Terri S. on Long-Term Sobriety, Service, and the Agnostic’s Higher Power — Terry S.

Welcome back, my friends, to A.A. Recovery Interviews.
I'm your host, Howard L., and I'm an alcoholic.
Sober since January 1st, 1988, one day at a time.
I'm grateful you've joined us.
A.A. Recovery Interviews is the podcast where Alcoholics Anonymous members from around the world
share their extraordinary stories of experience, strength, and hope.
My guest on today's show, Terry S., first overdosed on pain meds when she was only six years old.
Living in a Brooklyn apartment with her father, who was a heavy drinker,
and her mother, who was chronically ill, suffering with Crohn's disease,
Terry had been given a tablet for stomach pain, likely exacerbated by her dysfunctional home life.
Reasoning that if one pill eased her pain, the whole bottle would be even better,
Terry found and swallowed all of her mother's pain tablets.
She somehow survived, but the die was cast for a life dominated by drugs and alcohol.
By 14, she was actively using and drinking to escape the harsh realities of her home life.
By her late teens and 20s, she was flaunting an ability to drink and drug more than her peers.
Very much the functional alcoholic, Terry continued drinking and using largely without major consequences,
but her life was slowly spiraling downward.
By her early 40s, at the point at which she was able to drink and drink again,
she was able to drink and drink again.
She was able to drink and drink again.
She was able to drink and drink again.
At the point at which her alcoholism and drug addiction were winning the battle,
Terry was faced with the cold reality that if she didn't stop,
she was going to lose both her husband and her job.
Making the right decision at the right time,
Terry finally made it into AA in 2001,
until a week-long slip on pain meds in 2003.
She quickly redoubled her efforts in the program through intensive work with her sponsor.
She also became actively involved in service work for her group,
which she had been doing for a long time.
She has a long-term commitment to making sure her mom and dad and her family are safe,
which she credits with helping her stay firmly attached to AA.
Over the years, Terry has made regular meetings a mainstay of her recovery.
She's also sponsored many women in the program as insurance against that next drink.
In the midst of working a good AA program and passing on to others those many gifts of sobriety she has achieved,
Terry has fought her own battle with the same Crohn's disease that afflicted her mother.
Fortunately, she has responsibly handled the medical interventions necessary for living with that disease.
disease while maintaining complete accountability to her sponsor and fellow AA members. Terry's
ability to stay sober through AA has very much informed her daily battle with Crohn's disease
and vice versa. For those recovering alcoholics who face similar battles, Terry's experience
speaks of hope for living with whatever health challenges come our way. I'm grateful Terry
agreed to share her remarkable story of healing and courage on this episode of AA Recovery
Interviews. So please enjoy the next 60 minutes with my friend and AA sister, Terry S.
Hi, I'm Terry. I'm an alcoholic. Hi, Terry. I really appreciate you joining me today
on AA Recovery Interviews. It's a real pleasure to see you outside of the Zoom meeting that you
and I go to once a week. And I've gotten to hear you share on there a little bits and pieces of
your story. But you're joining me from Miami, aren't you? Actually, Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
I actually am.
I actually went on my honeymoon to Fort Lauderdale from Texas.
And you stayed married.
Yeah, it was amazing. I mean, that was 35, over 35 years ago.
Good for you.
I appreciate you taking the time to do this today.
My pleasure.
You've been doing a lot of service for that Zoom meeting. But before we move along,
I wanted to just ask you, how long have you been sober?
Actually, my sobriety date is the same day as my birthday, which is August 9th, 2003.
Wow. Okay. So you have coming up on 19 years.
Correct.
Amazing. That is pretty wild.
And you've been doing some great service work on that Zoom meeting that you and I
know each other from. How is being of service in the Zoom age feel to you? And how does it
affect your quality of your sobriety? Well, to be perfectly honest, Howard,
this whole pandemic has been a silver lining to me.
Has it?
Yeah. Well, unfortunately, I had to postpone my interview with you last week due to some
chronic pain I suffer with.
Sometimes. And the Zoom, you know, I became the little old lady that brought the pillow
to the meeting to sit on to be comfortable. Yeah, Zoom came along just in time for me to
be really comfortable at home. I did start my home group meeting on Zoom when we figured out
how to do that. And so Zoom has been a lifesaver to me. And it brought me to you.
Yeah.
And countless others internationally. So I absolutely love it.
Isn't it marvelous?
To be able to use the technology. Somebody reminded me of something that I had completely
forgotten. And that is somewhere in the forward to the fourth edition, there's something that
talks about talking modem to modem. And it hadn't even occurred to me that the sort of
things we've been doing with Zoom were already thought of back in 2001.
Exactly.
But I remember going to the international convention in San Antonio or Atlanta. They
have a room there.
There were the international, the loners in AA via the computer. So Zoom wasn't new for AA,
certainly. Now, do you go to fewer or more meetings now than you did before the pandemic?
Right now, I'd say it's about the same. It's probably like four meetings a week,
if not more, sometimes less.
Are you getting out to live meetings?
I went to three live meetings since the rooms did open up. And it was great. It was different.
And
I'm just much more comfortable at home. I really am, especially now that it's resurfacing,
resurging with the pandemic. Who knows? Who knows? I'm comfortable. I'm comfortable. You know,
Howard, I'm a loner who happens to love people. So somebody pointed out a long time ago when we
started this and we would do FaceTime actually on Facebook before Zoom. They would say this is a
virtual meeting. There's nothing virtual about this. This is live. You know, there you are,
there you are. I'm seeing you. We're here live.
Yeah, we're communicating back and forth in real time, one-on-one, person-to-person. Yeah.
I have a pretty open attitude towards it. I go to three or four live meetings a week, but I
also go to three or four Zoom meetings a week because these are people who I've gotten to know
and love along the way. And it's always great to be able to interview them. In fact, I think I sent
you the little list of all the people from that particular meeting that we go to.
Great.
And I'm not going to name them.
Because I don't want them to get overwhelmed in case people want to go to that. So I usually
keep that anonymous. But that particular meeting, we've had, I don't know, six or eight people from
that meeting do their, tell their stories in this interview format. And it's worked out quite well.
And I've listened to quite a few of them. It's great.
Oh, good.
It's great.
Good. I'm glad to hear that. So let me ask you, we're looking back at August of 2003.
What was happening just prior to you getting to AA?
Was it a sudden entry into the program? Was it gradual? What was going on?
Well, to be honest, it was really gradual. I was introduced to Alcoholics Anonymous in the early
80s through a really good friend of mine who decided to get sober and knew, rightfully so,
that I could use a seat at AA, but would never suggest it to me. And I missed her company. I'm
like, where are you going? What are you doing? You know, like I miss my partying buddy. And
she kind of drifted away.
But we remained good friends. And then I moved to a building. And the guy that lived upstairs from
me, when I'd run into him in the hallway downstairs, the lobby, he said, do you want to go
to a meeting? I didn't even know this guy. And I'm like, why is he, you know, now this is in the
90s, early 90s. I'm like, why is he saying I need a meeting? But actually, I came into Alcoholics
Anonymous in 1994 for myself to get the boyfriend back.
Uh-huh. Okay.
Which I did.
Uh, did the first three steps, got on my knees and did that third step prayer without being
struck by lightning or God and never continued with the steps. And after about six months,
never really continued with the meetings.
Was that an ultimatum that you were given either go to AA or we break up type thing or
what made you decide in 94 to go?
I knew that I had lost the best thing that was probably ever going to come into my life.
I mean, he's a terrific man. We're still together today. And he was a blind date in 93. And thank
God I brought my seeing eye dog. And my seeing eye dog was able to tell me, you know, you don't
want this one to go, you know? So, yeah. So I did it to get him back.
You saw that for yourself. It wasn't, that was something you came to on your own as opposed
to him saying, Terry, we got to talk or you've got to stop or slow down.
He doesn't like confrontation. And he,
he just quietly disappeared after three months of dating. And it dawned on me that he's just
drifting out. I had to track him down and go, what's the matter? What happened? And he said,
we're just not on the same page. And that's when I called that guy that lived upstairs and said,
I'm ready to go to that meeting.
Now, this is in 1994 that you're talking about, right?
Yes, correct.
So looking back, did you perceive your behavior as an alcoholic?
Or maybe a problem drinker or a heavy drinker? Did you perceive that at the time that you
went into AA in 94? Or were you going in simply because you thought it was the best way to get
him back? I think a little of both. It was already not working anymore. By the time of my
incomprehensible demoralization, I was taking an enormous amount of Oxycontin. And, and that was
just to stop shaking. That had an, a really, a really, a really, a really, a really, a really,
it wasn't yet when I first got sober in 94 to get him back and to maybe curtail my drinking or
drug using. But I did stay with the program. I stayed completely dry. I say dry because I didn't
continued with the steps or a sponsor for about 14 months. And yeah, we were together on a beautiful
day in Coconut Grove, rollerblading for the first time ever. Sky was incredibly blue and having a
great time.
And we decided to stop for lunch in the Grove and I open up the menu and on the left-hand side of the
menu are drinks, but they're called painkillers. One, two, or three. And I looked across the table
at him and I'm having a great day. I wanted to get better. And I said, you know, honey,
I could really use a painkiller number three. And what does he say? He's not one of us. Honey,
you've been good. Have one. And I downed two of those. And within a matter of,
15 minutes, it became like he was Charlie Brown. Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. His lips were moving.
And all I could hear in the background was, okay, what did Alcoholics Anonymous do to me?
I didn't even feel that. I just drank two drinks and I'm not even buzzed. Yeah,
that's how my thinking went for the rest of the day.
So in the 14 months that you had been around AA, you'd been dry.
Doesn't sound like you were participating very much in the program or doing much of the work.
No, I was not doing service. I was,
it was more of a social thing when I'd show up.
Yeah, I get that. But yet, even if all you did was just go to meetings and didn't do much of
anything else, you'd still be hearing the message over and over and over again in meetings and from
people you hang out with. You know, it's that first drink, stay away from that first drink.
As you were reaching for that painkiller number three, what crossed your mind?
I probably should not be doing this. That's what crossed my mind. But I had no,
none of that foundation that we hear of being a painkiller.
Building in AA. I may have had a leg, maybe even two legs, but that triangle just was not there.
And I had no tools in my pocket to stop me. That mental obsession, you know, the desire
kicked in and then the mental obsession just and compulsion got out of control.
Within days, I was asking my neighbor for a painkiller for this or that. And that led to
a seven year relapse. Seven years. Yeah. A struggle to get back in. I just was out
there. I was out there. I was out there. I was out there. I was out there. I was out there.
I shouldn't say a struggle to get back in until I really hit that incomprehensible demoralization
and called work in a blackout. And this was 2001 in May that I'm really sick and I need help.
Couldn't stop. Yeah. As in, I can't stop drinking or using. Right. Of course, in those days,
most HR departments and EAPs were pretty circumspect about working with people who
had drug and alcohol problems. That was kind of the heyday of treatment centers and everything
else. Did you get any help? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
Did you go to treatment after that? I did wind up in a four day detox because
that's all my insurance would cover. Oh, wow. But I really I was managing a chiropractic
office at the time. We did have an internist working with us at the time. And again,
I came to work and in a blackout, basically called work about an hour later because that's
how long I lasted on a Monday. And I said, I'm in trouble. I need help. And a little girl
called me back and said, and I didn't even like her. She was she always got things done in the
office. And I didn't like that. I was like, how do you do that? How do you get that done,
finished, completed? But she said she offered to take me to the hospital. Yeah. And that miracle
started happening when I wound up in that detox. So you detoxed for four days. And what was the
next step you took after the detox? Right back to that same group I went to in 1994. Now they had
moved from the end of the street to the middle of the strip mall, but they were still there. And I
got there early because I do like to show up early. And there were no cars in the parking
lot at first. And I'm mind you, I'm 30 pounds lighter than I am today. Pretty thick and could
barely stand up. The door was open. The circles and the triangle were on the window. And I said,
what happened? There's no more alcoholics here. And there was a guy painting the three
minutes.
In the bed on the wall. And he took one look at me and he saw like the deer in the headlight look.
And he said, don't worry, you're in the right place. And he sat me down. He made me a cup of
coffee, made me feel at home. And I didn't even question. I just felt safe being there. It was
like my shoulders came down and I'm like, OK, I didn't even start to go. Where is everybody?
But I just felt comfortable sitting there. What happened was I arrived a half hour early,
right before the meeting started.
Yes. And most people don't show up till 10 or 5 minutes before the meeting actually starts.
Right.
Which never made sense to me. I always enjoyed the fellowship so much that I like to get
the meetings early.
Me too.
So that was in 2001 that you found yourself back in AA. How did you feel about going back
to AA? Was there a sense of having been beaten? Or did you feel desperation? What were your
feelings around going back?
To be perfectly honest, Howard, I've always been scared of getting beaten. So I've been
very, very smart about it. So when I took the date, I didn't have any fear of getting beaten.
Howard, I felt such relief. I felt such relief. I felt hope for the first time, which I always
heard around the message of Alcoholics Anonymous. I mean, I remember hearing the laughter of people
telling me their horrific stories and then going to Lums and having coffee and laughing about it
after. I want to get to where they are, where they could laugh about what I've just been through.
So there was a lot of hope and there was a lot of, thank God this monkey is off my back,
because by the time I did get back to the rooms, the obsession had been lifted. And when I got to
that meeting, the guy who set me up with the coffee, he indicated to the first woman that
walked into that room, why don't you go sit next to her? She's new. And that was unbeknownst to me.
She had white hair, these piercing blue eyes, seemed to be my age. And I knew I needed some
spiritual guidance.
Because I was always, I was this person without a God. I had a belief in something. I considered
myself agnostic always. And this time I was going to be a real willing agnostic. And I kept
tugging at her shoulder during the meeting. Would you sponsor me? Just her look. I had her look
along. Will you sponsor me? And then she finally said yes. And then after the meeting, she asked
me those three questions. She said, have you had enough? And I said, absolutely. She said,
are you willing to take suggestions? And I said,
most definitely. And then she said, how do you feel about God? And I went,
two out of three is not bad, is it? And she didn't laugh. But she immediately said to me,
what's your favorite color? And I said, blue. She goes, well, just for today,
anytime you see the color blue, you'll know God's with you. And again, my shoulders came down and I
was like, that's it? And she said, just for today, Terry, that's it. That's all you have to believe.
And I started driving.
I get chills every time I eat that because unfortunately, she did pass away from
cancer. And she gave me that blue God of my understanding that worked for a really long time.
Isn't it amazing how a good sponsor can turn you completely around? That's such a beautiful thing
to say to imagine anytime you see the color blue, that's God in the room or in your environment.
And oh, driving home from that,
I started noticing all the blue cars. I started noticing the fire hydrants in my area were
painted blue, blue caps. I said, oh, look at that, God's on the fire hydrant. You know, it's pretty
wild. Yeah, I love that. That's such a great, such a great story. So this is 2001, you came back,
but you mentioned that your sobriety date is actually in August of 2003.
Correct.
So what went on in the two years in between you coming back and the obsession being,
lifted and the need to come back in 2003?
Well, I was on that proverbial pink cloud of AA. I was immersed in my meeting. I was dragged into
service unwillingly, but I did it anyway. And I had a flare up with my Crohn's and I was in
severe pain. And my doctor, knowing that I was in recovery,
was kind of insistent that I take some pain meds along with Pregnizone, which is, oof,
miracle drug, but the side effects will kill you. My mother always used to say,
and my mother did pass away from Crohn's related illness at 52. So I was always battling with that.
What am I going to do about this? But he was going to put me in the hospital if I did not
take these painkillers and have me hooked up. So I went home on this pink cloud and I get the
prescription. My sponsor offered to hold them. And I'm like, no, I'm good. I'm good. And my
boyfriend offered to hold them. I'm like, I'm really good. But you know, Howard, I'm an alcoholic
and an addict. And I looked at the label and it said, take one to two every four hours. And being
such a good alcoholic, I took two immediately. Yeah, why not? Yeah, sure. And within a matter
of four hours, within a matter of 15 minutes, I should say, I'm looking at my watch going,
is it four hours yet?
And within a day, I was taking them as wanted instead of as prescribed.
And those were your recreational drug of choice, weren't they?
Along the lines of that, yes. Yeah.
So how far into your first stint at sobriety there? Well, not counting the early 90s, but
let's say in 2001, how long after you came back did that occur that you slipped?
Two years, right after the two-year mark.
So right after the two-year mark, you came back.
I was struck with pain in 2003. So that's, my sponsor knew that I was going to have to pick
up another white ship, the fellowship that I was in, my group members knew. But because of the way
I looked on the medication with the prednisone, you know, being extremely puffy, they would come
up to me and say, oh, don't worry, Terry, this is medically necessary. And I said,
you know, I know what I'm doing is wrong. You know, I have no problem picking up a new,
starting my day over. And my birthday was rolling around. And I said, you know what?
I may have gotten sober a day before or so my birthday, but I said, let's pick up a white
ship on my birthday. And it's been the best gift I've ever given myself or received.
Yeah, that is a beautiful gift. So if we rewind a little bit,
what was going on in your early life, let's say in your family of origin,
that paved the way for you to become a alcoholic slash addict?
Good question. Where it always starts, isn't it? What I hear mostly in the rooms anyway.
I'm the youngest of three, middle class family, Brooklyn, New York, Jewish. I always say it's
not my fault. I was just born that way. Yeah. Yeah. It's not my fault. I was just born that way.
And look,
I don't know which came first, the alcoholism, the depression, the Jewish guilt, who knows?
Yeah.
And my father drank heavily and my mother took pills heavily. As a matter of fact,
I had my first overdose when I was six years old.
Six years old.
Yes. My mother gave me this magic little pill, which stopped my stomach from hurting because
I had diarrhea and she had Crohn's.
And unbeknownst to me, where she kept the pills was on top of the medic, actually in the kitchen
by the sink in the cabinet. And I knew, Howard, at the age of six, if that one little pill made
me feel that good, the whole bottle probably gonna make me feel a lot better. And I climbed up,
took the whole bottle, proceeded to just sit outside the kitchen. My mother was busy in the
room doing whatever she was doing.
And I don't know what time later she found me laying against the wall. And I finally confessed
to her, I took the whole bottle.
Oh, my God.
Now, believe it or not, her doctor said, well, it will pass. How many were left in the bottle?
I can't imagine to this day that a mother didn't drag the kid to the hospital and pump the stomach,
but that wasn't done. And later that night, from what my sister told me, it was a neighbor,
that was a doctor that saved my life. He said, you must keep her awake. You must keep her drinking
coffee. She has to get this out of her system and don't let her go to sleep. So for 24 hours,
they had me pacing around the house, up and downstairs, and people were coming over and
playing with her.
You're just a little kid at that time.
Yeah, but you want to hear something really wild. I had my first spiritual experience at that age
also. As I was laying on my parents' bed,
I could hear, and my face was down, and I could feel like a hand on my back.
And I swear I could hear people saying, we're losing her. We're losing her. And I got up from
the bed, this is all in my head, and I'm flying. I'm flying throughout the house, and I'm flying
through every room in that house. I see my brother sketching in his bed, and I'm just about to go
through the break front window of the house, and I feel these hands pull me back down,
onto the bed with a hand back on my back. And I guess I'm supposed to be here. Yeah, there's more
than one story like that, that I just got stupid lucky.
It's kind of an out-of-body experience, huh?
Oh, literally, physically, mentally, and spiritually, yes.
To have it that young in life, too.
And that was during my questioning years about God. I grew up in a predominantly
Jewish-Christian neighborhood, and I always wanted what they wanted. And I always wanted to be a
Christian. And I always wanted to be a Christian. And I always wanted to be a Christian. And I always
wanted to be a Christian. And I always wanted to be a Christian. And I always wanted to be a Christian.
Because they had the trees, the little keep, the little presents, and festive. And we had that
little lamp, which sometimes worked, sometimes didn't.
And you can only get so many menorahs before the thrill runs out.
Or dreidels.
Or dreidels.
Yeah, little dreidels.
I felt the same way when I was a kid. My next-door neighbor was Catholic, and they always had the
big tree, and they got all these giant presents. And my parents would always try and space it out,
eight small little gifts, you know, that meant nothing.
nothing right and uh yeah so if if i didn't resent being jewish when i was a kid i certainly didn't
find it very convenient you know so yeah and very solemn you know i remember we would my parents
would drive us to temple we weren't supposed to drive we were supposed to walk on the high
holidays and they would drive us but drop us off a block away to make it look like
that's why the hypocrisy was always like what is this god thing and i i would sit and i'm on i i
would swear we were all aliens yeah i would look up at the stores and go there's got to be more
life than just what's here and that was also at six years old well fortunately you were living in
a predominantly jewish area so you didn't have to cope with some of the things i had to cope with
when i was young when when
we lived in uh in ohio and we lived in a predominantly non-jewish neighborhood when i
was a kid and my brother my older brother he used to get chased and beat up all the time
and finally my folks got smart and they moved us to a predominantly jewish part of town
and that made all that made a lot of difference but you know when that's happening to you when
you're a little kid you you kind of put your own two and two together and you come up with some
kind of answer that usually means you start to feel agnostic
and uh that's exactly that's how it was for me sound like exactly so you're six years old you
have this od experience when do you recall that you first took a drink or drugs on your own of
your own desire to do it probably at the age of 14 i want to say aside from my brother trying to
get me high with pot 14 we started going out as kids and buying little bottles tequila sunrise
in a bottle
and md 2020 and uh yeah it tasted good coming going down but the cheese doodles coming up is
and uh yeah and i would come home with my head spinning and uh like oh when are we going to do
that again and uh and i was always the one in my group of friends who was experimental uh i i knew
i just never wanted to stop
but back then i'm in school and my parents home so it's only the weekends or you know whenever
anybody else was willing to party it left to my own devices i which i was quite often i did hit
my my parents especially my mother's pill cabinet growing older but you were the one in your group
that would be willing to experiment does that mean experiment with different drugs like uh
beyond pot to like cocaine or lsd or something like that yeah i mean i think it's it's it's it's
it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's
all of it the only thing i've never done is heroin i shouldn't say that i smoked heroin i never shot
up heroin i i have done everything and every time i've done it it's been to excess did consequences
begin immediately whenever it was that you started doing that or were they delayed in coming to some
big event happen you know harrod knowing what i know today about um living a well-examined life
it wasn't so much the physical
consequences is when i say you know i didn't work for person a person i didn't steal from
whether it was money from them merchandise time from showing up sick but the actual as far as car
wrecks and all that probably came along in my teens 20s yeah life experiences of like
stupid lucky how did i get out of this i never wound up in jail how did you get through school
were you a good student you know
if if grades were counted by how many days you showed up at school i never would have graduated
and and i graduated without reading a book cover to come yeah top third of my school as a matter of
fact we had the sats because somebody some yeshiva boy stole them from albany and started selling
them and i had the copies and got caught and i did get brought down at the age of 16 to the
brooklyn da's
office oh my goodness yeah that was pretty scary well so what was the outcome from that my mother
cursed them out from here till tomorrow and said how dare you bring my daughter without notifying
her parents and uh my my mother was a character my mother was uh beloved by many she was a great
friend but not the best mother but she uh nothing ever came of it i was supposed to be suspended and
she threatened to sue them and they did cancel the um the test that year
so were your parents involved in your life while you were doing all of this or were you kind of
staying out of contact with them at home and and other places my childhood was pretty much about my
brother who was a middle child manic depressive gay suicidal and my mother always trying to fix
him and my we're all exactly four years apart so i live in my sister's room with my sister who
really didn't want to be bothered by a little sister so we weren't close sure the closest one
i was to my brother but he was kind of um not mentally there most of the time and so when i
say i was left to my own devices as a kid like i don't remember one parent asking me if my homework
was ever done what what do you want to do when you grow up what do you want to be uh oh you're
so good at that oh you're so pretty like no encouragement with anything so i had no
ambitions as a kid to do anything i really didn't that's the kind of wiring the hard wiring that i
always talk about we get when we're young too young to be able to resist i have very much the
same kind of story although my family involved a lot of physical and uh you know a lot of yelling
and that sort of thing sounds like you had some issues with that as well i did and and um one way
it came out was with the crones you know when you stuff everything and you want to be that good kid
you don't want to rock the boat in the house and you know they have too many other things they
my my dad one wound up losing all of his money and was embezzling from the company and that's
how we wound up here in florida by the way it's like we sold the house and had to get out of town
kind of thing but no actually my um my parents friends their good graces and my grandmother
uh they schlepped my grandmother down to uh florida to help pay for the rent and we wound
up in a bedroom apartment and and again my mom was sick half the time my dad was with a drink
what am i gonna do and and i'm just like get me out of here and and you know running with the
fast crowd it was the cocaine 80s and um quaalude quaaludes drinking oh my god nightclubs and then
coming home and being very solemn i ran away from home during that period when she was very sick
and i was in hospital for about three months and i was in a hospital for about three months
and for about three months but um but then came back but just couldn't take it anymore huh
well it it started to smell like a hospital when i came home um it was very sad and when you can't
when you're a caretaker and you can't fix somebody and at the age of 26 i didn't know how to fix them
i would i would take her drugs i would take her to a doctor and take some of her
demerol before i
drove her to the doctor just to tolerate being there with her so
yeah so it was crazy crazy scene very crazy yeah that goes to the answer to most of our
questions i think no wonder i became an alcoholic and drug addict that escape especially to new
crowds of people did you receive what you needed interpersonally or with regard to your own
personal relationships did you receive that from the crowds you were running with or were you an
outsider
um you know i always felt like an outsider i mentioned earlier maloner who happens to love
people and it's so true i i don't mind my own company but i do love people and i could get
along with anyone when i'm out especially today i i always make sure i converse with somebody in
the store that's working and how are you doing today and and everybody always found it i've
been told i'm a good listener and i'm not a good listener and i'm not a good listener and i'm not a
good listener i'm not a good listener and i'm not a good listener and i'm not a good listener and i'm not
a good listener and i'm not a good listener and i'm not a good listener and i'm not a good listener and i'm not
a good listener and i'm not a good listener and i'm not a good listener and i'm not a good listener and i'm not
and I'm easy to talk to. But the bad part about that is you pick up a lot of needy people along
the way in doing that. So as I got older and maintain my sobriety, you know, especially with
sponsorship, it's like, I'm here to give you what I got on how to stay sober, but I'm not your
bank. I'm not your therapist. I'm not your lawyer. I get that. That's an, those are important
boundaries and lines to draw to, especially when we're talking about some of the neediness that
shows up in the program amongst people we know. So you told me about the period between teenage
and 26, which is when about the time your mom was really sick before she passed away.
Did you go on to school after high school or did you just move on with your life?
Well, considering we had just moved from Brooklyn, Florida, and I was working in the
garment center before we did.
That and basically came down here and I was like, well, this doesn't suck.
You know, like in Brooklyn and an apartment for the last year. And I opened up the doors to this
apartment where we're on the Bay and it's sunny and it's beautiful. And I spent the next year in
the sun sitting on the deck, collecting unemployment. And yeah, you know, I always
drifted from job to job until they caught on to whether I steal.
From them, whether I quit before they caught on. I worked in so many retail stores, a lot of
doctors. And there was a really scary time where I was calling in my own prescriptions. Yeah. Again,
I should have been in federal jail. So you were one of those who didn't get caught,
who somebody somewhere is doing your time because they did and you didn't.
We'll be right back.
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Were you a functional alcoholic? It sounds to me like you must have had to be if you could
steal and not get caught. But would you consider yourself a functional alcoholic drug addict?
Absolutely. Until that blackout in 2001.
That makes it really difficult, I think, because I was the same way.
I was functional. So nobody calls you on any of your issues. And as long as you show up and do a
reasonable job, nobody's too concerned. But it also means that that bottom that you got to hit
before you get into recovery is sometimes a longer way off. Did you find that to be the case as well?
Absolutely. I mean, and especially when you're likable. If people like you,
and you make them laugh, and they love having you around, they really look over a lot of the
misbehaviors and stuff. And actually, my boss, the chiropractor, when I would sit in his office
and cry, he goes, what's wrong with you? He goes, you're beautiful. People love you. You got
everything going for you. What's going on? I mean, did I tell him I'm drinking every day and I'm
abusing drugs all the time? No. Poor me, poor me.
Yeah, I get that. That's part of the problem of being an affable drunk or drug addict is that,
you know, there's nothing about your behavior
that would lead people to think you need some help. I mean, when you're a morose,
down-in-the-mouth drug addict or alcoholic and mean and nasty and everything, people know you
need help. But when you're affable and likable, people are willing to put up with you because
you're the entertainment for the evening. So at some point, that kind of game stops working for
you. At what point did you feel like you had exhausted all of the patience and tolerance
of your friends for your work?
Well, to be honest, I was isolating big time. The last year of my alcoholism, I was in a room.
I'd go to work. My boyfriend and I were not living together, so he didn't see what I was doing. He had
no clue what I was doing to get what I needed to get. And it became a vicious cycle of 24-7.
I mean, I could not stop what I was doing.
And at one point, I needed it just to function. And like I said, if it still worked,
I would not be here today talking to you. But there was no amount. Like when it tells us in
the big book, one is too many, a thousand never enough. It got to that point where it didn't
matter how much alcohol I had. It didn't matter how much Oxycontin I had. It wasn't working.
It wasn't that same first high or the party is now begun.
I mean, for seven years of my alcoholism, it was, I would have wanted to die. It wouldn't
have mattered if I woke up or not. It was more just existing than it was living.
Was there ever a time during that miserable period at the end where you reflected back on
that little six-year-old girl and the experience that you had?
I believe I did, because the question always came about, like,
you know,
with seeing everything that goes on in the world. And there's always been something ever since I've
been around a major catastrophe and a lot of hatred, a lot of bigotry. And, you know,
if there's a God, how can it be so cruel like this? And why do people, why do the good suffer
and the ones that really should don't? And yeah, so there would be questions of that. And that's
why I say when I did wind up in that, I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to die. I'm going to die.
And that's four-day detox. And I slept for a day and a half. So there's really only, what is that,
a day and a half of meetings that people brought in that I was going to. And if you ask me, Howard,
I would tell you that I felt like I was there for 28 days. I didn't want to leave. I didn't want to
leave. But that hand touched my shoulder, not the five other people in front of me when we were
leaving the lockdown. They said, you don't wait to get out of here. You don't wait to get out of here.
You don't wait to get a sponsor. Don't wait. And they didn't do that to the four people that just
left in front of me. So that's why that day when I went back to that room, that next day, I was
grabbing that woman by her shoulder. Would you sponsor me? And she had just had surgery on that
shoulder to remove some cancer. And she said, yes, I'll sponsor you. Please stop squeezing my
shoulder. I had surgery. Wow. So that was in? That was in 2001.
I wound up in detox, yes. Right. Now, when you got back in 2003,
what kind of contact had you had with your sponsor during that time? Were you still very much in
touch? Absolutely. So your slip was actually a very short period of time, huh? Exactly. It was
maybe a week or 10 days. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I'm trying to get the timeframes here because 2001
to 2003 sounds like you were out for two years, but actually you were working the program during
that 2001 to 2003. Yeah. So you were out for two years, but actually you were working the program
2003 period? Yeah. I never stopped going to meetings. I was still working. I was on that
pregnancy zone, on those painkillers. And when I started abusing them, I would tell my sponsor
and I would discuss with the meeting before the meeting, the meeting after the meeting that
I'm going to have to pick up another white chip. And people really didn't, aside from just seeing
me look like Elvis, they had no clue what was going on with me because not many,
except for my sponsor, maybe my inner circle knew what was going on. So my, my sponsor just said,
you know, you'll let me know when you're ready to do steps or again, and start your 90 and 90.
And I, I really didn't even have, I didn't even feel bad. Like when I hear people say,
I get very sad when I hear people say they lost that time, you know, not even from 94,
I didn't lose any of it. I willingly gave it up,
but I didn't lose the precious amount of information and knowledge that I got from
being there all that time. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you on that. In fact,
there's a, there's something that I say to people all the time. And that is Terry,
you have something I don't have. And that is you have the experience of having been in and
gone out and come back. I got sober 34 years ago and I haven't needed to go back out. Not that I
haven't wanted to, but just about the time that I wanted to, people would show up in meetings
or via my sponsor or something would happen where AA would kind of lasso me back into the middle.
But that's, I agree with you a hundred percent. That experience has not been lost. The question
is, can we learn from it and not let it happen again? Absolutely. And I have been put on pain
medication and I've lost the luxury of abusing them. Listen, that's a very slippery slope with a
lot of people. And I know this is a program of action and that's why I have the sponsor that I
have today, which is a very disciplined steps orientated sponsor. And I, I sponsor women and
they're the ones who always save me, Howard. I mean, especially during the pandemic when we
couldn't get out and the calls that I would get, just like you said, when you're questioning,
is this all worth it? And I would, I would get out of self because a sponsor was calling me,
uh, a problem, a new sponsor you had to meet on zoom would ask me to take them through the steps.
So that commitment of, yeah, I need to stay sober so I could be of service to others.
I don't know why this program works, but I know how it works because it tells me on page 58 of
the big book, they're in black and white. And if I continue to do that, like my sponsor suggests
on a daily basis, I mean, when at the, at 10 years to sobriety, I did work the steps again with a,
a new sponsor.
Who happens to be a friend of mine that I got sober with, who was a gentleman, uh, that I was
very friendly with. He moved out to California and I saw what he was doing with his life. And I said,
at 10 years of my sobriety, why am I still coming home and kicking the dog and beating up on my
husband? That's my, I'm treating everybody else good except the people who love me the most.
What's wrong with me? And I asked him to work the steps with me because I'm obviously missing
something.
And that's when my spiritual journey, my real spiritual journey began.
You kind of had a spiritual awakening at 10 years sober.
And continually since then.
And continually. That's really amazing. So when, when you came in, in 2003,
you started working with your sponsor. What were some of the other things that you
started to do over the growing term of your sobriety?
Well, it was always involvement, always having a job in AA, always having a home group because
I love the sayings.
I wear them like pearls. You know, if you don't have a home group, you're homeless. If you don't
have a sobriety date, you know, you're not sober. You know, what is that day? And those things meant
a lot to me and to always have a job in AA, you know, don't be that same thief that comes in and
takes everything and then just walks away with all the good. And, and the sad part is I feel bad
for the people that don't have the ability to give this to somebody else. And trust me, everybody's
got a job in AA and just showing up.
And meeting continually is bringing something. It's showing somebody that,
Hey, it works. They're still here.
I always insist with the men that I sponsor, that they sponsor other men or find some kind
of service orientation, whether it's being on the, the CFC committees or being, uh, being a
treasurer, doing whatever they do, even setting up the chairs. It's like you said, it ties you
in a different way to the program. It gives you different type of accountability. You're
accountable to the group. And I, you know, I may, I may,
I may feel like drinking, but wait, I got to make the coffee tonight.
Now you mentioned earlier, something that I wanted to ask you about. You mentioned that when you
were working while you were still active in your disease, that you did an awful lot of
stealing and other things from employers. Did you have a extraordinarily large eighth step list?
And what was that like making amends for some of the things that you had done when you were
in your cups?
Until I hit that 10th year, I went back and worked the steps again. Like I was a newcomer is,
and I seriously looked at that eighth step and ninth step and said, okay, there's some more of
amends I need to make, especially financially. I remember going with a check in hand to my
last boss who was the chiropractor and, uh, it was a large sum of money. And I said, you know,
I just want you to have this back. You know, they were longs that he just, he took the check,
but he said, I'm not going to cash it, but I needed to be willing to let that money go.
And then there were times I,
I've been bankrupt twice and once before I got sober and once during, and that was again at that
10th year of sobriety. Now, this is how important it was for me to have a home group. When I moved
from North Miami to Fort Lauderdale, it was like moving to another country. You know, don't these
people know who I am? Why isn't anybody coming over to me? And I show up at meetings early and
it would be this quick and that quick. And after the meeting, you know, we, I organized bowling,
you know, once a month at my old home group and I would go to the meeting early to try and
fit in. And then I would stick, stick around after and, and there would be these different
clicks. And I remember coming out of this one home group because I, or group, I needed to find
a home group and get a job. And I was spinning around doing a 360 thing. Doesn't anybody go for
coffee around here? And one girl came up to me. Now, of course it wasn't the one girl that I
wanted to come up to me, but what am I going to tell her? No,
you're not good enough for me to go to coffee with, but I'll never forget people like that.
You know, like when I, but so it's important to me. So then I left to go away with my boyfriend
for the weekend and I had to confess to him, I'm gambling online. I think I'm a poker player
and proceeded to lose some more money that I didn't have. And, um, and this was by slipping
away. I was slipping of, uh, not being able to fit into a group and,
and, and a lot of people were like, well, you know, you're not good enough for me to go to coffee.
I said, I need to go back to that group and get a commitment. And I went Monday and sure enough,
that was when the business meeting was that Monday after the meeting and what was open,
the treasury. And I'm like, well, I'll do it. So two and a half years. Yeah. I didn't, you know,
that's not a coincidence. It's just not, it's, it's really not. No, absolutely.
That's God doing for us what we couldn't do.
Wouldn't, wouldn't do for ourselves. Wow. What a turnaround. So it took 10 years for you to get
to the point at which some of this stuff really started to set in. Um, what's your sobriety been
like in the last nine years since, is there any comparison to the first 10 years or is this a
completely different Terry? I'm hoping that it's a different Terry,
less consumed with self, more consumed with, uh, giving back and making somebody else happy,
uh, bringing a smile to somebody else, being of service that way. But, uh, but also being good to
myself and spend a lot of time in meditation and, and being okay with the limitations I,
I have because of the chronic pain that I have. How old were you when you first got
diagnosed with the Crohn's? I was married to my first husband and I was probably about 30.
I always had problems with my stomach as a kid. They diagnosed me with, um,
IBS and then it was colitis and then they couldn't figure out if it was colitis or Crohn's.
Now watching what my mother had gone through when they did diagnose me with Crohn's,
I wanted to throw myself off the terrace right then and there. I was not going to go through
what she went through. And especially when they wanted to give me Pregnisone because she always
used to say, it's a miracle drug, but the side effects will kill you. And, uh, she wasn't too
far off. I just had a call this morning from a, uh, a woman in the program, a woman in the program,
who's on a ton of Pregnisone and feels like she's relapsed. So I know that feeling.
So when you came in, in addition to the alcoholism, you had the Crohn's, which was
constant pain. Most of the time. Um, I've had other things happen since then. Yeah. You know,
it's funny how I'm never sick. I don't feel anything when I'm using and abusing, you know,
drinking, you know, never even sick with a cold. And then all of a sudden you get sober and
everything hurts.
It sounds like you and I have a lot in common, especially with the kind of heritage that we
come from. I think there's a lot of that innate guilt and shame that just goes with the territory.
How do you deal with self-defeating talk? Do you ever have that?
Oh, I used to.
How did you deal with that?
That, if I say in the last, especially five years has been the biggest benefit of all to me. I mean,
growing up with the household that I had and not a supportive family or sister or brother,
and, you know,
that self-esteem issue, you know, I heard a woman say in a meeting once I felt prettier, wittier and
kiddier when I drank. And I said, that's it. That's me. You know, I get that. And when you
don't have that anymore, you know, now what? I never had a lot of ambitions to do anything in
life. I mean, and I had somebody push me into my, my jewelry business. I didn't want to be there.
I didn't want to micromanage anybody working for me.
Oh yeah.
I wish I had been enough if I had to work for you. So that, that self-defeatist attitude and that
self-pity was a big part of my life. And that's what caused most of my depressing days. Now,
since I work those steps again, I never knew there was an 11th step morning prayer that said God
direct by thinking, let it be divorced of self-pity, self-seeking dishonest motives fear. So
whenever I feel that self-pity.
come up i i immediately turn it to gratitude and how grateful i am for the life that i lead today
and i i look around me and i say howard this is uh just the best gift that any one of us could
could receive and and it's taught me so much about myself and to love myself so i can better love
others and be okay with whatever i get done every everything could wait i'll kind of sum it up with
one of my all-time favorite stories i heard and believe it or not i think somebody shared it at
the meeting that we went to where his sponsor was visiting somebody who was in hospice and dying and
he would sit with those late night conversations and he said and he had so many years of sobriety
and he said knowing what you know now is there anything in your life you would have done different
you know now that he was dying and he looked right at him and he said i would have worried less and i
walked out of the meeting that i heard that in that day at my home group and i i immediately
stopped worrying as much as i used to and worrying about my needs and my myself was a big part of
that and isn't it amazing that it takes what it took to get us to the point where we're open to
doing that kind of stuff because i can be about as happy as i choose to be on any given day
i have to be really clear though that i'm still an alcoholic and i'm still the guy who
like you i i didn't really have any ambition the reason for that was because i never had any
direction as a kid it's really tough to know what to do next but for you what would have been some
of the most memorable uh gifts that that you've experienced in your 19 years let's say even 21
if we count the first go around number one i have to say my relationship with my husband
who's been with me for close to 30 years now that's amazing yeah yeah i'm telling you
that blind dog that uh seeing eye dog really came in handy that day it really did thank you
god and um yeah and just being able to appreciate all the people in my life you know and especially
the ones who get me and know my limitations and that any minute and i really appreciate
that about you howard when i said would you mind if i postpone this and you didn't even
hesitate to say please no problem and those are the people that i seek out today you know that
i'm not going to be able to understand my situation and i had that i have limitations
but i am a loyal leo and once you got me as a friend that's it but i really do appreciate
everything in my life everything and that just every time i get to sponsor somebody new every
time i get a call from a sponsee that says you have no idea how much you've helped me and it
it makes me feel that's all i needed to achieve in my life that's that made my life worth being
here two things that i'd like to ask my guests the first question is if you could go back with
what you know today if you could go back to terry in the past which terry would you go back to
to share with her what you've learned that might have changed her life had she heard it at that
age what age would that have been and what would you have told her probably would have been um
during the high school days of uh you're so talented you're so good you're so
uh worthy of all good things and and maybe to help and sometimes to even think about those
questions i'm just grateful to be in today i really don't even kind of ruminate about if
anything was miserable in the past i've forgiven my past i heard over say once that forgiveness
is giving up the idea of a better past that the past that the past could have been any different
than what it already was yeah especially
I've forgiven, I've forgiven the past, my parents, my, my siblings, and it is the way it is.
One of my guests said, and I love this, but he said, I'd go back to the five-year-old version
of me. And I, the first thing I'd do is I'd give him a big hug.
Oh yeah. We didn't do that with my family. Yeah.
Yeah. Mine, mine neither, mine either. And I've had to find that and I found it and more in AA.
This podcast is being listened to all over the world to differing degrees, but
is there any final message that you'd like to leave for the people listening
that might make a difference in somebody's life?
The only thing I do a hundred percent is this program. It really is. It's living,
which for me is living in 10, 11, and 12. I do a daily inventory and, um, and just to put the
back down, don't, don't beat myself up over the past and, and your life, you know, start to learn
about taking care of you.
And what makes you tick instead of trying to change everybody else. And, and it's possible
just to be here and don't, and always have that job in AA, always have that job, always have that
home group, always have that, uh, commitment and your life is going to change just even by
osmosis, just by being there, it will change. You know, we're going from one change to the next
and one passing to the next. And at the end of the day, if I can lay my pillow, my head down on my
pillow, I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to
know that I've been a decent person that day. A, I haven't drank. B, I've probably been to a
meeting and done some service work. So I'm already on the plus side of the scale. And, uh, you know,
it's, it does a lot for self-esteem and just self-love. To me too. Absolutely. That's,
I had to be rid of self. Otherwise it would kill me. Well, I really appreciate you doing this
today, Terry. I just learned so much about you and in such a short period of time, how well you
and I have connected our backgrounds. I mean, my mother was from Brooklyn and had a lot of
relatives in that same part of Brooklyn that you lived in, but it means the world to me that you
would come and share some of the intimate parts of your life as they relate to the disease of
alcoholism and drug addiction and your experience in being, let's say, redeemed by the program of
Alcoholics Anonymous. I want to thank you for doing this. And as I tell all my guests, I love
you. And I want to wish you,
uh, continued success on your sobriety. And the great thing about it is even though you're down
where you are and I'm over here in Texas, we'll still see each other at that London meeting.
Yeah. Yeah. And thank you so much for making me feel so welcome there. Also, I couldn't have
gotten a better greeter and a better chair that was there that called on me. Even when I was in
bed with my hair, my two hairs in place, I made sure my camera was on so they'd know it's a live
person. Oh yeah.
I'm so grateful to be doing service there. It's a wonderful group of people and it's got, um,
long-term sobriety, which is what I was looking for. So.
Right. And this is good service work, what you're doing right here right now. And again,
many thanks for doing this, Terry.
I'm honored that you asked me, Howard. Thank you.
Well, my friends, that's it for this episode of AA Recovery Interviews. I want to thank my guest,
Terry S., for sharing her story. And thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed AA Recovery
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