Normal and Neurotic Alcoholics – Workshop – Glasgow Scotland – Part 2 of 8 – Tina W.

Is that one on? Yes. Okay, good. Okay, so we left off. We're going to do we're goingto float around to step one. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unmanageable. And I want to go back to that we were talking about Bill about you want to hear more about the intense neurotic type, the pronounced neurotic type. They're the most fun in AA but they're the most resentful as well we're going to take a look at the doctor's opinion now remember the doctor is now in the roman numerals and Bill's story starts chapter 1 but I want to point out when the first edition came out it was reversed the doctor was on chapter 1 page 1 and Bill was in the roman numerials and Dr. Bob was in the back that got changed later in the first edition because Bill realized something that was a shocker I want you to think about this. Our program of action is page 1 to 103, correct? Not 1 to 164. I mean the other 61 pages are great. But our program of Action is page one to 103. When the doctor's opinion was on page one, that meant we had a non-alcoholic in our program of action. And Bill changed that. people in the fellowship accused Bill of having an ego problem like they often did and they said Bill just wanted to be on page one that's why I don't listen to people's opinions very much without reconciling it in history because so many people have their own opinions including myself and that's what I say don't just take my word for it check out all this information if you're interested in it, if you need to you don't have to take my words for it but I promise you it's all in our approved literature the way I'm giving it to you I'm trying not to doctor it now here's one part remember I told you I would footnote it here's a footnote talked about the normal in every regard and the pronounced neurotic more or less here's the formula that I took out of psychology it's the only thing I'm going to bring in from a psychological background that's not in our literature Dr. Joseph Martin Father Martin who just passed away recently is who I got this from and he used it in his work called Chalk Talk but it's two forms I over E and E over I he's talking about people are born with one of two natures and that's the only kind of nature we got one of 2 the first one is born where their intellect governs their emotion and then there's another nature where emotion governs behavior or their intellect in other words intellect overrides their emotion and here emotion has a tendency to override the intellect now what does that mean well let's use my brother he's one of these guys he is normal in every regard before we do that I'm going to have Tina go through in the doctor's opinion Dr. Silver goes through a series of identification of characteristics of types of drinkers and there's five that are significant I want Tina to read through that if she would sure it says the classification of alcoholics seems most difficult and in much detail is outside the scope of this book. There are, of course, the psychopaths who are emotionally unstable. Hold it. Don't talk about me like that. My back was turned. Do you hear me? I'm raising my hand. Who are emotionally stable? We are all familiar with this type. Anybody here not familiar with that type? We are also familiar with the type. They're always going on the wagon for keepers. Any wagon keepers? They all making nozos when they're drinking? Oh, that's neat. Isn't the history of where On The Wagon came from? Do you guys know where that history of On The Waggon come from? It came from England. I didn't know that. When I first started coming to London, another AA friend of mine was one of the Queen's guards. And he took me on a tour of all the sites. And he took me from where they used to keep people that were condemned, that they were going to hang. And what they'd do is they would transport them from the holding station to the square where they were hanging them, and they would take them in a wagon. But something happened. One of the wagon drivers got drunk the night before, and they escaped. So they passed a law that if you were on the wagon, you weren't allowed to drink that night so you had to go on the wagon so you couldn't drink the night before because you was on the dragon on the waggon ain't that some stuff it has nothing to do with this workshop whatsoever go ahead had I not come to England I wouldn't have known that scotch whiskey no never mind it's your fault yes it is They are often over-remorseful and make many resolutions. Any over- remorseful people in the room? You don't understand. I'm so sorry. I'm very sorry. And I know I'm going to do it again. I know I'm going to do it again. I said I'm so sorry because I know I'm going to do it again. They are over- remorse full and make many resolutions but never decision. There is the type of man who is unwilling to admit that he cannot take a drink. He plans various ways of drinking, he changes his brand or his environment. Anybody identify with that? Go ahead. There is the type who always believes that after being entirely free from alcohol for a period of time he can take a drank without danger. There is the manic depressive type who is perhaps the least understood by his friends and about whom a whole chapter could be written ok I scoured the books and could not find a chapter to the manic depressive do you want to tell them what they edited out right there when the original manuscript came in from Dr. Silkworth to be put into our book he added another now remember Dr. silkworth had no bone to pick with us. He had no agenda. He was observing us and writing about us. And then Bill was doing the editing to make it tenable and palatable to our sick minds. Forgive me for that. Read that again. Manning's Presbyterian. Who is perhaps the least understood by his friends. Okay, right after that was another statement. He said, and the most fiercely resented by his own kind. I'm glad he took that out it's so true we're going to talk about that later on now I want you to know that chapter is considered to be the 12 and 12 because the essays in the 12 are all symptoms associated with Bill W's dilemma sober of which Dr. Bob did not identify and that's why he was so opposed to that essay being written. It's an amazing thing when I discovered that. Because my brother... Now, okay, I want to go through that. Psychopath types, they're overly emotional. And I wondered, how many times have you heard him use the word the type? I want you to know I'm kind of anal. I need to know. Any other people with the why problem? Why? Why? How many people have heard people say don't worry about why, just do it? I don't listen to those people. I don' t. I want them to know why. And I ain't going to be nobody's puppet. I want to know why. Now, I'm not going to drink to know why. I just want to learn why and I'm going to get the answers. And if I hadn't, I wouldn't be here with you folks today if I haven't found out why. And by the way, why can only come through action. You get to know Why by taking action. That's part that I didn't like so well. Okay. Why did Dr. Silkworth use the term type? Why didn't he just say the psychopath who drinks? Why didn't he just say the manic-depressive person who drinks? Why didn'The just say The person who Goes on the wagon for keeps So I investigated why he used the term type And it's because He was referring to The people who drink Who express symptoms that look manic- depressive But they are in fact Not clinically manic-depressive Now does that sound important to you? because I've been told I'm manic depressive and I need medication well I had it Budweiser the type that's unwilling to admit that type of in other words I'm really not manic depresive I'm not a psychopath like I thought I was the reason I was unconscionable when I came to AA had no seeming conscience that would stop me from hurting people I never felt bad about things I did and when I did get an inkling of a conscience I shut it right down they call those type of people not sociopaths because they're probably not coming back but a psychopath has a cycle of pathology I'm not a psychopath I'm NOT a sociopath I'm Not Manning Depressive an alcoholic who exhibits those kind of symptoms because of the effect alcohol has on my body. And if that's the case, stopping drinking seems like a solution. We're going to talk about that now. This is interesting. Now, you have Bill W. and Dr. Bob. Here's the difference between the two. Normal in every regard. Now, read that Latin out. There's one more type that we haven't read yet. This is in the doctor's opinion. Go ahead and read it, Tina. Then there are types entirely normal in every respect... Hold it. Stop there. What does entirely mean to you? I mean, entirely. That doesn't leave a whole lot of room for me to play with it, does it? Read that down. Entirely. Entirelly normal in everything. In every respect except in the effect alcohol has upon them. Go slow here. I want to go slow. They are often able... Able? intelligent I rode the short bus friendly that's me to the 10th power they are normal in every respect prior to picking up a drink in other words their emotions are just fine their thought processes just fine they're not obsessive compulsive impulsive excessive they don't live defensively and guarded and afraid they're going to be found out they're not splainers you know what a splainer is? that's when someone asks you a yes or no question you go right into an explanation they are able, intelligent, friendly people unless you put alcohol in them and then and then you have this type the type we call this the Bill W. type Now, this type experiences that when they're drinking. Now you know what the difference is between me and my brother? Is when I drink, I think I'm like this. The problem is, when my brother stops drinking, he goes back to that. And he's restless, irritable, and discontent. when I stop drinking I go back to that sober happy, happy, happy. Anybody relate to that? Anybody relate to that oh come on dare ya now here's how this looks schematically if you will this is my favorite part of the workshop because it really makes people sick if they're sick okay so let's do this by the way have you figured out this is all step one okay remember I got just that part from Father Martin Father Martin was a Dr. Bob type alcoholic this is deep as he went on this and I promise you I wouldn't have went any deeper if I wasn't desperate and had to there's a lot of people in AA that don't need to go any deeper than that Dr. Bob was one of them God bless him he was our anchor wasn't he he stayed there in Akron and didn't budge thank God thank God for my brother Dr.Bob saved my brother's life my brother is nauseatingly normal ok here's a cycle that is being medicated in my opinion as a non-expert epidemically in America here's my brother he has a normal range of emotion he was born that way now in the 12 and 12 Wilson was given some information by Dr. Harry Thiebaud one of the most first psychiatrists to admit we could help where they couldn't now Dr. Yoon And he didn't admit that because AA wasn't in existence yet. He said, go pray. That's all he had to throw at him. But by the time AA was founded and got around and got inexperienced, Dr. Harry Thiebaud said, this thing works. We can't touch them. This works. My brother, there's a thing called natural emotional buoyancy. what that means is that when I'm born I have this automatic ability to adjust to life without any help at all in other words once I'mborn I just begin to grow and if my maturity takes place if my evolution takes place in the same family healthy normal I probably won't end up neurotic and I'll just do just fine if I'm in an unstable home I'm going to be a little bit neurotic ain't I That doesn't make me alcoholic, it just makes me a little bit neurotic. However, if I'm born this way, and then you add neurosis to it, whoopee! There's a difference though. And here's something I didn't know. I didn' t know why I couldn' t stop my emotions. Have any of you ever started crying and just can't stop? Or needed to cry and wouldn't start? your mind starts to race like mine did and I can't stop it it's like a human Rubik's Cube and there's like 34 quintillion options and it spins all at the same time I get one thought it's just like my presence in a room is like a fart in the wind you can't really locate me but you know I'm in the area and my emotions are like a broken Maytag washing machine there's no normal cycle and I'm stuck on agitating spin my brother has natural emotional buoyancy is it not fair to say I'm qualified credibly to talk about my own brother my brother without alcohol in his body is able, intelligent, friendly and does just well he's self-sufficient he's successfully self-reliant. As long as he doesn't put booze in his body, he hardly ever doubts himself. He has faith in himself. He's not centered on himself. Unless he puts booze in that body. Here's what happens if my brother gets happy. He goes up. But he knows something I don't know. He's just not staying there. I think we're supposed to just keep going. He knows. Like when he meets a girl. He understands infatuation. I think it's love. And when he meets her, he gets about here and then all of a sudden it starts to fall. And he doesn't think anything about it. He knows it's time to go on another date. I think she doesn't like me anymore. And then when he gets down here, he doesn'T take a dip. He just goes right back to normal and they get along and he ends up married. And as long as he doesn't pick up a drink, he's good. And when he got disappointed in school, I couldn't believe what I'm seeing. He would go like this, like anybody would. But he doesn' t flip out with this either because somehow he knows it's going to end. Has anybody ever thought, this is never going to end? It's only going to get worse. And I like company when it's gone bad. And then without any help at all from anything extraneous, my brother goes like this. Zips right back and doesn't worry about it. And he's calm. He's not filled with anxiety. Then there's me. I've seen him been born down here. Already depressed. And I'm five. And I've been kicked out of kindergarten for biting a teacher because she said sit and I'm thinking I'm not a dog there's something wrong with me and instead of I'm already going down and I got no brakes once the teacher looks at me funny oh I'm down and then I see my first love Myrtle they called her Myrdle the turtle but I thought she was cute oh my god I love you that was the first time I saw her she didn't talk to me so then I met Mabel and then she said hi and then I didn't know but I think I'm going to stay here now. Because that's love. And then Mabel apparently didn't sit at my table. And I saw her look at another boy. Just a glance. That was it. I hate her guts. And I'm killing Bob because it's his fault she noticed him. I hope you don't relate to this but I bet you do. there's something wrong with this guy it's like my whole life is like that I know I'm being really dramatic but it's accurate and I can't tell nobody because I don't know this is going on and this is sober I saw her come in the room she knew nobody's had a crack at her yet no sponsor might hope to get up there and then somebody gets her I'm your sponsor you know here's something interesting I drink alcohol now here's what separates me from the average drinker I didn't know this in a doctor's opinion And Dr. Zilkworth says that men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. And for most normal people, here's the effect. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, Here's my brother, and he's going along just fine, and then he has a drink or two, and if they, let me use my sister, I beg your pardon, my sister's not an alcoholic. My sister is just like my brother. I overeat. my sister takes a drink and she starts to feel the effects because alcohol is supposed to do one thing and one thing only biochemically it's supposed to sedate us and it does if you're a normal drinker so right about one and a half drinks my sister says something really stupid like I better slow down after one and a half And I say, why? She says something that almost breaks my head. She says, I'm starting to feel it. What the hell does that mean? Starting to feel It. What do you mean? She says well I feel like I'm starting to lose control. No, no, no. You're supposed to be getting control. You've got to drink past that. You've gotta have three or four quick. And she doesn't. And by God, she comes right back up. Because alcohol does for her what it's supposed to do, and it does that for 9 out of 10. But Dr. Silkworth in the book Alcoholics Anonymous says, in line with the allergy of the body, the obsession of the mind, alcohol creates an abnormal reaction that takes place in me and my brother. Alcohol is supposed to be able to do this. And in fact, it does physically. However, it also produces simultaneously an unusual effect. An elevating one. How many of you have had that? Where you take a drink and you get so good looking you can't stand it. You get so smart you can do surgery. You get such a good look at yourself. You get to be so smart, you can outrun police. Have any of you ever tried to outrun one of those bobbies or those policemen out there? you just knew you could outrun them didn't you and then they surround you and then you think you can take them that right there is why I drink is because I want that unconscious effect produced by alcohol it makes me feel like this here's my brother here's what happens when he drinks cause he has an abnormal reaction too or he wouldn't be alcoholic he has a normal reaction too When my brother takes a drink, here's what happens to him. He goes like this. He loses emotional control. He begins to be like I am, sober. It's about time. He'll cheat on his wife. He'll rob you. He'll cheat at work. He'll lie. He'll connive. He'll manipulate. And then he'll get sober. he'll be remorseful he'll apologize and promise never to do it again and as long as he doesn't drink he won't because when he sobers up you take away alcohol and he goes right back to that only now he's had the taste now his whole mission in life is to find a way to just have two because he has the allergy to alcohol the phenomenon of craving and an obsession a single obsession a single obsession I want to drink like normal drinkers why can't I I just want one or two and stop because he somehow knows when he has more than one or 2 he's going to act like that he's a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde isn't that in the book now there's me I need a drink I'm out of my flipping mind I've got so much emotion I want to share it with the world It's all about me Me, me, me Okay I take a drink Here's what happens to me According to Silkworth I begin to sense Normalcy I fit in my skin I have a reaction to alcohol that is so powerful there ain't no power on this earth going to stop me from drinking it not a one I didn't know that see my obsession take away alcohol and what happens to me I go back to being intentionally neurotic only now I've had the taste I've got the effect and I'm more intensely neurotic than I ever was before sober and now I have to drink for two reasons one I just want a drink the other one is I am so intensely neurotic now that I begin to feel all the time I don't fit in I don' t belong I don´t feel a part of I´m left out anybody ever felt left out? I can´t take that and yet that´s how I felt I swear to God at five it was an unconscious sensation just my skin I feel like I was born in someone else's skin and I compared myself to everybody else at all times anybody else? and no matter who I'm looking at I hate their guts or I try to kiss their butt one or the other I turn into a people pleaser an approval seeker and I do something I didn't know I did I began to develop what we're going to talk about maybe later tonight but for sure in the morning I began to develop and apply what Bill Wilson talked about I began to develop faulty emotional dependencies, I began depending on people places and things to protect me to provide me with self esteem to provide me with self-assurance, to provide me with self-respect. I had no idea that had to come from me and only me. Oh, you could help support it, but I didn't know that you couldn't give it to me. So the problem with that is, and we'll talk more about that in a little while, the problem with depending on people placing things too much is that then I got to dance to their tune because now my life depends on their approval and you know I see that happening before AA and I'm going to tell you what I was locked in it in AA too and that's an ugly place to be Bill Wilson we're going to read that right before we close where Bill Wilson says oh he did say it it's a hell of a spot literally and I had no idea that it had to do with my nature I was born with we're gonna talk about it first thing in the morning we're Gonna Talk About It Because Probably In My Opinion the most critical aspect of this workshop. We may actually talk about it tonight. Okay. Let's see. Okay, don't fit in. I feel left out. I wonder what's wrong with me. Here's how I feel. I didn't know this. Is any of this new information to anybody? This is really interesting. Like I said, I'm not an expert. This is just me. God forbid, but it's me. Aren't you just happy? I'm glad when she met me we were down to three of me okay now I got to tell you having a privilege to come here and share this stuff saves my life because every time I see it I think oh my god that is me I'm satisfied allergy to the body obsession of the mind and a third component that I don't know about over here in the UK but in America we're under siege, in my opinion under siege by the experts who are telling us what alcoholism is regardless of what our big book says and regardless of what our history says remember history, isn't that the most important thing we got. Don't we gauge everything? Stock market, we just don't listen sometimes. Political systems, we just don' t listen sometimes because of money, power, property. We are not the only ones besieged by the urge for money, power, and prestige. We're going to talk about that tomorrow morning, how what we have is not just universal to us. What makes it alcoholism is when we drink, it seems to fix it because it's not supposed to do that. Alcohol is not supposed to make me good looking or anybody else, neither I mean, I was at a bar a few times when she got good looking too and it wasn't even her but she sure had long hair I'll tell you and I ain't going to tell you how I found out, neither Didn't we see them in Soho last night? Oh, we did! Oh, I had one winking at me in SoHO but I told him it was Mark I had we had a kid with us from Washington D.C. it's funny he's in our group, our AA group back there his name is Sean D he's a lawyer got four degrees, way too smart for his own good and he's an SEC he's the Stock Exchange Commission Investigator we took him to Soho and took pictures and he says Wayne that one there is cute I said let me fix you up because I saw she was packing extra equipment. Tried to help a fellow out. Give, give, give. Tina says you're such a giver. And then she found someone else at the moment. Has nothing to do with this workshop. Okay, allergy, obsession, times two. Oh, I know where I was going. in the US in the 1950's a lady named Marty Mann first woman sober very influential lot of money a lot of political influence she noticed there wasn't any women getting sober or staying sober she wanted to find a way to take what we now know is not a moral stigma but a social stigma because women didn't want it to be known they were alcoholic now some people today will tell you it was a moral stigma are you listening? this is critical it is not a moral stigma it's a social stigma nobody wants to be alcoholic especially women back then because they were judged fallen women which I never met until they were already standing up in the you know what I mean Marty Mann this is critical because it changed the success rate in AA it just did and I'm going to tell you why in my opinion AA is growing in leaps and bounds in the UK for the contrary reason that we are now not growing in the US we're in the first decline in our history and it's been going on for about 15 years now this is my opinion based on my investigation Marty Mann politically a heavyweight lobbied the AMA said you know what if you guys will find a way to call this a medical disease we can get women to come in and that sounds virtuous doesn't it doesn't sound like it's got any backlash to it so the AMI took the pathogenesis of alcoholism like drunk driving and other things and manipulated those symptoms to meet the pathogenesis of a medical disease and they called it a disease concept alcoholism is not called a disease, it's called a disease concept they have conceptualized alcoholism as a disease in that regard it's the only disease you're going to hear of as a concept and in America they'll always refer to it as the disease concept of alcoholism. And that allowed her to get women to get over the social stigma of being a lady drunk, and they started coming into AA. And you know what? It looked really good from the 50s to the 80s. Treatment centers began... Now, it's going to sound like I'm against treatment. I'm not. I'm just giving you some facts. From the 50S to the 60s, from the 80S, treatment began to unfold in the U.S. It's a multi-billion dollar industry. Three million people are being treated in the U.S. every year. Three million. And they're all being sent to AA, and most of them aren't alcoholic. Most of them are drug addicts. Because insurance no longer pays for alcoholic treatment. They only pay for dual diagnosis. Do you hear that? They only pay for dual diagnosis, a mental illness plus an addiction. But they no longer treat alcoholism itself. So starting in the late 80s, everybody now is being treated. And since 1990, it became dual diagnosis and addiction. As a matter of fact, what Marty Mann developed led into a program called the NCA, the National Council on Alcoholism and it thrived up until about 88 then it got changed to the NCAA National Council on Alcohol Abuse and Addiction now it's dropped an A National Council on Addiction and Abuse there's no alcoholism anymore what's that mean to us I'm not bringing this up to make a political argument it's so the rest of the workshop hinges on how the disease concept got me here's how it goes if I have a disease the world treats me doctors therapists psychologists nobody holds it against me nobody holds me accountable I have a disease are you following me where that's going have you noticed that I'm not being judgmental but have you notice that in your meetings where people talk more and more about I've got a disease, the disease is doing push ups my disease is talking to me not taking personal responsibility anymore the problem with that is it's not that I'm judging them the problem is they're going to drink again someday probably because if I don't take responsibility for my problem how am I going to treat it because I'm the only one that can and when this started now AA is growing and then all of a sudden we peaked and now we are going down faster than we were growing in the US conversely in the UK is Germany part of the UK? what is that? huh? oh I thought Europe and UK was the same thing I'm from America cut me a break ok UK and Europe Germany, Russia AA is on a steady fast climb you guys are having more success than we are do you know why? you haven't been counter influenced by all the treatment programs we have it hasn't hit you yet but I promise you it will and I hope this wakes you up to it so when they start coming in here you're armed with the facts about the condition you might be able to help some of them not fall victim to the side effects because I can't tell them I don't even try to talk nobody out of nothing I just give them the information and they get to consider it and believe it or not it's none of my business but this is America USA I'm not putting my country down, I love my country but I've got to tell you something I wish there was something we could do about it and we can't there's too many treatment programs throwing too many non-alcoholics in the air so what we have to do one by one, little by little I stand up and do my part in AA that's what I do that's why I still do this workshop I'm not putting down treatment I'm just stating a fact there's in Southern California in Southern California alone there's approximately 58 treatment programs and 380 sober living houses that put an average of 4 people in a 1 bedroom they put four bunk beds in a room and charge them anywhere from $8,000 to $1,000 a month rent and say they're helping them it's become all about the money that's just my little note for the traditions I'm glad we're not about money we have to keep money out of this thing so why is that important all behind the disease concept because I'll tell you what if it wasn't a disease there'd be about 10,000 less treatment programs and we would get to do our 12-step work again. And we would not be like this. We would be back and New York is trying to find a way to alter that right now. RGSO, we're trying to figure out how to find the way. As a matter of fact, this is the first time in the last year they've come out and acknowledged that the treatment influence might have a part of the problem. It's the first times. This ain't meant for brag. Don't take it wrongly but I'm going to write New York every year for 10 years saying we're in trouble in this regard. And last year they finally came out with a little side note. It was sent out to all the GSRs that part of the problem might be that we're not, of course they blamed us, maybe we're now making the transition for them. The truth of the matter is, and here's something I want to really get into and then we'll move on. I want it finished. I want you to step one a little more. I'm not confusing anybody Is this confusing? Is it crystal clear to you? Here's the deal You see I went through treatment I'm just telling you I went though treatment When I left treatment Everything I need to make it in AA Was gone Not their fault It's inherent Now treatment centers in the US will tell you They have an 83% success rate Well this workshop right now we have 16, 18, 19 people well, 18 and a half I'm going to suggest to you that at 10 o'clock tonight when we quit we are going to have 100% success nobody's going to drink before we leave that's how treatment gets their statistics 83%, do you believe 83% stays sober for the rest of their life out of treatment? not a chance here's what it really is about 1.5% of people who go through treatment attain long term uninterrupted recovery now how many stay sober in AA? what's our statistic in AA this is our statistic and it's the only one of alcoholics who came to AA and really tried 50% got sober at once and remained that way 25% sobered up after some relapses and among the remainder those who stayed on with AA showed improvement I think that was Bill's optimism how much is that? do you know what most everybody out there in the earth world would tell you that's a bunch of crap that we can declare 75% success rate but what's the critical component of that statistic of those who came to AA of those who came to AA and really tried now who would really try unless they believe down here that they suffer from alcoholism I guarantee you I've had some symptoms of cancer I know, I told myself that I had a bump my god that might be cancer anybody else ever do that start getting spots tuberculosis I've been a self composed doctor so many times but I'm not going to go get chemotherapy unless the doctor diagnoses and shows me proof I have cancer I'm now going to start injecting myself with insulin like my dad had to unless they can prove through testing that I'm diabetic here's a good example it's going to play right into this my mom, God rest her soul my mom was a German woman stout, big tough, my dad was a 6 foot 3 250 pound truck driver over the road ran illegal whiskey and cigarettes out of Chicago for the mob tough guy, he's a tough guy I was the sensitive one he called me gay I thought that meant I was happy because I wrote poetry I do pretty good too don't I he didn't like that I wrote poetry he put a gun in my hand said you're going to learn to fight and I want to put a pencil in my hands and write poetry so I learned how to fight and then I wrote Poetry because he couldn't take me so where was I going with that before I got sick my mom my mom could whip my dad's butt my mom was tough she had tattoos on her my mom always all tatted out that was before it was popular for women they used to call her a painted lady once she stood about this big 200 pounds, no fat just solid rock and she would send my father to the moon I thought it was great and where did I go with that? if I don't really need to cancel oh boy see how far I my mom got diagnosed with lung cancer now here's this woman who just never give in to nothing two or three packs of cigarettes a day her whole life, drank whiskey with my dad non-alcoholic, she drank a fifth of whiskey a day for 20 years I would have bet you money she's an alcoholic but when my dad joined AA and stopped drinking my mom stopped abruptly just like Dr. Sofort talks about went through some shakes because you can't drink a fifth of whiskey every single day without having some withdrawal from the dependency she developed and then she normalized and drank one or two drinks at a time for the rest of her life she never ever drank more than two drinks again and wasn't controlling it she just wasn't alcoholic and then She developed a funny cough and I bet if you know anybody that ever had lung cancer you know what cough I'm talking about She had a funny coughing I heard the cough because I have pleurisy and when I get into heat and humidity I develop a wet cough and I could drown in my own lungs if I stay where I'm at. I've got to get out. My mom had a cough like that, only it got my attention. I thought, well, I wonder what that is. And I mentioned to my mom, Mom, what's that? And she said, I don't want to get gross. She was starting to cough stuff up and then she saw blood in it. And based on the fact she smokes two or three packs a day, she's been healthy as an ox up until a year ago, she's starting to lose weight, she's got blood in her sputum, she's Got a funky cough. based on those five things she went to a doctor the doctor listened to her lungs took down the facts of her report and by the way her symptoms were reported accurately she didn't minimize or exaggerate like I would have the doctor took her in well he didn't but his staff took x-rays of my mom's lungs and then called us back in a few days later and he said I've got bad news sat my mom down now I'm sober I mean I'm sober a few years and he said Mrs. Butler I got bad news for you he says you have lung cancer and it's advanced and I heard my mom take a deep breath now I am wondering what she is going to do ok the doctor showed her the test showed her the x-rays showed her the tumors in her lung and said we we have no not a lot of hope here now I am sitting there I don't know what to do with this information how do console your mother I'm the kid so I'm sitting there I think I'm going to call my sponsor well we didn't have a cell phone yet and based on that information and her own self awareness my mother believed what the doctor said and she was devastated she was what she was desperate she was made desperate by what her symptoms and the doctor's tests she was made desperate and what did that desperation make her? willing to go to any lengths the doctor was about to send her on my mother said what are my options says we can take the lung out what are our chances remove lung her chances are 30% we can give you chemotherapy and radiation we can throw everything we got at you what are my chances 30% that she'll live 6 months what are my chances of living a year 10% if you do everything 10% if you do everything surgery, chemo, radiation do the works take the lung out what do you think my mom said what are we waiting for my mom was made desperate she wanted to live she was made willing by the symptoms and the doctor and the tests and the acknowledgement of her condition she was 100% willing to go to any lengths to have hope just hope 10% in my mind quit what the hell is the point that 30% would have said quit I was ready to quit when he said you got lung cancer I'm getting tired now because now I'm thinking about me what am I going to do without my mom she's not even dead yet my mom said let's get started and by God she did and I cannot begin to tell you what I watched my mother go through and she died 6 months to the day she never had a peaceful day in my mind but when my mom died by the way when I get emotional like that I develop some kind of cough isn't that interesting we're going to talk about that that's something that's being eradicated from AA thought today psychosomatic disorder That's what it is. We'll talk more about that tomorrow. My mom died six months to the day. And before my mom died, I asked her. I had to. I'm an idiot. No, I'm kind of. I'm SOS. I'm stuck on stupid. I said, Mom, was it worth it? I don't know. Because I'm thinking I'm going to get cancer. I smoked four packs of cigarettes a day for a long time. I said. Is it worth It? And she said every single bit of it was. She says, because the only thing you've got in life is hope. And I thought, you want to be my sponsor? She died six months into the day. Well, for me, that's personal and it's critical. But what's the important part? When I left treatment, what was taken away from me? The desperation necessary to be willing to do what you tell me to do. Thanks, I got it now. I'm fixed. that isn't what they told me that's what I heard so when they told me what I needed to do in AA I said what and I called my counselor and my counselor said no no no that's too much you need balance so I told my sponsor and he said balance yourself with a new sponsor then I'm not blaming treatment I'm telling you they don't really understand our illness and some of the people who work in treatment that are recovered They don't either because they've only been sober a week before they become counselors. That's just the truth. They get sober? I know. You're looking at one. I know what I'm talking about. See, when I went into counselor training, I had two years of sobriety. Two years later, I'm a professional counselor. But all my development in AA stopped immediately because I wasn't doing my own program no more. I was learning how to tell you to do y'all I'm not blaming them this is just what happens doesn't happen to everybody but we're going to talk about tomorrow morning how I'm going to prove it doesn't happen to anybody except those that are predisposed and are vulnerable to this type of alcoholism the pill W type the type that I am vulnerable to ego feeding proposition I am favorable and susceptible to faulty emotional dependencies on people, places and things to feel good about myself. In other words of my own self I don't have the ability to feel good about myself. You can put me in all therapy. You have me do all the positive affirmation push ups you can. They put me on mirror therapy. Anybody else? When I left treatment they gave me a 30 day therapy. Once you get up every morning sneak up on your mirror and say I love you Wayne. every day for 30 days and at the end of 30 days you'll love yourself so for 29 days I got up and lied I love you no I don't so for 30 days I told them I was doing it on the 30th day I did it I laughed, quit, didn't work they meant well I'm being glib but that is not a treatment for alcoholism I mean, it's a great treatment if your only problem is low self-esteem. But I have a reason behind my low self esteem. That is not the problem. And here's where I want to go with this now. Okay, so the statistic, and then remind me to go where I was just going. Right? The statistic, 75% of those who came to AA and really tried, because we're getting 3 million people a year, most of them not even alcoholic, that aren't desperate. That's why they won't do what we want them to do and that's why they won't honor our traditions. They're not desperate enough to conform. And so, there's only one thing that can make them... I beg your pardon, there's two things that can makes them desperate again. Going back to drinking or the steps. Working these steps will make them desperate. Desperate again. Another problem. Most people who come out of treatment are already past their fifth step. How are we going to get them desperate if they don't need to do the steps no more? I manipulate them. I mean, I adjust them myself. Okay. Let me button this up for you so you're not as confused as I am right now. Where was I going with this, Tina? What's the problem? Self-esteem is not the real problem. Okay. I wish I had low self-esteem. I really do. I wish I had no self- esteem. Problem is I got no self esteem I have no identity of my own I didn't know that Anybody else? I didn't know. I had no identity of my own. I didnít have to work on low self-esteem. I had to work an identity. And the problem is you really canít because weíre dealing with something that we talked about in the first session and there, itís unconscious. And weíre doing it. Iím dealing with some allergy to the body which means when I put alcohol in my body my body is sick. I believe my body is diseased in regards to this alcoholism in my opinion let's do this let's draw a boat just because I was in the Navy we're going to draw a sleek sexy boat we're gonna call it the SS Wayne B I want you to know I'm the captain and I'm the crew and I don't take orders and I don't trust radar and now here in the open sea I see something, I'm not quite sure what it is but I'm no asking for help I got it it happens to be an iceberg but it's not a big iceberg I could probably get around it and if I'm in a bad mood I'll just go through it, it's tiny and I don't have to trust maps and history and stuff because I think I know better radar says it's going to be a problem shut it off what sank the Titanic? the part you see or the part you don't see combined with poor craftsmanship a weak foundation when you combine those components you had a sank ship but it was not this part that sank the ship but that's the part they saw and therefore that's the problem I'm going to suggest you that that's how the world sees alcoholism DUIs self esteem work problems familial problems any others? financial problems legal problems divorce problems child, I could go on and on couldn't I? Aren't those the problems that most of us actually try to treat? Because that's what we think it is. And Bill Wilson said it himself that's not the problem the problem is the unconscious the part that no human being can see to treat the part that's not even being treated in most meetings today because we have innocently been shifted from a spiritual malady to a disease concept. But I believe for me that this 10% is the disease component. Why? Because these are alcohol related problems aren't they? Physical issues sexual issues all caused by alcohol and that's where I'm from that's what they treat right into therapy, not that it's bad but right into psychiatry right into medicine and they're trying to treat the part that is not sinking the ship I was in deep pucky down here we got the problem that's going to sink the ship and they are going to blame this and that's normal I got no truck with that at all, I understand The problem is, this is the disease component because how do you solve this problem? How do you stop doing this? So of course said it. Don't drink. Don't drink. And you ain't going to get any DUIs. You aren't goingto have any sexual dysfunction because of alcohol. Your financial problems are probably going to be cleared up if your unmanageability is due to alcohol. You're probably going going to have some legal problems get cleared up if you stop drinking, don't you think? Think you'll be able to save a little more money if you don't drink. I mean, my God! Unless you like Starbucks the way I do. I spend more on Starbucks than I ever did Budweiser. I'm not blaming them. Do you hear me? I'm NOT blaming them! I understand. They are powerless to treat this because they can't treat what they can. Even cancer! They can shoot a beam. They can They can shoot radiation because they can see it. They can see the tumor. They know where to shoot. Where do you shoot for what I've got? Once all this is stopped, and then I start spiraling in that vicious cycle of agitated, excited emotion, anxiety, and depression, which is what Wilson called the victim's vicious cycle vacillating between the three every day and I stop drinking and it gets worse and then some mope says just grow up go see a doctor when this is what's happening here these are the symptoms of unresolved spiritual conflict the need to go after excited agitated emotions spiraling depression and this low level gnawing anxieties like it talks to me something wrong with you? oh boy if I was you I'd drink you're bad and you don't like Tom he's happy your relationship is going to end any day now I go right to self doubt right to it that is my default I go right to self-doubt I doubt me, I doubt you I doubt anything can help me I doubt there's any hope for me I develop self-centered fear and I fancy myself sufficient at the same time think about this I am filled with self-dubt and by the way you know when you're doubting yourself I have this fear I'm going to lose something I've got like my safety I'm going to fail to get something I need something as simple as I need to eat I don't think I'm going to get to eat something as simple as that and then I think but I got it I got it I don' t need your help thank you so I go steal it I fancy myself sufficient and my self-reliance fails me because when I try to pick myself up by my bootstraps I find myself back over here ladies and gentlemen they can't treat that they can throw whatever they want at it but they can not stop it because there is no such thing as spiritual chemotherapy there is no such time and besides that what are you shooted at they didn't know what to shoot it at in me I didn't know this was my condition. I had no idea this was my problem. I had I'll tell you more about that tomorrow but I had some of the greatest professionals in my hometown treat me. A doctor wrote a book about me and my psychosis. I was told I could never walk the streets free of medication by a judge. They said that if I did I'd be put in an institution because of some things I did that I'm not going to tell you here tonight. general way and yet here I am in Scotland with a passport I can go home no offense do you get this? everything that I'm sharing with you tonight, I'm going to prove to you tomorrow is alcoholism and I thought I had problems other than alcohol I had people in AA God forgive them, Dr. Bob types who didn't identify with me who said quote you're just in here trying to be different again I'm not trying to be different I want to fit in what do you mean I'm trying to be different as a matter of fact if I could just sit here and not talk I'd be fine if I didn't talk to you Bob you make me feel like I don't fit in have you ever been to a meeting where you just didn't think you was in AA maybe you wasn't alcoholic enough you just didn't fit what's wrong with these people, you know nothing wrong with them it's just many of them are Dr. Bob type but the worst case is the Bill W type that wants to go undetected they're the ones who most fiercely resent their own kind they'rethe ones who we call the sharpshooters rather than be detected they will take shots at the ones who are finding an answer I know I was one of them years ago and now I'm paying the price for that I'm getting the love right back at me now tomorrow morning Tina's going to start out she's going tell a bit of her story and she's gonna talk to us about agnosticism I want to add this before we close doctor's opinion and the first three chapters are all devoted to what step one that's impressive that means that's critical information four chapters entirely devoted to step one and then chapter four is devoted to what? entirely to step two, we better look at that don't you think? do you know where I come from and I bet you it's true over here too the single most overlooked step is step two why? because it's titled what? we agnostics you know what I said years ago I believe in God let's move on it is the most skimmed over chapter in my personal experience I'd like to call that my opinion but experience is not opinion in my experience working with literally thousands of alcoholics in the last 30 years most predominantly the last 24 they have all skimped over chapter 4. And they don't know this truth. And I want to share this with you before we break. This truth combined with this other information set the path for me so I could start walking on it. Where's I going with that? Oh, chapter 4 In chapters 1 through 3 and the doctor's opinion or the problem related to alcohol. Got it? Now, if you're a Dr. Bob type like my brother, most of his problem was solved right there because his obsession was related to alcohol. And when he finally stopped drinking 28 years ago, he looked at We Agnostics and he thought, Boy, am I glad I ain't like that. Boy, Am I glad I ain' got that problem no more now that I don't drink because he had that problem drinking. See, when my brother drinks he acts agnostically. He does the things that's in chapter 4. You see, when I stop drinking my agnosticism comes to the surface. I'm exposed for what I am sober. And that's why there's so much fierce resentment from one to another because no one really wants to be exposed. Do you? Not really. And I exposed myself as an agnostic. And tomorrow morning, I hope you come back because it's going to be a real interesting topic tomorrow. Here it is. There's no cure for it. And most of my behavior is sober. How many of you have heard people say that's your alcoholic thinking? Or that's Your Alcoholic Behavior? I'm going to contradict that. I don't believe that's the truth unless you're drinking when you say it. Alcoholic behavior takes place when you're drinking. Alcoholic thinking takes place in two ways. One, when you are drinking and when you think about drinking. That is alcoholic thinking. But other than that, let's call that 10% because I happen to like that number. 10%. When I am drinking or when I am thinking about drinking, I have alcoholic thinking but I am going to show you tomorrow morning the evidence so that you can make your own decision that I don't have alcoholic thinking today. Not at all. Unless I'm thinking about drinking. Here's what I have. I have agnostic thinking. I have agnestic thinking. And I believe in God. And I also want you to know I'm an ordained minister. I can preach a sermon like you never heard before. I'm not going to tell you what denomination it is. I've given some bodacious sermons. I promise I'm not giving you one this weekend. I promise. But I can really whip them out, let me tell you. I promise you also I've not brought none of that in here this weekend and I won't. I will not bring religion into this because religion belongs out there. The only reason I tell you that is because it did not render me sane and sober. Nothing that they threw at me, nothing. They try, let my tell you, if those ordination papers I carry could solve this, I would not be here let me tell you I sponsor a number of priests now where do they go they're in the God business I had this one priest ask me to work with him and when I said well I think I know what your problem is he said what would that be I said well you're agnostic he goes like this I have a doctorate in theology I said great He says, I also have a degree in psychology. It's great. I said, anal thermometers have degrees too? So what's that got to do with anything? Here's a guy who knows more about God than I ever will. And he can't stop drinking. Because once he stops drinking, he cannot stay in life the way it is because he feels empty. And he's a priest. We've got a lot of those. being a priest being a pastor being a clergy person is not a shield from alcoholism and you know they're the most baffled lot I mean Father Martin has one of the best treatment programs for ministers and priests on the east coast they go in there more baffLED than I was because I didn't have any belief when I got here and you now what I have a faith now outside of here but I'm here to tell you I'm still an agnostic And some people will argue with that. Maybe them, but not me. I know what it means to be agnostic today. And I believe I was born that way and I believe there's no cure. And I'm going to leave you with this thought. Agnosticism has very little to do with God and everything to do with me. See you tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock.