Sarah A. at the 2025 Wilson House Big Book Workshop Retreat – with Sarah M. and Finn A – 2025

So before we start, let's have a moment of silence followed by the serenity prayer, and then we'll get grounded in the 12th step. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Thy will not be done. Awesome. And to get grounded in the big book, I think we're going to have Jeffrey kick us off and read a passage from Step 12. Hi, Jeff Alcoholic. Step 12 passage, page 89. Practical experience shows that nothing will much ensure immunity from drinking as intensive work. With other alcoholics, it works when other activities fail. This is our 12th suggestion. Carry this message to other alcoholics. You can help when no one else can. You can secure their confidence when others fail. Remember, they are very ill. Life will take on a new meaning to watch people recover, to see them help others, to watch loneliness vanish, to see fellowship grow up about you, to have a host of friends. This is an experience you must not miss. We know you will. You will not want to miss it. Frequent contact with newcomers and with each other is the bright spot of our lives. Thank you. Thanks. Are you telling me to start? I don't know. Yeah. Welcome back. I thought everybody would leave for the, you know, because of the snow, because that's what I would have done. I would have been like, snowstorm, I got to go. Anyway, I, uh, obviously, I'm going to be here for a while. I was thinking a lot this morning about my experience with, um, you know, having had a spiritual awakening and carrying the message to other alcoholics that, um, you know, I, like I said before, I got into, um, this big book step study. And I just want to make sure everybody knows that I don't believe that's the only way. I've had plenty of friends that are doing the steps out of the big book at the coffee table different ways. And, you know, they've had very similar experiences. That's just my experience. So I will continuously. I'm going to speak about that because I can't speak to well other than doing the 12 steps, uh, in N.A., which I shared that I did because I was talking about it. Um, yeah, I, uh, I was 11 months sober when I had started my amends and I was practicing 10, 11 and 12. And my sponsor said, you have a message to carry so you have to start raising your hand every time in a meeting it says, is there anybody willing to sponsor? Yes. And I was like, nobody wants someone who doesn't even have a year to like sponsor them. And I raised my hand the first day someone asked me to take them through the steps and I was like, oh God. Well, I just want to share a little bit about that. The other thing I was thinking is how much my, the way I sponsor and the way I carry the message has changed. I thought when I first came in that the only way you carried the message was by taking someone through the steps. And I was very much when I came out of big book. It was like a lifesaver for me. So I was running around big books the only way, you know, like people would have like 40 years and I'd be like, you have no idea. You haven't, you know, like the 12 and 12, that's like the dumbest book. And I was so, I was a lunatic, you know, I developed a relationship with a higher power and then I became it immediately. And, um, you know, I, I remember being at a morning meeting and every day at this morning meeting where all these people who hadn't done business, people who hadn't done big book kept me sober all year, like sat with me every day that I was going through stuff, like got me back into doing things I love doing. Like they basically carried me and I stayed sober and they didn't do the big book. They helped me, you know, but every morning I would go on about the steps, the steps, you got to do the steps. And, um, some woman came up to me and said, uh, she just started yelling at me about, you need to stop mouthing off about the steps, blah, blah, blah. So I was like, oh, I'm sorry. Oh, I'm going to call my sponsor. So I called my sponsor up who happened to be in the meeting and I was like, can you believe this lady? And my sponsor said, yeah, get off the pedestal. Nobody wants what you have and hung up on me. I was like, I would say about 99.9% of the phone calls to my sponsor about how I'd done this program right. We're not like, I mean, I got hung up on basically. Um, you know, I've been asked, when did you become the CEO? When was there a president? When was it? You know, cause I just know that my way was the right way. And I literally, that's how I operated. So I get this sponsee who really has no interest in doing the work. So I'm basically doing it for them. Like, come on, I'll help you write. I'll, you know, I'm like pushing everything. And I would say the most successful sponsoring anyone can have is when every sentence out of your mouth as a sponsor starts with you should not. Right. But I was like, I wasn't even aware of the other person that I was working with. You know, I, I wouldn't listen to them. You know, it says like we, we can, um, connect in, just listen to them in the, you know, in the 12th step and everything. And I don't, I didn't listen. I told the person what to do. I said, I mean, it was like everything I had learned went right out the window. Cause my ego just grabbed onto it. I feel great. I did this and I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to force it down your throat. So my sponsee was about to celebrate their six month anniversary. And I was really proud. I couldn't wait for everybody to know. And I got a phone call from my sponsee that said they drank and they tried to commit suicide and they were in the mental hospital. So what did I do? I started calling my friends. Can you believe this happened to me? Like I was all about me and that's how I started, you know? And, and I called, um, actually my wife's ex-husband and I was telling him, he goes, he goes, I'm going to say something that sounds really weird. And I'm like, yeah. And he goes, did you drink? And I said, no. And he goes, then it was successful. He said, I've had someone jump off the bridge and kill themselves. Someone shoot themselves, you know, whatever. And, um, they, he told me that when they started doing, I'm just going to share this when they started doing the big book, the way the hyena, the guys that started, it was really, um, the hyena's big book. They're in Barnstable now, but he said that they never, they never really focused on 10 and 11. It was always like, you know, you, you go through nine and you know, you do a little bit of that. You kind of dump your sponsee, you move on and you're doing 12 and people started killing themselves. So that's how serious 10 and 11 are. And this is what all these suicides that started happening is what made them think about that. I just want to share that. Cause I, that was really impactful to me because I did end up in that space. Like I said, I did the steps and, um, then didn't practice 10 and you know, I was five years sober and ready to jump off a bridge myself. So, you know, and, and I learned a lot from that. I, you know, and I heard other people share about, I don't know. How like I've got my big book and I'm going down to the nooner, you know, we call it the loony noony and hyenas and I'm going to get all my little disciples and I'm going to take them through and save them. And, um, you know, I've just learned so much from my sponsees and, and, uh, you know, I, I had at one point I raised my hand and the person on this side of me was 75 years old, asked me to sponsor him. And the person over here, that's like 20 something asked me to take him through the steps. And I'm like, I got nothing. I can't help somebody who's 75. I'm like, I'm over 20. Never, you know, whatever. And it was always like, I had people that just kept taking me back to the book, you know, taking me back to the book. And what I found is the connection for me about practicing the principles and all my affairs is nobody wants what I have if I'm not actually doing that. And, um, you know, I, I, I think the greatest experience for me in my life is being able to take someone else through the steps and listening to fifth steps and walking people through. And I've had people that. Yeah. I've had somebody, uh, some people this morning like that have gotten to the fourth step and they stall. And I used to be like fired. Cause that's what I was taught. Like you don't do the work you're fired. And I don't do that anymore. You know, as a, as a sponsor now, I, you know, I had somebody who said to me, oh, I know I have my schedule. Cause I also used to do the schedule thing. Everything my sponsor did with me. And now I like take my sponsor where they're at. I don't, I'm not as like neurotic about like, you have to do everything. Some people need that. And they respond to that. Some people don't. And, um, I had a sponsor. Call and say, I'm going to have to take some time off. It's summer. And I like to go to the beach and I'm going to, so I'm going to take a break from my writing. I said, okay. And what I would have said before was, well, I guess you don't want to do the work. You know, I would have given him a hard time. I just said, okay. And they're like, really? And I said, yeah, mine's done. And that's sort of been my approach now. Like I don't carry around what other people do or don't do. And what I, I got off my train of thought. I got off my train of thought about the only way to carry the messages by doing the, you know, taking someone through the steps, which I believe is the message. That's where my recovery is. And some people don't ever do the steps. They read them on the wall. They're good. They go to a meeting. It wasn't good for me. I would have been dead. But, um, what I found out today, like the people that keep me sober, the ones that show up at meetings, I don't care if you're sharing a message. I do not want to hear I've learned something from it. And you're at a meeting where I get to be at a meeting. And, um, I, it was specially done. I think during COVID where I really started to appreciate people that would go on zoom, you know, the, I heard from so many people, I didn't get a meeting for years because I can't do zoom and I'm uncomfortable on zoom. And I thought about it. I'm like, well, I was uncomfortable going to an in-person meeting at first. Everything's uncomfortable at first. We don't like change. Well, I don't like change. And then I'd see somebody who's never used a computer before. I had people call me and say, I don't know how to get on zoom. And I would go to their house and they'd hand me the computer through the door and we'd figure it out. And they'd struggle. And, you know, there's always the, I remember the first year of like hosting a meeting every year of being like, could you unmute? Could you, am I unmuted? Can you hear me? You know, like everybody knows if you've been on zoom, it's like, can you hear me? It's like four years, five years in, I'm like, okay, at this point, if you haven't figured it out, you know, like whatever, but anyway, yeah. And you know, for me, like it does keep me sober. And what I always find when I'm talking to a sponsee is even if I don't recognize them, even if I don't recognize it, whatever they're asking me about and we're, you know, we're, we're talking through and I'm sharing my experience, it's actually something I need to know right now. Like something is concurrently going on with me that I may not even been aware of. And you know, I always thought like, oh, I shouldn't call my sponsor. I don't want to bother them, whatever. And then being on the other end of it, learning how much that helps me, you know, like when somebody calls me, I'm like so excited. Um, and. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Um, yeah. And I don't even know where I was going with that. Why don't you share for a bit? Cause I'm like, I've lost, I've lost a, oh, I know one thing I was going to say at one point I had like six sponsees that were all like supposed to be writing and I was freaking out and you know, I was only a couple of years sober and uh, I went to this guy, no. Um, and I was like, I don't know what, and then he goes, open the book, you know, and it says like, you know, they'll. The people that need to do the work and will, and he goes, they, they, it works itself out. You show up, make yourself available and sure enough, two people disappeared. I've never heard from them again. You know, and that, and that's just how it worked out instead of me once again, trying to manage, you know? Um, anyway, sorry. Yeah. Got it. Uh, thanks bud. Hey everybody. Um, Sarah addict and I'm grateful to be here and uh, you know, I think about this step. Um, and I always think about it in three parts. Having had a spiritual awakening, number one, carrying the message number two, and then how are you practicing it in your life? So um, you know, in the beginning when it says having had a spiritual awakening, the idea is that I have changed, right? Somewhat. Um, and you know, when it talks about. In the spiritual experience and in that section I read, I think yesterday, you know, I can describe it like this before I did this set of steps in 99 I saw myself, I saw the world and everybody, my friends, people from a particular perception of reality. And after I did the steps the way I did them, it was like my head swiveled and suddenly I saw myself. I saw myself, the world and God and everybody else from a totally different angle. And that was the depth of the spiritual experience I had. And moreover, because I really clean stuff out, I myself, like I said, I used to be manic or asleep. I had more calmness. I had the more ability to be with people. I had more love for people. I had more clarity. Um, I had a deeper connection. I had a deeper connection with a higher power. You know, my, when it says my attitudes and think, and my thought life and my feeling life changed, that is what happened. I was no longer, I was just talking to a guy about reactivity. You know, I was no longer in reaction to people all the time. My reaction to life changed. So you know, that piece of step 12 to me is so critical because it's like, if you've done this. You know, the way it's laid out. And I'm going to talk about it. I'm going to talk about that too. You should feel different. You know, you should feel like, wow, some lightness, some connection with your peeps, connection with a higher power. I would think you'd have kind of a daily spiritual practice. So you know, that's the beginning. And hopefully when that's the case, people will want you to share it, right? If I'm being an example of someone who's had a spiritual experience, then someone's going to want me to help them. So that's the first thing. And I also want to say this because in this, I don't know if this is controversial, but not everybody knows how to sponsor. You know, this is the thing. I've been around 40 years. I have had a bunch of sponsors. I think my first three sponsors in the first 10 years were just as crazy as I was and didn't know anything about step work. Kind of asked me randomly to do this. Do you know how to do stuff? Have you written your life story? Have you said you're sorry to your parents? Have you like, you know, okay, you know, whatever. So you know, and I've thought about this a lot, but I really think, and I'm not going to give you percentages, but I would say at least 50%, if not more, don't know how to take someone through the steps because that's not their sobriety and there's no judgment there. But I think I've had clients that come in and say, you know, gee, I asked Joe to sponsor me, but he's not helping me with the steps. He's just calling me every day and I'm telling him my problems and it's like, and that can be helpful and maybe in the beginning and believe me, I'm talking about myself. I mean, I sponsored people like that. Just call me with your problems, you know? But then when I became a shrink and I had no time or bandwidth to listen to people's problems, then it changed, you know, cause I was listening to problems all day long. I had no interest in anybody else's problems. So it was like, and then I did this work and I saw how, oh my God, what have I been doing? You know, I've been helping people, you know, again, not that it's not good to have someone to vent to. And if you need to like check reality, I call it reality check and you go through something and you call your sponsor. You go, hey, I'm a sponsor. I'm a sponsor. I'm a sponsor. Hey, this is what happened. Do you see this this way? That type of stuff. Awesome. But after I really got into step work, it's like, and I've seen the transformations that happen in people's lives and I now know how to take someone through the steps like that's how I do it. And again, I have other folks in my life that might call and check in about something and I might, you know, give them a little advice or whatever. But in. General. Because this is such a commitment to people and because I really feel like it helps people transform their lives. You know, I've had clients who I've seen for years and then I say to them, hey, you know what I'm seeing? I'm seeing that you're just still pissed off. You're still living in fear. Why don't you go find someone out of Big Book Steps and do the steps? And I never see them again. And sometimes, you know, I had a kid to my house the other day. He was five years sober and I was supposed to do some work for me, but he was out of his mind. He was he was using me as a therapist. It was like I was like, aren't you here to supposed to help me with this? And I said to him, you know, and he was saying, you know, could you give me a therapist name? And I said, listen, why don't you do this first? Like, again, therapy is awesome. Trauma. You need to work some out. You're grieving. Whatever. I'm totally about therapy. Believe me. I've been a therapist, obviously. But I also think that if you find someone to really kind of do this work to clear out some of the stuff you can first and then see what's left, that's really the way to go. So I said to this kid, I gave him a meeting list of certain meetings that we go to. And I said, try this first. And I will also say this is the sad part. You know, not everybody in AA is well. You know. I have my moments. So even at what I call big with subsidy meetings, there's crazy people in there. You know what I mean? So I've also had experiences where someone goes, oh, I went to those meetings and I got this sponsor and they said this. And then, you know, maybe find someone else. Like, again, to me, it's still up to us. If you're with a sponsor and you think they're nutty and they're not really, you know, that could be partly that you don't want to hear what they have to say. Because that happens all the time. You know, I'm with this guy right now who is classic. He hasn't gone through the steps. And and he calls me up. He got a big book subsidy sponsor. He calls me up. He's like, I don't know, Sarah, this guy. And my first thought is, oh, my God. Oh, my God. He just doesn't want to do this work. You know. And anyways, the guy was a little nuts, frankly. And so he found someone else. And so, I mean, again, it's not like all or nothing. Or like everybody's well and every person you ask to sponsor you will be the perfect person. It doesn't work out like that. And they might be well, but they're not. That doesn't work for you. It doesn't work for you. Exactly. Exactly. So I just really encourage people. So now what I do is I think because, you know, I do this for a living. What I do is if someone asks me to sponsor them, I just say to them, look, I'm not someone I'm not going to be the person to call every day or, you know, tell. Right. Right. This is how I do it. And I'm totally committed to you. And I do it this way. And I get together with you and I'll write with you. And but it's really your work. And then I'll do your fifth step and I'll guide you. I'll be your guide. And to me, that's been the most profound way to do it with people. And also, most people are flamingly codependent. So it's like we have a hard time, you know, getting out of situations. I don't want to hurt my sponsor's feelings. So I don't want to hurt my sponsor. I don't want to hurt my sponsor's feelings, even though they're not doing anything or I don't want to. You know, it's like so crazy town, I call it. And, you know, that's why, you know, working on that stuff. And like when I always talk about coming back to you, coming back to you, coming back to you. What do you want? What do you need? And also, you know, in my book, I'm going to give out some books to folks. The first tool of getting sane is finding your voice. Because if you can't speak your truth to people in your life and you're like dismissing yourself and minimizing it. Oh, you know, they'll be upset. That's going to lead to freaking chronic unhappiness. The most important thing is to know what you think and feel and be able to speak it. And doesn't that sound so easy? Should be so easy, right? It's also easy to get lost in. You should be of service, be of service, be of service, be of service. Yes. Because that peace to thine own self be true versus be of service can get very confusing for people. Yes. Yes. Yes. Deciding what's right for you. I mean, I know folks that sponsor tons of people and are overwhelmed but can't not do it because that's what it says. Finn and I talk a lot about like, and this is going to be controversial as well. But there are these rules. Someone will say, hey, every time you're asked to speak, say yes. Well, who made that up? I don't know. Maybe I got seven kids at home and I'm freaking exhausted on Thursday night. You know what I'm saying? It's like, yeah, in general, sure, there are these rules that have been passed on that, you know, are suggestions, I think. But nobody's telling you what to, like, really, it's deciding what's right for you. So, that, I went off on a tangent. But anyways. So, carrying the message. So, that's how I do it. I really help people through the step work. And I love Bill W.'s writing. I love Bill W.'s writing in this step 12 because, to me, I mean, he obviously was channeling a higher power. But he is so spacious. He's like, yeah, you know, sit down and have a chat at first. You know, and that's usually what I do. I sit down and have a talk with someone. You connect. You connect with a person at first. That's the job, right? You hear about their lives a little bit. And then you kind of ask them, maybe read the first 63 pages. And then maybe you get together. You know, so you treat them. You're like a human being. And that's the, okay, that's the, I'm, like, griping all my, like, things now. The control stuff with people. You know, this is the thing. If you're an untreated codependent, one of your issues is going to be control. And where does that manifest? In sponsoring people. I've seen that over and over and over again where someone gets a sponsee and then the next thing is, like, they're their child or something. Or they, you know, it's like our job. We're going to help them to frickin' grow and become the adults they're supposed to become. Not to be someone I'm controlling, changing, bossing around, telling what to do. Like, all that stuff is about me. That's about me. And I can sponsor as many people as I want or not. I can change relationships with people. You know, I have, like, five people now that I haven't talked to probably in a year. Do I think I'm going to call them up and say, hey? Hey, you're not doing what. No, it's none of my business. It's not my business. They're not living their lives. My sponsor would never tell me anything to do in my life. Like, if I call him and I'm upset about work or I'm confused about a relationship or I'm like. He never says. It's always putting me back to my higher power. Every time. And then, and also the whole piece about sitting with it. Like, what does it feel like? You know? And am I right with my higher power? He never engages. And I mean, I want answers. Tell me what to do so I can blame you later. Yes. You know, like, I don't want to. I don't want to sit and wait. I need you to tell me what to do and what's going to make me feel better. And I've seen a lot of people sponsor that way. I've done it. Like, you know, what we mentioned earlier. Yeah, we're not marriage counselors. We're not all that stuff. You know, it's like the only thing that I have to offer is to take someone through the steps the way I did it. And to share. To share how I didn't pick up a drink before I did the steps. You know, like, how I stayed sober every day. And that's all I personally have to offer. How, maybe how I, you know, anything about my own experience. Yes. And, you know, that's one of the triggers I see with people. Like, my sponsor told me to do this. And my sponsor told me to do that. And I shouldn't take this job. I'm like, whoa, I wouldn't want that responsibility. Right. Right. And again, this is like, I've been around a long time. I've made. Believe me, tons of mistakes. So, this is coming from experience. I know, shocking. Yeah. So, I mean, believe me, I've done everything wrong and twice. So, you know, so this is just coming from experience. And again, I think as I continue to grow in my spiritual life, I'm much and much less attached to what everybody else is doing. And I also have to remember this. Everybody has a history. You know, I don't know what that history is. I don't know what you've been through. So, it's not my business to start judging and barking out orders and treating you in a certain way because that's about me. I can say to you, I love you. It would be really helpful. You know, what I'm seeing is you're still angry and maybe you want to do a little 10 step cleanup to help with that. Now, if they decide not to do that. That's not my business. But I also need to be honest in my relationships. And that I see, you know, well, you know how AA meetings are. Oh, so and so, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, you know, the gossip train. And I say to people, you know, it would be great if you could talk to them. Talk to them. Because that, you know, I don't know anything about it. You know what I mean? I mean, so really that whole idea of working stuff out directly with people. It's another thing. You know, be authentic. I mean, you've been to meetings when people are spouting like freaking, you know, whatever. This detached kind of this is the way it should be. It's hard to hear. When someone is really telling the truth, everybody's ears are open. And so telling the truth is what we really want in our relationships. But it seems so hard. Again, because we don't want somebody to get mad. Or hurt us. Or hurt someone else. Even sharing our own experience. I was thinking about we were talking about practicing the principles and all that. Yes. How I initially kind of came through the steps and then, you know, forgot that there's other parts of the program. And, you know, like practicing 10, 11. I was so shocked after 6 and 7 when I finally got angry. I talked about that. That I felt a lot of shame about it. Because somehow, despite the fact that I was so angry. I was so hurt. I was so hurt. And I don't know how despite the fact that I had been listening to people talk about the steps. And how they, you know, repaired situations. I heard once I go through this, I have a spiritual awakening and I am now God. And I don't mean in the ego sense. I mean I have to be like loving and forgiving and kind. And I can never act a certain way. And I was so shocked when I would get upset. And what I forgot was the repair part of the steps. It's not about walking around. Yes. somebody say to me don't be so godly that you're no earthly good and so what what required me like to go back to get to that place where I was broken and then to start going through the steps again and talk to people they're like hello you're a human being you're gonna be a human and I I forgot that and it's kind of funny thinking back how I said I was judging the concept of a higher power or God based on how humans act and I realized that but then I kind of came through expecting myself to be a certain way and you know I'm the shame about not wanting to tell someone the things that you know and I had a sponsor be like are you kidding like they had such a loose relationship with their thoughts in their head and a sense of humor about it it's like one time I was walking to work from the tee and I saw a homeless person and I thought how lucky are they they don't have to go to work they could drink all day and I was like you know whatever I am crazy thoughts like that so you know develop it like starting to understand like oh there's repair there's a repair part because that's practicing the principles practicing the principles isn't running around being a perfect human yeah me it means when I step out of line I have ten and I can make amends I can look I can revisit my behavior I can ask for help from my higher power with my behavior and also being able to share when you say about sharing honestly I can tell you the crap I did because I know that that's who I am like I and I think I'm hysterical my head provides me with so much entertainment where the first time I did the steps I was in constant frustration with like why am i like this I don't want to be like this I'm supposed to be a certain way now I think I'm hysterical like I literally could spend the whole day by myself with my thoughts I just it's a lot of entertainment over here you know I had a whole thing this morning I was telling Sarah she was dying laughing and it was all just in here you know and I'm like and then somebody looked at me and I you know but I just think I don't know I'm going to end up in this mess I will I'll just let that slide I hope you guys enjoyed watching this video if you did so much I don't beat myself up. Like, I literally was like, you know, now I'm just like, yeah, you screwed up. My wife's in the hospital dying. And she's, you know, she's an alcoholic, has been sober like 36 years. And they wanted to give her morphine or something. I don't even remember what it was. And I was like, don't you, you know, and I start interfering with the doctor. And don't you think you should try, like, start with Advil or something, you know, whatever. Like, she's because, you know, we don't want her to, you know, become, you know, whatever. And what I noticed, she was a little high and it was uncomfortable for me, to be honest with you. Like, it was uncomfortable for me to see her a little loopy. And, you know, she said to me, like, when the doctor left, like, mind your business. Like, I cannot ask for pain meds because I feel bad and I finally have relief. Then she dies four days later. What's going around my head, you know? But I understand why I did it, you know, and I can let it go. And I needed to share that with, I needed to talk to people about, like, this is what I did. And then my wife died. I felt relief. I'm like, oh, my God, I feel relief because she's, like, how horrible is that? She's the love of my life. But the thing is, I'm sitting there with the woman who's, like, got brain damage thinking, oh, my, is this going to be the rest of my life? Like, it's all, everything exists. There's no, like, and I want to be the person to stand up here and tell you the lunatic I am, the self-centered person I am, because that's how I can be of use. You know, like, I'm not attached to that's good or bad. It's just the way. It is. Yeah. My brain is very, I consider it, like, completely intelligent because it comes up with, like, and I'm, like, finally relaxed. And it's like, oh, but, you know, well, the tree could fall in the house. And, you know, like, I get all these things, like, and then if I don't engage, my head goes to another problem. And I'm not, like, it's like, it ups the ante. And I'm like, what else you got? Because I'm not engaging. Anyway, that, for me, it was key to end up with a sense of relationship. I mean, a sense of humor about my mind. The alcohol is an alcoholic brain. And a loose relationship with my thoughts. And then also remembering that life is about repair. Yes. It's not about perfection. Yeah. And I was just going to give an example of, so, we are not perfect. And I was going to give two examples. One example of losing it recently. And then another example of how the power of this works. So, a week ago, I think I said, like, Finn and I. I had a fight. I don't know if I told you this. Anyways, Finn and I do things differently. Right? He, you know. Well, I didn't know we were in a fight at first. Okay. Yeah. So, what happened was this. I'm going to own it. So, I'm getting anxious. Because I think I told you guys, I've, like, for weeks been, like, reading over the big book. Reading over the step book. Listening. You know. It's kind of like. And, of course, having said one thing I had written down. So, I'm like a planner. I like to be on top of things. And I've been saying to Finn over the last, you know, month to say, hey, we should get together occasionally. Yeah. This is him. We should get together occasionally. We need to talk. What about our schedule? Can you tell I'm a manager? Which is giving me anxiety left and right. So, I want to, you know, my code crazy is I want to manage stuff. And sometimes that's not in check exactly. So, I leave him a message, I think. I think I send him a text. I say, hey, bud. You know, we're going to be doing this thing next. This weekend. And, like, we haven't gotten together yet. And, geez, I could come down there on Saturday and we could talk. And, like, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Chatting. So, he texts me back. Would you like me to read it? No. And don't. Yeah. So, he texts me back. I asked her. I said, can I play the message you left me? And she's like, I want to be vulnerable, but not that much. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. All right. So, he texts me back. Something like, and I know it's probably nothing like this, but this is what I heard. Something like, well, I thought we were fine. And, well, I don't know. Do we really need to get together? Or, you know, I don't know. Like, how I heard it was this. I felt totally dismissed. I felt like a lunatic. I felt like, what the fuck? Right? Like, I felt like he. I felt like he was saying I was being nutty, which I was. And, what's the problem? Like, what's the problem here? We don't need to get together. Like, well, I mean, again, totally different. We had plans to get together, mind you. We had already had plans. Before she asked me about getting together. Yeah. And, in my text back, I said I could meet even a half an hour earlier to give the extra time. I just want to point that out. Remember when I was talking about activation? Okay. Okay. Like, major activation occurred at that moment I got that text. Okay? I get this text. And, I'm like, what the fuck? I say to myself, what is he talking about? I'm like, we got to get together. Anyways, this is where. This is an example of not pausing. You know the whole voice to text thing? No, the voice memo. The voice memos are my favorite. Okay? God says to me, do not send this. Okay? And, I'm like, fuck that. And, I sent him this voice text. Half crying. Half crying. Half like, you don't understand me. Half like, whatever. Again, nothing about him. About five F-bombs. Five F-bombs. But, really. So, I send the thing. And, he was. So great. And, this is a really great tool. If you cannot get activated. And, remember that someone else's anger is not about you. He responded. And, he said, wow. Sounds like you're really upset. No. I said, it sounds like my text landed the way I intended. Landed the way it did. Right. And, which totally. What did it do? Deescalated me. Mind you, I did start to write back, wow. Fuck. I deleted it. So good. I paused. But, you know what? Honestly, we've had some fights. But, it never. Never have I got a voice memo like that. Enraged and screaming at me. So, I knew that's not. Yeah. If somebody was doing that to me constantly. They would have been blocked. Yeah. This is, I think, our second bit. Well, for me. It was my activation. Nothing to do with him. But, what. So, what had happened for me is. I grew up with a dad that was an attorney that knew everything. And, there was something that got activated. Like, I felt invisible. I felt dismissed. I felt not heard. So, because I've done my fears. And, I kind of can see where that stuff happens. That literally like five minutes after I rifled that off. I went, okay, bud. Sorry. I'm working it out. I will get back to you. That's all about me. And, the thing was over in a half an hour. So, think about that though. You know, think about arguments or activations you get into. And, if you can have people in your life. Where you can take. Be responsible and own your part. You can have just powerful, powerful relationships. I just had a split second. Go ahead. Where it occurred to me my friend's hurting. Right. That's why I didn't respond the way I did. Right. I don't know where that thought came from. But, it did. Yeah. Well, we all know where that thought came from. Yeah. And, I was. Yes. So, that was like an activation that I acted out. Now, I'm going to give you one other example of thinking to myself. I can get tearful thinking about this. Where this work saved my life. So, I'd been practicing 10th steps. Doing a lot of work. My kid was a senior in high school. And, some of you already know this story. But, and he was the fall semester senior. You know, I had this whole agenda where he's going to college. Of course. Which he didn't do any of that. Of course. But, and you know how like the military. And, God. Anybody who's in the military. God bless you. Love the military. I just didn't want my kid going into the military. So, what happened is. He comes home one afternoon. And, it's like, you know, 2, 3 in the afternoon. I'm seeing clients. And, he goes, can I talk to you? And, I said, sure, bud. Sit down. I have a few minutes. And, he was super serious. And, he goes, mom. You know, recruiters came today to the high school. And, he goes, I'm really thinking of joining the military after college. And, immediately in my heart, all I saw was, you know, my kid's dead. What's going to happen? We were in the middle of, you know, the Iraq stuff. And, all the stuff. And, I literally paused. And, you know what I said? I said, tell me about it. Now, that was not from me. I am literally goose bumps. I said, tell me about it. And, he told me about this experience that he had had with this military. And, I said, I'm going to tell you. So, every agency that I checked to see if he was in the military, they installing chased him in. He was with a group of нормально. He was walking around in his dell tower. And, he was labelled. And, he said, bud, have you Statista. And, I said, it's absurd. Because, he really was at the airport. not to go or if I had been enraged with him which would have been from fear it would have affected our relationship and God knows how he would have reacted so I'm just giving you that example because big stuff happens in our lives and how we respond or react to it can change the trajectory of someone's life so I just wanted to say that as like you know this work is profound and again you know the way we did it was through this big book step study if anyone wants information on that I'd be glad to send you information on the meetings obviously there's other ways to do it this was the way I did it that really changed me and uh you just reminded me go ahead um you know I'm not immune to flipping out either and I remember when I you know was trying to be God because I had been through the steps and I you know all light perfection and my my wife's new car and we're sitting in it and she was like oh my god I'm not immune to flipping out and I'm not immune to flipping out and I'm not immune to flipping out and I'm not immune to flipping out she's in the driver's seat I'm in the passenger seat and she said something and we got into a little thing and I punched the living crap out of the dashboard until it broke it she would never let me get it fixed so I could just stare at that thing and I was like but you know that I just remember like I snapped because I hadn't been working through stuff and I wasn't calm you know and I just like I had no clue that there was anything wrong until I'm like looking at this dashboard for three years and I was like so I know we just have five minutes left and I wanted to um and you know I always say Finn loves this but I'm going to read a couple of quotes and I also want to say so I wrote this book on codependency I brought I think there's like 20 copies right here now um if you feel like you're codependent struggling with relationships really want some support definitely come up and get a book they're free you can obviously get a book if you're not a codependent you can get a book if you're not a codependent you can get a book on codependence obviously if they run out you can get one on Amazon if you can't afford it just reach out to me and I'll send you one all right because I'm really my purpose right now after being sober a long time Finn and I talk about this a lot the untreated kind of co-crazy and relationship stuff in sobriety to me is can really cripple people and uh so that's kind of you know I feel like a blues brother I feel like I'm a mission from God we do this work to be free yeah and and uh you know I mean I literally just will say this I was at a meeting recently there's probably 35 people in that meeting 30 of them have over 25 years of sobriety and every single one talked about people pleasing and I thought this is insane like you know so that's why I'm constantly getting the messages that kind of this is the work I'm really interested in we do groups online sometimes we also by the way have a uh YouTube channel called leaving crazy town so look it up and subscribe and it's all about codependency recovery and also my emails in the back of the book if you have any questions on anything please reach out to me so I'm gonna read I always say like if you think you have if you don't think you have an issue with codependency and you find yourself upset and you're saying I have to this and I have to that and I have you probably don't have to you're choosing to and if you just change I I have to do I choose to it could be a game changer for you and I would say I would say that's a great way to start your day and I would say I want to thank everybody for listening and not throwing stuff at us it's it was such a pleasure to be here all weekend and get to know some people so thank you so much okay last cut you're gonna read your quote I am gonna read my quote but I also whipped off 10 one more last thing all right you guys 10 things that happen when you do the steps all right or you're gonna tell me that you Or, no, wrong, sorry. When I looked at practicing this in all your affairs, these are the things that came up to mind. Being loving and kind. Always remember we don't know someone's story. Everyone presents a certain persona. And what I want you to remember is it's just a persona. It could be an accumulation of their survival skills. It may not look to you like the right thing or it may look offensive, but remember all that is is someone's survival skills. Remember it is not personal. What comes out of someone else's mouth is not about you. Speak your truth. Don't be in denial. Be in your own reality. And just work on, you know, say what you need, say what you mean. You know, that whole thing. Be grateful. My brother, who's a therapist, always says, when you're spiraling, pull the lens back. Right? When you're spiraling, you're stuck in a certain belief. Pull the lens back. Start looking in a greater picture. That often helps. Don't do it alone. Don't believe every freaking thought you have. My brain is nonsense. 99% of the time. And lastly, live from your heart, not your head. Woo! All right. We were supposed to stop at 10.20. I know. I know. We're stopping at 10.30. I got two. It was supposed to be 10.20. I got, oh, I thought you said 10.30. All right, two quotes. Can you say 10.20? This is from the end of Bill's story. And I read this the other night and it was so moving to me that I thought I'd share it with you at the end. So I love Bill W. I didn't know him. I thought he was a nut, but he has changed the world and he was such a spacious human being. So anyways, this is at the end of his story. An alcoholic in his cups is an unlovely creature. Our struggles with them are variously strenuous, comic, and tragic. One poor chap committed suicide in my home. He could not or would not see our way of life. So that is, you know, this illness is freaking deadly. There is, however, a vast amount of fun about it all. I suppose some would be shocked at our seemingless worldliness and levity. But just underneath, there is deadly earnestness. Faith has to work 24 hours a day in and through us or we perish. Most of us feel we need look no further for this utopia. Yeah. Excellent. This is utopia, people. Don't forget. All right. Drudge the heavy destiny. All right. This is the last quote. This is a great book. It's called Brave Enough, and it just has a lot of great quotes in it. She stops drinking and starts, but oh well. I used to see a butterfly in my mind's eye every time I heard the word brave enough. Every time I heard the word brave enough. Every time I heard the word brave enough. Every time I heard the word brave enough. Every time I heard the word transformation. But life has schooled me. Transformation isn't a butterfly. It's the thing before you get to be a pretty bug flying away. It's huddling in the dark cocoon and then pushing your way out. It's the messy work of making sense of your fortunes, misfortunes, desires, doubts, hangups and sorrows, actions and accidents, mistakes and successes. So you then... You can go on and become the person you should become. Okay. That's it. It's the way out, people. I'm going to clap again. Okay. Wow. What a weekend. You guys stayed the marathon. Guys, this is really hard to do a whole weekend like this, so let's just give it up for them one more time. Thank you. I hope you guys heard a bunch of things and got to connect with awesome fellowship, got inspired. I know a lot of us always feel so recharged and refreshed after this weekend, and that's what we hope for you guys going forward. So with that, how about we end with the Lord's Prayer? Awesome. Beautiful. Beautiful. Hold hands if you like, if that's your jam. All right. Are you backwards? Yep. I know. Bill's backwards. Bill's backwards. All right. And to close out this beautiful weekend, who keeps us sober? Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever. Amen. Thank you, everybody. Be safe on your travels.