them and make them unhappy we have no right to save our skin at another person's expense such parts of our story we tell to someone who will understand yet be unaffected the rule is we must be hard on ourself but always considerate of others again he's talking about sharing a fifth step with a doctor or psychologist or a family member and like i said before they were looking to uh to share their inventory with anyone that they could We're really fortunate today in AA where we have so many sponsors in Alcoholics Anonymous, so many people who can listen to our fifth steps. And me personally today, I don't, except for that one occasion where I wanted to do a fifth step with a priest for myself, I really don't need to go outside the fellowship of AlcoholicsAnonymous. and I think we're really fortunate it says the rule is we must be hard on ourselves but always consider of others and if if I'm sharing a piece of inventory let's say for example with Bill and if I think he may be affected by what I'm going to share with him I don't need to share this with him I can grab John and share that piece of my inventory with him. Again, the book tells us that for us to not save our skin at another person's expense, just because we need to do this doesn't mean that we need to go harm somebody else in the process. Notwithstanding the great necessity for discussing ourselves with someone, it may be one is so situated that there is no suitable person available and that's very rare anymore I think the only case that the only time that that would apply is someone who maybe is out to sea like a merchant marine or maybe someone who lives in the forest or what have you but then it's going to say if that is so this step may be postponed only however, if we hold ourselves in complete readiness to go through it go through with it at the first opportunity we say this because we are very anxious that we talk to the right person it is important that he or she the person that's listening to the fifth that be able to keep a confidence that this person fully understand and improve at what we're driving at, that he will not try to change our plan, but we must not use this as a mere excuse to postpone. This is something that I do when I'm listening to someone's fist-up. Before they share their inventory with me, I let them know that I am able to keep a confidence. I will not go out and share your inventory with anybody, including my wife. There is no need to. And something I do to ensure that is that I say a prayer before we get started. And amongst other things, I ask God to just help me forget everything that I've heard once this fifth step is done. And it's quite comical sometimes because maybe six months down the road, a person who I've hurt a fifth step from will call me up and be all happy about some situation that was in his or her inventory that was resolved. And they'll say, well, do you remember when I shared such and such with you? And inevitably, nine times out of ten, I'll have to say, no, I don't. You'll need to refresh my memory. And sometimes I get a little aggravated about that. There's just no way from all the inventories that I've heard, there's just not a way that I could carry on to that stuff and live sanely in this world. If, you know, Bill often says that if you cannot keep a confidence, if you can't keep your mouth shut when you've heard someone's inventory, then we suggest that you don't listen to a fist at. I like to add something to that, though. I like the idea that if there's a problem with gossiping or sharing about other people's situation, I like to suggest that you do the work in Alcoholics Anonymous you do The Twelve Steps you have a spiritual awakening those character defects that cause us to gossip and cause us to spread rumors and other things that shouldn't be spread those things within you will die and then you'll be able to be of service to God and your fellow man and you'll being able to listen to Fifth Steps and I also let them know that I fully understand and approve at what they're driving at and that I will not try to change their plan first full paragraph on the top is 75 when we decide who is to hear our story we waste no time that seems to be a time frame yet another time frame in the big book I'll call it synonymous we have our written four step inventory we've decided who is to hear it and we waste no time here's what I like to do when I'm working with another person they've completed their resentment inventory and their fear inventory and they're just about ready to start their sex inventory and harm others at that time I'll try to get a feel for how much more inventory they have to write and I'll usually set an appointment with them before they're even totally finished with their inventory and I will usually say something like well can you be done with this in a week and they will usually say well yeah we'll take out our calendars and we'll book a date to do the fifth step. And for me, that has been a really good tool because it keeps the flow going. It is a tool to kill off the defect of procrastination within me. That's something that I like to do. Also something that we do when we make the appointment for the fifth steps We set aside an entire day. Sometimes a fifth step will take, especially if it's the first one, sometimes it'll take 6, 7, 8, 12 hours. There's a lot that happens at a fifth stop. And you'll notice on the next line it says we have a written inventory and we're prepared for a long talk. Something I always like suggesting to people is to try to do it all in one sitting. Now, don't get me wrong if something comes up. I mean, we eat during that. Maybe we'll take a half-hour break to eat or whatever. I'm not talking about sitting and not ever getting up for eight hours. I'm Not Talking About That. But somehow when a first step is shared and a fifth step in one shot, you get the full force and the full picture of how your ego has harmed yourself and has harmed other people. But when it's broken up, because I've heard people say, you know, I've been doing my fifth step for a month, and what begins to happen is the same thing that happened over the years and all this stuff was happening. Your mind and your ego justifies what's happening and doesn't see it as that big of a deal. But then when you see it all in one shot, it's like just undeniable. like what's happened and you're just disgusted with all of it and it's a better catapult into 6 and 7 asking God to help you with this stuff because you just don't want to live this way anymore. So I just want to throw that out too. And I guess just for people that like it done this way, there's four points that the book makes on what to look for in a person you're going to do a fifth step with. About two-thirds of the way down it says It's someone who will understand, yet be unaffected. So that's sort of the first point. You know, if I wanted to perhaps share a fifth step with my wife, let's say, and then I start admitting to her that I cheated on her 10 years ago, what she wasn't aware of, and, you know, I did this, that person is going to be affected by all that. So it's got to be someone who'll understand, yet be uneffected The second point is the second line up from the bottom. It says that it's important that they're able to keep a confidence the next line is the third point that they fully understand and approve of what we're driving at and then the next line is the fourth point that we will not try to change our plan so and like Mike said you know we waste no time it's talked about in the third step of the decision will mean we'll have little permanent effect unless we at once go on to the fourth step and now that we've done the fourth steps we waste no time in doing a fifth step and you know in how it works it said if you want what we have and you're ready to go to any place to get it then you're ready to take certain steps. So the book is as we're going through the whole thing pointing out time frames of when to do certain things and these are another one. Do it at the first opportunity and then we waste no time when the fourth step's done. We have a written inventory and we are prepared for a long talk. we explained to our partner what we were about to do and why we have to do it I was doing a fist step with a guy one time and he was very fanatical about this point he asked me what are you about to do and why do you have to do his question basically was why are you here and the answer that I had to give him is that I'm about to share with you my searching and fearless moral inventory. I'm going to I'm not to share with you the exact nature of my defects that I've found by looking at my resentments, my fears and my harms to others with emphasis on sex and the reason that I have to do it is because if I don't do it I may not get over drinking and if I don't continue to do this work today I may not get over my alcoholism and I may go back to drinking you see again it's hooking us back to the spiritual malady that we talked about in step one that spiritual malody can come back at any moment and if that stuff is not rid of if the ego is not continually smashed and re-smashed and the ego rebuilds itself I could be headed towards a drink and not even know it it says that he should realize that we are engaged upon a life and death errand that's a good statement to turn into a question do I realize that Do I realize that I am engaged on a life and death errand, not only as the person who is sharing the inventory, but also the person who is listening to the inventory? As the sponsor, so to speak, listening to The Protégé's fistet, do I realize that this person's life is literally in my hands. If I make a false move and gossip about this person, this personís inventory, they could die. Iíve seen that in AA and itís really sad. Iíve see stuff like that happen and itís, itís really dangerous. And that can be taken in two different ways. Itís a life or death errand. Itís a very important thing. I mean if, if I go back to drinking i was on a mission that was leading toward me dying when i was drinking so it could go back to that again so it is very much a life or death erin you know it said before that we may not overcome drinking if we don't do this but also it can be taken a second way where um it's a life or death errand because it's the life of my spiritual loving unselfish nature and it's It's the death of my ego, selfish, fear-based nature. So that can be taken in a couple different ways as well. Most people approached in this way will be glad to help there or be honored by our confidence. We pocket our pride and go to it, illuminating every twist of character, every dark cranny of the past. I just want to give you a little sketch on what I do when I listen to a fifth step. And as Bill said, I block off the entire day on my calendar. I know people that block off an entire weekend. And I've been known to do that, to take people through the first eight steps. But we're talking about doing a fifth step here. And I block of the entire time. The entire day I have them get to – excuse me. I like to have them come over my house rather than go over theirs because many times there can be distractions at their place, and I know that my house is going to be quiet. And so I ask them if they can come over as early as possible. That way we have as much time as needed. I do some stuff that's not necessarily in the big book, but I like sage. So I purify the house and myself with sage because this is serious business. This is a real spiritual act that we're about to perform here. It's a very holy act. And sharing your wrongs, so to speak, is nothing new to this universe. It's been going on since man first crushed grapes, I guess. But listening to confession is a spiritual act, and I treat it that way. we usually have a few minutes of silent meditation we usually say a few prayers quite often I'll start off with the third step prayer just so we can reaffirm that decision together that we made previously and usually what I'll do is read the last two paragraphs in chapter 5 which are on pages 70 and 71. And I'll take as many of those statements as possible and turn them into questions. I'll give you a little example. You don't have to turn to it. But it says, if we have been thorough about our personal inventory, we have written down a lot. This is the last paragraph of 70. So I'll turn it into a question that I can ask them. I'll ask them have you been thorough about your personal inventory and have you written down a lot and a lot for one person may not be the same for another person but it's a lot for you I'll also ask them have you listed and analyzed your resentments I'll always ask them have you listened and analyzed your fears and your conduct and I'll ask them if they've begun to comprehend the futility and fatality of resentments, fears and sexual misconduct and I will ask them if they have commenced to see their terrible destructiveness and on and on bless you and those two paragraphs just are a good summation of the fourth step and it brings us to chapter 6 and I will read the paragraphs to them that we just covered here tonight and again we'll say a couple prayers we'll invite the power of God into the room although nowadays I'm letting them know that the power of God is here whether we invite it or not, but that's just something I like to do. Bill, you want to tell them what you have them do as far as admitting to God and to themselves with their inventory before we meet? Yeah, the fifth step says admit to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. So something I started doing over the last couple of years is after a person's finished with their fourth step, before we get together to do their fifth step, I ask them to spend a couple hours sharing their inventory, perhaps silently, with their higher power to go someplace where they feel God strongly, perhaps to a church or a synagogue or somewhere in nature or even in their own living room if they feel God's strongly there and share the inventory silently to their higher power. And some feedback that I've gotten from that and in doing it myself has been rather interesting because not only do they sometimes see a little bit more in some of the things that they had already written, but also they got a sense of forgiveness and power that they then bring into the fifth step that they share with another person. So that's something that I started doing and I've been getting some pretty interesting results with asking people to do that first and then come to do the inventory. And, you know, like I had shared when we did the How It Works part of the book, that I think that we do get a sense of forgiveness and an accumulation of power when we share it with our higher power. we then get understanding of how our inner workings works when we see it for ourselves and we also get a sense of humility when we share it with somebody else. So the fifth step can be rather powerful when done in its entirety. So by doing the fifth steps, we're pockoning our pride and we go to it and we illuminate every twist of character, every dark cranny of the past. And as Bill stated, you know, during the fifth step I take as many breaks as possible. It's not something that's meant to be totally exhausting and totally draining, although quite often it is that way for me. So what I usually do the night before, I usually make sure that I do in that morning I usually make sure that I do some extra meditating and I make sure that I get a real good night's sleep the night before because I give this thing my all you know that's just the way I've been taught and I give it my all and I'm totally open to that person contrary to to some of the tools and techniques that other people may use I am very active when listening to a fifth step I'm not the type of person that just sits there and shakes my head and rambles off the occasional uh-huh just to let you know I haven't passed out I get very active during these things and when I see something that sparks my intuition I don't hesitate to ask questions and this isn't meant to chop the person down or to intimidate them, again it's not from any moral spiritual hilltop but it's an ego deflating tool I've gotten I've done fifth steps where the other person has just kind of sat there and just listened and let me read this stuff off and you know in the beginning that's probably what I needed I just needed to get this stuff out But today, I need someone to interact with me. I need somebody like Bill or many other friends that I have in this fellowship to say, Mike, did you ever try looking at it this way? Or Mike, do you see that it's maybe not necessarily your defect of dishonesty that's causing this harm, but maybe it's really your defect of selfishness or maybe it's fear that's driving you to do this so I try to point those type of things out and I've had a couple instances where people just get so they'll kind of turn the whole thing in on themselves and start to beat themselves up and think that they're... See, the ego wants to be either the top dog or the lowest piece of scum on the face of the earth. And quite often it'll turn itself inside out on me. And I've worked with a couple people that just say, I can't believe this. This is I'm such a bad person. And I let them know that you're not a bad person. You're a beautiful person. It's these defects of character that drive you to do things that today you can do a different way. So sometimes I have this type of I'm having a hard time stringing together words tonight but it could be perceived as a type of harshness but I also try to come at this with great compassion because again we're dealing with people's lives here and I realize that today and like Mike said, this is very much a sacred, life-changing piece of the step. And another good way of leading into what Mike was talking about with the person listening to the fifth step, because that's something that's kind of interesting because I've often wondered why really none of our literature gets into how do you hear a fifth step. And don't get me wrong, when you do a fifth steps you learn the technique of how to hear one, but it really doesn't talk much about it in our literature. and one of our favorite lead-ins to throwing out something that the person perhaps didn't see in a really considerate way is by saying, you know, is it possible such and such? You know, because we don't want to necessarily say, you now, this is what's going on. We need to respect the person enough or rather approach the situation in a respectful way where we let them, this is their inventory. We shouldn't say, you know, you were selfish there. We should say, is it possible that you were selfish there? It's the person's inventory. It's not my version of it. It's their version of it. And if perhaps they don't see it, we can put it a different way. If they still don't see it perhaps in their mind it wasn't selfish. So we need to accept that. Also it says that a solitary self-appraisal is insufficient. So me appraising myself isn't enough. We need to have somebody else in there perhaps seeing trends that we didn't see perhaps seeing bits and pieces you know it's interesting how most often somebody from the outside can see a trend or can see a certain pattern of you know there it is again they weren't living up to your expectation again you know again and again and it starts becoming a whole lot more obvious to us sometimes before it does to the other person. And sometimes not, sometimes the person sees it immediately. Now in the middle of page on 75 it gives the fifth step promises and I like to go over these things after we've completed a fifth step and before I send the person home to answer the questions in the last paragraph of page 75. But it says, once we have taken the step withholding nothing, nothing we are delighted. We can look the world in the eye. We can be alone at perfect peace and ease. Our fears fall from us. We begin to feel the nearness of our Creator. We may have had certain spiritual beliefs, but now we begin to have a spiritual experience. The feeling that the drink problem has disappeared will often come strongly. We feel we are on the broad highway walking hand in hand with the spirit of the universe. Now, the last paragraph on this page gives some questions that we are to answer after a fifth step. And in that paragraph with the promises that Mike just read, I've been at meetings where somebody read that and then said, well, you know, after I finished my fifth step I wasn't delighted. I felt like an open wound. I felt worse after I did a fifth step than before I did the fifth step. And inevitably, after that meeting's over, I'll walk up to that person and say, well, how did you do your fourth step? And they'll tell me they either did a life story or a Hazelden guide or some other technique. And what I try to point out to them is that the promises that are there as the result of doing it out of the big book, these aren't the promises of every fourth step that you could ever find anywhere in the world these are as the result of the technique that's out of this book so it's been my experience in doing it this way that i was delighted that i remember especially the first first step that i did or fifth step when i was done with my fifth step i felt like an incredible weight was lifted off my back i felt relieved in an extreme way because for the first time i had just revealed myself to someone and it was an incredible feeling so you know again those promises are as the result of doing it the way this book outlines also notice it says there that you know we had certain spiritual beliefs and now we begin to have a spiritual experience uh it's kind of referring to the second step but since the second step we've taken a whole lot of action so now we're starting to have experiences because we're taking certain actions that are moving not only away from the beliefs but deepening and broadening those beliefs so you know that the experiences that we have are as the result of taking certain action since we are getting close to uh an hour i was going to uh cover six and seven also but we'll save that for next week so next week we'll probably do six seven eight and hopefully have time for nine I'll just finish up this part of the meeting with the last paragraph on 75 and then open it up to you guys returning home we find a place where we can be quiet for an hour carefully reviewing what we have done the gentleman who took Bill and I through the steps initially. He did not send us home after our fifth step to go about our merry way. He was kind enough to allow us to stay in his home. When he did this with me, I think he even left for a period of time. But he allowed me to stay in an environment that I was, at the time, very comfortable in because we had just spent the whole day going over my inventory. And he allowed me to stay at his place for an hour to do these fifth-step review questions, so to speak. Actually, it's a review of the first five steps. So since having that experience, I like to do that with other people. around the corner from my house there's a nice little duck pond sometimes if they like that type of scenery it's not 10 degrees outside I'll send them over to the park down the street I used to live in New Providence and not too far from there is a place is a church called the Shrine of St. Joseph and they have a very nice chapel there. And it's just a real nice place to be quiet. So I suggest that to people if you have churches or quiet spots that you want to send people to, that's been very helpful for me. Or if they choose to, they can stay right in my house and I'll go out and get a bite to eat or something. Or I'll goes to the park and meditate or something So I like to let them stay at my place so they don't have to go home to a possibly chaotic home. Because, you know, let's face it, when we're newly sober, sometimes the household isn't, and we've contributed to that. So I Like to Let Them Stay in an Environment Where I Know That They're Going to Be Quiet for an Hour. and then then I tell them to answer the following questions that again are on the bottom of 75 actually the first one is a direction, it's a prayer direction, It says we thank God from the bottom of our heart that we know Him better and that can be a prayer and that could also be a question after having done this fifth step Do I feel like I know God better? And it's pretty interesting because you would think that after I've just shared with you all this stuff on my inventory, you would Think that it would say, I know myself better. But no, it says, I Know God Better. Because by admitting to God, myself, another human being, the exact nature of my wrongs, I'm actually describing to you what God is not. Did you get that? By sharing with you my wrongs, my shortcomings, my defects, and the things that block me off from God, I'm sharing with You these things within me that are not of God. And if we can get rid of those things by part of the fifth step, we'll begin to do that. Six and seven will enable the defects to be cast out. If we can Get Rid of Those Things Which Block Us Off from God, by default, God will show up within us. And I'll get more into that next week as I talk about six and seven. And I've seen again and again and again in many different sources that God is truth, and we certainly have gotten a large dose of truth as we've done our fifth step. So again, we're getting to know God a whole lot better. So taking this book down from our shelf, we turn to the page which contains the 12 steps. And for those of you who know that we really do believe that you should follow each of the directions out of this book, we'll be selling shelves later in case nobody has one okay two people thought that was funny that's good um carefully reading the first five proposals uh and you can find those first five proposals first five steps on page 59 we ask if we have omitted anything for we're building an arch through which we shall walk, a free man or woman at last. Is our work solid so far? Again, in reference to the first five steps, is my work solid so far. Are the stones properly in place? What do they mean by are the stones probably in place. Well we found out in Bill's story that upon a complete foundation of willingness that Bill saw that he might have what his friend Ebi had. So the first step is the foundation. The second step is the cornerstone, which is if we now believe or if we are even willing to believe that a power greater than ourselves will restore us to sanity it says that that second step is our cornerstone and then it refers to the third step that we made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of god as we understand god it says our third step decision is the keystone and for uh for those that may not know, the keystone, first of all the cornerstone is a stone that you quite often see on a building that has the date on it. And the key stone is a bone at the, the book makes the analogy of an arch. It's the stone at the very top of the arch that's going to hold all the rest of the stones together. So that's what he's talking about here that are the stones properly in place. If I hadn't read the pages and done the work that precedes this point, I wouldn't have known what they were talking about. It says, have we skimped on the cement put into the foundation? Part of our foundation is equal parts of common problem and equal parts of common solution equal parts of recovery and equal parts of the fellowship so have I skimped on any of that cement put into the foundation and have I tried to make mortar without sand have I try to do the rest of the program or have I tried to do the program up to this point without having the fellowship or have I been involved in the fellowship without being involved in the program and on the top of 76 it says if we can answer to our satisfaction we then look at step 6 which we will get into next week Do you have anything else you want to add? And as you can see, again, with the time frames, it says we waste no time in getting to the fifth step after we do the fourth step. After we finish the fifth stop, we spend an hour. And like Mike just read, after we spend that hour reviewing if we're thorough on the first five steps, it then says if you can answer to your own satisfaction those questions that you just asked during that hour, we then look at step six. after step six it says are you ready to let God help you with this stuff and it says when ready then we say our seventh step and that's why five, six seven and even sometimes eight are all done in that same day that we do our fifth step that again I've done when I first started sponsoring people I had sometimes waited after a fifth step to get into six and seven and inevitably again there wasn't as much of a force and there wasn'T as much of a moment a momentum of asking god to help me with these defects of character but when i did it uh immediately following the hour after the fifth step i've never once had somebody say to me uh there are some character defects i'd like to hold on to because at that point it is in their face they just spent perhaps six or seven hours going through how these character defects have harmed them and other people and i've ever in doing a six and seven right after of the hour after 5, had somebody say, you know, there's some defects I want to hold on to because, again, it's undeniable. Okay. Again, we'll get into 6 and 7 next week. At this time, we'd like to open up the meeting to you guys for discussion, and thanks for letting us share. Thank you.