Step 5 and the Priest Who Told Him He Was Full of Sh*t – Russell S.

Hi guys, my name is Russell Spear. I'm an alcoholic. I'm a member of the Carl Gables Group of Outlaw Synonymous, and it's good to be here. And we're doing a thing, you know, just sort of talking about this is sort of continue and carry on from our talk last week, which is centered around actually it started to be centered around a letter that was written by Bill Wilson on emotional sobriety, the next frontier. and in the letter he details certain things he talks about how after the drinking it's all about emotional it's with us unhealthy dependencies and he gets a little more specific and this was written years after he got sober through all the depressions he had and he talks about that and I didn't bring the letter last week and I was going to bring it this week but as usually happens with me I grabbed everything except the letter which is just as well because I just soon leave that for last. I think next week I'll bring the letter, well, I'll actually read the letter to you and it was published in The Grapevine and we'll sort of talk about that. I passed around, you know, last week I passed around the 12 symptoms of a spiritual awakening. I explained I got this at an Allen on me that my wife dragged me to. I went voluntarily and so I've actually massaged them and I, you know, keep it simple. That's for guys like us. I've complicated them. You now have 24 things. I've got the 12 steps of spiritual awakening and the 12 symptoms of spiritual numbness or disease. And, you know, when in doubt, when you have an alcoholic with Tom in his hands, he's just screwing things up. Now, if you happen to read these, we'll go over a few. I went over a bunch of these things lightly last time. And you say, well, listen, there's more than these 12 things. Yes, they are. This is just my stuff. This is stuff I did just sitting around. you'll come up with 200 more things. You know, it's okay. It's not written in stone. It's just some stuff like talking points to talk about as far as emotional sobriety because that's what I really want to talk abut here, emotional sobrietty. I had a lot of fun coming up here. I want to tell you something. They say we're normally people that do not mix. You don't know what that statement means until you're riding from an Italian restaurant in a bus that says Old Cutler Presbyterian Church with 12 goy, goyim drek as we call them, you know, with 12 guys singing Hava Nagila. You know what I mean? You know, you don't know the meanness of where normally people that do not mix. So it was an incredible journey up here, so it's good to be here. I want to read you a couple of things and And it's actually one of two things that I really want to get to talk about here. And so, you know, the thing is when you talk, and I don't really plan. I have no idea what's going to come out of my mouth when I sit down, no matter what I plan. But, you Know, how impossible is it? You know, I'm sober like a little over 29 years. How impossible is het really when you think about it to sit down with a group of people and somehow, well, let me just explain to you everything I've learned in 29 years in 40 minutes. I mean, forget it. It ain't never going to happen. You're lucky if you get like � I think it's amazing if you gets like one point across. You know what I mean? Just one point of course. But the beautiful thing about the way this program works, and this is the way I feel about it, is that as long as you're trying � I learned a long time ago from the word in the 12-step, try to carry the message. I used to think we had to carry the message. When you think you've got to carry the message, that's a tough deal. Because then I've got to worry about whether you like me, whether you don't like me or whether you understand all that sort of stuff. But when you... All you have to do is try to carry the message which means you just try to do the best job you can. While you're up it could be a lousy job. It could be the worst meeting I've ever done in my life. But as long as you try and you try to be... And what I try to be is just transparent. I just try to let it all rip and not try to say things that well, I think they'll like this or maybe they'll laugh at that. I just try to say what's on my mind, what's in my heart, you know, trying to help people. And if you're honest, and really I think experience is so important. Since our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, I mean the whole thing is about our stories. I mean, let's face it, before you come in here, you're confused. You don't even know your story. You think you know your history, but you got it all wrong. I mean you're halfway into this thing before some sponsor has explained to you you don't understand what you're talking about. My sponsor said, you know as much about life as a dog knows about his father. You know what I mean? I just didn't know. I mean, the crap I believe. Hey, isn't this true? You guys, a lot of you guys have done your four-step. Isn't it true that after you do your four step, it's like a whole different world? You thought that the whole world was at fault, that you were a victim, that they were to blame, then you do four steps and say, I can't even believe these people are still talking to me. You know What I mean. Like everything switches around, you know. So it may be six months, eight months, it may Be three years before you realize you've even got a story and what your story is. You know, and then it's just amazing. And our whole deal is in our story, and our story changes. It gets refined. It gets better. It gets deeper. We learn more things, and it's all about experiencing. We've got to experience stuff. It's not even an intellectual thing where you can sit down with some guru and he explains it to you for an hour and say, oh, now I've got it. You've got go through all the pounding and the chipping and the lack of money and the disappointments. You've Got to go through everything. You've GOT to be disappointed 50 times. You'veGot hurt. You'vegot to go though the pain. You've got to go through the furnace of life as it sort of refines your story. And the great thing is you don't have to sort of try to remember it because it's your story, you were like there when it was happening. And somehow the magic is if you tell your story and I'm not putting down people, I'm just telling you the way it is out there, nobody's telling their story. Nobody talks like we do in Alcoholics Anonymous. us. You know, after AA, after you hit AA, what's the point of a cocktail party? You know, I mean, every once in a while, I got to tell you something. I went to a cocktail party. I'm still getting off the subject. It doesn't matter. I was in a cocktail party because I was helping out this judge. So they put out these judicial receptions. Somebody asked me to go. It was a friend. So, I hate this stuff. You've got to get dressed up. You've got to hang out with lawyers. Lawyers are okay, but I don't even believe I said that. I think I'm obligated to say that as a member of the bar. So I'm hanging out and they're talking about what lawyers talk about. I'm not even sure what they talk about. After you go to AA, you shouldn't be allowed to go to cocktail parties. Not because to the booze just because you might open up your mouth. And I always, I am the wrong guy to make small talk. Small talk to me always ends up explaining to the other person how he's living a depraved life and he doesn't know, I mean, it always ends up with somebody upset with me or, you know, you think they get upset with me in AA. I didn't want to tell you what happened at the last cocktail party I went to when the gal started talking to me about her husband. And I explained to her a little bit about that, and that was the end of that deal, you know? So she's never I was just trying to be helpful. You know what I mean? I thought she was asking me a question she wanted the answer. You know, but so after you go through this stuff, it's all about telling our stories and being sharing honestly. You know somehow something the way God works, it all sort of pops out of that deals. So let me read this thing, The Guy in the Glass. One of my favorite poems. I think it's so much like AA about what we do. Written in 1934, the year before AA started. It says, When you get what you want and your struggle for pelf and the world makes you king for a day, then go to the mirror and look at yourself and see what that guy has to say. For it isn't your father or mother or wife whose judgment upon you must pass. The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life is the guy staring back in the glass. He's the fellow who please never mind all the rest for he's with you clear up to the end and you've Passed your most dangerous difficult test if the guy in the glass is your friend. You may be like Jack Horner and chisel a plum and think you're a wonderful guy, but the man in the class says you're only a bum if he can't look him straight in the eye. You can fool the whole world down the pathway of years and get pats on the back as you pass, but your final reward will be heartaches and tears if you've cheated the guy on the glass. You know, and I just don't want to cheat myself or phony up with myself. And, you know, they say in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, it says our book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only a little. God will constantly disclose more to you and to us. You know, we're constantly, we even go beyond this stuff. We're going beyond, you Know, they ask me, why do I go to Bible study? Because God is constantly disclosing more to me. And he'll disclose more than you. This isn't a coffin. A is not a coffin, it's like a launching pad. I know when we first come in here, we're like little chickens. We all hang out with each other. We don't want to get... Those are the earth people. The earth people are out there. And we're okay in here. In here in Well People's Anonymous, you know? This is a scary place to hang out, you now. And listen, we got the well ones. We got the sick ones too, you kno. But I get to go out. I get venture out. I get go to other places. And it's just a wonderful experience. I was, you know, there's a great, and growing up, maturing in AA is so important. You know, I happen to go to church. I'm a Christian. You know about that. And it doesn't matter whether you're Christian, Jewish, whatever religion or non-religion, whatever spiritual walk you're on, they all talk about, they talk about becoming mature in the faith. I'm sorry. I know that the guy who woke up the earliest this morning, and I was up at 4. The guy who woke up the earliest, it doesn't matter that I got 29 years. I know there's some guy here with five minutes sobriety, but he woke up at four in the morning, and he's got more time than me. What is the line? I said, the guy who wakes up the earliest has the most sobriete or something like that. I understand that. Well, let me tell you something. You know the old thing, time, things I must earn. Things I must learn. There is something about staying sober over a period of time and using these steps and these principles, even crumbly even in a haphazard way you know, nobody does it perfectly just trying to survive one day at a time, one minute at a times without drinking, sometimes poorly sometimes your class, sometimes falling on your face there's something about surviving that crap for 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, while you're getting beaten up by life but going through it anyway, that somehow turns you in, it's like boot camp I'm sorry. I've never been a Marine. I respect them. I have some friends who are Marines, but I got to say something. I'm Sorry. There's probably a difference between a guy in the Marines before he enters boot camp and after he comes out of boot camp. There's Probably a difference, don't you think? You know what I mean? If I had my choice of who I wanted protecting me, the guy who just came out of high school or the guy I think I'm choosing the guy with the boot camp, there's a difference Between the guy was gone through the craft and got through the experience. you know that thing my sponsor used to say when a man with experience meets a man with money the man with experience will get the money and the man with money will have got an experience I know one thing it counts in court I know what they you know you know you can know the law but I'd rather know the judge trust me on that gotta watch out this thing's being recorded not that anybody would do anything wrong how do you like this so here's this it says right here do you think there are people now called synonymous think sober get stone cold sober and go to A-means and never progress past 3 months or 6 months or nine months, never progressed spiritually. You know, there is no question that it's a spiritual disease, it's not a physical disease. Once you get past the physical part, even the big book says. It's a Spiritual Disease. We suffer from a spiritual malady when the spiritual clears up, the physical and emotional, not the emotional clears up first. When the spiritual clear up, the physical and emotional clears after that. There's no question it's the spiritual disease. Don't you think there's spiritual maturity just like emotional maturity, just like physical maturity, you know there is, just from your life. You know, there are emotionally mature people in alcohols and amas, and there are people that are not emotionally or spiritually mature yet. You know? And it talks about a vision for you. You know it has that line that says every once in a while here and there a guy says, a guy, a drinker, doesn't say how long he's been drinking or how long he's had a drink, he says drive for the moment. It says drive to the moment, that's what it says. The moment could be five years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. We don't know how long the moment is. It says drive for the moment. It says feel better, look better, have a better time, picking up my medallions. Everything's great. He says we laugh at such salary. We laugh at much salary. We know our friend would do anything to pick up a few drinks and get away with it. Soon he will try the old game again because he's not happy with his sobriety. Soon he won't know loneliness as few do. Let me ask you something. Are there people that stop drinking, go to AA, go to meetings, work the steps, and drink? Are there people that do that in five years? Are there people that do that in 10 years? People that do that in 20 years? Do you know? I don't know what the statistics are. The best statistics I've seen, and maybe it's impossible to draw statistics, is that one half of 1% of people that come into AA stay sober for more than 20 years. I don't know if sure or not, but I know it's not a huge percentage. I know It's not a lot of percentage. You know how I know It's Not a Lot of Percentage? I'll tell you how I Know It's NOT a High Percentge. Because A, He's Been Around, What, For Like 75 Years? If It Was a High Percentange, We'd Have, Most of This Meeting Right Now Would Have 20 Years or More. Because They'd Be Around. They'd be Here. And You Know, In A Meeting Like This, Maybe You Have Like 5 Guys With 20 Years Plus. And The Rest Of You Know It's Just Not, It'sNot a High percentage. A Lot Of People, And You KNOW the people. You see people drink. You see them, so there is... And does the book tell us that that happens? Does it say? It says in vision for you. They saw it happen. It says because he's not happy with his sobriety. It says, when it talks about themselves, it says we've experienced much of heaven, we've been rocked in the fourth dimension of existence. Does it saying we never have problems? No, we have problems. But there's something about certain people, the manner in which they mature, that problems just make them tougher. Just they... What does it say right here? How about this one? If an alcoholic, this is the first thing, this is one of the first things they tell us. If an alcoholic fails to perfect and enlarge his spiritual life through work and self sacrifice, he cannot survive the certain trials and low spots ahead. With us it is just like that. If an alcoholic fails to perfect and enlarges his spiritual life through work and self sacrifice, he cannot survive The certain trials, is that like, well, maybe you'll have a trial? Or you might have a trail? Or you'll probably escape trials. Don't worry about it. It's like the certain trials. The certain trails. Cancer. I had a friend talk that I sponsor. He's 55 years old. I think I talked about him last week. He talked at one of my meetings on Friday. Wife, beautiful daughter. It's over 17 years. I've sponsored him for 16 years. As far as I know, he's the kind of guy, oh, he belongs to his church. He's tried to help people out. He's still trying to help People Out. Went to the doctor. They found something. He's got stage four cancer. He spoke at a meeting. He spoke in a meeting! He was incredible. He was positive. He said it's okay. He was talking about how he went to his doctor, and the doctor was telling me he had stage four cancer, and he said, well, doctor, I'll do whatever I gotta do, but you know, it's all in God's hands. And the doctor started crying and says, man, I wish I could leave. And he started telling him about his divorce he'd gone through. And he found himself lifting up his doctor's spirits, trying to minister to the doctor. Because the doctor couldn't believe. The doctor said, I Wish I Could Have What You Have. And now he's taking the doctor to church. And he's like, this is the kind of men we're talking about. This is what we're talk about. And there was a guy at that meeting, a guy at that reading who'd never heard that testimony because he was sitting outside the meeting crying feeling sorry for himself because his wife had left town for 10 days and i went out and i said joe i said you know the meeting's inside you ought to hear this guy he said yeah okay and then i walked away and he left because you know why because he was feeling sorry from self because he was filled with self-pity self-fitting you know why because sometimes self-pit he feels so good he i guess he was scared that if he went in there he might lose the self-pity. We just love feeling bad. And here's a guy with stage four cancer, and here's another guy who's physically sober who can't get out of himself. Selfishness, self-centered, that's the root of our problem. It's driven by a hundred forms of fear, self delusion, self-seeking, we step on the toes of others. Filled with self- pity. We've got more than anything, we've got to get rid of self... That's the problem. The problem is in alcohol. I mean, nobody's drinking here. after the initial bluster with AA and they come in, they stop drinking. It's all about selfishness. It's also about thinking about ourselves all the time all about ourselves and all that sort of stuff. Here it says if an alcoholic fails to perfect and enlarge his spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice for others he could not survive the certain trials and low spots ahead. With us it's just like that and that's why I wanted to well that actually is my favorite topic even at Step Means to talk about you know I even say this as much as I love newcomers I'm really attuned to the guy with 10, 15, 20 years that's having a hard time. And maybe they can't voice it to other people, and an A means you wouldn't know it because they know how to talk the talk and all that sort of stuff. I'm Really More Attuned to That. And sometimes in A it seems that we can't talk about this stuff because, you know, to talk about the stuff, you've got to talk About Things Like God and Belief and Faith and stuff like that. And, you Know, that's kind of tough for guys with one year, two years, three years and stuff Like that because they feel like you're shoving stuff down your throat, you know, but you're shoving stuff down their throat that they need to have shoved down their throat. You know what I mean? So people get all worried in AA that you're going to chase somebody out the door, you know? Or stuff like that. I mean, you know, the bottom line is, is you're either ready or you're not ready. It says in the book, it says if you want what we have and you're willing to go to any length to get it, then you're ready to take certain steps. Then you're already to take some steps. It doesn't say everybody's going to be ready to take certain steps. It doesn't even say that everybody who's going to come today is going to be ready to take certain steps. Why are we so crazy about making sure that we shouldn't hurt somebody's feelings? Or God forbid, somebody should walk out the door. So we lower the standards of AA and we don't talk about mature stuff or anything like that for fear that some guy is goingto run out the door to go, where? Where? Where is he going? What's happening? He's going to drink. What's goingto happen after he drinks? He''s goingto come back here if he doesn't die with a different attitude. Why are you stopping him? What is that deal all about? You know, why do we feel so guilty about that? You know I want to talk a little bit about that stuff. That's something I wanted to go into today. I want to read, I'm not going to read the, there's a couple of things from this that I want to talk about, a couple stories I want tell just basically from my own life. I actually went over some of these last week. I don't want to re-go over the ones that went over, but there's a couple things I want to touch upon. There were 12 symptoms of spiritual awakening. You know, and these are just sort of things, as I said, I grabbed these from an alumni meeting. I looked at them and I said man this stuff is pretty good. Because I noticed that this kind of stuff was going on in my life and it was important. One, an increased tendency to let things happen rather than force them to happen, than to try to control things. You know, my obsessive nature to try to control things. And that's something I want to talk about a little bit in conjunction with actually number 12. Two, frequent attacks of smiling and seeing humor in situations. Three, feelings or a sense of being connected. Four, acquiring an attitude of gratitude. Five, tendency to think and act spontaneously rather than from fear or guilt i spoke about that last week six an ability to live in the now and appreciate each moment boy i'll tell you i remember i don't know how i don'T KNOW WHAT THE SITUATION IS AS FAR AS HOW MANY YEARS I KNOW WE HAVE PEOPLE WITH A LOT OF YEARS HERE I REMEMBER FOR WHAT SEEMS TO ME LIKE YEARS IT SEEMs LIKE YEARS I DON'T KNOW WHETHER It was five years, ten years, or three years where I could never live in the now. I was always thinking about what's going to happen to me a week from now or two weeks from now or a year from now or what had happened to me yesterday or the day before yesterday. I could ever be in the know. I needed a sponsor or somebody so bad to sort of bring me into the now I would start talking about a problem and you know whenever I was talking about problem I'm never talking about the problem I'm going through right now I'm always talking about what's going to happen and I remember my sponsor saying to me, I remember I was in the sunset room once and he said well Russ, I started talking about a problem he says well let me ask something, how are you doing right now he says what do you mean right now he says how are You doing right Now I said what do You mean right Now he says yeah right Now so what do I mean, right Now talking to You in the sunset room he says right Now, how Are You doing Right Now talking to Me right Now in the Sunset Room I said well right Now He says, this is a problem right now. Do you need the money right now? Is there something happening to you right now?" I said, what do you mean, right now?! I said yeah, right NOW! How is it right now, is everything okay now? And I said... Well yeah, well right now everything's fine. He said, there you go and he walked away. My sponsor Joe Snyder told me a story about his sponsor, a guy named Bud Dunbar. I don't know how many of you guys knew Bud. Bud had like 40, 45 years. Remember Bud? He used to go to the Arch Creek Group. They used to have 300 people and everything like that at the Arch Greek Group. And now who knows what this story is? It's an AA story. But he told me this story. This is a story that Bud told. You know what's so great about these stories? It doesn't even matter whether it's my story. It's a true story. It still carries the power. And Bud had spoken down in Key West somewhere. and the way the story goes is as Bud told it or somebody told it Bud had spoken to Key West and he walked out on one of those piers and it was the sun was setting, it was out there on a pier and he had a sponsee there a kid he was sponsoring and the kid was all nervous, he had a few years and he said to Bud he said, does it ever get perfect? I mean does it never get okay where everything's okay and there's no problems and everything's perfect And Bud looked at him and he said, well, how about right now? How about right now? And the kid looked around. It was perfect. It was a perfect day. Everything was perfect there were no problems. But just how about now? I mean, what is that all about? That's not about even certain things. It's just about where my mind's at. My mind is so virulent It's so crazy, you know, that I, how do I get there? How do I Get There? That's the problem. You know, I'm the problem ability to live in the now and appreciate each moment, a loss of ability to worry. I talked about this last week, such a worry ward, a lost of interest in conflict, always looking to get into a fight, always looking to be pissed off at somebody. That's The Thing. That's number one offender and blocks out the sunshine of the spirit. All sorts of spiritual maladies occur as a result of resentment. a loss of interest in interpreting the actions of others or harboring ill feelings what does it take to get you mad what does is take to piss you off how long do you hold it I used to be in the back of the room he'd start talking and I'd get pissed off because he was talking, I don't know, he was breathing He was on the same planet. A loss of interest in judging others and gossiping or character assassination. I'm going to tell you a little story about that. A lossofinterestinjudgingothersandgossipingorcharacterassassination. A lossofinterestinjudgeingoneselfandobsessiveremorse. And finally, acquiring an ability to love. See, I have them for instance care about it. and there's a reason I put that in there, an acquiring ability to love without expectation. That's such an important thing. I want to talk about acquiring ability to love with that expectation and about the gossiping thing. You know, the reason I couldn't care about... Now look, this is all my opinion. I just want to let you know, not that you don't realize this, this isn't AA necessarily approved. I'm in AA. I learned all my stuff in AA You know? I'm a product of 29 years of trying to do this thing the best I can. There's probably a whole bunch of people and alcoholics than us that feel differently than me. There's probably a lot of people that would agree with me. Okay, this is just me. This is what we do in AA. I get up here. I get to talk for an hour. You leave. I like that guy. I don't like that guys. That guy's okay. Then you go to the next guy. I like the guy. You figure out what your deal is, okay? Nobody's, you know, we're just exposing ourselves to you and you get to see what this is all about. And, you knows, this isn't what you want. You know, it says if you want what we have and are willing to go to LA to get it, that means every one of us has to somehow, whether we know it or not, consciously or subconsciously are developing our we. If you want, the step before the steps is if you want what we have and are willing to go to annihilate together. Therefore, anybody who's going to become ready to do these steps have already somehow developed a we. You've developed a person or a group of people in your mind where you say I'd like to be like him, I'd love to be like her, I like what he has. It could be an amalgam of people. It can be many people that you meet and you say I want what that guy has, I don't want what this guy has. And as you develop this vision, you know, like I said in the Bible. Where there is no vision, the people perish. You develop this vision as to where this could take you and that's where you march to. You know, Ralph Waldo Emerson has a great quote. I think I have it here if I do. A person will worship something, have no doubt about that. A person will worship something, have no doubt about them. I sponsor a lot of guys. Do you know how many men worship women? worship women? Worship women. Do you know how many men in A worship women or the idea of a woman or having a woman? Do you Know how many men would sell their souls down the river and everything that's there with them for a woman I'm not putting down the women because it's not their fault. It's not the gal's fault. They're just sort of There, you know what I mean? Like a car, you know what I mean. You know, if you don't understand how many guys there are that would sell their soul for a woman, that's only because you haven't sponsored a lot of guys. You just haven't sponsored them. A person will worship something and have no doubt about that. We may think our tribute is paid in secret and dark resistances of our heart but it will out. That which dominates our imaginations and our thoughts will determine our lives and our character. Therefore, it behooves us to be careful what we worship, for what we are worshipping, we are becoming. You know? The Sermon on the Mount says, store up for yourself treasures in heaven where moth and rust do not destroy, where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, that's where your heart's going to be. It's what you're focused on. In Outlaws and Honest, the whole book is about focusing on what? Have you read that book? It says you can't manage your own life. Forget it. No human power, no woman, no man, or nothing. God couldn't would have, if he was sure. Doesn't it say there is one who has all power? That was God. Doesn'T it all push you finally to the 11th step where it says, having had a conscious contact, a relation with God, where can we improve that? Isn'T it all about focusing you on God? And isn'T that the one thing you prefer they not talk about in Alcoholics Anonymous? Because you prefer just to get the answer as to how you can get along better with Susie. Or how you can get a husband. That's what you really want to talk about. Yeah, listen, the God thing is okay, but How do I get a wife? How do i get a husband? How do we get money? How do you don't want to really want to talk about what they're talking about in that book. Anybody tries to talk about it, you get mad at them. But we know what they talk about the book. We understand what that deal is all about. So I say acquiring a building to love without expectation. Now in parentheses I have care about and the reason I had to put care about in there is I had put care back to me because I didn't know what love was. I had no clue as to what love was We sling around the word love so much. Listen, and this is just my opinion. You ready? Love is not looking forward to getting laid. In my opinion, I don't think that's love. I think that is lust. I think, no, no listen, we are all adults here. I think my entire life was spent looking for a woman so I could get something from her. my entire relationship with every woman I had had to do with having that woman so I could get something from her either some sexual gratification or some sort of feeling of being important because she liked me or being able, if she was real good looking to show her off to my friends or other people I never, ever in any relationship I had it ever crossed my mind except maybe for a nanosecond, you know, about caring about the woman. Unless the caring had something to do with getting me where I wanted to go. It was all about am I going to get sexual gratification tonight? How, you Know, Am I Going to Be Alone? It was All About Am I going To Be, I Know Exactly Who I Am. I'm that guy who was with Lynn, the gal for that one year, 365 days, who came from New Jersey and I never left her side because I had that obsessive stalking alky love because we were in love sure you guys are laughing you don't know what it's like you know what I mean where I'm always thinking about her where is she what she's doing that jealous sort of obsessive alky loves where all of a sudden one day because her parents had put her through the University of Miami and paid for her her parents actually apparently told her they would like her to come home from Christmas and she looks at me after being with me for the whole year and says, look, my parents would like me home for Christmas. And so I think I'm going to go up and spend Christmas with my parents. And I looked at her without missing a beat and I said, well, what about me? What about me?! That has nothing to do with her. I mean, you just scratched the surface. It's always about me. And if you would ask me, I would say, but I love you. And I said well, I'll just fly up too. She says no, you don't have to come. This is me and my parents and you know what I did? She left and I flew up there because it was that obsessive stalking alkylug. You know what it is? I'm here. I'm back with the hatchet. Here's Johnny, you know, the shiny. So that's why I put in parentheses where it says acquiring an ability to love, I say parentheses care about. I don't even want to use the word love. Love is used all through the Bible. Love is a great thing. But I think the real question is do I care about somebody? Do I care? Do I really care about you? Do I carry about what happens to you? Not do I want something for me. Do I care about you? And that is without expectation, without expectation. You know, that has so much to do with sponsoring. One of the things I've noticed about me as time goes on in this thing is, and it's amazing because I just notice the difference. And I don't even know how it happened. It just happened over a period of time, is an ability. I think I told this story. I'm not going to tell it again, because I know I've even told the first time a million times about how I'm with my sponsor. And he's picking up Bobby and the other guy who sponsored. And Bobby keeps on drinking over and over again. He's drinking and he keeps on picking him up and he's drinking. And I start yelling at my sponsor, I said, I can't believe you're doing this. The guy's a phony. He's a fony baloney. You know, you always pick him up. You always give him a new set of clothes. You always get him a job. You always help him out. And he says he's going to be sober. And then he's sober for 30 days. Then he drinks again. He doesn't care about you. He doesn' t care about me. And my sponsor looking at me says, Russell, it doesn't bother me like it bothers you. It didn't bother him. He cared about Bobby. He wanted to help Bobby. It didn'T bother him that Bobby wasn't sort of like reciprocating or he had no expectations on Bobby. He didn'T take it personally. and you know what is amazing to me now I guess this comes with time I think of all the poor guys I sponsored that were like guinea pigs for this how many times have I seen you know, I've never I shouldn't say I've ever, there's probably some guy out there I've actually done it to but I don't think I've every fired anybody why would you fire them as a sponsor I don' t think I' ve ever fired why would y ou fire somebody hell they'll commit suicide They'll fire themselves. They take themselves out. Why would I fire somebody? That's like me saying, that's like me saying you got me mad. You pissed me off. I'm going to get back on you. Take this. I'm firing you. Like taking personally, you're drinking. What are you doing to me? How dare you drink when I sponsor you? Now, I think I probably have done that to some people probably, but the only time I've ever done that if I've done it is because somehow, some way I was trying to make a point to them to get something across to to get serious because I thought it might help them. But I've never fired somebody as a result of being pissed off at them for drinking. You know, I'm just not that... I figure if a guy's in AA and alcohol is on him and he's drinking, you know, he's drinkin' because he's an alcoholic and he needs to drink. I'm not that important where I think he's drinkin', because, like, it's a reflection on me. I mean, how selfish is that? And one of the things But certainly, without any question, I treated guys I sponsored sort of like I treated the world. Even though I would do things for them, I expected them or I expect people in AA, I have these expectations that you should act a certain way. And one of the things that I've seen happen to me and outparks anonymously as the years go by, which really has helped me to live life and made things a little bit more peaceful for me, is this ability to work with people and talk to people and try to help people without necessarily expecting them to get well or to be well or to be anything. You know what I mean? It's OK. I'll share my experience. I'll hear about God. It's ok if you tell me I'm full of shit. It's Ok if you walk out the door. It's oK if you're mad at me. It's O K if you don't get it. It's okay if you agree with me. I have the absolute desire that you get to do this your way, whichever way you want to do it. You know, I guess it's because I'd like to think that has something to do with feeling confident and feeling good about yourself instead of having to be the way I used to be where if one, you know, like Marlon Brando says, if I go to a party and there's 300 people and one doesn't like me, I have to leave. If one guy doesn't Like me, I can't stick around here. That guy. Can you imagine that? Living your whole life, you don't know what that's like? because you'll hear some guy doesn't like you. Some guys, I won't go to that party. She's going to be there. He's goingto be there I can't go to that state. They live there. You know what I mean? Well, you know, how many times don't we live our lives that way? Our whole life is about I can' t do that because he'll see me or she'll see I mean, what a way to live your life. What does it matter if you're sober? You might as well blow your brains out if that's the kind of deal you're going to go through. How many outlaws talk like that in their head? Is that emotional sobriety? And you know the ability to sort of like state your case and be yourself and talk about things that are important. And if people buy it, fine. If they don't buy it all, fine, you just go your way and it doesn't affect your life. I don't have to sober you out. I don' t have to run out the door after you saying, why'd you leave? You know, when I asked that guy and I knew he was in there feeling sorry for himself because I am a self-pityaholic. And I knew that it was possible that if he went in and he heard my friend talk about a stage 4 cancer I knew that he might get out and it might help him you know listen we're so sick that even that might not have helped him we have the perfect ability to feel sorry for ourselves and be thumb sucking cry babies while people are dying of cancer and not even noticing it but I knew it would help him you want to know something I went out there and said you need to go in there and listen to this guy he said yeah yeah I know and I walked back to my seat you know for a second when he didn't walk in I can tell you something. Five years ago, if he didn't walk in, I would have gone out there and grabbed him by the collar and thrown him in the room. And, you know, maybe it would have worked. Maybe it wouldn't have worked, you now. It would have sort of violated, number one, an increased tendency to let things happen rather than try to force them to happen. I don't know. Maybe it would work if he said, well, thank you for forcing me, you kno, or something like that. But you want to know something? Something told me at that point in my life, at that moment in my sobriety, you want know something, if he's going to leave, let him leave, you know. I've told him and it's up to him now. Let them go. You know, everybody has to have their last drink. You know? I don't have to feel responsible. Look, I'm responsible that the hand of AA is there to greet somebody. I'm not responsible for carrying the drunk. I'm no responsible. I don' t have to get the drunk in a headlock and drag him in the room. You know that sort of thing. I want to talk a little bit about the loss of interest in judging others' gossip and our character assassination because it has to do with actually a story I'm kind of fond of. There's actually two stories, and it'll fit the time we have left. I actually learned about gossiping. I didn't actually know gossiping was bad. And I like talking about gossip because I was a gossiper. And, you know, men don't think of themselves as gossip. You know, we just talk shit. You know? And, uh, you have a different word for it. Women gossip. Like my wife gossips. You know what I mean? I don't gossip. I just, you know, every once in a while I'll talk shit about somebody. You know? It's different. It's difficult. It's not sure what it is. But, you know, talking badly about other people behind their back. And I was a bar drinker. You know, I'm not sure if it makes a difference whether you're a bar drinker or not, but I drank in bars. And when you're drinking in bars and you're drinking with guys in bars and gals, I don't know what you guys talk about. I just talk about other people behind their backs bad crap. I never Man, if I ever said anything nice about somebody who wasn't there, it was by accident. The law of averages says if you talk about an infinite number of monkeys, an infinite amount of typewriters will type out the Gettysburg Address somewhere. Well, every once in a while I'd probably say something, but it was all about, did you hear about so-and-so? Did you hear About So-and? The truth of the matter is, I've got to say, I'm a little addicted to news, 24-hour news. And that's all about gossip. It's like watching gossip. I'm not happy about it, you know what I mean? I don't think it's a good thing. I'm sort of like confessing now. But our world sort of runs on gossip, talking crap about other people and watching them play out their own lives. And I was a gosper. Now, I didn't even know it was bad. You know, they say in our book to the natural man, to the alcoholic, his life seems the only normal one. To me, it's the most normal thing in the world to spend my hours talking bad things about you. Somehow, if I can talk to you bad crap about Jesse, it makes me feel better. And I can't explain that, but it does something for me. It's sort of like scotch. You know, ifI could spend most of my time not thinking about me or not talking about God and talking about Jesse and saying bad things about him, it would make me feel good. It makes me feeL better. I don't see that like scotch, it rips out my heart, it kills my soul, does the same sort of things. And I don't understand that people who are actually sober don't do that because I've never associated with people that are sober because they scare me. They're like weird, you know what I mean? So I didn't know one day I'm sitting in a room just like sit right here and I'm standing with four guys and my sponsors there. And I just did what the most natural thing in the world was to me. And i was only about a year sober. And when I said something like this, I said, You know, that guy, Joe, he's really got a problem. Or whatever, I just started doing what I did at the Alibi Lounge. You know, I started talking about something. I didn't mean anything. And he looked at me and this is what he said. You know and it seems, you know I was always abused as a sponsor. I mean I'm an abused sponsor. So you know, abused children become abusers. You know what I mean? So it's not my fault. So I was, so he turns to me and this is what he says to me. He says, Russell, he says, this is alcoholic synonymous. He says, we don't talk about other people. We don't say bad things about other people behind their back. So unless you have something good to say about somebody, why don't you just shut up? And oh my God, you know, and I was sensitive, you Know what I mean? And this was in front of other people is like humiliating. But you know they say in the 12 and 12, they say how do we get a new perception for through humiliations a thousand humiliations the the what is it the crushing of our self-sufficiency or all that sort of stuff the bruising we get crushed that's how we learn we somehow don't get learned when we're pat on the back we learn through pain and you know and i got mad and i got upset and i i wanted to quit a and rip them apart and like my mind you know when you get attacked like that and you start thinking how can i do this and there's anything But I was so scared of drinking, and I knew somehow that being with him had something to do with not drinking. And I knew he loved me. I knew we cared about me. Somehow, some way in AA a sponsor can say stuff to you that rips your heart out, but somehow you know he loves you anyway. I can't even explain how that works. You know when somebody says something to you because they're just mean, and you know somebody says someone to you, because they care about you, even though it hurts you. And somehow I came back, and you what happened? I did what all good alcoholics do. I complied because the other disease I have is an alcohol that would like to kill me on the street but would like To save my life in AA is I wanted you to like me. I wanted You to accept it. So, you know, that thing I used to do out there where get drunk or do whatever I had to do or use whatever drug I had so that You would accept me, I did in here but with the right people, with the weed. I wanted them to accept me. So I'd fake it. I'd act like I was sober even though I wasn't sober. And then I found myself intentionally trying not to talk about other people while my sponsor was around. I even found myself like a week later saying to the people they were gossiping about, this is AA, we don't gossip about people. I'm getting like the AA police. So now I'm going to flash forward. I'm gonna tell you a story. This is a true story about gossip. It's sort of tell a story on myself. But this is how we learn. This is how We Mature. Sure. You know, when people come in here and we may have new people here, you know, and they say, well, how do you get, you know, I'd see a guy with 29 years. So I'd say a guy would 25 years. I'd said, Well, how do you got to be like he is? Or how do you get that deal? How do you feel comfortable in yourself? And you think that maybe if you read the 24 hour book and like memorize it, you'll get there. Or if you read the big book and memorize it you'll get there or if you go to a lot of meetings, you will get there and the way you get there is by going through the stuff that I went through. You've got to go through the stuff, you've got go through the deal, you gotta go through furnace, you got to go through life and life's experience. You gotta go though the laboratory, the clinical part of alcohol synonyms. You know we used to have when I used to go to college we'd have a physics test or chemistry test and then you'd have the laboratory. You have to actually go through laboratory. It's nice to study about war but it's probably different than actually being there and being shot at. You got to get shot at a couple the time. So my sponsor, I went to this retreat run by Father Al Grau who's passed away now. He's just a wonderful, wonderful man. He was head of the Palm Beach Institute for many years. I think he died with like 40 years sobriety. At the time I went through this retreat, a Dominican retreat house, I think he had like 35 years or something and he was, let me tell you about this guy. He was probably around 78 years old, 80 years old at the time, he was the retreat master. I had never been to a retreat before. He was a Jesuit priest, which is like, I'm not counting but it's high up on the top. That's like a smart priest, you know? It's like a smart priest, a priest with brains. And he had a PhD. He had a doctorate. He did a PhD in psychology. He was a war hero. He was a survivor of the March or whatever that march was with the Japanese. He spent years in a Japanese prison of war camp and he was now running the Palm Beach Institute for, you know, cocaine addiction, whatever the heck it was. So in this, and he was 35 years like an AA. So like this guy was as close to Jesus as you could possibly, I mean, this was the guy, you Know what I mean? I knew this was The Guy. If I just could touch his cloak, I would be cured, You know what I Mean? And I had had something bothering me for about eight months. And I'm not going to tell you what it is, and it's not because I'm embarrassed, but for me to explain to you what It Is would take another of 15 minutes. You know what I mean? So one of these days, maybe if you corner me, I'll tell you what the deal was. There had been something that had been bothering me. I couldn't... You know, you ever have one of those things where you can't go to sleep because it's worrying you? And then the next morning you wake up and it's worrying you. And all through the day it's worrying you, and then you go to bed again and it worries you. And then in the middle of the night, three o'clock in the morning, you wake up and you're worried about it. And then when you wakeup in the mornin', you're worryin' about it and this had been goin' on for eight months. and I was like eight years sober or something like that. Do you know what that kind of fear feels like over a period of eight months? Sober. And the kind of peer, this is a great kind of thing where you can't tell anybody because you're ready for this because at eight years over you know they won't understand. So you get to experience this all by yourself by doing things like I've got to stop thinking about this, which, does that work for you? It didn't work for me. It doesn't work well, does it, you know? This is a bad deal. So I just knew, I'm looking at this guy, I said, this is the guy. This is the God. This is The God who can help me out with this. So afterwards of the retreat, you can do either a fifth step or you can talk to the priest or something like that. So I sign up to talk to The God. And so I walk into his office. I'm not Catholic, right? I walk into his office. He's there. So I said, what can I do for you? He says, well, let me explain to you what this problem is. And I proceed to tell him about the problem. I get through about 30 seconds of it. And he holds up his hand and he says, listen, I'm not the guy. You know, this is like, it's like coitus interruptus. It ain't going to happen. I'm getting laid. I'm sorry. I've been looking forward to this. You know what I mean? You are the guy You're my bitch tonight You're going to hear this No, no, no I know what you want to get to I am not the guy He says, no You've got to hear me So finally he said Go ahead So I talked And I explained the whole story And I was finished I told him the whole thing And I said, what do you think? He says, you want to know what I think? I said, yeah, I want to Know what you think. And he says, I'll tell you What I think. And he looks at me and says, I think you're full of shit. He's got 35 years. I've got like eight years. He's a priest. You know, I'm looking like, This is like Jesus talking Or the greatest rabbi or something. He says you're, And I'm like, you know, This is life. I felt like when my sponsors said, Why don't you just shut up? You know what it means? I don't know what It is, how sponsors feel like the only way to get this thing is just beat the crap out of you, you know what I mean? He says, why don't you just he said, I think you're full of shit. And then he proceeded to beat the living crap out OF me. Explain to me in detail why I'm full of SHIT. Because of this, because of that, because of that. Like bombarding me. BAM! BAM BAM BAM. And I tried to defend myself but I was trying to come in here for help and you you know, he says listen this is the way I feel. Then he closed how, you know, guys were 35 years ago. He says, now, okay, so that's it. Just go and peace my son. You know what I mean? Whatever they do, you know? And then, so I walk out the door, I hobble out the door and let me tell you something. I walked out the door. I was so pissed off. You know what I mean. It didn't have, it hadn't left. Nothing had happened. I wouldn't, I didn't know what this guy did. I don't know what priests do, but I just know they don't do that. They can't do Hail Marys or something. They say, you know, the Lord forgives you or they do sign new. I want to report this guy to, like, the Pope or whoever you put him. Call up Rome, you know, the Vatican. They've got to pull this son of a bitch, you now. So here every person, every person I ran into on the way out of there, and I must run into about six people. I go up and I say, listen, whatever you do, don't go in and see that crazy man. The guy is a nut and blah, blah. And I'm just, like,, dragging him down and dragging him. And so I get into my room. And, you know, I'm sitting in my room. They got this little cot, a little cross over the cot. I'm standing there in my bed. I'm like this. I'm thinking, you Know how it is when your mind's going a million miles per hour? I'm Thinking about what happened, what he said, what I said, what I should have said, whatever, you know, and all sorts of stuff going back and forth. And all of a sudden, I find this into this crap, and a thought goes across my mind. You know what the thought was? Maybe he's right. Maybe he is right. And then, you You know what the next thought was? He is right. And something that had been bothering me for eight months left like that. It's like gone. Never to come back again. And it was, let me tell you something, it was a major turning point in my life having to do with people pleasing, having to deal with worrying whether people liked me. It was just gone. it was like God came in through this guy and did emotional and spiritual surgery and lifted out the tumor and it was gone and you know the crazy thing is if he had tried to sweet talk me or give me some sort of psychobabble I just know it wouldn't have happened I needed the guy to tell me right there that the knife I needed was your full of shit and he was fully prepared and capable of doing it And he didn't even want to do it. This came straight from the Lord, you know what I mean? Now here's the great part. Here's the break part. Now this is how God works because it wasn't enough for me to learn that lesson and get that deal. So, of course, now I'm grateful. Now I'm happy. Now he's the greatest guy in the world. So they call us in for the after that deal, whatever it was, the time, we go in and he's now there to give a lecture. And there's about 60 of us, and we're all crowded in the room to give lectures. So there's no time to talk to people. Or you can go up to him and say, thank you. You know, I'm weller now. Whatever the heck it was. And he gets in there to give a lecture. And he says, I want to talk to you all about something that's a real sin and something that's really something I need to talk about. And he looked right at me and says, I wantto talk to you about gossip. I wanttotalkaboutgossip. I just got finished character assassinating the guy. So of course, you know how alcoholics are. How many guys come up to me after me and say You were talking about me, weren't you? Now I don't know if he was talking about me or not. But I knew that every time his head went like this and went past me, I knew he was looking at me. I knew somebody told him that I was going around talking about him. I felt it was like ripping my heart out. And that's what... I learned a lot of lessons about gossip. Now I'm not saying I'm perfect at this. But I'll tell you something. Compared to the way I used to be, I'm real careful about What comes out of my mouth, you know, because if you're really thinking to yourself about how mature you are or where you are in this deal, you look at this thing and it says a loss of interest. If you don't think you judge others, if you don' t think you're involved in this, just ask yourself how many times you're talking about other people that aren't around you to people in a bad way. How many times are you talking about people in the bad way? Because there is no excuse for that. there is no excuse for that that's one of the things so in any event so that's enough we ran out of time next week we'll talk about Bill Wilson's letter thank you thank you for listening