The Emotional Hangover After a Self-Will Binge – Bob

My name is Bob, I'm an alcoholic. Welcome back. There's a saying in AA that three frogs sat on a log, two of them made a decision to jump in the water. How many frogs are on the log? Three, because they only made a decision, right? If they did step six and seven, you'd hear the splash. And that takes us to page 76. Two very simple paragraphs for two very in-depth steps. You know, there's a thing that seems to be true in Alcoholics Anonymous. If you're having a problem with a certain step, a lot of times it's not that step that's really the problem, it's usually a step before that. A lot of times people get stuck in being prepared to look at things at an entirely different angle in step four because they haven't really made a legitimate decision in step three, or maybe they haven't really fully conceded to their innermost self that sober, they can't manage their own life. They think they're right. And step six is really the crux of the matter. You can't do step six and seven if you haven't done four and five out of the book because they kind of, one, they're just like a staircase. One builds off the other. And I think, in my experience, the story of the last 30 years of my sobriety has been the story of how I've become entirely ready in step six. My sponsor tells a story that I think is very good. He says that most of us come to AA, we're so beaten by the bottle that we throw the towel in. Our alcoholism's killing us. And then what happens is in a short time, we get just enough self-esteem to be dangerous. And we sneak the towel back. And we'll spend the rest of our life tearing little bits and pieces of it off and throwing it into the IRS, the judgments, the gambling, the pornography, the computer, the shopping, the credit card debt, the gratifying ourselves with this and that. We just spend the rest of our sobriety throwing bits and pieces of it into the thing. How do we become entirely ready? Well, I think there's two ways. One is by pain and one is by inspiration. Unfortunately, pain is the common, more common motivator in Alcoholics Anonymous. More people grow from pain here than they do from inspiration. And which is kind of sad because inspiration is a lot more fun. But unfortunately, we hold on to stuff and we don't become entirely ready easily. And what seems to happen, and at least this was true for probably the first 15 or 17 years of my sobriety for sure, I hope to go back to that. But the thing is, I think, God, it's changed a little bit in the last several years, is that I didn't surrender something. I wore it out. Until I've just wrung every bit of fun and self-gratification out of it. And the same thing has happened to it that happened with drinking. None of us get drinking when we're in the fun. We never get sober when they're fun. We never get sober when we're on the stage of drinking. Nobody does. I mean, and if you did, we'd try to run you out of here because we would hate to have you lose those couple fun years. I mean, it would be an abominable. Wouldn't it be the worst thing that could possibly happen is you get sober and find out you had three fun years left? I mean, that's terrible. Most of us get sober when we've wrung all the fun out of it and it's turned on us and it's pretty pathetic. We get glimpses of ourselves the way other people see us and it breaks our heart. It's embarrassing. And I think the same thing happens with a lot of our character defects. There's a... But why do I hold on to these things that cause me pain, that cause me jobs, that cause me relationships, that affect my very sense of myself? Because there's an illusion with every defective character. In Bill's story, he does a thumbnail sketch of the 12 steps. And when he gets to step six, he's like, six and seven. He talks about them differently than anywhere else in AA literature. He says he asks God to remove these things. And he says, root and branch. As if there's two parts. And there is. There is the thing that's causing me trouble, which you could say would be the consequences. But what is the value, the illusion of value? See, I want God to take the branch because it's poking me in the eye, but what's the root? Why do I keep doing this? What is it? What's the thing in me that secretly, I think there's value in it. When I was a kid, when I was a little kid, there used to be a TV show on called Rescue 8. Some of you may have seen it. If you ever go to Universal Studios, they have a part of the sets in the studios, the firehouse. That's where they filmed it, part of it. And it was a story. It was a regular TV show about these paramedics who worked out of a firehouse and they'd go out and help people that were in trouble. And this one particular episode really stuck with me. And I was just a little kid when I saw it. These paramedics go out to this scene where this, this tiny little girl, cute little girl is stuck with her arm wedged into a vending machine. And that she can't get it out. And she's crying and she's hysterical. And the parents are there and they're hysterical. And now after that, now the firemen are showing up and they're pulling torches and saws off the truck to cut the door off, which is making the little girl even more frightened and the parents more nuts. And it's just chaos. And the one paramedics just standing there and he's just looking at this little girl. And he finally says to her, he says, sweetheart, do you have something in your hand? And she goes, uh huh. What do you got in your hand? A candy bar. Would you let go of the kid? No, it's my kid. He burns my kid. He burns my candy bar. It's my candy bar. But if you don't let go of the candy bar, we can't get you. It's my candy bar. She will not let go of this candy bar. And he says to her, he says, sweetheart, if you will let go of that candy bar, I promise you. That I will get you two candy bars. And only because she finally trusts him, she says, really? He says, I promise. She lets go of the candy bar and her arm slides out of the vending machine. What's your candy bar? There's a candy bar. Why do we hold on to stuff? Not because I'm self-destructive. There's some illusion of value or validation or security or self-gratification. Or something that I think is a good deal hidden in the defect. And Chamberlain used to say it was a process of uncovering, discovering, and then discarding. Because I think that I am, I become entirely ready to have God remove something when I see that there's no value in it. When I was really, when I, at the end of my drinking, I was ready for Alcoholics Anonymous because there, I, I got it. I was ready for Alcoholics Anonymous because there, I, I got it. I was ready for Alcoholics Anonymous because there, I, I got it. This is a dead end street but not a, not a moment before. There's an old story about a guy who goes into the psychiatrist's office and he says to the psychiatrist, Doc, you, you got to help me. I'm just, I'm going crazy here. I don't know what to do. And he says, what's the problem? He says, well. My brother-in-law lives with me. My brother-in-law's insane doc. He thinks he's a chicken. Every morning when the Sun comes up, he runs up and down the block, naked, flapping, and his arms clucking like a bird. The cops are over at my house all the time. The neighbors will have nothing to do with me. This is ruining my life. Please, Doc, help me out. And the psychiatrist says, well, that's not a problem here. Sign these committal papers. I'll put your brother-in-law in the state mental hospital. Your problems are over. He goes, oh, Doc, I don't know if I can live without the eggs. There's eggs. I bet you everyone in this room would like to be free of the sleeplessness when your head's going like a rotisserie from a resentment and that horrible feeling when you see the person you resent where it feels like a cold wind is going through the pit of your stomach. Everybody wants to be free of that. But are you willing to give up the ego gratification of the judgment, the sense of being smugly, or are you willing to be superior? You can't be free of one without the other. I want God to take away the consequences of the resentment, but let me still have the resentment. Everyone I've ever met would like to be free of that feeling, the hangover, the emotional hangover, and that sickness of your spirit when you've done something, when you've been on a mission, when you've been on a mission, when you've been on a self-will binge or a self-gratification binge, and maybe you did something in the sexual area that you really shouldn't have done. But your lust or maybe your fear of being alone or your insecurities drove you, and you went and did something that, if you hadn't had this big vacancy inside you, you wouldn't have done. Everybody I know wants to be free of that hungover feeling afterwards. Do you know that inappropriate sex is like the exact opposite of going to Disneyland to ride magic, to ride Space Mountain on the 4th of July? If you go to Disneyland on the 4th of July, it's usually about 98 degrees, 98% humidity. You stand in line for four to five hours of hell with all these screaming kids for 30 seconds of excitement. Inappropriate sex gives you the 30 seconds up front, and then you feel like crap about yourself for just endless. The insanity of alcoholism is that alcoholics often at times think 30 seconds of fun in exchange for six months of misery seem like a good deal to us sometimes. Sometimes. So, do I, can I connect the dots? Can I connect the dots that certain, that certain things are connected to the way you feel afterwards? Right? I have a friend in AA who, it sounds bizarre, but he used to go out with prostitutes. He'd pay huge amounts of money, and then every time he was done, he felt bad. He felt terrible about himself. And I asked him one time, I said, so, what's the price of feeling bad? I said, you're paying money to feel bad about yourself? And he looks at me like, what am I talking about? I said, every time you do that, you get depressed and feel like crap. You're paying money to feel, I'll tell you what, why don't you just give me $300, and I'll tell you what an idiot you are. You won't be in danger of catching nothing or nothing. Right? Can we connect the dots? Can you see that to do this equals that? And there's a prayer in the sixth step. It's at the very bottom of the first paragraph. It says, if we still cling to something, we will not let go. We ask God to help us be willing. Now, I don't know when I, when I was a little over four years sober, I finished the fifth step and I did six and seven and went on and wrote my eight step list. And I never saw that prayer. Now, I don't know objectively if I didn't see it because I didn't want to see it, or I just didn't see it, but I never said that prayer. And I took a position for the next many years that was very, very painful. And the position was that I'm going to conquer myself. I'm going to conquer myself. I'm going to conquer myself. I'm going to conquer myself. And I don't think there's anything worse in AA than that. And I'll tell you, and if you do that for five or 10 years, you'll understand why the first word in the seventh step is humbly. Because you fail. And what would happen to me is I would become stronger in every defect that I fought with self-will. It's, there's a principle in the universe for every action. There's an opposite, and equal reaction. It was almost as if I gave the defects energy and power over me by fighting them. It's very much like a slingshot effect. Okay, I'm not going to ever do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm even superior to people who do that. I become the intolerant, reformed whatever. And then what happens is lack of power is my dilemma. I run out of power. And all of a sudden I'm right in the middle. One of the defects that I really became so painfully aware of in my fourth and fifth step is how judgmental I was. I mean, my resentment list was so pathetic of all these little petty judgments that I had of people. And so I made up my mind I was not going to be judgmental. So here's what happened. I became the guy who was very judgmental of people who were judgmental. All right? Which makes me exact. I was exactly like them. What I was doing was with willpower. I had a sponsee who was a good guy. I sponsored him for probably 14 years. And he would have told you for another two and a half years after that I was his sponsor, but I wasn't. When he was 14 years sober, he had a defect that he had fought with self-will for 14 years. And he had a lot of self-will. A lot of willpower, I'll tell you. And he fought it with modicum of success externally, except that he became the reformed guy. And it was in the sexual arena. And it was something that to him was such, he felt so bad about and was such an abomination, he could not take it to God. It was almost as if I got to clean, in order to take this to God, I got to get cleaned up a little bit. Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right. Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right. Right? Right? Right? Right. that should have known better, who was not a psychiatrist, when he came to a meeting one day and said, you know, I'm really in this funk. Depression gave him antidepressants, which enabled him to continue the behavior. Well, about a year later, he calls me up, and he says, my doctor wants me to take, I thought I should call you. Now, he hasn't been calling me. He calls me once in a while just to tell me he's all right. He calls me up, and he says, my doctor wants me to take sleeping pills. I said, sleeping pills? You can't, alcoholics can't do sleeping pills. I mean, if you're not sleeping, let's find out why. What's got you spinning in your head? What's got you anxious? What's got you, what's unresolved in you? Oh, no, it's nothing like that. This is a chemical reaction to the antidepressants. Now, I'm supposed to be the guy sponsoring. I said, you're on antidepressants? He said, yeah. I said, how come you never told me? Well, it's a brain chemistry thing. That's medical, none of your business. I said, well, okay. I said, look, I'm not a psychiatrist or doctor. I don't know about antidepressants, but God, I've always thought and been told that alcoholics can't take sleeping pills. He said, no, no, it's a legitimate reason. Well, another little period of time went by, and he had a heart incident. Ended up in the hospital. They had to do surgery on him. They gave him pain medicine. The pain medicine touched the sickness of his spirit and took off. Within three months, his brother, gets me, and they have him strapped down in the intensive care unit. He'd been up to over 30 lower tabs a day, and he had all these doctors running, and they cross-checked that stuff, and they all cut him off on the same day. And his blood pressure went through the roof, and they thought he was going to have a stroke, and they put him in intensive care, and he's a mess. And I walk into the room, or into this thing where the bed is, the cubicle or whatever it is, with a curtain, and the minute I walk in, he starts crying. He says, this doesn't mean I've got to change my sobriety date, does it? The ego never dies. It'll kill us, but it doesn't want to die. It doesn't care if it kills us, as long as it's intact. And I said to him, I said, listen, we'll deal with that later. Well, after he got back on his feet, he refused to change his sobriety date, and he eventually got addicted again to drugs, and then he started drinking. And within a very short period of time, a guy who, a coach soccer, who worked out at the gym four or five times a week, a guy that was in perfect health, he died, and as he's dying, everything's going wrong with him, and the doctors are astounded why everything's shutting down, why every, I mean, everything just started going wrong with him. And I'll tell you what I believe. I can't prove it. There's a line in our book, it says, when the spiritual malady is overcome, we straighten out mentally and physically. I think the reverse is true. I think if I get sick in here, with my spirit and myself, I think it is not unusual for me to start getting physically sick. Ulcers, headaches, spastic colitis, all of a sudden, I am in conflict with myself. When I, my spirit's sick is when I start thinking weird stuff. I'm more defensive, I'm more paranoid, I'm more controlling. I get mentally and physically ill. I think what I watched in him over a couple year period was almost like that, the reverse of the portrait of Dorian Gray. And within just a couple years, a guy who was a vital guy looked like an 80-year-old guy dying of cancer. It was the most unbelievable thing I'd ever seen. And I think it was all because he couldn't take step six and seven with this one deal. There's no way I can prove that, but I just, in here, intuitively, I, I, I watched, watched that whole thing come down. I really sensed that that was the deal. See, I gotta, I can take anything to God. This idea, which is one of my old ideas, that I have to clean my act up first before I can go to God is a deadly idea. Because lack of power is my dilemma. If, if I could overcome my defects of character by self-will, I would have done that years ago. I can't do it. And what are my defects of character? Aren't they, aren't they kind of like defense mechanisms that I use to defend myself against a life that I'm afraid is gonna be boring, vacant, insecure, and lonely? Why do I do these things? Because I'm in here. I ain't right. And so I, I grab onto certain things. Why do I judge people? Because on a spiritual bad hair day, I do it trying to pump me up. Right? I think if I pull you down enough, maybe I'll be better. What, what is lust except a defense against a life that I'm afraid is gonna be boring, that's gonna be lonely, that's gonna be vacant? What is anger except a defense against the fear that you're, that you're afraid of? That's the fear that you're gonna walk over me or take advantage of me, or get in my way or take something from me. All my defects of character are just defense mechanisms. The problem is they're defective. Alcoholics Anonymous would never even insinuate that I would give up anything that makes me happy, joyous, and free. AA is a funny place. In churches, you go to most churches and you're a sinner, you got certain, what we call, we, Bill in his story equates sins and defects when he's talk goes through the steps. In most churches, if you're a sinner, they want you to join the church, but they kinda want you to quit sinning. I mean, it's sort of implied in the literature. I mean, you know, they, they want you to kind of straighten up your act. We don't do that in AA. We're not at all. Matter of fact, we'll go to coffee, talk about somebody. We talk about, in a loving spirit, loving colors, say, somebody, Ralph will say, do you know what so and so's do? Do it. And I'll say, you said one of us will say, yeah, I know. If he lives, he's gonna help a lot of people. Right? Because what makes me useful in the, except the things, not my perfections, the things within me that have, that are so helpful to the people I sponsor and some of the new people I work with are the things that have been wrong. The things where I've missed the mark, the mistakes I've made, the times I've fallen short. In the seventh step prayer, I'm reminded of the third step where I'm asking God not to take away the things that stand in the way of me being happy, but to take away the things that stand in the way of my usefulness. And I'm being prepared to serve a purpose that we call primary. That is, who am I going to serve? As I've been in this lifestyle, this altruistic lifestyle of self abandonment in service. And I'm asking God to take away the things that stand in the way of my usefulness. And God has taken some things from me that I'm not so sure I was done with. But He took them. No, they don't work anymore. You know how he takes stuff? As you do it. You're just going to go to sleep. That's no good. You do it one day, it's fun. You do it two months later, and it makes you feel sick inside, and you can't do it anymore. Just one, you know, it was fun there. Why did you have to pull the plug on that all of a sudden? And then he leaves stuff. I've had a couple defects of character that I've asked him to take away, and they stay there. Now, I don't know objectively if it's because he finds them useful or if I'm deluded about really being entirely ready. Maybe I'm still in the delusion that I think that I want him to take the whole thing, root and branch, but I really just want the branch to go. I don't know. But from in here looking out, it often looks like I'm pretty ready about this one, and yet it seems to be reoccurring. Or at times it will be covered by a thin veneer, and then on a spiritual bad hair day, it's like the, the veneer cracks and it rises up again. You know? And I think it always reminds me that I still have been the shadow of who and what I am. I've always, everything that God has removed sort of lingers around somewhere. I, he removed a compulsion to gamble within me that was brutal. When I was a year and a half sober, I had a tremendous bottom, and it became entirely ready. And then at about 25, five years sober with about $2 million, I got in the stock market, but it wasn't really gambling. This is investing in my retirement. Till about a couple of years later, I'm insane on the computer eight hours a day. I mean, trading stocks. I'm nuts. And it took me six months of prayer every day. And then one day I got up and I sold everything and I've never looked back. Six months asking him every day. I'd be asking him as I'm trading stocks. You gotta take this away. Ralph, take me off the hook. When ready, we say something like this. My creator, I am now willing that you should have all of me good and bad. I pray that you now remove from me every single defect of character, which stands in the way of my usefulness to you. And my fellows grant me strength as I go out from here to do your bidding. Amen. We have then completed step seven. Now we need more action without which we find the faith with our works is dead. Let's look at steps eight and nine. We have a list of persons we had harmed and to whom we are willing to make amends. And that's an interesting step. I don't know why it is that every time, you know, we have a discussion about the, the eighth and the ninth step. Invariably, somebody brings up, well, there's been this link room and then when is so and so going to make their amends to me? And we do not have a step that says waited for direct amends, you know, from those who, when you know, that's not what this is about. May direct the man says, uh, and, and contrary to popular belief, some people say, and I'm others, Bill Wilson that a pretty good grasp of the English language. And he did not say, except when they use over the injured me or others. Mm hmm. I'm not others. And then your, it says that we made this list when we tilt him into her. Um, sometimes when I've read it and that jumped out at me in later years and I've started thinking, maybe I'm somewhat deficient in doing inventory because my inventory list does not include everybody on my resentment. Let my every, my inventory list does not include everybody on my men's list. But at any rate, um, it, I don't trip off of it too much because I just make sure everybody's on my man's list who belongs in my man's list So I start looking in my inventory and I start looking at people from that list and that's my starting point But there are many people who've shown up on my man's list who never showed up In my resentment inventory or my sex inventory So I made a list of persons I'd harm and I do three lists and And that's me nowhere in the book does it say do it that way a lot of times when Bob and I are sharing some Of it is experience that we share I'm very careful to say when I'm sharing the way I do something as opposed to what's the black writing? It is what's the black writing? But it's a method I use because I'm gonna put every name on the list and I divide my list into three You know the way I do it. It's the now list is the laterness and it's the never list That way I don't reside with somebody Floating around in my head that I say I'm never gonna make amends to them. No, I get everybody on paper now later and never and that's how I divide the list for myself and I Start looking in there and the big book alcoholics anonymous has some useful suggestions, you know and right at the bottom A face that wasn't amends Before we go any further, you know, I don't like to assume that we know what it means We had a lot of hands and new friends When we asked the newcomers earlier today, what is an amends? Try to fix something Reparation Make right or wrong that you've done the others I Didn't hear you being accountable for your side of the street Changing your behavior so people are given different aspects of an amends, you know an amends in an apology or are somewhat different and apology is you know an Apology can be is a part of the amends But it is not a complete amends, you know, so an apology can be part of an amends But an apology can stand alone, you know and an amends so an apology is called for I walk by Bob and step on his shoes I interrupt him when he's talking Bob. I'm sorry. I interrupted you and keep it moving. I don't need to do anything else By the same token, I didn't just step on his toes. I'm drinking my tea. I spill it on Bob's pants I said damn Bob. I'm sorry. I spilled his tea on your pants. That's the apology How much is it going to cost for you to get it clean? Let me get your pants clean. I get his pants clean for him. I rectify and I make right I restored with former condition. I make right or wrong I try to make it whole and to the extent possible That's the aspect of amends that we get concerned with making right or wrong and restoring to its former condition winter I did it all possible. I stole the TV. I replaced the TV. I stole some money. I replaced the money I owe money. I replaced the money. I stole a ring I try to find out the value of the ring if it's no longer in the pawn shop and I repay it, you know Reparations of restitution, you know And in the and we'll go through some various pages parts in the book that talks about how we make amends First thing we see at the bottom of page 76 is some squiggly, right? Remember When you see that word remember or Reminding ourselves, you know bad news follows Remember It was agreed at the beginning when you came up in here in that condition Where you said help me I give up I'm told I'm willing to do whatever it takes because ego rebuilds itself Thank God and the eighth and ninth step or where they are because now I've cleared the way to the breed It separates me from this power I've now accessed some power I'm now in a position where because there are some conditions I need to meet before I can go about making amends And we'll talk about some conditions. I need to meet to make these amends, but it says remember it was agreed at the beginning I will go to any lengths for victory over alcohol right there. Let's get ready It's going to be some stuff that comes up that I'm not going to like. When you've got to give me the reminder off the top, get ready for some bad news. Remember, it was agreed at the beginning that you said you were willing. Now for the bad news. You know, probably it's a misgivance. So at the top of page 77, it talks about the purpose of doing amends. And I might want to get right with the people that are mad at me or I'm not right with. Some of the times it's friends, it's coworkers, it's family members, and I really would like to be forgiven, and I really would like to get back in their good graces. And I might really like to get the friendship back or I'd like to restore the family. Those are good motives, but that's not the real end in itself. Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be a maximum service to God and the people about us. Fit myself to be a maximum service. I'm estranged from the family. One of the family members did something to me that I cannot forgive. I haven't talked to, you know, somebody probably hasn't talked to their sister in years. I haven't talked to their mom in years. I'm not in a position to be a maximum service. Because one day, mom, sister, nephew, brother, who knows, may need some help. Just the kind of help that somebody needs. Somebody like me can give. And because I'm not in the loop, I'm not in the family when they go to ICU and they need somebody to show up down there. Or I'm not in the family when my nephew starts smoking or drinking and I'm uniquely qualified to know where treatment is. Because I'm not in position. I'm not able to be a maximum service. So it talks about our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be a maximum service. Then it starts talking about some of the conditions. And we're not the common people. We are the conditions for making amends. The question of how to approach the man we hated will arise. Middle of page 77. We go to him. Here are the conditions for making amends. Here are the conditions for making amends. We go to him in a helpful and forgiving spirit, confessing our former ill feeling and expressing our regret. If I still have the ill feeling. If I don't, but I do. If I still regret. If I still let it go. If I let it go. Don't regret what went down. And all this suggests I probably haven't done what? Go back a little further. Probably haven't done an inventory on these people. If I still have not, if I can't go in a forgiving spirit, if I have not disregarded their side entirely, if I have not, then I probably don't meet the condition to make this amends. And check this out. I'm a person. I'm a human being. Sometimes the process of writing inventory still does not put me in the proper frame of mind to do a specific amends. There were some people who showed up on three or four of my inventories. Can't tell you why. Like Bob, maybe I deluded myself that I had seen all the truth about that condition. I can't tell you why. I just tell you who I am, and I tell you my own experience. There were some people who showed up three or four times. And they were the ones who showed up. And I'm not going to keep that up. There were some people who showed up three times. There were some people who showed up. Maybe I was shallow enough in each year and each inventory I wrote, God revealed a little bit more. Maybe I got more thorough. Maybe I got more willing. Maybe I got more humble. Maybe I learned more about humility and fearlessness each time. But there are some conditions to meet. That's why in doing amends, it is very important, you know, to do each one specifically. Go over them with a sponsor. Because one of the things, you know, I find if I lie to myself and I can't meet this first condition, if I can't go to them in a helpful and forgiving spirit, confessing my former ill feeling, I'm going to tell you what's going to happen. I'm going to sit up here and I'm going to say, you know what, Bob, you know, for the last few years, you know, I owe you some money and I really want to repay you. I'm going to make this payment arrangements. And, you know, I really didn't intend to sleep with your sister. And Bob is going to look at me and be like, yeah, man, that really was. Man, I didn't have to come to you in the first. And next thing you know, I owe another amends. Next thing you know, I owe another amends. Because I don't know how that person is going to respond or react. When I'm making amends to somebody, I got to be real prepared. And we'll talk about that on another page. I don't know how the person is going to respond. And if I'm still hair triggered, thinking I'm doing him a favor by going to him, thinking I'm doing him a favor by going to him, I'm not ready to make that amends. So conditions for making amends. You know, first I have to go in a helpful and forgiving spirit. Under no condition do I criticize such a person. Under no condition do I criticize. I'm here to sweep off my side of the street, realizing nothing worthwhile can be accomplished until I do so. I never try to tell him what to do. That's at the top of page 78. Okay. I dude the list is very simple. One or two things in a two-way street. The way I interpret it is that I understand that I'm not responsible for it. You don't know what happened to K inexact k chart bank. Are they lying? Involved? No no . Amends? when I'm making the amends it's a one-way street so it is very important if you wouldn't have said this to me I wouldn't have done that no no what about that money you owe me no no well what about the time that you came over it no no what about what you did to me when we were over my mom no his faults are not discussed we sticked our own nine times out of ten the unexpected happened these are the things that might happen nine times out of ten the unexpected happened sometimes he admits his own faults that might happen rarely do we fail to make satisfactory progress that might happen our former enemies sometimes prays but we're doing and wish is well that might happen sometimes they offer assistance that might happen sometimes next time when the kid comes home and wants to go to bed he's gonna Sometimes they throw us out of the office. That might happen. That might happen. We have made our demonstration. We've done our part. What about people who owe money? Most alcoholics owe money. We don't dodge our creditors. We tell them what we're trying to do. Skip down a couple of lines in that paragraph, arranging the best deal we can. We let these people know we're sorry. In financial amends, found it very helpful to go with a good faith demonstration. Don't just go with an apology and an I'm sorry. Our man is sure to be more interested in a demonstration. On page 77, it goes back to this. But our man is sure to be impressed with a sincere desire to set right the wrong. He is going to be more interested in a demonstration of good will than in our talk of spiritual discoveries. Man, Bob, I owe you $200. As soon as I get a job, man, I really would like to come back. I'm in this. Spiritual program. Bob, I don't have a lot of money. And here's the deal with financial amends. Don't do like me. First time I set out to make amends, ego was still alive. And I had some problems with it. And good intention. Good intention. I wasn't making a lot of money. I started making amends when I was about 15 months sober. And I wasn't making a lot of money. I didn't start working until I was 18 months sober. And I went to somebody. And I owed them some money. It sounded like a lot at the time. I wish that's all the money I owe right now. It was a few hundred dollars, man. But it sounded like so much. And I didn't have a lot of money. And I went to a person. And I was embarrassed with what I had to bring to them. And I was embarrassed with the terms I had to offer them. And I'm a guy that's interested in what I think you think about me, right? So even though I had done inventory, even though I was in the process of six and seven, that still was with me. So I made a deal. I made terms of a deal that I couldn't live up to. Here's $50. I'm going to pay you every two weeks $100 until this bill is paid. I defaulted on the deal two weeks after the first payment was due. I defaulted on it. So now I owe a fresh amends. Because now I've lied to you about the amends I'm going to make behind owing you some money in the first place. So what's the lesson in that one? First thing, take a good faith. So some amends, when I have amends, it's a couple of aspects of amends. First, I might be ready. I might be willing. But I'm not ready. I'm not ready because I don't have a good faith demonstration. And sometimes I might be ready, but I'm not willing. I might have the ability to make the amends, but I'm not willing. I can't meet the other conditions. I cannot not concentrate on your faults. I'm not in fit spiritual condition. I'm not in the position to go to you, especially in a slippery situation. Some people in here might owe amends to an ex. Might owe amends to an ex-spouse or an ex-mate. And some hurt is still there on both sides. You know, time heals emotional wounds. And that might be a slippery situation to go into. Some of you might have encounters where I could have it in my head. I could have it in my head. I swear when I talk to her, I'm going to be kind and loving. I hear that same voice. And we get to that same thing. I'm going to be kind and loving. And it goes the same place. And she says that same button pusher every time. And I'm gone. I am gone. Without . . . I mean . . . So, I've got to not lie to myself above . . . even in that one. Take it to my sponsor. Make sure that I'm ready. So, I'm making financial amends. I have a good faith demonstration. I do terms that I know I can live up to. Then I live up to them. What's the aspects of making amends anyway. The first thing I do is. I go and I say what it is you're allowing me to live up to. Yeah. So, five minutes and you're rushing up the next one. is that I know that I've done to hurt a person, you know. And I say to you, Bob, I know that these are the things. Well, I did amends with my ex-wife. The very first amends I ever made, did it with my ex-wife. Again, like I said, I was about 14 or 15 months sober. Came over to my mom's house where I was living to pick up my daughter. I said, Mary, I need to talk to you. She's saying, oh, okay. And I said, no, I really need a few minutes to talk to you. She said, that's all right. I really don't want to talk about it. I said, no. If I don't talk to you, I might go back to getting loaded. Oh, okay. You know, and she hurried up and sat down then, you know. And we sat down and we started talking. And I said to her, you know, I didn't talk about I'm an alcoholic. I'm trying to set my life in order. I mean, the wording is good and it's optional. She already knew that. And she was happy for me. And I said I wasn't the best husband I could be. I didn't bring my checks home from work every two weeks. I stayed out all night and I stayed in. You know, and I didn't say I was sleeping around. I said I wasn't the best husband. I didn't say I wasn't the best husband I could be. And I didn't do all the things that you should have expected from your husband. You know, I caused you so many sleepless nights. I didn't bring, I've had guys come over to the house and threaten you. I took money out of the house. I took all the money. I emptied your bank account. And I went, I went line by line. I had the car stolen. I had cars repossessed. And I went through it and went through it and went through it. I didn't pay rent. All of the things that I knew I had done. And after I went through all of those things, I said, is there anything you need to tell me? And the floodgates opened. She went from I don't want to say anything to you to now having a forum. And we had been, you know, we had been hitting and missing. And you know how you kind of talk around and try to get away as quickly as possible when you're picking up or dropping off? Because things are okay, but you know if you stay too long, it's a powder keg. Right? And so you're walking on eggshells around each other. And me and her had had many, many years of a successful relationship until I destroyed it. You know, but we walked around each other. And the floodgates opened. And the floodgates opened. And she shared some stuff with me. Some things I found helpful and useful in working with people since then. She said to me, you know, it feels to me I'm happy for you, but it feels to me as if I got all of the bad parts of the relationship and somebody else is going to reap the benefits. I don't want you back, but it just feels like I took all the dirt and somebody else gets to get the benefits of it. And I don't want you to hurt, but I want you. But it feels like to me you're getting away scot-free. You know, it feels like to me you're getting away scot-free. You know, and she said, and I feel bad for feeling that, but that's how I feel. And you don't know what it feels like to lay in the bed at night and wait on a phone call. You don't know what it feels like to just know when you get a knock on the door late at night that there's somebody coming to tell me where they found you. And she started sharing things with me. And she had an open forum. She had a forum that I opened up for. And I just listened. She shared some stuff with me that weren't, wasn't even true. I don't even know where it came from. I just took it. I don't correct. I don't change it. It was some stuff that she probably missed that I missed. Man, I had a long history with her. And I don't change it. I just listen to her. Oh, no. That, that, that, that, no. That's me. I want to point out the one thing you got wrong. I just listen. I listen. And I said, I don't, I can't tell you. I can't put a monetary figure on how much money I cost you in that relationship. But I can tell you this. And my daughter was in private school then. And I was working temporary jobs. I didn't get a job for 18 months. And I said, I'll pay. At this point, I will pay half of her tuition. And as soon as I'm able to do better, I'll do better. You know, and then about three months, she was not able to pay her half of the tuition. And she asked me if I would. And I started paying. I paid that month. And from that month on, I continued to pay it. The next year, I bought her school clothes and continued to pay all the tuitions. In two years, my wife moved up to Sacramento. My ex-wife moved to Sacramento. I used to have my daughter in the summers. And my ex-wife would have her during school. She, we didn't want to change school. I started having her during school. And my ex-wife started having her during the summer. And I ended up raising that girl. And she's now, you know, and that's how that amends. You know, the other aspect of an amends, is there anything you need to say to me to make it right? And then the ongoing part of an amends of that nature is the living amends. You won't have to worry about this happening to you again. Although we're not married, you definitely don't have to worry about the aspects of a husband again. The mental torture, the emotional torture, the emotional blackmail, and the letting you down, you won't have to worry about that from me again. You know, and if I tell you I'll do something, I will. And I'll be a participating parent with our daughter. You know, and you'll be able to count on me in your life. And that's the, and that's that aspect of that amends. You know, and it was powerful for me. And one of the things it let me know is if you have a problem, the residue of step four is in step nine. Some people always say to me, I still have this lingering resentment. And I can't. I can't let it go. And if I still have one, I'll probably sweep the last pieces away. I probably owe that person an amends, even if I think they don't. A resentment, it seems like, wait a minute, resentment means I was mad at them. How do I end up owing them amends? Well, when we went to that fourth column, we did a lot of talking about that. And found out most of the time, most of those people ended up on my amends list. Some of them did. Most of them did. Many of them did. What about creditors? Well, we talked about that. Arranging the best deal we can. We must lose our fear of creditors. And that's one of the things it talks about. And when I look at this, it may not sound like it to you, but the reason I like the steps, they're integrated. They're an integrated way of life. And one will feed and take care of the other. Bob just talked about six and seven. And part of the activity is seven. See, self can't overcome self. And when you have, we might have some people who work in the car industry. And when a car is defective, they have recalls, right? Well, not all of them. A lot of products, they have recalls. And when you have a recall, it goes back to the factory and to the manufacturer. You never saw a car work on itself. You never saw a car work on itself. When a car is defective, it goes back to the manufacturer. Same with me. Same with me. It's best to send the defect back to the manufacturer. And so I turned it over to that power. And then some stuff starts happening when I continue the activity at other stations. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to do the steps. Because when I start doing amends, when I start doing amends, the activity of the amends counteracts so many of my defects of character. And I'll come out the other side without, God will change me without my permission, but he does need my cooperation. And a lot of times he operates anonymously and I don't know what it is that he's doing. I don't know. It's kind of like Mr. Miyagi, wax on, wax off. I don't know that when I'm doing the ninth step, I'm doing the activity of six and seven. I don't know that's what I'm doing. Because I'm a lazy guy. But when I undertake these amends, I'm practicing perseverance. I'm practicing humility. I'm practicing persistence. I'm practicing forgiveness. I'm practicing responsibility. I'm practicing some integrity. Almost all of these counteract what it is that I'm doing. They counteract these defects and I'm becoming something else. God won't leave a vacuum. He won't leave a vacuum. Bob said that before. So he's not, if I got a problem with life, well, if I do amends and tell you when I give you my words, you can count on it. That activity right there is the vacuum filler. God, if I got a problem with lying, he's not going to remove my tongue. Thank you, God. What he's going to do is give me the opportunity to tell the truth and risk looking bad or keep on lying and think I'm going to get something out of it. And I get to replace it. I get to replace it. I get to replace it with his opposite. The activity of the ninth step, the action of the ninth step, the action of it, you know, right there. So these steps are integrated. If I do the action of the ninth step, I'll come out of that a new person. So many of my defects are going to be addressed. And just doing the action and making amends to folks. Making amends to people does. One of the things Bob has talked about more and more and more this weekend is judgments, judgments, judgments, judgments, my judgments. Do a ninth step. Do a ninth step. Impossible to do one of those the right way and not suspend all my judgments. I got to sit there and I got to listen. And I got to come out the other end a new person. Operating with some new sets of motives. Operating with some new attitude. So that ninth step, you know, that ninth step, powerful step, you know, and it goes hand in hand with six and seven. I didn't used to look at it like that but the more I started looking at the action and the activity of that ninth, I started realizing some of the side benefits of it. And I started realizing how closely affiliated. How closely affiliated it is with six and seven. You know, so just get busy with that. You know, perhaps I've committed a criminal offense which might land us in jail if it were known to the authorities. I got to sponsor you right now. Wrestling. Wrestling. Wrestling. I read to him from the book and I give him my support. And it's a big decision for him. It's a worn out and he's in California. But he's tired. Of not being able to go visit his kids. He's fairly young in recovery. And I share with him what's in here. You know, we may lose our position or reputation or face jail. But we are willing. We have to be. We must not shrink in anything. And my sponsorship, and I might be wrong, I take you to the water and I take you to the source and I take you to what I really believe. But what I really take you to is my experience. And I don't have the experience of walking in and looking at the judge and saying, I'm willing for you to take me. But I do have the experience of this. I do have the experience of trusting God with all it is that I have. And that's why I open up and I share what I have. I share about being broke. I share about going broke at 22 years sober. I share about getting divorced from 20 years and 22 years sober. I share about losing my house three or four months ago at 22 years sober. I share about losing everything materially that it feels like makes me who I am. And I share about walking with substance. And I share about walking with a job. I share about walking with a sense of purpose. And I share about walking with a youth feeling useful. I share about that. I share about not missing a meal. And I share about not staying outside. And I share about the things that I've gotten in this fellowship and in this program that show me without a shadow of a doubt, it doesn't matter what's in front of me, there's a power behind me. I share about it. I share about that. That's why we share the good, the bad, and the ugly. Because somebody in here, Bob already said it, that's the good news. That's the good news. There's a plan and there's a purpose for everybody sitting in here. And I don't have to feel like I'm qualified already. You know, there's a minister and he says it. And I'm not a minister quoting God, but I just loved it so much because it fits. People think I'm not ready to sponsor. People think I'm not ready to do this work. People think I'm not ready to start working with people. And I heard this minister say, God don't call the qualified, he qualifies the call. That's the good news. That's the good news. That's the good news. And that just fits Alcoholics Anonymous. Ain't none of us in here qualified to sponsor? I'm a drunk. What the hell am I qualified for you to put your life in my hands? What is that about? You know, if you heard this guy's story, he slept under a bridge and got the nerve to be sitting in here not waxing philosophical and people, and I trust him with my life. Where does that come from? How do I get to hear from there? I don't know. I don't know. And the good news, if you come from that place of uselessness, worthlessness, hopelessness, and having nothing and nothingness, if you feel like, what do I have to do to qualify? You already did. Tear your life up. Just tear your life. Oh, I can do that. Keep making mistakes. Oh, I can do that. Keep having problems. Oh, I can do that. What? That's all it takes. Every single one of us is qualified. And that's how... In Alcoholics Anonymous, that's how you expand your resume. You don't expand your resume by the service positions you get and the more stuff that you acquire. No. I just expanded my resume. Oops. Got home... Lost a house. Got that one now I get to share with somebody who's going to come along and lose a house. Oops. Broke and recovered. Got that one to share. Oops. Coming back and recovering. See, because that's the valley side. That's the valley side. That's the valley side. But see, when you do that part of the resume, there's some people in here that know, oh, he getting ready to have something else to put with the resume. He getting ready to have something else to put with the resume. He getting ready to have something else. See, I'm already opening my arms. God has never... He hasn't dropped his boy yet. He didn't save me from that cesspool to let me drown in the bathtub. Every time I've taken what feels like a step backwards, every time I've felt like what feels like a step backwards. God, you know, me, I don't know, what sounds like no to me, I just wait on it to play out all the way. And I find out that wasn't the real answer. He is either telling me yes, not now, I got something better for you. Feel like knowing the moment. I'm waiting for my something better. I'm just waiting for my something better. So this activity of the ninth, you know. And so it talks about that. I'm just waiting for my something better. I'm just waiting for my something better. And at this point in time you may or may not be aware that when you're in the zestable state where it's undergoesой République... Tina youtubers anywhere? Tina youtubers anywhere? You say you're not just at another place. You have a family, you know. You're into work or whatever, you have your job, you're an entrepreneur you know from czegoquera. You make your home. You go to your culture and you all due fredemy hat on. You're huge but you pay $60 to be rich or pumped up, but basic things you got two things to keep shooting. Without bakayım it's a pretty good idea. Chelsea Clibber. the situation. Some of you guys are laughing a little bit too much. You knew her too? Marty, at least she seemed like she was. New friends. If you're sitting up here like, why did they bring these clowns in here? If you are not laughing in the program Alcoholics Anonymous, you're not taking the program serious enough. We have done enough crying. We have a lot of fun up in here. Whatever the situation, we have to do something about it. If we are sure our wife does not know, should we tell her? Not always, we think. If she knows in a general way that we have been wild, should we tell her in detail? We should admit our fault. She or he may insist on the detail. Who is he? Is it my brother? Or was it that guy next door? Or was it the mailman? I don't have the right to say my own skin is somebody else's expense. That's when we talk about except when the do so would injure them or others. That's not important. Bob is... I was wondering if she armed. The guard in mind says, no. I just want to know. It's something in there for everybody. I'm going to turn this over to Bob. On the bottom of 82, the alcoholic is like a tornado roaring his way through the lives of others. Hearts are broken. Sweet relationships are dead. Affections have been uprooted. Selfish and inconsiderate habits have kept the home in turmoil. We feel a man is unthinking when he says that sobriety is enough. Remember when we put flesh on the tornado when we read Bill's story? Remember when Bill roared his way through the door? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. He was on the way through his in-laws' house. They lost the house. One of them died. Wife and the other in-law got sick. Tornado. And more than looking at Bill's story, remember y'all? Remember y'all? Some of you have to look at the babies that, mom, don't go. You have to go again. Remember y'all? Remember y'all? Some of you have to look at the babies that... Don't go. You have to go again. You have to go again. See, I'm one of the ones that remember. I was a tornado. Bank account, empty. Guys coming to the house, threatening. Six of us, me and my brother, six of us living in my mother's house. Demner gave her a nervous breakdown. If she didn't own her house free and clear, she would have been like Bill's story. Would have lost it. Understand this one. Long period of reconstruction ahead. You know, Bob. I'm Bob Nelkoholic. How about if we push on for about ten minutes and then quit for the evening? Yeah, let's finish now. Rather than take a break, we'll just do about ten more minutes. I think it's very, I've been very fortunate to have good sponsorship ever since I got sober. My first sponsor was not real big on the, he didn't understand a lot about the fourth step, but he intuitively knew about amends. And he was very big on amends. I've always been in the hands of people that believed that you put yourself aside. That believed in the rule on page 74, is that the rule is we're to be hard on ourselves, but always considerate of others. I've been taught in Alcoholics Anonymous in making amends, you never ruin it with an explanation or an excuse. You never talk about what they did. You stick to your own side of the street. There's amends at its very best as an action of other centeredness. There's a line in working with others that also I believe applies to amends. It says we put ourselves in the place of the other person and approach them the way we would like to be approached if the tables were turned. Are you awake, hopefully awake enough by this time, or if you're not, at least maybe your sponsor is, to see how to do it? To see how to approach, to see what it must have been like to be on the receiving end of what you're making amends for. And when you really get that, the words and actions become self-evident, because essentially they're what could be done for you if you'd been hurt like that. There's a commonality here. I think that this is really where two things happen in the amends. One is this is really where I clear away. The things that have rendered me an unworthy receiver of God's grace and gifts. I've known men and women and alcoholics on sober a lot of years that have had tremendous opportunities for abundance and all kinds of success. And no matter what they've accomplished, it pales and they never enjoy it. Or if the or they'll be the kind of person that acquires a lot of stuff and then somehow sabotages it unconsciously. And I think that's the thing that's really important. Because I think that there's a, I think within me, if I've heard a lot of people and I've never made it right, I can't, I know that somewhere inside of me. It's pretty hard to feel good about your new home when you bought it at money that you really owe your parents. Right? Or you owe somebody else. What do you do? Invite them over to dinner so they'll appreciate the nice home you bought on the money you owed them? I mean. I mean, how do you justify that? How do you feel good about that? Right? And I've had people that push me into amends. And when I was new, I was overwhelmed with the idea of amends. It just scared me. I lived on the streets for a lot of years like an animal. I robbed and ripped off a lot of people. I mean, not big scale stuff. I was never, there was a time I fancied myself a gangster until the police explained I was a public nuisance. You know, as a civil rights defender, write small потерms the next day about being a police officer, someone who allows people to lead you off your subscribe journey. Because you never know what the police are going to do. And before they do that, you have to say, If these are the things that got my community back, why not tank the police becomes a party? That's what I noticed with my friends. I said, I don't want to. I don't know. I can do whatever I want, �m," Like a appreciate home. So. That's whatfu? overwhelmed at the prospect. I remember thinking to myself, oh my God, if I'd have known I had to pay all this stuff back one day, I don't think I'd have ever done most of that stuff. It was overwhelming. My sponsor used to say, a way will be shown. He said that a lot. Keep coming back and a way will be shown. I had a lot of problems with my parents. My parents loved me. I had good parents. They were not alcoholics. My family seems to skip every other generation. My parents, they pulled every political connection they could to get me in with the finest psychiatrists and the best treatment centers to keep me from going to prison on a couple occasions. They spent fortune on me. And no matter, I'll tell you something, no matter how much someone loves you, you can eventually beat that out of them after a while. And by the time I got sober, my parents hadn't had anything to do with me in quite a while. They would not take my phone calls. I was not welcome in their house. They were able to cut me out of their life, but you know something, they could never cut me out of their heart. So my father slept 15 hours a day and my mother saw a therapist and took medication. And I did that. And I knew it. I had stolen so much stuff from my dad that he became friends with the guy who owned the pawn shop in the town he lived in from buying his own crap back. And when he became friends with the guy, the guy wouldn't take my stuff anymore. I had embarrassed them. They lived alone pretty much, just the two of them. They had very few friends because I had such a bad reputation. My poor little sister, who I was a hero growing up, she used to get embarrassed going to school because the other kids would bring the newspaper articles about my arrest for possession of drugs and different things to school and show all the kids and she'd be mortified. How do you make amends like that? And people in AA and the money, I owed my father a fortune. People in AA said you just have to start making amends. I wanted to explain it to them that listen, it's too late. I'll never make that right. It's too late. And I am delighted that people in Alcoholics Anonymous never gave a lot of credence to my opinions. They just said, well, that's fine. You feel like, just do this anyway. In the first direction they gave me, they told me to call my mother every week and don't call collect. Now, that would have never occurred to me. I remember the first, I think I had some sort of bizarre sense of entitlement. You always called collect because I have nothing and they have something and they owe me or something, right? I remember the first time I called my mother and I paid for the call. She answered the phone. She's not, when she heard my voice, she was not happy. What do you want? Then she goes, where are you? You're not, you're not in Pennsylvania again. I said, no mom, I'm in Nevada. You're in Nevada. Well, the operator didn't ask me to pay for the call. I said, no mom, I paid for the call. Her voice jumped the whole octave. She went, you paid for the call. She couldn't believe it. It was like, like somebody did her with a cow prodder. You paid for the call. She couldn't believe it. They told me to start sending her little notes and call her every week. Never to forget a mother's day, a father's day, a birthday, an anniversary Christmas. And I wasn't making much money, but I'd get them with some little thing and send it off. And a year went by, and they don't, they're not accepting me back into the fold. I'm telling you that at a year sober, a year of calling them every week and sending them cards and all kinds of stuff. They still have this attitude that I'm probably phony and condom because I had done one of the worst things I did to my parents is I would get back. I would seemingly get back on my feet, get straightened out. I'd get their hopes up and then trash them one more time. And that is a brutal emotional beating. To someone who loves you to get their hopes up and squash them and get them up and squash them makes you crazy. So they were, I was a year sober and my parents decided they were going to fly out to Nevada and eyeball me because they didn't, they were skipped. They didn't think, and they came out to Nevada with this attitude, you know, he's probably a bum, but we've never been to Las Vegas. So it won't be a complete loss. So honestly, God, it's other attitude of coming out. And I met him at the plane and I took him out to dinner with my sponsor and his wife and I took them to my home group and they got to see me with you. And what I was my sponsor's idea to take him to my home. I would have never thought to take him. Felt weird to me to take him, but they saw me with you and they could have never seen me better than when I'm with you. In my first home group, we had a tremendous amount of camaraderie there. We had a whole bunch of old timers that would always pick on the newer guys. They would laugh at our expense and goof on us all the time. And then they saw me with the guys I was ran, I was running, run with a bunch of guys who were all sober about the same time. And we would take the meetings into the care unit and to the reality house. And we'd go out to the, the jail and the state prison. We did all that together. We ran in a pack and they saw me with the guys that I ran with. And then they saw me with a couple of the newer guys I was trying to help and how I was picking on them and goofing on them because AA functions on the first rule, plumbing, crap runs downhill. And they saw the camaraderie and my parents, they wanted to go every night to a meeting with me. They really, they didn't understand AA, but they liked it. They thought that the people were funny and very heartfelt and genuine. I remember one time watching my mother across the room. Some, somebody's talking about finally getting their kids back. And my mom was, she started crying. She grabbed my dad's hand and said, this is wonderful. This is wonderful. The day before they left to go back to Pennsylvania, they were staying at the Stardust and I met them for lunch at the coffee shop. And as instructed, I had my sheet of paper with all the money I owed my father. It was a lot of money. And I'm, I'm making like a minimum wage, you know, I'm making very, very little money. And I had a, a game plan of making payments to them. I was told that I, that I don't, you don't wait till you hit the lottery to pay this stuff back. You start making money. And I had a, I had a game plan of making payments to them. I was told that I, that I, you don't wait till you hit the lottery to pay this stuff back. You start making money. And I had a game plan of making payments to them. I was told that I, that I, you don't wait till you hit the lottery to pay this stuff back. You start making money. And I had a game plan of making payments to them. I was told that I, that I, you don't wait till you hit the lottery to pay this stuff back. You nickel and a dime at a time, and you buy it back a nickel and a dime at a time. And I had my plan. It was 12 1⁄2 years of payments to my father to make this right, 12 1⁄2 years is a long time. But I was willing to do it. And I sat down and I explained to him what I did. I told him the amount. I told him everything I figured. My dad said it's probably right. I said, I want to start making these payments. And he said to me, he said, Rob, we don't want you to pay back the money. He said, this is the first time in years we had any hope that you were going to be all right. We don't understand the AA, but we just want you to keep going. You're doing really well. Just stay sober and forget about the debt. Well, man, I've just hit the recovery lottery, man. I just got out of 12 1⁄2 years of payments. I'm thinking, I like this amends stuff, man. I thought this is cool. I left the coffee shop. I'm on my way over to my sponsor's office. I'm on my way to my sponsor's office to tell him the good news, thinking about other people I owe money to. I wonder if I get them to see the light like my parents. I get to my sponsor's office and I tell him, I'm excited. I'm on cloud nine. This is great. I tell him the good news. And he looks at me and he says, it doesn't matter what your father said. It's your debt. It's your integrity. It's your recovery. It's your spirit. You have to make it right. I tell you, sometimes you just know you got the wrong sponsor. And I said, what am I going to do if I send him this little check every month? He doesn't really, he's well off. He's fine. He doesn't need the money. He won't cash it. And he had this, he always said this. He says, I don't know, but a way will be shown. Yeah, right. Well, I worked as a cashier in a store. My dad had one hobby. He collected silver coins, gold certificates, silver certificates, wheat pennies, war nickels. He was into it. He had bags and boxes of that stuff in books. And he'd sit for hours and catalog it all, put it in the little groups and puts it in books and stuff. He was really into it. It was like almost an obsession with him. He'd just sit for hours with that stuff. And I'm working and running a cash register. It's in the late 70s. And there's still a lot of silver coins and silver certificates and even gold certificates in circulation. And every day they're coming through that register. And so I think God works through our sense sometimes. And I had this idea. I thought, well, maybe. Maybe I'll talk to my boss, ask him if I can buy this stuff out of the register. Never, not with any plan to clear the debt. I mean, that'd be too much. That's impossible. But maybe I could buy enough stuff out of the register over a period of time that I could give my dad a nice gift. It'd be a nice gesture. And I talked to my boss. He said, I don't care, kid. I don't collect that stuff. He said, go ahead. And I started doing it. And there's a funny thing that happens with those of us that become willing to go to any lengths. And as you start moving. down the road towards making things right, the universe starts moving the road down towards you. And it's a very serpentinous thing. And I started getting lucky. From the moment I started making that amends and some others, I started getting financially lucky. I started getting raises, bonuses. There was a guy in AA. There was a friend of mine had a moving truck. He used to pay me $100 cash under the table just for a couple hours work helping him move furniture. And I got a management position after a while running a retail store. Started making some pretty significant money. And what would have taken me 12 and a half years, I accumulated the whole debt at face value in gold certificates, silver certificates, bags of silver quarters, halves, dimes in about a little less than five years. And I started doing it. And I was able to take all that stuff back to Pennsylvania. And I had a couple boxes of stuff and give it to my dad. And my dad, I knew he'd take it. I mean, he could no longer give that back than a crack addict could give back an eight ball. And I want you to know something. There was absolutely no doubt that prior to giving him that money that he'd forgiven me. And that he loved me. No doubt. But something changed when I paid him back that money. For the first time in my life, my father started to respect me. He loved me. But I was Bob. You know, Bob, you got to make allowances for Bob. I was Bob on the recovery special bus, Bob. You know what I mean? You know how your parents look at you? Do you ever be around your parents and when they see you, they sigh? They go, right. And my dad started respecting me. And I think somewhere inside myself, I gained a little bigger piece of how I feel about myself started to come back. When I was a little kid, I liked me. I liked life. I ruined that over the years. Well, I couldn't stand me and I couldn't stand life. And I think we mend the separation that we have with ourselves in addition to the separation we have with other people through step 8 and 9 and also through step 12. And helping God's kids. There's a lot of areas where step 9 and step 12 blend together, I'll tell you. Where, you know, there's people in AA that have opinions about you don't make living amends and stuff. Well, I'll tell you something. You hurt somebody and break their heart for a lot of years. The book says there's a long period of reconstruction ahead. And Chamberlain used to stand at the podium and rub his hands together and he'd cackle what that laugh is and say, you rub away the wreckage of your past with good works. You rub it away. And sometimes step 12 and step 9 seem like the same thing. Because it's all altruistic action. It's all making things right. It's all restoring balance in the universe. On page 127, there's a statement of cause and effect. I think it's a promise. And I'll talk about this and then we'll shut her down. And don't misinterpret what it says here. Right smack in the middle of the page. It says, although financial recovery is on the way for many of us, we found we could not place money first. For us, materialism. Material well-being always followed spiritual progress. It never preceded it. I know guys in AA that make seven figures a year that have no material well-being. They live in a state of angst and anxiety over money and the markets and all kinds of stuff. I know guys that make very little amounts of money per year that have tremendous well-being. Why? Why? Because they are one. They're one with the people around them and they're one with God. And there's no anxiety and there's about money with them because they know that they're going to be taken care of. They know God's going to take care of them. I've watched Ralph for the last almost a year go through a lot of setbacks that are tied to the economy and different things. And never once did I ever seen him afraid that he's going to be destitute. He's always known as I've in times of distress in my own sobriety, financial distress and setbacks where I knew that it's going to be okay. I have a sense of material well-being. And it's independent. It has nothing to do. The great illusion is that you make enough money and then you have material well-being. That's not true. Matter of fact, there's alcoholics on a regular basis that blow their own brains out with $10 million. And living in $5 million homes with no material well-being. No well-being whatsoever. Material well-being comes when my spirit is integrated and one with the material world. And to do that is really a process of facing everything I was afraid to face. And I think that's the most important thing. And I think that's the most important thing. You know, I think trust, the mechanism of trust is often like a muscle. If you want to strengthen it, you have to exercise it and use it. And it is in step nine. Step nine is frightening. I mean, I'm paying back people at times. And I got financial insecurity in my early days of sobriety. And I'm paying these back. I whined to my sponsor one time. I just whined to him. I said, you know, I'm paying all this money. These people have more. They're big. Come on. Some of these are big. Companies. They don't need this little bit of money. How come I have to pay all this stuff? I don't have anything left. You know, the big cry of the alcoholic. Yeah, but what about me? What about me? Right? And he said, he got tired of me whining one day. And he said, listen. He said, you know something? They don't want your money. Whew. Good. He said, no, they just want their money back. And then . I think that one of the greatest things we do in Alcoholics Anonymous is face all the people. And I got to tell you something. There's a big difference between making all your amends that's possible and making all of them but one. It's like a stone in your shoe. I have amends that I haven't made. Not because I wouldn't. It's because I can't find the people. And they're always on the horizon for me. I think about those amends and wonder about those people on a regular basis. But I am comfortable in the knowledge that if I could find those people, I would make amends to them. I would not hesitate. Want to close? We will see you. We'll see you in 24 hours and 2 minutes. 12. No, 12. 12. Yeah. 12. The guys that come in 24 hours will know a loneliness such as you do.