The Ego Must Be Broken Before Willingness Begins – Mike L.

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And to some of us it's going to sound like I'm telling you what to do. And if it sounds like that, then that's what it is, you Know. But, you Now, I was separated from alcohol August 17th, 1989, and for that I'm grateful. and I was talking before the meeting with Greg there and, you know, in early sobriety I went to meetings all the time. You know, I went to meetings like three or four times a day. I got sober up in El Toro area. It used to be called El Torro. They call it Lake Forest now because they're sort of hoity-toity. You know they change the name. But it was El Torno and I got sober at this little clubhouse and I would go to the 6am because I couldn't sleep anyways, you So I couldn't wait to get to a 6 AM. Not that I really like, because here's the deal. I go to that 6 AM meeting and everybody, you guys were so happy, you know? And, oh my, they want to hug me and have a cup of coffee and just get away from me, you know? I was not a people person, you know? Especially not at 6 AM and then I'd usually hang out for the 7 30 if I could if I wasn't working that night, that day or wasn't working until later and try to get back to the noon, 5 30 every day. and then usually a later meeting because well because i had nothing going on in my life you know i wouldn't have said that at the time but that's that's the truth you know and um and it was good it wasgood for a period of time you know i got was separated from alcohol i was going to meetings and and i kept hearing this message you know keep coming back it gets better keep coming it gets better and and the only problem was for me it wasn't getting any better you know this this this didn't change much you know and and I'd come to meetings and I and I heard all the all the slogans you know um look for the similarities you know don't look for the differences look forthe similarities but that's not how my mind works you know I grew up looking for the difference is you know in in my family the way I grew was I wanted to I just wanted to be separate. You know, I wanted to be different. Um, I want to be special, you know, and I didn't feel special, you know, um, you know up until probably five years of sobriety, I had this, I had this idea that, um that I was like the black sheep of the family and, and that, uh, you know, most of the family really didn't like me that much and, and, uh and, and then, you know, my brother and my sister were my mom's favorites, you know, until I, until i did like my third inventory and um and really looked at the truth and the truth was she spent a lot more time with me because because i was always in trouble you know so um whether i was the favorite or not she spent a lot of time with being spent a long time on my stuff you know i don't know growing up you know i just i just my thinking was just so wrong and and i can see that today but when i was growing up that was my thinking you know by By the time I got to high school, all I wanted to do was stay wasted. That's all I cared about, staying wasted, you know? And it didn't really matter what I had to do to do it, you Know? I mean, I was pretty... Some people like to call it functional. The book calls an actor, you Now? I was a good actor, You Know? And I knew what to say and who to talk to. And, You Now? I always tried to have some kind of job that would justify my drinking, You Know? And so by the time I got to Alcoholics Anonymous for the second time, it wasn't the first time, I was pretty well spent. But I wouldn't have told you that. I didn't tell you what I really felt like because how I grew up is we don't talk about that kind of stuff. You don't share that stuff with the neighbors. You don' t talk about any of your fears. You're a man. Just buck up. you know and um you don't share any of those uh character defects or the dark hidden secrets with anybody because what happens is if somebody finds out they're going to use it against you you know. And so for a period of time in Alcoholics Anonymous I wasn't sharing none of that stuff. What I would do is I would share at least once a day I would show some drama that was going on in my life you know I was you know i was getting that second divorce that it was taking forever and living with my first ex-wife and trying to force that relationship to work. And, you know, she wasn't treating me right. And,you know, my boss wouldn't give me a raise because, well, he told me flat out. I mean, he was honest. He was honest as can be. You know, it was a job that was given to me in sobriety. And he told him, he goes, you're not going to be here long. These other guys that I'm giving raises to, they're going tobe with me forever because they have nowhere else to go. You know? They're either going to work in a restaurant or they're going to work this whole construction deal that I got going. And you're going be gone, and the truth was I was within a couple months. But at the time, that was like a big drama. And I would share whatever drama was going on in my life, and a little tear would come out because I wanted you to feel for me. But I wouldn't share the heartfelt stuff. In fact, I didn't even want to look at that. And so what happened was after a period of time in sobriety, I was about four months sober. Like I said, going to three or four meetings. I really thought I was doing the whole deal. You know, I had a book and I had a sponsor, and my sponsor's basic message was take your time. And I know that's some sponsor's messages, and I'm not knocking you if that's your message. Well, maybe I am. But for me it was a message of death, you know, because I was getting sicker. The longer I was sober, the sicker I was Getting. Because once again, I was looking at the differences. You guys seemed happy. And I wasn't happy, you I just wasn't a happy camper. You know, I'd come to meetings and I'd see people and they were laughing and they would go to the movies afterwards and it just appeared like everybody was getting sober, you know, more than physically sober. They were getting emotionally sober and they weren't having a good time and it wasn't happening in my life, you know. And what happened is I hit a bottom in sobriety. It was a Wednesday, a noon meeting and I remember going to that meeting and I sat in my customary place right under the clock, you know? I mean, I was like a fixture at this club. I mean, everybody knew me, you know, that's a dangerous time when everybody knows you and they know your name. But, uh, I was sitting under that clock and I couldn't stop crying and I was, I was just weeping, you knowing I'm six foot three. I'm a macho man. I don't cry. Not like that. You know, That's ridiculous. You Know? And, uh and I Couldn't Stop, You Know, And I wasn't sharing. I Mean, I Was Just The Whole Meetings Going On And I'm Just Weeping During This Whole Meeting Because I Knew It Was Done. Life Was Never Going To Get Any Better. My Life Sucked it was not getting better and sobriety was not working you guys were lying to me and i wasn't drinking and and it was tough not drinking you know and i heard this guy this guy share he was sitting right across from me and i might have seen him before i don't know um but i heard him loud and clear you know he had a message that it just hit me right in the heart you know And it wasn't anything that, I might have heard it before. I might've been in a meeting and somebody else shared it before, but it didn't hit me until then. And the message was, I could get better. You know, he shared what it was like for him, what happened, which is probably the most important part, and what it's like today. And the truth is, his life was no great shakes. He had three years of sobriety. He had some crummy car. He had an ugly girlfriend. He had a crummy job, you know. But he was sober three years, you now. And he was comfortable, and I was not comfortable. So after the meeting, my face is still all wet and everything, and everybody's coming out and looking at me and asking for his phone number. I didn't want to ask him to be my sponsor because he might say no. I still had too much ego for that. So I asked him for his number, andI couldn't wait. I waited about 10 minutes until he got home and rushed home and called him up and asked him tobe my sponsor. More than likely, that guy saved my life. um, because I needed exactly what he gave me. You know, he gave me explicit direction on what I needed to do. I would call him every day, you know, every day. He wanted me to do, you know, just a few things. And most of them I was doing, he wanted me go to a meeting every day he wanted me do to pray every day you want me to read the big book you want to meet it to call him and call another alcoholic which is probably the hardest thing for me to because I was not in calling other people you know because I had nothing to say I was like I said, I wasn't a people person. You know, I chose this other buddy of mine that got sober within two weeks of me before. I think he got sober before me two weeks. And so I called him. I go, Mark, how are you doing? He goes, good. I go. Are you going to the meeting? He goes. Yep. I go see you there. That was it, you know, and and that was but that was the start, you know, and and the sponsor wanted me to work on the steps. You know he asked me what step I was on and he didn't give me formal direction the way the way I would work with somebody today, but it was enough every day I would call him and what I wanted to do was talk about her really I wanted a sponsor like I thought my other friends had maybe they did, I wanted a sponsor who was like the dad that I never had that would listen to me that would pat me on the back and tell me how wonderful I was take my side tell me what a good guy I was you're doing good Mike and I never heard that You know, I'd start talking about her, and he'd go, well, did you do this? Did you do that? Yep. What step are you on? And I'd think, you know, you're my sponsor. You know what step I'm on. You know? Every day he'd ask me this. And he'd be like, okay, see you later. Click. And that was it, you now. And I think, this sucks, you kno. It just didn't appear like I had the relationship that I wanted. But the truth is, that's exactly what I needed, you kno. I needed somebody that was no BS, I needed somebody that just didn't candy coat it for me. He told me if I wanted to get better I was going to have to work the steps and that's what I needed to hear because the truth is where we got sober probably within a six month period there was a few hundred people that came through that club and some of them maybe some of whom are still sober that I don't know of but I know of myself, my wife and maybe like three other people that are still over and it hasn't been that long i mean 15 years that's that's really not a long period of time um i mean it is it is and it isn't you know but uh you know i look at the recovery rate in in the early days alcoholics anonymous and i don't have to guess and i Don't have to take anybody's word for it they wrote it all down for us in these history books you know a comes of age i think i saw over there and and dr bob and the good old timers and bill w passed it on they wrote all this stuff down for us and let us know exactly what it used to be like and what they had to do the book tells me specifically why they wrote the book you know to tell me exactly how to recover from alcoholism and you know i thank god that i that i got a hold of that sponsor um because what happened is i got better you know slowly slowly and uh i met my wife here um you know i had six months of sobriety right about six months or sobriete and going all those meetings you know um probably like i was telling greg pretty hiding out in aa but i didn't know any better you know and i didn'y have nothing else going on so i'm going to all these meetings and i'm not looking for anybody you know but um but it just happened you know and so so i never tell anybody you know that don't date a newcomer or or don't get in a relationship for the first year um because i didn'd do it so i wouldn't i wouldn' give anybody direction to do anything i didn''t do um but but it took a lot of work you You know, we met and, you know, within a short period of time. Here's the truth. We met, we went on a date, and I asked her to go to a meeting. That was our first date, you Know. And it was this little meeting out in Coto de Casa. And I, because in my mind I figured, you Now, if she said yes that she'd go, maybe she just wanted to go To the meeting, you Knew. And if she Said no, maybe she Just didn't want to go To the Meeting. So I was safe, you Know, emotionally. I was Safe either way, youKnow. and um and she said yes and we went to this meeting and and i took her out afterwards this high class place you guys know carl's jr and um spent 45 cents on a cup of coffee for her and and I told her my whole life story pretty much you know I mean all the dirty all the stuff I mean not everything but I mean and I don't know what I was trying to do because you know that was ridiculous you know i mean here's a beautiful woman and I'm telling her all this stuff to push her away um and i told her alcoholics anonymous was my life you know and if you want to see me you're going to have to go to a lot of meetings and um and she kept coming around you know and uh you know we've been married for a long time now and it's a pretty good life it's pretty good life but it but it took a lot work you know um you know i look i i go to a lot still you know I probably go to 10 meetings a week um which to some is a lot to some it's not But for me, it's what's working. And I work with a lot of new guys. And I see in their eyes the pain that I used to see in the mirror, you know. And I won't feel like that again. The truth is I haven't had to. But I've had to go through a lot OF tough times. When I was about four years sober, four and a half years sober I hit another bottom. And I'm sure it's never going to happen to you. It's what happened to me though, you Know. I was going to meetings. I was probably going to 20 meetings a week at that time, you know? I was a service all over the place. I sponsored a bunch of guys. I was Orange County Service Board. I was H&I. I was Mr. A.A., you know. I'd been chairman of the club a couple times by then. And all of a sudden I'm sitting in meetings and, you Know, the book talks about restlessness, irritable, and discontent. That's really what was happening, you Now. I'm tired of the newcomers getting all the attention. newcomers get all the attention you know people go up and hug them and they get all the attention and I'm tired of hearing them talk and I am tired of hearing all the knuckleheads talk that I've known for years I've heard their story I'm sick of it you know and I'am tired of hearing myself you know but by then my ego is wrapped up in sobriety and what am I going to do so I figured I'm just going to keep going to media I really don't have a choice you know I got a sponsor that's a good sponsor you know truth is it had been a number of years since I'd done any real step work you know i was trying to carry a message that really i didn't have in my life anymore dr chiba wrote about it years ago that our ego rebuilds itself and and that's exactly what happened you know I was living on this this idea that what I did in the past was good enough to keep me sober that what you know in my mind and it didn't sound like this but in retrospect I can see it's all about Mike Mike goes to meetings Mike sponsors guys Mike's service. Mike, Mike, Mike, a bunch of BS. I thank God that I had a buddy come back from Texas. He had gone to this conference and these other AA knuckleheads put on this conference. He gave me this set of tapes and I listened to these tapes. I was just in the right place at the right time. I start going down the road and I start crying. I hear these guys carrying this message to me through the tape. They talked about this concept of relief first freedom you know that most of us them included they had hit those bottoms most of us settle for relief you know we get here we do a few things we get some relief it feels better you know. We're not drinking now you know if I see a cop in the rearview mirror so what you know I got insurance now you Know the wife she let me back in the big bed I got the job now stuff stuff's doing okay you know and um but that's a far cry from the freedom that's really offered you know in that uh in their opinion and what seems to be true what the book talks about that it's only through this continual surrender it's Only Through working the steps over and over again that I get to the place where where I'm really connected with this higher power that solves my problems and that I can feel comfortable you know. So I got to the place where I was willing to do the deal again. And the truth is, I was surrounded by people who were telling me, you don't need to do that. You're a service. You've done this stuff before. You've got a sponsor. You sponsor guys. You don't needs to do this. You certainly don't needed to ride another four-step. In fact, there was an old-timer who's gone now, and I still love him to death, and I loved him then. And his message was if he had to do another four step, we'd probably kill him. And maybe it would have. I don't know. I know for me, I had to go through that. I had no reason to do it. I had nothing to do with another four steps. I had to do another fifth step I had the whole process again and see some truths that I didn't want to see some stuff that I still buried even the first time doing the steps and get to the place that I really sought out this power greater than myself you know the conception that I have today is different than it was back then but it doesn't really matter the book talks about that god you know that god doesn't make too hard of terms with those who earnestly seek and uh and so that's what i did you know i started doing um for me was uh opening my mind a little bit you know and and and asking this higher power to come into my life and and looking at my stuff and doing the steps again and and things got better slowly it's it's always slowly you know it's never bad see alcohol does everything for me at certain time it did everything for me that a does today like god you know i take a drink and that restless irritable discontent feeling goes away problem is i can't i'll stop at one drink you know just drink and drink and drink and create wreckage then i you know come to and you know have this wreckage and i need to try make amends for well it's not really men's apologies and um and then i go on another bender and it goes over and over the doctor's opinion talks about that and uh and that was my life before but today i do these certain actions and it takes longer to get to that place of ease and comfort but it lasts you know and i don't have any wreckage where i have to make amends for um you know my life's been continual maybe i've been blessed i don'T KNOW i know i know I got friends that just DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS WHAT I DO THEY JUST DON'T YOU KNOW AND THEY APPEAR TO BE COMFORTABLE YOU KNOW AND THERE'S THEY'RE GOING TO MEETINGS ONE OR TWO meetings a week i got a good friend of mine that goes to one meeting a week and um and he's worked the steps a couple times but he goes to 1 million a week he sponsors one guy and uh and he seems to be fine you know um i know for me i just couldn't do that you know i had to it's just like my life before i had this thing full on you know and and i've been placed in positions over and over my my egos place me you know in positions over and over again where uh where i had to surrender you know we talked about self-imposed crises here in this book you know and as i look back i never think it's a self-improsed crisis until i get on the other side i always think it you guys you know she did something they did something somebody said something it's always you it's never me you know till i get out on the side and i see it was me all along and and so i've been placed in these positions where I just had to surrender. You know, we were married for a few years and we had a couple kids. And once again, you know, I thought I was doing everything and it's not that I've been blindsided by stuff. That's what I thought at the time, you know? That I'm blindsided with stuff. But some stuff came up in our marriage. I thought everything was great. If you would have asked me, I said, it's fine. Our relationship was fine there's nothing wrong here i'm going to 15 to 20 meetings a week you know she's going to a couple meetings a weak you know and raising the kids and by that time I got a real job you know which I didn't have for for you know a number of years and in in some some issues came up in in our relationship that that I was forced to look at you know I didn t want to look it down you And she's telling me stuff like, you know, all her girlfriends and this is the best thing. I forget the verbiage they were using. This is going to be the best things for you. Your relationship is going be stronger. It didn't feel like it at the time. You know, what it felt like was we were going to split up. That's what it fell like. And once again, if I would have listened to most of the people in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous, we probably would have split up, you now. Because there was people surrounding me telling me, she's wrong and blah-dee-blah-deed-bloddy. And you deserve better and look at everything you do and all that. And I know, because she told me, she was surrounded by people telling her exactly the same thing. You're right, he's wrong, all this. But we didn't. And once again, I had to hit the place of surrender where I was willing to look at my part. and everything that we've been through i can honestly say everything we've been through has been a blessing and we've been through numerous things you know my daughter is uh 23 now and um for my for my first marriage and you know when we first when we First got together and then we got married i had this sponsor you know the latex hall great man who continued to tell me mike this daughter is going to want to come live with you And I thought, oh man, you're crazy. I wouldn't tell him that, but that's what I thought. You're crazy, she's living with her mom, her mom lets her do whatever she wants to do. We don't have any money or anything, what does she want to come live with us for? But he told me that if you continue to put these principles in your life, you continue to be consistent in your Life, that's going to be attractive to her. And it was. A few years later, she came and asked to live with this. and that was a struggle for both of us and I know it was a struggle on the relationship with his daughter who continued to try to get us to choose sides and try to separate us you know, I was talking with one of my relatives that's actually here tonight and we were talking about life and I said, life's always tough you know Sobriety's been tough. Sobrietty's been real tough. But it's been real good, too. It's been really good. We've got two boys, 13 and 11, that have never seen either one of us drink. Instead of this black sheep that I used to think I was, my mom, one of the reasons I moved back to San Diego, because my mom's down here, and I'm able to be there for her and to listen and and to do things with her. She went with us last year on vacation, and she's going with us again in about three weeks or four weeks up to Canada on vacation. You know, sobriety has given me this. I was not the kind of guy. In fact, in my world, I was never going to get married again. I mean, there's no doubt because that's the way I always was. I was getting married, but I was ever going to own a home because I didn't want the responsibility. I was Never going to pay my taxes when they were supposed to be paid or anything. I mean, I was always living on the edge, you know, and even in early sobriety, I just wanted nothing to do with being a regular Joe. But when I was about two years sober, I don't know, I Was sober a little while. We had already been together, but I don' t think we were married yet. I actually voted for the first time. See, that might not be a big thing to you, but to me that was a big things. In fact, I gave the gal my voter, you know, the ballot and everything, and I'm crying, and she wanted to know what was wrong. And she just didn't understand, you Know. I'd never been a part of society before. I didn't want to be a part Of society. I mean, I had regular jobs and stuff, but in my mind, I was not a part OF you guys. I was different. I was separate, you Now. And I never wanted To be a Part of you. And Alcoholics Anonymous has given me The opportunity to become A part Of rather than apart From. Um, you know, if you're new or relatively new and, and say, I could, I can tell you all about all these drunk-a-logs and all these things from, from early, from earlier on, from the, from the age of three when I, when I climbed up the kitchen counter and got the big thing of cough syrup that had alcohol and codeine and chugged half of it and made my brother take a sip of it. And they rushed us to the hospital and got our stomachs pumped or, you Know, the time when I was nine years old and, and went down to the, I don't know if it was Circle K or 7-Eleven or whatever it was and got some knucklehead that was over 21 to buy us a six-pack of beer. It's amazing to me, but he did. I gave him five bucks, he gave me a six pack, and he kept the change, so he was happy, I guess. I mean, I can just go on all these drunk-a-log stories and tell you all this stuff, this wreckage that happened, the marriages and stuff, but if that didn't happen to you, you're not going to identify with that. Because it really doesn't matter what I did to get here. The truth is, I got here and I didn't even want to be here. I got hier, like I said, on August 17th, 89, and I came in on a fluke. I'd been to Alcoholics Anonymous before and I was living with a relative and there was some stuff going on in the house there. I had my first ex-wife and my daughter and myself living in this relative's house and he was going on these benders and disappearing and so I'm stuck there with his kids and his wife and my first ex-wife. You know, it was just a nightmare. And I'm trying to hide my drinking. I was probably only drinking maybe a 12-pack a day which that's nothing. You know what I mean? A 12- pack a day is nothing but I don't know why I had to hide it but I always had to sneak out and put bottles in different places. But the truth is I was getting pissed because he wasn't taking me with him on those benders you know and a phone call came one morning it was him and he needed a ride because he couldn't drive and and um and his wife told me go pick him up and don't come back don't bring him back you know. And and something told me when I got there you know that I better call her and tell her you know well I'll take him to Alcoholics Anonymous. That's the only thing I can think of I'll make him to alcoholics anonymous. Well the truth is I was trying to protect myself probably too because I didn't you know if he got kicked out of the house where was I going to go? You I'm living in that house, too. She probably doesn't want me around. And so we went to Alcoholics Anonymous that night. And I remember that meeting. We lived in this private community up there, Coto da Casa, and there was a little meeting at the clubhouse there. And we went in, and it was probably about this size. There was like 15 or 20 people there. And I hadn't been around AA for three and a half years. I'd been drinking and doing other stuff and creating more wreckage for three-and-a-half years. I'd gotten married and divorced again, and all this stuff. And I show up in this meeting, and you're so happy to see me. And I totally forgot what it was like. I had forgot that when AAs look at you and they ask you how you're doing, they really want to know. How are you doing? And when they laugh, most of the time they're really laughing. It's not some phony... You know, I was in sales. I mean, I used to have the phony laugh, and everything was phony to me. But here, these people were so real they almost glowed. I mean it was like a surreal experience to me, you know, and it was scary. It was really scary, but it was attractive too, and I knew this is probably what I should be doing. I'm missing out on something here. And so that's when I started doing what I told you I was doing, I'm going to all these meetings, and, you know, I've had to hit every bottom. You know, for me, I think my perception is I think God puts me in that continual place, my ego grows, and then I just get sort of like slapped upside the head because I get too uppity, you Know, and I think I'm doing it myself. And that's not what we're supposed to be doing. I don't believe that's what the book tells me. In fact, I hear a lot of stuff in meetings. Like I said, I go to a lot of meetings still and I hear a lot of stuff that just doesn't coincide with the program that I read in the book and the programthat I have to work. I was in a meeting today and it was a step meeting and they were talking about the eight step and like I said earlier, if you think I'm talking to you, maybe I am, maybe I'm not, but there's all kinds of opinions thrown out about the eighth step and this guy I love, he's got like 33 years, he was asked to share and it's a podium of participation. And his basic message was that his suggestion would be put yourself on the top of the list, you know, on that eighth step and that you need to make amends to yourself first and you hurt yourself more than you hurt anybody else and it just doesn't coincide with what I read in the book, you Know. It talks about Mike's problem, selfishness and self-centeredness. That we think is the root of the problem. and it says that I must be rid of this I must or it kills me and it gives me specific directions on how to do this and to get rid of the selfishness for a period of time and I think it's a selfless program, it's not a selfish program I just have to think of things a certain way because I know I think where my passion comes from more than anything is I don't want to die drunk I just don't, you know I don't want to die drunk. I don'T WANT TO PUT MY WIFE THROUGH HAVING A HUSBAND GOING OUT AND DRINKING. I DON'T WANTS MY KIDS TO SEE ME THAT WAY. I DONT WANTTO CREATE THAT REFUGE. I DONOT WANT MY MOM CRYING ANYMORE ABOUT WHERE IS MIKE AND HOW COME HE HASN'T CALLED. WE WERE TALKING BEFORE THE MEETING. THERE WAS A TIME WHEN I WAS IN THE AIR FORCE, I DIDN'T CALL HER FOR LIKE THREE MONTHS. NOW, THERE WAS NOTHING GOING ON IN MY LIFE. I WAS BUSY. I WAS DRINKIN' EVERY DAY. AND I'M WORKIN' AND I'm DRINKin'. I'm working and I'm drinking, and I didn't have any thought for my mother. Why would I call my mom? I don't need my mom anymore. I just had no thought for her. Selfish and self-centered. So she had to call my first sergeant and see if I was okay. That conversation didn't go real well when he called me in his office. But that's just the way I was, and today it's not like that. Today I've got a good life. Like I said at the beginning, I want to be liked by everybody, but I know it's not going to happen. You know, I've got a strong personality and I've been told that and there are certain people who think I'm preaching at them and the truth is they don't want to do the deal, you know, or they don'T have to do the deal. Not everybody in Alcoholics Anonymous is an alcoholic. There's a lot of people, there's friends of mine that do not have to deal with this deal. They come into the rooms, they drink the coffee, they do the fellowship and they're just fine, you know. At least it appears to be from the outside. I really don't know what's going on, but they appear to be just fine, and I know from my experience I just can't do that. I have to do the whole deal. But as a result of that, my life is different than it's ever been. We have a quality of life today that I just wouldn't give up. All the stuff we've gone through, all this wreckage that we've done, even in sobriety, have been learning experiences for me, you know? And I'm just barely learning how to be an adult. I'm 46 years old, and I'm barely learning how to be an adult. It's amazing. I've got a grown child, my third marriage, and I'm finally learning how to have a relationship. My wife's my best friend. Five years ago, I couldn't have told you that. My wife is not my best friends. Come on, guys. She would say that to me. I couldn'T say thatto her because it wasn't the truth because I didn't know how to have a relationship with a woman. You know, I mean a real relationship. And it appears to be attractive to other people. I had, I think it was about three years ago when my first ex-wife called and we got through a lot of wreckage together, a lot of wreck age. In fact, you know, I was sober for some time and she'd come over and she broke into our house one time and you know we had to call the cops and everything i mean there's all there was all kinds of wreckage you know and and it wasn't always one side i don't want to make it appear like it was all her because it wasn t you know in fact when i when i got sober the first time i made those amends um i'd made that list i'd done my eight step my sponsor told me what to do and then i thought i just kicked back for a while because i've done a lot of work you know i didn't really have to like go make the men's or anything and about the third time he asked me you're like two weeks after i did the list if you know about third time you asked me if i made any of the amends i go nope nope you know i'm still thinking i'm praying on it i'm praying for i'm paying for the willingness you know and um he said well who's at the top of the list and i said you know the first ex-wife he goes okay i want you to go over there today and make amends and it's like and and i did you know i was the kind of guy i just did what my sponsor told me do i didn't like it i didn't want to do it but i did it um because i didn'T want to die drunk you know and and even early on i didn't really believe that it was going to work for me but i saw it working for him and then after a period of time i saw it worked for me so i just continued to do it um but the first amends i made was to her and and i would have told you it was an amends i went over and i knocked on the door and she was living in this apartment probably half mile away or something from where we live and um you know probably two days before i cussed her out on the phone you know we had this screen match but here i am knocking on the door and she opened the door and said, what do you want? And I started, I have no idea what I was saying. I really don't. I mean, who knows what I'm saying? In my mind, I was making some kind of amends though. And she looked at me and she got this look on her face and she goes, this is one of those effing steps, isn't it? And I go, yep. She slammed the door, you know. Because she knew about the program, you You know, and in my mind, that was the amends. That was the ninth step of amends to her. And the relationship didn't change. There was a lot of yelling and screaming over the years. Over the years I tried to, attempted to make amends numerous times, but I don't think my heart was really in it. I hadn't really surrendered. I hadn'T really seen fully my part. In my mind it was just, you know, she had done all this other stuff. So even though I'm attempting to make some amends, And she really owes me, you know, some amends too. And about three years ago, she called us up and she had some sound in her voice and she said she needed help. And what we were doing over this period of years was attractive to her. You know, we were living this program and she says she needed health and she had a problem with alcohol and drugs, and what would we suggest to do? And she had an option to go into this treatment center that the Navy was putting on. We had both spent some time in the service, so she had that option to do that. And I said, it sounds like a good idea. It sounds likea good idea, I think you should probably do that, and we'll do whatever we can. You'd let me know if there's anything we need to do. And so for the whole time she was in that treatment place up there, we'd go up there every Wednesday night and sometimes Kate went with me and sometimes I went with a buddy of mine. And we'dgo up there on a Wednesday night where they had an open AA meeting and to be supportive for her, you know. And when she got out of there, she went to a sober living and I'd go and pick her up just about every Sunday and take her to church with us. And we would go out to eat and I paid the bill afterwards, you You know, and we'd listen to her stuff. And I think she was sober about, I don't know, somewhere between six and nine months. She was in this recovery home. And I picked her up to take her to this church we were going to. And she said, you know, I see you carrying that book. And actually, I was reading that book last week. And I thought, well, I'm going to read it to you. I think there might be some things you need to say to me in there, you Know? And I knew what she was talking about. she was talking about she wanted me to make amends to her you know and my ego went right up you know I didn't say anything at the time my ego won't write up it's like I've already made amends do you I've tried over the years in fact before she got so about two years before she got sober I remember my daughter was living my daughter with us and she was 15 and we had told her that she needed to get her homework done instead she went to a friend's house because they were going to go to the movies. And so I went over to the friend's house to pick her up because I found out that that's what she did. She, you know, not ran away, but I mean, she went over to her friend'shouse because she decided it was more important to go to the movie. And, uh, and she had called her mom cause she knew I was coming over there. And sort of mom met meets me in the parking lot. She was screaming this, this complex, this neither one of us even lived in, you know, she's like screamed at the top of her lungs. You, this, you, that you've ruined my life for 18 years, bloody, bloody bloody. and um so in my mind right away it's like well i'm making amends to you you know and uh but i heard what she said you know i heard what you said and i took that under consideration i talked to my sponsor about it i talked to my wife about it um i talked a lot of people about it and once again probably half the people in the rooms alcoholics anonymous reinforced what my ego told me you don't you don' t owe her any amends you took care of the daughter and you did all this you, you, and my sponsor said something he said well I can't tell you what to do or what not to do. What do you think you need to do? It's a party between you and God and I prayed on it and the truth was I never really made amends. I'd made these attempts. I made these half-hearted attempts and so I went and picked her up the next week and decided I was going to make amends to her And before, I'd never been alone in the car with her because my wife and I, we just don't do that. I don't get in the card with another woman or anything. So I always had my son with me or all of us sometimes stuck in the cart, you know. But this time I went and picked her up alone. And as we were going to church, you Know, I made amends to her. And what I did was pretty much right out of the book, you Now. And I didn't want to do it, but I knew it was the right thing to do. I brought up everything that I remembered. These are the things that I did wrong. And then I asked her when I got done, I said, is there anything else you need to tell me? Is there any other way that I've hurt you that you needto tell me ? Is there anythingelse that youneedto askme or tell me to where we can amend this ? And it just totally blew me away because my thought, here's what she's going to want. She's goingto want money. It's an ex-wife. She'sgoingto wantmoney, of course. and she's going to want stuff probably I mean, I had all these fears and she wanted none of that and in fact, all the stuff that I brought up she told me that most of that stuff she knew that's the way it was and that's not what bothered her but these things that you said and the things that your mom had said to me do you still think I'm a bad mother? and stuff that, to me, was just inconsequential stuff. That's what had hurt her. And all she wanted me to do was treat her with respect. That's all she want to do. And that started a whole new shift in our relationship. It's not like we're best friends, but we actually talk on the phone. And for a period of time, she would call and she would talk to me about stuff. you know and um and what i got out of that more than anything is i saw see i've heard for years in the program that the amends are for me i make them in so i feel better you know and my my perception on that is maybe maybe some but i think i need to make the amens because if i don't make the Amends the other person can't get better the other person's holding on to resentments just like the alcoholic you know she was holding she She's holding on to these resentments, and no matter what, until I made the amends, she had no opportunity to get any better. Because I wasn't giving it to her. And when I made them amends to her, all of a sudden she saw that I knew my part and that I was willing to amend my behavior, and to throw some apologies out there too that need to be thrown out there, but basically amend the behavior. And all of the sudden she could forgive me. you know and you know it's an amazing thing but it's only because I did it pretty much exactly like what this book talks about you know you know I work with a lot of guys and in just my experience the only ones that really get better are the ones that are willing to do the deal you know half measures of else is nothing you know there's a line in the book that talks about if you're seriously alcoholic as we were we believe there's no middle-of-the-road solution and see i really want middle of the road solution that's what i really crave because i'm lazy i want things given to me i don't want to work for anything i just want to feel good all the time you know um but what i found is i just can't do that you know in fact i hear in meetings all the time that this is this is just a gift you know you just come to sobriety and sobriete is a gift to you and and that's not what bill says in his story like bill says the price has to be paid. It meant the destruction of self-centeredness. It means we must turn to the Father of Light in all things. That's what I found that I've had to do. You know, I've Had to do the best I can to destroy the self- centeredness that ran my life. You Know, as a result of being what most people would consider a book thumper. I've heard all the things you're a Nazi, you're this, youre that, you know. I don't even care anymore. You call me whatever you want all i know is as a result of doing this i got a good life you know and um and i'm going to carry the truth as i know it and if your truth's different your truth is different but you know early earlier on like i said they have it all down in a history you don't have to believe me you can get the books and you can read it yourself the recovery rate was way different than what it is today way different you know um and they weren't all lower bottom drunks either i mean There was a lot of low-bottom drunks, but they had them do specific things. In fact, in Akron, in the early 40s, before it was even really called Alcoholics Anonymous, and you can read it in Not God, which is not an AA publication, but the history of AlcoholicsAnonymous by a guy named Ernest Kurtz. It's a real good book. It's sort of dry, but it's a good book if you like the AA history. They used to call this the Take It or Leave It Club because here's what would happen. And somebody would come to Alcoholics Anonymous, and the members would say, this is the way we do things. And if you tried balking, well, take it or leave it. This is the Way We Do Things, you know, and if you don't want to do them, that's okay, you know. Go back where you came from. And that's not politically correct today, but, you know, I've never really been politically correct anyway, so it just doesn't matter to me that much, you know. And like I said at the beginning, I want everybody to like me, but I just know it's not going to happen, you You know, I had a sponsor and I had a couple in a row that they cared more for me than what I thought of them. They cared more for me to carry the message to me, even though I'm way bigger than them. Sort of this angry guy, you know, and even though I didn't think so, you Know, they thought I was pretty angry and they just they just knew that if they didn't carry the Message to me and if I didn't do this deal that I was not going to get any better. And in fact there was one guy who was uh he told me he wasn't even really concerned for me he was concerned for her you know he said i don't need you know you're probably going to stay sober that's what he told me you're going to say sober but if you don't get better you're not going to have a life with her you know and you're gonna drag her down too and um so i do things a certain way and uh and the truth is it's not that hard when i just don't think when i act you know i get up in the morning and I have certain readings that I do some AA approved books, some non-AA approved books and I try to meditate I try this quiet time in the early time of AA they used to use that term quiet time a lot and they thought that was more important than going to meetings for some reason it's crazy, I know and the truth is I didn't do that for a long time in sobriety because I would try to mediate and I would sit there and close my eyes and all these thoughts would rush into my head you know like the chatter of a thousand monkeys and that told me mike you just can't meditate it's just not for you you know well it's like anything else you need to work at it you know that's what i found so so that's What I do and I'm not good at it but I do it you know when I do It on a regular basis and then I go about my day trying to be the best member alcoholic synonymous trying to Be The Best Husband Trying To Be The best father that I could be at that day you know and ask for guidance throughout the day I go to meetings every day. And it's amazing to me when I go to meetings how easy it is to get out of myself. And that's one of the blessings of meetings. Whether I think it's a good meeting or a bad meeting, whether I think the AA message is carried or not, I'm out of myself for like an hour, an hour and a half depending on the meeting. I'm listening to all your stuff. The only problem with the drama meetings is if there's no real message for me, when I leave there my stuff comes all back you know as soon as I walk out that door so I tell you I love Alcoholics Anonymous and I love the people that love Alcoholic Anonymous and I can tell if you love Alcoholical Anonymous or not most of the people that I know what it's like today is way different than what it was like before and some people might not think it's better we were talking about an acquaintance of ours on the way up here he's got 30 years of sobriety and I don't know if he's ever really held a real job and you know And, I mean, you know, he's got all this stuff going on that's totally different than what we're going on. But he's sober and he's helping other guys and he'S carrying the message and he seems pretty content, you know? And my opinion is that if you're content with what you're doing, if you'RE truly content, and not just acting, if YOU'RE truly intent with what YOU'RE doing, that's what you'RE supposed to be doing, you know? And today I'M pretty content with WHAT I'M doing, and it'S not that everything IS perfect because in my mind i'd have you know like five or six things different you know but um my sponsor tells me that uh you know god doesn't really care what i think and uh if i had my way i'd be drunk so just keep doing what i'm doing and and so that's what i do you know if you're new or relatively new a whole new life's waiting for you a whole new life is waiting for it and it's just a matter of are you willing to do it or not you know every single step along the way your ego is going to say i don't need to do that or i don'T NEED TO DO THE WHOLE THING you know except we're talking about the eighth step today it says that word all twice twice in the same step made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends for them all my experience is most people are not willing to do that you know and so they don't get the benefits because the benefits is permanent sobriety and content useful life that's what Bill talks about in the 1212 and since August 17th 1989 I had permanent sobrietty and I have a content useful life. And you guys gave it to me. You guys showed the path for me, you know, and all I've done is pick up the trail and just continue to walk. And if you're new or relatively new, you can do this. You can have a good life. You can be content with who you are no matter who it is. You're enough just the way you are. You're one of God's kids. And he doesn't love me or anybody else here any more than he loves you. All you got to do is do your part. All you gotto do is be willing. And it's ready for you. Thanks. Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day.