The Big Book Meeting That Was Taboo in Richmond – Valerie D.

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But not out-of-control money, which is a change. Responsible spending, that's a change Anyway, so I have no idea what I'm going to do So I was going to Do what my previous sponsor did And what my current sponsor does at things like this And ask you what you want Since I'm here to be of service to y'all So I thought we'd just kind of introduce ourselves And if you'd just tell me who you are and how long you're sober and what you're looking for this weekend. That'll help me. So yeah, that's all I have with y'all. And what kept coming to me was that my sponsor used to tell me all the time, he goes, Val, if you want to get to know, you've got to get zu know God's kids. And at these things, that's the most important thing that happens. It's not necessarily who you've Got talking or how profound what they have to share is, it's about what happens after the person's done talking. The magic that happens with one alcoholic talking to another alcoholic, when Al and I are talking to other alcoholics, talking about recovery, that that's where God is. So I'll ramble on and stuff, and God knows I can talk about myself ad nauseum. But that's the most important thing that happens here. And so you know that I'm a real alcoholic, I'll tell you a little bit about me. I come from an alcoholic home. My dad is an alcoholic. He's sober today, 26 years. So I grew up in that kind of insanity, lots of violence and craziness and my mother chasing him around with frying pans and him bringing women home to set up a party. And so that's how I grew up. My mom married in a pilot. They got divorced, and my mom married a pilot in the Navy, and we moved around a lot. So I loved the geographic. Even before I picked up a drink, I was ready to go when it was time to go. And a lot of that is because I never fit before I ever took a drink. There was something terribly wrong with me before I ever picked up a drink. And I absolutely was one of those people who was on the outside looking in. I never connected. I always wanted to connect with people, but I just couldn't. I used to blame that on my family, and I used to blame it on my mother had a square nipple, whatever. That's why I'm so different. and that's why I can't connect with people. And today, I think that that's my alcoholism. I have defective relationships. I am absolutely separated on my own. I'm separated from you and from God. So I was waiting for a drink. I needed a drink, The first place I found some power, though, my sponsor used to talk to me about that all the time, that Valerie is, we're power seekers. We love power, something that's going to make me feel whole and a sense of power and that everything's okay. And the first place I found that power was being a thief. And I used to go sneak over to my friend's house, steal their toys and put them underneath my bed, and they knew exactly where to go. They knew we took their toys immediately. I was like the neighborhood pariah at five. It was bad. So, you know, I didn't have close-knit relationships. When I had my first drink, I was 14 going on 15, and I was ready to have a drink. And it was absolute magic for me, no question. And I got sick, andI got in trouble, and engaged in immoral behavior, and I couldn't wait to do it again. I didn't care what happened to me was so profound. It was like a spiritual awakening. My head stopped. That huge hole in my gut was gone. That overwhelming sense of fear was gone, me not knowing what to say to you or how to be around you was gone so truly I didn' t care what the price was that I had to pay in order to drink again. and I was willing to pay it. And I immediately started pursuing drinking with a vengeance. And within a period of a year, and these were all, not that this is what makes me alcoholic, but to try to illustrate to you how hard I went after it, within a year I was labeled an ungovernable by the state of Florida, habitual truant, habitual runaway, transit use centers, juvenile detention centers. And those were all consequences of my drinking or me trying to get the money to drink. So I didn't care. What's the price I have to pay? I'll pay it. If it makes all of this go away, all that internal unmanageability, if the pain stops here and here, I'll do whatever I have to do. so so when I was getting ready to turn 16 my parents you know and that's what started the rounds of psychiatrists and psychologists and God knows I've been saved numerous times I've bit dip dunked and turned over twice you know I'm saying I've confirmed twice because the first one didn't take and that snow joke my parents thought I needed to do it again But, you know, so anyway, this one counselor who I was buying cocaine from, by the way, told my parents that I had an alcohol and drug problem and I needed to go into a treatment center. So in 1982, I went into the care unit in Jacksonville Beach, Florida, and I was there for three months, and I Was Pissed. I was not a good treatment participant. I don't like to follow rules. I never have, I heard Peg Martin describe it once I always think that the rules don't apply to me and I really believe that and have lived my life that way you know, I'll do what I need to do while you're looking but the instant you turn your back, I'm going to do it my way and if I get caught, I will be sorry for a little while and I might even have some genuine remorse but it's not going to last very long and that's the nature of me unrecovered that's how I operate so anyway so I'm not a guy as a matter of fact you know when you're in treatment if you're good you get to move up levels or days and you get more privileges when I left treatment I was in there for three months when I lost treatment I was on level one day one so I didn't do a good job while I was there and when I got out I had to start going to AA meetings and my mom used to drop me off at the AA clubhouse that's the worst And back then in 1982, you could still smoke and there's the coffee pot and very old people in that meeting, crusty old dudes running around in that meeting. And I was angry that I had to be there. I didn't want to be there and at that point when I came in in that area of the country there wasn't a lot of young people coming in and I'll never forget this guy saying to me Valerie you need to go home you're still young do what your parents are telling you to do go to church be a good girl you don't have to do what we have done and um I said so you don't think I'm an alcoholic he said no so he goes no you haven't you haven'T gotten that batter however he said that what I heard is you're not an alcoholic so it became my personal mission to prove I was an alcoholic to this man so I started showing up at their meetings drunk I stole the key to the AA clubhouse that's where I take my friends to go party was at the AA clubhouse. I stole their money. They used to put their money after meetings into this coke machine, and any good thief knows all you need is a hanger, and you can stick that down in there and pull it out, and that's what I'd use to drink. That was my drinking money. They always used to go, what's happening to our money? I don't know, you know, I mean because we're liars. I'm a liar. I lie about anything, everything. It doesn't matter. Habitual chronic liar. I lie even when I don't want to lie. I don' t even know where I learned to lie, I just lied. Ever since I can remember, I've been a liar. So anyway, not a good AA member. Not a good upstanding AA member I didn't want a sponsor because then they're messing around in your life trying to tell you what to do I didn' t want any of that it was going to interfere with my lifestyle I didn''t think I was really an alcoholic I was going to AAA because of consequences. That's why I was gone. And I was goin' in and out, in and out,in and out. I don't think I ever got more than three months at a time, maybe six. And would just show up when I got in trouble. And you know, would hang out in the clubhouse for a while. And when I was 17 though, I got into a lot of legal trouble with my pursuit of alcohol. and the option was given to me either get sober or you're going back to juvie and of course I'm going to choose sobriety I'll get sober again but I had hit a bottom as much as a 17 year old can I was at the end of my rope and I surrendered and I said I will never ever drink again and I meant it, I really meant it and my father was now sober about five years, and he was living in L.A., so, and family relations were strained in Florida, so I went to L.E., and Condon manipulated my way out there. My dad wanted me to, like, work the steps before I came out there, and I didn't want anything to do with that, so what I did was whip out the 12-in-12 read-up, call him, and just kind of make up something and say, yeah, I just completed steps one, two, and three, and this is what I learned, you know? I didn't do anything. I just read a book because I wanted to get out of there. I wantedto get outof where I was because, you now, it's all their fault and it'll be different when I'm with you because you understand and you're in AA and all of that stuff. So I got out there and he said the moment I got off the plane, he knew. He knew that nothing had changed and that's so true with us and I'm sure people that have been around for a little while something happens when we wake up spiritually we change and it's and people see it like that they just see it they know we sound different we look different we're taking different actions we're compelled to go help other people can't get away from it you know some crazy stuff is going on and uh anyway so he knew and um so i ran around los angeles for a while my favorite place to hang out was the 502 Club in Covina, California. And the saying there was, who's on who at the 501. And that was the place for me. I loved it. As a matter of fact, this guy named Big Book Mac, he said, girl, you need to sit down, shut up and keep your legs crossed because you're missing it. And I went to a meeting every day though. I was in a meeting everyday. went to the, we called them the 13th step dances, looking for love in AA at the dances which quickly moved to the parking lot and we were just crazy, we were insane, I was just running around AA was very social to me it was not about I'm going to die from this I just got into a lot of trouble when I look back on that I know I did not understand what it meant to be an alcoholic. I didn't get it at all. I didn' t understand what AA was about, and I don' t know if I heard that message or not. What I heard was, Don' t drink, go to meetings. That' s what we do here. And, you know, I had a sponsor which my father picked for me, and the only reason I let him pick her for me was he was making financial amends to me for pilfering mine and my brother's trust fund when we were younger. And, you know, but getting that amends, I was harassing him because he was up last weekend or this past last weekend for my anniversary. And I was harrassing him because he wasn't making financial amends to me. But every time I went to go pick up that check, a lecture ensued, you know about how I needed to straighten up and fly right and all that other stuff. And I thought, Dad, I thought amends were supposed to be free. You know, I know something now. I didn't know anything then, you know, now I know. But anyway, so I, you know, that's what I did in AA. I ran around, chased boys. I led a very ugly life sober. I got very, very, very spiritually sick sober. I was doing things sober that I hadn't even done drunk. So I know that alcohol is just a symptom of what's wrong with me. No question. No question. I slowly developed into somebody sober with no conscience. I could do a lot of things and feel nothing whatsoever, nothing. Stark, raven, sober. Very, very sick. So alcoholism is progressive, and I need something that's bigger than my alcoholism. So as a result of living that way, and I'll talk more about that, But living that way, I drank and it happened just like that. Somebody said, do you want a drink? I said, yes, I do. Just like that, three and a half years gone. And I stayed out there for four years. I moved to Atlanta. I tried the sheep experiment. It's going to be a sheep herder. And I thought that whole back to nature, cleaning out the barn, hugging trees, that kind of thing was going to solve my problem. It wasn't alcohol. When I drank, my mind got around that really quick. I was too young. You're a sheep drunk? Bad idea. And I say this with all honesty. It's a good thing I wasn't a man. I would have had carnal knowledge of those sheep. I see how that happens. They look good. They do. I'm not kidding. Not to offend, but it's true. I remember sitting drunk in one of the sheep stalls, just looking at it, and I got it, you know what I mean? But I'm a pig that way, you Know What I Mean? So, it wasn't a big jump for me. So, Atlanta for a couple years, I went to New York for a few years, I hit my bottom in New York. My father, in essence, 12-step me back into the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. I wasn't looking for it. I wasn'T like, God, I've had enough. The only thing that was different was I heard him because before that I'd been avoiding his calls at all costs. And when I got on the phone with him, I had very little to say. But for some reason that night, and I'd been out on a bench and doing what I do when I drink, which is raise complete hell and harm everybody in my path. And I said when I moved down to Richmond, Virginia, I'm going to get sober. It never occurred to me that I couldn't make that decision and make it happen because I'd always said, oh yeah, I're going to go back to AA and get sober, And then I'd go back to AA for a little while and drink for a Little While, not drink for a Little while at least. So when I got down to Richmond, I went to an AA meeting and it was the Phoenix group. I was arising from the ashes. I thought it was very symbolic. No grandiosity here. Anyway, but I felt like I was home. And I'd never felt like that in Alcoholics Anonymous before and I felt Like I Was Home. I felt They Read How It Works and I Felt Like I heard it for the very first time. It made sense to me. I knew that's where I was supposed to be. I got a sponsor that night. That was unusual behavior for me. She ended up being committed two weeks later, but she was perfect for me for those first two weeks. No joke, she was crazy. And I was crazy, bouncing off the walls. But I got sponsored right away. I called her every day. I did what she asked me to do. I was willing. And I ended up drinking two more times, And I had no intention of drinking whatsoever, none. And my last drink actually happened up in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I had gone up there to see an artist. I was representing artists at the time. And I was in his studio and he had a bottle of Jack in his studio on the table. And he said to me, do you want a shot? I said, yes, I do. And I wanted to be here. And for me it was a great experience because, you know, Our book talks about no matter how great the necessity or the desire, it's not enough for an alcoholic of our type. That I truly am powerless over this disease. I did not want to drink. Everything in me wanted to be an Alcoholics Anonymous. I was doing exactly what you guys were asking me to do. I wanted to pee here. So anyway, that night, and it was awful too because I'd just gotten two shots down, and my now-deceased ex-husband showed up to pick me up. And I'd only gotten two shot down, which is the worst, interrupting somebody when they've only had two. And I was a real nice person the rest of the day. And later that evening, after everybody had gone to bed, I'm going upstairs to drink because I'm going to finish off the job. And I just asked God for help. I said, God, help me. And that is the only thing, I think, that kept me from finishing off the Job. And I've been sober since then. It hasn't been necessary for me to take a drink since then So, sobriety has been really interesting. My sobriete date is October 13th, 1992. so I just celebrated 15 years my home group is a Jay Walker's group we meet on Tuesday nights and on Friday nights Tuesday nights we've got a speaker meeting it's an hour-and-a-half meaning to 10 minutes speakers a break and then our main speaker our Friday night meeting is a 45 minute newcomers meeting and and I love that meeting maybe I'll talk about that more too but And then we have a 15-minute break, and then we have a closed discussion meeting. So my home group just got done meeting. And I love them dearly. They have saved my life on numerous occasions. Should we take a break? Is it break time? Alright. Prayed up, and you know, I'm all nervous. So I want to impress you all, of course. He said that's a waste of your time. So, but anyway, I said, so Jerry, they don't allow smoking in this place. And he goes, great opportunity for you to really practice reliance upon your higher power, your creator. I'm like, thanks, Jerry. He's been giving me a hard time about not smoking for quite a while. And Don used to say to me all the time about my smoking, he'd go, you're missing out on some spiritual stuff, kid. which you know tell me what it is I want to know what it is I don't have to stop smoking to figure it out just give it to me which reminds me of another story with Don you know I was when I when I started getting sponsored by Donna I was probably four or five years sober somewhere around in there. And I remember calling him one day and I'm like, Don, tell me what to do. You know, because I want him to run my life. I want my sponsor to run My Life. I don't want to make any mistakes because if I do the wrong thing, I'm going to experience pain and I don' t want to experience or discomfort. And, um, I want to do everything perfectly. And I said to Don, tell me what to do. Tell me what to do, and he said to me, quit trying. You're such a thief. Quit trying to steal my experience. Go pray. Go follow the directions. Go pray Go get quiet. Ask for guidance and direction. Follow that, and if it's the wrong thing, you can do something else. I did not like that direction. I want a sure thing. I want a sure answer. I want safety in all things. And what I started to learn from that was that my creator is within me while I walk with you guys and travel this path with you guys, I've got this little nest within that I nurture with prayer and being quiet and taking the actions of AA that allow me to go out into the world and live and to carry all these things into all of my affairs. So I'm not hiding out in Alcoholics Anonymous. And that was, I won't say beaten into me, but it was, uh, I was sponsored strongly with that idea that, um, I'm not to hide out in AA, that I've got to take this way of life and these principles into my work life, into my home life, into my home group, into my relationships with the women I sponsor, in my friendships, my family, besides my extended family. And I've had amazing experiences as a result of just trying to live this way and making many, many, mini mistakes. I was talking to Tom yesterday. I used to be so afraid and very rigid. Don used to tell me all the time, lighten up, it's only a matter of life or death here. You know? I didn't like that either. I'm like, what does that mean? You know, I was this big thinker. I used to think a lot and try to wrap my mind around this way of life and wrap my mine around spiritual principles and wrap mine around my creator because I want to be God in my life. I want to dictate the path that I will take and I also while we're at it, I'll dictate to you what you need to be doing in order to make my path more comfortable and you'll love it it's a great plan once I explain it to you and get you on board, you're going to be really excited about it hasn't happened yet I was starting to burn a debt too I've always thought I've known what I've needed And I haven't been right once. Not once. Not even one time. And that's probably a good thing because then I'd probably try it again. You know what I mean? Think that this is going to be the time again. What have I found out that AA is all about? What I have found out THATAA is all ultimately about is service. That's what it's about in all my affairs. period that's it and we have these really cool tools that help get me prepared to go do that in the most effective way possible and as spiritually fit as I can bring to the table at that moment but it's about service and I see a lot of people even serve as junkies who miss that I probably shouldn't say that, but that's what I mean. I just got back from assembly too. That's chalk. God they're gonna hate me for saying this. Can we mute this? Mute. In my travels in Alcoholics Anonymous I have noticed that there are service junkies and after a while I see them become burnt on this way of life of just service, service, service service service services and they become burnout and they and they miss the the spirit of that so you know when I was uh when I about three and a half years sober I started to go insane and I should tell you this I've done AA just by every way that you can do AA I've I've done Hazelton, the Hazelston Steps. I've Joe and Charlie. I've the Seven Questions. I have done the Course in Miracles. And that's not all AA. But that's the stuff that I was introduced to in AA as this is the way. The 12 and 12, taking the steps out of the 12 and the 12. God knows what else. Whatever else I could come up with, too, probably. So at about three and a half years, I started to lose my mind. And what I was doing then was bits and pieces of the big book, a meeting every day, pick up a drunk every day. Carry him to a meeting everyday, that kind of thing. And I was ready to shoot myself. And I thought AA didn't work. I was very angry at God. I thought, like, I've been doing all this in AA. Look at everything that I've done. Look at what I've seen and what I'm doing. Why is this happening to me? Why is it happening? I was on the floor, like suicidal depressed, on the floor. It was absolutely a dark night. everything that I had a dependency on was taken away. I know what it means to be in sobriety, to have nothing, to be stripped of everything. No car, no job, no money, no place to live. People in AA saying, go away. You need to be committed. You're crazy. Stay away from her. She's really sick. She will bring you down. And I was crazy. I got really, really nuts. and started carrying a gun again. That's not a good idea. It's a bad idea. Very paranoid, and would just go from complete rage and just, I can't, you all know what I'm talking about, and then just on the floor, just wanting to die. And if this is it, I don't want it. And one night I set out purposely to drink and it didn't happen. Shortly after that I met Camille Frey in Louisville, Kentucky and that woman saved my life. I met her at a conference that I didn't want to go to and she looked at me and she goes, Girl you're a mad dog alcoholic and you're going to die. She sounded like a bad Louisiana psychic. You're going die unless you get into all three parts of alcoholics anonymous and I'm like I am in all three part of AA and it doesn't work but I heard hope in her because she was sharing her story and she talked about being 12 years sober sitting with a shotgun waiting for her man to walk in the door because she's going to blow the old boy away and I identified with that and I said I love her, she understands me and I asked her to help me and my life has never been the same since so what I did, I borrowed money and I went out to see her in Louisville, Kentucky and she talked to me. She talked about being in all three parts of Alcoholics Anonymous. I had never heard that before. I'm like, what are you talking about? And she talked to me about our circle and triangle and about recovery and she asked me some questions about, well, what have you done with the steps? Tell me about that. Well, there's some things I left off the inventory and this is how I wrote it. And I wrote the last inventory I'd done was the checkmark thing. and but there were things that I had left off of that and there were amends that I was never ever I mean ever gonna make they owe me amends and I had a lot of whole choice lovely words that started with MF that went along with with those people, and it was not going to happen. And she didn't fight me with that. She said, well, if I'm walking with you, you do it or see you later. Love you mean it. Don't waste my time. And it was good that she spoke to me in that way because I don't know that I would have heard it any other way. And, you know, she talked to me about the unity piece of this program, and unity was about convenience to me. That's how I conducted myself in Alcoholics Anonymous. I showed up late. I would leave early sometimes. I was at my home group. That was not a committed meeting to me unless – I was there unless I was really tired or I had something better to do, something better came up. And she told me, she goes, you will be there unless you are dead sick or out of town. And I'm like, that's harsh. And she goes and when I say sick, I mean sick. Not any of this mamby-pamby stuff you like to pull. And, uh, she had me nailed because I like mambly-pamby. I don't feel good today. You know? I hurt today. You know, what's my favorite ailment? You know. Um, and, uh she said, you know, how are you being of service to Alcoholics Anonymous? Are you a taker in AA? And, oh yeah, I'm a takER in AA. Yeah, I am. What do you, I give when it's convenient to me. Are you willing to be inconvenienced by Alcoholics Anonymous. Will you be willing to inconvenience by the newcomer? So, I was so desperate. Thank God for desperation. I said, I will go anywhere and do anywhere and do anything that you're asking me to do. And she says, well we're going to start at the beginning and when where it says right we're gonna write when it says pray we're going to pray when I ask the question we're an answer it when it says go here and do that we're in a go there and do and that's that's the deal are you willing and I said yes I am and so I started taking the steps out of the big book ever since then and it changed my life so that's The Message that I carry today she had me do a lot of things that that I didn't understand and I didn t agree with. One of the things she said to me, she goes, well Val, you know they're not lying in the big book. What they're saying in there is true. You know Valerie, she put it in terms that I could understand. If it said that sleeping with newcomers was a great way to gain spirituality, it would be in there wouldn't it? But it's not because it doesn't work you know what i mean so she put in terms i could understand she she had me now um so and my life was a train wreck train wreck i didn't know how to live at all i mean unmanageability everywhere everywhere i've been very angry I was telling Tom, I'm happy to report that. I haven't had the cops called on me in a long time. Because if you pissed me off, I'd go after you physically. And something that Don used to say, I'm just not capable of doing that anymore. I couldn't do that even if I wanted to. And that's absolutely God changing me. because that's how I handled anger ever since I can remember. If you made me mad, I was coming to get you. And I saw real value in that. One of the things that I love about our fourth step is that I can't fool myself about the value of my character defects anymore. And with my anger, for a long time, I still had a lot of value with that. because it kept you off balance. And if I scared you bad enough, you'd do what I wanted you to do. It would keep you away from me if I needed to get you away from me. I could get my way with it. And where I hit bottom with that is I was around seven years sober and I was at my home group and there was a woman who came in and it was a closed discussion meeting and she was introducing herself as an addict and it wasn't my duty after the meeting being little Miss AA that I have now graduated to because I am armed with facts now I'm dangerous you know what I'm saying I know something now I'm on fire truly really. I was like, I became a little, you know, I hate to use the term but it's true. I mean, that's how I was labeled too. I became an big book Nazi. And I hate to use that word but that's you get the picture. Big books thumper. I Was a Thumper and anyway, so this gal says to me in the traditions too and I'm laying down the AA law and I am coming after the people that are trying to destroy AA and I Am going to save them. I Am gonna sell them straight you know So I was on a mission. And anyway, so this gal, she introduced herself as an addict in the meeting. It's a closed meeting of AA. So after the meeting, I thought it was my personal responsibility as a good home group member to go up and inform her of her error. And so I go up, and I say something to her, and she says, are you the AA police? You can't tell me what to do. I can come into this meeting and I can do whatever I want. I'm like, are you talking to me right now? Are you talking to me? And she went on and on and I mean I was like a peacock. It just went whoo! And I was mad and then it began where I'm going to rip off your top part except i was voicing it very loud i'm going to rip it off and shove it up your bottom part other home group members are running around little kids are running around we have babysitting at our meeting people that came to visit the meeting that were trying to get off the ground and it's a big book meeting which was like taboo in richmond for a very long time we didn't talk about that stuff So we've got people visiting, trying to check it out. And that's the example of solid big book AA that I'm demonstrating. And I'm yelling and screaming at the top of my lungs and cussing up one side and down the other. And then the guy that brought her, I get a hold of him and I'm yellin' and screamin' at him and rippin' him a new one and just goin' to town. And I don't know who stopped me. But I got separated from that situation and went into the bathroom to pray. And I knew right away I was wrong, knew right way. And I made amends right away. And I went back out there. And they, she has never come back to that meeting. um the guy has come back with his new woman um and he stays far away from me and um and i've talked to him several times since then and just you know i was dead wrong you know what can i do is there anything i can do to make it right i scared the bejesus out of And I'm lucky they didn't call the cops that night. I really am. And I had to get up in the morning and make amends to the parents and the home group members, and I was in bad shape with that. I paid an awful, awful price with that, spiritually and emotionally, and I haven't had that since. and I'll never forget calling Don the next day and the only thing that he asked me was why were you so threatened and that's a great question to ask when I'm ready to go to war why am I so threatened because I like going to war, war is fun I can get a lot of power out of going to work especially if I think I'm right and I've never forgotten that question and I ask that of myself frequently. Why do I feel so threatened right now? What's going on? Is it break time yet? It's break time, yay! Smokers tribe. Well, I have no idea what to say now. You know, where do you start? And I'm just praying and asking that my creator guide me and direct me. Do we have a question from the crowd? You were going to tell us why you were threatened. Oh, I was? Well, what came out of that is I was afraid that I was doing it wrong. I was worried. I was scared I was wrong and that she was right. And my beliefs and convictions were so new, I was so very fragile with them, I think. And anybody that questioned me on my newfound fire and passion, I would automatically get into an argument with them and defend my experience or actually it was my new found knowledge. And so I think that was a large part of it, was what if I'm wrong. And I didn't know what to do and people disagreed. All I knew how to do was go to war if you disagreed with me. And very, very invested in being right. And that little saying around AA I thought was just complete hooey. you know, would you rather be right or happy? And I'm like, what kind of choice is that? You know, I mean, that made no sense to me whatsoever. I thought that was pretty mamby-pamby response. Something that my current sponsor today, Jerry, said to me, I don't know what I have my knickers in a twist about, but I was probably defending something, And he said, Valerie, what I have learned is that everybody's right. Everybody's right, even when they're wrong. I was like, whoa. That's true. And I like that, even wenn they're wronk. Because I want to hang my hat on that, you know. Because I still got a little oomph there. But more and more I see how true that is. that we really do cease fighting anything or anyone, which is paramount for somebody like me to cease fighting. And every time I have ceased fighting, it's always worked out fine and usually in ways that I didn't expect and better than anything I could have planned. I used to hate to hear that too. God's will for you is better than everything you could have had planned. And I remember, too, I used to have some real issues with the spiritual way of life or with this God-reliance thing. And I was very afraid of God. And I don't remember calling Don up one time and I was a very uptight, you know, very rigid kind of a girl. And I didn't remember what was going on. And all I knew was that I was praying, and I wanted relief from my mind and from my emotions because they were on me like this. I couldn't get them off. So I'm praying,and I'm afraid that I'm playing wrong. I want to pray just right. I've got to say it perfectly or I'm going to get no relief. And I called him up, andI said, I'm not working. You know, this stuff, you know, you seem to have some kind of special connection to God. I do not have that. And he said, well, Valerie, and I've been through the steps by this point several times out of our big book. And so I was surprised to find myself in this place. And I was surprise at what came out of my mouth actually because intellectually I knew differently. But out of My Mouth, he goes, well what are you praying to? Tell me about what you're praying to. Tell me your conception of God. And I said, God is punishing and God is vindictive. And if you don't do the spiritual stuff just right, you're never going to go anywhere and you're ever going to be happy and you've got to suffer for God and you have to suffer for a spiritual way of life. I mean, all this stuff came out and it was not a good story. And he said to me, he said, Valerie, you've Got God set up as a version of you. And I was like, wow, that's a low blow. Thanks. But that was true because I am all of those things. I am vindictive, punishing, play favorites. Like I thought there were the haves and the have-nots in the spiritual life, and I would always be a have-not. I would Always Be Somebody Who Was Struggling With This Spiritual Answer. I would never get it. And, you know, I'd hear these great speakers that I just adored in Alcoholics Anonymous who seemed to get it. And I just used to, you now, judge them because I wanted what they had but I didn't understand how they got that and I thought it will happen for them but it's never going to happen for me. And then, you known, Camille said to me, well are you willing to do what they have done? If you want what they have, are you willing to do what they have done? And also, you know, I was never happy where I was at. When I was two years sober, I wanted to be 20 years sober. When I Was five years sober I wanted To be 25 years sober not comfortable at all where I'm At currently today. I always wanted to Be somewhere different, Different and better in my mind it was different and better. Now I understand a little bit more about the journey and being present in today. And also today, very grateful for my character defects and not afraid of suffering at all. And that's a complete change for someone like me because I would try to control my experience in my life so to insulate myself from that stuff and because I want to feel good all the time unless I'm on a tear if I'm gonna tear the worse I feel the better and I like to nurse it then I like to feed it feel some misery with it go down dark with it go on to lockdown you know what I mean so and I can find power in that too love to be the victim of my own my own mind you know and we're always me it's a son of a bitch being me. You know what I mean? So full of shit. But anyway, so I don't fear suffering at all. Not that I'm asking for any to be delivered, but when it comes, it's okay. I know that there is another side to that and I don' t care when it shows up. I'm not attached to a time frame anymore. Like I'd be like watching, waiting. I don'T feel better today? I don't feel better today. When's this going to get better? I'm working with newcomers. When is it going to be better? I'm throwing myself into AA, when is it gonna get better?" You know all that stuff we get told to do. Go find a newcomer. Get your head out of your buttocks. Go work with a newbie. pick up some drunk and take them to the meeting do you have inventory to write do you know what are do you haven't finished amends I mean I can get so wound tight with have I done this perfectly because I shouldn't be feeling this I'm feeling this if something's wrong you know I mean in going into a mental whirlwind my friend calls it a psychic shitstorm and I like that that That describes it perfectly. So today, I just don't fight with that much anymore and my faith has changed. You know one of the things that I love in We Agnostics where it talks about we have to make that step from bridge to shore. And for me what that meant is I had to leave my mind and what I knew and really start to to trust this voice that was starting to talk to me within. Because it was starting to happen. And all my life I had been running from that. Running, running, running. And then it got so bad where it was just completely shut off. Where it was gone. You know and I come back into AA and it starts to open up a little bit more. I start to have a conscience again. I can't do the same things that I used to be able to do. And it was frightening for me to start trusting that. And I remember, too, this one instance and it kind of changed my faith and was like a stepping stone for me where I trusted my gut and what I was being directed to do. And on paper, it was something that someone like me should not be doing. And Don used to tell me all the time, Valerie, and this had to do with work. Follow your heart's desire. Do what God intended you to do. We all have a contribution to make. We've all been given the gift to do it. Go do it." Well, I can't do that. I dropped out of high school. You got to be educated to go do this. There's no way it's going to work out. You know, at that point, Camille had made me go back and get my GED in sobriety. I dropped out of high school a long time ago. But Don said, this is about the world of the spirit. And I don't care what you think you know about this. Because I shared with him about what was going on in my gut. And it was to go teach. And i couldn't go teach because i didn't have a college education. So my next option was to be a trainer. And so I started interviewing these trainers and finding out what they did and all this stuff and doing some volunteer training in correctional facilities. Now that's a joke, I have to tell you about that. I digress for one second. But it was a good thing because then we got a meeting started in the jail. So I did this volunteer training, and I go in to do this training, And it's about, with offenders, if you, it's moral psychology. If you help them to understand the consequences of their behavior and the impact that it has on other people, they will go forth and never sin again. And I'm reading this stuff going, this is a crock-a-poo. I can't train this. We're starting a meeting in here. because most of the people that were in that room were addicts and alcoholics. And I just could not, in good conscience, continue on with that training. So we started a meeting, and I didn't do that training but anyway, so, but I was willing to put myself out there. I was wiling to follow my gut and everything in the world told me you can't do it. People in the word said it can't be done. You don't have an education. You have no experience. And Don said, yeah, yeah. Whatever. Put it together and send it out. Put together your skills and send it out and I did and I got a job two weeks later. I couldn't believe it and making more money than I'd ever made in my life and I was making it honestly which was a different experience for me and I was learning how to become self-supporting through my own contributions. All my life I've been a thief in every way that you can be a thief. I stole from everybody. I was an equal opportunity thief. I didn't care. I'd steal from anybody under any circumstances at any time, and I did. So anyway, so I've learned how to – I've grown up in AA, I guess, and learned howto become self-supporting through my own contributions like pay my bills, not be a spiritual thief, not be an emotional thief. You know, I used to go to people, tell me what to think, tell me where to believe, ba-ba-ba, ba, ba-, you know, all that stuff. And thank God for strong sponsorship that said, you know what, you go figure it out and let me know. And I don't mean that to say that I didn't get strong direction. I got very strong direction, but like they knew when to let me go. They knew that line, and I think as a sponsor, you know, it's a conversation that I have with Jerry. You know, when am I giving direction, and then when am i trying to run their life? And sometimes it seems like a very fine line, which requires so much prayer, Which is good. Good thing about sponsorship, the little shits will make you pray. So that probably wasn't very nice, was it? But it's true, you know. But I went off on a tangent. Anyway, so that was like a turn for me, that trusting God was good, that trusting God was okay. That really what God has planned for me really is anything, it's better than anything I can come up with. It really is. And so I don't fear God's will anymore. I used to be afraid of God's Will. I was like, oh my God, that means I'm going to never have sex again in my life. I'm gonna have to be a nun in South America and be poor. That was my vision of doing God's Wil. It was bad. you know, and I'm like, I can't, what an order, I can't go, and you know. And Don said to me, is it possible that maybe God's already got somebody going down there doing that? And if you were directed to do that, then it would be okay. And my God, that sounds better than what you've got going on anyway right now, you know? Which was true, which was true. So my recovery life has been all over the map, a lot of different things, which I guess we'll talk more about tomorrow when we start to get into those steps a little bit more deeply. And is everybody tired or not tired? You want me to keep going? I'm trying to, because it's Friday. I'm fine. I can keep going. Keep going? Okay. Well, Y'all will leave if you're tired, right? When the room starts to thin, I'll shut up. So what else? Is anybody here questioning whether they're an alcoholic? Leo's going. If Leo's gone, it's time to go. You just heard my feelings. I'm kidding. Is anybody here not clear on whether they're an alcoholic or questioning that? Does everybody think it's okay to question whether you're an alcoholic? Sweet. See, y'all are like on the page. Actually, I think it is time to stop because I'm done on the inside. It's done. It is quiet. There is nothing else coming. So I am done. and telling stories and stuff and just about our alcoholic mind or our minds that is just unbelievably insane and the stuff that we come up with that really seems like a good idea it's always entertaining until you go to jail but anyway so really really excited excited about being here um uh it's just really neat it's really neat and it's neat to be with um a family out west that that i didn't know really well yet and um i run around a lot on the east coast and it's been really neat um and getting to spend time with you guys out here and aa has become my family i i never fit in anywhere else i desperately tried to and wanted to, but I never fit in anywhere else. I was always very awkward and never really fit in with a group. And I would move from group of people to group of People to group Of People either by the consequence of my actions. You know, I'd wear out my welcome in a group and I was just weird. I was just strange, and always doing and saying the wrong thing. And there were things that would go missing, so not a very nice person at all, and just very awkward. And when I got into AA, you know, and started to recover and started to get well and really started to be a part of this incredible fellowship that we have and started to become a member of life. And it was because of what happened to me in Alcoholics Anonymous. So when I go to work today, I don't feel like odd man out. I don t feel separated from everybody. I'm with my family, and they're all lunatics. I don't feel like odd man out or that I have to change them or whatever. I'll talk more about that. And that's just because of what Alcoholics Anonymous has done for me, and I found that first here, that sense of understanding and acceptance and then being shown a way to live that I just could not find before. And the only place I ever got relief from all the uncomfortability was, of course, through alcohol. So I want to tell you a little bit about my experience with these steps. When I got sober this last time, I was really desperate and willing to go to any length. And this is crazy, but if people had told me, Valerie, if you go stand in the corner on your head and that's going to keep you sober, I would have done it. I had gotten to that point where I was willing to go anywhere, do anything, if it meant that I didn't have to be me anymore or lead the life that I was leading. I was married at that time. My son was two. My life was very ugly, but on the outside it looked great. But my first husband made pretty good money, but I was not a good wife. I was nicht eine gute Mutter. I was one of those women that would drop their kid off and say, I'll be back in a couple hours and not come back. I'd come back when I was done drinking. And sometimes I'd be ten hours later. Sometimes it'd be a day and a half later. Sometimes I'd only be an hour late. But once I started drinking, something happened where I had to keep drinking. And again, I don't care what the price is I have to pay. I just don't cares. And that's the point I got to. I really didn't care. And I would show remorse if it was fitting. If I could get you off my back. when i would get into arguments with steve who was my first husband about my drinking and stuff and come home be a good wife this isn't what i signed up for um you know i'd do whatever i had to do to appease him so i could go out and do what i wanted to do and um and i did exactly what i wanted to do i absolutely did not consider other people or the harm i was causing him or my son at all um that's that's not a nice person and for a long time i had this delusion that i was a nice person that i Was a good person and i'm not left on my own steam i am not a kind person at all. I will be like the tornado, like our book talks about running through your life. As a matter of fact, when I went to go make amends to him, he told me, he goes, Valerie, that four years I was with you were the worst four years of my life. That's not a stunning recommendation, you know what I mean? Because we do, we run through people's lives and just create all kinds of damage and then completely arrogant about it. Like, get over it. Get over it, and I really used to feel that way and think that way. Get over It. I've been appropriately sorry. I've be appropriately remorseful. Get over IT. And getting mad at you for still being mad at me. You know? That's what I love, you know, when we're new and we come into AA. It's like, God, I've had a hard time and I've said so for the whole three months and they still won't, they don't trust me! You know, they still don't talk to me! You know. we're such idiots with that stuff. And I mean, it took five years before my mom, I think really believed that I was sober and not going to take something from her. So, and that's been an incredible demonstration in my family. But so when I got here, I was really willing and I got a sponsor and I told you about that last night. She got committed and then I got another gal who ended up not being an alcoholic. She ended up leaving Alcoholics Anonymous. Her name was Joanne. She was just having a rough patch, and she came into AA. And you know, just a small suicide attempt with some booze involved. But truly, she wasn't one of us. She's just having rough patch. But she was in AA and running around, and sponsored me for a while and called her every day. And I thought she was an alcoholic because she told me she was. And, you know, and she took me through the steps out of Hazleton. About nine months sober, I lost my mind and started bouncing off the walls really, really bad. And then I had left Steve. Once I sobered up, I left my first husband. I left him. And And started doing some construction work and cleaning houses and stuff. I didn't know anything about living in the world at all. I didn' t know how to pay bills, do a checkbooking and that stuff because I always found somebody to take care of me. So I didn''t know anything like that. I didn ''t know nothing about that, like paying rent and paying it on time and you get in trouble if you don''t, that kind of stuff, that I have to actually be responsible for a car and making sure it's legal. I had no clue about that stuff. I'm happy to report that my car is completely legal today. All speeding tickets have been paid. That's for a long time. I mean, nothing was legal. I didn't pay my tickets. When I left California, and this was sober before. Well, my friend in North Carolina calls it so-driety. I'm sober, but I'm dry, so-driety. But when I left Californian when I was sober for that three and a half years, I think I had 13 warrants out for my arrest when I left that I had racked up stark rave and sober. And just not paying attention, the rules don't apply to me. You know, I just throw that stuff away and keep going, you know? But anyway, I feel like Tom this morning. I'm like, here's a story, then I jump over this story, and then I go over this store. So I left Steve, and I'm learning how to live. I'm learned how to work a little bit. I'm not very good at it at all. I'm never good at showing up on time. Still not very at being where I'm supposed to be when I say I'm going to be there. A lot of times I don't feel like working, so I don' t. You might get a call from me. You might not. it. But I was going to a meeting and wanted to be here. You know, sometimes I forget when I'm working with new people and it talks about us in our, I think it's in one of the prefaces that we are very ill when we get here. Very sick people. I mean, I don't know anybody who comes into AA on a winning streak, you know? And AA is not known as an emotional and mental hotbed of great mental health. You know what I'm saying? So when we get here, we all were sick people. And, you know, to be compassionate and to remember. So I'm nine months sober and I'm starting to go a little mad and I start going to this big book meeting called The Fourth Dimension. and it got started, and they were big book something and all this good stuff, and it was great. You know, I had no idea that How It Works was in the big book. I'd heard it read in meetings for years. Had no clue. I mean, if you want to hide something from a drunk, stick it in the Big Book, right? It's the last place they're ever going to look. And not a clue. So it was magic for me because I started to, I was like, oh my God, there's directions in here. The first directions I discovered in the big book were the 11th step directions and I started practicing those and I just had a blast. I just said, I just have a great time and I kind of had a spiritual experience and I didn't kind of, I did. I woke up a little bit before where God was very nebulous and it's like, yeah, God, God or whatever. I'll pray because you tell me to. I had an experience and it was like, God is here. You know, it was, like, a big blinking sign. It's like I woke up inside that there was something going on here. Got excited about AA. Got excited that there were these directions in there. And just started on that path and being a member of that home group. And I had at that time, too, I switched sponsors again because Joanne had gone out. And that sponsorship line that I was in was very, very big on commitment. And that's where I really started to learn about respect for Alcoholics Anonymous and being committed in AA. That's when those ideas started being introduced to me. And I didn't fully surrender to those because they were a tad inconvenient, but I started to hear that message. And was held somewhat accountable to that stuff. So I'm going along in sobriety, and of course I've gotten into a relationship. And he's the one. Oh, it is absolutely God's will. We've been on two dates. We've slept together, of course. And it was magic, and he understands me. i think i even said to my sponsor at the time nancy i know it's god's will i know god's direction because we just connected and um and i've never had sex like that before in my life and i mean yeah i mean i'm sure she was like yeah whatever uh but i'm glad that nobody can see that on tape what i just did but anyway um you know and she had been around so she was laughing you know it was funny but i you know we really believe that you know we really believed that this is god's will and so i got into this relationship and and it was insane of course we moved in with each other right away um you know with that joke with you get two alcoholics together you know at the end of the first day do you say the lord's prayer do you pack up the u-haul you know and move Then we packed up the U-Haul, and he was at home living with his mama and daddy. And I'm like trying to load out a lift, could barely pay rent. And, I mean, it was just crazy. It was insane. But it seemed like a great idea at the time. And, you know, we're different. You know, I listen to other people's experience in AA, and I listen for my sponsors' experience, and I'm different. and i just i remember thinking that i am different what you're saying does not apply to me i'm going to do it different i'm listening to all the mistakes you made i'm not going to do that i'm gonna do it differently because this is true love true love and um so anyway disaster disaster ensues why because i don't have a relationship with god it's brand new, it's just a baby. Just a baby relationship. And of course this man becomes my higher power. You know and I start worshiping at the altar of Alex and get very sick. I start missing out on my commitments in AA. Start getting into arguments so I don't go to the meeting or i don't talk to that new girl because we're arguing that's more important that we get this thing resolved um which and it never never got resolved that way ever um so just a lot just crazy time um you know and then you know the big dramatic breakups well i'm going to go find some strange because i'm mad at you because i like to retaliate so i'll go back to what i know i'll just go find me a new boyfriend that'll show you and i might do it so you can catch me and i might not you know want to keep you off balance so you never know really what's going on because that's how i like to maintain control and uh it's just insane and and having a hard time working and you know because that becomes paramount in my life that becomes the all-important thing so i hit around three years it's another breakup it's nasty um it's ugly and i just i hit a another bottom in in aa and and it was good it's the most painful thing i've ever gone through in sobriety And it took me a while. Sometimes I even hate to talk about how long it took me to come out of that. And a lot of the reason why is because I added to it by the bucket load. But it was the turning point in my sobriety, and I am forever grateful for all of that stuff that went down at that time. So at that time, the sponsorship that I was involved in Was about a meeting every day Didn't really do the big book It was about go find a new drunk and carry him to a meeting And write me a letter once a week and let me know what's going on And I started stealing in earnest again um i started going to work and say i was i was working for a film producer at the time and i said well i'm going to go into dc and make some calls on some prospective clients he did corporate films and stuff you know try to find some and then i just go home and get in bed not go to work um and i talked about that a little bit last night i uh And eventually stopped working, couldn't work. Everybody in AA that I knew, my behavior became so bizarre that they were literally, I was disowned by everyone I knew in AA. You know, stay away from me. I started getting, my anger started showing up in earnest. Small anger problems, small. I wasn't welcome at the Rebo Center, the sober center. It was just a really ugly time. It was a really painful time. You know, and he had left and he had started dating someone else. Oh, I know that's a bad one. So what's my, what's her natural response? I will stalk you. So, you know, how I added to that was, you know by hiding behind bushes and underneath cars and vandalizing his things and scaring him. I mean, he... It's a true story. And he told me later, he's like, you know, I was afraid. He goes, I didn't know what you were going to do. He goes it was terrifying. I didn' t know what you were capable of doing. You were so weird. I mean, I had like bad vibes coming off of me. I'd go into the meetings where him and that girl were and I'd just like stare hate, you know, and hope that they were feeling it, you Know? Because I had been wronged and, you know, and I was like the bad person. I was like the crazy person and then he was the angel and I'm like, you're all wrong and I wanted to show him what a, you know, whatever. I wanted To prove to them, to everybody in AA that he was bad, you Know, and I was the victim and how can y'all do this to me? It was just crazy. And then I met Camille. And literally the woman saved my life. If I hadn't have met her, I know I'd be drunk or dead. No question in my mind. No question. Because that's where I was headed. is I got very angry at AA and very angry at God. I didn't understand why all that was happening to me. I thought God was punishing me. I thought that AA didn't work, that all you guys were a bunch of hypocrites, that you guys didn't walk what you talked, that I was in real trouble and you weren't helping me. You were just standing back there judging me. And I was in real struggle. And I tell you, Camille likes the crazy ones, I guess because she just scooped me up and she didn't pat me on the tutu or anything. She told me, you know, you're going to die. You're in real trouble and there's some real work that we've got to do here. So I became willing to do what she asked me to do and she laid it out clearly. And that was good for me to see because I used to chase people down. Chase them down and try to make them get this thing. and really attached to whether they got it or that or they didn't um and and really wanted them to to have what i had found and i started thinking about my experience with camille and dawn they could have cared less and it wasn't that they didn t love me they did but they knew that this wasn't about them that either i was willing to do what they did or i wasn't and it started to teach me a lot about sponsorship like today um i used to be very very rigid in my sponsorship and i mean i was planning out their life for them and this is what they were going to do and i have a pretty strong personality and i can be a real steamroller you know and and i'm not past shaming you into taking what i the action i think you should take i mean and it was just i was just like how bent on it and um or guilt share or whatever you know you will get this brand of aa you know because you will wake up spiritually as i have and if you haven't if this isn't happening then we've missed something and we're going back and i mean just crazy um really really wound tight and rigid uh you know don used to tell me all the time lighten up it's only a matter of life or death it's okay um so but what i've learned today is that with sponsorship it's like uh you know it's something i choose like for me today with my sponsor jerry today i choose to be accountable to him he doesn't enforce that on me I choose it. It's my choice. He can't force me to be honest with him, I choose that. He can t force me do what I know I need to do in Alcoholics Anonymous. I choose that. So it s like my life becomes an open book to my sponsor no matter what. I don t sit around and wait for my sponsor to chase me down and uh pull out the secrets of my heart and you know i was famous for pouting in the corner like notice that i'm in pain come try to save me and fix me and delve into my psyche and fix the wounded bird that i am you know that's what i would do or i'd just make up some crazy because i thought that that's what you needed to hear so you talk to me you know what i mean something had to be going on and it needed to be bad you know uh so you know um it's i've freed up a lot in terms of sponsorship which is in in my understanding of sponsorship which has freed me up with the people that i sponsor um so but i'll talk more about that later but anyway so camille had me um drive out to Louisville, Kentucky. So I went on out there, borrowed some money and went out there. And she sat me down and she started talking to me about all three parts of Alcoholics Anonymous and what was I actually doing in all three part. And I had been at that point in bits and pieces of the big book but not the whole enchilada. And I didn't even realize there really was a whole enchalada. because it just hadn't been explained to me that way. So when she started taking me through the book, and especially the first step, I think I was almost four years sober before. Not I think, I know. I was Almost Four Years Sober Before where I really took a first step at depth where I knew I was an alcoholic and accepted that at depth and everything that that means that i'm absolutely 100 screwed on my own power no no question in the unmanageability but the powerlessness over alcohol i had never gotten that before um and i hadn't heard about it talked in that way in meetings of alcoholics anonymous and camille used to tell me all the time she goes valerie big book is the greatest aa sifter there is if you can't reconcile in the big book what you hear in a meeting then it's not aa you know that they they wrote it down in black and white for us and put it in the big book so we wouldn't mess it up you know read the black part you know and then we'll talk about that uh yeah don't get lost in the white because that's what i'd like to do because i like to interpret, you know, and add to. And Don used to say, Valerie, the dumber you are here, the better. Because I call him sometimes, I'd be just like on an intellectual rant. He's like, I have no idea what you're talking about right now. It makes no sense at all. But I was like, it made perfect sense to me at the time. I knew too when I called him that I was in trouble if he'd go, did you hear what you just said? did you hear that and i'm like what what what did we talk about what have been you know what crazy stuff was coming out of my mouth or if he'd say uh or if he'd saying um let's talk about that and I being you know goofy be like yeah let's talk about That and then I finally figured out Elkins trained me up to this that that means shut up he's got something to tell you yeah but I'm like yeah let's talk about it my sponsor is on my side you know so anyway i started you know and sorry didn't know about this uh recovery unity service this mind body spirit 12 steps 12 traditions 12 concepts i didn't even know anything about the 12 concepts um you know she you know she told me you get into all three parts of these things to the best of your ability the circle represents wholeness you will become whole your life will become home your spirit will become whole and that's what's happened to me and i was just terribly broken and um and felt very hopeless sober so it was great promise to me it took me a long time to come out of that depression and several times going through the steps. And this is my experience. There were a lot of people that were around me that said, Valerie, you need to be medicated because I was suicidal. I mean, I was thinking about suicide every day. And one of the things that was given to me, and I don't know why I trusted it, but I did. They said, If you will give this an opportunity, if you will go through this, and if there's still no hope after this, then we'll go look into that. But let's give this and opportunity first. And I was just willing. I said okay. As a result, and I've been depressed ever since I was a little kid. um but you know so i'll never forget the day that i i realized that i hadn't thought about suicide a long time it was like a spiritual awakening for me i haven't thought about suicide in a long time it was awesome it was incredible um and i'm somebody with suicide attempts in the past have been hospitalized around that stuff several times so i know the power of alcoholics anonymous and i know the power of these instructions and the power of getting a relationship with my creator changed me did something to this up here i got that psychic change that is so necessary for us because my best thinking is i want to die um so i know that this stuff works in my depression the longer I'm sober becomes less and less and less and I'll get bouts of it here and there they may last a day sometimes two days a prayer that Don gave me was God help me not to get depressed about being depressed because God knows I like to nurse my misery sometimes why do we do that? I don't know and you know she helped me look up the word textbook and I gotta tell you I went through this phase it was the big book where I looked up every single word and was just like really anal retentive with it that's why I was so rigid just incredibly anal I mean it was tight you know what I mean and and it was a good experience you know as a little big book evangelists and all that stuff, and got a really bad reputation in AA. You know, they didn't like me when I was crazy. They definitely didn't like me When I turned into a big book thumper. It's like what's worse? We don't know. Just go away. So, but that, and I love this definition of textbook. You know, and Camille had me go buy an old dictionary. She said, Go find an old Dictionary in one of those flea markets or one of those antique bookstores from the 30s so i've gotten a couple of those but i love this definition textbook it says it's meant to be done in order steps are meant to be done and ordered it's information to transmit to me information about a topic which i know nothing about what do i know nothing about i don't know anything about living sober comfortably nothing i don't even know how to live one of my favorite lines in we agnostics which resonated with me i was like that is me i had to find a power by which i could live because i don t live well at all on my own i create havoc internally and out here um so yeah that's right that's me and to transmit an experience and um you know and the directions are there for to to transmit a spiritual experience to all of us you know am i willing to pay the price because there is definitely a price to pay here and uh some days i'm more willing than others hello so she got me into that and of course you know we did the diagnosis of the problem you know and what our prescription is and and all that good stuff which was great it was beautiful because it it put in ways that I could understand and that made sense to me she goes you see that Valerie forward to the first direction says precisely how we have recovered and um and i'm just going to say the cuss word that camille said to me and it's on tape but that'll be okay she said precise means precise valerie that means there's no gray area because i'm all about the gray baby you know she said it's don't monkey with it we're not gonna muck it up precise means precise We're going to do exactly what it says. We're not going to add to this. We're Not Going to Bring Any Secret Mojo To It. We're NOT Going To Bring Any Outside Opinions To It, We're Going To Do Exactly What They're Asking Us To Do And Ask God To Help Us Leave Our Mind Elsewhere. Let's Not Get Confused About What We Do Here. Let's Keep It Simple. And I Was Told Very Early On With Camille That The Truth Is Always Simple. It's never complicated. The truth is never complicated It's this and this my emotions my head that get really complicated but the truth is never complicated So anyway we started going through that and reading the prefaces and I just started having a great experience with this stuff and you know the first action in there start reading the stories in the back the book and i i never read the stories in the back of the book because it wasn't mine um uh she started talking to me about what talks about for the first edition we would like it understood that our alcoholic work is an avocation that you know and chuck c said it we do this for fun and for free and without thought of repayment that this is an altruistic deal. That ultimately, when you boil AA, when you get rid of all the stuff, AA is about service. Me being of service in every area of my life. Me be put to use by my creator, really. That I am now in the world to play the role that God assigns. And sometimes I like to get in there and start assigning myself a role because got some good ideas and of course it involves lots of money lots of sex and fame i was talking to tom we were talking about uh being humble and we're like yeah not so much but i can be humble when you're looking i'll be humble while you're watching so i get a good report that's how humble i am um you know in anonymity becoming anonymous To me, Don Prince was the epitome of anonymity and demonstrated that principle in all of his affairs. That was a humble man. Not that he didn't have an ego to get him going or whatever, but a humbleman. I think he got that anonymity piece. All right. time for a break I don't know if it is for you but it is for me ready to go watch out so I'm in a third edition too so just to let you know one of the things too that really hit me was you know in the preface on the third edition that last paragraph it says we hope that you may pause in reading one of the 44 personal stories and think yes that happened to me or more important yes I felt like that or most important yes I believe this program can work for me too a lot for a long time I used to define my alcoholism by my consequences and when I would go to meetings if we didn't have the same consequences I didn't identify with you but if you started talking about how you felt there you had me especially when you started talking about the loneliness, the fear, the desperation. That I understood. But what our foundation is here, one of the most profound things that happened to me in Alcoholics Anonymous is that I felt understood at depth for the first time in my life. And that's powerful because I used to run around not being understood at all and not even understanding myself. Don put words on that for me when he was talking about his drinking and people would look at him and say, why did you do that? And he's like, I don't know. And we try to come up with a reason why our behavior is so bizarre. But in our hearts, like it talks about in here, We really don't know why we do it. I don't now. I don' t know why I did it, I didn' t necessarily mean to do that. I didn't want for that to happen. I don''t know. So it started putting words on, when I started listening to other members of Alcoholics Anonymous they started putting word on my experience that helped me to identify that I'm absolutely in the right place. is one of the most powerful things we can do is to talk about how we were really living and what we were thinking and what were really doing. I'm such a liar though, you know, I always want to be something other than I really am. Especially in sobriety, I got caught up in that. This is what I want you to see but the reality of what I'm really doing is something entirely different. and usually it was a dishonest um or i'm breaking some kind of internal moral code or whatever not that i had many when i got here but the few that i have that started to get reinstilled in me um i was breaking those on a regular basis as well um but anyway so that's where i really started to identify do i feel like this do i think like this you know and then sponsorship you know if you're sponsored by somebody who who takes the steps out of the big book you know when you get into bill's story they start to ask you to identify with bill wilson do you identify with the founder one of the founders of alcoholic synonymous did you think like bill did you drink like bill did you feel like bill because if you did you're probably one of us because we're crazy not everybody identifies with us we think they do but they don't um I mean, we certainly have the human condition, but we're a little nuts. We're a touch in some ways. That's part of our charm. That's what I think. I love it crazy, you know? So that was really powerful for me, that this is about identification. When I talk, do you hear me? When you talk, Do I hear you? Do I understand? And then forward to the first edition, it talks about many do not comprehend that the alcoholic is a very sick person. I was at the least to comprehend how sick I was. It was actually years into sobriety and trying to live this way that I really started to understand how sick i really was. just didn't see it i didn't get it at all um you know and then they go on to talk about the beginnings of our traditions and and all that stuff and i like that it says honest desire to stop drinking i don't know that everybody who comes to a a has an honest desire to stop drinking but who cares you know maybe uh a seed gets planted um the forward to the second edition was wonderful for me there's a lot there's tremendous history our our early days um in alcoholics anonymous there's alot of really good material out there these days too that talk about how we came about and it's truly amazing the only reason you and i are sitting here today is because of these weird series of events that all happened in this most miraculous way how we all came together and the timing and the different parts of the country. And God wasn't using saints. He was using some goofy people. And that talks to me, too, about God's mercy. When people used to say that we have a merciful Father, the thing that would come to my mind when you said the word merciful or mercy was me sitting on my brother, pinning him down, having just drank some nice orange juice, doing the spit thing, and him screaming for mercy. Mercy, mercy! I didn't have no mercy. I was torturing him and enjoying it. Or I was. So that was my idea of mercy. So when you would say merciful father, that's what I saw. That was my interpretation. How I understand that today is just a limitless amount of compassion for how weak I really am, that at my core I am a very weak person, that of myself I am nothing, and I absolutely need God's grace and mercy and compassion. um and accepting that and allowing that to happen well i didn't allow it to happen shoot it just happened but um has given me tremendous compassion towards god's kids that on my own i'm just not capable of on my on i'm judging you and comparing to you um so i digress but anyway so getting into that and understanding how this this wonderful series of events and you know dr bob is a crazy drunk and he's trying the oxford group and which is a fundamentalist christian movement and um he's tring that in order to get sober and to stay sober and it's not working. And they're very spiritually active people. And that's not happening. And then Bill Wilson shows up from New York on a business deal which falls apart. He goes into the, you know, he's in the lobby of the hotel. Is he going to drink or is he going to find another drunk to work with? He starts calling all these churches in the lobby. And the last church that he calls, the guy says, yeah, call this gal, Henrietta Seiberling, who was involved in the Oxford group. And she says, Yeah, I got somebody to talk to calls Dr. Bob and or his wife, and because she knows and, and and you know, like a good Al-Anon knows how do muscles him into a meeting with Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob says all right well I'll go but I'm only going for 15 minutes and they show up and they end up talking for six hours and why because Bill Wilson was properly armed with facts about himself about the true nature of alcoholism that there is something physically and mentally different with us that non-alcoholics just do not experience. And I don't care what kind of ritual you've got going on or worship stuff you've Got going on over here with the Oxford group, it's not enough. You know, we've got to be firmly grounded in this truth about what's wrong with me. That's why clear inventory is so important. When I go into 6 and 7, I need to be clear on what the problem is, where I've been, how my selfishness, dishonesty and self-centeredness, fear whatever how that manifests if i don't know what the problem is i'm not very clear when i'm going to my creator asking for help you know um that's another reason why i don' t think the checkbox inventory is very effective because um uh it's too vague it's easy for me to throw off oh yeah i'm selfish and self-centered yeah yeah yeah and it's true but i never get to the root that about how that manifests very important so anyway um i love this stuff you know and it talks about it forward to the second edition that the physician on the second page the physician had repeatedly tried spiritual means to resolve his alcoholic dilemma but had failed and i identify with that i've been saved numerous times i and i have felt the movement of the spirit and i've gone up there on altar calls been to those crazy evangelical you are healed kind of stuff my sponsor was telling a story we did a retreat with my sponsor in elkins two or three weeks ago and my sponsor was talking about uh his uh brother's the freewheeling baptist preacher that's like hardcore and um you know jimmy swagger would come on the tv and he'd get all ready there with jimny swagger and jimby be like pray with me brothers pray with jerry put his hand on the t.v and he'd be praying with him on the TV and at the end i just got this whole visual picture of that happening i thought that was hysterical but i understand that desperately looking for an answer one of the things that Don I heard Don share one time he said, I've always known my answer was spiritual in nature there's been some part of me ever since I was little that has searched for something that has been on a quest for something and I've Always Known It Was Spiritual and I can identify with that to a degree when I was younger trying to commune with nature and the things around me. But worldly clamors always got in the way, even as a small child, already obsessed with myself and my surroundings. So I identified with that. I repeatedly tried spiritual means to and had failed. But when the broker, Bill Wilson, gave him Dr. Silker's description of alcoholism and its hopelessness, that this is a hopeless condition. It's bigger than everything that I can bring to bear, everything I can brings to bear. The best psychiatrist I've ever seen, everything that shrink could bring to bare on my dilemma was not enough. The love of my parents, not enough, the love I had for my son, not enough my desire to be a good person not enough everything I could bring to bear everything the courts could bring two beer it's not enough and that's a hopeless hopeless situation you know what are we gonna do you know in the crazy thing with alcoholics is we've got another idea that doesn't involve this you know there's got to be another way maybe if I rebirth you know do the rebirthing thing I loved a COA I showed up at AC away with my little teddy bear ready I knew it was their fault I knew that I knew it they did irreparable harm to me and damaged my spirit they did I believe that turn through it's their fault huh my parents and in the ACLA meetings that I had gone to in California we're very in and I don't know if all ACO a a meaning sir this way i don't know i just know the one that i was attracted to was uh you are the victim it's absolutely their fault and you were just damaged beyond repair and um your life's gonna suck because you're so damaged and uh you will never get over this you know and i've had psychiatrists who've said oh you've got to confront your past and you've You've got to confront your abusers. And AA is the complete opposite of that. This isn't about them. Where are you wrong? What have you done with it? How have you caused harm? We forgive that. And God knows we need God's power to do that. Because on my own, I like being a victim because then I don't have to change. And it's always your fault. But it's a miserable way to go. There's no freedom there. so um so anyway uh so when when bill wilson got the truth about his condition he starts to pursue this this spiritual remedy this spiritual answer for his malady that's a strong word but it's a great word that describes us malady is like mental illness we're definitely mentally ill i love it in uh how it works it says that we come here with grave emotional and mental disorders We do. Or I did. Most of the drunks I know have. They don't come here, you know, with everything intact and seeing the world clearly. We're kind of goofy. And I love what it says. This seemed to prove that one alcoholic could affect another as no non-alcoholic could. It also indicated that strenuous work, one alcoholic with another, was vital to permanent recovery. Vital. And that has been the example that has being demonstrated for me by my heroes in Alcoholics Anonymous. Strenuous Work With Other Alcoholics. Active Work With Another Alcoholics, Effective Work With The Other Alcoholic. I mean you can be really busy in AA, lots of activity but no real action. and what I was shown was effective action. And I've made a lot of mistakes with that, which we'll talk about more later, but that has been my... I am willing to do that. And actually, I think when somebody wakes up spiritually, they can't not do it. That's been my experience, and that's been My Experience with people that I've sponsored, is once they get it they're on fire man they want to go save the world it's great but they're actively they become actively engaged in helping other people bless you I like on X IX what is that I don't know what number that is Is that 14? 19. I'm glad there's some smart people here. I don't know what that is. In that first paragraph, it says, you know, they're talking about the reality of Alcoholics Anonymous and mistakes we make. It says, but out of this frightening and at first disrupting experience, the conviction grew that AAs had to hang together or die separately. We had to unify our fellowship or pass off the scene. And I find that that's true in every area of my life, that that principle has to go into every area of my live. And it's paramount that I practice that principle in my home group. And I'm very passionate and I guess somewhat protective about our traditions when I when I first got here you know I was going between both fellowships a and in a I was introducing myself as an alcoholic and an addict and I thought I was both I used a tremendous amount of drugs love drugs and then I didn't know any different and and then an old-timer got hold of me and said you know when you're in a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous you need to introduce yourself as an alcoholic and I thought they were full of poo and I that that didn't apply to me and they needed to change the rules that the reality of it old man is that AA has changed and you guys just weren't around when this is going on but let me tell this is what goes on now i'm going to write to gso because this is crap um you know we should everybody should be able to come in and be a member um and you know so i got into a fight with an old timer and told him how he was wrong um and yeah but just but no clue and and then later camille got a hold and i believed that through and through and would have defended it to the death that AA needed to change, because times had changed. And then Camille got a hold of me, and of course Don got ahold of me about our singleness of purpose and how important that is to our survival, that this really is about one alcoholic helping another alcoholic. One time I was trying to help a heroin addict, And she was coming. I had met her in a correctional facility, and she'd have a little drinky-poo here and there. And she Was very attracted to AA. She was very attracted To our fellowship. She asked me to sponsor her. She said she was an alcoholic And an addict. I took her through the book. She would change her experience To be an alcoholic. She'd lie about her experience Of being an alcoholic I desperately wanted her To be in AA. I wanted her to be an AA. I wanted to keep working with her. And of course, I wanted to be the one who brought Margaret around because she was hardcore. Because you know there's status in that. So, so she couldn't stay here because we'll kill addicts, real addicts. Not Not that you can't be both, but my experience has been that they're far and few between. They are the minority. But she was a heroin addict, not an alcoholic. There was no alcoholism there. She, with alcohol, could put it down and walk away. She could not do that with heroin. And I was over her. And I'm so naive about heroin. She'd come into the meeting, she'd be nodding out. I'd be like, what's going on? She goes, oh, I'm tired. I believe her. Well, you need to get some rest. Are they working you too hard at that restaurant? You know, and she's losing weight, you know, getting thin as a rail. You know. She's got some bruising. She starts just wearing long sleeves. You know? She's walking a little funny because she was shooting up here and got some abscesses or whatever. You know clueless Because I've never shot heroin. Not a clue. And so I go over to her apartment one time, and I'm going to help her. So we're sitting on the sofa. So I'm reading the big book to her, and she's nodding out while I'm reading her the big big book. So I called Don. He goes, what the hell are you doing? Get the hell out of there. You can't help her you have no experience with that and she was actively in her addiction he said ask her if she wants to go to an na meeting or go to the hospital that's how you'll know if she really wants help because she could call me and i could come over and make her feel better for a little while and i was only too happy to do it because i wanted her to make it and i realized i was harming her um so i asked her do you uh do you want to go and the answer was no and it was it was heartbreaking for me i did not want to leave her apartment but i left i've seen her a couple times here and there but you know that relationship was done at that point um so so this piece that they're talking about about our we have to hang together is vitally important and i you know have seen alcoholics hiding out in narcotics anonymous so i mean we will kill addicts no doubt in my mind um so i'm very clear on that my home group is very clear on that when we have somebody who shows up at our home group that's a drug addict we don't yell at them we don t treat them unkindly because i've seen that happen in aa before well you don't belong here you go find another fellowship get out of here what are you doing here i mean real unkind stuff not what aa is about at all so what we do with our group consciences is um we sit down and we talk to them and help them find out you know do you have questions about whether you're an alcoholic and that's our responsibility as aaa members let me help you find out if you're an alcoholic of our type and if you are not i know some people that are members in good standing in narcox anonymous let me hook you up with them let me take you to them and being that bridge for them so they can find the fellowship they crave the fellowships they need that understanding that touches us at depth like they're talking about in here the thing that that i know what it means to be an alcoholic i know What It Means To Be You Know Heroin Act The Thing That Goes On I Don't Know Anything About That I've Never Been Down That Path So Sorry To Get Some Experience With That And Stopped Fighting Had To Go Make Amends To That Old timer boy that was humbling and he enjoyed it a whole bunch and he's a good friend today and we like to laugh about that it just goes to show you half the time I you know you think you know what's going on but you don't know nothing yeah I mean so so as we discovered the principles by which the individual alcoholic could live so we had to evolve principles by which the AA groups and AA as a whole could survive and function effectively. So I don't fight with the traditions or concepts anymore, and I used to fight with them and disagree with them, and that's a whole other conversation but I don' fight with it anymore. I comply with the conditions. I respect my elders and I respect AA's experience. And not that I don''t ask questions I do and there's been times where I haven't agreed but I've always been encouraged by sponsorship that it's okay to question question everything don't be afraid to question everything and have your experience so those are some of the things in there that really mean a lot to me the last paragraph on on that forward to the second edition it says upon therapy for the alcoholic himself we surely have no monopoly well i didn't like that because i think we're everything you know what i mean and nobody else is getting it like we're getting it and uh really arrogant about that yet it is our great hope that all those who have as yet found no answer may begin to find one in the pages of this book and will presently join us on the high road to a new freedom so if you want we have do what we do if you've tried everything and nothing worked then we may have an answer for you if uh you know if me going to the evangelical and i got saved if that had worked that's where I'd be today but that that didn't work for me if good therapy worked I'd still be a regular therapy person God knows I love to talk about myself you know that would be fun we could help keep delving into the crevices of my psyche you know and discover uncharted territory I could really smart you know so but if that worked if that solved my problem that would be the message I would carry and that's where I would be um it's taking the steps out of Hazelton had solved my problems that's the message i would carry in that's what i would be doing and then again this is my experience there's a lot of people in a that have different experience that's valid you know i can get so arrogant with mine that i think that they're all doing it wrong because they don't do it this way and my gosh i used to get into some yelling matches about that here's a great example my husband does not do what i do and we used to have knock down drag outs i mean we would are you for six hours i'm not joking for six hours on a line in the big book on what it meant you know like i was a believer he well they've come around now which i'm very happy about because i knew i was right all along but for a long time with the belief that he was sponsored in is you do one through nine once and then you live in 10 11 and 12. there's nothing wrong with that if If that's what works, that's fine. I haven't met too many people. Maybe that's true if you can practice 10, 11, and 12 perfectly or really regular so stuff isn't building up or whatever. I'm just not there yet. But we would get in an argument on semantics on when it says regular house cleaning or whatever that word, regular inventory. Six-hour long arguments. It was fun to be in our house. um so you know and i remember talking to don and he's like what do you care what he believes it works for him he's sober he's helping other drunks he's effective in his home group he tries to live this way what do they do because i gotta be right and if you don't believe what i believe then i'm threatened by you i'm afraid of you what a bunch of horseshit so um so you know let it go not everybody's going to do what you do and who cares what they do anyway what's your experience carry your experience let people have their own experience they're not aa is not going to fall apart you know which is what i would think they're killing aa you know so upon therapy for the alcoholic aaa surely has no monopoly and we don't um there are alcoholics out there that have sobered up in the church and that works for them um and i it's not my place to judge that if that worked for me that's where i'd be but it didn't work for me this is what worked for me so i love that if you have as of yet found no answer we got one for you um so doctor's opinion is this right going through the book this way is everybody okay with this okay um i'm just kind of pulling out stuff that meant a lot to me um i'm not gonna go word for word the question that was asked to me in that that last paragraph was i personally know scores of cases who were of the type with whom other methods had failed completely or am i an alcoholic whom other methods fail completely well yes i am camille said we'll list them out for me and so you know i started talking about the therapy relationships jobs geographics raising sheep yeah, medication all of the things that I brought to bear that failed I am the type with whom other methods fail completely that fact that other methods fail completely is of extreme medical importance because of the extraordinary possibilities of rapid growth inherent in this group They may mark a new epoch in the annals of alcoholism. These men may well have a remedy for thousands of such situations. I love that line because all my life, and I carried it right into AA, I'm different than you. And the great thing about AA is it doesn't really matter where you came from, what your background is, short, tall, skinny, heavy, gay, straight, black, white asian atheist agnostic religious whatever we don't care doesn't matter um you went to jail you didn't go to jail you know all the things that i would well i'm different because of this my problems worse because of you know this all the things that I use to separate myself or why I'm sicker than you why this won't work for me and it says for thousands of such situations doesn't matter who you are the the uh directions are the same for me today on how to recover as they were for bill wilson who was a what was he protestant where was he i don't know you know stockbroker dude in the 30s with you know a lot of religious education that's not me i didn't grow up that way I can go to war all that stuff thousands of such situations so I don't need to separate myself anymore and that's a kind I found that's a conscious choice that I make it's just a conscious choice and just give up so I can rely absolutely on anything they say about themselves and I was asked are you willing to rely absolutely on what the directions that they're going to give you. And I said, yeah, because I'm hopeless. Can I close those doors? Because I keep listening to those kids running out there. Yeah, we can open windows. it's toasty thanks so understanding this allergy and having this explained to me and man when I never read the doctor's opinion I was like whatever you know Dr. Schmachter and you know sponsorship is like well this is the diagnosis of your problem so let's go read it and you know before I went to go meet with Camille she's like start reading a big book and all this other stuff and in that big book meeting that was a part of I'd started to read some of it and I didn't get it you know what I mean It was until I sat down with somebody and they shared their experience with what had been written that I really started to get it. And I was like, oh, oh! That's what they mean. That's who they are. That's how it is. It just brought everything together for me. It was a really exciting time for me in my sobriety. I really starting to understand that I belong here, that this is my home. so it's as though we work out our solution on the bottom says though we work out a solution as on the spiritual as well as altruistic playing we favor hospitalization for the alcoholic who is very jittery or befogged that was hammered into me me. Hammered, hammered, I was not allowed to hide out in the big book at all. The expectation was you get through these steps, I expect you to go find some drunks and help them. They demanded that from me. And they also demanded respectability which, you know, took a little while but they demanded that that was the condition I needed to comply with. And it has been – that is what I have done. And because of that willingness and just doing this and that being expected of me that I had to go do it even when I didn't feel like it. I really understand what it means to be inconvenienced by Alcoholics Anonymous. I mean, that was a beat into my head that you have to get out and carry this message. You can't sit in your home group or in a workshop and navel-gaze with this stuff, which is what I like to do because I love stuff that satisfies the mind. Love it. I used to be in constant inventory with this stuff. I mean if I stubbed my toe, oh my God, I've got to write inventory. You know, I got a little upset with somebody. Oh my God, I've got to write inventory. I mean, I was constantly writing inventory. Some of that was good, but it was going overboard. I'd started to navel gaze and I was starting to use inventory to try to manage my life. And Don said, you've got open up for business. You've got get out of inventory and open up your business because you're shutting down. You're missing it. You're messing it. So, I've got to actively take this stuff out and so we, you know, actively carry meetings to correctional facilities, treatment facilities. My home group is very active in carrying the message out. We don't sit in our home group and study the book. put legs on it that's been that's I think why we why we've grown that meeting was started there was a I think there was five or six of us that started the jaywalkers and we've got an awful reputation too it's great but that meaning is now over 150 people on Friday night and we are at when people come they're like the energy in this room is amazing um the stuff that you guys are talking about is amazing and we just grab people and we run like we're going we're coming to this commitment we're gonna go carry the message here right i mean we get out into the world we don't it's easy to stay in and judge which is what i used to do all the time and then i was like i'm not judging i'm just observing and reporting back there's no you know but i but i was i got you know you're not doing it right so um that i gotta work out my solution we do this together and i do it individually on the spiritual plane as well as the altruistic plane i've got to get busy being of service to other of people. And I love the stuff that's in here. I mean, that was like on the next page when it talks about we doctors have realized for a long time that some form of moral psychology was of urgent importance to alcoholics, but its application presented difficulties beyond our conception. What with our ultra-modern standards, our scientific approach to everything, we are perhaps not well equipped to apply the powers of good that lie outside our synthetic knowledge The first time that that was read to me, you know, I heard it. And then Joe, Joe Hawk, you knows, changed some of those words around in his way, in his wonderful way, and it brought it absolutely home to me about human power, that human power is absolutely not enough. And that's why when I was doing that training in that correctional facility on victims' rights, if you're a victim advocate, if you, you Know, it's moral psychology. If I help you to understand the consequences of your actions, you won't do it anymore. But that doesn't work for people like us. So when they change that around, that's some form of spiritual awakening. Yeah? I just wanted to comment on that. I do a lot of correction stuff. And actually, Lou and I were just talking about this. They do the behavioral modification out there, and they teach it. And in a big book group, i tell them if that works for you then wonderful go with it that's great but if you're like me that never will you'll understand all that but you won't have the power to be able to carry it out exactly and then join us you know but try that yeah yeah and that's so true the power carried out lack of power is absolutely our dilemma absolutely um god there's so much good stuff in here i love this thing frothy love that word worthless it's worthless frothy emotional appeal seldom suffices the message which can interest and hold these alcoholic people must have depth and weight it must and that's true the thing that gets my attention is something with depth and weight um frou-frou stuff i just don't i don't respond to at all um and that's i think too why camille was she was a mean old you know what i'm saying and um and i hurt her because she she had depth and weight and uh she was just right up in there she was not patting me on the tutu telling me everything was going to be okay um she told me the truth she told me the truth um so i love that word frothy and you know whether it's coming from myself or other people you know i'm gonna change i'm going to be different it's going to be different tomorrow i mean just like what tom was talking about i can talk about that all day long but i don't have the power to do it um i might be able to change for a couple of days and even in sobriety i still have that power i remember reading emmett fox going this is the shiznit and i'm changing i'm gonna start doing this right now and uh couldn't do it i think you know i think the best i've ever gotten was a couple of days with that stuff i i don't even have the power live a good life a spiritual life So, I don't have that kind of power either. And I used to try to manufacture spiritual experiences. That was fun. That doesn't work. What I found out is that God's gifts and grace are... They're just given. It's not something that can be earned. And I was always busy earning it, being a good girl for God because that's what I thought you had to be. And something that helped me dispel that belief was I realized that when I got sober, when I was given the gift of sobriety, there was nothing redeeming going on in my life at all. Nothing. I was not a good person. I wasnot a nice person. I wasn't a goodperson. I wasnahtaniceperson. I was leading a very ugly life and I was given this gift from my creator so I don't have to be good for God at my worst I was giving a gift I didn't earn it I didn'y do anything I just asked for help I was talking to Tom yesterday about a recent experience I had and it kind of blew me away and it came out of the blue and then it left out of the blue but it changed me dramatically and it was a gift I started waking up in the mornings and you know I'm trained up appropriately now that when I wake up my first thought is God it's the first thing that comes to mind and so I wake up in god and um and i'm not even going to be able to describe this to you but i'm going to try i started having this very intimate conversation and experience with my creator i have never experienced anything like it um it was so much love it was the closest i can describe is like i was talking to a lover but there was nothing sexual about it it was the closest most intimate exchange i have ever experienced in my life and that was going on every morning for about two weeks and i wasn't allowed to tamper with it thank god because after it was really strange because i would wake up in the morning and this would just start happening um and i'd lay there and this conversation and this caressing of spirit was going on and um and then i get on about my day and didn't remember a thing about it and then the next morning it was happening again and i wasn't talking to anybody about it it's like i didn't even remember it happened after it happened i think that was god protecting the experience um and i went on for two weeks and then it left even after it was done it took a while before I talked about it but what came out of that experience for me was a when I talked to God it was always God higher power that kind of thing I started referring to God as father and I never talked about God in that way and started experiencing just these tremendous amounts of compassion for other people that I never never had an understanding of our own weakness and frailty and brokenness in all of us i didn't ask for that i mean i didn t i wasn't doing anything different there was anything that i did that earned that thing that happened it just showed up and i wish it's like was there something magic that i did because i want to do it again and they'll have to wait 13 years 14 years for this to show up again what do i have to do you know i mean it was incredible it was the hell in the heart totally where our creator is and um it was just unbelievable so i don't think i have to be good for anything or good for god i've been given these gifts without asking um and i didn't have to make it happen which is what i've tried to do all my life i'm going to make it happen and uh just don't have to do that and it's uh to me too it speaks to we just cease fighting we just live this way you know i'm done fighting i just i give myself completely to the simple prayer and the best i can at daily time and just learn how to look we were talking about dinner how i grow in effectiveness and understanding of this this spiritual life um i'm letting that unfold so there's a little experience for you Okay, whew! I'm over-clipped. So, at the bottom of that...oh! Where were we? were we oh frosty yeah are we done with frosty oh no i love this promise this is one of the best in the whole world and all big book in nearly all cases their ideals must be grounded in a power greater than themselves if they are to recreate their lives that's some powerful stuff right there recreate your life I am by nature a very fearful, limiting person. This is all about lack of fear and this is about going out there and doing your heart's desire and letting your spirit sing. Doing what you were intended to do and you'll be given the power to do it. I love this. This is what has happened in my life. And I didn't believe it at first. I thought it was A.A. Foo-Foo Voodoo. But I was willing to take the action, even though I hadn't had the experience. You know, it's like I want... You know I hear people talk about this happened and this happened. It was great, it was great. I want to know that it's going to work out and I want know how it's gonna work out and I want to know what it's going to look like, and then I'll do it. And there is a complete opposite of that with faith, which is we just do this stuff and however you know how it's gonna work out, but it's gotta be great. Because I like to control everything, I want something to do with that and I will always shortchange myself, always. And I always have. but this is amazing I've had amazing experiences with this promise it's beautiful all you do is ground my ideals my beliefs and they say it's a must if you only have to do what we do just surrender to it it's good way to go don't fail ground your ideals great things will come to pass Don had me right out of vision a ground in my ideals, what is the vision for my life what is my mission and I did that with God I was very fearful you know because I want to rule the world, I really do you know I want to prove to the world that I'm important and that I am somebody I want everybody to pay attention to me and think I'm the cat's meow And, you know, if you want to worship and adorn me, that's good too. And I'll take it. And real crazy sick stuff, but it's there. But if I'm grounding my ideals, I don't know how to explain it. If I'm growing my ideals and I'm out there being of service, because I have been presented with opportunities to do things and go places that on paper someone like me should not be able to do or go. So this stuff is very true, and the stuff that I wrote out in my vision has come to pass. And it's everything in every area of my life and more. And that can be scary. Don said to me one time, Valerie, alcoholics fear success more than they do failure. And that's very true for someone like me. I think there's some poem out of, I don't know if Nelson Mandela wrote it or something. You know what I'm talking about? What is that poem? I don't know, but it is right up my... Oh, okay. Was it Nelson who said it? He read it. Like, let your light shine. Do not be afraid. Yeah, that. You know, and I'm afraid of that stuff. I can get afraid of it. And we were talking about that the other day. I can be afraid of my own greatness of what it is that God wants me to do. And my ego can get a hold of that and do some really nasty stuff with it. I'm not doing a very good job of explaining this. Am I? Oh, okay. Cool. Cool. So in some ways that has scared me that there's real power here. It can be frightening. I can be afraid of my own light. And it's my hope that I can just continue to be a demonstration and grow with that and not be afraid. You know, and it's kind of funny that I get afraid of that because I've been given the power to take care of and be responsible with what has been given to me and the responsibilities that have been given to me. So why I think it's going to be different, I don't know. But that's something I'll think about at three in the morning. But I love that. That's one of my favorite promises in the big book. Well, I don' t know if it's a promise, but I've made it into one. There's that word again, altruistic. I love dat word. At the bottom it says, Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. Absolutely, that's why I drank. It was the magic, man. I loved it. Loved it, loved it, and I didn't care the price I had to pay. I was willing to pay it. The sensation is so elusive. It's such magic that while they admit it as injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false And isn't that true? I love it when I heard somebody say, and I'm going to say a naughty word again, but I'm not going to do it. Denial is just, you know, a pushy word for us. We're delusional, man. Delusional. Now that's got some depth and weight behind it. and we are what I think is going on is not what's going on but I really think it's going on I really do I believe my lies thoroughly convinced convinced absolutely convinced that things are a certain way. I am delusional. I was delusinal about my drinking and I have been delusonal about a lot of things sober. A lot of things. I mean, I used to be paranoid as hell. I used think people were out to get me. That people were conspiring against me. I mean it was nuts. It's like a squirrel on amphetamines up there. I heard this one guy say one time, it's a hamster on the wheel up there. The hamster's dead, but the wheel's still going. I roll out, the hamster is dead, but the rule is still turning, you know? That's my mind. And to me, my alcoholic life, drunk or sober, untreated seems entirely normal. untreated alcoholism can seem entirely normal to me it was normal to me to lie, it's normal normal to be able to normal to me to steal normal to me to take from people that they owed it to me that the world owed it to me I had a roommate that had gotten in a car accident and she was living with me, I really believed that when she got her settlement she owed me some of that money. I really believed that. Just a complete where is mine and you owe me. Give it to me. Because I've been nice to you. I gave you a place to live. You're a loser. I gave your place to live that's what i'm thinking on the inside but on the outside i'm nice and kind so i can get what i want which is some money out of you when you get your settlement are we even really self-seekers even when trying to be kind and i was sober and i believed that through and through that was the truth and I'd live my whole life that way everybody owed me something and if I didn't get it I was going to take it from you did you get your money? no! no she was actually the last woman to call the cops on me I had to smack her down I got really upset had a small temper tantrum um and she actually was at um you know and i you know went back and of course made amends to her and i ended up owing her financial amends yeah there's one for you um and i paid that money back to her and i made aments she um she still uh she was in a for a while she was naa then she left. Now she's kind of doing Al-Anon. I mean, and her life is empty. It's really sad. It is good friends with a guy that's staying with us right now, Will. She's good friends with Will, and last weekend the winner and I sponsor did a roast for me, and she came. um she's terrified of me um and i wish there was something more that i could do and all i can do now is be kind to her and it's no problem doing that but i can see the the she's got fear all over her it's heartbreaking and i was right there with her at a different point and just how much things have changed in my life and how much hers has gone backwards. So anyway, so drunk or sober, on my own, my best advice is I got weird thinking. That's why they say we've got to have a psychic change because nobody could have talked me out of that belief. No one. I was convinced it was true. so you know good sponsorship is important having somebody who tells you the truth is important but i that that change that has to happen in depth has to come from a power greater than myself because no human power can provide it i've got a woman i sponsor right now he's got a little nasty food obsession going we all tell her hey um you need to eat you know you're way too skinny she thinks we're out to get her. She really believes this. When she looks in the mirror, she thinks she's fat. And her clothes are falling off of her. You know, we've done inventory and we've, we're, we've gone the stuff and until she's done with it, there's not anything, doesn't matter how much, how many of us that are around her that know her and love her say, something's not right here. just like with our drinking I was told all the time you got a problem, you got a problem I didn't hear that what I heard was something different and it's the same thing with her and her little obsession that she's got going on with herself and food right now she doesn't hear it she thinks we're all out to get her and what she sees and perceives as something that's a lie but she's delusional about it so It's powerful stuff. You have to have a psychic change. I cannot produce that. I cannot bring that on. If I could, I wouldn't need a spiritual way of life. If I couldn't produce that on my own. I wouldn' t need you people. I wouldn''t need these steps, these exercises. I could just poof myself. But I can't poof myself. And that's what it talks about. One feels it's something more than human power on the next page. One feels that something more than human powers needs to produce the essential psychic change has to happen. Has to happen and I love this I'm going back and forth but it says you know we're restless, irritable and discontent yes I am I'm edgy unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks that's what happened to me when I would take a few drinks immediately The, yeah baby, I'm ready. Let's go. Now I can play. Sober, since alcohol isn't there, not going to take medication, you know, not gonna do marijuana maintenance or whatever, where do I find my sense of ease and comfort now? that I'm sober. Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day.