Sponsorship and Accountability – Sponsorship Workshop – Part 2 of 2

John, I got tickets to the Mav game and I can't. Well, did you ever drink at a Mavs game? Yep. Well, then I guess you're going to be at the meeting instead. I got friends who've got boxes at the Mavericks game. Never been to them. I got meetings on Tuesday nights. If I can go on an off night, I go. Accountability is not a bad word in Alcoholics Anonymous. It is not. It's not a good word. I do not run hurt over the guys that I sponsor. I am accountable to my sponsor. My sponsor knows me better than I know myself. My sponsor can spot BS out of my mouth. If my sponsor sees me screwing up, he will tell me. That is accountability. It's not him trying to micromanage my life. But when I screw up, he calls me on it. Me, Myers, and Michael Kelly made a pact a long time ago. Hey, if we start screwing up like that guy, can we call each other accountable? Right? Hey, If I see you, if you see me screwing Up, please pull me aside and say, Hey, man, I heard what you said, and that's way off. Please. I've heard the story. Oh, did you hear so-and-so relapse? And then somebody pipes up. Oh, I know. I saw him last Tuesday at the meeting, and he looked like crap. And I'm like, well, did you talk to him? No. My sponsor holds me accountable, right? And I hope that, like he said, like Ed said, I hope I'm open-minded and willing enough to be held accountable. Because sometimes, you know what, I screw up. And sometimes I say the wrong things. And sometimes, I make mistakes. And I share that with Cliff. And Cliff says, you don't have a right to treat God's kids that way. and that's me being accountable and that is where we can grow I just thought about when I first got sober it was one of our first anniversaries that Joe spoke over here and I busted up my leg pretty bad and couldn't even walk I was in bad shape so I called Cliff and said I'm not going to be there he said if you need a drink would that have stopped you from it it would not have I would have, you know, begged, borrowed, and steal. And I was in tears and had to get somebody to bring me dinner, and I couldn't even walk. But that would not have stopped me from getting to the liquor store. I would've been over at the neighbor's putting the boo-hoo, woo-hoo story on them. I'd been lying, cheating, kind of whatever the hell I needed to do to get a drink. But that's a question I had to ask myself, and nobody could have answered it for me. Was I using it as a mere excuse? Can I say something? You may. Thank you. I wanted to say, too, that this holding each other accountable, the sponsor, and usually through the 10th step and all, it's also that last part of that 12th step. We're practicing. We're practising these principles. And sometimes we don't even know that we're not. And if we call our sponsor on a regular basis and let them know what's going on in our lives, then maybe we can learn how to practice these a little bit better. We never get there. We are always learning how to apply these principles in new places. What? Oh. Sorry. We always learn how. I always eavesdrop it. We always try to apply the, we constantly continuously try, and it comes through the 10th step. But it's also a huge part of that 12th step, we read that first part, Let's go carry this message. But wait a minute, we've got to continue to grow and that's how we continue to grow and that's how we hold each other accountable the sponsor to the protege. Did that make any sense at all? I was trying to put too much in there I thought. Can I add something to that? Also the thing that I noticed is as our group gets bigger and we need to start holding ourselves more accountable just like we're doing today, the longer we stay sober, I think, you know, we reach periods of growth, you know, where we need to start aiming higher. And that becomes even more critical at an individual level. Yes. Thanks, Cindy. Humility is the goal, isn't it? All right. Number 13. If someone suggests that one of my prot�g�s might be off the path, do I try to defend them? I distance, personally. No, just kidding. Sorry, that was just a little levity to see if y'all are still awake. Do I try to defend them or do I listen to see if the person I am responsible for might benefit from learning where they might have fallen short? And that's a good thing. I mean, you know, if I'm falling short or whatever, I can assure you, Ed, I don't try to defend my guys. I try and get both sides of the story and see. because, again, this is an opportunity for growth. And sometimes we do, unbeknownst to us, we do something that might not be copacetic and it may be brought to my attention that, hey, so-and-so over here is saying some crazy stuff at this wind-up joint and you're supposed to do step three and he gets up and talks about something else and it's not appropriate or whatever. I want that brought tomy attention So I can talk to my guy and say, hey, you know, this is what we're trying to do here. Keep it on the same page. Do all this stuff. But it's a chance for all of us to become better and more effective. And those are the things that we should be asking ourselves. Is the message I'm carrying, am I being effective? Am I being a good representative, a good steward, I guess? Do I believe that my longevity and sobriety is dependent on my constant willingness to try and help others and that I only keep what I have got by giving it away and that the only way to be successful in AA is to die sober and live in the 12 steps. Hey, I just ask God every day to keep me hungry. I want to keep doing what I'm doing. I don't ever want to get complacent. I don'T ever want TO look back at my days being sober and go, Wow, I'VE BEEN ROCKING AND ROLLING FOR, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER MANY DAYS IT'S BEEN. I THINK I'M GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE BREAK. Say my prayer, ask God for guidance. Take away those difficulties that block me from Him and from you. And I try to do what I'M supposed to do. And that's what I try to do. Yeah, I can fall short in a lot of areas of the program about alcoholics and all this in 10-11. But you go back to this 12-step work that says nothing will so much ensure immunity from drinking as intense work with other alcoholics. And the phenomenal thing about this, if I'm working with you, it's going to get me back on track of what I'm falling short in. It's kind of a crazy little deal. But if I'm sitting there asking you to spend this much quiet time in prayer and meditation to ten-step me to make these amends, it's all coming back to me. This is the crazy thing about this, and this is what I need to be doing. But then the other hook is, is it all about my ego thinking I'm going to go out there and save the world? Well, no, I'm out there to ensure my own sobriety and perfect as large as my spiritual life through doing this. Damnedest thing I've ever seen, but it works. You got a comment? I just wanted to say, you know how we talk about we've learned that we're going to have to abandon ourselves utterly. And I think that we don't do that one time. I think if we do that and we learn to develop or hope we learn to develop some sort of humility by abandoning self and the way to abandon self, what this book teaches us. Did y'all hear the mic? Oh, I was yelling my very best. Try again. I really was. I thought that was surely loud. Okay, you think I don't yell at people, but I do. I forgot. It was about, this is not something we do just once in a while. Oh yeah, stop it making your face, you'll get there. You talk to me when you're 62. It is, we abandon ourselves utterly to God and we do that on a daily basis. And what we're seeking here is some sort of humility. And if you can't get that through sponsorship and 12-step stuff, I don't know where the heck you're going to get it. But it is readily available, and that is what we're looking for. And when they're talking about abandoning self, they mean all the way. I don'T know of any one person who has ever could say that they have. I've known a lot of people probably close. But to actually abandon self is a moment-by-moment, practice the presence deal. That's it. Thanks, dear. I got to say this before I give it back. We were doing a meeting in a wind-up joint one day and following Cliff in there, and Cliff asked this guy how he was doing. He says, I'm perfect, Cliff looked at him and says, I guess we can fit you for a cross, and I thought, holy cow, I'll never say that. All right. I know we might get into a little restless. We've got like three or four more on this. Ed's going to cover a little bit of gossip, and I think what we're going to do is we're going to take like a little short break so everybody can stand up and get the blood circulating, whatever, smoke, but short break, okay? Short break. All right? Number 15, do I understand the importance of getting a prospect to take the steps as soon as possible and as quickly as possible. You know, page 24 says I've got a week or a month or some small window for me to get from a hopeless state of mind and body to the power that's going to save my behind. And why on the earth would my sponsor want to keep me from the solution that's gonna save my back? Hey, we all make mistakes. I mean, I know I made a ton, still do, But, I mean, I remember early on, man, it was like wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. Just McDonald's fast soup, you know. You said hi to me in 1999. Bam, we were in the steps. And I realize that today. I realize today that that was probably a mistake in a lot of those cases. I don't have a template of how I take a guy through the steps because some guys I have to read the book to. Some guys I have to go through it word by word and explain every single concept and every single word sometimes. But if they understand their truth that they are screwed in step one and they've got some hope in step two and they have read and we have gone through this information and they are willing to do what I do, which is out of this book, then we're going to go Through the Steps in a very timely fashion so that that person can have the same opportunity that I have to get to the power that saves their behind. Bill Wilson is very precise in his writing. If he would have meant for us to take our time through the steps, he would've wrote it that way. There's 12 steps, there's 12 months. Perfect. He would've written it that same way. He would have wrote that. He didn't. You read the history. And I encourage you, if you like reading stuff like that, get online, search the archive stuff, and you will see article after article after inference after inference, book, cross-reference, whatever, When they got a new guy, they did the little prayer in the upstairs room. They took him down and they got him to the work immediately. And lots of times doing steps 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, start making amends in one day, one afternoon. Bam! How bad do you want to be free? What right do I have to keep you away from the power that's going to save your life? But what right doI have to rush you through when you don't know what you're doing? So we're going to, we've got to find out. And that's a one-by-one basis. Some guys you can do it, you know, a couple of these knuckleheads that I work with, man, it was like once they were ready, they were convinced, we got through the steps in a hurry, and two weeks later, they're little sunbeams for AA, you now, and have been that way. Number 16. Yes? Stand up. Up. Stand up! Stand up? Stand up!! you know, and I don't think he can be stressed enough because John touched on it. There is no one template for one person. If I don' t understand the problem speeding me through a solution is going to cause more damage and as long as we understand that we're going to apply it but until that problem is laid out to this person and they understand it and the desperation is there then yes, speeding them through the solution in order to step away But if a person doesn't understand the problem, finding them through the solution will probably cause them more damage than you could ever do. That's why the book spends 50-some pages outlining the problem before they ever touch the solution. And if you look at it, we're looking at 20 pages after that 50 that will cover steps 3 through 10, which gets them moving fairly quick. But the one thing that we don't want to have misinterpreted here is that you know what? You see the guy, he looks your way, give him truth, you know, what kind of argument are you going to give him? The next thing you know this guy's on step 10 because that's where we cause some of the most damage by our exuberance in looking at this and saying, you know what, let's get this individual through it as quickly as possible while ignoring the problem. Thank you, Michael. And, you know, the reason for that is we are responsible as sponsors or as 12-steppers, whatever it is, to be sure that they understand that first step before we move on because it's the same old, same old. Somewhere down the road, I may think, well, I have been in AA. I have done the steps in AA, never understood the problem, but I did the steps like those people said. Well then, I don't want to be that person who sends you there. I don' t want you alone with whatever gun that you have and sitting there trying to decide, well AA didn' t work. I did it just like it was in the book, and it didn't work. And that's why we're responsible, and it is taking responsibility for another person's life when we 12-step and when we sponsor. And I do believe that God controls the results, but I think we need to be aware of that and ask for help in that area when we're talking to somebody, and not just be sitting there wondering what the heck's going on, scratching our head, or letting them tell us. Oh, yeah, I already know that. Really? What is that? What do you mean? What does the allergy mean? So anyway, I just wanted to say that. I'm glad that Michael brought that up because we're the ones who are responsible to help them understand the reality of the nature of this disease. Otherwise, they may be left with the ultimate solution. Can I add? Go ahead. I was going to say that convincing me as a sponsor that you're an alcoholic, what Ed had said earlier and what Dara just said is so important because the most painful moments for me as the sponsor has been when I've sponsored someone who is giving me lip service that they say they're an alcohol. Like they say that they've got the allergy and the mental obsession, but I don't think they're convinced, right? And they haven't convinced me. and then they do fall, you know, fall by the wayside and then I haven't done my job. And that is incredibly painful when you've assumed the responsibility for someone's life. You don't want to do that. So it's real important to let them convince you. It's probably the most difficult that it may seem because if we do an effective job of telling our story and drinking, the problems we have and how we try desperately to quit ranching and fail time after time. And they relate to that, and they're part of the heart. They're not going to be, we won't have to encourage them to do anything. They're going to say, what do I do? As long as they do it, we've got one on the face. If, on the other hand, they start finding excuses, the best thing to do is turn the police right thing. Get them back out there and finish the job. Thank you. They'll be catching them in the early evening, right after they're coming off the drum. Which is very difficult to do. Today's fellowship has so many that have gone through the failed process of drying out. They miss the holes. They catch them coming off a drum and get busy right then. The odds are very, very good if we do the right kind of job telling our story. They're going to try to take it away from us. If you just met after you had terminal cancer, if the doctor had the procedures that he said absolutely would not fail, and you followed the directions, how long would it take you to decide to do this? In case you didn't hear what Cliff was saying in the back, I'm glad you said that, Cliff, because I was going to follow up. But really understand the seriousness of the condition, which means I'm faced with life or death. I'm going to die this drunk, you know. The newcomer or prospect is not going to wait a whole lot of time. They're going to show up and ask the simple question, what do I have to do? And they will follow directions. It's an illness, just like you take cancer or anything else. You make a decision based upon that information on what you're going to do. All right, what Darren and Michael was talking about, if we kind of push them through this thing and they don't understand what the hell they've got, then they're not going to have the desperation to come through with it and the motivation behind doing it is going to be clearly for different reasons to fix some other problem, it's not going to work. And a good doctor would stop it in the middle of it if I wasn't following treatment and wasn't follow directions. He wouldn't want to do me any more harm. And that's what good sponsorship would be. Wendy? Thank you. Thank you. And if they tell me, you know, we have worksheets on our work site too. You know, except one, two, and three worksheet. There's nothing wrong with buying them while they're in treatment. Go through that so we can see. You know how willing are they? Are they just trying to get a name out of people's paper or are they really curious about what's going on? That's true. Absolutely. All right. Thank you, Wendy. If the prospect lacks the complete willingness to follow directions, Am I willing to suggest that they may not have a problem so there's no reason to invest any more time with trying to help them? Remember, alcohol is the great persuader. No kidding. No. I mean, again, it kind of falls back to that qualification. I mean if I'm convinced of step one, these suggestions aren't that drastic. But if I're not convinced, then going to a wind-up facility on a Friday night may cramp my style. You know, do I and will I call somebody on that? Yeah, you bet. And there's some great guys in this group tonight that I don't sponsor. You know somebody else is sponsoring them now. But when I was trying to help we didn't match right away. And that's okay. You know they got what they needed to get and they got where they needed to get. And now they're willing and everything's cool. But yeah as a sponsor it's my responsibility. If, you know, my sponsor laid it out to me. We meet Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays. Your job is to be here. You also went through Homeward Bound, so your job is to be there on Friday. That leaves you three nights a week to do your laundry, go to the movie, mow the lawn. And I expect to hear from you every day. Quick. All right. There's my marching orders. I do what I'm supposed to do. I expect my guys to do the same thing. You know? Let's find a night where you can do a commitment. You're going to follow me and let's do that. And then when you learn the ropes, then you can have your own deal. And that's what we do. And if they don't want to do that, look, I got zero successful experience at Don't Drink and Go to Meetings. Zero. Zero. There was no good experiences to be had. I don't know how to sponsor that way. Here's the problem. Here's a solution. Here's program to get me to the solution. You want what I got? Let's do what we'll do. Now, I realize that opinions can actually kill an AA. not only the newcomer but the group as well and we hear all kinds of opinions and they don't mean any harm by those opinions they're not harmful in and of themselves but when they become doctrine they have the power to kill and opinions in AA kill and I don't want anybody's opinion I don' ask for my sponsor's opinion I ask for his experience well you don't wanna uncover this gossip I know before you roll with it On the original sheet, we kind of omitted, or I did, the gossip part. And I'm going to cover that right now and we're going to kind of move through it because it kind of ties in with this opinion deal. Trust me, we're gonna have this done in just a few minutes because I know the butt can only take... I mean, the mind can only absorb what the butt didn't take. Somehow they're connected. But if you did get one of these handouts that says gossip, and the dictionary definition is to repeat his gossip, to tell idle or mischievous tales, tattle. Do I realize that it takes two to gossip? One to talk, one to listen. I always wonder about that because, I mean, it's real easy to get drawn into that. But if there's not one listening, then the person may talk to themselves the rest of the night, but there's no gossip going on and that's probably the one with a kind of pat on the back and say, well, they'll be all right later. Maybe they won't. I don't know. That's supposed to be a joke. Yeah, I mean, and this is something we've covered it over and over again that TEP 10 is going to take care of this, and I'm going to get to it in just a minute. Some of you have this little handout. I printed some copies on this. It kind of takes care of it. That's where it should go. And a suggestion at that time if something's going on and not a judgmental way that we're talking down to the individual is perhaps maybe you want to talk to your sponsor about that. There's your solution, you know. And they may not have a sponsor, but that's okay. But that would be my responsibility at that point. It goes back to holding somebody accountable, whether new people or what's going on here. We have so many people here coming to us that we do not know. We don't know their backgrounds. We don'T know their motives for being here. Do I understand how this one seemingly innocent act can harm the individual and the group as well, if continued, has the power to kill? You know, the book says we're sensitive people. Cliff always told me this. The book says it takes some of us a long time to outgrow this. He used to tell me, he said, some of it's never outgrowing. I'm like, boy, I don't like that. But this is true. Bill commented and talked on this by saying that we do talk about one another, But it should always be tempered with love. He also talked about here when I think this is in the 12 and 12 that a seemingly good motive can hide a more perverse motive. Am I seemingly trying to help them and help somebody else understand this whole thing when I'm really trying to build myself up by tearing them down? Guilty. Okay. I am guilty of that one. Dr. Bob said that we should always guard against that errant member, our tongue. And the definition of errant, I think Cindy looked it up, is misbehaving, is that it? Yeah. Something to that effect, yeah. And do I realize that step 10 and tradition 10 are the solutions for this? The principles we set down, you know, and we talked about are going to be guides to progress. is what we're going to do. So none of us come here and got this thing right and sit up here and judge somebody else to talk down. We've got to remember we're all ill people in here trying to get better by applying these things. And we do have responsibility to the newcomer, to members, John's talked about it today, by holding each other accountable. And I'm going to kick it back over to John. If anybody's got any comments on that, how it kind of ties into opinions and the simplicity of this thing. If it ain't in a book, it ain'a A, it's BS and I don't know where that goes. My BS shifter is a book titled Alcoholics Anonymous. Out there, that's fine in the world and whatever else you do, but in here, this is what we do. We good? Yep, and the final one is, I mean, this Is a good question to ask myself, you know. Do I lead by example or do I just talk the talk? And, you Know, that'S something that only I can answer, But hopefully by, you know, relying on my sponsor and applying these steps and these principles that we can walk the walk instead of just talk the talk. And we're going to have just a couple-minute break, and then we'll come back because I know we're running out of time here. That is manifested in that 12th step. That's all right. That last one is manifested In the 12th Step. That's how you get it. Yeah, I was going to tell them I thought we'd be here forever. Yeah. I ask everybody kind of gets themselves situated. I know we've lost quite a few folks, and that's okay. It's run a little longer than we planned on, but we're hopefully going to get this thing wrapped up in about another 30 minutes at the very most. And God, we know we appreciate your patience, and it's still pretty phenomenal how many people are here. We're still waiting on Darry to get up here, so she'll be here in a minute. Waiting, waiting, waiting. Well, we have the cart before the horse, so bear with us just a minute Oh. What we're going to cover next, and Cindy and Dara are going to cover that, and that's this, I guess, kind of code of conduct at some of the wind-up joints we go to. You ready to go? Okay. I'm going to let Cindy have it so you can take the mic and we'll get this thing started. Okay, this is doing 12-step work, the guest code of conduct. Do I realize when conducting a meeting at a wind-up joint that my reason for being there is to carry the message of the big book and that I am only a guest there? We are guests at these places, right? We don't dictate policy. We are a guest here. Do I understand that what they do there is none of my business? Tradition 10, no opinions on outside issues. I'm sure when Dara gets back, we're going to talk about these things a little bit more. But I realize that there's some time constraints here. Three, when conducting these meetings, do I realize that it is not a meeting of AA but rather an opportunity we have been given to present the program of the big book? And four, and then I'll stop with this one. If asked to conduct a meeting in a wind-up joint, do I carry a consistent message as outlined in the big book. Do I compromise our program or do I explain what we do and how we do it and let it go at that? Detox stories, beginner's meeting, 30-day programs, we do the steps and long-term treatment centers, we read the big book. So we'll stop there and talk about these kind of together because these are in wide up to us. You have something to say about that? What? I'm supposed to say something? I do have a couple things to say, though. Did you tell them it was 30 minutes max? So we'll get through. It'll be 30 minutes max that we'll use to finish this up. A wind-up joint. One thing I want to say about a wind- up joint is if someone asks you to sponsor them or if you're 12-stepping them and you spend time with them and everything, and this kind of overlaps the sponsorship, if you do that and then somebody gets up here or you find out they have another sponsor, they found another sponsor and they're going to work the steps with them. God bless them. I mean, that's great. That is it's not personal. It doesn't mean that you haven't done a good job. It just means that that's not the plan. There is a plan and that ain't it. So if we can keep our egos out of this and and God bless him on their way and if they found somebody else to work the steps with, then help as much as you can. But we don't want to take it personally and get our egos involved. And the other thing is that the same thing in the group. Maybe somebody has had me for a sponsor for a long time. Then they decide, oh, I'm not going to do what that witch tells me to do one more time. Listen, God bless. And Godspeed. I understand that. I mean, I wouldn't do what I do if I didn't have to either. Now, maybe today I would because things have kind of changed around. But I can assure you that I'm not going to follow the straight and narrow if I don't have to. So what I'm saying is I think we can help each other a lot by that. I don' t know if the guys have this going on or not. But something that used to work in my experience, what worked was we would call each other and say, so-and-so asked me to sponsor them. I know you've been sponsoring them. Do you have anything that would help? Do you Have Anything to Offer That Would Help Me Help Her? And then that person knows, and they're not all, you know, freaky about it and thinking, oh, I did something wrong or something. They get to know that they're helping. And also sometimes they have valuable advice. So it's just a way, and we don't have to do it that way. I'm just saying that my experience has been that that seemed to work out very well because then nobody was left out and people were included and the best thing was done for the protege or the new person. Okay, and I do have something to read about these wind-up joints. Where is it? I've got it right here. Yeah, okay. One of the things that, is this what I was going to read? Is that what you guys were talking about me reading? This? Well, I'm going to show it to them. This program is discussed at AA group meetings. We have open speaker meetings when we carry the message, and we can tell our story. Sometimes we rotate that. The other thing we do is AA members also can take meetings in the correctional and treatment facilities, so we certainly do that. And AA members may be asked to conduct the informational meetings about AA as a part of ASAP, I'll call safety action. I know that in DWI we have CRIP. We go to CRIPP every now and then. And then we also go to, I guess they're still doing that Southwestern Medical School thing. So we can do those sorts of things. And a lot of times when we go, they will have certain requirements or they have rules. They have house rules. And they can be regarding, I'll just use Salvation Army as an example, okay? Some of us come in here and don't have any idea about how to dress. This is true for me. How to dress, I'm used to going to the bar every Friday and Saturday night. I'm not used to going to AA. Now, I will tell you this. In my bed, I wasn't going to any bar, but that's another story. Anyway, I want to know how to address going to Salvation Army. First of all, we ask whoever hooked us up, are there any requirements? And they call and they find out because Salvation army has that you must have one year sobriety to attend the meetings, have five years of sobriety to sponsor a Salvation Army client, dress respectfully since Salvation army is a Christian facility, not chew gum, eat food or bring drinks into the meeting. This is an opportunity to get outside of ourselves. If you're someplace and you don't see everybody smacking gum, probably don't allow it. They don't have soda pops in there, probably won't allow that. don't allow it, arrive at sufficient 6.30 to 6.45 is what we do that for a 7 o'clock meeting so we can all go upstairs together because there's several of us that go and so we don't want to come in like a herd of cattle and we just go in at the same time or one at a time. It's better to go in as a herd OF cattle rather than go in one at the time. And turn the cell phones off if you must keep them with you and absolutely no texting. And there are other, let's see, the jail requires other things. You have to wear long pants, no flip-flops, certain things. And so you've got to get those. We don't want to go up there and get kicked out on that basis. If we're going to get kicked down, it's because they don't wants us staying true. They want us to compromise the big book. That's okay. but not that other stuff. That other stuff we can do. It's doable. And I think that's all I'm supposed to say. Okay. Let me say something real quick. Clifford has something. If you're going to wind up going, you're not sure about your pride today, be sure to ask your father. Absolutely. Absolutely. Please just ask me if you like. I've got to throw one thing in there, and I'm going to give it back to girls. And Cindy kind of blew through this thing over here. When conducting a meeting, did I realize this was not a meeting by Alcoholics Anonymous? We used the prefix every one of these meetings going to these places. This is not a meet and a bye. And that is huge. We're not there yet. Yeah, you did. Okay. Go ahead. All right. But anyway, I'll let the girls cover it. But this is what I'm trying to say, is this is something that just needs to be clarified when you're within these confines of these folks that are in there so that they do understand the difference between what has taken place at that and the difference zwischen the AA meeting. Sorry. No, it's okay with me. Yeah, you don't want to � I've got cookie in my mouth. You don't Want to try to do a closed AA meeting � Wendy has another question. Many times these places want us to take a position on medication. Yeah. Don't. Just absolutely don't. We do not, we, unless, even if you're a doctor in here, don't give a rat's. We're not their doctor. So no, we have no, absolutely no position on meditation. You can tell your experience with medication to that person, but be prepared. They're going to say so and so said I shouldn't take it or so and so shit said I should take it. And it's just not true. I mean, we don't have a position on medication. We're not doctors. And even if you are, because I do know some, even if you are you're not their doctor. doctor and Lisa was Lisa said something earlier that she said it's so much better thank you she said so much better than I could she was talking about when you are told something by a sponsor when you're new in the in the program and you're just getting your feet on the ground Lisa would you mind saying it I would say it but you said it a hundred times better I remember back when I was first over and Julie would give me direction about something that she'd seen me done or heard that I had done and I really took it personally and I thought it was giving me the trouble and it took me a while to figure out if I really wanted what she had right so I'm just going to shut my out. And it took me a while to figure out, because my ego had died, but I wasn't getting in trouble. She was really guiding me to show me what she had, that my ego was there that I was getting in trouble, so it's time to love me to tell me that path. So if someone says, like, because I do things, and I've made mistakes, obviously, as a sponsor, and I will forever, but that's her role. I'm not in trouble so, and some of my girls will say, well, I don't want to get in trouble. No. Making mistakes is how we learn. Making mistakes is how we learn you're not in trouble and these gals just don't know how lucky they were to be in a room with Cliff when you were one of the only two or one woman in the group and he'd just tell you right then and there you had to grow up in a hurry. Yes, sir? We've been finding our time in that and we'll find other places It just would have been the data presenting the data depending on one form or another, depending on the time we had with those corrections. Yes, sir. Absolutely. I'm sorry I kind of rushed through that at the beginning, but suddenly there became time restraints. And I will try to make this kind of quick. But when we go to these wind-up places, we do say that this is not a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. and the reason for that is because we have drug addicts in there too at most of the wind-up places, right? We have people other than alcoholics there and that we're there to present the big book and it's not a discussion meeting. Most of us, we're all on the same page there and it says we don't compromise our program we explain what we're here to do we're going to bring this message of the big books And a great way to do it is when we are going to detox units, it says that we tell our stories and do a beginner's meeting, like a foundation meeting, that if they're in a 30-day program, we can focus more on the steps because we'll be doing multiple visits to the same people. If they're at a long-term facility, we could do a big book thing like we do at Salvation Army where we come in every week, like at the 24-Hour Club, you know, where you do a big book study. Right? And we've covered the dress, how we dress. Oh, and there's another thing I'd like to point out about going to these places that we're visitors in. We've had complaints that sometimes when people come in, some of the patients feel like we're talking down to them, that we'RE being arrogant. That was brought to my attention just this week by some people. And I realize that patients oftentimes, like all of us, we're sensitive people. And they may have no basis at all for saying what they're saying. But they may be able to say what they want to say. They may have a basis for saying what they are saying. We need to not be coming from ego when we are doing this. We are here because we are broken down drunks just like anyone else. And we are here to bring this message of hope to these people. I love how the big book puts it that we are not there we have a real answer no attitude of holier than thou, a sincere desire to be helpful, no axes to grind, no people to please, no lectures to be endured. We're not there to lecture anyone on anything. And sometimes I think some of the patients get the feeling that some of us are doing that, and that's kind of a reputation that we've gotten in some of these places. So we don't want to do that. We have to have constant thoughts of others and how we can best meet their needs and ask God in our morning meditation before we go there, you know, how we can best help these people. So it's just something to remember when we go into these treatment centers that we're guests there. We're not experts. We've got a question over here. Can I have the comment? Yes. I think it's helpful. Can we have a back seat? Stand up. I think it's important to understand that, or at least put ourselves in the place of the people that are working there. And what would I be cool with these people doing if I worked here? And one thing we've got to keep, and I've worked in these places, I know they hate opening the doors all the time. They hate opening the doors seven times under 45 seconds span of time. So take some away from what they're doing. Be courteous to them. Come as a group. don't put extra demands on them. They love having us there getting the patients out of their hair but they notice it when they're doing more work than they are so be real careful and frequently we've got to listen to the places that we go and as people who are being responsible for that place or have secured that place don't be inviting a whole bunch of people without kind of letting that person know because some of these places are not found with 30 people showing up. They make them uncomfortable, that's a bunch more bodies they've got to be responsible, and it just doesn't work there. So put yourself in their place and think about how you feel if you work there, you know, in an act of authority. Thank you, and that's absolutely, that is so valid and so important. We've got to adjust of where we're going that's we want to be a maximum benefit and that means that we have to listen we have do what they say and let's say that we find somebody who's not doing it what are we gonna do we gossip about them and talk about a little no of course not what you do is you go to your sponsor and talk about it and let one of you go the sponsor of the other person who may be having a problem if someone is dressed inappropriately or comes in late and it causes a disruption they really shouldn't go up at all you know they can come back next time but there's no sense in pushing the envelope and denying ten people a place to go and maybe somebody out there which they do they come around hearing what the book has to say. Go ahead. Okay, okay I think we've done six. Okay now we're looking at, have we covered treatment facilities pretty thoroughly? Feel good about that? Okay well we're looking at number, well I'll read number six. Do I cover tradition three, the only requirement is the desire to stop drinking in AA so that I do not mislead anyone and explain the difference between membership and attending open meetings. That's a great thing to make people aware of, you know, the different, the tradition three, that AA is for the alcoholic, CA is for the cocaine addict, et cetera. That we explain that to people because, you know, people in treatment centers, they think AA is for everybody. They've been told that. So that's a great opportunity for us to explain that. Can I say something? Yes, go. I was just at the jail the other day and there was a girl in there who had been in AA for a really long time and she had been sober for X amount of time. Well, one reason is because she had be there in the jail. But also, she was just hell-bent on busting that tradition. She didn't understand it. She says, yes, but the exception needs to be made. And you run into people like that who want to argue with you. And I just, you know, you can tell them that you didn't, that you can't compromise what the book says and what the traditions say, that you understand what she's saying, but that that's not applicable. And you don't have to compromise what is right there for AA. Do you get it? Okay. When asked to speak at another AA group, do I realize that I'm only a small part of a great whole and that when telling my story, I'm telling it in a general way what I used to be like, what happened, and what I'm like now. And that's attraction rather than promotion. Yeah, we just have our experience and we get up there and we tell them about it and how we got here and what's going on for us today. And, you know, sometimes you'll have somebody come up. I know Byers is an expert at this, and he can teach us a lot about this stuff. And Clifford, too, a lot of experts in here about our helpful people in here who can help us when people come up to argue with us after we've told our story or told the steps as we did them and interjected our story. And mostly you can get away with saying you could be right. Mostly you can Get Away With That. So didn't you have something you wanted to add about that desire to stop drinking or something, Ed? No. The only thing I got to say to that is simply is helping the new person who probably is already confused about this to have a better understanding. I'm not necessarily we're going to change their minds, but it is part of my job to claim membership and hear you need to be an alcoholic. You can have other problems, and God, if we all raise our hands here, we've all got more than one problem. But we don't all have the same identical set of problems. So therefore, membership is a desire to stop drinking, period. There is no andas. That separates us. It creates disunity, and we cannot be everything to everybody. Right. And that's why we have those the step meetings are big book studies. John, did you have anything to add? Well, I was just going to say, you know, it's speaking at these human centers or or a group. You know, I mean, no group has ever come up to me after a talk and said, God, thanks for sharing. We're going to change everything. You know. It's my job to tell my story. I can, you know, what I said in 2000 to what I say now is generally the same thing, but it's in a whole lot better way, you Know. So I don't get jammed up too much, but it is not my job to try to correct them or fix them. It is just, hey, I lay out my story, lay out the program as it affected my life. And it is the same with, I am just going to say one other thing and then I will just be done. It is the samething with all this stuff. Man, we have an opportunity, it is an honor and a privilege to go to a group or to a wind-up facility And we need to treat it that way. And if you've never seen Myers or Ed or some of these old-timers do what they do, we need try to pattern our talks like the way they do theirs. We get up from the big book and explain the program depending on how, you know, if they're there for two weeks or a month or whatever. But we get up and go by the book. And if I have a nice little story that I can segue into, great. But I want to keep it as less off me and more on the program and leave it with them. Give them the facts and treat them with respect just the way that they treated me. And in that way, we don't get into all this condescending stuff and we're not in there saying that this sucks and that and you're going to die and all this crazy stuff that we can say. Hey, let's just go from the book. And when I haven't, just like they taught me, they didn't let me talk. It's not my birthright just because I come to primary purpose and get a desire chip that I get to talk everywhere. It's not my birthright. I had to learn the ropes. And just the same thing with my other guys. They had to follow me around. They were at 24-hour club. They were homeward bound. They learned to talk, and when they were there and they showed a commitment, they were doing what they do, guess what? We gave them a page or two to read. Get up, say your sobriety date, say you're name, read the two pages, and sit down. Right? Sounds harsh, but they learned. And the next thing you know, they've got their own wind-up joints, and now they're teaching guys to do it. And that's what we found is most effective, and that's what we're trying to carry on. It's not about my ego. It's about, hey, how do we effectively present the program of alcoholics to those who are dying just like us? All right. We're kind of pushing the envelope on time here, so we'll see if we can get it. You have no idea how fast I can talk. When doing this, Dad said another group. Do I speak with an attitude or with my ego of elitism, or do I present the program as it is outlined in the big book, sharing only my experiences as they relate to the steps? And that's just what John said. He answered the question and then we read it. Okay, and the next thing is, have I come to realize that each opportunity given and taken ensures my immunity against the first drink? We all get that, right? Surely to God we get that. I mean, how else can you say that? Okay, has anybody out there have a question or anything to say or add or take away? Whatever. Have I screwed it up yet, Michael? Am I truly responsible? That is to say, one, do I continually try to apply step 10, 11, and 12 in my life? If you're doing that, you're helping people. And you're not, you don't have time for anything else. You're pretty full. Do I try to adhere to the 12 traditions? Do I search and look for those alcoholics who are still suffering and work with them if they are willing to make the effort? And that is a big if. And 11, do I realize that by doing these things, I can rest assured that AA will be here for those yet to come so long as God decides to use us. And you may think that you may not have kids or grandkids that are going to use this, but let me assure you, you may. Some of you thought you'd wind up here. Yeah, really. High aspirations. We love you. Some of us kind of knew, but some of us knew it was a big surprise. So anyway, we do want to keep this thing. You know, maybe they are the kind of drunks that we are in this room. I mean, you know, studying this book, adhering to these traditions, obviously it isn't for everybody that calls themselves Alcoholics Anonymous. But if you wound up here, more than likely you belong here, and we might as well just ask for our will to be aligned and make it as painless as possible. Clifford. Cindy said you had something to say. Okay, Bill's story is simple but not easy. A price had to be paid. It meant the destruction of self-centeredness. That's why we abandon ourselves utterly. It's going to be a continuous process, this destruction of self-centeredness. My friend had emphasized the absolute necessity of demonstrating these principles in all of my affairs, particularly was it imperative to work with others as he had worked with me faith without works is dead he said and how appallingly true for the alcoholic for if an alcoholic failed to perfect and enlarge his spiritual life through the work and self sacrifice through work and so sacrificed for others he could not survive the certain trials and low spots ahead if we want to die sober we have to live by the steps and the traditions in the group and the concepts which I sure need to learn more about anybody have any questions did we hit on everything we went so quickly over to carry in this tip to the doing the 12 step step no is it good yeah time and dress and keep it within your sponsor we kind of got it I think it's pretty nail there all right I guess we'll close in the � oh, wait. Hold on. Brad, you bashful got something to last? Cliff would ask this question when I'm up here. Has this been a waste of time? That's an important question to ask. One other thing we used to hand out here. If you're going to a wind-up joint and you're hitting some of these situations that Wendy brought up here, AA has a tremendous pamphlet out. We used to carry these things around on us, what AA is all about. You don't have to go and explain it to the counselor or the therapist or anything. They just hand them one of these, ask them to read it. It tells them exactly what we do and what we don't do and let it go at that. It's that simple. So I know most of you don't even know this thing exists because we have gotten complacent in that area of passing this thing on. So it's available to you. And with that, we'll just close this thing down. Thanks, everybody. Thank you for listening.