Steps 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 – Big Book Workshop 2019 – Part 1 of 6 – 2019 – Katie C.

A Katie alcoholic? And the only reason I'm sharing, I want to clear two things up that I said. One is, you know, when I said that you can sponsor if you've had a spiritual experience, that's a spiritual experience based on the steps, okay? We're not looking for you to have found, you know, done a little LSD and found a spiritual experience and come on in. And yeah, darn it! And then the other thing is, is the misunderstanding behind the sex powers. When I talk about bisexuality, I'm not saying that you can't be bisexual. I just don't sponsor whatever camp, you need to be in a camp if I'm going to sponsor you. So it's nothing against homosexuality, bisexuality, or anything like that. You see, as a sponsor, you get to pick and choose what you can handle. You don't have to just say, yes to everybody. If you come to me, I'll give you another little twist off on that. If you come to me and you are physically abusive with your significant other, I'm done. I'm not playing in that arena where you said, you know, I just hit him nine times last night. I just don't play in that arena. These are issues outside of alcoholism. So I don't want to give any disrespect to the gay community. I don't want to give any respect to the bisexual community. It's just, I won't sponsor it. So am I clear on that? No disrespect. Okay. Yeah, and certainly just, I feel like sometimes I go, I'm not saying you're kicked out of AA or anything. I'm just saying I'm not effective with certain, like if somebody's taking anxiety medications and stuff, I'm like, you're welcome to AA, but I'm not effective sponsoring in that area. I don't know how to do it, you know, for what that's worth. And I'm sure. It might be less than perfect, but that's what I go with. Where are we at? We're at six and seven. I went outside and heard a barn burner 10-step call. Had him seeing it from an entirely different angle by the end of it. And he's talked about taking a high road. Yeah, that was awesome. Did you talk about the high road? No, as a matter of fact, I forgot. Oh, my gosh. One time Katie was talking to Mike Lorenz. Okay. He was talking about something. And he said, Katie, what would happen if you took the high road on that one? And she goes, I don't think I have any experience with that. You know, I don't even know what that looks like. And so that became a part of our vocabulary a lot of times is you never regret taking the high road. And there's times where you have a conflict with somebody and I think about knocking their head off. And then you go, or I could take the high road, you know. I swear to God, a friend of mine called me the other day and we were getting ready to be in a place and one of the people that was there is difficult and has a long history of being difficult. And everybody knows they're prickly. And so I mentioned this name and I thought, well, we're about to go into a little bashing session here of this person that's going to be. And he goes, well, they've got their demons. And I'm like, yeah. And he goes, we know. We need to pray for them to come closer to God and come into a place where they have peace and harmony and are able to carry an effective message. And I go, or we could go that way. Yeah, you know. That's not where I thought the conversation was going to go, but I kind of like that high road business, you know. It's funny. Well, I've got to get going because we have, look at this. We got two hours left and we're still in the fourth step. But. But you see how I always like to reiterate that self piece. You see how we take the self piece. We take it through the four. And I don't know how I missed it. I missed it. You know, if I missed it in the third step. And then when you get to the fourth step, it says being convinced that self manifested in various ways is what it defeated us. I missed that too. You get over to the eighth step. It says we attempt to sweep away the debris which is accumulated out of our effort to live life on self will and run the show ourselves. Miss that one too. You know, I mean, it's like when we talk about that confirmation bias and not looking for new information in the book, a lot of stuff just goes right by me. And all I'm looking at is stuff that I agree with. Katie did a good job of talking about the sex ideal. And, you know, I mean, sex inventory. And it's funny. Why are we doing that? It says in this we were looking at manifestations of self when the sexual instinct is aroused, as if some of us might be selfish around the sexual instinct. And it's funny. Why are we doing that? Because we're not in the sexual arena. But then at the end of it, it says in this way we try to shape a sane and sound ideal for our future sex life. And it says there's four prayers on page 70 that one time I was talking to Mark Houston about some stuff. And he had me write these four prayers down on a three by five index card and carry them around with me. And it says we earnestly pray for the right ideal. And it says we ask God for guidance in each questionable situation. This is in the middle of page 70. For sanity and for the strength to do the right thing. Say you're having trouble with pornography and you want to stop doing it. You ask God for a sane and sound. Yeah, I ask God for the right ideal. I ask for guidance in each questionable situation, for sanity and for the strength to do the right thing. And, you know, I was carrying that around on a card for a good while. Wow. I was praying for this. But notice how it says we pray for the right ideal. Because over in the 169, it says in this way we try to shape a sane and sound ideal for our future sex life. And how do we do that? By looking at things that haven't gone well in the past. You know, where have I been selfish? Where have I been harmful? Who have I hurt? That sort of thing. And I take that evidence from that sex inventory and I go, this is not the way I want it to go. How do I want it to go? Because. Where I get in trouble is if I violate my own sexual values. You know, one time I was speaking in Tampa and Katie was sitting on the front row. I go, I don't get in trouble when I violate Katie's sexual values. It's when I violate my own values that I get in trouble. And then I paused for a minute and I went, I'd like to retract that statement. You know, I get in a great deal of trouble if I violate her sexual values. But what I meant to say was it's. It's not whether I violate my mother's values or my sponsor's values. But it's when I violate. But how am I going to know whether I'm violating my own values if I never figure out what they are? You know, and it could change over a period of time. You know, I mean, I sponsored this one guy that was built like he was carved out of wood. And he was a head of this big organization at the University of Texas. And his idea is a little different from a 60 year old married man. You know, this guy had more action than the Dallas Cowboys. And, you know, but he even he had. It was like I was a jerk to this girl. And I was a jerk to this girl. And I was a jerk to this girl. I was a jerk. Throughout his inventory, he was using a different word. But we're going to use jerk because it's more. It's better. And it's funny because as he's, you know, I was a jerk. The girl downstairs, the girl in the blue dress, short girl, you know, girl at the football game. You know, it was just. And all this being a jerk. And I heard myself say, how could we not be a jerk? What would it look like to not be a jerk? And I didn't even realize it at the time. But that's what the book is saying. It's saying in this way, we try to shape a sane and sound ideal for our future by looking at what hasn't worked well in the past. You know, does that make sense? And so and then so we're at the end of the of the fourth step. And it says, if we've been thorough about our personal inventory, we've written down a lot. Listen to all the references to this. Just be in the beginning. We have listed and analyzed our resentments. We have begun to comprehend their futility and their fatality. We have commenced to see their terrible destructiveness. We have begun to learn tolerance, patience and goodwill toward all men, even our enemies. For we look on them as sick people. We have listed the people we have hurt by our conduct and are willing to straighten out the past. If we can, in this book, you read again and again that faith did for us what we could not do for ourselves. We hope you are now convinced. Here's another one. We hope you're now convinced that God can remove whatever self-will has blocked you off from him. Maybe one day I'll say, maybe we're making too big of a deal out of this self-piece. But it seems like it's all over the work. I mean, all throughout the thing, it's self-self-will. You know, because it's interesting. I hope I don't know if we'll have time to talk about it. But when you get over the 10 step promises, it talks about being in a position of neutrality. The drink problem has been removed. And there's a line there. It says, we will find that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. I used to read that and go, what are they talking about? No thought or effort on my part. I've been busting my hump. You know, I've been, you know, doing inventory and making amends and praying and all this stuff. But none of that, when it started to make sense to me, is that none of that effort has been around alcohol. Everything we've been doing since the third step is about self. And how I show up and getting unblocked and getting connected to this power. And we pop up over here in the 10 step and it says, we're in a position of neutrality, safe and protected. You know, but it seems like it came without any effort. Because we do all this work over here when we pop up over the 10 step and go, well, I'm not thinking about drinking at all anymore. It's, I mean, that's the first time that statement ever made sense to me where it said without any thought or effort on our part. The new attitude just comes. It comes as a result of getting unblocked and doing the stuff we do. Okay. Having made our personal inventory, what shall we do about it? We've been trying to do three things. We're at the top of page 72. We've been trying to, one, get a new attitude. Two, a new relationship with our creator. And three, to discover the obstacles in our path. We've admitted certain things. Now these are about to be cast out. This requires action. This is not our part. You know, it's funny. There's not a tremendous amount of instructions about how to hear a fifth step. Most of the instructions about what we're looking for in the fifth step are in the fourth step. You know, it's, you know, what we're looking for and that sort of thing. But at one time, you know, and I do like this where it talks about leading a double life. You know, where it says I want to enjoy a certain reputation. I feel like I don't deserve it. That is one of the biggest dangers that I have as a sober member. I'm more of Alcoholics Anonymous, especially as someone that sponsors a lot of guys and I'm active. And the most dangerous thing for me is for AA to become theory. Where all of a sudden it's like, here, you know, take my advice. I'm not using it. You know, I mean, you know, and all of a sudden I find myself telling guys to do stuff that I'm not doing. You know, it is a dangerous, seductive trap. And one time, I'll tell you. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not going to lie to you. I called Byers one time. I said, Byers, do you do a written 10th step? I mean, I'm sorry. I said it myself. 11th step, evening review. I said, Byers, do you do a written evening review? And he goes, well, sometimes I might keep a piece of paper by the bed. And if I have stuff pop up during my evening review, I might write it down and take that into my morning. And now I'm just dipping my toes back into the work at this time. And I had a guy that I was sponsoring. And I was out in Arizona and he called me. I can tell you. I was sitting there. I was sitting there in a Walmart parking lot when he called me. And he goes, hey, Charlie, do you do a written evening review? And from my mouth, I hear my voice saying, well, sometimes I might keep a piece of paper. And as I'm saying that, I'm going, oh, my God, you phony bastard. You know, I mean, and I had to call him back and go, dude, I just straight up lied to you. I just, I mean, I don't keep a piece of paper by my bed. I just parented what Myers said to me. And he goes, oh, my God, I love you even more. You know, I mean, because, you know, but that's the way, you know, we got to come clean with that stuff. But, but, oh, when we get over here in the fifth step, it gives us some instructions on who's going to hear it in the bottom of 74. It says it's important that he be able to keep a confidence that he fully understand and approve what I'm driving at. And it's funny because it goes on here to say when we decide to hear it, we waste no time. We've written. We've written the inventory. We're prepared for a long time. We explained to our partner what we're about to do and why we have to do it. And Mark one time goes, what are we about to do? And I thought, you know, he always asks these questions I didn't have an answer for. And he goes to face and be rid of the things in ourselves which are blocking me. You know, going back to that deal that I made in the third step, it says if I stay close to him and perform his work well, he'll provide what I need. Well, I can't stay close to this power. Unless I get close to this power. And I can't get close to this power when I'm blocked. So what this whole four through nine is about, I picture this pipeline between me and the power. And the problem is my pipeline is stuffed with resentment and fear and remorse and worry and guilt and all those things that come along with it. And what we're trying to do is at least remove enough of what's blocking me. So there can be some flow of power between me. And there's power enough to keep me safe and protected. You know, and I don't know what the window of opportunity is that we have to do somebody. But I like getting guys through the steps pretty rapidly. Now, we're going to go back and do more work later. I think the steps are in a circular fashion. But I like to get somebody. I call it spiritual triage. In that first pass through the steps, we just need to get a bandage on the bleeding and get you connected with the power enough that, you know, because we have this window of opportunity when a guy comes in. Yeah. Crushed by this self-imposed crisis. But the ego of the alcoholic rebuilds at an astonishing rate. So I don't know how long the period of time is before that window of opportunity shuts. So that's the amount of time we have to get that guy, you know, unblocked and in touch with the power. And so I like to. But one time I called Scott L. He was from Nashville. He's in Florida now. I think he may be back in Nashville. I'll see him this weekend at the usual suspects. But. I said, you know, Scott, I hear people. I've taken a pretty technical approach to write an inventory and that sort of thing in the book. I said, but, you know, you hear people say, what's the worst thing you ever did? What's the thing you decided you're never going to tell me? You know, have you heard people say, you know, what's the thing you already decided on the way over here? You're not going to tell me no matter what. And I said, I don't see that anywhere. I did the resentments. I did the sick man exercise. I did the entirely different angle. I did the fear. I don't see anything that talks about what are the worst things because it talks about hanging on to the worst items. It's stock. And he said, well, it's in the fifth step. I said, well, he goes, yeah, it says we pocket our pride and go to it. This is the second new paragraph on 75. We pocket our pride and go to it, illuminating every twist of character, every dark cranny of the past. Illuminating means to shine light on every twist of character, every dark cranny of the past. So I don't know where this comes in in the fifth step. And for me, it's always been kind of intuitive. Sometimes I'll bring it up on the. Front end of here in the fifth step. Sometimes I'll bring it up in the middle of the fifth step. Sometimes I'll wait till the very end of the fifth step. And we're going along and the guy's done his resentments. He's done his fears. We've done his sex inventory. And then we're sitting there and I go, so is that it? He goes, yeah, yeah, that's it. I go, nothing else. No, nothing else. That's it. So everything. That's everything. OK, yeah. All right. Because it's funny because I know when I came in, I was doing an inventory with this one guy. I just love his name. It's Jamie and beautiful guy. I mean, when he. When I started sponsoring him, he had dreadlocks past his pockets on his jeans. He had a ring in his nose. He had ink everywhere you can see, you know, and this guy has become the best soldier. But I mean, I watched this guy go from a hopeless little alcoholic drug addict in a treatment center to eventually I watched him get on an airplane and fly up to Mount Olive, New Jersey to turn himself in on a 19 year old resentment. And he told me when he's getting ready to go up there, he goes, the only reason they would put me in jail. Is if there's somebody in that jail that I'm the only one that can carry the message to him. I'm like, wow. That's not the power of Jamie. That's not the power of Charlie Parker. That's the power of God moving in somebody's life. You know, and he went up there and it's funny because I called up there and I was said, I'm talking about him. And they said, are you his attorney? And I said, no, actually, I'm his sponsor. And the lady goes, my son's three and a half years. And I, you know, I'm not going to tell you. And I was like, how about that? But anyway, I'm doing inventory with this guy. And at one point I go, so is that everything? He goes, yeah, that's everything. I go, okay. I said, that's it. I said, I know in my inventory, I felt really guilty about this. And I listed something out of my past and he, and he, you could see his mind going. So we're going all the way there, are we? You know, and he goes, oh, there, there's something else. And he, and he told me that, you know, and it didn't make his head explode. And then he goes, oh, and there's something else. And, and we talk about that for a minute. And I said, okay. We give a big hug and he gets this car and he drives home. And 10 minutes later, my phone rings and he goes, there's one more thing, you know? But I mean, you see what it means when it says we took stock. All right. But we hung on to the worst items in stock. The things that are, they're going to block me the most are the things I'm going to. Now I will say you hear some straight up BS and I mean, sometimes. And one of the things you hear. People say sometimes I've heard people go, I've never heard anything in a fifth step that shocked me. Well, you ain't heard enough inventories, buddy. I mean, because I've heard some stuff in fifth steps that shocked me, you know, but I'm, but you can't sit there and go, oh, dang, son. Ah, dang. I don't think I'd have told that one, you know, I mean, but we're trying to get unblocked, you know, and that sort of thing. So now here's the thing. I want to roll into six. Okay. I do want to talk about the hour at the end of the fifth step. For a long time, I would have called this the hour after the fifth step, but now I call it the hour at the end of the fifth step. It's part of the fifth step at the bottom of 75. After the fifth step promises, it says returning home, we find a place where we can be quiet for an hour. And I've written above that 60 minutes. It's a, it's one of those 60 minute hours. And it says carefully reviewing what we have done. We thank God from the bottom of our heart. And I wrote. It's a prayer. It says, taking this book down from our shelf, we turn to the page which contains the 12 steps. Now, personally, if we just finished doing your inventory and your fourth step, I don't exactly know why your big book is on a shelf. But I tell my guys, I want you to go home, put your book up on a shelf, and then reach back up there and take it down. It's a, it's a ridiculous exercise, and I demand it. You know, it's like, you know, but it says, taking this book down from the shelf, we turn to the page. We turn to the page. It says, taking this book down from the shelf, we turn to the page. It says, taking this book down from the shelf, we turn to the page. It says, taking this book down from the shelf, we turn to the page. It contains the first five steps. And it says, asking if we, we ask if we, now, here's a clue. In the book, when it says we ask, it's usually a prayer. And if it says we ask God, it's always a prayer. But it's saying we're asking if we have omitted anything. And so, it says, turn to the first five proposals. We have asked if we have omitted anything, for we are building an arch through which we shall walk a free man. Is our work solid so far? Are the stones properly in place? Have we skimped on the cement put into the foundation? Have we tried to make mortar with sand? One time I asked Mark Houston at my table about this exercise here in six and seven. And he went into a little thing where he started talking about that hour at the end of the fifth step. And he talked about looking back over the serious piece of business that we've just done. And going back and looking at the first five steps and all their implications. Am I bodily and mentally different from my fellows? Am I physically different from my fellows? Do I really? Do I really have a physical allergy coupled with a mental obsession? Am I outright mental defective? Is my only defense against this a relationship with a power greater than myself? Have I been crushed by a self-imposed crisis that I can no longer postpone? Am I willing to say that God is either everything or he's nothing? Have I taken that into my third step decision? Have I seen where selfishness and self-centeredness are the root of my problem? Am I the actor trying to run the whole show? Do I operate out of this toolkit of self-will? Do I have the delusion? And running everything through all the implications of the first five steps. And all of a sudden, I'll never forget it. Chad was sitting there at the table and Mark went on this thing. And I could see Chad and he's looking at Mark and he's looking at me and he's looking at Mark. And he's like, are you getting this? And it was like, I've got it recorded. And it was just... And Chad told me later, he goes, I think I heard about 10% of what Mark said that day about the hour. And that 10%. Revolutionized that hour at the end of the fifth step for me. All of a sudden, I used to just kind of go home and chill and flip through the book and maybe read We Agnostics or something. But I mean, now I'm really looking at all the implications of the first four steps and what I've uncovered in the fifth step and in the fourth column and that sort of thing. And then it says, it asks all these questions. And it says, if we can answer their satisfaction, we then look at step six. One. And the time Katie was given... Have you ever heard of this kind of a Woodstock format of AA conferences? There was a guy that came up with the idea of a Woodstock conference. And what it was, was he was going to get a bunch of well-known speakers together. But instead of telling their story, each person was going to have a step. You know, like Charlie might have step one and two. And then Katie would have step three. And then so-and-so would have step four and five. And they've become real popular. They're super intense. Because it's, you know, there's, you can't, they're all like some of our favorite speakers. I mean, you can't really skip any of the sessions because, you know, you're like, who are you going to skip? Tom Ivester or Sandy Beach, you know, or something, you know, and you're just saying, so. But it was, they were super, I mean, one time, we've been privileged enough to be involved in a few of those. And, and so one time we're at one and they said, hey, Katie, would you like to come to do the Woodstock next year? And, you know, it's a big honor to be asked to do one. And she goes, oh, yeah. And they go, we'd like for you to do six and seven. Am I the only one that feels like you run out of bullets after about ten minutes and six and seven, you know? And she comes out and Lorenza's sitting there and she goes, yeah, I think they want me to do six and seven. I mean, I don't know. Where are we going to go with that? And so she goes back in and she tells the guy at the organ. She goes, you know, I'm really a lot better at three. And so he says, and Mike, Mike is one of these guys that just pops you upside the head with loving spirit. And, you know, and that's the way he was sponsored. He told me one time he goes, he said one time he goes, I'll leave a meeting. This is the way Don Pritt sponsored. You know, you want to hear some sponsorship. He said, I left a terrible AA meeting. It's one of these discussion meetings where nobody's talking solutions. They're all just coming out of the side of their neck. And it's a bunch of, you know, just and he said, so on the way home, he calls Don Pritt to say what a horrible meeting this was. And they're going to talk about the current state of the collapse of Alcoholics Anonymous. And the discussion. Discussion meeting format. And he's talking about the meeting. And Pritt goes, oh, it sounds like a terrible meeting. And he goes, it was. He goes, good. He goes, what do you mean good? He goes, Mike, we don't need you at the good meetings. I said, oh, you know, he goes, hmm. He goes, I want you to have at least two terrible meetings a week on your schedule. You know, I mean, when you think about it. Well, once we get this message, you know, we have a tendency to go into our little pockets of enthusiasm. And if 95% of the meetings in my town are open discussion meetings, that means there's a 95% chance that a new guy is going to wind up in one of those meetings. And if all I ever do is meet with a bunch of where I'm preaching to the choir, I'm throwing that new guy to the wall. So occasionally I have to pick out some of what I would call terrible meetings and go sit in there and maybe think, how could I be productive? How could I be effective? How would I address that bull that that guy just came out with over there? You know, what's the way, you know, with that? Because my experience has been if you go in there and go, let me tell you how you're killing our newcomers. They rarely go, oh, thank you so much for coming by. You know, I mean, had you not come by, we would have just continued to kill people in our ignorance. You know, I mean, we're so happy you're here. You know, I got to think of a way to be more effective. So, Lorenz. So the thing, Katie comes back out and Lorenz sits there and she goes, I got him to change for the step three. And he goes, oh, that's too bad. He goes, it would have been interesting to see where God took you with six and seven. Yeah. So she marches back in there, you know. Total producer of confusion rather than harmony. It says, give me six and seven. Yeah. So, you know, it's funny. You hear people say. We got to go to the 12 and 12 for steps. Six and seven. Because it's only two little paragraphs in the big book. And there are two. But that's kind of like saying the third step is just one little bitty prayer in there. I mean, we have spent 75 pages preparing for these two little paragraphs in the big book. And when they're addressed with depth and weight, it's a. I'm not saying don't ever read the 12 and 12. But I'm just saying that a lot of times the ones that I feel like people say where you have to go to the 12 and 12. Or somewhere in the essay on that step. Is one of the weakest ones in the 12 and 12. I read the essay on this. This is sacrilege. But I read the essay on the seventh step in the 12 and 12. And it talks. It's a great essay on humility. I don't see it addressing what we do in the seventh step, though. It's like whoever wrote it. I think Tom Powers wrote a lot of that stuff. But it says. It's like they saw where it says humbly. Humbly. Humbly. Humility. Let's write an essay on humility. Okay. You can strike that from the tape. But it says. If we can answer these questions to our satisfaction. We then look at step six. We have emphasized willingness as being indispensable. Are we now ready to let God remove from us all the things which we have admitted are objectionable? When did we admit they were objectionable? In the fourth column of the inventory process. Right? So what happens is. When we do this. Now when we do the sick man exercise. And then I go into the fourth column. I come out of that inventory with real things. That are objectionable to me. I see where I've been. You remember that. Oh my God. Those are the things that I take into my awareness. When I go. I am so selfish. And thoughtless. And inconsiderate. And self-seeking. And dishonest. And delusional. And that they come out with real stuff. Real pieces of business. To take to God in six and seven. And we're back to that thing where. And so what I've started seeing. Is the four things that take place in six and seven. Is the first thing we look for. Is this thing that I've discovered. In the fourth column. Is it objectionable to me? Right? That's one thing for things to be objectionable to other people. But now I have awareness of it. And it has become objectionable to me. This is stuff that I see that I'm doing. That I don't like. I don't like the way this makes me come across to people. I don't like the end result of it. I don't like anything about it. And I see where it's blocking me. Okay. So if it's objectionable to me. The next question is. Do I have the power to change it on my own? Right? Remember how the book keeps taking me to. Here's what's objectionable. Oh and by the way you can't do anything about it. Well that's what it says. Is this objectionable to you? Do you have the power to change it in whatever way you see fit? And if I get to that. I go no. Clearly I don't have the power to change it. Or I would have done it by now. I've talked about changing it 58 times. But my sponsor and I have had 400 conversations about it. But when I need relief I go right to it. So if it's objectionable. If it's objectionable to me. And I don't have the power to change it on my own. The next question is. Am I willing to let God change it in whatever way he sees fit? I don't get to tell God how I'll serve him. Just if I will or not. You know. But when we get to this thing. It says. Is it objectionable to me? Do I have the power to change it? If I don't have the power to change it. Am I willing to let God change it in whatever way he sees fit? And if those three things are in place. I take it to God in the seventh step. And we say. My creator. I am now willing that you should have all of me. The good and the bad. I pray that you now remove from me every single defect of character. Which stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant me strength as I go out from here to do your bidding. Amen. Look at what a powerful exercise that becomes. And it's going to constantly become it. Over and over and over. You know. In my sobriety. I've never had to like really. Dig too deep. To find things to work on. You know. It seems like things will come up on the horizon. Where I don't even really notice them. And I kind of start noticing. The way I talk to Katie. Or the way I you know. Act around my kids. Or the way it's something. And then I start going. Oh that's kind of objectionable. And before long it seems like it goes. You know where all I can see. Is what a jerk I am in this arena here. And it becomes really objectionable. And then I don't. And then I take it. So we're going to be running through this process. A lot. You know. Of things becoming objectionable. Am I willing to let God change it. Taking it to God. And asking him to change it. When we need. Now we need more action. You know it's funny. I think a whole. People say. One time we were in New Jersey. And this lady came up to me. She goes. Are you one of these people. That believes in taking people. Through the steps really fast. And I wasn't trying to be a wise guy. But I said. Well no. I mean. Not really fast. I mean. Two weeks. A week. I don't know. You know. But I mean. When you think about it. I was talking to somebody. About it earlier. Is that. It takes me about an hour. To take somebody through step one. Physical allergy. Mental obsession. Get them crushed. With the hopeless. Then we're going to talk about the power. A little bit. And then we're going to. Then it takes me about an hour. And 15 minutes. This might be on a second conversation. To talk about the self piece. Pages 60 to 63. Then we do a third step prayer. And we get him right in the inventory. Right. I mean. I don't know how long that takes. But it could be done in a weekend. There was a guy that I saw. In our. At that North. North. North. North. North. North. North. North. North. North. One day. And at the end of the meeting. He was standing right there. And people were going around him. Like water. Going around the boulder. In the meeting. And he was a brand new guy. And I walked over to him. And I go. Are you new here? And he goes. Yeah. And I go. You're going to need a sponsor. Man. And I said. That's just somebody that shows you. What we do around here. I said. Doesn't cost anything. You know. It's part of what we do. To stay sober. And I said. I'd be happy to do it for you. And he goes. Thanks. You know. Because he's standing there. The meeting's over. And he's like. Well. What do I do about drinking? You know. And so. We. I took him home. And we went through the steps. That weekend. And I watched this guy. Have a powerful. Spiritual experience. And he wound up. Going to seminary. And becoming a minister. And he's a recovery minister. In this huge church. In Dallas. He's taken the 12th step. All over the place. And. And he still is blown away. By what happened. In that. In that three day. Weekend. You know. This. It's. And. To get to be a part of that. Is. Wow. I mean. You know. I always say. If a guy's had a spiritual awakening. As a result of this. These steps. You don't have to press that guy. Into carrying this message. You can't stop that guy. From carrying this message. And. I see it over and over again. But I mean. I think most people. Would be surprised. If. If. If we're going through the steps. That when they show up. They show up. On my doorstep. With their fourth step. In their hand. That that day. We're going to do their fifth step. They're going to go home. They're going to do the hour. At the end of the fifth step. They're going to take those observations. Into six and seven. And then. In that night. They're going to be writing a list. Of their harms. And. Adding to what they have. Out of their inventory process. And then the next day. They'd be on steps. Nine. Ten. Eleven. And twelve. You know. That we. That in one day. We're going to do. Five. Six. Seven. Eight. And then when we get to ten. Eleven. It says. We can. We. We vigorously commence. This way of living. As we cleaned up the past. So I mean. You know. It's. This chapter. Covers a whole bunch of steps. In pretty short order. Here. You know. And so now. We roll into this. Amends process. And I'll never forget. I'm just going to. I'm not going to tell. Because I'm almost out of time. But when I started working with Mark. Mark. We met him at this weekend workshop. And I'm telling you. I had to take Monday off. After that weekend. It just blew my mind. What happened. All right. What's. Talking. To Mark. For that weekend. And. And so. Then he moves to Austin. And I said. Hey. You know. Would you. Are you going to sponsor anybody here? And he goes. I'm going to take on three. And I said. I'd love to be one of them. And so. He comes over to the house. And we got the guys there. You know. And this is really. When we started that meeting. But. But you know. When you. When you think. Hey. I got a new sponsor. You figure. What are we going to do first? Most of us would think. Well. We're probably going to write inventory. Right. Got a new sponsor. We're probably going to write inventory. That sort of thing. Mark sits down. I was sitting right here. Mark sits right there. And. He sits down. And we're. We're starting the meeting. And he goes. Where are you guys at with the amends process? We said. What? That's what an alcoholic says. When they're trying to think of an answer. Better than. You know. And. I said. What? He goes. Where are you guys at with the amends process? And I was like. Well. I mean. You know. I made some amends. You know. And stuff like that. You know. There's probably. And he goes. I sense. That there's a significant experience for you men. In the amends process. And we're. We thought he was like Svengali or something. You know. We're just like. How does he know that? You know. Well. Because nearly all of us have a significant experience available in the amends process. You know. And he sits down. There's two very troubling words in the eighth step. It says. We made a list of all persons we have harmed. And became willing to make amends to them all. Boy. There's a lot of. When Mark used to talk about this. Step one drives me into all the work. And there's a lot. There's a lot of reasons to make some of the amends. Or most of the amends. But there's only one reason to make all of them. And that's because. I think. He used to say. Do you think this has anything to do with whether you stay sober or not? Is my step one experience driving me into this process? Because if I'm driven by a real step one experience. When you get to the fourth step. And you go. Hey. Do you want to write an inventory? No. Not particularly. You go. Well what if your two choices really are. Either write inventory. Or die an alcoholic death. You know when it says. Whether to live life on a spiritual basis. Or die an alcoholic death. What if those really are my two choices? So what if. He goes. What if your choices were. Write inventory. Or drink vodka. Well good grief. I mean writing inventory is a walk in the park. Compared to what vodka asks from me. You know. I mean. And then we get to the amends process. Do you want to make. Well. Not really. But when you compare it to what vodka asks me to give. Making amends is no big deal. So we started making this list of amends. And I'm going to hand this over to Katie. But I do want to say one thing. That came out of one meeting we did. We were sitting around. And this was a group of guys. That all have spiritual consent with each other. And I said. Why don't we do this guys? I said. Why don't we all write down our remaining amends this week. And we'll meet together next Thursday. And we'll read our list. I had no idea how powerful that was going to be. Because the next list. And there's something. Where's that pen? There's one thing you got to keep handy. When you're doing that exercise. It's one of these. Because we were sitting there. And as we're going through the list. My list started getting a little longer. You know. We all had our list. And this one guy goes. I bought gas. And I drove off without paying. And I'm like. You used to be able to do that. And he says. He says. Another guy goes. I ate in restaurants. And ran out without paying. You know. Dining and dashing. And we're like. Oh. Okay. And then this one guy goes. I robbed all the emotional energy out of my family. And took all the attention from my parents. That should have been going to my sister. And it was all on me. Because I was always the one that was in trouble. And I robbed her of the experience she should have had. With her parents. And her little brother. We're like. Oh. We're going all the way there. Are we? You know. You know. And so. Now we started to make. And then. All of a sudden. Now my conversations. Will change. With my sponsees. Where we're now. When they called. Before the circle and triangle check in. One of the things we're going to say is. Have you made any approaches this week? I know you got an amends list. You know. Jamie called me one day. He says. I'm looking at this bass guitar. Man. He goes. There's a bass guitar down at. Strand Music. And I goes. It's really awesome. I'm saying. How much is it? Jamie goes. It's $700. I go. That's interesting. I go. Hey. Tell me something. Did you make amends to that studio. Where you stole all that equipment. At that time. He goes. Well. No. Not yet. And I go. So that $700. You got in your pocket. I said. Who does that belong to? And he goes. I guess. You can see a conversation going south. You know. And he goes. Well. I guess it's theirs. And I go. So do you want to steal from them twice? He's like. Never mind. You know. And. But. The last thing I want to say. Is that. The bulk of the advice. That you hear. In the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. Is. Is. Based around. Not having to make the amends. If you got an amend. That you don't want to make. All you got to do. Is go down to the AA clubhouse. And talk to two or three people. And somebody will tell you. How you don't have to do it. The lamest of the lame. Is the one where they go. Well. It says. Except when you're injured. Them or others. You know. And you're part of others. So. And you're like. Oh. Shut up. I mean. The book says. The rule is. That we're hard on ourselves. And. Easy on others. I mean. So. We're not really a part of that. Others. But. But. One time. I was in a meeting. And I said. I said. Chris. Come here. I go. Watch. I'm going to chair this meeting. On making direct amends. To such people. We have harmed. And I want you to watch people. Change the topic. Avoid the topic. Or talk about why. You don't have to do it. And at the end of the meeting. I said. What do you think? And he goes. If you hadn't told me. It was going to happen. I wouldn't have believed it. You know. At one point. At 30 minutes of the meeting. We're going. Has anybody here. Actually made direct amends. To somebody of harm. Because the people. Like one lady goes. I used. I used to work at another company. I stole. I embezzled from this company. And. But now. I'm making living amends. Because I'm working at another company. And I'm not stealing from them. And you know. Oh. That's got to be really comforting. To the company you stole from. You know. Most of the time. When. What people describe. As living amends. Is nothing other than. Practicing these principles. In all our affairs. Of course. You're not stealing from them. You're not stealing from the new company. But that is in no way. Making direct amends. It'd be like me saying. Hey Tony. Listen. I stole your lawnmower. But I just want you to know. I'm not doing that anymore. You know. I mean. He's not going to be comforted. So. There's a lot of instructions in here. On the. On the amends process. But. The most important. The funny thing is. We will try to talk ourselves out of doing it. But when you hear people. Talk from the podium. The most powerful experiences. You hear in AA stories. Are people making direct amends. Or. People. Or some of their amends stories. You know. God gets in the middle of that. And stuff happens. That just can't happen otherwise. And so. Don't let you. Don't. Let anybody read your big. Don't let anybody read your big book for you. And don't let anybody talk you out of the promises. That come along with the amends process. I'm going to let Katie talk. More about it. Thanks. Thank you. All right. Katie. Alcoholic. The. Actually. This is going to be a shorter little session here. And. When we come back. From this next time. It's going to be a ten minute break. When we come back. It's going to be the eleventh step. And. We'll be done. Because we did the tenth step last night. So hang in there. This won't take that long. And I know by this time of day. I'm so impressed. With you guys hanging in. I mean. This is really not easy. It. It really is not easy stuff. And. We. Charlie and I have been on both sides. So. We know. We know how grueling these things can be. Um. Anyway. We can throw another log on that air conditioner. Yeah. Um. I want to. I want to talk about. Uh. Three or four amends. And. And. One of them is. If. On page 77. Uh. Let's see. Officially. First paragraph down. Where it says. We don't use this excuse from shying away from the subject of God. One. Two. Three. Four. Lines down. And. Um. It says. The question of how to approach the man we hated. Will arise. That is so important to understand. That. To the man we hate. Is really. Really. Forgiveness. And we have to understand that. We get blocked from the sunlight of the spirit. No matter what we've got going on. A resentment will block me. A. Uh. Not forgiving somebody will block me. And. I can't figure out why I'm flat. I can't figure out. Why everybody's doing better than I am. And a lot of times. It is forgiveness. And it says. It may be. He has done us more harm than we've done him. Right there. You can see that you just. You just really. You may. You didn't even hardly retaliate. And he's done more harm. And it says. We are still not too keen about admitting our faults. Nevertheless. With the person we dislike. We take the bit in our teeth. Which all of us probably know. That's a horseback riding. You know. Phrase. It is harder to go. Now. This is the most important part. It is harder to go to an enemy. Than to a friend. But we find it much more beneficial to us. So a lot of times. In AA. You'll hear people say. The amends process is not about us. I'll reread that line. It says. It is harder to go to an enemy. Than a friend. But we find it much more beneficial to us. You see. That level of forgiveness is so crucial. Remember I told you. I don't do it well. And I had a. I had. Two people. In my life. That I. Just could not forgive. And I'm telling you. One of them was Charlie's youngest daughter. She was. She had really hurt me badly. And I completely justified. That I could just. Kind of shut that door in my life. With her. You know. I'd be. I. I. She could be around. Or whatever. But I was not. Okay. With what had happened. And for seven months. I found myself. So restless. Irritable. And discontented. I. I just. It's like. What is wrong. With me. And I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. Why am I so frustrated. And it really came to me. In a morning prayer and meditation. This need to do this work. Behind her. And it was all about forgiveness. I did the inventory with Lorenz. Lorenz is a great. 10 step buddy of mine. I do a ton with my sponsor. But this particular. One I felt like. Have you ever felt like. You wore your sponsor out? Yeah. Well I had worn her out. With this child. And so. I thought. You know what. I need some fresh blood. Looking at this. And I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I need some fresh blood. Looking at this. And. It was so interesting. What came out of this. And. It was. Without going into too much detail. Because. This is so personal. And it's. You know. Family. That I would. Not want them to hear this. Nowadays. These god dang things. Are showing up on flipping YouTube. Stop it. You know. My grandkids are listening to them. I'd like to at least make them. A little bit more difficult to find. And. Um. But. When I did this inventory. I was amazed. At how self seeking I was. In this relationship. Uh. With Charlie's youngest daughter. I mean. Unbelievably self seeking. And I realized that we needed to have a talk. And after seven months of me. Basically shutting the door. Uh. We went and had a talk. And it was as if the entire. Everything went away. I still was very hurt by the behavior she did. But everything went away. I'm telling you. To the man we hate. Is amazing. What will happen with that. I did it with another. Uh. Person that was in AA. And I had hurt them terribly bad. And I didn't. I was justified in how I hurt them. Uh. Does that sound familiar to any of y'all? Yeah. I mean. Come on. That's. That's. That's. That should be a tattoo on us. And I was completely justified in how I had hurt them. And I did not realize how badly that blocked me from the sunlight of the spirit. Took me four years. To get to where I am. And I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I took four years. To clean that up. And when I went back to them. I just. I just took 110% responsibility. They didn't bring anything. I wasn't expecting them to bring anything. And what was so cool. Was the next day when I woke up. I was thinking about them. Now this is somebody I couldn't stand. I was thinking about them. And if I thought if we were really deep friends. I would have picked up the phone and called them. But we're not. So I couldn't really do that. But that's. That's what I'm talking about. This instant. Vaporization. Rises. And I don't realize. There is nothing like a justifiable resentment. We've used that terminology like we can do it. And you will get blocked from the sunlight of the spirit. There is. There's several things in the amends. In the ninth step. I'm just going to read them. Because when you listen to them online. You can make the notes. Direct face-to-face amends is page 77. Direct owing money page 78. For criminal offenses page 78. Divorce alimony child support page 79. Implicating others and getting permission page 80. Domestic troubles 80 to 81. Extramarital sex. How much to tell. You know my opinion. 81. Jealousy 82. Cleaning house with the family 82. Wrongs we cannot write page 83. I think it's important to know that. The book is pretty darn clear on most of it. But then all of it still kind of falls a little bit into that gray area. The other thing is there's a handful of amends here. And you know like Charlie said. The majority of advice you will get in AA is you don't have to make it. You don't have to make it. You know what? That was 30 years ago. I'm telling you guys. It is remarkable. The way we just kind of make humanity better. You know. Go back and clean up. Imagine somebody from 35 years ago and 100 years ago. 35 years ago in high school. Really hurting your feelings. And they find you. And make that amends. Wouldn't that make you feel good? I mean somebody who really hurt you. And we hurt so many people. Like I said. I hurt more people in untreated alcoholism than I did in active using. It was pretty shocking. And so there was one individual that a business deal had gone. Let's put it this way. On my side had gone poorly. Not on her side. And I had. And I came into her world at a time that I was not doing well. Jo was very, very sick. And she was trying to run this big organization. And I came in like a train wreck. And I wrecked her day that she had worked very hard at making this one presentation remarkable. And remember I told you I was like Ray Donovan. If you've ever watched Ray Donovan you know that personality. I wrecked her entire presentation. And then I made two very powerful people upset with her. Can you all be like that? Okay. You got to nod your head or something. I saw you like. Whoa. Be with me on this. Okay. So this was so damaging. But I didn't see it for years. That's the thing that's so amazing is you don't really see how damaging this stuff is until you wake up. Or a sponsee brings you something. That's another time that it will wake you up. And so I ended up realizing I was going to see her at an event we were going to have. This is some. Golly. 17 years later I'm going to see her at this event. And I mean every time I told Charlie. I said every time I'd see her. It was out in Vegas. Every time I'd see her she'd dodge me. Avoid me. You know just trying to stay away from me. And it was you know Vegas is a big. Those convention centers are huge. I'd have to basically. Sprinted towards her to catch her. You know. So I just told Charlie. I called him. I said it's not going to happen. You know I had really hoped it was going to happen. It's not going to happen. And during a presentation of somebody's. I went into the bathroom. And you know in Vegas those bathrooms are the size of a football stadium. They're gigantic. And I walk in this bathroom. And it's just her and me. Not one other person in there. Oh it just makes me want to cry. And she's. And she was pinned. Really like an animal. It was kind of sad. The look on her face was. She was quite frightened. And she looked at me. And you know she was like. And I went. Oh and I'll just say her name was Susan. You know because once again I don't want this all out there for the world to hear these days. And I go. Oh Susan. I go I've been trying to catch your attention. She goes. Oh I know. I know. It's okay. It's okay. Because I rolled in and was a disaster. 17 years ago. It left a terrible mark on her. And I said. Oh no please. May I have a few minutes just to talk to you. And you could tell how uncomfortable she was. And she's starting to talk to me. And I said. You know. I want to go back to that day. That. Of what I did at. In business. And I start to relive it. And she goes. Really. Katie. I didn't realize your husband was so sick. It's fine. It's really fine. And I held both her hands. And I said. Please go back there in this moment in time. And I said. I took your day that you had worked months on. And I absolutely destroyed it. I was like a train coming through there. And I mean it just flowed out of my mouth so beautifully. And she started crying. And she looked at me. And she said. You know. It was. It was really hard. And I said. I know it was. And I said. I want to tell you from the bottom of my heart. I am so sorry. That I could be that inconsiderate. And that thoughtless. To have taken something you worked so hard on. And I said. I want to tell you something you worked so hard for. And just run over it. And I mean. We had this amazing six minute conversation. And from that point on. I mean the whole rest of the weekend. She's. You know. Come. Come sit. It was unbelievable guys. She's saying. And now she's not doing very well. I just got news that she's got a health issue. I just sent her a big bouquet of flowers. And I mean. Don't underestimate the power of God. Of cleaning stuff up. And I mean. I mean. I mean. I mean. I mean. I mean. I mean. I mean. I mean. I mean. I mean. Clean and stuff up. It is amazing. What happens. Absolutely. Amazing. I want to also tell you about the one that I did for the. Many of y'all have heard my CDs Where I used to be a school bus driver. I know that's hard to believe. And I drove a school bus. And in driving this school bus. I did it for the medical insurance. Because Joe was very sick. And we had catastrophic insurance. I really assumed. I'd be driving that bus for 14 days. And turns out it was three years. He was a very sick man with a brain tumor. And so imagine me in untreated alcoholism on a school bus. Your most prized possessions. Come on, little children. The crazy ladies behind the wheel, you know. And, oh, I could just give you hundreds of crazy things I did. Crazy. I'm not a rule player. I still don't really play by the rules. I mean, it was something. I personally had a blast, but maybe you wouldn't have thought so if it was your children. But one of the things I did is, you know, I managed to damage the bus. And it was two humps that you went down, and then you take a right. For y'all that have not heard this story, you take a right. And the back end of a bus always hops up, right? And so the kids would always say, you know, Miss Kate, go over that fast. Go over it fast. I said, you guys, I'm going to get in trouble. I can't do that. And so one day I looked. I look in the mirror, because your life's in a mirror. And I look in the mirror, and I realize it's all boys. So I have, like, five boys on the bus that are left in their elementary school. My son was one of them. And I said, hey, guys, get to the back of the bus. I'll take you over the humps. And, I mean, they're like, whoa. And they run to the back of the bus, and I look up. And now this is a gas bus. Now, I don't drive diesel, because they don't go fast enough for me. And let me tell you, gas goes fast. I like to drive fast anyway. So I get ready, and it's these two humps. And then you have to come to a dead stop. And take a right. So I look up, and I go, okay, let's go. And I gas it. And, oh, my God, have you guys been in that moment in time where you see this is such a bad idea? I mean, it's such a bad idea. And it's like life went in slow motion. And I look in that mirror, and these kids are this high up, you know, going. And I thought, oh, my God, all of them are suspended in the air. You know. And I. And we're still climbing. It's not like we're going, you know, down. We're still climbing. And I think, oh, my God. And there is no stopping it, no turning back, no nothing. And by the time we came down, of course, I hit the brakes. And it just makes this really loud noise. It goes. And I thought, what the hell was that? And the kids are like this. You know, I'm counting heads. They're all fine. No broken collarbones. No broken necks. And I'm like, oh, my God. And I'm like, oh, my God. And I'm like, oh, my God. And I'm like, oh, my God. And I'm like, oh, my God. And I'm like, oh, my God. And I go, what was that? And we get off the bus. And I have blown all four valve stems off the back end of that bus. And I have got to have this job. This is my insurance for a very sick husband. I cannot lose this job. And so all of a sudden, you know, the kids are like rats from a sinking ship. Man, they just pew. And so I have to get on the radio, you know. And I'm like, yeah, turtle bus to base. Turtle bus to base. And, you know, base comes on. And Billy goes, yeah, this is base. What's up, turtle bus? And the big boss man carries a radio right here on his hip. And I said, Billy, man, I don't know what happened, but I blew all four valve stems off the back end of my bus. You hear the main bus guy go, what? You know, oh, I'm in so much trouble. And, I mean, you can imagine the level of fear going through me. I am in so much trouble. This was such a stupid idea. What was I thinking? And so they're like, we'll be there in, you know, 15 minutes because I'm dead in the water. I'm not going anywhere. I'm not going to limp that baby back into the bus yard, you know. And so that 15 minutes was really difficult. I'm thinking I'm in so much trouble. I'm going to lose this job. Joe's not going to have insurance. His medical bills were over $200,000. He was already, the doc said he'll never work another day in his life. Let me tell you, that's like swallowing a tennis ball when you're a two-income family with a kid in college. It was devastating. And I'm thinking, oh, my God, my bus boss was a good man, good, solid man of integrity. I just love David to death. And they pull up and I'm standing there and, you know, and David looks up the hill and he looks at the wheels, you know. And he goes, you don't know what happened? And I swear to God, I mean, I love David. I love him. I love him. I love him. I love him. I love him. I love him. I love him. I love him. And I said, okay, well, I'll lie to you today. Okay? I said, no, sir, I don't. And he goes okay. Billy take her on back. I'll wait here until the tow truck comes. And I thought, oh, my God. Oh, my God. You know, he could have just fired me right then and there. And he didn't. I am embarrassed to tell you it took me 15 years to make that amends. Fifteen. Now most people would have said you don't have to make that. you know, the biggest harm you did was telling a lie. Well, let me tell you, I knew I had to make it. And I ended up, and he was not easy to find. As a matter of fact, I lied to find him. I called up to the bus yard. He no longer worked there. And I don't do Facebook. I don't, you know, and I didn't even know how he spells his last name. It's a last name you can spell nine different ways. So I called back up to the bus yard and I said, you know, I'm having a heck of a time finding David. And this guy goes, well, he's actually a Facebook friend of mine. What's going on? And it was Thanksgiving, November. And I said, well, actually, he was so special in my life that for the month of November, I try to find somebody that I can give thanks to. Am I good or what? And I'd like to be able to thank him. He really came to my aid when I needed him. I had a call from him in about two hours. Yeah. So I'm a big fat liar. And the guy, when he called, he said, hey, long time no see. He goes, so-and-so just called me. And he goes, so what's really up? I thought, yeah. And I mean, I was pacing in the kitchen. And I told him, I said, you know what, David? And I told him, I said, you know, I lied to you about those valve stems. And he laughed for what felt like two days. And it was that laugh. I thought, oh. And I go, I go, David, I said, you know, he goes, I knew you lied to me, Katie. And I said, well, here's the deal. You're a man of integrity and dignity and respect. And I jeopardized all your values because your whole value in life was to take care of the children, to be sure you watch for those children's well-being. And I flew in the face of that. You see the difference between saying, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I lied. See how that would be like sweeping it under the rug. And he said, you know what, Katie, I, he goes, I just buried my mom. She, he said, she's very special woman. You always reminded me of my mother. I know that's pretty. special. And he said, he said, I knew what had happened. And he said, but I also knew you. And I knew you realized what you had done was a big mistake and you would never harm those children. And he said, I also knew you were going through all that tough time with your husband. And he said, I just, with good consciousness, I couldn't let you go. And we talked for about 15 minutes and I'm telling you guys, it was unbelievable. He said, you've just restored my faith in humanity. Now that's what I'm telling you. Don't underestimate the power of these things. It was like about a 15 minute conversation. Okay. So now the one to my father, I told you that he and I had that horrific argument, right? We were sitting there arguing back and forth and, and, uh, my dad and I fought so badly all the time. He died at 72 and, uh, uh, surgery. And, uh, when we got in this huge argument right out of the gate, I said, well, I guess you're going to go back and tell Evelyn that, you know, Kate's crazy and all this stuff. And, you know, it was just terrible. And so after my dad died, I wrote my step-mom off and I didn't do any of the amends like the book says to do. I'm telling you, I made the tornado amends to really the people I would see, but that was about it. I wasn't going to go out of my way to find somebody. And that was just a decision I had made. I wasn't going to be sharing that in a meeting or anything like that. And so when we, when you come out of untreated alcoholism and you start waking up, you start asking God those questions. I need to make some amends to some people that I have not made amends to. And I said, I could not talk about my father without crying every time I talked about him. And it was so heavy on my heart and he had been, uh, cremated. So there really wasn't like a, uh, graveyard to go to. I'd written the letter. I'd done everything I could and nothing was given to me. And I said, I'm going to go back and talk to my father. And I said, I'm going to go back and talk to my father. And he said, I'm going to go back and talk to my father. And I said, I'm going to go back and talk to my father. And he said, I'm going to go back and talk to my father. And I said, I'm going to go back and talk to my father. And he said, I'm going to go back and from this pain that I had so screwed up because he died when I had like 14 years sober. And I had, I wasn't estranged from him, but I was close enough to it. And so that's why I talked to you about this being estranged. And, um, he said, God said, just quietly, the still quiet voice. You can miss it if you're not paying attention. He said, go, go make an amends to your stepmom. And I was like, no way. Just like that. Just dismissed it. Didn't even really settle in with me. I'm not doing that. And so the next day I heard the exact same voice and I heard myself that time say, I'm not doing that. And I thought, oh my God, God, why do you want me to do that? And it was because my dad loved my stepmom. He loved her. She was a very tough woman. That's why I left home at 15. Man, I couldn't get anything past her, but I could get everything past my dad. And so I blamed her for being a responsible parent. Sounds like a good, legitimate resentment. And, um, so I said, okay, I'll do that. And I mean, I got all prayed up and everything. And I called her and she's living in San Antonio, about 70 miles outside of Austin. And I said, Hey mom, you know, it's Kate. My family called me Kate. And I said, I'd like to, uh, I'd like to come talk to you if you, if you'd let me. And she goes, I'd love that. And so I said, okay, I'll do that. And she goes, I'd love that. And so I said, I'd love that. And so I said, okay. So I set up a time and I was going to go and I knew exactly what I was going to do. And can, can I share your, your, my husband is a diehard cowboy fan. I not so much. I was an Oilers fan and, uh, I just love me some Oilers and I was grew up in Houston and all of that stuff. So Charlie goes, I go, you know, I'm going to go make this amends to my stepmom. And he, he's known me forever. He knows the heartache. He met my mom and dad and, uh, and he goes, where are you going? I said, San Antonio. And he goes, Hey, you know, the Cowboys are training in San Antonio. You ought to go by there. Really, Charlie, this is so heavy. It'd be nice if you'd kind of be present for that. Right? Well, after I did the whole amends, it was so emotional. I called Charlie to tell him I'm telling him I'm crying. He goes, did you go by the Cowboys camp? Yeah. Go back to the amends. So he goes up. So I go in and I go to meet Evelyn and I'm talking my, I mean, it is just, I haven't seen her in years. And I walk in to her apartment and, and we immediately go to sit down on the couch. And I said, Oh mom, I said, let me just start by saying how sorry I am for all the heartache I caused you and dad. What, you know, and I, I mean, I just vomited like the little kid on Goonies, you know, that vomited in the second grade and blah, blah, blah. I mean, I just, just vomited all over. And I said, you know, I, I can't believe that, um, you know, I forced you guys to give me an ultimatum at 15 years old. And then I took the ultimatum and never moved back home. And how much that must've caused. I went down the list hysterical. I might add I'm crying the whole time. She has just given me tissue after tissue after tissue. And then after there was enough, she wasn't going to cut me off after I had basically said everything. She then got aggressive and she goes, now stop it. Stop doing this to yourself. Your father loved you. He always loved you. That's what I'm talking about. I really believe my dad did not love me. Now, if you're a parent, could, do you, do you not love one of your children? You can't, you can't not love your children. But I can believe that my parents can't love me. You see how, what a hypocritical statement that is. My dad loved me. I made it difficult. I was an absolute pain in the ass. You get this running and it was terrible. And so what I didn't see coming was that opened the door for me to make the amends to Evelyn. And she actually made an amends to me. She told me how sorry she was that, you know, some of the things she'd drawn lines in, sand on with me. And then that opened the door for me to get, make an amends to my step sister and my step brother. Oh, I did terrible things. I just, I was just off the chain kind of gal. You upset me. You knew it. You know what I mean? That's the kind of gal I was just off the chain. So I got to make amends to them. Matter of fact, my step sister's at my house right now, uh, stay in the weekend because she had some business in town. We try to meet every couple of months to have lunch. My step brother invited me to his wedding. It was like his eighth, but it's okay. I got, I got to one of them. He knew that we made a joke about it. And all my, and my step mom passed away. But before she passed away, when Tony was out of town, her oldest daughter, she made me the arbitrator of her medical, whatever that is. You know, if she got sick, I was the one who could sign on anything. I mean, it was unbelievable guys. This is years of separation washed away because I took that first move. To say how sorry I was for how I treated you. I wasn't looking for her to make an amends to me. And that's just what happened. And I did even say to her, I said, I'm sure dad told you what happened, uh, in Wisconsin when I was yelling at him. And she said, Oh no, honey, I knew something happened, but he never told me that something see that delusional mindset. I know he came back and told Evelyn, you know, they just love to sit around and talk about how bad I am. That wasn't at all what they did. I'm telling you, and I'm going to read these two amends letters. One of my sponsors is an amazing writer in amends. Amazing. She had said this girl that she knew in AA was having back surgery. And in this back surgery, she said, uh, my sponsor said to her, Hey, listen, if you need some help, I'll come and give you a hand. I mean, can you find yourself saying that off the cuff to somebody? It's like, Oh my, you're going to be having, if you need me call. Cause we're such givers. Now I really don't want you to call. Please don't call. Okay. So just so you know, we, we quickly throw that out there. So this was my sponsor did not show up. And two years later, it finally came to her to need to make this amends. It was long overdue, but this girl ghosted her. No, didn't want anything to do with her. So this is the letter. Cause she said, when my sponsor called her said, can I please come make the amend for, the harm I've caused you? And the girl said, no, I'm not interested. She said, can I at least write a letter as it says in there? So here's the letter. I want to apologize to you for the way I showed up in our relationship. A couple of years ago, it was during a time when you were going through some serious and frightening back surgery. I was simply the producer of confusion. And I really let you down when I dropped by the apartment one afternoon to visit by all accounts. I led you to believe I was someone you could count on someone who could be there for you in times of need. During this course of our visit, I asked you what I could do to help you. And you specifically said that you needed someone that could come by, walk your dogs, and perhaps make a trip to the grocery store during the week. I told you that I would help you where I could. See the weasel in her way back out. However, I never followed through with any effort to help you at all. I made a few lame inquiries via text message, which was nothing more than a self-centered effort to manage my reputation. I wanted to be seen as a kind and helpful friend, but all I gave you were words, unwilling to back it up with my actions. My behavior was thoughtless and inconsiderate. I was only thinking of myself. I know this was deeply hurtful to you, and you rightfully let me know. You told me the truth about my behavior, and you are absolutely right to do so. This apology is long overdue, and I want to tell you that I sincerely regret my actions. I take 100% responsibility for the harm I needlessly created you at a most crucial time in your life. I hope you are well, and I am wishing you all the good things in your life. Isn't that nice? And the reason I read it is because if you ever need to, you know, make one of these letters, you'll be able to listen to it, slow it down, re-listen to it, hear what the purpose of this letter is. She took 100% responsibility for that. Now guys, here's what we're going to do. We're going to take literally a 10-minute break so that we can get out of here at right around the 5 o'clock. But we're going to be doing the 11th step, and it's going to be short and sweet, and it's really an important step. You don't want to miss it. Don't assume you've got understanding of the complete 11th step. Open your mind to different things that can come. Okay, thanks.