Reconstruction of the Ego – Big Book Workshop – Part 2 of 2 – Mark

Good evening everybody. My name's Mark and I'm an alcoholic. Testing, testing. Can you hear all that alright? Can everybody hear that in the back? Raise your hand if you can hear me. In the back? Probably going to have to come closer. Test. Can you hear me now? There's a commercial that does that, isn't there? I apologize for being late, so I'll start out making amends. I told you I'll be here at 6 o'clock, but now I have to add something to this amend. It's not my fault. Some of you probably made amends like this, right? It's Greg and Diane's fault. They're from Nashville. I want to make sure this is on the tape. They've never been here, and we actually thought we could follow MapQuest and get here, except we didn't know the difference between east and west. And then you've got four drunks in a car. with four different ideas of where we should go. So at any rate, we got here about 6.15, the first time I've been in Memphis. It's good to be here. I was separated from alcohol on October 19th of 1982 by a power that is within and without that I had been asleep to and certainly hadn't called on most of my life. and it is that power that has kept me separated from alcohol a little over 20 years and I assure you if you have any time sober if your experience is like mine there were many times I wanted to drink in those 20 years and a whole bunch of times when I should have God doesn't want you drinking, you're not drinking I know that because I drank for 20 years and God separated me from alcohol and I have not been able to pick up a drink since and that is not of my doing and I'll talk more about that as the weekend goes I want to read Joe and I practice the disciplines of the 10th and 11th step and the 11th steps talks about be quick to see where religious people are right so I'm going to be reading some things throughout the course of this weekend from different spiritual books that have had an influence on me and are currently having an influence on me. This is one of my favorites. It's a book of daily meditations called 365 Tao, and the meditation today is extremely appropriate. It's titled Actual. It says the actual is only actual in one place and at one time. When one listens to a barking dog, one might imagine emotion, pain, reaction, anxiety, and self-identification. But actually, there's nothing there, just sound from a long and deep corridor channeled out of nothingness and fading into nothingness again. Like that dog, we may all strive, but there's truly nothing to be done. If we look deeply into our lives, there is only a thin veneer of self-generated meaning over an immense ocean of nothingess. What we do only has meaning in the here and now, the present moment. It will not remain in the next instant. Just do what you can for the present and leave everything else to happen naturally. Work, wash, meditate, eat, study, urinate, sleep, exercise, talk, listen, touch. Die each night, be born again each morning. I tell you how slow I am sometimes. 20 years in Alcoholics Anonymous to understand that spiritual living is being present to the moment with the focus being on being present to the moment instead of where you're at, who you're with, and what you're doing. That's what spirituality is to me based on my experience. I don't need to go to a church. I don'T need to GO TO AN ASHRAM. I GO TO ALL THOSE PLACES. BUT WHEREVER I AM, THAT'S WHERE I'M GOING TO MEET GOD. I used to have this idea of all these things that you would have to do somehow and something was more spiritual than the other until that simple phraseology of chop wood and carry water. The most spiritual thing I do is, I take today for example, I get up at five, that's a practice, a discipline I've had for many years. I was raised on a farm in Iowa. You can take the Iowa farm boy out of the farming country but it stays in And so I still get up with the chickens. I spent about 45 minutes in prayer. I meditate two times a day. It's a daily practice. Then I went and ran. Running is a meditation for me. Then I spent a little bit of time with a friend of mine, finished packing, got in a plane, got here. A little fellowship this afternoon, and here I am. And that is by far the most spiritual thing I could have done all day was to be present to all of those things. so 20 years to learn that what an amazing deal see there's a power that keeps me from drinking and guides me and directs me and loves me and protects me I'm only present to that power if I'm present to the moment in most of my life I was not and I'll talk more about that as we go through the weekend one of the things I like to talk about with people if you come to something like this If you're like me, what you bring are memories of past experiences and attachments to your belief systems and opinions. And if you're also like me and you begin to hear things that challenge any of that, it produces what I like to call an inner resistance. And it normally starts with me shutting off my ears. And normally, ultimately, it leads to me shutting out my heart. and I always like to talk about this very, very early when Joe and I get asked to do these, to ask that you go through the weekend the same way Joe and I do and that's with an open mind and an open heart. That you not be attached to the memory of a past experience because I promise you that we're going to share some experience with you that's going to sound and look a little different than what you've done. It's not a judgment on what we've done or what you're done. We're just asking you to be open-minded. I want to read something else. One of the influences on me was a man named Anthony DeMello. This is a book called Awareness, and he says, Nobody can describe the truth. Nobody. All I can do is give you a description of your falsehoods so that you can drop them. All I Can Do for You is Challenge Your Beliefs and the Belief Systems That Make You Unhappy. all I can do for you is to help you unlearn that's what learning is all about where spirituality is concerned unlearning unlearning almost everything that you have been taught a willingness to unlearn and to listen and that seems to me to be what a spiritual journey is all about I will tell you what my intent is this weekend my intent is to share with you my experience in the years I've been in AA, to talk to you about the current experience I'm having with the spiritual tools that were laid at my feet and those are the steps. Our intent is to do this in a method in which we talk about the mechanics of the steps, for example when I mean that there is a way to work the first step. I didn't know that my first three years in AA but there is a way to work the first step we're going to talk about in a general way our mechanics and then we're gonna talk about our experience with those steps and we're got to do that with all 12 steps without devoting necessarily any inordinate amount of time to any one step over or any other steps. We will talk to you about something that may be a new concept for some of you it may not for others when it comes to working the steps if you have time in the program, there are two separate belief systems that are embraced. One is that I work steps one through nine one time and live in steps ten and eleven. That's one belief system. There is another belief system and that's the one that I currently currently live and work with and that is that I continually rework one through nine. I do that now on an annual basis starting at the very beginning, living within the spiritual disciplines of the tenth and eleventh step. There's a line in the big book about I can use spiritual principles to solve all my problems. I worked in the field of chemical dependency 12 years. I work on a ranch. We specialize in chronic relapses Over three and a half years, we've had 250 of them come to that facility. These are people, they've been to treatment an average of three to five times in and out of AA. Some of them had sobriety as long as 18 years. And I always ask them to do what I call a relapse autopsy. I think that's a good word to describe where relapse could take a lot of us because it's almost taken a lot on them there. And back to this concept of using spiritual principles or the first nine steps to solve all my problems. Without exception, every person I've ever worked with through the relapse history has relapsed behind, quote, problems. Problems. And unbeknownst to me for quite some time in Alcoholics Anonymous was I could take any problem I have. What are some examples in my life situation? Well, most drunks have problems with money. I doubt I'm the only one I imagine everyone in this room does recently not long ago I was seeking some counsel from this person and I used the term budget she's been sober a long time did you use the word budget that's amazing she said an alcoholic on a budget you don't give me physical health problems I'm sure some of you like me have had problems in relationships and the point that I'm really trying to make it all that is is I work and rework the steps probably every year the first nine minimum one time and the reason is is because ultimately if I get into enough pain and suffering behind all these other life situations there's going to be a drink behind that so that's the reason that I keep reworking the steps. That's why for me my experience shows me that doing 1 through 9 one time and trying to work with 10 and 11 did not accomplish what I needed to accomplish to end the pain and suffering that I continually was putting myself through, and I stress myself because all my troubles are my own making. I ascribe to that theory. One of the things I hated on the early years of AA was it really made me look only at myself you know we hate that. AA is about self-examination and whereby we haven't experienced through the steps it brings, we do internal work to bring about an external change but that was new to me when I first came. I didn't like looking at myself why because what I saw wasn't very pretty that's why we're talking the other day us talking with a lady about forgiveness what she was talking about is when she had made some amends that in her opinion she couldn't even conceive of of that person forgiving her and I said well you know my experience is with people who are not alcoholics a lot of them not all of them forgiveness is done very easily the reason it's very difficult for alcoholics to forgive is we're consumed with ourselves because typically what the alcoholic was says well i just couldn't forgive if that situation was reversed i understand that because being an alcoholic everything is about us isn't it see you know we write right resentments that are 30 years old i we were laughing i was talking with diane she recently made some amends to some to some people and they i sad to say but they hadn't thought once about her since it happened many years ago of course you know it constantly keeps replaying in her mind a matter of fact they could one of them couldn't even remember what it was she was making amends for But, you know, do you see what I'm saying? We just are not. Our wiring is really messed up. I was talking the other day to some people, and I want you to understand this. I do what I do with the steps, this discipline life I lead, Not because I'm trying to be spiritual and not because I want to be a better person. I do it because I don't have any tools, drunk or sober, to handle life. I just don't. Now maybe some of you do, maybe you do well. I don' t. I don''t know how I did what I did today in the world and you expect me to do it tomorrow. That's a pressure that I cannot endure. On any given day, going to the grocery store is an overwhelming deal for me. Now, I wasn't awake to this. I was real asleep my first 10 years in this program, wound up in a psychiatric hospital. That did awaken me a little. And I really started looking at this, and I experienced a truth within myself, the truth that I'm sharing with you now. I am ill-equipped to deal with this world and with life. It scares me, I am weak, and thank God for the disciplines of the 10th and 11th step. Thank God for the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. Thank god for the men and women that I have in my life. Those are the reasons why I do these things. No other reason. call it self-preservation call it whatever you will but that's why I do those things a couple of the things then I'm gonna let Joe share here for a bit one of the thing's Joe and I Joe is my oldest friend in sobriety he's been sober a lot longer than me like 60 days I got dropped off at the treatment center he had gone through. And so we know each other real well. We have a lot of history together. And what he and I know is this, is we're all the same in this room. There's a great book called The Spirituality of Imperfection, and it says that that's probably the very best that you and I are ever going to get or practice. And I believe that there's a lot true to that. When I say that we're just like you. I don't know if any of you have ever read any of the books about Mother Teresa who has since been made a saint but there was a very profound story in one of the books on her. She describes what happened the day she realized she had a Hitler within herself and how that drove her to her knees and the realization that all humans have a Hitler within them. What do I mean by that? I mean we're all the same. Thank God for these disciplines. Thank God for this program. Thank God for these steps because when you're an alcoholic of my kind, without these kind of tools in your life, you are going to be locked up in an institution in a penitentiary where you're going to be dead. We were given another way. Thank God for that. The steps are holy and sacred to me. They saved my life. They allow me to live life beyond my wildest dreams. I couldn't even begin to tell you. Capacity to love, friendships, work, career, every single area of my life. That's why I love to talk about them. I love to talk my experience with them. You know one last thing too, we work off what we call spiritual consent. Those of you who have had the experience I had and you go through these steps and you have this revolutionary change, you want to share it with the world. And if you're like me, you attempted to share it with a lot of people who weren't the least bit interested. So Joe and I, we won't do that here this weekend. We're just here to share our experience. I'm glad there's such a good turnout here. So that having been said, let me turn this over to my good friend Joe. Yeah, we'll figure it out later. Actually, I bet that could come out if you... Well, you'd have to hold it. Hi, I'm Joe. I'm an alcoholic. It's good to be here. It's a good day. See some old friends. Jean, I've known for a long time. I have a new friend, Amy. Amy came to my home group. She was living in Los Angeles, and she came to my homegroup in Santa Monica, I think it was in October and she in my home group were allowed to ask questions I know it's a radical idea but we started noticing something I bet a lot of you have noticed where you might walk into a meeting with a good friend and you know you're you know you're just chatting and being honest on the way there and on the way home but when you walk in the meeting it's like something changes and you're like oh hi mark and there's this impersonal so our group a long time ago So as part of the format, we're allowed to ask anyone anything in the meeting as part of the Format. As long as you stick to the topic or whatever they're talking about. Amy asked a question and asked me a question about surrender and I obviously hadn't. And I said something about she couldn't possibly be an alcoholic because her voice is too cute. And I didn't know that she was going to end up back here in Memphis as part of this group that asked us to come here. That was nice. I'm glad to be here, I just celebrated my 51st natal birthday the day before yesterday and it's also good to be with a good friend that I've known all this time like Mark said Because it's also, Monday will be the one-year anniversary of losing my mother last June, June 9th. And I was with him at that time, working for him at Burning Tree Ranch. And I know that was part of the reason for that. I usually have a lot on my mind that I just kind of need to get out before we start, but I really don't. I've had two days in San Francisco, in the city, enjoying my birthday. I have a dream that I'll tell you about later that's coming true that I've Had for a long time that's happened in the last couple weeks and rested today. But there are some things that are important to talk about before someone starts the work. and I think if we can look at this weekend if you're here for information so you can go back to your home group and sound like you're into the big book that'll be a great thing you'll get some great information but you won't have much of an experience if you say some sort of prayer in your own way in your words to whatever you believe in for an open mind this could actually be an experience rather than just it's something that we could talk about the whole evening but we don't really have that much time, the difference between knowledge and experience. The difference between information and power. It's something that a lot of you know about, getting free of, being attached to. So I would encourage everyone in their own way throughout the weekend when you feel tension coming up because we are going to raise some questions that have made us uncomfortable. Mark and I have gotten free most of the time of worshiping comfort. Comfort is very dangerous for an alcoholic. The book touches on it, but a lot of emphasis is put in this program about, oh, he's uncomfortable. Don't make the newcomer uncomfortable. Don't say anything that will make the old timers uncomfortable. Well, you spend five or ten years in Denver, Colorado with those people where Mark and I got sober, and you'll either get free of that or you'll go somewhere in the suburbs. And fortunately we got free of a lot of that. I'm not intimidated by somebody with time, nor am I intimidated by someone who's got a disability. I'm intimidated by something that's new, nor do I think there's anything I can say or anything that I could do that would drive them away or keep them here. And once you get free from those illusions that you can't keep people sober, you're not god and you can't get people drunk but all of those things are up to god hey it really frees you up even with yourself when you realize you're Not responsible for your own sobriety it's sometimes interesting to me that what a lot of people think is like the number one priority which is to stay sober and that becomes the number one priority in their life I've certainly had those times their number one Priority is really the only thing they can't do anything about if you're powerless over alcohol we're going under the basic assumption here that you're either alcoholic addict alan on something where you are powerless and powerless means powerless not powerless with a choice those don't go together you can't say my name's joe and i'm an alcoholic and i'm powerless over alcohol and my life is unmanageable and i choose not to drink and this is how i manage my life it just doesn't fit you know unless you're insane and And I've been insane and I have believed those things. That powerlessness and choice are similar, you know, that I can bring about my own surrender, that I could smash my ego. I'll get back to you tomorrow after I've surrendered and then do a fifth step with my sponsor and go home and work on my character defects. But powerless means powerless and it's not just powerless over alcohol. We're going to see levels of powerlessness like an onion that go deeper and deeper and deeper and we'll actually see how the first step follows you through the first nine and well into 10 11 and 12 and that there's many things along with alcohol and or drugs whichever it is to admitting that you're powerless and that your life is unmanageable um i'd like to read a prayer that um actually mark shared was with us in um in santa monica and we've had a small group of men for the last six or seven months that come together to be accountable because we found after many years of sobriety if you put yourself in a position or the people around you put you in a position an imaginary position that can be very dangerous and you become somebody who certainly can't be having any problems that delusion runs deep and this is a prayer we use each week when we meet and it goes like this that was god we invite you into this room to guide and direct each of us as we seek your truth. Father, please set aside within each of that which would block us off from the truth. Lay aside our prejudices about what we think we know about this process, this weekend, our spiritual condition. Remove our fears, Lord, that we may hear your truth through the members of this group. Give us the strength and courage to share your truth with each other in a real spirit of love and compassion for our fellow men. Amen. My sponsor doesn't mind. I got sober also in Denver in 1982. I'll be 21 August 17th, way before Mark's 21st birthday. And I still don't think he shows me enough respect for having more sobriety. and i was uh... geographically i was five years in denver my first five years i was ten years in santa monica i was of five years and northern india uh... neither one of those moves were made by me and i think a lot of you can understand that now get to talk about that later and i've been back now year-and-a-half all of it was amazing i'm so grateful for the foundation i got in denmark Colorado from those people, my sponsor and a lot of other people with the work in this big book. You could not go anywhere better in my opinion and I've been all over the world and it's not just because I got sober there. For some reason there is a really strong tradition in some of the groups in Denver of working and reworking the 12 steps mainly by two men, two or three men, Paul Martin from Chicago who was my great grand sponsor. I think it's important if your life is on the line and you're going to somebody and asking them for help, that you know a little bit about who you're asking and what you're getting into. Have they made up their own way of working the steps? Which leads into a good time to say this. Here's the first consideration. Is it possible that not working the step that were given to us as outlined in our basic text is a violation of the 12th tradition because you're putting your personality or a sponsor's personality before the principles that were given to us. And there's people in this country that still respect those principles over their own personality. I'm sure that Don Pritz and Gary Brown and Paul Martin and Frank McKiven have come up with some nifty ideas that would have made taking somebody through the work a little niftier and had to let their own ideas go beyond their own personality or the personality of someone else imposing another program within our program on someone, and that doing that and not adhering to the principles that were given to us that have worked over and over and over in our lives is a violation of the Twelfth Tradition. Those people didn't do that and I'm very grateful for that. So I think it's important to know what if you go to someone and ask them to be your sponsor and every single person they've ever worked with drank because they were only concerned with a 12-step call is good if I don't drink. Now how selfish is that? Nothing's going into the lives of anybody else but I didn't drink, right? That's like the guy at the top of the AA club gets up on the roof and shoots 12 people down on the street and someone in the meeting hall goes, but isn't it great he didn't drink? Killed 10 or 12 people but he didn's drink. So I don't know. I was six months sober in Denver and I hit bottom with the second half of step one. And I knew my life was on the line because I was screwed up further away from my last drink than I'd ever been. And that's baffling when you think drugs and alcohol were your problem. and now that the problem is out of the way, how come I'm so messed up? Well, alcohol and drugs aren't the problem. It's always been interesting to me that alcohol treated alcoholism for a long time. And if you can get this if you're new, welcome to Alcoholics Anonymous. We don't speak for AA. We're only here to share our experience in the last 20-so years of working these steps, of giving ourselves to this process. Every time I've started this work, a prayer has been very powerful. This last time I asked Mark to take me through the work because I was going to go to Texas. I had just gotten back from India and I knew I was gonna be in Texas for a while. I didn't know how long or how short and I asked him to take me through their work and it's been a powerful experience. But my ego will do this every time. The set-aside prayer is not going to work. There won't be much in 1, 2 and 3 that I'm not aware of. There won't be anything in the inventory that's not in my mind already and there won't be very many amends. Every single time the prayer has opened me up, 1, 2 and 3 does its magic, reveals stuff in an inventory that I didn't know was there and amends that I wasn't aware of because doing the work again is to really catch the stuff that you missed doing 10, 11 and 12. You can be rigorous. You can deeply committed to steps 10,11 and 12 upon awakening, evening review, working with others, and stuff gets by. We miss stuff. You see it. I was looking at a two-year period and I said a prayer in my own way to whatever I believe in. I don't even know what I believe in anymore as far as a name. I got free of the names a long time ago. Names for God causes separation war and death which leads me into a comment that makes sense from my experience a lot of religious experience is a block to any kind of religious experience not many people involved deeply in religion have had religious experiences they've only had dogma and rigidity and concepts and word some people in religions get free to see the spirit in the word to have an experience. But I don't know, I just don't have a name for it anymore and I don't think that's important especially in Alcoholics Anonymous. There is a term in here that still fits for me and that's the creative intelligence of the universe underlying the totality of everything within you within everything and it also fits in with one of the second step propositions we'll touch on God is either everything or is nothing then you join a religion and you spend the rest of your life telling people what it isn't. It's not in that one, it's not over there, it can't be in them, it certainly is not over there because it's just with us. And you've just defeated yourself if your purpose is to get more connected and discover the things in yourself which have been blocking you. So this set aside prayer I can't tell you how important it's been every time. My sponsor doesn't like that we've made it into something. There was an off-handed comment he made to me over 20 years ago when I told him my experience. He said, My God, you know enough to be dangerous to yourself and everybody around you. You've been a therapist. You know about alcoholism. You know how you feel. You think you know what's wrong with you. My God could you just say a prayer that what you think you know be put aside long enough for an open mind and a new experience? And it worked. Another thing I wanted to read, this says don't believe in anything simply because you've heard it here. Don't believe traditions because they've been handed down by many generations. Don't belief in anything because it is spoken or rumored by many. Don't belive in anything just because it's found or written in our book. Don't believed in anything merely on the authority of your sponsor or the elders but after observation analysis. When you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, and you've had an experience with it, then accept it and live up to it. Mark usually does this, but how many people in the room in their first year for the first time? First year, first time. Okay. How many are in the for the first year more than their first time how many are here between their second year and their fifth year over five to ten five to 10 over 10 great over 15 over 20 over 25 over 30 so it'll be this little section right here in the front that will be the most pissed off this weekend gene right here and the front row you're gonna have to watch out all right they'll be throwing stuff anybody over 30 years 32 gene how many 31 37 37 okay keep an open mind for a new experience to be taken past where we are because God is everything. He's not finite. This isn't it. This isn' t as far as you could be brought after 37 years. Is there more past here? Levels of peace, freedom, existence, work, more God. One of the saddest things I've heard from old timers around this country and they'll say it right to your face and they' ll be in a mess. They' ll tell you about it if they're free enough and they will make a suggestion and say I've worked the steps. what they're saying to you is there's no more God for me no more God for me steps are about seeking God and discovering the obstacles in your path there's always more that's why alcoholics love this because more is our philosophy a little bit this is enough did you ever like anybody who ever said to you that's enough are you kind of sort of maybe a little kind of guy No, no, no. We want more. So these are questions designed to explore some current myths in Alcoholics Anonymous. It's good to look at these questions before the doctor's opinion and before taking the third step to see the change in thinking between steps one and three before starting inventory. I'm not going to go through all of them but there are a few we like to see what we're dealing with here. Mark touched on this one. How many have suffered from, how many believe that you worked the first nine steps once? Same general dangerous area right here in the front. That's a delusion that almost killed one of our founders. One founder fell victim to it, one founder got free of it. Dr. Bob was influenced by a doctor who is amazing for any of you with time or new to read, Dr. Harry Teabolt. It's sad we've lost his writings in AA. have to find them through Hazleton. But Harry T. Bolt wrote about a phenomena that the other doctors had not told us about. Every doctor that served us gave us a piece. They never gave us the whole picture because they weren't alcoholic, it was just opinions. Dr. Silkworth gave us The Craving. It was an opinion though. Remember, that's his opinion. Is it true or not for you? It wasn't true for him. Carl Jung gave us Spiritual Malady and the Mental Dr. Harry Thiebaud talked about the spiritual malady in an alcoholic after having a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, the dry drunk syndrome, how the ego has recuperative powers. After having a special awakening, a spiritual awakenings as a resultado of the steps, what does the ego do? I'm even going to challenge that. There are people in this room, myself included, for periods of time. There are People in this Room that believe they've had a spiritual Awakening as a Result of the Steps where all they've had is a major awakening as the result of one through nine and a half. They never finished eight, they never finished nine. They have not had an awakening as a result of the steps, and they'll tell you they've been through the work two, three, four times. They've never finished their first set of amends. They've had a major awaking, a life-altering experience as the results of one though nine and half or nine and three quarters, but they have not has a spiritual awakening as result of steps. Another consideration. How many believe that studying the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous will produce a spiritual experience? Good. Studying the big books of Alcoholic Anonymous is a waste of time unless it gets you excited about doing what's in the bigbook of Alcoholix Anonymous. It's a set of instructions to have a spiritual awakening. It's not a book meant to be studied. You never got drunk studying a book about what it would be like to walk across the street to the liquor store and buy a bottle. You had to get up, make a decision, take some action, buy a model, then you got some results. It's not meant to be studied. You never studied at a liquor store. You just went to the liquid store, right? Here's another big one, big delusion in Alcoholics Anonymous. How many in this room believe you'll always be recovering? Oh, good. First promise, first page, first forward to the first edition, promised you that you could recover, but don't confuse that with cured. You can live in a recovered state. That doesn't mean you're cured. That means you're in a position of neutrality. You're experiencing the 10th and 11th step promises. You're on the other side of every amends you were aware of at the time, knowing that there'll be more in the future because we're alcoholic, but you're going to be able to live in that state. You're in an unrecovered state. They promised that, and they promised that when nobody had more than five years. remember page 1 through 164 has not been changed since 1939 bill got sober in 35 am i correct 34 by 39 he had five years nobody had more time in the program than he did and they said that you could recover how many believe where alcohol is concerned today they have a choice? You hear it all the time. Today I choose not to drink. Let me throw this out there so you can share it with other people. Isn't the idea that you have a choice the insanity described in our book about alcohol? Didn't all those people that drank again think they had some sort of choice? And how could you be powerless and have a choice? Do they go together? Power, control, choice. Look at the three words. They're no different. You lose one, you lose all three. How many believe that taking the third step is turning your will and your life over to the care of God? Good. It's just a decision. Just a decision! How many believed they can smash their ego? By this many questions they're scared to raise their hand there's somebody lurking in here that said recently in a meeting i'm going to smash my ego bring about my surrender and work on my defects if anybody wants to look at the rest of those maybe i have a couple copies um there's a lot of questions based on the myths and alcoholics anonymous anybody believe that if the obsession returned that thinking the drink through would keep them from drinking again okay little story about people with time I sponsor a woman who has 38 years sobriety she's 76 years old wonderful woman in Dallas Texas and uh yeah the way that came about was about seven years ago and and with time this happens and you've got to take a course of action to prevent it but she was in Dallas they do a thing I actually really like I've never seen anywhere else but Dallas but what happens is like my home group every month of the year we invite another member from another group to come and share their experience the same night once a week for a month so we get to hear some member from another group 12 different groups she had been doing that for years and sponsored 9,000 women in uh the pillar of her group and uh those kinds of things and one of her protégés had a copy of one of my talks and since she hadn't given her permission to listen to the tape she confiscated it and she had it at home and in the midst of a suicide plan by her she put the tape in and I talked about being sober and dying of untreated alcoholism and she heard it and she broke down and then she tracked me down and said uh and i mean i'm not used to somebody with a lot more time uh let alone some kind of reputation a a uh but i listened to her and and i saw she was very genuine so I took her through the steps and uh the difference in this woman was beyond belief although I have to tell you her ego was so defended that when it came time for the fifth step I had another man who was studying to be a priest fortunately also is a great drunk and the two of us sat down with her and it took us eight hours it took a six hours to crack her ego She's never been the same since She is so at peace with herself Even at that time There were all kinds of problems With family members And that's all healed And she sponsors two or three women And laughs at herself a lot more And I sit down with her every two weeks Actually with her and another woman We do a thing called Steel on steel She's such a role model to me too To be sober that many years and say, you know what, I'm willing to give it all up for a new experience because mine isn't working too well. But she was trapped in that horrible place you can get trapped in when you have time that Joe was talking about. We have set some things in place so that we don't get trapped there because it's a trap. For example, I'll take myself after this weekend. and I'm not going to speak, I strongly suspect, for a minimum of two years. Maybe longer. Why? I started getting asked to speak in 1994 on the plane down here. I was just recalling, I think Joe and I, this is our 16th or 17th one together all over the country. I have done things like this. I have does 42 of these since 1994. That's enough. That's Enough. spirit of rotation. Anything that my ego can attach to and claim some kind of identity is dangerous, it's very, very dangerous. So I have a group of steel on steel. I have a sponsor. It's kind of funny he's 29 years sober. He comes to me for spiritual guidance I go to him for common sense because the two in me do not exist in the same place. They just don't um you know he's been married the same woman 30 years i've been married divorced four times i did you know his thing makes sense to him and mine made sense to me but uh so i i learned i know how critical it is to have accountability i think you can tell also you know joe and i we're very open minded we have our experiences and out of those experiences we saw what happened when you have a closed mind those types of things so we're going to share with you some of the things that we do I want to read another piece because it makes me think about my experience with the steps and with some of the influences I've had in my life sponsors if you will it says a question is often asked why so much emphasis on confrontation I hope you have a sponsor who works with confrontation by the way I have it saved my life says the answer is because it's only through direct confrontation that the ego's concepts can be brought on screen or online in other words brought to the surface questioned and gone beyond if a teacher or a sponsor plays somebody's game or let someone get away with their unconscious self-deceptions because of a teacher's need or desire to be liked or popular, then the student unfortunately will get nowhere. Without direct intense confrontation students can and will only continue to act out their psychology. Why? Because that is all they can do I had the kind of sponsorship I was talking with Greg today and it was direct and succinct and to the point and Joe made I think a very valid point every one of us in this room is somehow connected to Bill and Bob correct well do you think anything could have got lost if you were 30 down versus five down? Yeah, I believe so. I think if you're going to ask someone to work with you, I think it's valid to ask them about their sponsorship lineage. Joe and I were blessed. There's four layers between me and Dr. Bob and the message out of the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. So when I first hooked up with a man who had a message of depth and weight that worked out of this book. There were some things that were made very apparent to me. One is I had absolutely nothing he wanted. Two, that this is what it was going to look like. Three, he was kind enough to take time and explain to me what willing to go to any lengths was about. Think about that for a minute. We do this all the time. We ask a new person, are you willing to Go To Any Length? And they say yes, right? They're saying yes, but they don't know what it looks like and we don't tell him right he didn't do that he asked me if I was willing to go to Lincoln I said yes he said well let me tell you what that looks like he said what it means Mark is we're going to go from the title page to page 43 of the big book we're gonna look at the forwards which are going to be general information then from the doc's opinion to page 23 33 pages of information we're going to look at you and what happens to you when you take a drink is this you he said we're going to find out are you a real alcoholic physically or are you just a hard drinker or a situational drinker and he said then pages 23 to 43 we're gonna find out if you commit the most insane act of your life sober and that is that if you experience what the big book calls a phenomenon of craving you lose control then the most sane thing that you'll ever do you'll do sober mark and that is you'll take a drink again, and is it possible you're not involved with that? And we're going to look at that. And we'RE going to LOOK at a thing called the spirituality of the unmanageability of your life. Then we'RE GOING to look AT the second step from way agnostics up through the ABCs. You'RE going TO have to come up with some concept of a power greater than yourself, and YOU'RE going To have to make a choice that that power is everything in your life, everything or nothing. Then the third step, Mark, you'RE goingTo have to meet a requirement. You convinced your life running your will cannot or will not work. Then you're going to make a decision to turn your will and life over to that power that you came up with the concept in the second step. And that decision is going to be about a four-part relationship, director, actor, principal, and employer. And then you're gonna say a prayer which is an affirmation of the decision. A lot of people think the third step prayer is the decision, it's not. It's an affirmación of a decision that I made earlier. And then if you're willing to follow through with that, there's no amen behind the third step prayer, we're going to get into inventory. And you're going to write a four-column inventory, resentment inventory. You're going make a list of people, institutions and principles. And then we're gonna write a fear inventory, Mark. Then we're gonna write his sex inventory and take a look at your selfish self-centered sexual behavior. And then when you're done writing all those inventories, you're gonna read all that neat stuff to me. While I'm reading it, I'm gonna have a pad of paper and I'm going to begin to make a listen of all these amends that you're going go make people to these people. Then we're done with that, you're going to go home. You're going to spend an hour in review. You are going to answer a whole bunch of questions and when you're done answering those questions then you're gonna look at the sixth step which is one paragraph long. Youre gonna answer two questions. You're not gonna work on your character defects. You not gonna do anything else. You gonna ask God are you willing to let him go? And then the seventh step you're gonna get down on your knees and say a prayer. That that power that you came up with in the second step take all you good and bad. And then there's gonna be an amen. Then we're gonna take a look at that eight step list you got plus us probably going to add a few things to it. And then, Mark, you're going to go out and make amends to all. A-L-L. All. You're going to pay all the money back. A, L, L. All the money back. You've got to go sit across these. You have to find these people. I don't care if it takes you 30 years. Are you willing to do this? And then if you get that far along, then we are going to start working on the disciplines of the 10th and 11th step. From the time you walk out of your door in the morning until you come home at night, you are going to learn disciplines of the 10-step. Then you're going to have to start working with prayer and meditation two times a day. If you're gonna follow the instructions out of the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. And then when you get done with that, God is going to put a whole bunch of people in your life to help. You won't have to go looking for them, trust me. They'll find you. And your life is going be disrupted as a result of that. And you're got to be a busy man. Are you willing to do all that of course my head's saying wait a minute there's nothing in there about a job a woman and nothing there's none of that right and he he goes are you willing to do all that he he always did something else it's it was always a good thing it's always nice to always remember the relationship you have with alcohol because alcohol was my master for 20 years so I'm faced with this question am I willing to go any length but I'm faced with that and die in an alcoholic death. And that was what I call a no-brainer. Yeah, I am willing to go to any length. See, today, at 20 years, I'm still faced with that question. I'm going back through the steps right now. And hopefully, God willing, I Am just about through with my first step experience. I'll probably talk a little bit more about that. Like Joe, you know, you well nothing new can happen i'm sure right in the last 60 days it is incredible to me what has happened because you start this process and this power takes you and the steps take you you're just along for a ride thinking you're somehow doing something with all of that but always remembering as i begin the steps again this year why I do it to improve conscious contact with God because the reason to work in the steps of the four steps says face and be rid of that which has me blocked from power. Joe talked about a phenomenon you can't beat it reconstruction of the ego in which your mind takes a valid spiritual experience in which you've had deep and effective conscious contact you develop great relationships with people you're at peace with yourself and slowly gradually over time your ego begins this reconstruction and we all know what it looks and what it feels like, you start to get just a little bit judgmental of the people in your group. You don't call your sponsor quite so much. If you're in a relationship the defects begin to take on neon lights and become more glaring day by day. You never really like this company anyhow because they've never appreciated you. Your sponsees are not showing you anywhere near the respect and consideration to which you are due. I mean, you know how it plays out. See when those things are starting to go on, I like to call that reconstruction of the ego. That's called untreated alcoholism, that's called the spiritual malady, and you must understand you and I cannot defeat our egos. Our ego takes the best of us. I don't care how long you're sober. It takes the very best of you and it'll turn you into what I just talked about, turn your life into misery. See I don't have to take a drink to die of alcoholism. I just got an email the other day there's a lot of old-timers in in the state of Texas and this email was an old timer at 31 years took a gun in and committed suicide. See if you suffer from untreated alcoholism you don't have to take a drink to die from it. And that's why I once a year resubmit to the first nine steps because in all the years I've been sober, I have not been able to not have reconstruction of the ego manifest itself in some way and that begins to lead to me being uncomfortable. Like Joe got sober in Denver, Colorado. Lived in Denver for about nine and a half, ten years. Had some great exposure to some amazing people there. Then wound up in Texas in 1991. Lved in Houston for a little while, Kerrville, Texas and Austin and I've been in Dallas coming on four years. Really, in terms of making this a way of life when I moved to Texas and to this little small town Kerrville that's when I really made a do a line the sand for lack of a better word and said you know I've given this my best shot at times what I've never been is consistent with making this a way of life. You know what I mean? Day in, day out, consistent, like the big book tells us to do. And I've suffered some pangs and arrows, I think, because of that. And so the line I drew in the sand is from this moment on, I'm going to be consistent with this until the day I die. And boy, I have been. And my God, what a rocket ride. Reworked the first nine steps four times in two years, incredible experiences. We'll talk about that. Made all my amends. I have no unfinished amends There's nothing in my consciousness that hasn't been cleaned up from my past. Every dime was paid back I was telling some friends, longest relationship I ever had outside of alcohol is with the IRS because of amends Lasted 14 years. As a matter of fact I was talking to a therapist who she's a friend of mine the other day and she said Mark I understand this is funny that that's the longest intimate relationship you ever had but it's also kind of sad but those amends have all been made it's all been cleaned up it's all done there's nothing behind me now like Joe you know you go through the steps as I'm starting through the steps when i get to nine there'll be a few last year uh i don't recall the number probably somewhere between 8 and 12 amends i fall asleep sometimes i don' t mean to hurt people don't mean to create harm but i do but it's a lot different than the first time where you had like 125 amends and 46 financial and family and all that kind of stuff and unlike dr bob and bill I lived in seven states. Matter of fact, I get resentful when I read the stories of the early members because they were born and raised in the same town. They made their amends in a day. You live in seven States you got some serious planning to do and a lot of trips, right? And I had to do that over many years. At 17 Years Sobriety I found the last two people on my original list where Joe and I are going to talk about that. We're going to talked about what it's like to experience in your consciousness there's nothing behind you. There's no harm that you haven't cleared up. And what that does to you being able to be present to the moment, how that removes you from fear, how that makes you more effective in every single area of your life, how it allows you to be more truthful with yourself, to have more compassion. We're going to talk to you about what that's like. Good stuff. so we've done a little bit uh with you all uh tonight how i would do it if someone said to me mark would you sponsor me uh that word's not in the book um we all know that so that i follow the instructions working with others i would have had a meeting with him then i would Have done with them exactly what i did with you tonight which is i would Have asked him if they were going to any length they would have lied to me and said yes so then I would have reviewed with them what that looked like and then I would have sent them home for three days to think about it. And I can tell you my experience. Out of ten people who asked me to do that, two call me back. They are never the two I want to call me back laughter They are never the few I want to call me back They are normally well you sponsor what you are. They're normally arrogant entitled, educated way past their intelligence with massive defense systems any given minute they can be very sociopathic and very self-delusional that's normally what I get Joe and I talked about that but I think you have a tendency to attract what you were like when you started this when I look at myself over the years that's the kind of people that I've attracted And I don't – if you have sensitive feelings, I'm not your guy. You know, I – I'm unusual for an alcoholic. I have a full-time job and I stay at it a lot. And so I get a lot of phone calls when I'm busy. And so, I have – I have few roles I follow, like particularly if it's someone new I'm working with. I have a timer by my telephone, and you better have one too because the maximum you're getting is seven minutes. I do that for a lot of reasons because when you're dealing with someone who hasn't done any work in the steps, all you're going to be dealing with is the chaos they've created with a life based on self-will. I'm not going to talk about that for very much. When I meet with them, I don't meet with him for much more than an hour because they're so toxic that you get physically sick if you spend much more time than that with them. But then I tell you what we do. If they come back and say, yes, this is what I want to do, I like to have them get a notebook and I like to have him write, on this day, I understand what willing to go down the links looks like and I am prepared to do that. And I have them sign it and date it. I also do that for another reason. They'll call whining about something and I'll say, do you remember on this day you agreed to and they go yes well shut up and do the work click see that man named big frank taught joe and i about keep the monkey on their back you got one in yours already see i've done that if you if you're sober for a while sponsoring people you've donethat right taking on their sobriety right taking on their sobriety. Oh, it'll kill you. You can't bear the weight. So that's kind of how I work with people in the approach.