Self-Seeking and the Arrogant Tough Guy Act – Gisli K.

So welcome everyone to the 15th International Berlin AA Convention, first time on Zoom, for our very last meeting tonight. My name is Karen and I'm an alcoholic. Before we start, let's say the serenity prayer in the we form and if you like you can unmute to your microphones, please. God, God, accept the things we cannot change, the courage to change the things we can, and the wisdom to know the difference. We've cut already, but I'll just repeat the readings and the speaker will be translated simultaneously German and to get the German translating, just click interpret in your Zoom window. Auf Deutsch nochmal kurz, um zur deutschen Übersetzung zu lernen, klicke einfach auf Dolmetschen in deinem Zoom-Fenster und wähle Deutsch. I have asked Julie to read the preamble. just a minute guys we're getting that up on the screen sure Thank you very much. I have a problem right now. One moment. The host. Thank you so much. The preamble of Alcoholics Anonymous. Alcoholics anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for AA membership. We are self-supporting through our own contributions. AA is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization, or institution. It does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor proposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and to help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety Thank you Julie This is a speaker meeting and our speaker will speak on the topic practical experience The show will be recorded and available on our website www.berlin aaconvention.com I guess someone will post that in the chat as well and on our website, www.recoverytapers.com. Then who would like to read the text Gisli will share on? Is there anyone who's up for reading? Hello, my name is Gisla. I would like you to read. Thank you. from the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous chapter 4 page 52 but in most fields our generation has witnessed complete liberation of our thinking show any longshore a Sunday supplement describing a proposal to explore the moon by means of a rocket and he will say, I bet they do it. Maybe not so long either. Is not our age characterized by the ease with which we discard old ideas for new? By the complete readiness with whichwe throw away the theory of gadget which does not work for something new which does i'm sorry um we had to ask ourselves why we shouldn't apply to our human problems this same readiness to change our point of view we were having trouble with personal relationships we couldn't control our emotional natures we were a prey for misery and depression we couldn't make make a living we had a feeling of uselessness we were full of fear we were unhappy we couldn t seem to be of real help to other people was not it's not a basic solution of these bedevilments More important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was. When we saw others solve their problems by a simple reliance upon the spirit of the universe, we had to stop doubting the power of God. We had to start doubtingthe power of god. Our ideas did not work, but the God idea did. Thank you. Thank you, Ira. And now it's time to introduce our speaker, Gisli from Iceland. Help me to give a warm welcome to him. And yeah, he'll speak on practical experience. Thank you. Can you hear me okay? Let me know if there's a sound interference in the background or if you have any problems. My name is Gisle. I'm an alcoholic. I've been sober since January 12th, 1999. And I have a home group which is in Akureyri, which is in the northern part of Iceland. It's a town of about 18,000 people. And I have a sponsor. He got sober one day before I was born, which is good, I guess. And so Yeah, so that's kind of my short introduction. I have a sponsored home group and I'm very actively involved with the program and have been for a long time. So, for some reason throughout these years, it's almost 22 years now, I have not stopped doing the program really. And this is always a little complicated to talk about because people listen and think, well, oh, he's Mr. Perfect. He's never, never stopped doing the program. Oh, let me take a look at his life and see really if he's so perfect. And of course, I'm not. And it's only in this fellowship that you actually have to mention you're perfect. You're not perfect. Everybody else will assume you're not. but it's kind of cute that in this fellowship of very imperfect people we always have to stress that that we are not imperfect but having a heartbeat implies that we are not perfect so what I'm saying is not that it's not that I haven't made any mistakes or that I always trust God 100% or some stuff like that that's not true at all what I am saying is I've been working this program I have had the home group a sponsor and I've been doing my best, let's say, to work these steps for this time. And I maybe am a type of alcoholic, I don't know, or a type of person that is just so fucked up that I can't imagine life without the program I'm working on. I feel I'm very crazy and crazy enough with all the stuff I'm doing. I don't want to imagine how I am without all the AA work I'm doing so I've never really tried to take a break from meetings I've ever tried to take a break from God my relationship with AA is dynamic sometimes I don's want to be here sometimes I do but and my relationship with God is very dynamic as well sometimes God is just you know two dudes I can't lift a stone three of us can lift astone that's my God sometimes sometimes I'm very lofty with spirituality and all these kinds of things it just matters it's almost 22 years now that I've been sober over the course of these years I've had very different periods I've done 20 minutes of meditation twice a day for 6-7 years every day and then I really felt people who weren't doing that weren't really sober you know were kind of just on the uh yeah just on The Periphery of life really not really doing it and then my I had a couple of kids and everything changed you know and now I have three children and so my program has adapted to that I have a really busy life and which means that I don't really, I'm not the right person to talk about not having time to do AA, I guess. I have what I think, you know, because we're going to talk about practical experience, we're gonna talk a little bit about the developments that we read from here, but I think as a kind of an introductory note, I think what I can share, which is rather specific, is how to do the program consistently for over 20 years because I've done that and I know how to be that. Some people know how to do that, but definitely some people don't know how to do it. Now, one of these things that I've done from very early on in sobriety sorry about that now one of the things I've done from early on in sobriety is very just brutal prioritizing which means that I've looked at AA now for a long time like like a dialysis I don't know if you know what a dialysis machine is people that have renal failure need to attend dialysis about two, three times a week. If they don't, they die. And I've looked at the AA as dialysis for a long time now. And so you see, you're listening to a very fanatic person here. So if you want to do a little lighter version of AA, you can certainly do that. I'm not judging that. That might be a good fit for you. but I can't really share about that kind of AA because I don't have experience on it. I'm certainly not judging it, I'm not saying it's the wrong thing to do but that's not the kind of AAA that I've been doing. I've be doing fairly serious AA for a long time and what I mean about that is I prioritize it like I said like I would a dialysis machine. It means I will not move to a place where there is no dialysis machine or the dialysis machine is broken and only works every three weeks. I will not put myself in a position where I cannot make it to my dialysis machine. I really never say, oh, I have to go to the movies now so I can't make it to the dialysus machine. It doesn't mean I don't miss meetings. I miss meetings all the time but it's under circumstances where i'm really just doing my best and can't really avoid it um and i prioritize aaa really uh kind of in my mind cognitively i uh prioritize it over and that also starts the whole thing like the whole perfection thing is like oh priority like like i do not have a higher power that puts me in a position where i have to either attend an AA meeting or set my oldest son on fire. I haven't had to do that ever, you know, that's not a choice that comes up for me. What I mean by this though is that I have three children and I have a job that I think is important like some of you have jobs that you think are important and all those things but it doesn't change the fact that AA comes first and I'm the kind of alcoholic so when I drink, I go into blackouts. I get very psychotic and crazy. I have a very drastic personality change and do all kinds of things I would under normal circumstances never do. Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde kind of an alcoholic and so because I'm like that really there is no choice for me. I just have to prioritize AA over everything and this is very simple in the beginning where you don't have anything going on right at least for me it was very simple i had i mean there was nothing going on you know and so i had no job and i didn't have a school and i was on probation and things like that and so I could prioritize hey but now i have a few jobs very important you know In my mind, I have a wife and I have three children and I've all kinds of things going on, all kinds stuff that comes when you attend these rooms and do your best. Things tend to get better over time and they have for me. And because I get all these things, these are the things that are trying to pull me away from Alcoholics Anonymous. and they are very holy these things are holy they're sanctimonious and what I mean by that it's very hard for somebody to say oh I have to my son's boy scout thing is tonight so I can't do the meetings anymore or something and then you can go into a whole speech with tears in your eyes if you want to about how you need to take care of your children but what I'm saying is I tend not to put myself in positions where I have to choose between the two. Those positions are usually of my making. I've really been able to just have the kids and really, you know, do my best to be an okay dad, have this job I have and jobs, do the best I can with them. And I just don't put myself on a position where I had to make some sort of a dramatic choice between Alcoholics Anonymous and my job or my children. and that's what I mean when I put AA first. I prioritize that into everything, and I can name an example, for example, because sometimes we get stuck in false dichotomies. We think if you do X, you can't do Y. Often you can do both X and Y. Anyway, so in the beginning of my career, I had to do some shift work for five, six years maybe, and my home group met on Monday evenings, and sometimes I was put on shifts on Monday evenings. And one solution here is to say I can't do my home group anymore and that's fine, I can identify with another group or something. But I can say, oh, I have this important job, I have to do the shifts on Monday evening sometimes so I can. But for me, the solution was fairly simple. I just said to my supervisor, I can not work Monday nights. Sorry. And it turns out Monday nights aren't super popular with other people So it was very easy for me just to have Monday nights off and attend my home group all the time, for example. So usually these things are fairly simple. And for me, it's a red flag for my recovery once I start putting myself in positions where I'm forced to choose between AA and something else that is important. Often I am setting up a false dichotomy. I am saying, oh, I need to do this and I can't do this. But the truth is, usually I can do both things. Usually I can figure out where there is a will, there is away often with these things in my experience. Sometimes I've been extremely crazy, crazy busy. Hardly time to sleep sometimes. I have still done AA. I still have a home group. I still work with guys. I will throw away other things before I throw that away even when life puts me in situations usually it's very temporary they're not very sustainable these situations but it does happen and usually I will still prioritize AA over things even if there's a severe illness in my family it doesn't mean I will go from like my mom passed away a few years ago So it doesn't mean I walk away from her deathbed and say, oh, I have to do A now. It's more that I'm in touch still and I find time in between when it's appropriate and things like that. So I'm not talking about a rigid crowbar kind of an approach here, if you know what I mean. I'm going to take the hammer to this thing or a sledgehammer. I'm thinking more soft hands, gently leaning into it and in my experience usually the universe opens up and I'm able to attend to what I need to attend to. Now this is a very simple concept with prioritizing and it sounds very simple to those who are doing it but once life and this program and higher power as we perceive it starts giving you gifts those gifts usually start taking us away from Alcoholics Anonymous. And so that's the strange contradiction with long-term recovery is that, and if you work the program, good things happen, certainly, but the good things will try to take you away from what gave you the good thing in the first place. It's a very kind of a strange contradiction. and so you know that's been one of the things that I've been doing and that practical experience has shown me really works it's just very brutal prioritizing soft but brutal if you know what I mean I do not give myself a discount and if I think about it if I have to choose between things and AA usually I would think I would probably choose AA because if I'm drunk and I don't know anything else that works for my alcoholism just speaking for me because if I am drunk I am going to lose everything either way I will start going to blackouts becoming very psychotic doing all kinds of crazy things and my career and all my family the things I have accumulated will mean nothing once I start drinking again very simplistic, but this has been working for me for a long time. And it doesn't mean that everything I do is AA something, I do a lot of other things, but AA is the foundation for it all and this as I said looking at it as a dialysis machine has worked really well. So I don't really skip my home group unless I have traveled or there's a few really. Those are the two reasons. And if I do have to skip my home group, I will attend another meeting as a principle. It's not because after one week of no meeting, I'll go completely crazy. It's like that at all. I do a lot of terms that would sponsor a lot. It's more just a principle of the thing. For a person like me who has a very busy schedule, very busy calendar, it's like it fills up so quickly, my schedule. And so I have to keep the slot very, I have to be very hard with keeping that AA slot open, especially for meetings because sponsorship is often more easy for me. I can have them come to my house at 10pm when the kids are asleep, things like that. But the fellowship, the meeting once a week, that's often more tricky with scheduling and so I have been very hard with that. I have a buddy in the program that says if attending your home group isn't a little bit of a hassle for you, you probably should find another home group. And I kind of like that thinking. I like the thinking that AA should be a little bit of problem for us. We should sometimes have to sacrifice things. We go to work in our garden and instead we're sitting with a newcomer, things like that. These things happen all the time to me. I plan to do something and I find myself talking on the phone to a newcomer or doing something else instead that wasn't really a part of the plan but seems to work really well. So, that's kind of the core thing for me now is really just prioritizing AA. It's very simple But if I don't do that, if I start giving myself discounts, that would be my first step away from Alcoholics Anonymous. I am a real alcoholic. There's a lot at stake for me, so I do not take any chances with this illness. It is not really an adversary you mess around with in my experience. I've been to enough human rooms. I just attended one a short while ago, a couple of weeks ago, the last one. There's always every summer, every year there's someone. So that keeps, for me, that keeps this very serious for me because if I don't do this, I truly believe I will lose everything and really I have no reason to suspect otherwise. It seems to be more difficult than anything when you have a lot of time a new relapse. I have some buddies that are going through that and have been through that, and they are often facing very, very difficult journeys. Now, if I just speak very plainly, the first thing I think was most important for me from a practical standpoint was just doing a lot of Thurstad work. Now, it's very hard in the beginning to start doing that you feel you're not good enough you're Not Worthy nobody wants to listen to me this tall pretty guy next to me is so much smarter he knows how to say the right things and all these things but really what I have to do is be courageous in the beginning the first few years of my and try to give my best try to do what I could do best and trust that would be enough. Over time I learned that we need all versions of the Big Book in we need all versions of The Big Book in our fellowship because there are people out there that need to hear my version and there are people outside that will need to read your version There are people out there, because of who I am, how I speak how I look, whatever But even how long I've been sober, they will never be able to listen to me. They'll never hear what I have to say. Even if I am saying the right things and they sound good to all the other staff people out there, the people who've been in the program, they were never able to be able to listen too. There are people out that will need to hear my version of the big picture. And I show up for meetings. I show off for the fellowship. I speak at these kinds of things for those people I don't know how many people are listening some of you are already starting to think I do not like this guy but while there might be others that I am connecting with some of them and so if we have enough versions of the Bigfoot out there the more chances the newcomer has to survive and get better and stay sober do the things he needs to do or she needs to stay sober so we need your version of the big book we need you story how you look what your background is how you dress, all these things whatever they look like now we need it because there are people out there like you yes I'm sorry, you are unique but you are probably not special so there are probably people that are similar and need to be listening to your version of the big book. Now, I can tell you from my experience that there were guys in the fellowship when I came in in a men's meeting back in 1999 that I really detested. I thought they were complete assholes. And I know this will be a surprise for you, but I used to be a pretty arrogant person and so there was just a lot of people who liked, you know they were in these tight white shirts and listened to techno music and I was like I was a literally minded person who liked to drink alcohol and just occasionally used other things as an accident and so I really looked down a lot of people in AA and there were a couple of dudes that for my fragile ego at the time, it's still fragile just not as much, that had the right credentials so I could listen to them. I knew that these guys were cooler than me and still they were doing AA and so i could listen to them. And if they wouldn't have been there, I do not know if I would be alive today. I needed those versions of the big book. Now, I found out that the guys I looked down on and thought were real assholes back then, they had a great program. I learned a lot from them later on. But in the beginning, I just wasn't able to listen to them, I was at that place. And so it's so important for you and for us in the beginning to show up and kind of just allow ourselves to be this version even though we feel we're not very eloquent or smart and all these things. we are there and get into the club step slowly and surely by sharing at meetings either in the meeting or before or after the meeting it doesn't matter whether we share before, after or during the meeting all is best of course but if you don't like sharing in the meetings that's fine we can share face to face with a newcomer in the beginning or the end of the meeting just means you have to show up a little early leave a little late, that's Fine um and uh you know for me it was a a matter of seeking out the people that looked like i felt really really so i sought those dudes out and all i did in the beginning and this was enough for me and enough for them i was just friendly i disarmed them with kindness is what i did in the beginning and I had a problem being friendly with people because I thought all people were idiots really and so for me it was a big deal trying to learn that but at the same time I had to come to this place where I was really just trying to be friendly trying to greet people trying to get over myself a little bit in the beginning and saying you know welcome my name is Kislev welcome to our meeting how's it going doing a small talk and basically just making guys feel welcome you know because a part of who I was uh really was for me was a lot of this uh trying to be some tough guy that I really wasn't and people who know me know that's kind of laughable but I was trying to get the tough guy but that was sometimes the look I was going for and, you know, having the serious look on my face like somebody had set my dog on fire yesterday or something, you know. And so I had to get over myself with that and come to this realization that I need to really, you now, just be friendly, welcome, you kno. give my number out all these things that matter to create a deal so and so that was one of these basic things I did is just getting into that now doing these things I got into sponsorship and I've been doing a lot of that for the last 20 years or so one of the things that I've learned is this formula of just going having a home group meeting newcomers trying to get meetings both in institutions and through my home group it seems to work wherever I am so I have moved you know I was in Iceland Reykjavik for the first seven eight years of my sobriety then I spent another six seven years in no eight years in the United States Minneapolis where I did exactly the same thing and then for the last six years I've been an alcoholic and I'm doing exactly the same thing. And my program really hasn't changed. My relationship with God has changed, my understanding has changed. But how I spent my time in Alcoholics Anonymous really hasn'T changed that much. I just keep doing these things. I have a home group. I attend as many meetings as I need to, but always the home group. Usually I have an institution I go to, like a jail or hospital or something and then i just sponsor and when i sponsor less i do more meetings when i sponsor more i do less meetings it's fairly it's a simple formula for me but i always keep fairly fairly busy usually meeting a couple of newcomers a week a home group phone calls and these kinds of things so uh that's the 12-step part of it that was the most i think the most tricky thing to do and I think it's really probably the best kept secret in Alcoholics Anonymous. And they say it very clearly in the beginning of chapter seven, that practical experience shows that nothing really works as well as a rigorous 12-step work. And that's really been my experience. Of the guys I've sponsored, the dudes that get the thing about the 12-step that that's the foundation stone of the recovery. They rarely, rarely those guys relapse. Once you understand kind of to the core or at least once I understood to the corner of my being that the 12 step was kind of the foundation of all this the foundation stone of my recovery, I felt AA has been easier. It's easier to prioritize my time and understand better how it works somehow because I understand that the 12-step, there's magic in it. And I don't understand how it looks. I just know the 12 steps works. And as I said, it's rare for me to see people that really get this relapse. it doesn't happen that often it certainly can happen I'm not saying you are immune to it once you get it but it's hard to know for me I would have to make an effort to stop doing 12 step work now of course there are ways to get drunk doing a lot of 12 step working we'll talk about that maybe a little bit later but usually doing a lot of 12-step work for a long time usually is pretty good on average it's pretty good so that's kind of the first one of these basic things that I have to share about practical experience and how to continue this is just doing a lots of 12 step work doesn't have to be fancy doesn't has to work for other people just has to look for you And it just has to be, at least for me, that I can do my best. For example, if my sponsors call me, I always call them back. Things like that. I don't have to answer the phone. I can't answer every time somebody calls. But I can try my best to give them a call back as soon as I can. Things like this. Now, a second thing that, you know, all of the steps are important and all these things, but again, talking from practical experience, once I get this idea or once my sponsor, it's the same as my sponsors, my buddies in AA, get this ideia about the 12-step, that's a very good start, but other shit happens in sobriety and life that the 12-step is not going to fix. And that's the caveat I made earlier, that it's not enough. It's a good start but it's not enough, at least in my experience. There's going to be other stuff that comes up. Mental illness that's going have to be addressed by professionals. Physical illness that's going have be addressed as well. All kinds of other things difficult people in our lives, accidents, illness in the family, just all kinds of things. And so for me that has to do with having some sort of an understanding with God, trying to figure out what I think is my higher power's will, sitting with that trying to give that space but really most importantly and most practically it's about doing 10 steps and so even after I'm through the first ringer the first kind of big hurdle really is the 12 step getting there in long term recovery even after I get that the next one at least for me and for many of my friends and sponsors is starting to do a proper 10-step. Having somebody I trust with myself completely, not having any secrets really. And I can say this honestly looking at you guys here that I do not have any secrets that I'm aware of. They are then unconscious and how can I know what I can't know? I can. Somebody has to tell me so. at least as far as I know I do not have any secrets I have secrets from people and I certainly have secrets from you good people which is probably a smart thing to do but I do have men in my life people in my live that I do trust with certain things I also I do psychotherapy and although not strictly of course a part of the steps they do integrate into my time step because some things I trust to a psychotherapist which the big book also recommends and so if we have things we don't trust other AI people we certainly can use professionals that we can just sue if they talk about what we tell us we tell them if you don't test anybody else or we think other people are not maybe prepared it's some heavy shit we can use professional and I've certainly done that too the bigbook recommends it repeatedly three or four times in the text it's strongly recommended so I'm just going to echo what the people say here and say it's a smart thing to do if there's horrific trauma, people are dealing things like that maybe that can be an option anyway but on average though I have some guys friends, my sponsor and a few 10 step buddies that are involved in my life some of them in some part of it, some of it some of the men all over but uh that is really what has kept me going i think for the last probably five six years because uh working a lot of times that it really works uh but over time though it does the same thing and so because i maybe because i'm an addict i always need a bigger dose of something I don't know it keeps me sober and it keeps me grateful and in many ways in fairly good shape it still becomes it still becomes sometimes ego and I start to want to not to share with you guys my vulnerabilities I do not want to share with my buddies my sponsor my tan star buddies and not or even just people at the meeting although that is sometimes you know it depends on the context whether that's appropriate or not but uh but at least to my 10-step buddies i always just want to call them and declare victory i want to called them and say uh yes i figured this out i was dealing with this and now i've figured it out and i've uh i declare victory you know and so that's that's what i want to do all the time i just want to declare victory over my problems i do not want to call them when i have this sound in my voice here which makes me feel like i'm a seven year old little boy and i feel uh afraid and i see like a coward and i don't know what to do with myself and disgusted by myself then i do not want to call you know then i want to wait two weeks figure it out by myself and then let them know afterwards right oh yes i figured this out now yes i got this like some sort of a western cowboy now in my experience this is really a good i've done this many times believe me it's really what i really want to do most with my problems is just figure them out more by myself and then declare victory over them. And I don't want to get the 70-year-old boy here in my throat. It's very painful for me. It's a very vulnerable and all those things. But what I learned is I can save myself about five, six weeks sometimes of trouble if I just call when I have that going on. And that's been one of the hardest lessons for the last few years for me is staying in touch and finding people I trust of course but really sharing the vulnerabilities when they are active, not once I've beaten them does that make sense to people? okay, you understand it's not waiting until I figure it out seeking out God of course I'm not talking about running every time somebody else, but really seeking out higher power as I understand it. But mostly just taking myself to a place where I trust other people with my vulnerabilities when I feel weak, when I feel vulnerable and that's very hard to do. Maybe there's maybe some foreign audience here and maybe Maybe the masculinity issue isn't as bad with you guys as for us Icelandic Vikings. But I do suspect, at least after my work in the United States, that it's similar in many countries. We are many of us dealing with this. And I think likely for Winslow, it's going to be an issue also. that's kind of this second thing that I really feel is important oops can you hear me okay so anyway from my experience what I've been doing now for a long time it's just the same thing when it comes to AA just a lot of showing up and that's one of these things I can really do is show up it's really one of my strengths when I think about it, it's just showing up to stuff you don't need to really be brilliant to succeed in a college or an armwrestling, you really just need to show up and I've been doing that now for almost 32 years and it's been working but you know the big thing for me in the first part was showing up being a part of the group giving myself this purpose of trying to be helpful to the newcomer even though I hated humanity as really a whole I really didn't hate it I just kind of detested it I really needed to start doing that got into the 12-step work kind of figured out that that was the foundation stone like they say in the big book repeatedly but even after that keeping on showing up and building some sort of community a 10-step community not only with my sponsor but with some men that I trust people, that I trust Russell and too in that fellowship of mine that I really just trust with who I am and my vulnerabilities and that has saved me a lot of time and I suspect that it will save my life in the long run, is trusting other people with my vulnerabilities, of course in an appropriate way, in an inappropriate time all those things but I cannot stress enough how important it is to build up a strong 10-step fellowship and now of course the 11th step is in between there and it integrates into both of those things this dance that I have with my higher power comes and goes but it's always present because I do practice 10 and 12. And I practice 11 as well, I sit down and all those things, I tell them to tend to practice but if I do not use these kind of very human interactions both since that time I start running into problems and I run into them fast. Now do I have more time or am I done? Does somebody know? You're in time just perfectly, it's quarter two so So we leave it with this. Catalina? Yeah, okay. So Gisli, thank you so much for your comprehensive, inspiring, encouraging share. Thank you very, very much.