Queens Big Book Study – Part 2 – Gary B. – 2008

Because our ego says, are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? You know, it's like a child in a cross-country trip. It's shut up. I'm just going to go through this and I'm going to shut up my own self. All right. How about this one? We couldn't make a living. We couldn't make a living. You know that picture that we see in our clubs and in some of our meetings? There's two guys sitting by the guy in the bed. We know what that picture is. Like, we can tell you everything about that picture. That picture is a brand new guy sitting in his bed and here's us carrying the message. What if that picture was that guy 10 years later? Please, God, please can we talk to each other just for a weekend? What if it's him 10 years later and he can't make a living? And his whole self-esteem is crushed and he doesn't know what the hell is wrong with him. That he just can't go in and do a simple job. Because if he's so sensitive, all it takes is one person to pipe up and he'll tell him to jam it. And now he can't make a living. Right? Please, can we talk to each other? I mean, that's all I'm suggesting. Now, maybe you have a job. Maybe you don't have a job. Maybe you're ashamed that you don't have a job. Maybe there's a solution in Alcoholics Anonymous. Do you understand what I'm saying? To have an entire psychic change. Okay, here's the second book. The second book I didn't read. Your God is Too Small. That's what the name of this book is. Your God is Too Small. Is there a higher power that might help you with a living? With misery and depression? We had a feeling of uselessness because we're isolated. We don't want to tell somebody, listen, I'm 17 years sober. And I don't know how to even go on. I don't want to go to your house and have dinner. I'm scared of you. These are the realities of alcoholism. Maybe we don't have all of these, but maybe we have one of them. And it induces shame and we're going to stop talking. But let's talk about drinking. I'm your man. We can talk about drinking. And there's nothing wrong with talking about drinking. And when you're new, that's essential. And reminder is also essential. I'm not trying to be a smart aleck about this. But I'm trying to keep you safe. I'm trying to keep you safe. I'm trying to communicate that this is a real disease. One symptom of which is this special relationship with alcohol. Other symptoms we're reading right now. We were full of fear. It doesn't say we have a passing acquaintance. You know that one, you know, my neighbor gets up in the morning and his car won't start and he calls AAA. I get up in the morning and my car won't start and I call suicide prevention. We were unhappy. How about that one? When was the last time any of us told somebody, you know, I'm really unhappy? I'm really unhappy. Why? Well, I don't know. It just seems so complicated. Have you ever noticed how difficult it is for us to solve our own problems? I don't know. I wish you knew all the Shoreline cases but I've never read them. Can you give us all the answers to solve them? But anyway, it seems such creating issues for me that it's though it was a blessing to be trying to handle this crisis before everything. It should be back later we're actually going to be part of George Bush东ue forこれ and that nothing is hidden yet I scuff be chose. But right now, unfortunately, myしま is not very thick. My soul started to dissolve. I signal for the thought that it may or may not, towards the end of my time, just jump out of it for no reason and say, we'll pack our things and fight here and there. I'm bringing some things in, just to share with you. You can't go anywhere without any information up to date because control our owned natures. It's so that newbie always 니ck it. Alright. idea. But it seems real to me. Okay. I know we have a lot to do. Okay. We couldn't seem to be of real help to other people. Besides that, who cares about other people? Right? You get in the jaws of the beast. I don't care about you. Where's mine? Two most dangerous words I ever asked. Where's mine? Okay. This program is for a solution, offers a solution for the disease of alcoholism. Is it that there are not other people who have, are prey to misery and depression, who have, you know, couldn't make a living? Pardon me. Yes, human beings have this. But isn't it interesting that they don't blink in offering us this laundry list? They didn't say some people have this. They say alcoholics have this. Maybe today you don't have all of them. The one that, you know, we couldn't make a living, that one is usually the one that seems to be the exception. And I'm going to read a couple other things. I truly am going to shut up here. Was not a basic solution. Oh, my God, is there a ray of hope? Was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was. Was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was. Was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was. Was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was. Was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was. Was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was. Was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was. Was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was. Was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was. Was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was. Was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was. Was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was. Was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was. Was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was. And I couldn't stop it. And it's embarrassing to live like that. It's embarrassing to violate your marriage vows sober. It's embarrassing to not be able to hold a job sober. I was so angry nobody wanted to work with me. They didn't want to be around me. When you can't make a living and you're the dad, and we had a little daughter, and I have a wife, and I can't make a living, and I'm isolated, and I'm screwed up, I used to come back from meetings, and I'd lay in the dark in my living room, and I would beg God to kill me. This pink cloud stuff, I don't know if it happened to you, but I didn't even get a whiff of it. You understand what I'm saying? So this is what I told George. I said, George, if God will help me, I will never, ever shut up about the second half of the first step. And I really thank you for your attention, for that long-winded whatever it was. Thank you. Thank you. We're kind of caught in a dilemma. I think we probably need to take another break. We pretty much agreed with Bill and all that we shouldn't go much beyond 10 o'clock tonight, because I'll need a nap. Why don't we take another break, but let's make an effort to be back by a quarter after. Would you please? Okay. I'm absolutely convinced that if I take alcohol of any kind into my system, it'll affect me bodily and mentally in such a way it'll make it impossible, for me to stop. And as I understand alcoholism, that's the key thing that separates me from any other drinker. Period. That's just it. Once I take it into my system, I can't stop. And that's about roughly, I paraphrased it, I didn't quote it to you, but that's about the last line in the book where it talks about the physical disease of alcoholism, where it talks about the first half, the first half of the first step. Pages 23 to 43 are all about the second half of the first step. That little mental twist that keeps us in such a state we can't stay away from the first drink. We can't keep ourselves from taking that one little bit of alcohol and putting it into our system. And Mickey just did a marvelous job explaining all of that. So that's on through page 43, and then we get to bit on the, on the, the devil, most that he just went through actually in the fourth chapter and seemingly where we've, we've started the second step discussion. Um, I just thought of something before I really, uh, touch on that. I wanted to talk about some second half of the first step stuff. It's one thing for us to read it and quote it, but let me tell you how it happens with me. Okay. Cause it's subtle. And then there's, there's some things that will go on in my mind, which can be confused a little bit. Cause you get on the third step discussion. It talks about us being driven with a hundred forms of fear and self delusion. And, uh, those things recently, um, if you will, the last couple of three years, um, Julia and I, this, this, okay, this will work for a second, uh, half of the first step stuff, even though it comes in the Al-Anon form. Julia and I effectively raised our oldest grandson the first three years of his life. And, uh, and, and, uh, we've madly loved him over the years. And, uh, when he hit about 15 or 16 years old, he, he, uh, took a drink and something changed in him, both model bodily and mentally. And, uh, he couldn't stop. And he couldn't do it. And three years later he was diagnosed with, uh, what do they call it? Juvenile diabetes. And, uh, and he's been working the hardest he could to hammer down as much alcohol and crack and everything else as he possibly could for the last nine or 10 years. And, and his feet are going, they're, they're neuropic. And, and, um, and, you know, he's going through all the pain and it's, it's kind of getting worse. And, uh, Julia and I had tried every four, five years to get through this. And, uh, we, we, we, we had a very, uh, very strong, uh, very strong form of, uh, management, non-management. Uh, we described it as having flunked Al-Anon 101. And, uh, and she, she went to Al-Anon with a renewed passion and, and blamed it on him. It wasn't me this time, it was him. And, uh, while I didn't go back to Al-Anon, I did pay attention. I took a fifth step with a couple of Al-Anons and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, uh, while I didn't go back to Al-Anon, I did pay attention. I took a fifth step with a couple of Al-Anons, uh, because I resented that guy, because, uh, I felt like he had, uh, taken advantage of my kindly and tolerant view of his behavior and shoved it right up my backside. But, and then the other side of that, I was still worried about what was going to happen to him and what was going to go on with that. But, bottom line of that right now is, uh, I picked up my, uh, 44th year token, uh, last Saturday, a week ago. Come on. And he picked up his six month token. And, uh, that's the longest he's been sober since he was 16, uh, by his own admission. And, uh, he was homeless. He spent the last year of his life in the hospital. He was in the hospital for a year and a half. And, uh, he was in the hospital for a year and a half. And, uh, he was in the hospital for a year and a half. And, uh, he was homeless. He spent the last year and a half or so in a garage. Uh, and then a heated garage except for a hair dryer and one of those little electric, uh, space heaters. And he got the attitude of the homeless where they were proud of that. Uh, and then, uh, last June, or, again, 4th of July or so, he, uh, no, June, uh, he seemed to be wanting help. And he was, he wasn't drinking. He had set the crack down a long time ago. He was, uh, he was, uh, he was, uh, he was, uh, he was a crack addict. He was a crack addict a long time ago. He's not a crack addict. He's an alcoholic. And he set it down long, but he couldn't stop drinking. But he, he, he somehow got the drinking stopped. And, and so we were helping him financially again. And, uh, and, uh, this time it was different. He was just doing what he needed to do and trying to work and do that. And it wasn't working. The feet hurt too bad to do it. So we put him in a boarding house. And, uh, didn't care. This was the only place he had a home. He had a house. He had a house. He had a home. He had a house. And, uh, he was there for a while. And then we brought him home. We couldn't afford that. It gets pretty expensive. And, uh, but he's doing good. And he's going to AA. And he's working with a sponsor. And he's going through the book with this, in, in the depth, uh, with his sponsor, which is Elliott, incidentally, Mickey. And, uh, and I'm staying out of his program. But the way I had to understand I was powerless to help him was going on inside of me. And, uh, I was going to go to the other side of the room. Where one minute I was so angry with him. I wanted to kill him. Let's just put him out of his damn misery. To the other side where, where, uh, uh, God just let us know what we can do. And of course it was nothing, uh, with that. But what, what that was, was, was first step. And the reason I know that. I can kind of give you a funny example of first step with me. And one of the root causes I have had as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, have had as a around my first step and the self-delusion is done with me. What's a dream, I had the other night. Stupid damn dream. And in my dream was a fellow I sponsored for a long time in AA. And he and a bunch of us were out in the woods, so to speak. In the mountains. And he was up on top of this big pile of snow. I mean, it was up there quite a ways, maybe 30, 40 feet. And he had put some kind of sculpture up on the top of the snow to do that, and he's trying to pose up there, and he's moving around at different angles, and there's supposed to be something really cool about this, and I didn't know what the hell it was. But all that collapsed after a while. And there were people taking it, and this all fell down. It fell down, and he went down with it. He was down there, and then you can picture him laying down at the bottom of the hill down there, and the snow's covering most of him but his head, and he's pointed downhill that way. Apparently he's unconscious, and we are all running over there to help him, and all of a sudden, we're just about there. The whole picture changes. There's no snow. The sun shines out. Pete isn't laying there, and it's all gone. Bug the hell out. I never remember my dreams. Dreams don't mean much to me normally. I just never do, and I thought, man, that's weird. And I got up the next morning, and Julie and I most mornings sit and do our morning meditation together. And I'm sitting there, and I'm listening. I'm trying to do this, and I can't do it. That stupid dream kept coming back in there. And so I said, hi, God, what's this about? If there's a message in this, what the hell is it? Is Pete okay? Oh, Pete's fine. And it struck me. I remembered thinking to myself when I'm running over there to help Pete how everybody was going to think I was so wonderful being the first one there to help him. Isn't that stupid? There's not an alcoholic in here that's had a thought like that, is there? It's all about self-centeredness, isn't it? It's all about wanting people to think we're really something. God, I wanted you to like me so bad. And that went on in me. It was my first step, trouble so bad, sober. Every time I'd write an inventory, that was this. My biggest fear is you just wouldn't like me because I'm not smart enough. I'm not rich enough. I'm not capable enough. Da-da-da-da-da-da. So anyway, I just thought. So that kind of shows up as me in various forms. In some ways more stupid than others. In some ways more dramatic than others. But it always boils down to me being the show. The whole show. The actor that we read about. And that we are. I love reading that portion of the book in the first person. And talk about that. And today, I'll look at the hundred forms of fear and self-delusion. Today, I'll look at the bedevilments. Having trouble with my personal relationship. I took a fifth step with Mickey and Marie and the people in the book. I wanted to kill my ex-boss. For what he was trying to help. And he was just irritating the hell out of me. Just today. Because he didn't respect me enough to stay the hell out of my affairs. That's the first step. You can't step away from it. So there better be a God. No. I didn't believe in God. I came from a family that lived out in the country. I was raised on an experimental farm outside of Cheyenne, Wyoming. I wasn't to experiment. I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't. And God wasn't mentioned in our home. I didn't come from a bad home. My dad was an alcoholic, but most nights he was there and most nights he was sober. But when he drank, something happened to him mentally, bodily and mentally, and he couldn't stop. And he did some really strange stuff that I thought was neat. I thought it was great because he was fun when he drank. My dad was 5'6", tall and weighed about 120 pounds. He had a small man's attitude. He was ticked off most of the time, lest he could drink. And he would change. And I liked him. I knew there was something magic in that. But he didn't like anything to do with God, lest the droughts got really bad in Wyoming. And they get really bad in Wyoming. And he'd go to the Mormon's house and ask them to pray for rain. And sometimes it rained. And God or Jesus Christ was a swear word in our house. And if you saw a big billboard at Christmas time of the baby, he'd snort and say, oh, shit. I mean, it just wasn't the hip thing to be talking about in our house. And so my first acquaintance in A. And the guy said, oh, shit. And the guy said, oh, shit. And the guys are coming into the meetings and the nut house and all that. And they were talking about praying in the morning and praying at night. A power greater than themselves. They weren't fooling me. I knew they were talking about God. And I don't know why I didn't fight that more. I really don't know why. I never. In my life, made a conscious argument against that. And that had to be a gift, didn't it? It had to be a gift from that one who loves us to just give me that. Because I never argued about that. I have put God in my resentment list any number of times. But it's never that I didn't believe he'd help me. Sometimes he just didn't help me the way I thought he should. Yeah. So anyway, it was out there. And people would talk about it. And I didn't know whether I believed it or not. And somehow I believed something was working for them. And I came to believe that there was a power out there that would help me because I watched him helping drunks in AA. I don't know any other way to explain that. I watched him help some real lunatics in AA. There were some crazy ones. I don't know. I was through the nut house and been through three years in the summer of college and had moved to Denver. And I'm hanging out in the young people's group. And they're starting to talk about this business of God. And I'm watching it. And I'm paying attention to it. Tom was a member of the young people's group. I'll give you an example of this. Some of you have heard me tell this story because I've been telling it for long. I'm sick of it. But I'm going to do it again. I'm going to do it again. Tom was talking about when he was a kid getting sober and having a tough time. He was just the craziest guy I ever knew. But he was having a tough time and he got locked in the Mount Airy, which is a very expensive psychiatric center in Denver. Isn't that a great name for a psychiatric center? Mount Airy for the airheads. And they had the aversion treatment there. Anybody here been around long enough to run into the aversion treatment? Well, not many. Well, it still goes on in places today. And it's a medieval treatment where he was in this hospital, in a psychiatric center, and they took him down to the treatment room. Now, the treatment room was just a room, you know, a picture room maybe 20 feet square. And on the walls. The walls in the room are mirrors and attached to the mirrors are shelves. And on the shelves are different kinds of liquor. In the middle of the room, there's maybe a barber chair that has a stainless steel pot that will swivel in front of, away from whoever's sitting in the chair. And they put him in there and they gave him some Anabuse. And they told him he could have anything he liked to drink. You know, there it is. Tom had that. And of course, Tom was a little bit more of a junkie. And he was a little bit more of a junkie. And he was a little bit more of a junkie. And the idea of all that is he drinks on top of the Anabuse. He gets very, very ill. Gets to watch himself throw up into the pot and his eyes cross and his toenails curl and all that. And the whole idea of that was you're just going to be so versed to it after that, you'll never take another drink. And when he came to the young people's group a few years later, he told us that it worked. He said it really had. He said he'd never had reason or excuse to take Anabuse since. And. But Tom was changing. And he just was. All of a sudden, he's talking about praying in the morning. And things are starting to work for him. He's holding his job. He'd make a 12-step call. And it had some effect. He brought a guy into AA. He 12-stepped while hollering out the window of the bus to an old drunk. He used to drink with him to the bars. And the bus next to him was in the same window looking back. And all he said to Art was, meet me at 1311 York Street tonight on the front porch. I've got something really great going on. Art showed up there that night. Art became a member. He was a member of the Denver Young People's group. Art went through this step of his life. And things just started happening for Tom. And Tom wasn't the only one. And so I came to believe that Paraguay and myself could restore me to sanity because they watched him do it with other people. And I didn't have to have any kind of theology to do that. All I had to do was there was something out there that apparently really loved drunks. And because he was helping them. And I really don't have much more to say about coming to believe for me. That was my experience. It wasn't a battle. And when I watch other people come into AA and want to fight the battle against God, or I ain't going to believe that shit. I'm not doing that stuff. Even they, when they stop fighting, come to believe that there's a power out there that loves us and will help us. And I've watched that for many years. And I don't argue with them if they want to. I just don't do it. I just say, man, I'm just telling you my experience. If you don't want to have an experience like I got, then go do something else. But if you want what I got, you better try doing what I'm doing. I don't have any other message to carry but that. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I want to remember one time, down on Skid Row in Denver. I don't remember the name of the place. A guy named John Adams was running it. Did you ever know him? John is dead now. And it was a, as I remember, it was kind of a day care for street people. And they held it in a room. held a late meeting down there just off of Larimer Street, Skid Row if you will. I had gotten teamed up with some people to help them try to start an AA meeting down there. That was an interesting AA meeting. It wasn't like one you normally saw because about a third or maybe more of the meeting were American Indians who were living on the streets or just coming through town or that sort of thing. It can get a little testy if you got three or four Indians in the same room and these three or four Indians come from three or four different tribes. You think we got problems not liking each other. The guy I'm in there with is a great guy. His name was Vince. I hope Vince is still alive. Vince at that time was a Chiricahua Apache and they didn't like anybody. Vince was several years sober. He and I are going to do this meeting and I'm watching these dynamics going on. I've been in rooms drunk and sober that are going to come apart any second, any number of times. It's not an unfamiliar feeling to me. Yet I've always come out of them whole. Since I've been sober, none of them ever came apart. So I always know I'm protected there. I saw Vince get up there and he's reading in the fourth chapter. He explains to them about Chiricahua Apache. He says, I'm going to go to the Chiricahua Apache. I'm going to go to the Chiricahua Apache. And he says to them W-Q-F-U-A.不用 I'm not going to say that. But I can say it is how I wrote. When he came to faith with me, I was a huge believer in the power of God. I knew Jesus was a God and I knew that. And so I became a Christian. I knew that he was the God ofaret and the 나는 С. But I didn't know I was his son. And so I ushere to faith with my tranquility. I just quieted the dumplings. Again, it's going to take God. It did for me. And then he says, it's just so quick over here on page 47. All you need to do is ask yourself this one short question. Do I now believe or am I even willing to believe that there's a power greater than myself? And he says, if you can say yes to that, you've pretty well taken it. We came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore its sanity. And he kind of made it real simple. And he just kind of laid it out there. And that tension in the room got quieter. It went on and then a couple of guys started to share and we had an AA meeting. And we came out of there. Now, I can't tell you about the other four guys. I just saw what happened in the meeting. And I walked out of there and I said, well, Vince was right. Vince explained to those guys before we started the meeting that they had to know that had Vince and I met in the bars before we got sober, the cowboy and Indian wars would have started over again. And I don't know that I ever saw Vince over two or three times after that. I don't know what happened to him. But I understand and I completely believe that that's all there is to the second step. Stop fighting and be willing to believe. The power of greater yourself can restore sanity. Your turn. Thank you. I came from a family. My father was an atheist. My mom was an atheist. My father had grown up in West Virginia and was presented. And with the alternative, he was very interested in the stars. And he showed that interest to his family. His family said, choose science or God. And he decided to choose science. He ran away at 15 years old and went out on his own and worked his way through college himself and then got a PhD in Johns Hopkins as a physicist. And so he was devoted to the proposition that man's mind was the highest place you could get. And so his message to us as children was that, you know, you develop your mind, knowledge is power and, you know, that's where you go. And he was also one of these people who was very, he objected to God. He hardly would say the word God. And it was really, to him, it was kind of a repulsive thing. And so I grew up with that kind of education, spiritual education. But I was the youngest of, actually, five or six children. One being our cousin, but five children in the family. And I was very, very isolated. I was isolated from my brothers and sisters. I was isolated from my parents. I was isolated from everyone. I even had a, I was in a large house with my own little section of the house, my own stairway. Everything was separate. And the picture I had of growing up was the family downstairs having a great time. And me sitting on the stairs, separate. And that was how I grew up. And so when I was given this proposition that I needed to find a higher power, it was actually such a relief. What they were saying is you don't have to do this thing alone. And just the word alone would make my blood run cold. And so together with, you know, who cares what together with meant, really. I didn't understand God. I didn't know what they were talking about. But together with was such a relief for me. And so I had been into pot, like I was saying. I had. I had been into pot. I had been into pot. I had been into pot. I had tried pretty much everything I could to immerse myself in booze and drugs to no avail, really. And my last semester of college, before my last semester of college, I went down to a rock concert in Macon, Georgia. And, you know, I was with some guy that I couldn't stand. I was smoking pot. I was, you know, I was just pretty much kind of going crazy. And some, I had not taken acid before. I didn't take acid afterwards. But a guy walked up and said, you know, here, take this. It's really good shit, you know. And, of course, I didn't know him. And the insanity looking back on it, the fact that I took it was, you know, I'm just appalled at myself. But, you know, I mean, it was the time. It was the place. And I said, sure. So I took it. So I went out and sat in a meadow. And evidently I was out there for about eight hours. And it felt like it was like 15 minutes. But what happened was this hand, this huge hand came down, unzipped my head, flipped it back, washed it. And I said, you know, I'm going to do this. And he said, you know, I'm going to do this. And I put it back, zipped it up, and said, you don't have to do this anymore. And, you know, I always get a laugh. I say, I know it was God, even though it was on acid. But the truth is that the fruits of that was that I stopped. It was so evident to me that that was the truth. You know, we recognize the truth when we hear it. And I said, you know, I'm going to do this. And I was not addicted. I'm not an alcoholic. It just, it was the truth. I didn't need to do this anymore. I was killing myself. And so I had hair down to my rear and I went home. And, you know, it was my symbolic thing. I cut all my hair off and stopped taking drugs. And I didn't relate to that experience as being God. I didn't relate to God necessarily. Because I truly, I had no concept of a higher power. I mean, none whatsoever. It was a word in the dictionary. God was just a word in the dictionary. So, but I felt the power. I felt this huge power and such relief that this was done. You know, Mickey was saying it's hard work drinking like that. Well, you know, it's also hard work trying to find that piece of the puzzle. And it's not working. And it's just wearing you out. So I went back to college for my last semester. And I had stopped taking drugs. So I really wasn't going to hang out with the same losers that I had been hanging out with before. And so I got a job. I only had a few credits left to do. And I got a job down at a restaurant. And I was a hostess. And at that point, Mickey came in. He was a singer. And I met him. And three months later, I was married. But in between, I have to say, my second experience with this thing called God was that I was driving along with him in the car. And we had only been dating for a very short time. And I was driving. And a voice said to me, this is the man you're going to spend the rest of your life with. And I was like, what? Yeah, you talking to me? And he repeated it. And he said, this is the man you're going to spend the rest of your life with. And again, you can sense the truth of something. And I sensed it. In our relationship, I had not planned to really take it any further than I had taken any other relationship. He was a good guy. But marriage was really out for me. And I think it got the ball rolling inside of me. I still didn't call it God. But I knew it would. I knew it was huge. I knew it was a power. I knew it was true. I knew it was real, what was happening. And as I began to, it began to brew inside of me, I was pulled in that direction. And when he did ask me to marry him, I intended on saying no. And it came out yes. You know? It was a big deal. It was a big deal. It was a big deal. It was a big deal. Not what I had expected. And that was only the beginnings of this experience of God. And he had a passion for God. And so in our relationship, he would share his own concept and his own experience and his own faith in God. This was even before he was sober. And he was a very good guy. And as he said, there was this real frustration between what he wanted to be and what he really was. But the excitement and the passion was really contagious. And it began something inside of me that had taken a new form, especially when I came into the program. We had been married three years. And when I came into the program and this was presented to me, I was like, I'm going to be an adult, I'm going to be a father. I'm going to be a father. And I was like, I'm going to be a father, and I'm going to be a father. And when I came into the program, all I had to do was just be a father. And it was presented to me that you have to find a higher power. I also didn't argue with that. It was, you know, there was no understanding of what that meant. And the growth into that belief was over a long period of time. But I didn't argue with it. I didn't, I knew the truth of it. I had experienced something. I had done it. something. And so when they said, you have to find a higher power, I was so relieved. I was so relieved. I think the only thing that has ever kind of given me real pause, well, no, there are a number of things that have given me real pause, but one of the things that gave me real pause was that each and every time I would turn my will and my life over to God in doing my third step or doing, you know, whatever in the program that I was told to do when I was, you know, doing it kind of mechanically, was that I would hear my father's voice. You know, this is stupid. How could you believe in a God, you know? This, and he had all of his arguments. And the wonderful thing was that I finally got comfortable with that voice and just letting him be. And at that point, I think it was, oh, well, I can't remember, 15 years into the marriage, I went to my father and I had to tell him that I had become Catholic, which was to him probably, you know, I've just killed someone, you know, just a horrible, horrible thing. And I think that was the most amazing thing for him to hear. But by that time, you know, I had worked through my own beliefs in a higher power and where was that taking me and how did I feel about that and, you know, how was I going to express that? And so I had to sit with my father for five days. My father, by the way, is a genius, was a genius, I'm sorry, he's dead now, but he was a genius and he was not just a genius intellectually, but he was a genius intellectually. And so I had to sit with him. And he was a genius in expressing words and debating. And I was a timid, very reluctant talker. So, you know, there was no way I was ever going to come up against him with any idea because he would win. So I really basically kept my mouth shut with him. And so I had been in the program for 13 years or 12 years, whatever it was. And, but I had to, you know, I had to, you know, I had to, you know, I had to have this experience of expressing what I believed without imposing it on him or, or making him truly understand, which he never would have done. And it was also one of my first real experiences with the power of God, because I had a lot of people that I had to talk to. And I had to, you know, I had to have I went into it and I knew it was going to happen. I just knew it was going to happen. And so I held on to God's hand so tight. And I said, God, you know, this is you. You know, this is about you. This is what you've gotten me to. And so you're going to have to give me the words. And, you know, I had been trained in Al-Anon. And, you know, when you have no idea what to say, ask God what the words should be. And they'll come out in the way that he wants them to come out. And so when I was telling my dad about my faith and that, you know, this was not a question. This was not a debate we were going to have. He, of course, began with, you know, oh, I've always taught my kids that you believe anything you want except this. And then he debated for five days. And I, God was so kind. And I felt his power so much in the serenity and the evenness and the detachment from his, you know, his assault. And I just. I just felt taken care of and I felt loved and I felt, you know, it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. And I came home. And just before I left, I said, Dad, you know, we're going to have to agree to disagree. And I love you very much. But, you know, this is not a subject open for debate. And I went home and, of course, fell apart at that point. You know, because, you know, you're putting all this energy. But what it did for me. Was it, in a way, it solidified my own beliefs. Because I had to really know where I stood. I had to really come up with. Because you can't, you cannot fool somebody when you're talking about God. You know, you can say, well, I believe this, this, and this. And if you really don't, they know darn well you don't. And you know darn well you don't. And so I had to really dig deeply into. Myself. This was one of the things that kind of gave me the sense that. There are no grandchildren of God. You know, we each have our own relationship. And I tried to really hang on to Mickey's coattails for a long time. He having a lot of passion for what he believed. And I wanted to kind of grab his higher power. And go. And go. And go with that. And to carry me through. It doesn't work. You know, you cannot just imitate someone with their higher power. You have to sincerely seek. And you have to sincerely find what you find. And talk to your higher power. So that's what I did. And I came to a place where I was even comfortable talking with my dad. And that is. And that is truly miraculous. And that kind of. To me that. You know, it says God's more powerful than my dad. And any girl knows that her dad is like so powerful in her own eyes. You know, in her eyes. I mean it's just. You know, we. We can't even imagine. Disagreeing or holding a different viewpoint. And my dad not only talked like God. He looked like God. He had white hair that was just. You know, wavy and. He was huge. And he had this big booming voice. And you know. And here is this little wimp. And I was, you know, standing up. And God held my hand. And it was just. It was an amazing progressive thing. And I wish that there was a lot of time to talk about God. Because I. The journey that I've had in Al-Anon. And. Has been a lot about. Letting my facade down. But. The way in which my facade has dropped. Has been the courage I've gotten from being a child of God. And. So his. His taking care of me through the process. Has been the reason that I've had. The courage and the. And the. Understanding. That I've had. The courage. And the. Understanding. That I'm okay. You know. That he really made me okay. And I. You know. I. I piled on a bunch of stuff that was inappropriate. And fears that I carried my whole life. And you know. I did all sorts of things with trying to manipulate my own image. But ultimately. The journey for me is about my God. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And when I did it I just. I really didn't even trust myself. I. I didn't. I didn't even door ride of myself when I preached. And I just slash around. I just. I went. I had a plastic truck. The little truck. That's not a plastic truck. So. That was like. That was like. Smokes. So I'd like to tell you this story. This is, you know, our lives are an adventure, right? I mean, they're an adventure. And when you're married, it's a co-adventure. And so what happened was we have three children. We lost two to miscarriage in the course of our marriage together. And all of that's an adventure. But that's standing together shoulder to shoulder and facing what God gives you in your life. So we had come now to a point where we had had two children and two miscarriages. And I told Marie, I said, I don't think we're done. And it like we at that point gets a bit strained. You understand what I'm saying? Because I have a part, but she does the heavy lifting. So. I said, I'm telling you in my soul, I don't think we're done. And I watched her figuratively go up on the mountain and talk to God. And she really struggled with this. And she came back and she said, OK. And on Mother's Day, two and a half years ago, our baby Peter said his first mass. And it was Mother's Day. And for a priest, they give they bless their hands with sacred oil. The bishop does. And then he gives a cloth that they can wipe the hands off with. And we didn't know this. But at the end of Peter's first mass, he asked his mother to come up. And he said for a priest's first mass, he said, we give this to our mothers. And they're. They're buried with it. And when they go across the river, they can say to God, I give you my son. Now. If you want to talk about this hand of God through a life and through an adventure, because it's not like it's all written in lipstick on the mirror. You know, here's what's going to happen. It's going to be like on 2010. Everything's in it. Whatever. It's not like that. So. We know what happened. As Marie shared with you, we know what happened to Peter. What happened to me? I got in Alcoholics Anonymous. And I lost my faith in the God that I came here with. And I was flipped upside down. And they told me I could have any God I wanted. So I wrote this weird thing down on a piece of paper. I wrote, I want a God who understands the connection between things. So already this hand is moving. Because what I mean, to give you an example, it's like I understand that from some research, whatever, that a baby laying in its crib looks up at its fingers and sees them moving, but it doesn't understand they're attached to a hand and that the hand is attached to a wrist and so on. And I looked at the world and at life and I thought, God, I don't understand how anything is connected. It looked like all separate pieces. It looked like a shotgun blast. And I'm sitting in the middle of this thing and I mean, I was devastated and I was upside down. And so that's where I started on my search for God. I went to mediums, astrology, Ouija boards. I almost became Jewish. I almost became Episcopalian. I almost became whatever, you know, face the wall, Mickey. I don't know. I'm looking, you know, I'm searching and I'm searching. But I want to tell you an experience I had. I was six months sober. I'm sitting on the steps of 1311 York Street, which is where I got sober. It's this Victorian mansion in Denver that somehow or other became an AA club. And it's a very urban situation. And so some of us washed up onto, you know, the shores of 1311 York Street and we called it the mother house. And I'm out there sitting there. I'm sitting there. I'm sitting there. I'm out there six months sober. And of course, you know, I'm running as much of York Street as I can get in my hands. And I'm 12 stepping this guy with a guy. Some of you may have known Bob. Oh, also from Denver. And Bob and I are out there whipping the game on this guy. I mean, we got this is the A stuff, you know, and he leaves. And I turned to Bob and I said, like, do we kill ourselves now or a little later? And this guy. He's a little bit older. He's a little bit older. This guy came by and he lived next door in this apartment. And I want to tell you the process of this. So I go, you know, and I'm following him because I'm not doing well. So we go over to his apartment and we talk about, you know, how am I doing with my first half of the first step? Then we go through the second half of the first step. And then we come to came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. Okay, Mickey, do you believe there's a power greater than yourself? Now, here it is. I knew that this was a program of rigorous honesty. I knew that this was a program of rigorous honesty. So now you're asking me this question with my life in tatters. Everything's on the line. And you ask me, do I believe that there's a power greater than myself? I said, no. I didn't say no to be a smart aleck. I said no to tell the truth. The guy knows his book. It's my business. And he goes, he knows his book. And so he says, okay, are you willing to believe that? There's a power greater than yourself. I said, no. Because like, what are you going to do cure me with fairy tales? You know what I mean? This is serious. And now you're going to tell me that like something's going to and I go no. And this guy looks at me again and he said Mickey. Are you willing to pretend that there may be a power greater than yourself? I said, yeah. He said that's step. Two. Let's move on. Not very sophisticated, but it works. It worked. And I got to walk down this road and you didn't kick me out. And isn't that like maybe some of our deepest fear that sooner or later somebody's going to turn around, look at us and say, you're just a fraud. Get out of here. But anyway. I want to read just a couple of things out of the book and then we'll put our heads on our pillows. I hope that we'll take this time this weekend to reflect on what does this mean to me? Maybe this the three of us didn't say anything that really sort of reflects your experience, but it doesn't mean or your intentions or your yearnings, but it doesn't mean that we can't go on with our lives and examine these things and we can do it this weekend. And, you know, the notion that we can go back through the steps and do this again formally, we kind of might get this opinion that's like a buff job. You know, we're just going to like polish the chrome and that's going to be a good thing. The same power that existed when we got here. That saved us and brought us to this room is available to us tonight. Do you understand what I'm saying? We can come out of this with a profound experience. And by that, I don't mean what an alcoholic hears is a profound experience, which is we're going to get drunk on it. I mean, we can have a life-changing line of demarcation in this weekend. But I just want to, I just want to fish for a second in the chapter we agnostics. I'm going to on the page 44 and chapter we agnostics the beginning of the chapter. To one who feels that. He's an atheist. Now they've gone and established the bona fides of an alcoholic from a chemical standpoint in the first paragraph. Then it second paragraph says to one who feels he's an atheist or an agnostic. Such an experience seems impossible. You know, would that we be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer, but to continue as he is means disaster, especially if he's an alcoholic of the hopeless variety, which PS. Is there? Another kind, but I don't know. To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis are not easy. Always easy alternatives to face. Which is really the truth of the dilemma of the alcoholic. It's like, yes, everything is crap in my life. But to live on a spiritual basis for me was like unacceptable. It's like I tried to. Not have alcoholism is how unacceptable it was. Because if I can not do this, I don't have this disease, then I don't have to walk this road. You know, I don't have to like have fairy tales because I'm I wanted to tell people you don't understand. I'm in real trouble. So I went over and I'm with my sponsor at the time. I said, let's he said, let's have lunch lunch with him and every spiritual thug in our group. I'm surrounded. I'm sitting at this table. You know what I mean? And this guy we call Big Frank was was sitting there. He was like the head thug. And, you know, and I'm saying, listen, boys. Turns out I'm not alcoholic. And and they go, really? And Frank says to me, there's a bar on the other side of the restaurant. Come on over. I'll buy you a drink. I said, what? He says, yeah, come on, I'll buy you a drink. I said it was like my butt was riveted to the chair all of a sudden and I go, I can't do that. And he said, why? I said, if I have that drink, I'll die. And he said, and you're not alcoholic. Oh, crap. Now I got to walk the walk and I got to go down this road. But it isn't so difficult. It says in the book about half our original fellowship were of exactly that type. At first, some of us tried to avoid the issue, hoping against hope. We were not true alcoholics. But after a while, we had to face the fact that we must find a spiritual basis of life or else. You know, it's this stuff is, interestingly enough, not optional. You know what I mean? Sometimes we get in here and we get so absolutely tolerant. Whatever is going on that we throw the program of Alcoholics Anonymous right out the window. There is one program of Alcoholics Anonymous. You can do it or you can not do it. And we don't tell each other to define that power and we don't debate it. But it's talking about find the power or die. Perhaps it's going to be that way with you, but cheer up. I love that. But cheer up. Something like half of us thought we were atheists or agnostics. Our experience shows that you need not be disconcerted. Now, listen to this one. If a mere code of morals. Or a better philosophy of life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us would have recovered long ago. But we found that such codes and philosophies did not save us. This is not an intellectual proposition. I had. 16 years. Of formal theological training. And I had a higher Mickey that really wanted to be a great guy. But the higher me wasn't winning. No matter how much we tried, we could wish to be moral. We could wish to be philosophically comforted. In fact, we could will these things with all our might. But the needed power wasn't there. Our human resources as marshaled by the will were not sufficient. They failed utterly. Okay. Now, utterly has no wiggle room. You notice that? It's not like three quarters. Lack of power. That was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live. And it had to be a power greater than ourselves. Obviously. But where and how were we to find this power? Well, that's exactly. What this book is about. I know it's late and I know that we said we were going to end at 10. If you'll allow me just a couple of more minutes. Because apparently I can't shut the front door over here. And I promise that within a couple of minutes I will shut up and we can go to bed. There's this. Prejudice we carry inside of us and this dogged determination to. To have some leverage in life. But don't give me this naked proposition. That I'm going to die ugly. Because we're all going to die. But I'm going to die ugly. If I don't buy into this deal. Well. My own track record tells me. That. I am going to die really ugly. If I don't get something in my life. So here comes this walk. Here comes this. Going back to the to the analogy of the guy in the dark room fumbling for the light switch. Now, interestingly, in the chapter we agnostics, it tells us. We don't have to understand electricity. To go over to the wall and flip the switch. Right. So nobody's asking us to flip the switch. We're asking us to figure God out. So. When I saw George that day to talk to him, my sponsor. About what was going on in my life. Here's what happened. I'm telling George. Now I'm cheating on my wife. I'm sober. Is well, I'm dry. I'm cheating on my wife. Nobody wants to work with me. And I'm massively suicidal. And I'm telling George this. And I'm not telling George this. And I'm not telling George anything new. And this is my cheese sandwich story. And I'm like over at George's apartment. George fought for three tours in Vietnam. He'd had all the war he ever wanted to see in his life. So he was studying to be a Methodist minister. So I'm over asking George if he can share his lunch hour with me. I got my cheese sandwich. I'm talking to George. I'm not telling him anything new about my life. I'm telling he's heard all this. And he said, you know, Mickey. And he says, when I got where you are, I got down on my knees and I asked God from the bottom of my heart for help. And he stands up and he says, and you can use my apartment. And he left. Now I got a half a cheese sandwich. And I'm thinking about this. George said he got down on his knees and he asked God for help. So I got down on my knees. I don't have an alternative to this. I got down on my knees. And when I got down on my knees, I realized I had no God. And my only prayer was this. I said, will somebody please help me? Sooner or later, the bullshit's got to stop. Am I right? We're not doing this for show. We're not doing this so we can talk about it at a meeting. In the privacy of our own lives, sooner or later, the bullshit has got to stop. And we've got to come to terms. And the gift and blessing of Alcoholics Anonymous, our society, is that you don't have to defend that to anyone ever. You come to terms with your higher power, that's your higher power. And we don't have to have it fully defined or explained to anybody. But there has to come a moment for us when we say, listen, I've had enough. I can't carry the weight anymore. I'm dying. Will somebody please help me? And that was my moment to turn to God. I would be remiss if I didn't thank Tom and Ginny and Lorraine for being so kind to us and to you, to inviting us to come and be with you. Because they told me if I would give it away, what was so freely given to me, I'd get to keep. And I really love you. And I hope that you sleep well. I hope we get the chance to be together again tomorrow. And I just love you. Good night.