Sponsorship as the Art of Fishing for Souls – John C.

Hello, everybody. My name is John Cordero and I'm an alcoholic. Kind of messed up with my little computer right now. Al, thanks so much for allowing me to come on. It's kind of, especially since I was just on a little while ago, you guys must be really sick. but i appreciate the offer and i you know uh i'm really excited to kind of uh you know talk about it and you know al gave me some specific instructions about talking about pages 14 and 15 um of bill's story and and then the first two paragraphs of working with others and um and then i i kind of got tired of uh me uh thinking about those and i and i begged earlier this week I said can I kind of expand a little bit and he said yes and so uh so I'm going to do that and and the reason why I want to expand because a lot of people kind of think that you have to wait till the end of the book before they start mentioning it and actually it's a thread that goes throughout the whole book and my sponsor who you're going to hear after me um he's doing a workshop for us right now and he's stressing the fact that it's related that everything's related throughout our text and and and this step indeed is it's not just something that they spring on you right at the end like you know having had a spiritual awakening uh and and it starts off in the forward of the second uh uh edition in roman numeral um i don't even say it that way because i'm a bronc it says xvii and in that one it says it also indicated that strenuous work one alcoholic with another was vital to permanent recovery and that kind of relates to what they're talking about in the first two paragraphs of working of uh working with others and and then and then it kind of goes on a little bit a couple more pages and then i don't know if this directly relates but it relates in a certain sense And at the end of the third edition is probably one of my most favorite paragraphs in the whole big book. And it says, in spite of the great increase in the size and the span of this fellowship, at its core, it remains simple and personal. Each day somewhere in the world, recovery begins when one alcoholic talks with another alcoholic, sharing experience, strength, and hope. And if you look at experience, length, and help, what we're talking about is the program Alcoholics Anonymous. that you know that we have experience and we've gained we've had experience working through the steps and we gain some strength and in that strength we can give the sick alcoholic hope you know i personally think one of the most powerful tools we have is hope you know and i got a call last night from a guy who i sponsored for quite a while and he's been out there uh killing himself and what he called for yesterday wasn't a lecture or you know he wasn't calling for me to take him through the inventory what he was calling for is because he wanted some experience strength and also he wanted to fill the hope he wanted to feel that there is a shot for alcoholics like him who who seek a new way of living and thinking and then if you kind of move on in our theme about working with others or the 12th step on the doctor's opinion on xxv it says as part of his rehabilitation he commenced to present his conceptions to other alcoholics comma impressing upon them that they must do likewise with still others. Even Silkworth sees this thing where our ability to pass this on is so important, you know, that, you know what he says, impressing upon them. I mean, you don't want a doctor to use impressing like, you're impressing me not to run on my Achilles tendon because I ruptured it. That means that they really kind of want you to do it. You know, pressing upon them the day must do likewise with still others. And then that kind of gets me to the pages that I'm supposed to be starting, supposed to be doing is pages 14 and 15 of Bill's story. And I'm going to read those and then I'll talk about them. It says, while I lay in the hospital, the thought came that there might be thousands of hopeless alcoholics who might be glad to have what had been so freely given me perhaps i could help some of them they in turn might work with others bill's newly sober and thank god it was bill wilson and not john cordero because i was not thinking about others when i was in the hospital and then and then he talks about his his relation when ebby talked to him and said that ebony had told him my friend ebmy had emphasized the absolute necessity absolute necessity of demonstrating these principles in all my affairs particularly was it imperative to work with others as he had worked with me faith without works was dead he said and how appalling true for the alcoholic for if an alcoholic failed to perfect and enlarge his spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice for others he could not survive the certain trials and low spots ahead if he did not work he would surely drink again and if he drank he would surely die then faith would be dead indeed with us it is just like that and those that that part that al asked me to talk about is just a powerful thing you know we're we're you know as i started like you know i wasn't as cool as bill so you know As I Started Getting Better in Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, it was emphasized upon me by sponsors, by friends, by peers that I was going to have to practice this stuff in all my life. You know, because I had a serious problem and my problem was the best person, the best AA I was, was at a meeting and the worst place I was was at home. And it said that I had to demonstrate in these principles, the principles of Alcoholics honesty all all these things that we learned i'm supposed to be practicing everywhere not just in the rooms and it's you know and and then uh and then he says it's particularly imperative that i work with others you know to kind of give back what was so freely given me and um And, you know, and I guess what I'd like to say about it, you can only give what you know. You know, in the first paragraph, having had a spiritual awakening. And the only way one has a spiritual awaken as far as the big books concern is to have worked the steps. it's the 12th step and and and having had a spiritual awakening because we've admitted because we're taking inventory because we tried to get rid of our grosser defects of character because we restituted because we engage in prayer meditation because we take daily inventory then we have something then we're living my spiritual principles and my my my thinking and the way I live my life has changed enough that i can kind of carry that out um and then you know it's kind of scary when he says how appalling true for the alcoholic because how many of us get ours or how many Of Us have seen people i know i'm preaching to the choir here in this virginia group but how many OF Us have seeing people that come in and get a and then they go okay see you later i'll show up next year to get my cake or birthday or medallion whatever they do in different areas and you know how come they're not in the trenches oh leave it up to pete from chicago he'll do it you know um no every i mean nothing so much ensures immunity from drinking as intensive work without other alcoholics and then you know and then uh you know bill gives this ominous thing he said if he did not work he would surely drink again and if he drank he would surely die you know so you think about this like this 12 step right having had a spiritual awakening as result of this test. I mean, this is a life and death errand, really. I'm not trying to be dramatic. I am just kind of reading what it says out of the book. Bill says he would surely drink again, and if he drank, he would certainly die. So if you are a real alcoholic, in California, it's noon, so we're real alcoholics. We're on a Zoom meeting right now. You guys are pretty sick in virginia being on at three o'clock but you know uh but if you're a real alcohol is it surely dying you know then moving on to the book um a little bit this is kind of loosely tying into what we do but i like it uh my sponsor it's called italics which my sponsor likes to call it squiggly writing so the squiggly riding on page 18 it says but the x problem drinker who has found the solution who is properly armed with the facts about himself can generally win the entire confidence of another alcoholic in a few hours until such an understanding is reached little or nothing can be accomplished and i and i mentioned that part because you know further on in that chapter it's going to talk you know in um about how we approach somebody but i think what's what's missing now at least what i see in my circle and i can only report that what i see in santa barbara and the people that i work with and what i see is that we don't spend enough time probing these guys and these gals you know finding out if they're a real alcoholic and and letting them know that i'm a real one that i might have a solution for their problem and um and and if i if i don't do that it warns me that little or nothing can be accomplished. I could have, I could be the best at taking you through the inventory and pointing out your defects of character and helping you write that eight-step list and giving you some suggestions about the nine-step amends. But if you don't believe me and you don'T trust me and YOU DON'T THINK I HAD WHAT YOU HAD, all bets are off. All bets are OFF. And it's really kind of important that we don't forget this, that one part prior to kind of getting into all the good stuff. You know, the hard stuff is I heard somebody talk and it was kind of in the late eighties. And he said, you know, we're fishing for men's souls. The lost art of fishing for men's soul. You Know, when we're out there really trying to convince that new person that there is something you know hopefully john barleycorn did his job and and and alcohol is his master but even in that case we're still resistant to a spiritual way of life and you know we have to have that understanding and then not too far after page 18 there's another thing that ties into this step and it says this is on page 20 it says our very lives as x problem drinkers depend upon our constant thought of others and how we may help meet their needs not my needs their needs so i take them to the steps i'm not taking them through the you have to do the john cordero method uh word by word line by line i need to find out what's good i need to reverse that thing like it says how would i like to be approached if the tables were turned if i was him and he was me i need a meet them at dirt that doesn't mean that i i don't do what i believe in alcoholics anonymous it might be how i word it how i articulate things it might be you know how much i can dump on them but i always kind of thought that was that was interesting um and then i take a big jump i don't know if i just got lazy and i'll do my homework or not but i go to page 42 and uh this is one of the stories in uh in more about alcoholism and it says then they outline the spiritual answer in the program of action which a hundred of them had followed successfully and what kind of gets me what gets me going with that and the reason why I bring it up as far as this 12 step is they're not waiting around till Jim starts feeling better Jim just came off finding a taxi cab driver at the landing field he's been on a good one and then they kind of go hey you know he's still jittery uh you know my sponsor likes to say how many of you guys went to the hospital arrest your jitters and i certainly didn't you know but here we got this guy jim he's he's come back again he's blew up his thing and he has a great life and uh and then right away they're not giving this guy any time to they're going hey we have a spiritual answer and a program of action and a hundred of us have followed it we're sharing experience strength and help here you know we're not going to assign you an assignment that you do and we don't do and i and i think it's really kind of wonderful that you know as we're starting to kind of build up to this thing you know um and then and then i bump again to page 60 and that's the first time the steps met uh said in proper it's on the type of top of page 60 and says 12 having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs you know like in that form you know uh when the words this and these is a pronoun of this it means specific so when it says you know we had a spiritual awakening because we took the other steps and we try to carry this message to the other alcoholics in the practice these principles you know so they're specific about what principles that we're trying to practice here and I think it's really kind of wonderful that you know this message carry this message and these principles not a message or you know I know for a long time in Santa Barbara there's this thing called the course of miracles and i don't know anything about it but they're not talking about practicing that they're talking about practicing this message and these principles and i think it kind of gives us some general guidelines for us when we're trying to help with others you know the only thing we're really qualified to talk about if you've been in alcoholics and you've gone through the steps are these steps and then the principles and uh and there's a lot of wiggle room and i don't think that like you have to be like a robot and you know i don'T you don't have to sound like me and i DON'T have to SOUND LIKE YOU but we HAVE TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME STUFF AND THERE'S DIFFERENT INFLECTIONS I'M SURE UM THAT UH YOU PROBABLY THINK I TALK WITH AN ACCENT AND I PROBAБLY THANK YOU GUYS TOO AND UH BUT IT DOESN'T really matter we've got to talk about the same thing and and what i believe is that when we talk about things that are spiritual in nature i think it's a universal language and i think its understood by people who are suffering from that spiritual illness called alcoholism and i think it's really important that we kind of kind of do that and then i bumped to page 77 you know um because it says to practice these principles in all our affairs and this is what this ties into that little phrase and it says our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God and the people about us. I mean, that sounds a lot more than just not drinking, doesn't it? I mean you know it's really kind of a powerful thing if you think about that you know our real purpose right is to fit ourselves as we're working through the steps our real focus isn't to be the headline speaker of the Virginia thing you know our real purpose or to be a big shot in aa or anything like that our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service maximum service you know there's this guy in uh southern california he's been sober on like 56 years now and i asked him one time about uh firing somebody and it was a while ago maybe like 20 years ago and he said john how can you fire somebody when you're just being of service to them i never thought about it like that i guess that's why he's 50 years sober and i'm not you know in and i've pondered out for a long time if i'm trying to be of service to these people uh you know uh and meet them at their needs you know why am i tripping you know what's wrong with me you know is my ego in the way You know, if I practice these principles and I'm living a spiritual life, the only thing that I'm really battling against daily is my ego to kind of think it was me. To push everything out of the way and everything I did, you know, one of my dear friends that I got sober with, a brilliant man read this book. and i remember we we went out walking and uh he told me you know you know what i read this book three times he's a great trial attorney he goes you know it says it says find god or die and yeah uh you know so this spiritual awakening you know what and i'm sure you've heard this before you know what i need i don't need more god i need less john you know john's always the the you know I'm in every equation. And the less of me, the better off I am. And then 84. Now this might be a stretch. It's kind of getting late at night, but it says, then we resolutely turn our thoughts to someone we can help. Love and tolerance of others is our code. You know, so, and the reason why I'm reading you all these little things out of the big book is to prove what I started off with. It's not something that just happens when you get to working with others. It's something, it's a spirit that's kind of all the way through our literature. It's Not, you know, for me, it'S Just Not Something That'S Just Happening At The End. Like, oh, I'M Going To Go Along, I'm Going To Do All This Thing. It'S All The Way Through. You know, the whole idea is for me to stop being me and to get out of my life and do something. And it's kind of a wonderful thing. And then here we go. Working with others. This was the first instructions Al gave me right here. These first two paragraphs. I'm going to read them. Chapter seven, working with others. Practical experience. I'm going to kind of read them slow and kind of go practical experience. That means that they something happened. They just didn't kind of, you know, build it wasn't thinking they're kind of. Oh, well, I'm just going to write practical experience they had some. They were watching. They had that few years where they were watching 35 till the book is published at 39. They're watching. And he says practical security shows that nothing, nothing will so much ensure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics. So sometimes inventory ain't going to cut it. Sometimes prayer and meditation ain't gonna work. But nothing will sow much ensure community from drinking has intensive work without our violence. and what do you think intensive work means what does that mean to you you know going by at a meeting and seeing somebody they're new and go hey welcome that's not intensive work you know intensive work is like it's intensive work that means getting the book out making sure they understand all the stuff we were kind of talking about making sure that they're connected to you uh you know intensive work like when somebody says hey do you want to sponsor like we're entering some big stuff here we got some work to do and it's going to be time consuming and unless you know unless i can handle that responsibility i shouldn't be doing it and uh and unfortunately we have a lot of people in my area that haven't even uh that shouldn't be, well, strike that from the records because I don't want to be judgmental. Well, you know what I mean. All right. Thanks, Pete, my buddy. And then it goes on to say, this is our 12th suggestion, squiggly writing italics. Carry this message to other alcoholics. Remember this message these principles not a message this message the message of alcoholics anonymous not whatever i believe in it's like you know but this message and it's pretty specific you can help when no one else can't right you remember earlier in the book i was reading that thing until such a confidence is made little or nothing can be done you just can't go up there and hey i'm gonna ram me through the steps no intensive work find out what's happening la la la this is what i'm doing so if you guys hate me i probably won't see you again but i just i just do what i what i do and then it says you can secure their confidence when others fail remember they're very ill remember earlier i was talking about that hope thing now these are very sick people that we see coming in aaa and even coming back to aaa and maybe the coming backs are a little more sicker than the ones that are coming in for the first time you know because they've had a taste of the good life and still decided to go back out remember they're very ill they're not doing very good when they come in now They don't know that, but we know it. If somebody's been out on a four or five-year run, they're not doing so swell. They're not on a winning streak. They haven't done anything. And we, having had experience and strength, we can give them hope. You know, they are sick. They are very, very sick people. and uh and my grand sponsor a guy named jim hurley if you ever get a chance to get him you should get him because this cat's fantastic you know he says that that paragraph that we just read is the warranty for the product so everything we've kind of done up to this particular point this is the guarantee for that product and i'm going to read it again practical experience shows that nothing will so much ensure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics it works when other activities fail this is our 12th suggestion carry this message to alcoholics you can help when no one else can you can secure their confidence when others fail remember they are very ill you know all i really wanted was to stop my terrible life when i came into alcoholics and they're telling me after i go through the steps um it's what you guys have been talking about all day today 10 11 and 12 the growth steps they're not maintenance steps the growth you can't coast uphill you can' t coast uphill we claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual progress how do you progress maintaining if I can only lift five pounds of weight and that's what I do I maintain how am I ever going to get stronger not got to keep working at it life will take on new meaning, to watch people recover, to see them help others, to watch loneliness vanish, to see a fellowship grow about you, to have a host of friends. This is an experience you must not miss. We know you will not want to miss it. Frequent contact with newcomers and with each other is a bright spot of our lives. You know, I must admit when I was new, I was kind of, yeah, I want to be frequent contact with you losers. You know, and I don't really care about, you know, I'm so wrapped up in self that I can't really, I don'T care what's happening to anybody else around me. But as I stayed sober, by the way, I got sober on April 4th of 1984. So as I've been sober, yes, life will take on new meaning i mean part of this thing this morning i wanted to come on early and i got busy with work and then uh and then i honest to god i got i think every guy that i sponsor called today was some kind of and and part of it is that you know life will take on a new meaning uh to watch people recover uh to see a fellowship grow up about you you know and that's actually happened in my life where you know i have this thing or i'm part of i'm part of people's lives and it's something that i take very seriously it's not um it's it's a blessing it's uh and it doesn't it's it's nothing that i do you know when i'm at the meeting hall it's permeated my whole life you know And it's a blessing. It's not a labor. I mean, they say in the book, they said labor or work. And for me, it's become so integral in what I do that I don't consider it that. It's just my way of life now. You know, Alcoholics Anonymous has systematically or progressively or through the steps, any way you want to say it, change the way I live and change the way I think. You know, I came in a selfish, self-centered, egotistical, rotten little fool. And what Alcoholics Anonymous has made me is somebody who actually cares about the human race, particularly people trying to get sober in Alcoholics on us. And I'm very happy and blessed and fortunate in the fact that I have a piece of literature, you know, these messages and these principles that allow me to help people find their own God. You know, it's imperative that they find God on their own. They can't have mine. I wish I could open up and go get in there, see what it feels like young one and then but they have to find their own and there's a great story about that the story goes like this the story knows um the disciples complained to the master they said master you always tell us stories but you never give us their meaning and the master replies how would you like it if i chewed the fruit before i gave it to you nobody can find your spiritual awakening for you not even the master that's something that you have to find on your own that everybody the whole goal in alcoholics anonymous is for us to guide these people through these 12 steps and principles that they find something greater than themselves that can change their lives and that greater than something isn't john cordero that greater then something is you know a god of their own understanding you know and we're so blessed for that because I don't have to believe like you believe, I just need to believe it's a pretty wonderful thing you know there was one more thing that I wanted to read I don' t know because I like this guy I like dr robert holbrook smith i just love him to death you know he doesn't get much press you know i mean everybody talks about bill but on on his story on page 181 he says i spent a great deal of our bottom of 180 181 he says I spent a great deal time passing on which what I had learned others who want it and need it badly. I do it for four reasons. One, a sense of duty. Two, it is a pleasure. Three, because in so doing, I am paying my debt to the man who took time to pass it on to me. Sorry, that kind of rocked me right there. My first sponsor, the guy who carried it to I mean, he's, like a lot of people, he's battling cancer right now. And then four to tie into what we're talking about today because every time I do it, I take a little more insurance for myself against a possible slip. You know, I think a lot of times when we're trying to work with that newcomer for me at least you know one of my goals uh today is to let them know hey you're helping me you know they'll often say i just want to thank you so much for the time john you're taking the time out to help me and gosh you know don't let my ego get in the way you know the real thing is you're having me kid you're hoping me to get out of me you're helping me pass it on you're taking off a little bit of insurance nothing so much insures my immunity from drinking as working with you and unfortunately some people want to have that reputation yeah you are sitting at the right hand of the father and you should be grateful and that's bullshit these people are dying out there we don't shoot our wounded and we need to go out there and get them. You know, we need to go outside and get out there and get them in the sense that these steps and these principles you know we need to get back we need to get our average back up you know we need to get 50% at once 25% after some relapses and the rest to remain on they do better we need to start attaining those numbers they're attainable you know and I think the only way they're attainable is if we continue to have events like this where we're talking about AA literature and really what's set down before because it's pretty amazing and you know the eye opener for me is you know I'm from a small town in Southern California and I started going other places and I found out oh my god people are staying sober and they don't even know about me and and and what i realized is the people that were staying sober and were happy and and who i connected with there was one common thing that they all were into the big book that's the common you know people have talked about like strong sponsorship ethic and now i'm sure that has something to do with it but the thing that got me the most is that the people that i like me personally that um uh that they're in into the big book of alcoholics anonymous and that how's my uh ray's my my third sponsor and you're going to hear him after that and the attraction to ray was ray was into the literature and ray has always been into the literature in raising oh like a sponge and what ray's been trying to teach me over um forever long as i've been is to um he was kind of hammering the word prejudiced uh the other night at this the sting we were doing and not be prejudiced open my mind to you know looking what other people do as long as it's grounded in the book and learn what do i have to learn what do what do I have to lose what doI have to loose you know and um you know um it says having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps. Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps and you know one of the things that I need to personally remember is that my spiritual awakening is no greater you can't measure spirituality you can go oh well she's more spiritual than I am or spirituality is there's no measurement in there and nobody nobody becomes more it's it's not like you can like you there's you've had a spiritual awakening or you haven't it doesn't you don't say i've had an hey i've got a spiritual awakening plus one no it's not that i had a special awakening and i had that spiritual awakening as a result of these steps um i didn't even i think i might have went through all my literature already it's only like what is it 12 37 was there supposed to be questions or anything or am i supposed to let's like tap out because i don't like to carry on with a bunch of fill in the blank spots you know what I mean? You're good, John. No problem. Okay. I'm done then.