Step 5 — Admitted Our Wrongs – Kathleen B. – 2026 Wilson House Big Book Workshop Retreat – with Andy B. and Kathleen B.

Brenda Alcoholic. Hi Brenda. So step six and seven passage, page 76. If we can answer to our satisfaction, we then look at step six. We have emphasized willingness as being indispensable. Are we now ready to let God remove from us all the things which we have admitted are objectionable? Can he now take them all, everyone? If we still cling to something, we will not let go. We ask God to help us be willing. Thank you, Brenda. Thanks, Brenda. Hey, my name is Andy. I'm an alcoholic. Hey, Andy. I don't know if any of you guys have noticed I've been carrying this thing around. I was a plain language big book and I got one a couple weeks ago just for fun. When I first heard that they were doing this, I was appalled, right? The idea of changing any words in the beginning of the big book sounded abhorrent to me, right? And then it was kind of explained like it literally says like a tool for reading Alcoholics Anonymous. And what I've kind of been doing, I haven't read through the book. I haven't read the book. I haven't read the book. I haven't read the book. I haven't read the whole thing yet, but I plan to. But what I've been kind of been doing is like those weird phrases where we're not sure what it means. And like, yeah, you might get like five inferences from different people. I've been like trying to find those like weird phrases. I'm just curious. Like they had a panel of alcoholics. Look at this thing. And they came to a conclusion with like one sentence, right? So I've been kind of looking at him. I thought this was funny when Kath was talking at the last session about the imperious urge, right? So I've been kind of looking at him. I thought this was funny when Kath was talking at the last session about the imperious urge, right? What they say at the, this is, this is at the end of the sex inventory. It goes, doing this takes you out of yourself and allows you to pay attention to other things. It might even help you avoid a headache or I'm sorry, avoid a heartache, right? Which I think is funny because when people are like, what's the imperious urge? I'm like, oh, that's when you get horny. Working with other alcoholics helps with that. We were kind of talking earlier about Kath brought up this idea that when that becomes a problem, I throw myself harder into working with others. And something that I think comes back for all the steps that I have to remember over and over again is kind of what we were talking about this morning with God's will for us. I don't know what's best for me, right? And I got out of treatment, and I was in there for like five months, and then I was like incapable of being with a woman for like at least six months before that, right? So I had the imperious urge as soon as I got out, right? And I was doing everything I could to quiet that imperious urge, right? And I was striking out with girls left and right and continuing to strike out over and over and over again. And that never really happened because I'd always just lowered my standards enough where it worked out. And like that wouldn't work. It wasn't working. And I'd call up Timmy, and I'd tell him about this, and he'd point me right back to this spot in the book. So that's when you're supposed to work with other alcoholics. Right? Stop worrying about yourself. Right? And I was going to, this was before I got a job, before I got a real job. I was like working at Wachusett as a snowboard instructor, but like part-time. It was like a little bit. But I was going to like 10, 15 meetings a week, and I was sponsoring like five guys at a time. I couldn't do that today. Right? But I'll tell you what. If I was chasing around a girl and if I was successful, I would be sponsoring a lot less guys. Right? I would not be capable of sponsoring five guys at a time. Right? And during that period of time, there were a bunch of guys. We were all going to the Saxonville Big Book Workshop on Wednesday night. And there were a bunch of us that were all getting sober and staying sober. I listened to a bunch of fifth steps in that period of time. You know? I'm talking about a period of months. Right? It does not say anywhere in the Big Book that you need to do this quickly. But every single example that they give is somebody that did it quickly. I mean, I'm just saying. Right? Bill did his fifth step like three days sober in a hospital gown. Right? I mean, I'm just saying. You know? So about bringing that back to God's will for us. A number of months later, I think maybe like four months later, I am bringing this. I'm back at Spectrum constantly, you know? Because I have the Imperial Surge and I'm like grabbing guys I'm supposed to meet with on Wednesday night. And I'm there on Tuesday night. And I'm like, I'm here early to read. Let's do this. Right? And I'm there doing the men's Big Book Workshop. And there's this girl doing the women's meeting in the other end of the house. Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? And, you know, if I had met Kath four months prior when I was trying really hard to meet somebody, she would have been in a relationship at that time, right? Or just freshly out of one. I don't know exactly what the math was, but, like, she would have been unavailable, right? And if I had succeeded at any point, then I would have been unavailable for her when we met, right? And what seemed like a really tough time ended up being exactly what I needed. And I sure am glad I wasn't around when they had those, like, swipe right apps. Yeah. Alex. Alex. So I just want to, I felt, like, really moved to, like, just some things happened, like, over the little period that I felt moved to say something. I'll let you go. I'll tell you a little bit about that before jumping into five. But so we get to step five, right? And it was pretty cut and dry what I was supposed to do. I took a eight-hour pass from the place I was at. When I was at Spectrum, I think I finished my fourth step over the course of, like, about six weeks or so. And then when I was about three months sober, I went and did my fifth step with Timmy. And I took an eight-hour pass from there so I could go do that fifth step. And I felt really excited to go do it. And then the time came, and I'm sitting there on the front porch waiting for him to pick me up. And I'm like, maybe I don't want to talk about all of this, right? And I started getting, like, the butterflies in my stomach and whatnot. And he brought me over to his house, which at the time, I was like, oh, my God. This guy has his own car. He's got his own apartment. He's got a girlfriend, right? There's, like, a PlayStation here. Like, this guy's living life, right? And, like, I look back on that, like, very crappy car, that very crappy apartment. The girlfriend's wonderful. But, yeah, it's funny looking back on it. But at the time, I was like, oh, my God. At the time, I was like, this is great. This guy's, like, got his shit together, you know? And I had, I don't know if it was right before or right after. It was the time that I realized, not from him, but from some other people, that he had never done this before, right? And I'm so glad that I didn't know that when I got him as a sponsor because I would have, I think I would have been like, oh, I got to get a guy with more experience, right? I think he was exactly what I needed at that moment. He was on fire, man. And I think about myself, like, sponsoring guys, like, in that period of time. Like, I was, like, just trying to, like, spread the freaking gospel, man. Like, I was, like, just out there on fire trying to, like, grab guys by the scruff of their neck and, like, bring them through the work whether they wanted to or not, you know? And I say that just to say that, like, I really, I think frequently now, like, some of the guys I sponsor, they're like, oh, my God. Some of the guys I sponsor are more effective sponsors than I am now. Because, like, I got 13 years. It's really hard for somebody with, it's really hard for somebody with two weeks of sobriety to fathom 13 years, right? Like, I couldn't. Like, there would be people that come in on a commitment. There would be somebody with three years, somebody with nine months, and somebody who just got 90 days. I would key into that guy with 90 days. That seems achievable. I'm going to listen to what this guy has to say, right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Because I want to make sure that, I usually try to not even tell how much time I have, because I'm afraid I'm going to scare him off, right? So, like, I go to sit down and do this fifth step with him, and he basically tells me we're going to go through the fourth step that I've written, right? And he kind of goes like, well, start wherever it feels comfortable. And then I was like, okay. well, when I was six, my parents got divorced. And he's like, no, no, no, no, not that kind of thing. No, no, no, no, just start at the beginning of the book, right? Like the beginning of the notebook, right? And so I just started reading The Resentments. Occasionally he would interject to get some more information or share some of his experience with that, right? And occasionally we'd get to something and we'd talk a little bit more about it or he'd point out a pattern, right? This guy, Rob Lemos in middle school, I tried to make a joke and it was a bad joke. Not like inappropriate, it was just like crappy, like nobody laughed, right? And he made a joke about... He made a joke about me making a bad joke and everybody laughed, including like four cute girls, right? So I was like, this person is my sworn enemy. I hate him for the rest of my life, right? And then I decided to hate everybody that ever reminded me of Rob Lemos, right? And he was like this like good looking guy. He wore like, The Gap had like the khaki pants at the time. He's wearing like fancy khaki pants to like middle school, you know? Got the, you know? I hated him. And the fact of the matter is like, he was actually a really nice guy. He's a super nice guy. He never did anything bad to me ever, or I think anyone. He was just genuinely a nice person that happened to be more attractive than me. You know? And funnier. And funnier. Much funnier. That's good. So Timmy helped point out to me that like there was a bunch of people in my resentment inventory that actually was just that same resentment, right? It was just people that reminded me of Rob, right? And then we got to something. And which now what I do is I give my sponsees an opportunity to say right at the beginning, if there's anything that you like is like weighing on you and you need to like get off your chest like right now, like we can do that first or we can wait to wherever it comes up. Because for me, I had that like pit in my stomach, like it's coming, it's coming, it's coming, it's coming. And then finally I got to the thing, right? And I got to the thing. And I got to the thing. I got to the thing and that I literally never uttered out loud to another human being in my entire life, right? And never talked about it with anybody. And it ruled my brain for years, decades, right? And I don't think I ever went an hour without thinking about it. And I had this internal self-talk of like, you suck, you're an idiot, right? Like every time it would come up, right? I'm not good enough, you know, it'd pop into my head when I was with a girl, like, oh my God, I'm broken, I'm broken, you know? And I said it out loud to Timmy and it was gone. Like in that moment, I'm not saying like that happens for everybody the same way, but like for me in that moment, it was gone and it never had power over me ever again. And Timmy didn't have the exact same thing happen to him, but it was something similar, you know, and it wasn't even like anything like super terrible. It wasn't anything anybody like did to me. It was just a bad circumstance. And, you know, he made me feel like, you know, I wasn't that weird and I wasn't like a bad person and I shouldn't be ashamed of myself. And it was, you know, and now it's, and now it's something that I really don't think about unless I'm talking about it. I'm talking about the fifth step. It used to rule my whole life. And it's also something that like, you know, when I'm doing a fifth step with another guy today, like if they have something similar, it's something that I can bring up to them and say, hey, this, this is, this is my thing, right? And it doesn't have to rule you for the rest of your life, right? And that was a really powerful moment for me. And they get to the, were you going to talk about the fifth step promises? I didn't know if that was one of your tabs. You go ahead. All right. Thanks. Um, it goes, uh, uh, we pocket our pride and go to it, illuminating every twist of character, every dark cranny of the past. Once we have taken this step withholding nothing, we are delighted. We can look the world in the eye. We can be alone at perfect peace and ease. Our fears fall from us. We begin to feel the nearness of our creator. We may have had certain spiritual beliefs, but now we begin to have a spiritual experience. The feeling that the drink problem has disappeared will often come strongly. We feel that we are on the broad highway, walking hand in hand with the spirit of the universe. Um, this was described to me. I can't remember if it was a speaker tape or another guy in a meeting or maybe it was Timmy. I don't even remember. But, um, the way they always see it. So like, there's this. There's the period of meditation that happens after the fifth step. We get one hour, right? You get a one hour break in your steps. They keep telling you, we got to do this next. And this has to happen next. And this happens. And you get a one hour break and then you keep doing the next one and the next one. Right. And, uh, but that one hour, that one hour meditation in between, right? We, uh, I had read ahead, right? So I knew it was coming and I was very worried about it because I'm unable to stop my brain from racing constantly. The idea of being sitting in silence, no screen, no music, no conversation, no book. Right. I can't, I can't do that. That's very frightening. Right. And, um, I got to that moment alone. Here's a crazy thing for that moment alone. He knew that I didn't have anywhere to go. He left me in his house. He left for an hour. In his house. house with his flat screen TV and a PlayStation. He trusted me, right? So that was kind of huge. It had been a long time since anybody trusted me with anything like that, right? And I sat there with his cat named Lois Wilson. And what felt like it was going to be an hour ended up, I thought it was going to be this grueling hour, and it ended up feeling like five minutes. And it was just done. And the way that I've had it described is you're sitting in a room that you think is silent. You think it's perfectly quiet in here. And then all of a sudden, the heater or the air conditioner shuts off. And there's this new level of silence. You didn't even realize the noise was there, because the noise was just white noise. It was just stuff happening all the time and all of a sudden, it's gone. And that's how I felt after I completed that fifth step. I felt at perfect peace and ease that I could look the world in the eye. All of these promises came immediately true when I finished my fifth step. And before I pass over to Kath, I'll just leave you with the other thing. We've said a bunch of times, like, you know, I had this. You know, some people had, I had what I felt like was this, like. Big experience with the third step. And I had some fourth step stuff that was, like, big and powerful to me. And I had this big experience with the fifth step. There's some people that, if you're sitting there and you're like, I've been writing my fourth step and I didn't feel anything. Or like, when I got done with my fifth step, it was like, yeah, whatever. Just keep waiting, right? It's going to happen. Not everybody has that big moment with the third step or the fourth step. Sometimes the resentment doesn't go away in the fourth step. And it doesn't go away in the fifth step. Sometimes that resentment doesn't go away in the fourth step. Sometimes that resentment doesn't go away until I make those amends, right? Sometimes that resentment doesn't go away until I'm sponsoring another person. And I'm sitting there, and this guy's telling me about the resentment that I have, right? Because he's talking about himself. And I'm saying, I can't believe this guy's pissed about this. And I'm like, oh my god. This is me, right? So if you're sitting there going, like, am I doing it right? You know? So ask yourself this. Has your sponsor had a spiritual experience as the result of these steps? And if so, are you doing what they did? And if so, then you're on the right path. You're doing all right. OK? I got to pass over to you, and then we'll do six and seven after. OK, sounds good. I'm Kathleen. I'm still an alcoholic. Hi, Kathleen. And yeah, I think that when I got, the great thing about doing a fifth step with your sponsor is that you probably know them pretty well by the time it's time to read your fifth step. So you hear about, every now and then I'll randomly hear somebody say, oh, did it with a local priest, or I don't know, whatever. And it's like, you can do a fifth step with anybody, of course, but it made sense to do it with my sponsor because she had been guiding me through this whole process. So. I trusted her so deeply with my truth. And she had already shared a lot of her own. And so why is it important for us to do this step? The best reason is we might not overcome our drinking if we don't do an honest fifth step. So I also had a couple of things that I was pretty hesitant to say out loud to another person. And I will just, I mean, just like any other time that I've shared my experience, honestly, with someone else in this program, it was received with so much love and understanding. And being able to hear my sponsors also, like her experience with maybe not an identical situation, but like. She. Understood. And she had similar feelings. And yeah, I mean, I have done more than one fifth step. And in those times, I have felt very safe and loved. It's also an honor to hear a fifth step. So yeah, similar to Andy, when I was early on sponsoring, I sponsored so many women. And I felt like I would like. Work and then meet with, and then work, go to work. You know, I'm a teacher. I would go to school and then school would get out. And then I'd like go, like go work out or whatever, maybe. And then like meet with a sponsee before the meeting and then go to the meeting. And that was like five days a week. You know, like I didn't have kids. Like I wasn't in a relationship or anything. Like I was just like, and even when I got in a relationship, like we were like both doing the thing. So it was like, yeah, like I got to go meet with a sponsee. You know? And when I got to hear a fifth step for the first time, I was so honored, you know? And so if you haven't done a fifth step before and you're looking for like the right person, it's like, you know, if I develop a relationship with a sponsor and I get to the point where I'm at the end of my four step, chances are I'm going to feel really comfortable and ready to read it to that person. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And the sponsor at the time, she had like two young teenage daughters. She was a single mom. And Jen, like she just carved time out of her weekend to like come listen to me or read to her. And I was like, oh my god. Like she's moving all this stuff around. And I'm just like, I'll forever be grateful. You know what I mean? That like she knew how important it was to me to give her that, to give me that time. And I continue to feel honored when I'm in that role. When they get through talking about all the important reasons why we should do a fifth step in the book, and then they get into this part about the fifth step promises, I was so scared that at this point it wouldn't work for me. And I had had a lot of issues with being alone and being OK with being alone. So. Mm-hmm. Before I started drinking alcoholically, I'd had an eating disorder from a young age. And when I stopped drinking, my eating disorder came back. And early sobriety was like really brutal for me. Like really, really brutal for me with like binging and purging. Like it was just like a really lonely, sad time. And like the only time I felt safe was when I was at meetings. And I hated being alone. And it was getting better. Like the more I did step work, I saw like all areas of my life getting better. And I thought, though, that like this wasn't going to work. And I was never going to be able to like be alone and be OK without like engaging in self-harming behavior. And when I did my fifth step, and it says, we felt. Sorry, I'm looking for the exact line and highlight it. Yeah, we can be alone at perfect peace and ease. Cheers. I really experienced that in my fifth step. I felt like so close to God. I felt so close to my sponsor. Even though she left and I was alone, I just like, I was like. I think the beginning of a spiritual experience for me was like feeling like things were going to be OK. You know, it wasn't like there was no white light. There was no burning bush. Like you know it wasn't like God whispered to me or like, you know. It was just like this sense of like, I think, I'm fine. And it was just like, yeah, it's like, I feel better. I feel much better. I feel like you're a better person. Yeah. You're a better person. You're a better person. Yeah. I feel better. like I'm gonna be okay um and it's continued to be like a million more little moments of that like I think I'm on the right path I think things are gonna be okay um and so when she came back from that hour and um you know asked me like how are you doing everything and you know we talked um she did ask me like is is there anything that you forgot that you didn't want to say and like I for me I had told her everything but whenever I come back to a sponsee after that hour I always ask them that question and some people have wanted to say something to me after that hour that they weren't that they hadn't shared before so it's like it's a really good question to ask people you know um is there anything that you had left out and like then going through like okay so like then that means I actually like to read them all the questions on page 75 because they're talking about like you know are our stones properly in place have we skimped on the cement put into the foundation like there's been this metaphor throughout like the step work of like we're building an archway um and like we're talking about like okay so like this is the foundation that everything's going to be built up from and so like if we can answer to our satisfaction then like we can talk about step six and um I think that step six like people are always like feeling like the big book is lacking because it's like two paragraphs you know there's like it's like six and seven like it's like I want more you know but they're really simple steps and they're really like they're god steps they're the part that has to do with me is like my willingness and my willingness is directly tied to how objectionable my character defects are to me so like if I if I have identified that they are extremely objectionable in my fifth step then like I'm probably going to be more willing to let god take them away and um and the part that's hard is like just because I decide that I don't want that to deal with this character defect anymore doesn't mean like I'm gonna ask god and then like poof it's gone right like and it's not about me like focusing in and like lasering in on like character defect each day and like I'm gonna work at it you know it's it's it's really about like building up awareness around what my actions are when I'm engaging in that character defect what those behaviors are that are objectionable asking god to increase my awareness so I can pause before I begin or pause even after it started and um and and and that really pushes me into my seven step prayer because the whole point of me asking god to take away these character defects it isn't so I can be happy but I think that's what I deserve is to be happy because that seems like a normal expectation in life if you ask any human being I'm sure like the whole prayer is pointing me toward being useful um like asking god to take away my character defects so that I can be useful to god and my fellows and and the amazing thing about learning to be useful and focusing my energy on like god's will being of service is like the byproduct is joy I mean it's crazy like that high that I was seeking through alcohol and drugs and add the list you know the the list goes on and on of things I tried to do to like be happy in life like none of them gave me the amount of like joy that I got from being of service in AA it's a crazy high you know um it and it isn't that I'm just getting to tell god what the things are that he needs to take away because I think I have an idea of the things that are objectionable to me but like in the prayer it literally says like my creator I'm not willing that you should have all of me good and bad whatever that means to you and it kind of sounds a little bit like the third step prayer right like once again like I don't know what's going on here I'm just gonna give all of me to you you know and you get to decide god like you remove every single defective character that stands in my way in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows um and that doesn't happen right it doesn't happen right away and um one of the things that I was reflecting on when it comes to six and seven is like I remember asking my sponsor um well what do you do if like you keep lying even after you've said the prayer you know um like I say the prayer but I'm like you know because I wanted to be like struck honest and um she said why don't you act as if you're an honest person I was like huh so like you know like imagine what an honest person would say or do in this scenario and like pretend to be an honest person see what just see what it's like you know and feel it out yeah and like what that sounds like is like being fake right it sounds like disingenuous it's like oh I'm gonna be and people say that in AA they say fake it till you make it right I'm here there's so many slogans that are like funny little things that you hear in early sobriety and you're like okay whatever and uh that's you know what like I use that with like elementary students you know they're coming in they've got this like bad mindset in the morning and they're like I don't want to be here you know whatever they've got this like idea and I'm like maybe we just gotta fake it till you make it you know like start your day over at any time yeah like we're just gonna we're gonna pretend that we're gonna be here we're excited to be here and we're gonna pretend that we have the right attitude about this and we're gonna do the next right thing and then sometimes our thinking and our feelings change so I pretended to be an honest person and with God's help and my sponsor and making mistakes and reflecting on them like I remember there was a day I was supposed to go to the RMV to get something taken care of on a car and I had plenty of time to do that and I was like time to get it taken care of you know there was like nothing it was a priority but I didn't go that day whatever I made other priorities right and then uh he asked me about it you don't even remember this is like years ago he asked me about it like oh I go oh yeah I got yeah I took care of that I took care of that and uh and then I went like the next time I had you know like it was like the next time I could go I went right away to like cover it up that I and then I told my sponsor like I lied to Andy that I went to the RMV and she's like why would you lie to him you know I'm like I was so worried what he would think of me because I had all this time he would judge me for not having taken care of this important task you know you would never do that to me though no and so so like I had to own the mistake right so practicing being an honest person hey I lied to you about this thing I'm really embarrassed that I lied to you I was more embarrassed in the moment of what you thought of me for not getting it taken care of and this old like instinct kicked in that like this is what I need to do to be okay I need to lie to you right now um and uh and today it's like I'm a pretty honest person you know and um and I make mistakes um but I like I navigate that um I just had like a really interesting conversation with a co-worker recently and um she was like making choices that didn't feel good for me this is like in the last month and I got to like say to her like when you did this it made me feel uncomfortable and if we're gonna have like a good honest working relationship together like I want you to know how that felt so um you know moving forward like this is this is what I think would work better for us you know and like she was really receptive to that and like we worked through that but in the past I would have just pretended that that didn't bother me like be another part of being dishonest is like pretending everything's fine sure right I'm not going to tell you how I feel and I'm going to go talk behind your back right gossip obviously that's another character defect but like it's amazing today like how the 12 steps helps me in all areas of my life in all of the relationships and so I get to practice being an honest person today you know as we go through the four step um we're uncovering these like patterns of behavior and with with the support of like a higher power and God and like putting pen to paper and then like we get to sit down in the fifth step and like our our sponsor points out like what is even more of a pattern like oh yeah it's like it's see this is happening again and again and again right like we discover these um these patterns and these like behavior they're like survival instincts run amok I think they say that in the 12 and 12 and it really resonated for me like these were the things I thought I needed to do to survive but they like they don't serve me right like it's not fight or flight mode like there isn't a tiger chasing me so I can like calm my like nervous system down and I don't have to act out of that like survival instinct anymore you know and so like we uncover we discover and now we're like I'm ready to discard these things that do not serve me anymore and the only way to let go of them is with with God's help um do you want to talk more about six and seven sure okay yeah um yeah I think uh cath did a like we're on the same page I mean we talk about this stuff a lot so there's not like a huge gap on uh understanding or belief about this uh six six being a little bit on what I uh try to uh try to hit home with my sponsees Kath talked about like the whole like it doesn't just magically happen kind of thing and um the the the meta we use all these like metaphors and analogies and stories and and I think uh you know Bill kind of does it too he's like you know trying to trying to use the he's trying to say the same thing over and over again like the whole secret of this thing is like you get helped by helping others right but we get there right and we get there by throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks right you don't like that you don't like God what about spirit of the universe czar of the heavens you know like is any of this working right so uh so the the metaphor that I like to use uh first for for seven specifically is um I hate doing laundry I'm not good at it okay and I can sit sit there in the corner of my room and pray exactly the right way I'm talking candles crystals the music the gong the sound bowl I'm levitating to you know all the things and I have yet to have God come down and do my laundry right I can't pray hard enough where God is going to do my laundry for me right what does happen though is if I ask God for the willingness to do the laundry at 3 p.m today when I know I'm going to have some extra time my eyeball ends up hitting a clock at 257 and I'm reminded of that prayer that I did right and I'm reminded of this like contract I did with God like you help me I'll help you kind of thing right and all of a sudden I find myself acting and I'm separating lights and darks and it's not that hard right and this works the same way for me with my character defects right like I can I can pray for God to to take away the dishonesty right and what that looks like in practice is the first and we use we use honesty and dishonesty because it's such an easy one to just go like yeah I know when I lied right you know there's a black and white usually you know and uh you know there's obviously a million other character defects uh where there's a lot of gray area but uh the dishonesty one I like to bring up because it's so black and white it's just like you know I'm talking to somebody and all of a sudden I'm in I'm embellishing right the story all of a sudden becomes 10 times bigger right and then uh or or I'm I'm self-conscious about the thing that I didn't get done you know it's for work and I didn't get the thing done that I said I got done but like they're not actually going to know until tomorrow so yeah I'll just say like yeah I got it done right and all of a sudden right my brain is like oh my god I asked God to take this away right and I've done all of this inventory to to reaffirm the fact that I cannot do this if I continue to go down this path I will pick up a drink and I will die right so telling the little lie could mean death right so all of a sudden I'm like man now I have to go back to this person 24 hours later and awkwardly go hey remember yesterday when I told you that thing and that is painful man that is awkward it feels so bad right so bad that the next time I say the lie and I immediately go whoop nope actually it wasn't 10 it was one right that sorry right and like I'm like I'm like I'm like I'm like I'm like I'm like I'm like I'm like I'm like an alcoholic will go like right and then a normal person will be like that's kind of weird okay I don't know why you would say it was 10 when it was one that's kind of odd and then the next time I hear the lie in my head and it doesn't fall out of my mouth and eventually I get to the place where I'm not even thinking about the lie right and that might take place over the course of weeks or months or years or decades but eventually I get to a place where I'm not even thinking about the lie where I've acted my way into right thinking I've forced myself into a place where the natural thing to do is the right thing and um and I and I love that I don't know where it came from but I'm sure you've all heard it before I can't I can't think my way into right acting but I can act my way into right thinking right all right fake it till you make it you just you just show up and do the things that are asked and eventually they will become natural and um so I want to touch on one other thing that gray area thing right um I uh I feel like every time in this scenario where we're you know there's a meeting and we're talking about six and seven somebody like says the dirty words right drop the rock right and then all of a sudden we're like oh is drop the rock good or is it bad I don't know it's like oh it's two paragraphs it's supposed to be just about God and it doesn't have to complicate it and like this this book's 90 nine pages long and um I read it I don't think it like screwed me up or anything um it's fine right I I don't really I don't have a strong I had a response he come to me recently was like hey am I allowed to read this book I'm like if they want to man like I don't think it's gonna like hurt you yeah but I told them my opinion which is like I think it has some things that are kind of silly in it um and uh one of the things is they have a list of character defects and on this list of character defects along with cigarette smoking which I think is funny but uh it also said uh uh sarcasm and like I am a very sarcastic person yeah so I was like oh my god am I not supposed to be being sarcastic right now I give you more Latin roots because everybody loves those right sarcasm means to tear at the flesh that's a cool one right right like it's yeah and and can I use sarcasm to be sarcastic sarcasm to hurt people yeah you betcha right I I'm not I'm not a fighter I've been in a couple fights didn't go well for me right but I will use words to hurt you right and sarcasm is a very effective tool yeah and uh I uh we'll get to it in amends but uh you know I I like uh I had been sarcastic for a long time and I've been sarcastic for a long time and I've been sarcastic with my sister uh and in ways that I didn't realize like really hurt her like many years later right it can be really painful also with sarcasm when used the right way when used as an effective tool to make somebody feel a part of I think it's a beautiful thing I use it all the time with spontees with brand new guys right it's like you use a little bit of that sarcasm to to make them know like hey like we're on this we're on the same inside joke with each other isn't all of this silly right and all of a sudden I can make somebody feel a part of right it's not black and white you know and when Kath was talking about like uh in the third uh yeah in the seven in the seven step prayer when it talks about uh which which uh the usefulness part I always forget it right yeah I can start it from the beginning right armed and dangerous you know like my creator I'm now only the creator of the universe I'm not the creator of the universe I'm not the creator of the you should have all of me good and bad I pray that you now remove from me every single defective character which stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows right and uh so not every single thing that uh I don't think it's all black and white and and and here's the thing I uh actually a guy that uh a guy that I've been going to a meeting with a lot that some of you know in here uh Kevin uh he always likes to talk about his belly barometer right which I think is a cool way to put it right like I know in my gut when I've done something wrong right it's it's I you feel it you know and uh uh so it's not necessarily that I can write down on paper and say like this is the rule this is always this way and this is always that way but I know when I've harmed somebody I know when I've done something wrong I know when I've done something I shouldn't have and uh this is a practice um and and Malcolm who uh a lot of you guys know Malcolm Malcolm who is Timmy's sponsor um is also a big part of my sobriety my recovery I should say um he talks about step seven as being where we turn left right this is the turning point in the steps at this point once we've reached here we can't blame other people anymore at this point right here in step seven we're going to take responsibility for all of our own actions today right and I'm not going to blame other people or circumstances for how I feel and that's it we're moving on from here trust and reliance upon God we're living in God's world if I have something shitty to say about you or about the circumstances I'm saying something shitty about God so what's it going to be everything or nothing right um yeah I don't know how much time we have left a decent amount of time oh yeah great you want to talk more about things yeah I mean you know I was thinking about six and seven and um in the 12 and 12 they get into like the seven deadly sins and um I think that have we talked about I don't like that you guys do you guys like that I don't like that well here's what I think is I think that all of the literature that focuses on six and seven it helps me to start reflecting on what are like what are all the behaviors in my life that serve me and don't serve me um and it's like I don't know I just think like my awareness of like all the things really like lit up you know like um and it continues to be like is this objectionable to me you know and I think like as human beings we naturally seek comfort and so like a lot of that's like just like really normal behavior like you know like eating snacks at night you know that's a normal thing that people do but like for some people it becomes objectionable and maybe it crosses some type of line for them where like this is like not this is not working for me anymore you know um or like cleanliness stuff you know like they get into all different examples of that in um in like drop the ball and stuff like that and I think that's a really normal behavior and it's just like I continue to see how when self-reliance fails me in different areas of my life the thing that works for me is asking God for the willingness to act as if I'm a person who likes to get up at 5 30 to go to the gym you know asking God for the willingness to like to set the alarm and to get up when it goes off you know like whatever it is in my life that's not working for me and when I realize that I have a desire to like develop a new habit I am way more successful when I do that habit with God you know this this winter I was getting back on skis and I'm like a pretty fearful skier okay I learned to ski as an adult everyone else in my family is like really like they're just naturally like woohoo going down the mountain and I'm like and um and so like the the character defect of like fear just like grips me when I think about skiing you know um and but I was like I have a desire to do this thing with my family because it's important and I want to be a part of the memories you know and so I asked God for the willingness to take a lesson to get back into it right and like to do the things right and all of that is like even like as I was going down the mountain like I think I was on like my my second lesson of the of the season and um you know like if you're if you've skied then you know that you don't want to fall that's important um and but I was thinking my thoughts for were like don't fall don't fall don't fall that's not a great way to ski right and so like I had told the instructor like you know my goal is to enjoy skiing and not be scared that's it I don't really care about getting on any black diamonds or any of that I just want to like enjoy it and um and so like lots of prayer got to me to a place where I was like ready to do it again and then I take the action and then while I'm doing the thing I also tap back into God and then sometimes I hear God like I'm going down the mountain on a run and I'm like going around all of a sudden I hear God just say just enjoy it it was like a little whisper just enjoy this and then I did you know and I think that like when I lean into God's whisper like that thing that I felt like I had to do it starts to be something that I'm enjoying something that I love to do and like that has literally been everything in recovery for me I mean like coming to my first AA meeting was like a huge obligation having to talk to people after the meeting get a phone number huge obligation right starting step work another thing that's mandatory you know what I mean like it was like and then like every single thing that was suggested I was like begrudgingly doing but I was doing it and I was asking God for the willingness when my sponsor told me like that's going to be the key and then after I was like okay I'm going to do this I'm going to do this I'm going to do this I'm going to do this I'm going to do this I started to feel like this is something I get to do not something I have to do and I think that is where like God helps us with like yep it's okay I'll take care of the character defects you keep doing the right thing and all of a sudden we're not struggling anymore right we're placed in a position of neutrality and we're just living like we're not struggling anymore and I think that's one of the things that I've learned in my life trying to be useful and we're like wow I'm kind of digging this now like you know I get to go to that meeting later I get to sit down with that sponsee later right like I get to connect with other people who understand the way my brain works what a gift this is and that is not how I felt about it when I first showed up so that whole perspective shift is like like you said left turn and step seven like I think we start to really fill that gap now I'm starting to second-guess myself and like did he say right turn did I screw this all up I uh I I I wanted to jump in Kath reminded me of something like we're you know uh Kelly reminded me of it this morning with the meditation and you know I I always talk about it with the fact that like I can only have conscious contact with the God of my understanding in the present moment like right now right and um it's very hard for me to be in that present moment um extremely extremely difficult and um one of the things that I absolutely love about snowboarding is going in the trees and I ride in the trees and when I'm there I am only in now I can't think if I'm thinking I can't think if I'm thinking I can't think if I'm thinking I'm gonna hit a tree you know and I don't know what's coming around the next corner I'm literally just reacting I'm reacting and I've I've built up my skill set enough where I can trust the fact that my reaction is going to be the right one right and it's it's it's kind of like that's what I'm doing with a spiritual practice is I'm building up that skill set that set up tools that over time I've done it enough times where I am sure that I'm going to be that if this comes at me I'm gonna be able I'm gonna be okay I was actually uh I was riding up the uh I was riding up the gondola and I went to Stratton on uh Friday and uh I was right up the gondola and I was making conversations with people I was trying I was trying to find good snow in the trees there a lot of it was skied out and uh I so I'm asking everybody when I get in the gun hey anybody be in the trees today you know trying to find where the good stuff is and uh this woman goes oh I avoid the trees I'm trying to find where the good stuff is and uh this woman goes oh I avoid the trees and I went me too that's the whole point right I'm just doing it at full speed right like in between all of them right and we can live life way over there on the green trail that's wide as hell right never come near any trees right and we can decide that you know the trees are coming maybe I better get prepared to dodge them you know and uh yeah I get that same it's I love uh I love being in nature I feel very close to God when I'm in nature and when I'm in that like present moment I can get there mountain biking I can get there snowboarding and um sometimes I can get there just being still and being quiet in nature and I was actually uh I was going full bore through the trees and uh there was finally a spot where there's some like fresh powder uh but the reason that it was fresh powder is there was all this like new growth little tiny trees and they're not fun they're not good because they're all over the place and uh sure enough I clipped one of the front of my board and tomahawked and landed like upside down staring up and I didn't hurt myself at all I just started laughing it was nobody was anywhere near me just laughing I'm staring up at this beautiful tree and I just laid there for like 30 seconds and I uh and I I uh I prayed and I uh let God know how grateful I was to have that opportunity to be right now and um yeah I don't know I just felt moved to say that so that's all I have to say about that well it's only 2 32 but I think it would be okay if break a little bit early um yeah I'm sure everybody needs to move around um we're back in the rear meeting hall at 3 15. Does that sound good G? Awesome.