Step 8 — Made a List – Rick H. – Wilson House Big Book Workshop Retreat – 2024

My name's Jerry. I'm an alcoholic. Jerry! Step 8 and 9, page 76. Now we need more action, without which we find faith without works is dead. Let's look at steps 8 and 9. We have a list of persons we have harmed and to whom we are willing to make amends. We made it when we took inventory. We subjected ourselves to a drastic self-appraisal. Now we go out to our fellows and repair the damage done in the past. We attempt to sweep away the debris which was accumulated out of our effort to live on self-will and run the show ourselves. If we haven't the will to do this, we ask until it comes. Remember, it was agreed at the beginning that we would go to any lengths for victory over alcohol. Woo! Let's see. So I'm Sonia, and I'm an alcoholic still. Hi, Sonia. Greatest gift ever. Who would know? Except all of you. Let's see. So step 8 is principle is brotherly love. So made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all. Well, what I was reminded of and I remind my sponsees of is it's just making a list. Because I can't tell you how crippling it is. To see for people to see this and say, oh, my gosh. And I just remind them, you're not at nine yet. It's just a list. It's just a list. And a lot of times, like my sponsor had me pulled from my fourth step. And that was the beginning. However, when I went through my fourth step, once again, a lot of people I thought should be. On my step 8 list didn't have to be. And people who I didn't think I should put on there needed to be on there. So once again, backwards Sonia. So I was confused about relationships my whole life and how to have them no matter what level. Whether it was friendships, work, love, whatever. And so this was really a hard step for me to understand the why I had to make the amends. Because I didn't know what healthy relationships were. And yes, I could see my part in step 4 about Sonia and my patterns. This was about seeing my part with other people, which was a whole new ballgame. And so I was a little confused. And so I was a little confused, because like I said, I was embarrassed that I didn't know how to have relationships. And I didn't want to admit that I had been blowing them up my whole life. But I was. Step 8 and 9 are concerned with personal relationships. First, we take a look backward and try to discover where we had been at fault. Next, we make a vision. And then we make a vigorous attempt to repair the damage we have done. And third, having this cleaned away the debris of the past, we consider how, with our newfound knowledge of ourselves, we may develop the best possible relations with every human being we know. And like I read in the last segment, it was, we are incapable of having proper relationships. And so we have to be more careful about how we interact with people. So I really, I don't, I don't know if I heard this somewhere, but I've been saying it for a really long time. But I call this the disease of relationships. Like it's, it really, you know, in my day job, out of all the clients I have, I would say probably 90% of them either have alcoholism or someone's alcoholism that we have to figure out. And it's just. It's so elusive. And people don't realize that behaviors of this disease, even if it skips a generation, you know, you're, the parents were raised by alcoholics who are your grandparents. So they were taught. And it just, it's just the, what we know, like growing up, it was just normal to me. So coming into the rooms, I learned what an alcoholic was, what I was. And what was alcoholic thinking, behavior when people would share. And I'd be like, huh, that's like what I do normally. That's alcoholic, huh? Maybe I should look at that. And so it was really a beginning for me to see how my relationships also were driven by my alcoholism. And I was just doing it backwards the whole time too. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. This is a very large order. Learning how to live in the greatest peace, partnership, and brotherhood with all men and women of whatever description is a moving and fascinating adventure. And for me, it really is. It really is an adventure now. I've learned a couple things. I'm not hurting people anymore. I'm not hurting myself. or, you know, I don't try to. And if I do, I can properly step up and recognize it and take care of it. So today having relationships isn't scary. But I did realize before I got here, one thing I recognized was I had a lot of social anxiety, which I did not know. I mean, I always had anxiety as a kid. My mom used to call me fingers because I was always picking stuff or like undoing jewelry or my fingers and just always, you know, I was talking 500 miles an hour. I had extreme anxiety. And I realized that I was afraid of people. And one of the reasons I was afraid of people is because I didn't have a me inside. So when I went into rooms and met people and they had their own opinions, and their own comments, I had two options to either fight with them or be a chameleon and agree with them. Because I was so insecure, I never made my own, you know, judgment on situations and beliefs. And I didn't have that inner strength to be who I am and with conviction by any stretch. So whenever I went into a room, it was like, like, wow, I have a lot of work to do. And it was very overwhelming. So social lubricants, whatever. But so I was really afraid of people, places and things. And I lied to myself, I was in denial that I was afraid of people, places and things. So I couldn't work on it. Because again, I looked at it as another way I was defective, you know. So when I was looking at my step eight list and working on it, I was like, well, there's who I am, and I'm an external you. So, I'm not, I'm actually not an internal you, I'm a full afloat that by the nature of my work and my own, I did such a great job connecting with people, I was so comfortable just thinking about what, what my role and some of my experiences, how things must. I was into it. We were my old freshman, group, boardspring and athletics. And yeah, yeah, that family career, and I made sure that my role and , I must say, my whole job, you know, was tried and tried. So, I was, I'm not going to say nerdy to myself. Yes, you wouldn't. You wouldn't for me! might next ask ourselves what we mean when we say we have harmed other people. What kind of harm do people do to one another anyway? And that was really valid. Like, it sounds foolish to say that right now when I say it out loud, but I honestly didn't know how to treat people because I was always on the take, ready to get something or ready to see what, you know, later down the road I could, you know. So I didn't have this clean way of looking. It was distorted. To define the word harm in a practical way, we might call it the result of instincts in collision. Again, the instincts. It's all natural stuff that I just went crazy with. So instincts in collision, which cause physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual damage to people. And I did a lot of that. So I had a lot of people on my list that actually went on the list. And I had people who I had to put on the list that were deceased. I had places that I had done things to that were wrong, that I had to make amends for. I had financial amends that I had to figure out from stealing stuff and something else. That was a big one. And so it was very overwhelming to have to look at those things because some of those things weren't on my step four. And once I got going in the program, I got the stuff out of state. I got to step four and told on five. And it freed up area in me for new stuff to bubble up. So more stuff was coming up. And I just had to be very diligent. And I'm really grateful that my sponsor was like, keep on track. Don't take a six-month hiatus. I don't care how busy you are. If you're not sober, you're going to lose it all anyway. She was very, boom, right to the point. And at one point, I said, do you think we're going too fast? Do you think I might be missing anything? And she said, oh, honey, you're missing a lot. But you got a lot. All right. Wow. OK. Good to know. And I had to put my kids on there. My kids went on that list. And my kids were young. And with this newfound lens and upgrade on the glasses that, I'm sorry. I'm seeing life through, I started to recognize things more. And the pain started really, or the shame, more or less, I think, of how I really had relationships. And how I took a lot of things for granted with my entitlement and my self-centeredness. And a lot of things I took personal, which wasn't intended. But my reaction to people, even when it wasn't personal, I had to look at that. Because I was so defensive. Everything people tried to say to me, I'd bite your head off. I mean, I was just on it all the time, ready to go. So it was a really awesome list to make, to clear out. And I think that's what I really learned. And I think that's what made me feel good. And I think that's what made me feel better. And I think that's what made me feel better. Because I got to see who I was by myself in step four. And then I got to see how I showed up in life to people, places, and things in step eight. And it says, whenever our pencil falters, we can fortify and cheer ourselves by remembering what AA experience in this step has meant to others. It is the beginning, of the end, of isolation from our fellows and from God. And that is an awesome promise to get. Like, if you do this, you are not in isolation anymore. You do not have to hang your head in shame. You can walk around with freedom. And people can decide if they like you or not. Because you've come clean, or I've come clean. And there is a freedom. You know, that is when I actually, step four, I unlocked the cage I was in, but I didn't walk out of it. And could have, but didn't, until I got to step nine. So, anyway, that's what I got. Yeah, it's a little darker now. But I got all the way up here. I opened my glasses case, and I must have left them at home. I opened them up, and I was shocked when I didn't have them. Yeah, but these look so fantastic. Don't they look so cool? I know. To winning. Do you want me to shine the light? No, I'm good. Just trying to be helpful. No, I'm okay. I think. Hi, everybody. I'm Rick, alcoholic. Hi, Ricky. And steps eight and nine, I love what Sonya said. You know, step eight is just that. We get all in a tizzy about what we're going to do with step eight, and who we're going to put on that list. And I had a lot of people on that list that came from my inventory. I also had a lot of people on my list of amends that I needed to make that weren't on any of my lists. And, you know, I'm not sure. I don't know if I'm going to put them on any of my lists anywhere. You know, people like my mother. I mean, I told you guys before, I put my mother on my amends list. And my dad, you know, unfortunately, I never got to make that amends to my dad. My dad died of cirrhosis of the liver from this disease. And, you know, unfortunately, he died. Thanks, Rob. I can't wait to see how bad these are. Ha ha! Oh, yeah, well, that's probably not bad. They probably look a little better, right? But anyways, you know, I had to make amends to a bunch of people that were on my list. I put my grandparents on the list. And if you guys were here on Monday, I mean, Friday night, you heard this story about me living next door with my biker friends, and how disrespectful they were. And how disrespectful I was to my grandparents. And I owed them an amends. And unfortunately, by the time I got sober and by the time they got onto this list, they were long gone. And, you know, I was told, you know, maybe write a letter. Maybe do something like that. So I did that. And I went to their grave site. And, you know, I sat there on the grass. I sat next to their grave site. And read that letter to them. And it really wasn't enough. You know, I had to sit there and have a talk with them is what I did. And apologizing for all of the stuff I pulled and the things I did next to them when I lived next door to them. I wasn't a very good grandson, to be honest with you. I was not very respectful long before I lived next door to them. Um... I mentioned my dad. My dad passed away from cirrhosis. And... Oh, this is gonna be hard. But, um... Get ready. So, but anyways, I, um... I went to bike week one year. And, um... My parents live in Daytona Beach. And we got down there and... Somebody said to us, one of my father's friends said to us, um, you need to take a look at your dad. Um... His legs are swollen. His side is swollen. And he's got some trouble going on. So we confronted him. And, um... And he ignored us. And, um... I got home from Daytona. And I called up my sister. And I told her what was going on. And she, um... She's a hard worker. She's a hard ass of the family. And, um... So she got on a plane. And she was going down there the week later. And she got down to Florida. And she walked in the house. And she said, okay, up with your shirt. Up with your pant legs. I need to take a look at you. And, uh... His legs were all swollen. His liver was inflamed. And, um... They immediately took him to the hospital. And he was going into congestive heart failure because of the liver. It didn't work. And, um... Unfortunately, he passed away. That was in April of 2003. And he passed away by November of 2003. Um... Because of this disease. You know, dying an alcoholic death can look a hundred different versions of the same. A hundred different ways. It's not just from cirrhosis of the liver. You know, it can look like jail. It can look like car accidents. It can look like overdoses. It can look a lot. There's a lot of alcoholic deaths out there. And, um... It's not a pretty sight. And, um... I never got to make that amends to him. Um... Of what I put him through as a kid. And, um... And that kind of stuff. Um... We talk about living amends. You know, you've heard that phrase. I think sometimes I think that... That has its place. I think I need to, you know, be more kind. I'm more... When I make a living amends, I think it's more like trying to... Like my grandparents, for instance. I never made... I never made that amends to them. So now, as a living amends to them, I'm more kind and considerate and caring towards elderly people. You know, especially at work. Especially in AA. Um... Try to be of service. To everyone. But I'm a little more, um... Compassionate to the elderly because of that. And I believe that that's my living amends to my grandparents for that. Um... Um... I had a bunch of people on my amends list. Um... That, um... When I made it out, I was like... You hear the stories. Yep, I'll make that amends. Maybe I'll make that amends. And definitely I ain't making that one. You know? And I believe that that's... Not a good thing to do. I, um... I put people on my amends list and... And I was willing to make that one. I was willing to make amends to them all. And, um... Somebody told me one time, they said, you know, when you get to that phase of your development here in program, that, um... You know, God's gonna be good to you. He's gonna put those people in your life. When it's time. And I believe that's true. I really do. So, here's a story for you. As, um... When I mentioned I was living with those bikers next to my grandma, I was living with those bikers next to my grandparents, and, um... I ended up... sleeping with my roommate's girlfriend. And, um... And... It was kind of one of those things that I... I hid it in the beginning, and then it ended up coming out, and, uh... And him and I were best friends forever. And when it came out, we were no longer friends at all. We lived together. You know, so here was a guy that I hung out with, I did everything with, and now all of a sudden, like a light switch, we're not even talking when we walk in the house. And, um... And, uh... So... I knew after I got sober that he was one of the ones I needed to make an amends to. And he was on my list. And, um... So now I'm sober a few years, and... And I'm, um... I'm... doing that meeting, you guys, if you remember, if you were here Friday night, I mentioned Goya Group. I was in that Goya meeting. So now here I am, I'm at the grocery store in Whitensville, Massachusetts. I don't even live near there. And I'm in that grocery store, and I'm buying coffee and cook... My cup...my basket looks like an AA meeting. You know, it's... It's creamer, cups, and cookies. Okay, so... You can imagine what that looks like when somebody looks in your basket, you know? But, um... I'm around the corner, and coming down the aisle is that guy. And I'm like, oh my God. They were right. God's gonna put that person in my life when it's time for me to make that amends. So now we make eye contact, and now it's like, hey, how you doing? What are you up to? We start talking. And we start... Reminiscing about, you know, where we are, and talking about, you know... I hadn't seen him in 20 years. Okay? Long time. And, um... And I'm having this conversation with him, and, uh... And, uh... I'm like, yeah, so what's up? You know, wherever... You know, he asked me... He looked at my... Funny, he looked at my basket, and he's like, what are you doing? And I'm like, oh, I'm in charge of buying coffee. And I'm like, oh, I'm in charge of buying, you know, coffee and cookies for a meeting I'm going to. And he looked right at me, and he said, an AA meeting? You know, how do you... How does people know that? I mean, I would look at somebody's basket. I would... If I wasn't in AA, I would never know why they had cookies and cream in their thing. I would just think that they were... Needed coffee and cookies in the morning. I saw it. But... Um... And he said, good for you. I told him I'd been sober for a while. And, um... And he said, good for you. So we got in a conversation. He asked me about if I was still married to my wife, Robin. And, you know, obviously, the answer is no by now. And, um... He... I said, so what are you doing? You still a carpenter? He was a union carpenter for a union in Massachusetts. And, um... He said, no, I'm working for my brother's plastic bag company. His brother owned a bag company. And he made custom plastic bags for anything. You know, if you wanted to make a bag, you had to make a plastic bag. And he said, well, I'm going to make a plastic bag. And I said, well, I'm going to make a plastic bag. And he said, well, I'm going to make a plastic bag. And he said, well, I'm going to make a plastic bag. No, I'm just going to make everything. You know, if you were making parts for a washing machine, he was the guy that made that little bag that they would seal. And, uh... And, you know, just all kinds of custom little stuff like that. And, um... He started to proceed to tell me that he ended up marrying that girl from back in the day and had two kids with that girl. And they were living in the town I was at the grocery store in. And I'm sitting there looking at him. And I'm like... Um... I'm trying to think of how I'm going to approach this conversation. And after hearing that he's been happily married for 20 years and his kids are 17 years old and they're about to take off to college and all the rest of this stuff, I'm sitting there going, I can't bring this up. I can't bring this up. And that step tells us that we're willing to make amends except when to harm someone, that's when we're not supposed to bring it up. And I've said to myself, this is the time. I'm not supposed to bring this up. And we shook our hands and he said, hey, we should get together someday. And he said, I live in town. And again, this is back a ways. So cell phones weren't prevalent. And 411 was still around. You could literally... You could literally look somebody up in the phone book, you know, and that kind of stuff. And he told me, I'm in the phone book. If you want to look me up, fine. And I walked out of that grocery store saying, oh my God, I can't make that amends. I wanted to, but I knew what it would do. I knew it would just bring up that harm from back in the day. It would just bring that back to light. And here he is, he's been married, happily married for 20 years. And I said, I can't do it. To save my own... To save my own ass, I can't do it. So here's another story for you. You know, back when I was 16, 17 years old, I stole one of the guys that I played hockey with motorcycle out of his garage. And I'm not proud of that, but I have to tell you, I was in a drunken stupor the night I did it and wasn't proud of it the next day. But, you know, instead of leaving, leaving it alone, I brought the bike to my neighborhood and the neighborhood kids and I just beat that bike to death. And I'm thinking, you know, he lived on one end of town, I lived on the other end of town. He'll never find out about it. Well, we live in a small town. It didn't take long for him to find out that I was the one that had taken the bike. And this was, you know, senior year in high school. My senior year in high school with him and I was terrible. He wanted to kill me. And he nearly ran me down a few times in his car. And we fought in gym class almost every day. And it was one of those things that we were, he hated me and I don't blame him. And I denied it forever. I mean, we even got the, our parents even got the cops in the car and they didn't even let us go. And I'm lying like a rug at the police station and I'm not, I didn't do it, I didn't do it, I didn't do it. And years went by, you know, and now I graduate high school and I'm getting those notifications that my class reunion is coming around and I'm throwing the things in the trash. And I'm not going to my class reunion. I wouldn't even go out for dinner in the town I lived in with fear of seeing him and fear of all of that. And it ran my life. That issue ran my life for a lot of years. And I moved away. I moved out towards Connecticut and Webster, Massachusetts. And I'm away for a long time. And one year, I think it was my 35th anniversary, high school anniversary, whatever it is, 30th, somewhere in there. And I'm living in Connecticut now. And I'm saying to myself, how the hell did they find me in Connecticut? You know, and of course, you know, the way the world is today, you can find anybody anywhere. And so I get that invitation and I'm saying to myself, this is God showing me where I need to make an amends. So I said to my wife at the time, I said, I need to go to this. And she said, you sure? And she didn't know about that history and about what had happened. And I told her the story about what I had done and how I needed to make that financial amends to this guy. And. I she said, OK, I guess. And so I. Put a pocket full of money in my pocket and I go to this thing. Sure enough, he shows up and he's over in the corner drinking with buddies at the bar and. I finally got up the nerve and walked over and I said, hey, I need to talk to you. He looked at me and he said, no, we don't need to talk. And I was like, yeah, we do. And he adamant. No. I said, you don't understand. I really need to talk to you. I said, only take a minute. We walked outside and I and I truly believed I was going to get my ass kicked that day. But but but I got outside in the in the hallway of this American Legion. And. I proceeded to tell him what I was doing. I told him that I've been in AA for a long time. And part of being in AA is is making amends for the history in our past and the things that we've done. And I said to him, I said, I really want you to understand. I said, you know, you really didn't do anything to cause that to happen. And he said, no, I'm not going to do anything to cause that to happen. I said, no, I'm not going to do anything to cause that to happen. You know, it was all me. You know, I was a. I didn't make excuses, but, you know, I did tell him, you know, I was I was drunk that night and and I've been I'm not using drugs or alcohol as the excuse, but I allowed drugs and alcohol to influence me for years before I did that. And I wasn't happy. I wasn't proud of the way. And I didn't know who I had been and what I had done. And I reached in my pocket and I said, you know, I know this affected you. I said, you know, is there anything else? You know, can you tell me how it affected you and what that deal was? And I I went to hand him the boatload of money that I had in my pocket and he looked at me and he looked at the money and said, I don't want it. I said, you don't understand. This isn't my money. You know, this is your money. This is for what I had done. I said, you know, I need to give you this. And after a little convincing, he took the money, put it in his pocket. I said, you know, I I'm sorry for all of the pain that I've put you through over the years and all of the, you know, the the things that maybe went through your head back in the day. And, you know, you didn't deserve it. And. He looked at. Me and he said, you know, Ricky said the thing that hurt the most. He said, I thought you were my friend. I thought you were one of my friends. And when I heard that you had taken it, it hurt me more to know that you had taken it then then angry. He said, I was I was hurt. I thought you were my friend. You know, and I didn't. I didn't do that for me. I did that for him. I wanted to free him up from that pain that that he'd been carrying for 30 years to. And that's what we do it for. We don't do it for us. We do it for them. I made amends to my mother. My mother loves me to death. You know, I made the amends to my mother. She looked at me like I had three heads. You know, I'd been sober a while and she would have been proud of me for that. And she said, I knew you were going to grow out of this. I just didn't think it would take so long. And, you know, Sonia jokes about it. And my family knows this. But I'm a. Favorite family. For real. It is true. And I hold that title. But. But, you know, that's the kind of stuff that we need to take a look at. You know, my son is 30. I don't know, 38, 39 years old now. And and when I got sober, he was 12 years old. And I talked to him about this one time and and making amends to him and apologizing for the childhood that I put him through. And I didn't think it was bad, honestly. But he told me that when I would be drunk, he'd be afraid. Because I would be not that loving, caring dad. I would be that impatient, selfish, self-centered. Lack of a better word. Jerk. I had some choice words, but I know it's being recorded. But but anyways, I, you know, he said, you know, he was proud of me because I got sober when he was 12. When he turned 18, told me he was going to go down and get a tattoo. And I said, do me a favor. Don't get a tattoo on your face. Like every parent tells you. I'm looking around to see if anybody's got a tattoo face. I don't mean anything by it. I'm sorry. But, you know, I said, just make sure that you put it in a respectable spot. That if you have to cover it up for a job interview or or you're trying to impress some girl's father or something, you know, you might want to just put it somewhere else. And I said, what are you going to do? And he didn't tell me. He said, I don't know. So we come back from getting the tattoo. And when he uncovered it, he had the words drug free. And I think it was because of. Those years of growing up without me. Yeah. As a drunk and a drug addict. And it probably was more of the years that I was a drunk or a drug addict. And he saw that he didn't want to be that person. And when you talk to him about it, he would tell you it's probably both. Probably both. You know, that the reason he he's living that life. And if you saw him, you wouldn't believe that he's the type of guy that lives that life. And Chris is going to demand his money back. He's crying again. But he told me if I made him cry again, he wanted a refund. I got the money for you, Chris. But I'm not I'm probably not done. So. But, you know, that that's the kind of thing, you know, that that we have to make amends for is those people in our lives that we tortured for life. You know, and to me, that's that living amends that we try to do. We try to raise our kids and teach them that that. The the good morals in life, but when we're drinking and drugging, we don't have the thoughts of their their their care or their any anything in mind at all. Oh, we're self so selfish and self centered that that we don't even see it. So pay attention to when you're making your lists and think about those people you might have affected. All of those people that that you might have tortured through your drinking years. You know, my family, I I'm lucky, I'm graced that I didn't burn my bridges with my family. You know, my my sisters still love me. Um, my brother and I are pretty close. Um, and I and I didn't wreck those relationships. But there were many relationships with friends and and people out in the real world that I that I definitely tortured. Um, you know, this disease touches us. So, uh, unbelievable places. I, um, one of my best friends growing up, we were we were drinking buddies and and motorcycle buddies. And. And we did a lot of everything together. And when he had his kids, he asked me to be a godfather. And I'm a raging alcoholic and a raging drug addict and drinking and drugging every day. And somebody would trust me with that deal. And I'll be honest with you. I wasn't a very good godfather. I didn't keep an eye on him. I didn't pay attention to him or anything. And he died of a drug overdose. It came to me at one time. His father told him, you need to go see your godfather when he was having problems with drugs and alcohol. And he said, you need to go see Rick, to go talk to Rick, because I'd been sober for a lot of years. And he came to me, and I started to help him. And in this chapter, it talks about going to any length. Remember, we go to any length to get over drinking and recover from alcoholism. And I tried to help him, and he wasn't ready. He wasn't ready. He didn't want to admit that he had a problem and didn't want to be here. And unfortunately, what do we do? You know, what do you do? And he died of a drug overdose. And I kick my ass every day that I didn't try. So I try to pay attention to that amends list. I still have people on there that I need to do that with. I'm sober a long time. I'm away from my inventory a long time. And I still have a handful of people on that list that I need to find. And I know that God will put those people in my life when it's time. I was a... I was a... And... Don't judge me for this, but... You know, I was... I was a thief back in the day. I did a lot of insurance fraud. Stealing cars. And a lot of stuff like that. And... You know, I look at my financial amends that I need to make. We talk about that sometimes here. And we look at financial amends. And, you know, owing somebody back a hundred bucks. I mean, I don't ever think that I could ever repay all the money from back when I was doing that. And... That was a long, long time ago. Some of those insurance companies probably aren't even around anymore. But, you know, I... I know that I can't make financial amends to all of that stuff. So I try to do it... In a different way. You know, I try to... Buy lunch for people. I try to buy... You know... Anonymously buy a table of total strangers dinner or something like that. Or, you know... We used to go out for breakfast after a meeting. And we'd take 20 people out for breakfast. And I would pay the bill. And leave before anybody knew that the bill got paid from us. And, um... And that kind of stuff. I mean, that's how I try to make that financial amends. You know, I don't... I don't look at, um... Some of that stuff I know I'll never write. I'll never be able to write it. But I... I can tell you that I'll never, ever... Steal... Penny candy from anybody now. You know, because of doing this. And looking at this stuff. And looking at who I was. Um... You know, making that living amends to my kids every day. I try to make sure they know I love them. And they're not afraid. You know, I, um... I try to do that on a regular basis every day. And, um... That's not who I was when I was drinking. I'm a different person today. Um... So I try to pay attention. And I'll be honest with you. I mean, when we make our amends lists... I think we continue that and do that for our lifetime. Because there's people that are going to pop up. All of a sudden, you're going to be like, Oh, shit. I forgot all about that guy. Forgot all about that thing that I stole from him. Or that drug money I forgot to pay him back. Or, um... You know, conveniently or whatever. And I've had those people. I've had them. They forgot about it. And I'm like, hey, come here. I think I owe you this. They're like, I don't remember that. And I'm like, well, I do. You know, there's all kinds of people that pop up every now and then. And I think I'm doing this for the rest of my life. I'm trying to be a better person. I'm trying to be a better father. A better son. A better boyfriend. You know, we talked about Sonia getting... This Rick. You know, the poor women before her didn't get this Rick. You know, I... That wife that I had that kicked me out from the back of my story. You know, my amends to her was leaving her alone. You know, I didn't, you know, continue to hound her and chase her down. And try to make that marriage work. And, you know, when I got sober, I talked to her. And she said to me one day, she said, I hope that you're not doing this to get us back. Because the marriage is over and the love is gone. And it's never going to happen. And I remember I looked at her and I said, you know what? I'm not doing this to get the marriage back. I'm doing this so that I don't wreck the next relationship. I get it. I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... I'm not going to ruin the next relationship. I'm going to change my behaviors so that I don't ruin the next person that comes into my life. And, you know, that's my amends to her, unfortunately. She doesn't get to reap any benefits from it. But, you know, I left her alone. And we have kids together. And I haven't... I haven't had an opportunity or a reason to have a conversation with that girl in 20 years. You know, that was the last time we really ever sat down and had a conversation. You know, I leave her alone today. I don't have to be in her life. And that's a living amends that I make to her. And, you know, I've got plenty of amends that I've made over the time. And I've had people tell me to get lost. I almost said a different thing. But I tried. You know, I... It is what it is. And... Like the big book says, you know, we're here to clear off our side of the... The side of the street. That's what it says. And I... I got the glasses because I wanted to read a couple of things. And I probably... We've got time, right? So... You know, I... I always make the comment about how there's little one-liners in the book that we need to pay attention to. And... And... You know, it says here, it says, Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be a maximum service to God and the people about us. It says here when we're making amends, it says, Under no condition do we criticize such a person or argue. It's one of those one-liners. It's one of those one-liners that I... That I always bring up and try to remember. Simply we tell him that we will never get over drinking until we have done our utmost to straighten out the past. That's that man I talked to about giving him money. You know, I had that conversation. And that's the way that conversation went was just down that road. I... I needed to do this. And I explained to him. And... Some people will take it the right way. And some people... Most people took it the right way, to be honest with you. They... They were happy to hear that I was sober. And they were happy to hear I was trying to clean up my past. It says on page 79, Reminding ourselves that we have decided to go to any lengths to find a spiritual experience. We ask that we be given strength and direction to do the right thing. No matter what the personal consequences might be. That's a... That's a... A big thing to think about when you're making your amends. It doesn't matter what's happening to me. You have to do this. You have to not shrink. And the... It's funny because it says... We have to be... I said... I... I thought it was... I must have subconsciously read that. But it says we have to be... We must not shrink at anything. We must not shrink at anything. My book is highlighted in a bunch of stuff, but... Over on page 83... It says... Their defects may be glaring, but the chances are that our own actions are partly responsible. So we clean houses... We clean houses with the family, asking each morning in meditation that our creator show us the way of patience, tolerance, kindliness, and love. Try to live my life that way. Sonia knows that. The next line on this page of 83... It says... The spiritual life is not a theory. We have to live it. Mm-hmm. And that... That's so true. I have to... I have to... To... To... Revert back to when I said, if God is or he isn't. God is everything or he's nothing. When I chose is, I have to try... I joke with people at the meeting all the time at my house. I try to be more God-like. Not that I want you guys to look at me like a god, but when I say that, I just mean that what would God do in this situation? What would God do? What would he have me do? What would he have me be in any situation? No matter what it is, what would he have me be? And that's what I try to live like. That's the spiritual life. You have to live it. I have to live it every day, every moment, and that's how I stay serene. You know, I know that my life is gonna be okay if I have God in it. My life is gonna be okay. Mm-hmm. So the next thing I guess I need to do is... I'm gonna have to... I'm gonna have to... I'm gonna have to... I'm gonna have to... I'm gonna have to... Every time I go to a cioè meeting, I'm gonna have to chat with people to so I think they you know, and then when you have a meeting that's like a meeeting. I actually... You know, sometimes it gets. When you haven't finished yet, you haven't finished it yet, that I don't feel safe, and I don't feel comfortable. You know? That it keeps me moving. process, right? So remember, this is in the ninth step after we've already making our amends and we're already cleaning house and we're doing what we need to do. And this is the ninth step promises. It says, if we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are halfway through. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past, nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves. We all know what that answer is. Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them. Always. One of those one-liners that I tell people to try to remember. They will always work if we work for them. They will always materialize if we work for them. The catch is we have to work for them. We have to do the steps. We have to get through this process of making amends. Sometimes we fail. We must realize we have been wronged. God will eventually change. Every religious Occ ve is a different. Because our belief and predictions in us mean a lot since God revealed that was why this was possible. He came first. He was legalized. time you know we we try to do this process to get a spiritual awakening right how do I know how do I know when I'm asleep is when I awake right when I wake up oh shit I was I was asleep you know I never knew I was spiritually asleep I never knew that you know until I I came to this program and I started doing the process and I started living the life that this program teaches us to do I never knew it could be so good I never knew how asleep I really was I really didn't they thank God that this program is here and you know I know we got 15 minutes left and I'm hoping that Sonia can elaborate on maybe some of the management help us for the next 15 minutes before we get started. Yeah I'll do step 9 then well I know you did both together okay well I think Rick has shared what step 9 is all about but the discipline is the principle which I had none of made a direct men's to such people wherever possible except when to do so. How can you do so well without doing something wrong? And I didn't have any of those things I definitely did not have a sense of timing or prudence or courage we shall need when we take step nine and I didn't have any of those things I definitely did not have a sense of timing or prudence or courage. but my timing before I got sober was always to just blow it up, like to get a reaction out of you. So that was not what step nine is talking about. It also, you know, when I joined AA, it was, I was, I started making amends just by joining AA. And it was, it was hard. It was painful because I had, like the rest of us, blown up a lot of relationships. And doing step nine gave me a sense of relief of who I was and what I was and how I did the things I did. And I had my children that I had to make amends to, and they were all in the same room. And I had to make amends to them. They were really young. They were six and eight. And I remember we were in the car after we were at the Discovery Museum. And one of my kids said something about saying sorry. And I just remember turning around and saying, boys, I need to talk to you. And I'm really, you know, I did sort of a, I'm sorry for some of the things and whatnot. And that was okay. It was very kind of limited. And then about six or eight months later, I sat them down individually. And I can remember telling my oldest child that, you know, I'm sorry, you know, bah, bah, bah. My sponsor also pointed out enough of the sorry baloney. You have to say you're wrong. Like you can say you're sorry, but the ego deflating part is you have to say you're wrong. And naturally it's changed behavior. You don't keep doing the same thing. But, and it was super, super sad. My child looked at me square in the eye and said, if I had been a better son, you wouldn't have done those things. Yeah. So to try to have composure and whatnot in that moment, I, I totally did not see that coming. And I had to reassure him that he was a child and, you know, we worked on that and we talked about that in therapy and whatnot, but that was a heartbreaker. That was a big deal, you know? And over the years, you know, I've really just made a living amends. And people told me when I came into sobriety, they said, you're so lucky. Your kids are so young. You have so much time. And I thought, oh my gosh, like what planet are you on? I've ruined them, you know, because I was in that state and still for a long time. And they said, oh no, no, someday you're going to realize. And they were right. I realized that I had a lot of time with my kids and they were still under, for a lack of better word, my control. Supervision. You know, they weren't 13 and 16 cars wanting to do their own thing. They were still autonomous to me. And that was a great gift because I really focused on how to do it different with my kids and showed up to be the mom that they deserved and that I wanted to always be, but didn't know how. And my younger one, oh my God, making amends to him, he said to me when I said, is there anything I left out? Because that was something else I was told. You only have your view of what you've done wrong, but you need to ask them, is there anything that you need to say? And my younger one's answer, and he's like my little spiritual, love pie, I just love both of them. But Aiden, there's just something about him spiritually. He's like my little old soul. But he said to me, well, I don't like it when you're in a bad mood. You take it out on me and then you feel better and expect me to be happy like you when I'm actually hurting. And I said, whoa. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. I will work on that. And I said, I need your help, though. I didn't know I did that, and I need you to call me out. Be brave and call me out if I do it to you. So the kids and I sat down, and we decided that this was our journey and that all of us needed to learn some stuff and that we would be transparent and honest with each other, even if we were not going to be able to do that. if we were afraid. And we also, like some families have like family meetings about like sports and stuff. Well, not mine. We had family AA meetings. We would, you know, join each other probably once a month for a long time and say, so what do we see now? What's lacking? What do we need? What do we need to work on? Like who's doing what? And, you know, over the time I could tell my youngest one was in Alateen because he started speaking the same language. And when I called this psychotherapist to see my oldest, the doctor said, you know, I don't see kids at that age. You know, that's just a whole different practice. And I don't like it either. So he said, but, you know, send them in and I'll... I'll evaluate them and we'll see if I decide. So I said, oh, okay. And I had told them kind of the history. So Astra goes in and does the thing with the therapist, comes out and I go in and Dr. Krubner looked at me and he goes, did that kid roll out of you with like a three-piece suit and a briefcase? Because he just, he can articulate amazing. And so he said yes to taking him as a patient. So Astra, was very willing to work with him. And so we all had something to talk about, which was really great. And we all felt comfortable in our own way. And so my amends with my children were really beautiful and they were very honest with me and continue to be. And I'm pleased to say, you know, that, I, well, I'm pleased to say I did not do that again to Aiden, to that. But I recognize that's what was done to me when I was little. And I didn't even notice I was doing it. And it doesn't make it right. In fact, it probably makes it even worse. But it was what it was. So that and then my, another amends that was hard was my dad. He had passed away. And, like, he, like, spun me into recovery. And my dad is a big part of my higher power. And I feel him with me all the time. And, and so I was always heard in the rooms, I'll write a letter, then go to the grave site. And I'm like, that's so hokey and it doesn't work. And, but I did because I was told to do it. So I didn't go to his grave site. I went to a place, Cotton Bridge, where we used to do a lot of things down in this nature area. And it was so powerful. Oh, my gosh, like it totally worked. And I was sitting there and my dad always loved hawks. And, like, literally, I was just, I was done reading my letter. And I was just laying on this big flat rock where I used to fish and whatever. And all of a sudden, like, it wasn't like a hawk flew in and I could see it out of my peripheral. It was just boom, right there. It was like, boom. And there was not a cloud in the sky. And it just flew around. And I watched it. And as quick as it popped in, it just popped out. I don't even know where it went. And it was just so soothing. It just totally felt like he was there. So that was really special. And then another one was my cousin, Eileen, who I stole a ton of her Mary Kay makeup when I was like nine with my neighbor, Bethany, whom which I blamed it on and swore. Up and down. It was her. Even take a lie detector test. I remember being in my parents garage saying that. And I don't even know how I knew what one was. Maybe Fantasy Island or something. I saw it. Dukes of Hazards. But so I was telling Eileen, you know, how I blamed it on Bethany and it was wrong. And and she looked at me and she said, I knew it was you the whole time. And I was like, and what raced through my head was, she still always all those years. She bought me a birthday present. She showed up at all my things like she still loved me anyway. She buys for my kid like she loves me and she didn't necessarily care. So anyway, that was a funny one. And, you know, a lot of it was I took people's peace of mind away. They were afraid for me. Like I, you know, calling my mom up and ranting and my sister. And, you know, just like they could have put the phone down and walked away for an hour and come back and been like, uh huh. And then, you know, but it was just so that was hard. And with my former husband, I made an amends. I made my amends way too early. No change behavior there. So it's been awesome with him over the years. Like we've we're together enough and we hang out and do different things. And, um, you know, one night we were having pizza and I was living in Brooklyn and we just got talking about the kids and stuff. And then I just started saying how we, oh, and you know, when I was doing blah, blah, blah. And he started bawling like he never, I, the things I did to try to make that man cry never, but he started crying. And I said, what are you crying about? And, you know, and he said, I just can't believe you see it all now. And, and so like our relationship is just grown into an amazing relationship to co-parent our kids and to be able to sit and watch volleyball and, and have our kid look over and us sitting there happy. And, you know, Aiden said to me, he goes, you know, dad's half brain dead and you're so forgiving, but you two were really wild. Like it's crazy. You're the only divorced people who can do this stuff. And like, you know, Rick will be at my house and he'll bring his girlfriend and we'll all like it's just great. Um, so it's not easy to make the amends, but wow, it feels so good to clear the path of who I was and give people the opportunity to see me for who I have been all those years. And, um, and again, in step four, I, it was the forming of one sauna, Sonia and now I was open and showing the world who there was one Sonia so I could finally just be me warts and all and then I allowed the people in my life to choose if they wanted me knowing the truth about me and there was one other one but I think we're close to out of time I don't remember what it was but oh my stepson Peter I made an amends to and and he took it really well and I too was told leave him alone okay and years later I mean I'd seen him in and out of my life but years later he sent me the most beautiful message and it talked about just you know his part my part and I was able to respond and say and he threw a lot of stuff on his dad and whatever and I was able to respond and say you know Peter you have made a beautiful life you have a beautiful family I'm so proud of the man you've become and I mean Peter's only nine years younger than me we were like siblings like his friends and I partied together like it was bad but anyway but so it was just so nice I don't know if I'll ever see him again but he loves that I like he's a musician he's a lawyer he's all these things and I like all his stuff and he'll text me and say I love that you just love all my stuff you know and and my other stepson you know he's has a lot of mental health issues and he knows he can come to me and I show up for him so it's a it's been a a good ride and living amends is definitely where it's at so thanks