Step 8 — Made a List – Donna J. – New England Big Book Workshop Weekend – 2020

We will now have our last session of the day and hear from our three step speakers on steps eight and nine. And our first speaker is Donna. Hi again, everybody. I'm Donna recovered, alcoholic, uh, step nine. So now I go out and I clean up the records of my path in the third step. I offered myself to God so that he can take away my difficulties because I'm going to be of use to him and demonstrate his power and his love as I interact with the world around me. So then I do an inventory and I get to see what it is that's interfering with you. And when I'm blocked off from others, I'm blocked off from God. So I get a chance to see that. And then I asked him to remove those defects of character that are standing in the way. And those defects are again, interfering and blocks me off from being useful. So when I go to make these amends, my real purpose, is to fit myself to be of maximum service to God and my fellows. So the constant is being useful. So that means that God saved me from me, remove the obsession for me to drink and drug so that I can be of service to him and he could use me as he sees fit. I've had amazing experiences in making amends. Again, the willingness to go to any length. I went back to my high school. I went back to places that I worked. I did a geographic move and I owed this man money. And he said he had never had anybody come back to him and offer to pay back. And he said he had a day of work. So the thing about making amends is I give people an opportunity to tell me how, what I did, affected them. It's more about listening. So I never know God's purpose when I am in front of another human being that I didn't respect, didn't pay back money that I owed. And I sit across from them and I find that my time, not only my time spent in church, but my time spent in other communities as well, I was doing with others, not only with other communities, but I was doing a lot of work, which I think, as you now, I appreciate it. them and you know I always say that this whole process is about crushing my ego and so the same people that I evaded I avoided I postponed paying I'm sitting right in front of them and I get a wonderful opportunity to see how my behavior harmed those around me and each amends I make I get freer and freer again how free do you want to be I did a lot of damage in the midwest I did a geographic move and I'm very grateful I was able to go back I owed a lot of money to a lot of people and I paid them in money orders because if I was going to pay them in a check they would have said oh no here we go again because my checks used to bounce and plus I'm not going to pay them in a check I'm giving back the universe what's theirs so it didn't matter to me whether they cast them or not I had to go back to people that I was not too keen about going back to but those were some of the most powerful men's and when I sit and ask them well how did I how did what I do affect you and is there anything else that I'm not clear on and I sat there and I listened and I saw that it was an opportunity for these people to also become free because some damage really hurt them I had a woman that I didn't want to see she was supposedly a friend but I had no idea how to be a friend and she said Donna what you did to me made me distrust women so that's what I did to her there's no amends that I can't make I make sure that I'm not harming anybody in the process so I've used a surrogate I had amends to make to men I was I didn't go back to South Bend to go back and make amends to dealers so I read those harms to a man and asked him how what I just read to you how did that make you feel there was amends I made to a woman who was happily married because I interfered with the institution of marriage with married men and I didn't go back to the wife whose husband I cheated on because it wasn't about causing her harm but I read my amends to a woman who was in a happy marriage and read what I've done to another woman and I read my amends to a woman who was in a happy marriage and read what I've done to another woman and I read my amends to a woman who was in a happy marriage and read what I've done to another woman with her husband and that woman told me how it made her feel there was a time that and I had just recently shared on the ninth step that I thought that I had made all my amends and um it's interesting my the first job I got in recovery um and I was there for 19 years I left my first job I got in recovery um and I was there for 19 years I left um last year I was in ninth step amends and so my first couple of paychecks those paychecks were not for me those paychecks were for me to pay back what I owed and the amazing thing is the next year I got an increase of $20,000 that I didn't see coming and the amazing thing is the next year I got an increase of $20,000 that I did there's some people that didn't want to see me and see that crushed my ego just as much because I realized wow I'm not that important as I think I am I made amends to my family I actually asked I made amends to my family I actually asked I made amends to my family I actually asked set a time you know this is not about set a time you know this is not about set a time you know this is not about me me me wanting to wanting to wanting to wanting to talk to you when it's convenient for me and I talk to you when it's convenient for me and I talking to you when it's convenient for me and I actually made an appointment with my mom actually made an appointment with my mom actually made an appointment with my mom and I sat down and I went over all the and I sat down and I went over all the and I sat down and I went over all the things that I was clear on and ask her things that I was clear on and ask her things that I was clear on and ask her how it made her feel I found that most how it made her feel I found that most how it made her feel I found that most people couldn't believe that I had the people couldn't believe that I had the people couldn't believe that I had the courage to make the amends but see I'm courage to make the amends but see I'm I'm protected by God. So I was willing to go to any length and put the results in God's hands. I don't know if I could have done this without God. You know, it says, before we're halfway through what happens to us, and they're talking about halfway through making amends. And I look at how I was when I was looking at untreated alcoholism on page 52. And those nine-step promises are the complete opposite. How did that happen? It all happened by me being willing to go to any length and do what I was instructed and directed to do. And God does the rest. So from having trouble with personal relationships, now I'm able to lose interest in selfish things and gain real interest in my fellows. We couldn't control our emotions. Now self-seeking slips away. We were miserable. We will know freedom and happiness. We were depressed. We will know peace. We couldn't make a decent living. Our whole outlook on life will change. We had a feeling of uselessness. That feeling of uselessness will disappear. We were full of fear. Fear of people and economic insecurity will leave us. We were unhappy. We will comprehend the word serenity. We couldn't seem to be of help to others. We will see our experience can benefit others. And then they ask us, are these extravagant promises? Well, for me, they are. But for God, they're not. And so now I can walk and look the world in the eye. I can walk freely on this planet. I don't have to duck and dodge. See, I also never know the person that I'm blocked from connecting with. They might have a message that they need to carry to me. From God and I might need a message that I need to carry to them. So I've got to make sure that I'm available to be useful, available to be present around people and not feel that I have anything to hide or be ashamed about. Mm hmm. Yeah. I am. When I talk about these experiences with God, I'm always very humbled because I don't do justice and carrying the message of what God has done in and through me in spite of me. I can't tell you And the feeling, the freedom that I got every time I was able to sit across from someone and apologize for not respecting them as human beings. Because not everybody that I was friends with, I'm friends with again, but I don't have to avoid them. There was a woman who I owed some money to, and I couldn't find her. And I had put her a men's cards because we do our list and then we make our cards and we write our homes. And we discuss them with our sponsor or step guide so that we can be clear on the harm. Because I found that some of what I thought was a harm was just the thoughts that I thought about a person. And so if I hadn't consulted with somebody, I would have went up to this person and I would have told them what I did and they would have said, huh? So how I make amends in those situations is. I have. A better outlook. About people. And appreciate people more. See, I don't have to be a fake and a phony. See, I used to have to do that for my survival. So. I had wanted to purchase something for myself. And I had went online and I realized that I couldn't hit the commit like the purchase button. And so I said, well, let me go look at my amends cards because I still had some that were unfinished and I saw that I owe this woman money. And I couldn't find her name was Karen Washington and like, there's so many Karen Washington, it's like in the New York phone book. So I wrote a letter and I put it where I knew she lived last. So I made the attempt. You know, I remember. Hearing Joe Hawk said that, you know, when you're making amends, you hear funny sounds like back in the day. Phone. Phone ringing. Knock on the door. And so a week later, I get a call from my sister. And she goes, guess who's at St. John's a divine at a trunk show. Karen Washington. See, somebody had told me that when you want to make amends, God will make amends. And she said, I don't know people appear. And again, my willingness, I was willing to believe that. See, I was willing to believe the people who had what I wanted and did what I did. And sure enough, there were people that I couldn't find that God put in my path to right my wrong. And I remember I went into I went to St. John's divine, and I saw this woman sitting in a chair and she was sitting underneath the stained glass window. And just that image of where she was sitting. I got choked up and I had a checkbook in hand and I said, Karen, I've been trying to find you. I owe you money. And that was so powerful for me because I realized that I understood why I, the money still wasn't mine yet because I still owed money to somebody else. I was standing on the 59th street train station and there was somebody on my list who I couldn't find that I was willing to make amends to. And I hear somebody call my name and I was like, Oh my God, I've been looking for this guy. So that's how my willingness to believe turned into faith, turned into trust. How, God demonstrated his power in every step of the way. I saw him demonstrate his power in four when he revealed to me who was blocking me from him. I saw it when I listened to him and I read my fifth step and that closeness and nearness I felt. And six, when I became awakened to these defects and realized, wait a minute, I'm on different footing now. I don't need to, I don't need to these character defects for survival, willing to give those up to God. I saw it when I had the power from God and the willingness to go to people. I saw it when I had the power from God and the willingness to go to people. I saw it when I had the power from God and the willingness to go to people that I never wanted to see again because I was ashamed and I realized if I want to be of use to God, this is what I have to do. Taking the pains to go back to childhood friends to high school friends to family members credit creditors. I didn't realize that when I wasn't paying my credit card bill it was affecting everybody else that did because it meant there. interest rate went up I could care less when I wasn't paying my bills. And I wasn't the first person probably to call visa and I actually told him I was textbook. I'm an alcoholic and I was slow to pay and I'm here to pay back what I owe you. They didn't act like it was it was the first time they heard it so I know I wasn't the first alcoholic that this customer service rep. But I was. The first one that I talked to a friend that came to the office and. Spoke to. And she gave me the sweet is deals. To tell you how. During that. How it affected my mom. My mom. Saami. Sitting at the kitchen table. With this. Role. Map. Of. at. This creditor sold my account to this credit company, sold to this, to that. And I sat at that table with a pen and I figured that out. What I didn't realize that my mom witnessed me doing that. So in a way, that affected my mom to see her daughter for the first time taking responsibility for her life. We don't know how God shows up in this. Between the break, I had an opportunity to chat with my mom. See, my mom for many years was the reason why I drank. Not now. My mother had changed the locks and didn't trust me in the house. Right before COVID, before Florida had put a, they closed the airport and wouldn't let New Yorkers in. We got my mom out to Orlando where she's got an apartment now. And we were selling our house. And I have a sister who's in Orlando and I was left to finish packing up the house with the moving company to get the house prepared for the new owner. They would have never trusted me to do that. Do you know how that made me feel that my family trusted me to do something that was so important? Remember, my mother had changed the locks. In Nine Step Amends, God saw fit that I could work for CEOs. Remember, I was living the world of at least. I was living the world of at least. I wasn't getting a job where I was going to work for somebody who needed to depend upon me. See, I used to say to people, oh, I'm just an EA, an executive assistant. But I realize now that it's a very important role. And my first job in recovery, God placed me to work for a CEO. I've worked for four CEOs and numerous boards. And each CEO knows that I'm in recovery. Because I was able to have conversations and be myself. And part of who I am today is the fact that I'm an alcoholic. I would have never had the right set of principles to show up in those kind of roles. But see, first, God had to show up in those kind of roles. He had to remove from me what was blocking me from being who he wants me to be. It all boils down to how free do you want to be? And it's also forgiveness. See, there was a woman who was on my resentment. I wrote so much inventory on her. And my mind kept telling me, remember what she did, remember what she did, remember what she did, remember what she did. I was like, oh, Lord. I was willing. But on some level, I wasn't willing to forgive. It wasn't until I went to a 10-day silent retreat, my mind was still enough. And I'm thinking, oh, my God, why am I thinking about this woman at this retreat? Well, the thought that came, I don't know what day, it might have been day three, day four, because we do a 10-day retreat, we lose track of days. I heard. And I felt in my heart. That this woman was driven by her own ambition. She wasn't thinking about you. And for the first time, it clicked. See, I wanted her to know how she made me feel. So I became a victim. She had power over me. I tried to make an amends, and she didn't want to listen to my amends. But I became free of that. See, I always tell people that if there's somebody on your resentment list that you're not willing to make the amends, you're connected to that. And we say the Lord's Prayer, some meetings we say it, forgive our trespasses as we forgive the trespasses of others. Well, why am I asking God to forgive me, and if I'm not willing to forgive others? It's forgiveness and love, forgiveness and love, being useful. Sometimes I just stay in prayer. And I ask God to please show me to have a forgiving spirit. Show me how. Show me how. Show me how to have love for this person. See, love and like are not the same. There's some people that I don't like, but I love them as children of God. And then Matt had alluded to it in 6 and 7. Miraculously, if we're diligent enough, there's that shift. And it's never when I think it's supposed to be, but I don't worry about when. My job is to do and to trust. Some people don't, they'll drop off at 4 and they'll drop off at 9. But I'm just very grateful that my willingness, willing to go to any length. And I tell you, they tell us what we need to bring to the deal, willingness and open mind and honesty. And I tell you, they tell us what we need to do. And I tell you, they tell us what we need to do. And I tell you, they tell us what we need to do. And I tell you, they tell us what we need to do. Let God guide you. Let God protect you. And they don't make any bones about it in the book. They said, if you might lose your job or get arrested, you don't shrink. I had to make an amends on my job recently because I was using their corporate credit card. And I was using the corporate credit card for personal reasons. And it was an Amex card. And I got tripped up that I couldn't pay the money back in one month. This was my job. This was my job. This was when I was going through the work with Al-Anon. Because I had to make sure he was okay, too. That was crazy. And every time the CFO went into the CEO's office who I worked for, I was wracked with fear because I thought the CFO was going in to talk about me. That is an uncomfortable place to be. But that's the voice in my head. Now, I'm sure the CFO. And the CEO have bigger things to talk about than me using that credit card. But that's my thinking. And so I went in. Because I told you, I don't like to feel uncomfortable today. I do not like that feeling. So I went in. I took the bit by the teeth. And I went in. I didn't get fired. They took the card away, which I expected. Because at that point, I still didn't know how to manage money. Well, I didn't get fired. If nothing else, they appreciated my honesty. I'm about to start. Well, I already started my own business. And I realized that I owed an amends to my boss that I just left. We made amends. Not amends. We kind of got back into a work relationship. But I never actually sat down and told Joe. The exact natures of my laws. I text him. Because I had stopped working for him a year now. I text him. He texts back. We made an appointment. And I actually, for the first time, told him what I had done. I consulted with somebody. And there was one thing they said, well, you may not want to say that since he was a CEO. And it may be a reflection. And how you felt he ran the company. So it's always good to consult with others. And I asked him those questions. Is there anything that I'm unclear of that you need to tell me? Is there anything I can do to make this right? And how did this make you feel? We had a nice long conversation. See, I'm a certified life coach. He is a very successful executive business coach. And we left the conversation wherever you need from me, Donna, let me know. Again, how free do you want to be? So I always feel like, I don't know, it's 5.59. I think I'm done. Nobody's giving me a 5.59. 5-minute warning. And I want to hear from Sarah and Matt. So I'm giving myself the time out. Thank you. Welcome, Sarah. Hey, everyone. Good evening. My name is Sarah. And I'm a member of Al-Anon. And, you know, when I came into the rooms in this program, I heard about people coming in and being new. And saying, ooh, I knew when I saw 8 and 9 on the door and on the wall. And I thought, I have to go do that right now. Right? I have made such a mess. I have to run out and make those amends and say I'm sorry and clean this up. And I got to tell you, that was not me. And thank goodness. I came in. I saw that. And I was terrified. And for good reason. I grew up in a family where saying I'm sorry just never happened. Cleaning up the past, you know, making things right, it was just part of a lexicon that I had never really heard. It was so unfamiliar to me. Because in my family, what we did and what we were masters of was just sweeping it under the rug. You know, oh, you make a mistake, sweep it under the rug. We do not talk about it. We are perfect. We're good to go. We're just going to move right on. And so I adopted that. And that became my mantra. Right? All growing up, I made plenty of mistakes. I caused plenty of harm. But I never, ever apologized, let alone tried to make things right. Again, it was just so unfamiliar to me. And as I grew older, I took it a step further. Instead of doing something good from what I had done, I would just torch the village and run. Right? If I harmed you. I would just going to get rid of you. We're going to leave. And I'm going to forget that that ever happened. I'm going to kill that relationship. I'm not going to try to make things right. Right? And so imagine when I come in and I have all this harm behind me. So much harm. Such a mess. And with me, what I bring is guilt and shame. So much guilt and shame. Because somewhere deep down inside, I know I've done some ugly stuff. Right? I'm not proud of the way that I've acted. A lot of the way that I've responded to life is just trying to survive and clawing at anyone and anything that gets in my way. It is all about me. And so when I first came in, I had to go through those steps in order. And when you say that, that's such an important thing, right? You're not ready at step one. I wasn't ready at step one. But through the process of going through the steps, I got right. I said, God, I got right with myself. By the time I get to step eight and nine, I'm ready to get right with the world around me. And I can honestly say by the time I got to step eight and making that list, I was ready. I remember I just had this profound sense of trust that I was going to be okay. And this is what I needed to do to continue to get well, to get rid of that guilt and shame that just burdened me everywhere I went. It was like carrying a rock back. A backpack full of rocks everywhere I went. Guilt and shame and just couldn't look people in the eye. I didn't know how to treat people well. I just didn't know how to do that and how to act with integrity. I think I really started to learn that when I got involved with eight and nine. So by the time I got to eight, right, I already pretty much have the start of a list, right? I take it from my fourth step. You know, perhaps not ironically. A lot of people that. I need to make amends to where people that I've been really, really mad at. And I get to get right with God around that and see what's surrounding that resentment. Where have I been scared? What, what happened there? And then I get to see, oh, it's time for me to clean this up. So I just start with making that list. And there are certainly people who are on that list that were not on my four step. It is not all inclusive, but I have to take that pause to see who's on it. What's the harm that I cause? What's the nature of my wrong? Talk to a sponsor about it before I go out and do it. Because the last thing I want to do when I go clean this up is just cause more harm. Again, this is so new to me. I don't know what I'm doing. I have to understand and get a good grounding for what I'm about to go and do and why I'm about to go and do it. And, you know, the point of me doing that isn't necessarily for other people so that they can be okay. What I find that is super humbling is that a lot of these people have completely forgotten about what happened, or actually don't even know what I'm talking about. Truth is, I do this for me. I do this so that I can let go of that discomfort and that disease that I've been carrying around for so long, because I don't know how to be in a right relationship with anyone else in this world. And, you know, there've been many times where I've gone through eight and it hasn't been for a long time. I need a sponsor to spot check me on that and help me understand what I'm going to make a mentor. And one of the biggest ways that that happened for me is it happened with my older sister. Older sister is nine years older than me. We had never had a great relationship. We always thought she was much more like a mother to me than anything else. And we had no relationship. So by the time I've been in the program a while, I've already made it a mentor. And I've been a mentor for a long time. And I've been a mentor for a long time. But we're on a trip and we get into a fight just like sisters do, right? This is not a normal, but we get into just a knock down, drag out fight. And we're both in the wrong, to be honest, right? She crossed some boundaries. I crossed some boundaries. I yelled, I screamed, I punished. And after that, there was no fixing it, right? We swept it under the rug. But I was still so upset. And so what my reaction was, was to punish her. Christmas came up soon afterwards. And instead of going to stay with her and her family, I went and I stayed in the same city, but didn't even see them and didn't tell her why. Didn't even have the maturity or the wherewithal to know that typically you tell people why you're mad at them. Again, just something I didn't know how to do. And so I had talked to my sponsor along the way, and we had talked about how I needed to set some boundaries with her because, again, she had caused some harm as well. But by the time I got around to doing the step work again, I get to my resentment. I get to my eight step list and I think, oh, like, do I need to clean this up again? She crossed some boundaries, right? And my sponsor looked at me and she said, Sarah, don't you think it's time to let this go? It had been probably at least nine months. And I knew that she was right. Because, again, whenever I thought of her, I didn't see her. She was in a completely other another state. I would get fired up. I would get so mad. And that is not living with peace and serenity. That is not the kind of life that I want to live today. And so beyond that, I had this this inkling that I need to share something else with my sponsor about my sister. I said, you know, last time I was home for Christmas, I was supposed to be spending some time with the kids and my sister has children. I do not have. I have children. They are the loves of my life. I will do anything for those kids. And when we were supposed to be spending time with each other, I was on the phone with my sponsor doing a 10 step. I had some stuff I really had to work through. And then I had a sponsor call me and we were doing a 10 step. Now guess what? No one in my family knows I'm doing a 10 step. No one in my family is in recovery. And so it looks like I am just hanging out on the phone, chatting it up with my girlfriends, and just ignoring those kids. And I'm like, what? I don't know what to do with those kids. Right. I saw them, you know, circling around me and I, I couldn't go tell them what I was doing. Right. So I brought that up to my sponsor and I said, did I cause harm? She said, Tara, you know what you need to make amends for? You need to talk to your sister about letting her into your program, right? You think, and you assume that your family wants nothing to do with your program, that they don't want to understand anything about it, and yet you expect them to know that when you're on the phone. You're doing a 10 step and that it's okay. Right. That doesn't work. And I thought that was so bizarre. I honestly was like, Kelly, I don't need to do this. Like, really? Really? And I thought, you know, she's my guide for a reason. I'm going to pray about it. And when I go make this amends, we'll see if God clears it up. And I get those words and I make that. So I go and I make that amends. And my sister says, Oh my gosh, you're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. I made the amends for not letting her into my program for shutting it off for making it all mine and not telling her anything about it. She said, I am so impressed by this work that you have been doing. I want to go to a meeting with you. I want more. About this program that you do. You get your sponsor. Right. And. What that amends. Dead. open the door for a better relationship with my sister. And a few months later, she called me and she said, Hey, Sarah, we're at the attorney's office. And I just want to ask you anything would ever happen to me and Keith, her husband, would you be able to take the kids? Would you be able to be their guardian? To be asked that from my sister, I absolutely hated months before who I fighting with and couldn't stand and who I didn't have a relationship with prior knocked me over. And beyond that, a few months later, I took a new job. And unbeknownst to me on day one, they tell me, you're going to be flying to Houston a lot. And so over the past two, three years, I've been going to Houston on my company's dime, getting to spend time, my family, I never would have gotten out of the way. And I tell you this, because I am 1000% confident that this is because I made that intent. This is because I was willing to take direction from someone else that I didn't even think was right, and invite God in to show me how to make something right how to show up in a relationship. And now I have a better relationship with my sister. And that's amazing to me. Perfect. But you know what, we have one today. And I would not have that without this program. And I would not have that without the offense process. And so what I want to emphasize has been so important to me with eight and nine. When I go make that amends, it is not about saying I'm sorry. The book tells me that a simple mumbling of I am sorry doesn't fit a bill. It doesn't. What matters is that I change my behavior, that I correct it, that I listen to the other person, tell me how I can make it right. And then I honestly try and do that. And I got to tell you, sometimes that is so hard, because what I need to do to correct my behavior goes against every instinct in my body. Because again, I react from fear sometimes, right? When I'm not incredibly spiritually fit, I'm going to cause harm. And sometimes I react rather than respond. And when I know that I'm not going to be able to do that, I need to change my behavior. Sometimes it just seems so hard for me to do it. Anything is possible with God. Anything. I can react with love instead of from fear. And where I've seen that the most is with my mom. My mom definitely qualifies for a chair in this program, but isn't in it. And that's okay today. But several years ago, I was not okay with that. I had this awakening that, my childhood wasn't all I thought it was cracked out to be. I honestly thought before I came into this program that my childhood was okay, because I had everything I needed materially. I had the books, the Barbies, the dolls, the bags, the clothes, everything. But I didn't have emotion. And the truth is, my parents just weren't capable of providing that for me. But I was angry. And so I lashed out at my mom. Instead of responding, I would yell at her. And ironically, a lot of the times I would yell at her saying, you need to go to Al-Anon. Now, it's so harmful, right? I mean, the irony around it, the fact that I'm yelling saying you need to go to Al-Anon, you know, it's just not how I want to behave. But it just came out and it was so visceral. And I didn't know how to stop it. And I didn't know how to be patient with my mom. And when I was in that situation, I was like, I'm going to go to Al-Anon. I've gone back and made amends for that. My mom will say, oh, it's okay. It's okay. But I know that it's not. And so even though she tells me it's okay, it's fine, you don't need to do anything. Again, this program teaches me about integrity. What do I do when no one else is watching, when no one else is holding me accountable? And I don't want to yell at her. I don't want to treat her with intolerance. And I love that the book tells me that every day in morning meditation, I'm going to be able to do that. And I love that the book tells me that every day in meditation, I should ask for patience, tolerance, kindliness, and love, especially with my family. I love the saying that my family knows how to push my buttons because they were there when they were installed. Nothing has ever been said that is more true for me. And so for me, what I have learned to do over time in this program is pause. Pause when agitated or doubtful. Pause when a button gets pressed. And instead of yelling, I can be quiet. And I can respond. Or I don't have to say anything at all, right? A lot of times, I don't have to do anything, right? I get to let other people be who they are. I get to give them the dignity of being who they are as children of God by stepping back and not trying to manage and control. And that is my default. I want to go manage and control and change you so that I feel okay. And in the process, I am causing harm because I'm not letting you be who you are meant to be. So there are countless ways, you know, that this manifests and ways that I've tried to clean up the behavior and make things right. And it's been amazing as I've gone about the process of doing that. I always feel safe and protected by God. When I go, all I have to do is bring God into those conversations. And I may not go how I expected them to, but it doesn't mean that I'm not going to matter. If I come in with expectations, forget about it, right? This is God's world. I'm here to just do one thing, and that is to clean up the wreckage of my past and ask how I can make it right. And I will tell you today, the place where I am most challenged to do that and change my behavior with my husband, right? He is the closest person to me and the best mirror for me. I get to see how spiritually, that I am and my relationship with my husband, right? He wasn't there when the buttons were installed, but somehow they get pressed sometimes when I'm around him. He's my intimate relationship, right? He is my partner. He is my family now. And so sometimes when I feel threatened in that relationship, I'll lash out. Or sometimes my kind of harm that I'm causing isn't even that obvious, right? Sometimes I'm just not able to be present with him. And he is someone who really values quality time. And I didn't have a lot of that growing up. People who just wanted to spend time with me and be with me and get to know me and get intimate just through our emotional, spiritual, all of that kind of intimacy. And so when I'm not present with him, it hurts him. And he lets me know that. And I'm so grateful that he does, because otherwise I would have no freaking idea. And changing that sometimes is so hard. Again, it feels like it's just the core of who I am. I made that excuse for so long, right? I don't know how to be present. I'm just super anxious, right? My mind is wondering all the time. I don't know, you know? That's not true. Again, this is God's world. I can change whatever behavior. I need to change my feet. I need God's help. If I could take this all on my own, I would. To be honest, I wouldn't be here. But I need you all to keep me in line and to remind me that the answer for all this is a spiritual solution. I need God. And so I think I mentioned earlier that I'm currently on my eighth step. I'm about to start taking amends. And that amends, that's exactly the amends that I'm going to need to make to my husband. It's about being present. And available, right? About being responsive rather than reactive. And it doesn't matter if I say sorry. I'm sorry doesn't mean a darn thing. What matters is changing that behavior. When I'm able to do that, that's when I'm able to make things right. Whether it's with my husband, my mom, my sister, my boss, you name it. That's what this is all about. And so I'm so blessed to know today that that's what it means. And I'm so blessed to know today that that's what it means. And I'm so blessed to know today that that's what it means. And I'm so blessed to know today that that's what it means. And I'm so blessed to know today that that's what it means to clean up my past. That's what it means to make amends. Just saying I'm sorry isn't enough. And I know that today. Because sometimes when I just instinctually say I'm sorry, I'm like, oh, no, that's not enough. And this program sponsorship helped hold me accountable to that. So thank you for teaching me how to show up in these relationships and clean up the past and let me show up and look the world in the eye. It's amazing. I wouldn't give it up for anything. So thank you. Sarah Thank you again to everyone. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you, Donna. Right. Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing. Right. How do I become willing? I continue to trust. Right. What gets me here is this systematic deflation of ego that we talked about that moves me from willingness all the way through belief, faith and to trust. And I have come into the business of trusting God. Right. That I'm taking the work that I've been doing with my sponsor. And I'm bringing it out into the world. And I think more so than sitting alone and and and dissecting what's wrong with me or the natures of my defects. And even more so than sitting with another man with a sponsor who I've developed some some measure of a relationship with at this point. It gets really scary to start. I'm looking at where I have to repair relationships that I ruined. And so, you know, the book reminds me at this point at eight, even at eight, which is just more writing. It says that I need to be reminded. That I was willing that I would be willing to go to any length for victory over alcohol. Right. And I find it's been my story, my experience, excuse me, it's been my experience that the people who drink. Or they they they they bought it for or they bought it eight and nine. Right, because these are the real this this is the real heavy lifting. Right. This is where I take the work that I've been doing with God and I present it to you in a way that shows some level of transformation in me. Right. I have now I have I have come down to to a place where I'm working on these defects. And these things that separate me from you and God. And so now I have to present myself as someone who is no longer that. Right. And it says faith without works is that it's something we hear all of the time. But what does that really mean? What does that really mean? It means faith without action. Right. If I don't if I don't if there's no no no conduct change, if there's no if there's no action behind the things that the practices that I'm taking. Now, and the moves that I'm making to get closer to God, then it's just talk. Right. And so I sit with my sponsor and I go over this list because the truth of the matter is that there are two things that can happen as I'm making this list. I can tell myself. That I devastated somebody. Right. I can tell myself that I've had such a profound impact on somebody's life in a negative way that, oh, man, I owe this. And I'll get there and they might tell me that they didn't lose a night of sleep over me at all. And the opposite might happen. I might think I didn't I don't know that person. I didn't really harm them. And the truth of the matter was that that that my toxicity. And my defective characters and my defective character, my my my my rampant behavior, this self will run right as it manifests itself in the relationships that I engage in. So I can tell myself that I did all this. And then that person. Can really do some damage without me even know. And remember, I was selfish and self centered when I got here. That is my baseline. That's my default. That's my goal to. That's just how I am. So how can I pretend to know what damages I really did? This is why, as I write out the cards that Donna spoke to, I write out the harms that I can bring to memory. But it is so important that I'm prepared to sit in front of somebody. And just listen. Is there anything I left off? Is there anything else? Because I have to be willing to let God into all of the nooks and crannies, right? God has to seep into all of the cracks, right? And if I understand truly that I'm not a bad person, I'm not a sociopath, I'm not morally bankrupt, that I was a sick and suffering person operating on my own will in the absence of God, then well, now that I'm higher power, now that I've got God working in my life, I should be willing and ready to present that person to these people in an effort to repair. And so I go to do that. I go to do that. I start. I start writing the cards, and it was told to me to grab the low-hanging fruit first, right? So I went to people like my mom, right, someone who is the embodiment of unconditional love and who I did all sorts of damage, but I knew that I was already hearing things that I'd never heard before, right? She was saying things like, Matt, I trust you. She was saying things like, these people are giving me my son back. So I knew that walking into my mother's home and telling her that I was doing this deal. And that I was on this errand to repair the damage of that relationship was going to be easy. But there were people that weren't going to be so easy. But I was getting so much reinforcement of the truth that God can bring to someone who seeks him that I was willing, except for one person. Right? Except for one. There's always one. There's always one. And so I went Thanksgiving weekend, Dr. Bob style. I went door to door, knocking on doors. I knew people would be home. Schools are closed. People are off from work. And I knew that I was going to catch people. And so I went to my mom first, and I went to my son's mother first. And then I went to my friends and all of these other people. Now, there were a couple that were really, really, really scary amends. But I grew up in this home. Remember, I told you it was me and nine women. Right? It sounds like a movie or a band or a show, right? Madden and the Nine Women. And so one of those women was the oldest of my four cousins who lived in the hall across from my mother. And now when her mom moved out of the house, she just kept the apartment with no consultation of anybody in the house and just decided that she wasn't going to pay rent. And when my mother confronted it about her, she started to get nasty. Nasty with my mom. And I'd attack her about that. Right? And I'd come at her and I'd yell at her for not paying rent. And I'd go on these drunken rants in front of her son, in front of her boyfriend. She'd bring new boyfriends into the house, and I'd talk smack about her to them about, you don't know what you're getting yourself into. Well, I wasn't paying rent when I was drinking too much. There were so many things that I was doing. I was drinking too much. I was drinking too much. I was drinking too much. I was drinking too much. I was drinking too much. Maybe what she sparked so much in me was a mirror of somebody who could take advantage of somebody I love so much. And so I was scared. You know, one night, my mom was just venting to me about how if Debbie would just pay rent, Matt, I could get on top of these bills. You think that inspired me to pay rent? No, it didn't. It inspired me to go to the liquor store. And so I went outside and I slashed all four of her car tires. And then I locked her into her apartment. I said, oh, you want to be there so much and not pay rent? And right now you're stuck in there. And I made her this villain, right, making everybody else the victim of this woman. And so on this Thanksgiving weekend, I'm coming home from making amends and I'm high, right? A spiritual high has, a chemical high has nothing on a spiritual high. And I'm coming back from this amends process. And I had just seen one of my very best friends. Growing up, actually, he was the guy I was talking about earlier. And she's coming out of the house as I'm coming in. And I looked at her and I said, Debbie, I have to talk to you. And I give her the spiel and I say to her, I said, Debbie, you know, I'm in a 12-step program. And if I'm to recover, I have to right these wrongs. And I listed what I'd done wrong to her. And I asked her if there was anything left, if there was anything that I missed and if there was anything that way I can make these things right. And I looked up at her and I looked her square in the eyes and she stopped and she said, you know, Matt, I just never thought I'd get to hug my cousin again. And when I was growing up, we didn't celebrate a lot of families. I wasn't the typical Puerto Rican house where it was salsa and beer every Friday. My mom was very reserved. She's a bit of an introvert. But Christmas was a huge deal in my family. With all of these people in the house, all of these kids, all of my cousins. Christmas was the deal. It was the one time of year. And now this is Thanksgiving weekend. She says, you know, Matt, I don't know what I'm getting for Christmas, but this is the best gift I could have gotten. And she hugged me. And I cried and she cried and I'm crying now every time I tell a damn story. And all of a sudden, years and years of damage just disappeared. I didn't earn that. I didn't earn that. I didn't earn that. I get more and more evidence of God's grace every time I take a little bit more action behind this faith that is developing in my life. And so I continue. I continue on and I'm done. And I'm sitting and I had a therapist who was 12 step oriented. He was very familiar with the program. And, you know, and so I'm sitting with him and there's this one guy, the one guy. And what happened was, is that summer of 2014 in the throes of my life, I was in a place where I was like, I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. In the throes of my disease, I had a lovely summer romance. Lovely summer romance. The only problem was that she was my friend's wife. And that rubs people a little wrong. And so a few months after I broke it off with her, he shows up at my house and he says, you know, Matt, I know the truth. And I'm begging him off and I'm, you know, trying to avoid the fight. And even telling myself, like, I'll take one punch, one punch. I want him back. Right. And so I get into the program and I say, and I'm telling my therapist about what's going on. He's asking me about the amends. And I say, you know, you know, Jamie told me he came to me. He said, don't come see me. Don't come see me. When you see me, look the other way. And I'd run into him in this process. A few times we went to the same gym and I would get. I would leave the gym and I'd turn around and I'd walk out of the gym with my tail between my legs. Sometimes it got so bad that I bought a membership to a new gym. And I'd go to a men's meeting that I went to on Saturday mornings and I'd cry about it. I'd say, you know, I'm just going to do a living amends to this guy. He probably goes home and kicks the dog and yells at his wife and gets impatient with his daughter every time he sees me. I'll just avoid him like he asked me to do. My therapist looked at me and he let me go on and on and on about rationalizing. And he said, man, you're just not willing. And now there was a measure of fear that the kids in MMA fighter, I know how to pick them right. He's going to kick my ass. And so. Thank you. And so finally. Right. That same men's meeting that I cried about. I'd went there and talked about all these spiritual experiences that I was having. And. I go to the gym afterwards, the original gym, and I'm in a zone and I'm in it and he creeps up behind me and he says the same thing he said every other time he's run into me. He said, don't you got somewhere to be? And this time I felt a peace within me that I hadn't felt before. Somewhere along the line, God had dropped a little bit of willingness into my heart. And I turn around, I said, Jamie, man, listen. And I gave him a spiel. I'm in a 12 step program. And in order to recover from alcoholism, I have to try to make, make right the wrongs that I've made. And I ran through your family with disregard for everybody. And I listed all of the other things in the ways that I thought I affected him and his wife and his daughter and all these other things. And he uncle, he was standing there with clenched fists. And his face softened. And he, he unclenched his fist and he reached his hand out to shake my hand. And he said, you know, Matt. It takes a real man to say what you said. I wish the, I wish you the best in your recovery. And enjoy the rest of your workout. And that was it. I saw him two days ago. I saw him two days ago. See, I don't get to, to, to manufacture this kind of peace and serenity. You know? And I've been in meetings where I tell that story. I said that story like in front of, in front of the whole, one of the whole fellowship of the spirit conferences. Because the book tells me that no matter how far down the scale I've gone, I can see how my experience can benefit others. And I've had, I've had sponsees who've heard me tell that story in a meeting. And come to me and say, you know, I was going to leave that affair off of my, my, my inventory. But I had the courage to say it because I heard you say it. I had somebody speak at our physical meeting. When we were speaking on step nine. And I shared after she'd shared on it. And she thanked me. She said, thank you. Because it's a really uncomfortable thing for me to talk about. You see, I no longer have to cower at the idea of what I've done. I no longer have to avoid places. Because if I'm walking around with the armor of God, there is no place that I can't go. Right? When, when Bill talks about the story of Roland. Hazard, he said, he's a free man and go anywhere that men can go. And that's what I came here for. I didn't come here to throw the envelopes in the trash or pile them up in the back of the room anymore. I'm not scared of being broke. God's always taking care of me. He's not going to leave me broke. He didn't take me through shark infested waters to have me die on the shore. He's not going to fail me now. So I look you in the eye and I say, I did some stuff. How can I fix this? I'm not asking for your friendship. I'm not asking for sunshine and rainbows. I don't expect unicorns and glitter to show up. But I am going to go there with a, with an open heart and open mind, open ears. And be willing to take whatever action I need to take to repair. Last story I'll tell because I am in the middle of going through some amends now. And then I'll end. I'll end with this. There was a woman who was my boss when I worked at a clothing store through college, four years. She gave me all the chances in the world. You know, told me not to bring my dog to work. I brought my dog to work. My dog bit somebody. I, you know, like all of these things, you know, and she even sat me down one time. She said, Matt, you know, you just think the rules don't apply to you. You have such potential. And, and, you know, surprise, surprise. It wasn't the first time I'd heard that. And so I reached out to her when I was, when I, when I discovered that she was missing off of, off of the original list. And I sent her a message on Facebook Messenger. And Facebook Messenger, if you're not friends on Facebook, it goes into a separate folder, never to be seen. And so a bunch of time passed and I couldn't, I couldn't. And I, and I wanted to tell myself that I'd made an honest effort to make this amends. But it didn't sit right with me. And one of the most. Horrible things that comes with sobriety as a conscience. Right. Because now, now the things like when the blockage shows up, it feels like somebody put a boulder in my belly. And so I sent her a friend request and I asked her to call me. And it showed that she'd read the message and left it. And I said, all right, now I really made an effort. So I sent the long message right on Messenger. She's reading the messages. The last time I saw her, I went to take my son, my newborn son, to see everybody in my old job. She wouldn't let me use the bathroom to change his diaper because they ended the policy on customers using the bathroom. And I said, I put four years of my life into here. You and I, I ripped her a new one in front of the entire store people in front of the entire staff in front of customers. And I walked out. And I tried to make amends for that in the text message. Because she wouldn't, she wouldn't receive me. She wouldn't answer my calls. And her response to me was, she said, Matt, all I ever wanted you to hear was that I wasn't trying to do you any wrong. I always saw your potential and I wanted what was best for you. And I was trying to steer you in the direction of what you could be. I accept your amends. And we talk now and we're friends. And we connect. I even sent her a picture. The other day of the pretzels, the pretzel guy in Union Square Market, because she used to always show up to work with the pretzels. And she had me carry a message to the guy who was selling pretzels. I don't have the power to put down the drink. I don't have the power. To manage my defects, to suppress them, to control them, to move them around. I don't have the power to repair relationships. But if I lean on God. If I follow directions. If I consult a sponsor. And if I let go of the outcomes and I just take the effort. My life. Transforms. Right. If my life can be grounded in a power greater than myself, it can be recreated. Recreated. Right. You hear people say, I want my life. I don't want my life back. What I have now is a new life. There is no, there is no, no, no part of me that I would want to hold on to because I've learned through reinforcement in this program. That whatever God has planned for me is far greater than anything I could ever cook up. And so I, so I just. I wake up in the morning. And I say, God surprised me. I open the door and I say. And I say, after you got. And the more that I take that kind of action. The more that I get to see God showing up. Absolutely. Right. And Donna alluded to it. Are these extravagant promises? Absolutely. They are extravagant promises for an alcoholic of my type. But after seeing what God did in the previous eight. That doesn't surprise me about God. Thank you guys. No fire, bro. Huge and special thank you to Donna, Sarah, and Matt for your awesome message of love, hope, and recovery. Thank you so much. The audio recordings for this event will be available tomorrow night. They are being uploaded to archives.org. Which is a site. That provides free public access to audio recordings. Instructions for accessing the recordings are in the chat. The information in the link will also be available on our Facebook group. New England Big Book Workshop. That ends our workshop for today. We begin tomorrow morning at 9 a.m. Thank you for joining us. Good night. Good night, guys. Thank you so much. Good night.