Sponsorship and the Big Book – Sponsorship Workshop – Part 1 of 2 – Chris R.

Everybody all smoked up and drunk up and we're all set. My name is Myers-Ramer and I'm an alcoholic. And you know, this is the stuff we came to do. The stuff that we're talking about right now, this deal of sponsorship, this deal with working somebody through the work, of doing that kind of stuff. You ever ask yourself a question of why it is? why it is that we are afraid to sponsor. You ever, you know how it is, picture the situation, you're in a meeting last night and you're sitting there and there's some little guy sitting across the room and he's kind of giving you the eye and your head goes, oh no, oh no. He's going to ask me to sponsor him. And I just like, and we tend to, I did it for years. I mean, I just, because deep down inside, I really, my ego wants you to ask but everything else in me is screaming, please don't ask me, please, because I don't really know what it is that I'm doing. I don' t know. I have a vague idea and I have my experience how I was carried through the work the first couple of times when I first sobered up. So inner contrast. I mean, this thing is about contrast. It's about conflict between the way I was sponsored originally by a couple of men that love me to death. And the way I was sponsored once, Cliff Bishop got his crusty hands on me and made me go back through this stuff the way it was intended to be. And it's like people say, well, there's no right or wrong way to. Guys, there is there is you can make an absolute mess out of this deal. Some of you guys may have read this article one time There was a guy named Bob Bacon that was a delegate from Northeast Ohio, I think, in 1976 or 74, who wrote this great article. It was a transcript actually out of a talk that he had did at some function. And in this deal, the transcript is on our website. You get a kick out of reading it. But one of the things that really stuck out was a quote from Dr. Bob that said, there is no such thing as a personal interpretation of the 12 steps. From Dr. Bob, there is no such thing as a personal interpretation of the 12 steps. We were intended to work this thing based on the directions that we were getting out of the big book. And and as a result of that, we were what they said in chapter five, working with others, we were guaranteed. Remember the stuff they talk about, about half measures availed us nothing. Why is it that we come in here with enough arrogance and we come in here with enough opinion about the stuff and we think that half measures will get me at least half success, right? At least I'll get something. And it doesn't say that at all. Doesn't even suggest that. Half measures availed us nothing. And so our job as individuals before we ever even start sponsorship, before we even start that work is to make the determination whether or not we've had a spiritual experience as a result of doing the work, whether or not we're OK in our own skin around the steps and around what we're supposed to be doing. Now, look. Well, it's so hard to know where to start the. I want to make sure that everybody in here understands going in that this that we're talking about this morning is not about raising up a bunch of zealots. Guys, I've got to tell you, between me and you, is there anything that's less offensive or more offensive than a big book thumper that wants to spank you in a meeting? That wants to crucify you with the big books? It's not fun. It's no good for AA. And it's just offensive. We're not trying to raise up a bunch of big book thumbers that are zealots, that are out there. I've been asked to talk at a jillion different places And it's a funny thing to listen to these guys conversations the day before the talk. I'll get off the airport on the way to the end, to the hotel from the airport. It's just we're so glad to have you here. We can't wait for you to spank these sons of bitches from it. And I'm like, whoa, stop. Stop. I don't want to do that. I don' t I don'. Now, I got to tell you, it seems to be a natural progression. Once we learn some big book stuff, we tend to get there's a little dose of self-righteousness that comes into the deal. And we carry that some distance down range and it's not pretty sometimes. And what we've got to do is as quickly as we can, we need to unload that little piece of self-righteousness and set it aside because that's what separates me from the guys that I can help. There's where I stay into trouble. Enthusiasm is good. We need everybody to be as enthusiastic as they can about recovery. That's super. We just don't want the ego and the arrogance to get pulled into the game so that we become less and less effective. It's not my way and their way. That said, that said, please believe. I tell you what, let me read this little deal. You'll get a kick out of this. Bill Wilson in 1966 wrote this letter that was published and it was passed around for a good bit of time. And it says this, an A.A. group understand the dates on this. 1966 by now, Bill Wilson had been introduced. The discussion meeting had been entered into our fellowship and Bill is concerned he and Dr. Bob, there's letters back and forth between Bob and Bill that talk about this specific thing. They're concerned about where the fellowship is heading and it's not really good in some areas. Well, you see it. I want you to understand that some of you guys come out of good, wholesome groups where the big book is talked about, where you are clear about what your obligations are and your responsibilities are. But guys, there is a world of AA out there that's not like that. There's a world of AA where people say and do some crazy things. We always want to make sure that you understand some of this. In North Texas, where I'm from, there are a couple of groups out there where they're charging money to hear fifth steps. I know, I mean, Dr. Bob would crap if he saw it. I mean these guys would just go nuts if they saw this stuff like that. I know of three AA groups in that end of Texas where they won't let you bring a big book into a meeting. They'll stop you in the parking lot and ask you what it is that you have in your hand. Well, it's a big book dummy. And they go not in our meeting. It's not. And they'll make you turn around if you're going to go to the meeting and say, you see what I'm saying? And you go, well, it'S not happening here. Well, how nice for you. But there are a lot of places that it is happening. And the guys that you sponsor, that's the reason why it's so it's so important that we do the kind of things that we're doing right now, because Because the guys that you sponsor are not going to always be here in Placerville. They're not always going to be with you in San Francisco, in the womb of AA. They're nicht going to sein, wo du sie können sie schützen. Sie werden in der kohlenkreuzigen Welt sein. Und ich habe keine Ahnung, wo es steht, du wählst es. Es gibt ein Sesspool-Meeting, das sich aufhört. Ein Sessool-Meetings, das sagt, hey, einfach kommen und sitzen. Du wirst okay. You see? So, with that in mind, listen to this. Bill's trying to tell us what an AA group was about. An AA group, as such, cannot take on all the personal problems of its members, let alone those of non-alcoholics in the world around us. The AA group is not, for example, a mediator of domestic relations, nor does it furnish personal financial aid to anyone. That's an interesting thought for you bankers in AA. I'm a poor banker, believe me. Though a member may sometimes be helped in such matters by his friends in AA, A, the primary responsibility for the solutions of all his problems of living and growing rests squarely upon the individual himself. Should an AA group attempt this sort of help its effectiveness and energies would be hopelessly dissipated? Now here it is. That is why sobriety, freedom from alcohol through the teaching and practice of age 12 steps as if we don't stick to this cardinal principle, we shall almost certainly collapse. And if we collapse, we cannot help anyone dig. We're there for one reason, guys. We're here to help guys see what they need to see about the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. So this thing, this special, perfect setup of a spiritual experience can transpire in our lives. That's it. That's It. And with the advent of the nonstop discussion meeting where we talk about everything under the sun, everything under The Sun, please, you guys that know me know that I think that the discussion meeting is the worst thing that ever happened at AA. I do. Scouts Honor, I do, but that said. Wow. I'm not saying that I never sat in a discussion meeting and felt all warm and fuzzy. I never I'm Not saying that I ever said in a meeting like that and didn't get some great information. There is wonderful information out there, guys. In Dallas, Texas today, there is 140 groups in the Dallas Fort Worth area, 140 groups. There's fifteen hundred meetings and ninety six percent of them are discussion meetings. All I'm saying is, guys, why do we have to have so dang many of them? Why can't we have some big book studies so people can learn what it is to take the steps, learn what het is to have a spiritual experience, and then go back into the discussion meeting with some hope of how to help the new guy that's in there. That's what we need to do, you see. On page 17 in our big book, and then I'll get into the sponsorship stuff that we're talking about, But they talk about a common peril, alcoholism, whatever your fellowship is, maybe drug addiction. But but but is there any of us in here that didn't experience that closeness, that connectedness with the people in the room? When we sit in a room full of drunks for the very first time and we kind of went and when we finally stopped looking at the floor and we started looking around like this and we go, this is some pretty hot stuff. I'm in aroomful of people that love me. I'm in a room here of people that are not trying to judge me. I'm In a room full of people That want the very best for me And for many of us This is the first time in our adult lives That this has ever happened And it is special And you read down to the bottom of page 17 And there's a little line in there that talks about But that in itself would never have held us together And they start talking about something called what? A common solution You see And here's the rub guys Every one of us needs to be lockstep with a common solution. I can recover if I work the steps and get to this God of my understanding. God will remove the obsession to drink and do those other outside issues. That's as simple as it gets. That's its basis, you see. It's when we bring in all the other stuff and we try to make the meeting something that it was never intended to be that we get into trouble. And it always comes back to sponsorship. Somebody says, I want you to sponsor me. And immediately my old head, the old Myers-Rammer would go, oh, and the first thing I go to is time. I don't have the time to sponsor you, brother, because you're going to consume me. And you guys remember that stuff. You hear it all the time. Well, I did a four-step and it took 11 hours for him to listen to my four-stepped. And we're doing this and we'redoing this andwe're doing it every day. It's a nananana. He just gets this long, protracted 100 calls a day from this guy and all this. No wonder we don't want to sponsor people. No wonderwe want to hold this stuff at some distance. And the only time we want to sponsor is when there's no way to escape it. I can't, I can'T back up fast enough and I'm trapped. I got to do this thing. Guys, collectively, and I love you to death, but I'll tell you that one of the greatest things that I ever learned in AA was Clifford would look at me and he'd say, why do you feel the need to talk these guys so much? Because that's what sponsors do. He goes, oh, OK. I just just I never saw it in the book or anything like this. I just curious about the deal like this, but you seem to take on lots of responsibilities that were never intended for you to take on. Well, Cliff, you know, I mean, I've just I just you know how will they love me if they don't if we don't spend a bunch of time together? We don't pal around together. We don'T eat 10 meals a week together. If we don'T go and we just we just take in all of this stuff because none of its doctrine, none of it is. If you have a guy that you sponsor. How many of you guys have sponsored guys or girls? How many guys have sponsor people that you really don't really like? Good boy. Good girl. Yeah. Listen, there's nothing in the book that says I have to love every man that I sponsor on one level. I love him the moment they ask me to sponsor him. I do. But guys, there are some unlovely people out there. And it is, I don't need to love you. I don' t need to be a pal with you forever and ever and ever. Are there men that I sponsor that I've gotten to be very close to? I could name you a big old list of guys I'd die for tomorrow. I'd do anything for these men. But it doesn't happen all the time. And it's not a prerequisite for sponsorship. I know that's a foreign concept to a lot of people. And it, and it is. It's like heresy. They go, oh no, that's not what it's, we're going to sit in these meetings and we're going to talk and we're going to talk and we're going to talk and we're going to talk and you just like stop. Last time I checked my big book, there wasn't anything in there that said step 13, go to meetings and talk and talk and talk. It didn't say that stuff. And if Bill thought it was important, don't you think it would have been in there as a step? Don't you think it would have been in there as a piece of our basic text? I'm not making light of any of this stuff guys And every one of us Every one of God's kids comes into this deal With a battlefield behind them We come in with problems We come In with all kinds of stuff And I'm Not Making Light of Any of It They Came Up With A Great Way To Deal With This Stuff And It's Called A Sponsor And When Somebody Has A Bad Day At Work Call Me Let's Talk About This Stuff And Deal With It But Buddy At 7.30 At Primary Purpose Group When That Cowbell Rings And We're Going To Study The Book We don't give a rat's patootie how bad your day was. We don' t care because the solution will get you past all that if you'll just get off your crap long enough to get on with the work and do the deal. The book talks about there's reoccurring themes. You guys that study the book a lot will remember this stuff. There's reocurring themes that go over and over and again, and the new guys that we sponsor need to understand this. Action is one of them. Willingness is oneofthem. But look at action, how many times they talk about this stuff, guys sitting in a meeting, spilling your guts and taking up valuable recovery time is not action. It's a waste of time. It is. And I know, please don't hate me. Please. Everything in my DNA is saying steer clear of this topic, Myers. It's just like share it with your sponsor. Every time our meetings start at 730 and I'm there at 430. I'm here early so that when you come and we can talk about that girl that you can't seem to entice into a date and the end of job. And we talk about all of that stuff so that we're crystal clear when the bell rings. We're only there for one reason. We're there to study the literature so that we can begin to get the experience and knowledge that the book talks about on page 19 so thatwe can carry that to the new drunk that's dying. OK, so with that in mind, let's let's picture for a second. Let's pretend J.R. J.E.R is our pathetic drunk. He is the guy who is brand new, sober, and he walked into our meeting and he's there. He looks a little healthy now, but imagine him, imagine he messed up, OK? And he's and he'S there. So we have collectively, we have a fellowship that says, hey, look, let's let's just let him sit and chill and chill. OK, fine. Let him chill. Let him come. Let him stay. Let him enjoy the whole deal. Page 24 talks about we won't bring be able to bring into consciousness with sufficient force. The pain and suffering of even a week or a month ago. And you guys understand this stuff because of the because of the way that this stuff sets up. We got to get J.R. some understanding and we got to get it to him pretty quick, because otherwise J.O.'s going to get complacent. How many of you guys work with a guy in treatment and you see this guy, you go see him. He's in there for two days and he's a mess. He's an absolute screwed up mess. He's just he's detoxing. He's real pliable. He'll do anything you want him to do. You say, are you willing to do this? He goes, yeah, he'd eat a handful of spiders if you said here they are. He'll do he'd do anything now. Now, how many of you have gone back in 27 days later? This guy's had 27 days of good food. Good, good. He's all and you walk in and you go. J.R. And he's going, yeah. and what you have is jr not the compliant i'm ready to do anything you want me to do kind of guy you have jr the arrogant little pissant that doesn't want to do anything isn't it weird that the very first thing that seems to come back to us once we sober up is our opinion followed real closely by our judgmental nature and now i'm sitting there in the meeting, judging you and judging what you said and jamming you up. Look at that fat pig. I mean, where did that come from? I'm a busted up drunk and I don't I don'T have a right to point a finger at anybody. And yet there's where we find ourselves. And so that's the that's the problem because of the inherent nature of the mental obsession, which Chris will probably talk about at length in just a minute ago. You ever stop and wonder why it is that Bill Wilson spent so much time in the first part of the book talking about the mental obsession, the mental component of our disease. The physical part was easy, but easy for everybody to understand. And then Bill spends what? Forty pages doing nothing but really giving us one illustration right after another. Remember how stupid Jim's story sounded in the beginning or the Jay Walker or Fred's story or all these things like this? We're just going, What the heck did they write it for? It's just four. And then all of a sudden, one day you go, I hope you do. You go, oh, that's why they write it, because it's the component of the whole thing that nobody understands. It's like we have we have thousands of us in the fellowship that simply bypassed that whole part. And you go, well, everybody understands that. Trust me on this, guys. Everybody does not understand the mental component of alcoholism and why those illustrations are in there. And yet it'sthe most baffling nature of the deal. It's the stuff that just absolutely cooks the goose for most of us. And so with J.R. there in the meeting the first night, we need to qualify this guy and see this. And then you got all these guys over going, qualify? Qualify? And it's like I should have said I hate the United States and I wouldn't have been as offensive. You see what I'm saying? Everybody goes, wait a minute, you have no right to qualify anybody. Yes, we do. Come on. Stick with me just a minute before you shut the door and say, screw this guy. Stay with me a minute. I can't label J.R. a drunk. That's not my job. I can'T say that he'S an alcoholic, but look at Fred story in the book for an absolutely classic example of what we're going to do in the beginning of this, of this thing called sponsorship. It is our job to make sure that he understands the nature of his alcoholism as it affected me. J. R. This is when my war story begins to have some effect. I'll tell him a little bit about myself. He tells me a little Bit about himself and then we talk a Little bit and I try to do just what Bill did to Dr. Bob. I sell him a rip roaring case of alcoholism. Now, J.R. is at the turning point. J. R. could either say, you know what? I'm not as bad as you. I don't really think that I can't relate to you and we're done. J. R. can either go drink some more or he can go do whatever he's going to do. But I'm telling you, I'm done here because there's no sense spending any more time with J. R. until J. R.'s sold on the idea of the chronic nature of his alcoholism, which is going to kick into the mat. Alcoholism is not just a bad time in your life. It's not just a rough place in the road. And yet we buy into that a lot of times, don't we? We're 30 days from our last drink and we kind of shake it off and we go, but, shit, it wasn't that bad, was it? It was. Don't we, don'T we? And then we get down range and it just... Remember Fred got, Fred says, I don't want what you guys got. Thanks for the thing. And then they leave. And then within a year, he's demoralized again. The debacle happens all over again. And now he calls these guys back and he says, hey, you know, the stuff that you guys said really meant something. And it really sounds like and now I think I understand what you're talking about. And so now we start talking about a little bit of similarity. And then here it is. J.R. does the thing that every every guy that's in a sponsorship role dreams about. He makes the connection. It goes clink and J.R. understands the chronic nature of his disease and that he'll die, die chewing on his tongue or in some some ward someplace. He makes the connection. And once he does, what's the next thing out of J.A.'s mouth? What do I do? Funny you should ask. I simply have a clear cut set of directions here that's guaranteed to get you to a place that you've never, ever dreamed that you would be. And things are going to change in every area of your life. And oh, by the way, you won't ever have to drink or do those other outside issues again. That's pretty heady stuff, guys. But Bill knew that we were going to have all kinds of ideas to do this stuff. And we want to get in J.R. and talk to him about the spiritual stuff. We want to Get J. R. and jam him with a bunch of other stuff. And Bill keeps saying illustration after illustration after demonstration all the way through. They try it again in a vision for you at the very end of the book. They're going to give us one more illustration of how to 12-step somebody and how to get somebody to make that connection. J.R., if he understands he's chronic in nature, and this is true for every man that you've ever sponsored, J.J. understands that the chronic nature of this stuff, he's destined to die. And if he's destin to die, there'll be what? Motivation. Motivition to take the necessary action to recover. Otherwise, J.K.'s just going to sit his butt down at a meeting, drink some coffee, check the women out, and go home and yell at his wife. That's what J.R. will do until the internal condition rekindles itself and he becomes so miserable and so unhappy in his own skin that he's got no choice but to go back out and do one of two things, kill himself or drink. And we're destined to repeat it over and over again. There's nothing ugly about qualifying somebody, guys. Take them to page 44, read the two questions there, and we're off to the races. It doesn't take any time. It takes 10 or 15 minutes to have that conversation. They go, uh-huh, uh‑huh. Uh-huh. Uh-uh. That's it. Now we're ready to slide into step two. We get through this. Step three. Guys, the first step work that I did took me nine months to do. And it was fairly ineffectual. And the only thing it did was get my sponsor off my back. Now fast forward to this experience with Cliff Bishop. In a week and a half, I'd worked the work again all the way through. I had a spiritual experience and there was no question that my life would never, ever be the same again. I had all that stuff right there and it happened quickly. And since then, I've had the occasion to sponsor hundreds and hundreds and hundred of men. I have carried at one point in time, I went six years and was listening to three fifths steps a week. I mean, they call me the McDonald's of sponsorship. I mean, I just, we flat flew through that stuff. And guys are standing over there going, well, you can't do that. Yes, you CAN do that! It's called desperation. When you've got your guy that's desperate, he sets the pace for the work. And you're sitting there kind of as it's coming at you. How many of you guys have chased drunks until you're blue in the face? You've got them by the collar, you're choking them to death, you've done everything you can. You've gotta stay! You've GOTTA... Stop! There's no motivation there. This guy doesn't believe that he still believes that he has some power to make a decision about what he's going to do. And there's where it always ends up in this debacle. You've got a guy that's crawfishing about doing step work, and I promise you, 90 percent of the time it comes back to step one stuff. He simply doesn't think that he said he's let me ask you a question real quick and then I'll shut up and sit down so Chris can do the good stuff. He always gets the good step. So if for the sake of this illustration, we had a physician come in here. And the physician declared every one of you guys with cancer said, buddy, you guys are all screwed. You got it. You got to deal with it. We'd all sit there and the next question in our mind is, what do I got to do? And then he says, Monday, I want you at this clinic doing this work, doing this stuff. Is there anybody in here, anybody that would argue with the doctor? Is there any. Anybody here that would trivialize the statement as it was just handed to you? The worst news you could possibly get. You may die if you don't do this. And yet how many of us come into the fellowship. With a chronic disease that's just as deadly as any cancer that was ever out there. Only by the way, we'll take every loved one we own with us. Everybody we know will go right down the crapper with us and And we trivialize it. We just make excuses. I can't be at that meeting on that night. I can' t. My job is going to keep me away from all meetings for a little while. I'll just have to set it aside for a while. Okay. Okay. And then when you get downrange, life looms large in front of you and you get just knocked all over the place and you're crazy again. Every part of your life is affected. I hope you'll take a hard look at it. I hope you'll look at that deal and say, you know what? If I'd have kept the burner up just a little bit on this thing and done the work like I was supposed to do, I'd be okay. You see, we need to do that kind of stuff. And it's exactly the same way with every guy that you sponsor, everybody that you work with. Of those hundreds of men that I've carried through the work, there was none of them took more than 40 days to do the work. None of them. And most of them were much less than that. One more thing and then we'll quit. Guys ask me all the time. He said, I don't understand how you can sponsor so many men. It's real simple. Here's the perfect illustration. How many of you guys got kids, little kids or have ever had little bitty kids in the house? OK, you got a toddler in the House. He can't barely walk. And this little kid's walking all over the place and you're just right there with him. You're just he leans this way and you lean that way. He walks to the kitchen. You walk to the Kitchen. You're right on him all the time. That's exactly the way it is with a brand new guy in the program. He's there. We're just we're holding him really, really closely watching what goes on. We're instructing the deal. Now, by the time that kid that you were talking about, that toddler gets to high school, he better be pretty healthy from a mental health standpoint. He better be Pretty Healthy. He knows how to stand on his own two feet. He knows How to make his bed. He knows he needs a job. He knows He needs to finish school. He knows the difference between good girls and bad girls. He knows. He knows Well, maybe he doesn't. But I mean, some of us never figured that out is like and some of us are really glad to. It's like it's like but you understand the deal. That's exactly what the deal is. Could I start five men at one time and sponsor them? I only did that once and it was pretty tough to do. No. Could I sort one guy and get him through the bulk of the work and then grab me another guy and getting through the word and gave him another one getting through the work? You betcha. You betcha. The book tells us and it's really clear that his reliance as a new guy needs to be more and more on God. And day by day, as we focus his attention through the work and he begins to have this growth as he begins that happen, he becomes less and less dependent on you. The telephone calls drop to the wayside. I'm not getting so many calls. And he's looking more and More to God as a solution to his problem. And that is what we need to do. Guys, if you're sponsoring a cat right now and you've worked with him for two years and he's still calling you every day with crap. Stop. Quit. Come see me. Let's chat. We're going to work this up because you don't have the time. No wonder you don'T want to grab a new guy and sponsor him. No wonder. You got your hands full with this infant that wants to stay an infant. Quit. Let him go. Let's find out why it is that this guy's not progressing from a mental health standpoint. Why isn't he progressing? What is it that we didn't do that we should have done? And then as you sponsor 20 guys and 30 guys and 40 guys, I've sponsored 50 guys at one time and never missed a beat. It's never a problem. Why is this important? I'll tell you why. Because there are tens of thousands of us that will never ever sponsor anybody. I sponsor five guys right now that all have close to 20 years sobriety And collectively, between the five guys, they've sponsored three men. And we see it all the time. They've got a thousand reasons why they couldn't sponsor anybody, why they wouldn't carry anybody through the work, why they would wouldn't show up for their part of the responsibility. And guess who's going to take up the slack for those lazy bozos? You, you and me and the rest of the guys that are willing to crawl off in the trenches, crawl off into trenches where the fun is. Those are five of the most unhappy men I've ever seen in my whole life. They are absolutely miserable in their own skin. And I got an army, a little bitty guys that are 21, 22 years old or younger. I got one guy that's 15 years old and he's an absolute AA Amazon. He's out there just blowing and going like this. And he's so enthused and he gets out there and he is affecting lives and they're affecting lives and they are affecting lives. and this whole little army raises up and everybody is doing one thing in common. They're working the work the same way and they're smiling the same way. They're laughing their butts off and anybody that visits Primary Purpose Group in Dallas, Texas on a Tuesday night, you're going to see a couple hundred people there and the one thing you'll come away with is, why are these people so happy? Why are they all laughing so much? We laugh because we've recovered and we know crystal clear what our primary purpose is to carry a message of recovery to the other guy. And the guys on the outside can say it's pathetic and the guys looking in from those other goofy meetings can say, you guys are a bunch of losers. And you know what? I don't give a rat's butt. I don' t care. This busted up drunk for the very first time in his life understands on a gut level what my primary purpose is. My primary purpose is to find me a drunk that still suffered and go help him. And watch the miracle that happens from that. I love you guys and we'll have some question stuff and whatever Chris doesn't cover we'll cover it in question stuff thank you he's so rigid My name is Chris Ramer. I'm a recovered alcoholic. How can you not get excited? You know, the truth is that there are people out there that will, even if you give them a clear message of hope and tell them what to do, they're not going to do it. We live in a society where there's a certain section of us that want to remain victims. We learn how to manipulate the system, being a victim. And we're going to stay a victim because it works for us as a payoff. And that's what we're gonna do. I'm not talking about those poor souls are destined to die, destined to die. Our job is to make sure that the newcomer gets to hear the solution. Don't assume that I don't want the message if you've never given me the message with this. Any of you guys in sales? It's like, you know, sooner or later, you got to ask for the order. You can talk until your head falls off. Sooner or later. You got any money? You're goingto buy this or not, you You know, and it's the same thing here. We just try to our whole focus here is to try to get to the point quicker than later because I begin that window of opportunity we were talking about. Mark, I'm sure this afternoon is going to talk about this thing called ego. The resurgence of the ego is the damnedest thing I've ever seen in my life. I work at a hospital and I get to see the things that happen as a result. The guys come in and just like Meyer said, you know, they're all detox and they're coming to the store where I work and they'll be crying. And I'll do anything, anything you ask me to do. All you can do to keep them from getting on their hands and knees and begging, you know, is just like, oh, come on, buddy. You know, give them give them three weeks. Give them three week. Get them detoxed and watch the resurgence of the ego start to come back. And now they're walking around campus bitching about everything. You follow? You always know when it's happening because they'll be walking by and they'll been sitting on the front row. And then, you know, a week later, you'll see them in the back and they're sitting in the back and I got their arm around some good looking girl in treatment with them, you know. And God sent her to me. Don't you understand? That is so messed up. She'll fix me, they'll fix me. Work. God fixes me. Front of the book, Bill Wilson says nothing will so much ensure the immunity from our drinking as intensive work. That's how we grow spiritually. I've seen so many people out there who have spiritual experiences, know a lot of people that have had spiritual experiences and lost those experiences because they failed to enlarge their spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice for others is what the book says doesn't mean because i pray a lot or because i go to this monastery and do my fifth step or with this that and the other not knocking any of that i'm saying that's not how we grow spiritually we grow spiritual by working with another guy and every time i get a new little guy to work with i'm in for the ride of my life because it's a different story and it's different and i and i get the bond of one man to another and it it's you cannot help but grow spiritually yourself by being a part of somebody else's life. But it's like Myers alluded to, there's so many people that never get a chance to do that because they have set themselves up. They've listened to the party line BS and AA that this sponsorship deal is so difficult. It's not. Guys, there are three things that I do as a sponsor. The first thing is absolutely imperative. It is called exactly what Myers was talking about, qualifying the drunk. We're going to qualify this cat. It isn't AA's job to qualify this new guy. It's the sponsor's job to qualify the new guy and make sure that he's in the right room. Make sense? Maybe he's just a little knucklehead with mental problems and he wants to come into the rooms. He's welcome. When I was talking at Reading a couple of weeks ago or last week, whenever it was, I told this story. I was in a meeting not long ago and we were talking on page 21 about the real alcoholic, but what about the real alcoholic? And this guy's got really pissed about that. He said, what is this real alcoholic stuff? Quote unquote, if I say I'm an alcoholic, I'm a real alcoholic. I'm not an alcoholic. You can call yourself a duck for all I care. It doesn't mean you are one. You see, and we have a responsibility knowing what an alcoholic is, a real alcoholic, guys, this fatal progressive illness. Guys, alcoholism is genetic. It's we have the juries in on this. I work in the industry. We all the statistics, all the studies are out. Alcoholism is generic. Alcoholicism is not causal. A bad thing that happened to you can cause you become causal, cause you to drink or drug to excess. But Bill Wilson, three or four places in the book, spends really clear time trying to differentiate between those hard drinkers and the real alcoholic. If you're a hard drinker, you're in a bad relationship and the drinking is exacerbated by that relationship. Go to good therapy, go to treatment, get some information, get out of that relationship, and guess what happens to your drinking. You stop or moderate. It's a miracle. You were never an alcoholic to begin with, but I've done it every time I've talked from the podium. How many of you guys drank and drugged when life was great? How many guys drank a drug when life was crap. Good day, bad day, lots of money, no money, great relationship, crappy relationship. Just leave them up. Y'all understand? It's so freeing. It's so free because I spent 10 years in therapy trying to figure out why I drank. And it's Like, I was so disappointed when I found out that that was not the reason. I was so disappointed, so disillusioned. I got out of that relationship thinking that was what was causing me to drink and now I miss her. No shit. Okay. We'll go get you another one. It'll be the same thing. But you see, this guy was confused. He said, here's what he thinks we're saying when we read this, is that everybody's not welcome in AA and everybody is welcome in AA. I don't give a rat's butt. I don't care. I'll stand party line desire to not drink. The long form says you've got to be one of us. We don't ever read the long form, so stick with the short form by God. If you want to be a member of Alcoholics Anonymous and you have a desire to say Jews, you call yourself a member and you're a member. I'm not going to I don' t care. But guys, we've got to get clear, folks. You better make sure the person you're talking to is the real McCoy or that person could kill you with their bullshit. I was talking to, uh, I've told some of y'all this story shared on CDs, talking to a lady down the Valley. It was just incensed. When I said this from the podium, we were talking about the real alcoholic and she was just in sense. She, you know, you don't understand him when I fought, she came up afterwards and took exception with my talk. I was about the antidepressants and she thought I was taking a shot at them and I'm not, I took them all my adult life and on into sobriety. I took antidepressants. It just so happened that I had a spiritual experience a couple of weeks later and was able to get off the damned antideressants. Your case may tell you what to do. I'm saying she heard what she wanted to hear. Chris, you're knocking antidegressants. I'm not. She told her story. She had trouble sleeping. She couldn't sleep. She was an insomniac. She went to the doctor. They got on antidepresants that had a barbiturate stuck on the ass so she could sleep and she's never had a drink since. And so I said, so you went to a doctor and got a pill and now you're sober and never had a drink since. That's right. I said, then you're not an alcoholic. It hit the fan. I mean, I'm married to a little Yankee from New York about this high off the ground and she's standing between me and the lady trying to protect me. You know what I mean? This lady was pissed. Now, do I have a problem with that lady being in the fellowship? Absolutely not. I have a problem with the women she sponsors. Because she didn't have to work the 12 steps. She's 13 years sober. She didn't need to work 12 steps in order to have a spiritual experience. All she had to do was go to a doctor and get a pill. I'm so happy for her, but that was not my experience. Make sense? I've heard my brother say it. I'm not worried about what she's doing. I'm glad she's well and happy. I'm worried about the women he sponsors. You've got to qualify the newcomer. You ask them, do you understand the physical allergy? When you start to drink, do you sometimes lose control and drink more than you intended? Not every time. The book says, though, the phenomenon of craving never takes place in normal drinkers. Do y'all understand that? I give everybody one bonus puke. When they start to drinking, every kid... Guys, the world is full of people that's going to start drinking today. Y'all understand that? And they're going to drink to excess because they don't know what the crap will do to them. They're going go to their first kegger and they're gonna drink too much and they'll puke and they say, damn, I'm never going to do that again. And you know what? They don't. I said the same thing at my first keggers hung over from hell the next day. And I said, I am never going do that agian. I did. You follow? There is a physical thing that happens with us called craving that takes place. It's one of the symptoms. You have to exhibit this symptom in order to qualify to be an alcoholic. The phenomena called craving as the disease progresses, it gets worse. You'll be less likely to control it. How many times have I set out to drink just a little? I'm going to that company picnic and I'm just going to drink a couple because all the big shots are there. And I don't want to make an ass of myself, which I'm perfectly capable of doing from experience. You with me? And before the day's over, I mean, I'm in front of the executive chef explaining how he should run the kitchen. not a great career move on my part. What happened? I started to drink, it got away from me and I drank too much. You with us at that point? It's like being allergic to a food. This is where society gets confused because they all say, well, if you know it's the first one that gets you and the craving kicks in, just don't drink the first One. And we have therapists for 10 years trying to help me not drink the First One. Chris, why did you choose to drink the 1st One? The big book spends 20 pages from 23 to 43, clearly explaining why I can't make a decision to stop and manage it. If you can make a decision to stop and make it stick, you're not an alcoholic. You're a hard drinker. And guys, this is like this is so controversial coming from the podium because people would. This is what the book says. How many times did I make a conscious decision. I don't mean these little lightweight, you know, one day I need to quit this stuff. You know, I mean, I'm sitting in front of the medicine cabinet in the bathroom by myself with the door locked, crying my eyes out. I cannot believe I did this again. I am not going to do this again and I poured the stuff out and I got rid of everything and I made a commitment when I went to AA in 1980. It was after one of those crying, tearful nights of humiliation. I am never going to go to AA and everything's going to be OK. I went to AA and everything was not okay. Because just not drinking, I said earlier, does not treat alcoholism. And two weeks out, three weeks out my head starts to tell me it's okay. Just smoke pot. Nowadays it's not that now it's you could probably eat a Lannesta. Oh my God. Yeah, you probably can And if your disease has progressed as far as mine was The phenomenon of craving will kick in around those stupid medications And you'll go back to the alcohol And then you'll walk back into AA crying Hey, I don't know what happened Sure you do You took a drug that changes the way you feel And thought you would be impervious You can't do that Nothing when i read those pages in 1987 when those old geezers opened that page to page 24 and said that i don't have a power of choice and drink it changed my life it clearly explained to me why i kept doing the same stuff over and over and again it explained why i was not a misbehaved individual i was sick it's a form of mental insanity and the underlying And the underpinning of this whole thing is that spiritual malady we've been talking about, this internal discomfort that makes me want to drink to begin with. I can stop drinking, but the further away I get from the drink, the more that internal condition starts to come back. And all of a sudden, I don't understand. I'm getting confused. I haven't drank in weeks. But the depression's back and the boredom and the low self-esteem and the feeling of uselessness like the book talks about. And I'm having difficulty focusing. And you're with us? It's exactly what the book says. It's called untreated alcoholism. I talk to therapists all the time. I'm in the industry and I talk to therapists All the time we understand about you. I talked to one two weeks ago master level social worker wanting to come talk to me. Well Chris we understand that when the alcoholic puts the alcohol in their body they're off to the races. They don't have a choice but before they put that in their body of course they have a choice. And I'm just free it freaks me out. God, making three times the amount of money I am and you don't have a clue what this disease is about. Now, listen, guys, I don't know. I don' I don''t have a choice whether I'm going to drink. That's what the insanity is about I have thousands of choices. I have a Choice whether I''m going to get on the spiritual path and stay there or not You with us? And that's what those guys in 1987 Offered me. They offered me the choice. Chris, do you want To get on this spiritual path with us and never drink again? Because that's a choice. If I choose no, I don't have a choice downstream, I will drink again. Because I will not be able to remember the consequences of a week or a month ago, just like the book said. Make sense, guys? Our first job with sponsors is to qualify them. Exactly what Meyer said, give them a good case of alcoholism. They come in and thinking that their drinking is all about the situation. And we need to explain that it's not about the situation. Some of y'all are wearing little issue man pins. They're floating around everywhere. I'll be glad to send you some if you want some. But there's a little X's outside this little guy. Those are the issues. Those arethe outside things that we want to talk about incessantly. And every newcomer that comes in, that's what they want to take away from us. That's what we want them to talk about. Myers calls it the Holy Trinity. You know, I come back in and I want my butts on fire until I get the truck and the job and the girl. And then I'm well, everything's cool. Well put. I'm convinced if I get that stuff outside, but I don't understand is this little dark spot in the center of this little guy. That's what I need to treat. And I can't treat it. God treats it spiritually. It is a miracle. People come to Alcoholics Anonymous and they always want to do this. In the groups that I tried to sober up in the early 80s, they told us point blank. Y'all don't talk about God so much. You're going to scare off the newcomer. You're right. It did. Unbelievable. Second job as a sponsor is to teach, to show them based on your experience what the 12 steps are about. Sit them down, work them through the work quickly. 30 days max. Early guys in AA, that's what they all did. I don't know why we've got so many people out there in AA land with 20 and 30 years telling people to take their time to work the steps. All you've got to do is open up any conference approved literature And it talks about Bill and Bob and Bill D, number three, and the rest of the cats, Clarence Snyder, all work in the steps quickly. But we think it's perfectly OK for us to take our time. It's not. We're playing Russian roulette. Teach them. Teach them about the traditions. The new people need to know about the tradition. They need to understand meeting etiquette. Come to the meeting on time. Go pee now. You know, come back in. Sit down. It's just an hour. Thank the speaker. Meeting etiquette. Talk three minutes, no more. Oh, it's the noose around some of our necks that have been sober a few days, you know, to think that what we have is so much more important to share than what the little newcomers got to share. I think everybody that comes into that meeting needs a chance to participate in some way or they're not going to stay. Make sense? It's in our formats at our meetings, three minutes and you get a bell rung on you. We got that idea from a grapevine article. Great article. It means if you're 20 years sober, you've got three minutes to share. If you're 30 days sober,you've got 3 minutes to spare. Make it good. Guys, any of us If you're talking longer than three minutes You're repeating yourself anyway You're competing yourself anyway Talk once You don't have to comment on everything every speaker says If you chair in a meeting Chair the damn meeting Shut up It's an interesting comment he just made Let me tell you about my Shut up Everybody applauds when I talk about that from the podium And they go right back to the meeting and let it happen Change your formats To not allow that to happen This is our job, we teach the newcomers What to do, how to behave How to treat our women in the fellowship The guys I sponsor, I spend a lot of time Talking to them about their treatment of the opposite sex You're a whore You're an animal Stop treating women with disrespect If you leave them alone, let them get their feet on the ground before you go over there and start pecking on her neck. I don't know. No, I don'T tell guys that I sponsored, but they can't date for a year. Show me in the book where it says that horse crap. If you could not date a year and you're single Your libido's dead I don't know what to tell you You've got everything in the process We're going to have a great fun at this Question and answer after lunch I guarantee you Next thing we do guys Is get them through the 12 steps We've held them accountable That's what we do Is we hold them accountable That's what exactly the spot that Myers was talking about. Once I get you through the 12 steps, you're out there. Now I'm going to hold you accountable. I'm gonna make sure when I'm sponsoring you, I want you in some meetings with me so that I can look at your little beady eyes and I can check on you and see how you're doing. And I'm wanna watch your ass. I'm gotta make sure that you're doin' the right stuff. We've got a group, a little accountability group that we do with the guys I sponsor. Some people take shots at it because they think it's AA elitist. It's not. It's just a great way for me to work with the guy's I sponsor I sponsor a lot of guys. They sponsor a lot of people. We get together a lot of guys every other Thursday we get a chance to get in one room together and we hold each other accountable. We do a little mini steel on steel and we look at the areas of our life. How many men are you sponsoring? How many commitments have you got? Y'all know what I mean by commitment? Well, I'm committed to the Wednesday night meeting. That's not a commitment. What's your job at the Wednesday night meeting? You with us? That's a commitment. See? Yeah. Yeah, taking H&I meetings to halfway houses and treatment centers and carrying the message. We hold them accountable. You've come to that group a couple of times and you haven't picked up any new commitments? We're going to ask you about that. We're gonna hold you accountable. It's not okay that you just sit in meetings. I don't care how busy you are. You're gonna do something. You're going be of service somehow. You're gonnna get on some committee. You're gunna do something to give back to this fellowship. If you're if you're in my sponsorship lineage, which is Mark's sponsorship lineage. That's what you're going to do. That's why he taught me. That's when I'm teaching them make sense. It's just it's just we get a chance to talk, visit. Everybody gets to know each other. And then if I'm traveling and I'm out of way and they can't get hold of me and they got a problem, they got somebody else to call. I stopped setting myself on some kind of a pedestal. You come to me and talk to me about that. You talk to anybody in my sponsorship lineage because the message is the same. Make sense? It's pretty cut and dry, folks. You're in my sponsorship lineage. You're sober two months, three months, 90 days, and you're not actively working with somebody else? We're going to sit down and have a chat. The guys in 1987 that got me, they asked me to chair a meeting one morning, and I said no because I was embarrassed. I was afraid I'd screw it up, and I didn't. I was scared. They said, Chris, buddy, point blank is that you've been a taker all your life. It's time to start being a giver. And I know it's uncomfortable. I'm not asking you to do it by yourself. I'm going to sit here right here with you and help you chair your first meeting. Oh, I hated his guts. But I did it. See, none of this is comfortable, guys. I don't know if y'all know this about me. Some of y'all have been friends of mine for years and y'al know I'm the shyest person you'll ever want to come across. I'm not a very good conversationalist one on one, as some of yall have already found out. It's not that I don't it's not that I Don't love you and don't want to know about your life is that I just don't know what to say after we talk about the big book a little bit. And now this I just I small talk. I just Don't do real well with it. It's just me. It was tough. You know, the hardest thing I did when I got back to this fellowship was was just to participate. stopped sitting against the wall and started coming in here and sitting with you guys. It was the hardest thing for me to do, to volunteer, to share at a meeting. But that's what I require my guys to do. You're going to get flat-ass in the middle of this thing or you're going go away because we've got way too many people sitting on the periphery dying. And you know when they relapse, what they do? They walk out of these rooms and they say, well, AA doesn't work. Been there, done that. AA, the program works perfectly well. I want to mention something real quick because I probably won't have a chance later on. I've gotten a bunch of emails from people who want to take exception with the belief that this program works for everybody. I'm going to tell you something, folks. There's no way that I could have the same experience that every single person in this room has. Uh, I need to just say it. I will never know what it's like to be a black man. I will Never Know What It's Like To Be Gay. I Will Never Know. Thank God What It'S Like To BE A Woman. I Just Don'T Know. But This Crap That Seems To Proliferate It Out There In Our AA Land To Believe That We Have To Have A Separate Program For All Of These People Is Ludicrous. If we understand what the problem is, Big Book talks on page 129. It talks about in those first days of convalescence, nothing will help an alcoholic stay sober like intensive work with other alcoholics. You're with us in those First Days of Convalescent. That means we've all got to get out there and start working with others as quickly as possible. That doesn't mean sponsorship. It does mean working with others. It means you've got to get out of your head a little bit. That's why the guys that I sponsor all volunteer to do some little committee. They've gotto get involved or they won't stay. Make sense? Crystal clear there, guys. It also says on page 98, I want the opportunity to read this and I'll shut up and sit down. because I'm tired of taking shots about this. Everybody hears what they want to hear when we speak from the podium. AA is not therapy. AA is now, nor ever has been, a dumping ground for your problems. on page 98, it says it is not the matter of giving that's in question, but when and how to give that often makes the difference between failure and success. The minute we put our work on a service plane, the alcoholic commences to rely upon our assistance rather than upon God. He Claimers for this or that, claiming he cannot master alcohol until his material needs are cared for. Nonsense. That's Bill Wilson's word, not mine. Some of us have taken very hard knocks to learn this truth. Job or no job, wife or no wife, we simply do not stop drinking so long as we place dependence upon other people ahead of ourselves. And that's why I'm trying to say from this podium, all of us need to understand sponsors are not gurus. Sponsors are people who have had a similar experience around alcohol, who've had spiritual experiences as a result of working the 12 steps. And our one job, our primary purpose is to carry that message back to the newcomer. Those cats in 1987 knew that if they didn't get me connected to God quickly, I wasn't going to stay sober. They didn't know what I was supposed to do with my relationships or my money or my job. We spend way too much time trying to fix the person's life and not near enough time trying to get them to God so that God could teach them what to do in their life. Make sense? I mean, I listen to people talk about sponsorship in meetings and it just takes my breath away. Where in the hell are you hearing that crap? It goes back to what we were talking about. You can't date anybody for a year. Here's one of my favorites. Don't make any major decisions for the first year. Buddy, my life was so screwed up when I got to this fellowship. If I hadn't made some major decisions, I would have died. You down with this? Some of you are nodding your head laughing and some of you lockjawed. Because that's some of the stuff that you're talking about. I'm just saying, how do I know what that person needs to get? How many of you guys have ever got into a triangulated argument with a guy you're sponsoring and his wife? You with us? how uncomfortable that is? Well, this is what I think you should do there. Shut up. Help him finish it. Guys, quickly. JR, have I got time? Five minutes. Guy comes in, we qualify him. The very next thing is you ask if he's got a problem with God. Book says over half of our fellowship doesn't have a problem of God. So I don't know why it is that we want to spend endless hours talking about steps two and three. You got a problem with God? Let's talk about it a little bit. If you don't, let's get on to the third step prayer. That's what they did with me. I didn't have a problem believing in God. I knew there was a God. It was raised that way. You with us? If there's a problem mit God and he gets locked out, I don't believe in God, buddy. This is about God. I don' t believe in god. Are you willing to believe there's God? No. Say thank you. I can't help you. Bye-bye. Oh, you ought to see some people get this uncomfortable in here. It's not my job to convince them to do this. Let them go drink another six months. Maybe they'll come back and be a little more teachable, a little more open-minded. The absolute arrogance of us. The absolute arrogance of us. The only message that we have for the newcomer is this thing called a spiritual experience. we're gonna but we're going to argue with him about this let the booze argue for you buddy buddy give him your card i heard somebody else say it i think don earlier i've never fired a sponsee in my life i've patted lots of them on the butt and said go do what you got to go do buddy and i'm here when you get ready and that's what i do third step prayer great paragraph talks about god removing the difficulties so that we can bear witness to that back in our meeting so We can share the good hope. We get on our knees. We do a third step prayer. We get up next. It says we launched out on, of course, the vigorous action. Not six months from now, not two weeks from now. Right now. Next. We get a notebook. We open the pages. We explain what the fourth step is. Guys, it's a fact finding mission. It's a fat finding mission is not a life. God, every little detail, everything I want current inventory. Who are you pissed at today? I hear people in meetings all the time. I'm working on my fourth step. Six months later, I'm still working on my fourth set. It's a clear indication that you didn't give him a good case of alcoholism in the first step. Obviously, there's no urgency to get this stuff finished. If you leave some stuff off, if you forget some stuff, God will constantly redisclose to you some other things. Every time I do another fourth and fifth step, some new stuff comes down the pike. Let's get the big stuff out. Dump it. Fifth step. Simple. It's not this 11-hour confession. This step is not about a confession. It's about a fact-finding mission. I want to find out what my part is. Where have I been selfish, fearful, and dishonest? So I can clean that crap up. Y'all with us? Simple. A couple hours. Boom. Max. Done. I see my truth. Thank you very much. From the fifth step, I've got my six-step list of character defects. And I've gotta go make. And I talk to my sponsor about it. And I get up an hour later. I do seventh step prayer. It drives me crazy. I've been to workshops where they talk all day long about six and seven. It's two paragraphs. I understand we have to practice getting better. We're going to ask God. and I understand we have a list of them and I know what we need to know. We need to be aware of them before we can take care of them. I'm down with that. Guys, how much effort does this take? God's going to be doing the removing. I don't practice not being a weasel. God makes me not be a weASEL. I don' t know. What part of this changed at the cellular level aren't you all understanding? God does the changing. I got my eight step list. I go out and start making amends. My sponsor had me doing ten and eleven from day one. Cleaning up the wreckage of your past. Chris, you got a little snappy with that guy in the meeting. Go make him in. That's 10-step stuff. 11-step prayer and meditation. You do that every day. The directions are in the book. They had me doing it from day one. Now what do you got left to do? Carry the message. You'll follow? We want to complicate this. It's not that complicated. Thanks very much. Thank you.