Myers R. – Service – Rapidly Working the Steps – 2003

Chris says, don't screw up. Hi, everybody. My name is Myers R. and I'm an alcoholic. This is this is the good a minute ago. I took your picture and it was not to bust your anonymity. It was so I could show my wife that it's like talking to a bunch of movie stars. It's the prettiest bunch of people I've ever seen in my whole life. Is there such thing as an ugly person in Iceland? I mean, it's amazing thing to me. Can you guys hear me OK? There's something about flying that always makes my ears do goofy things, and it takes a week for them to get back to normal. And so it always sounds like I'm in a well when I'm doing this. And I just I can't tell what I'm talking real quiet or whether I'm talk real loud. So if I get kind of out there, you guys just wave at me and I'll slow down. You know, there are there are a couple of things that I'm hugely passionate about in Alcoholics Anonymous. And one of them is sponsorship and one of Them is 12 step work and they're sort Of connected they're joined you really Can't separate them but it's the one Area of Alcoholics Anonymous where we've Really done a good job at screwing Things up you know you ever ask yourself Why it is that people don't want to Sponsor and don't wanna do 12 step Work the reason I'm guessing at this Based on my own experience is fear we We are afraid to step up to the plate and do the things that we need to do. And because the fellowship, as a general rule worldwide, has let us off the hook somewhat, we don't have the... See, early AA, they said, OK, come, you sober up, and then it's your responsibility to carry the message to somebody else. It's your responsiblity to be working with somebody else and yet within our fellowship, we've drifted from that and we have well-meaning sponsors that tell us to take two years before we start doing this or do this, or you know what? You need to get better first. You get well yourself and then go out there. Wait a minute, guys. The book didn't say that. The book doesn't say the book didn'T say that in the morning. We're going to talk about this summit at length is 12 step stuff. But I wanted to focus on on sponsorship specifically this morning for a couple of minutes. And I know Chris and Peter want to want to add some stuff and we'll answer some questions if you have any questions about this. But it's an area that gets real weird. There's no area that we talk about where we get more people asking more questions than about sponsorship because it's unclear exactly what our responsibilities are. You see, if you look in your book, everything from chapter seven all the way through 11 is about sponsorship. That's where we know, you know, so people say, well, I don't quite understand how to sponsor. Well, go read. It's right there. Every question the book from seven on tells us how to deal with relationships, sex, money, health stuff, you name it. It's all right there and those are our responsibilities but sponsorship goes beyond that in areas of what our responsibility is to to Alcoholics Anonymous in general. What is what is our responsibility to our group, to the guys that are there in the group with us? What are our responsibilities to our families? And this is all about sponsorship. Guys, these are the things that we need to buck up and just realize that it's our responsibility to go tell somebody and show somebody this work. I want you to understand that I can't Chris's stuff. We'll talk about this in the morning some. But, you know, Chris had a tough time getting here. And then once he got here, he was OK. I didn't have any trouble at all getting to AA. None. Chris brought me. He said, come on. He says, come one, you knucklehead. Let's go. And I did. You see? And that's how that worked. Where I ran into problem was after I got here. You see, my nightmare started a couple of years after I got into AA and I spent a lot of time really hurting. You know, they talk about your bottom being, you know, you'll get your bottom before you get to AA guys. I'm telling you right now, my experience was I hit my bottom seven years away from my last drink in Alcoholics Anonymous. I was as miserable as a man could be. And I had two loving sponsors during that period of time that loved me to death. And they are the kindest men I've ever known, the sweetest they could be and and and they nurtured me and they loved me and they damn near killed me. They did. They did not know what was in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, they had no concept of the steps of Alcoholics Anonymous that we talked about these old nebulous kind of things. And we talked in generalities and we talked to we never looked at it as a basic set of instructions guaranteed to get us to God. We never looked at it from that perspective. As a matter of fact, the guy thing was kind of played down. There was this thing that kind of went through our group that perhaps talk of God was scaring off the newcomer. And so I don't know. We'll talk about that later. But it was just kind of strange. And so as a consequence, at seven years sober, I'm suicidal. I'm writing hot checks all over Denton County. I cannot keep my eyes off other women, which just my wife just loves that. You can imagine what it was like around our house. I now have three daughters by this time. And I mean, the whole thing is just a mess. And so I get in with a bunch of big book thumpers. I'm just going nuts and I know I'm going to drink and I get hooked up. Chris saved my life the second time, which is just the weirdest thing. He brought me in the first time and then he watched watches me unwind in our meetings and get sick again. And he grabs me and says, don't do anything. I want to see if I can get you hooked up to another group. And so he was in town and he knew a lot of people. And so she got me hooked up with these crusty old guy named Cliff Bishop. And I'm going to intentionally bust Cliff's anonymity. Cliff's 80 years old, and he's the crustiest, meanest. There's not a man on God's green earth I love more than Cliff Bishop. He simply saved my life because he was willing to look at me and say, Myers, would you please shut up? But see, because you have to understand, I have all this wisdom that I want to share in this newfound group that I'm involved with. You see, it doesn't matter that I'm sick, so sick I can hardly stand to get up in the morning. It doesn't mater. I still have all this wisdom. You tell me this ego and this arrogance doesn't kick our rear ends. So I get to this deal, and I'm telling you this because you have to understand that the way it works in Alcoholics Anonymous is that strong sponsorship breeds strong sponsors. You see, and weak sponsorship breeds weak sponsors. And so it's like we wonder how things get down the toilet, how things just get all tore up. Well, I come to AA and I'm too lazy to read the big book, okay? And so I'm sitting at a meeting and this fine upstanding young gentleman right here tells me something that sounds cool. And I said, that's hot shit. I like that. Now, it may not be in the big book. It probably wasn't, but it sounded good. And so this man's opinion of what's in this book becomes my doctrine. You see? And so the next time when this man sticks his hand out and say, Myers, would you help me through the work? I'll go, yeah. Do I pick up the book? No, because I'm too lazy to read it. I don't know what's In it. What I what I what my default position is. I go straight to what this man said. I remember this guy said this cool thing in a meeting one time. And then I share what he said. Now, it may have the power to kill this man. It may have helped me at the time that I heard it, but it may kill this man, you see, because it was not our basic text. It was not a program. It was a, well, so seven years from my last drink and my last drug, um, I'm full to hear with that kind of information. I, guys, I know every cool one liner. I know Every Snappy Little Piece of Crap that you can imagine. And I'm and I'm gathering up these little buckaroos that I'm sponsoring and I'M TELLING THEM ALL THIS STUFF AND THEY'RE ALL JUST FALLING BY THE WAYSIDE. They're just getting sick and dying and going away. And I'M GOING, WHAT'S GOING ON? HOW COME NOBODY'S STAYING? You see, collectively within the fellowship, that's the question that every one of us needs to ask ourself. I'M HUGE ON ASKING OURSELVES HARD QUESTIONS. Why is it that these guys can't stay sober? Why is It that they're hurting so desperately in the fellowship? Well, you already know what the answer is. We've been talking about it. You already know it before we even got here. They're dying because the message that we're giving these guys in these meetings is not a it's a bunch of well-meaning opinions that have the power to kill, have the power to hurt people immeasurably. And so what we need to do is take a proactive stance. If you're talking, let's say, assume for the sake of example that every one of you guys is brand new, squeaking new today in this program. You don't know jack shit about AA. If we're going to start someplace, let'S start at one premise. That A, we maybe not know everything or anything. We're goingto set our arrogance and our ego aside. And then we're gonna take a proactive stance and make a pact with ourselves to learn what's in the big book. Guys, I don't care how many degrees you have. I don' t care how smart you think you are. If you don't know what's in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, the first 164 pages of this book, you don' T know what to carry. Well, God will show me what to carrying. No, He won't. He won' T. He' s going to sit back and scratch His head and He' S going to say, The book is there. Read the book. See? Yeah. I got, I got to tell you the first meeting that I went to at primary purpose group. We're going to talk about this some tomorrow because I want, I want you guys to experience this stuff because it was so funny that the, but it wasn't funny. It was pathetic. It was, it was actually, it's actually pretty sad, but, but so I go to this, I go to this group and these guys are just like, you know, they use the term a Nazi and I don't really like that term, but but it describes this group. I mean, there's like 40 people sitting around this table and they all have big books. Now, you have to understand, I had not seen my big book in years. I had Not seen it. Why? Why do we need it? We're not talking about it in our meetings. So I don't need the big book and I just set it aside. So I'm sitting there and all everybody has a big book in front of them and we start this deal. Damn. And so I want to share some wisdom. And as I begin to share, 30 people slid forward in their chair and I'm thinking, what's this about? You know, and one guy drags me back and he said something, you know, like this and after. And I noticed it over about a week's period of time. Every time I get ready to say something, 30 or so people slide forward in their chair. Now, it finally dawned on me what they're doing. They're getting ready. I'm thinking my head saying these guys don't like me and they're trying to shut me down. And how dare they try to do that kind of stuff? And so one night I actually said that not in so many words, but I just said, you know,, you guys are really, you guys seem to be all over me when I'm talking like this. And this guy, you know, he just kind of pulled me to one side and he said, let me ask you a question. He said, I don't think that you understand really what's going on here. And I said, well, what's that? I'm ready to leave. I'm already to go back to where I was, you see, because they won't let me share. So he he says, how long have you been here? And I say two weeks. And he said OK in two weeks in two week. The men and women of this group already love you enough to tell you to hush up and listen. They already love you enough to make themselves feel uncomfortable to tell you what you need to hear and what you need to here. Myers and I will tell you, and then you can leave if you want to, is that you're an arrogant, self-centered son of a bitch and you need you need just sit and listen. I said, well, screw you, but I'm going to stay and I did. I sat right there like this and and we went back through the stuff, but it took all the seat. What they were doing was they were holding me real close and they were loving me and they were telling me the things that I needed to hear that nobody else in seven years had had the guts to tell me. Nobody. My sponsors didn't say anything when I wanted to share a bunch of goofy crap at a meeting. They just sat there and looked at me, you see? And these guys weren't going to do that. So I got this crusty old dude to be my sponsor and there starts the deal. And he shows me and guides me through this work. And it's the durndest thing, because as I begin to understand what's in the book, I begin To understand that line on page 132 in the big book where it says we have recovered and been given the power to help others. The fear that consumed my life around Alcoholics Anonymous began to fall away. And I began to get healthy. And I begin TO understand that I had a message with depth and weight that only I could transmit to somebody. You see, that language of the heart. I was able to do things for the drunk that the treatment centers couldn't do. And you understand that there's nobody in here that has not experienced that stuff. You can sit there and look scathingly at a counselor that's talking to you about certain things because he's not experienced what it's like to be so fearful and so consumed by your disease that it's just kicking your ass. You see? He just doesn't understand. But the real drunk or the real addict that knows understands that. So real quick before I sit down, what we're going to do is there are some responsibilities that we have around sponsorship. And one of them is to be responsible to make sure that the guys that we work with get through the work. And that doesn't mean give them the book and say, read the first hundred sixty four pages and then we'll talk. I guess you could do that. But your responsibility is to stand on their neck and make sure. That they read it. Make sure that The Miracle starts working, you see, because left on our own devices. What do we do? We take the easier, softer way. You see, and I'll read the first 16 pages and I will set it aside. You see. And so so that's the reason why the only meetings that I go to are literature based meetings, because we have three meetings a week and that's all we do is study the big book. We study all the way through and then we start over and start back over again. You see? We don't have any discussion type stuff. But because of that, I stayed focused in the word until I learned what was in the big look and become could become comfortable with it. And you and you will, too. And as you do that, what you're going to find is, is that the message that you carry to the guys that you work with is going to be so intense and their recovery is going to be such an intense that it's the funnest thing in the whole wide world. Oh, over the years, I've had the pleasure of working with hundreds of men. And somebody asked me one time, he said, well, I don't understand why you spend so much time working with with guys in Alcoholics Anonymous. I would love to tell you that there's all kinds of other things involved in this thing. But the truth of the matter is, it's just plain fun to work with guys in this thing. It's there is nothing cooler on God's green earth than to work with some busted up drunk that comes in that can't put a sentence together. That's so screwed up as a man that he doesn't know what's going on and watch his life change, you see, and watching go back into his home life and watch his family healed and watch his little kids come back in and not be afraid of him. You know, the coolest thing for me in recovery was to be able to walk into my home and my kids didn't duck serious because I had become the man I hated. I'd become a bully. You see, it's just amazing stuff. Things like 13 stepping. You guys know what 13 stepping is, right? Yeah. I should have known they were sophisticates and they knew all about this kind of stuff. Guess what, guys? Men in this thing who are sponsoring guys, I don't give a rat's patootie what they say. It is your responsibility to stop that stuff yourself and to make sure that the guys you sponsor understand that the women that come into this fellowship need to be safe here. And so you women, I see some of you nodding. It goes the same way with women. You know, what we have to understand, I you know, let me share a piece of opinion. I don't think there's anything on God's green earth that God takes more offense of than somebody in our program that is supposed to be healthy, taking a cheap shot at a new guy that's unhealthy. I think God stands back and like this and goes, man, the ass kicking is just coming. It's just coming because because as responsible, sober members of Alcoholics Anonymous, we're supposed to be healthy. And the new guy coming in that can't make smart decisions and this kind of stuff. And it's so easy prey here. You see, I can't listen. Guys, I'm blessed with so many strong women friends in a and I love them dearly. And I'll tell you, we talk, we talked, we've talked hours about this kind of stuff and about how horrible it is to watch a woman work the work, get right up to the point where she's beginning to understand what her responsibilities are. She's beginning To understand that there is freedom from this disease that's kicking her ass. And then the hairy leg guy steps in the picture and now her focus is now no longer on God. It's on this guy and she's gone. She's gone, you see? And it's so tragic to see because she was right there. And guys, I'm telling you, women whose books I sign, I write this stuff in there all the time. I cannot tell you how much we need strong women in this fellowship doing this work. You see, it's a fact. So with all the tact I can muster, if you're a young woman in this fellowship and some guy is hitting on you, you tell him to screw off. You understand? Tell him to leave you alone until you get healthy. And once you get healthy, the gloves are off. You guys can do whatever you want to do. You can screw like minx. I don't care. But until then, be kind to one another. Be good to each other and let's hold each other accountable and be with each other. I think that's all I want to say right now. You got some comments on deal, Peter? Thanks, guys. Yeah. And they call me the evil twin. They get it all wrong, buddy. They get all wrong. I just look evil. I'm not like this is one of the one of the cool things in Alcoholics Anonymous and the way the message kind of got skewed is that this is kind of a temporary deal. We come in here, we get well and then We go out, you know, this line that we reenter the mainstream of life and everybody wants to take that as an excuse to leave the fellowship. And it's like my question is how come you can't do it all? You know, why can't you stay in AA and go to the gym and go back to church and, you know, do some cool stuff, start some businesses and go back to school and do all the cool things. My life started 15 years ago when I got sober. We'll talk about that tonight. But gee, guys, what a cool thing this is. And to be able to sponsor some men and women in this fellowship. What Meyer started to say earlier and didn't pursue, and I'm sure he will tomorrow, This is one of the reasons that we don't want to sponsor. I mean, I hear it all the time. I said, you know, I'm sponsoring a guy and I'm booked up. I got too much on my plate at the time I said. Well, listen, get one of those guys that I'm sponsored to go work with this guy as well. I'm afraid to sponsor because it's like what Myers said, because we don' We don't know how we're afraid. I'm scared. I will hurt him. See what I'm saying? But if you stay in the book and just take him through the steps and understand your primary purpose, you can't. How can you hurt him? You can't if you're playing junior therapist. you can kill him you dig if you're playing doctor well I think you ought to quit taking those antidepressants it's none of your business if he's taking antideressants you're not a doctor well this is what I think you oughta do about that you see here's the biggest misconception about sponsorship in AA today in all of our fellowships and cocaine anonymous and our friends and brothers and sisters and narcotics anonymous it's all the same and this is that this belief that I have to fix the alcoholic with me. My job is not to fix the alcoholic. I, I can't fix him. I can'T fix me. That's what the ABCs and after read how it works, the ABCS, you know, that God could and would, if he were sought, my job is to get you cats to God period. And then what you do with that is your business. But this, this bullshit that with I'm, this is my baby and I'm going to, I'm gonna, I'M going to fix what's wrong with him buddy that's look if i want to enter into this guy's life i can do that if i want to uh advise him on other areas i can't do that but that is not our primary purpose can y'all get down with that dr bob the co-founder of alcoholics anonymous and his uh short life uh it was about 15 years that he was sober before he passed away uh he worked with um conservatively 5,000 drunks. He sponsored 5, 000 guys. I've seen estimates closer to 6,000 guys that this man sponsored. Now you go tell me how he can take on all the problems of every single one of these drunks? See, if you do the math on this stuff, guys, this guy was sponsoring close to an average of like one a day. Now, how can you do that? It's like they jam Myers because he sponsors 60 men. Your ego is in the way. You're sponsoring too many people. Listen, that's horse shit. That's absolute horse shit You can sponsor as many As you've got time to sponsor My job is to take them through the steps How long is that going to take? If you're not mucking it up With a bunch of therapy and stuff It doesn't take very long The steps were designed To be worked rapidly, folks The steps Were designed To be Worked through In a very short period of time A few weeks If you are taking longer Than a few weeks To work the steps You are spinning your wheels Perhaps you don't understand The physical allergy The mental obsession And the spiritual malady Perhaps you don't really. Perhaps you have a lurking notion in the back of your head that you're not even one of us. And we need to talk about that. But if I've qualified you and I've got you to a place where you're convinced that you'RE an alcoholic, why in the living daylights would I want you to take longer than a few weeks to work these steps? What a cool deal to be in Iceland where most of your amends are right here. It's the truth. You know, some of those guys that travel around the goddamn country, you know, it takes some time to make some of these amends. You've got to do a lot. I mean, right here, you know, in a couple of days, you can bring up some people, write some letters, you set down and you can make some face to faces with the people that are not working the steps. Folks, either they don't know that they're supposed to be working the step rapidly or they're stalling for time. They're trying to get out. See, if I'm a sponsor, it's just like Meyer said, I'm going to stand on your neck and find out. You said you were willing to go to any length. Show me. And let's work these steps so that you can turn around and help me help somebody else get sober. That's what it's about, folks. Stop clear out of your mind that your responsibility is to fix that alcoholic. See all these little X's over here? Some of you are wearing the little buttons, the little Xs on the outside. Those are issues. Those are things that God is going to take care of. I wish you could take that to heart. Transmit the information that you have out of the book and you can absolutely not go wrong. Thanks. I knew this was going to be like this. I knew it. No, really. Let me clarify something real quick. People say all the time, I hear this, I hear this all the time. You know, you can only effectively sponsor one, maybe two guys at a time. The truth of the matter is, is that early AA, because there were so few of them, they sponsored lots of men, lots of them. It's only been recently that we got all whacked out with this, with this with this numbers game. Sponsorship is not a numbers game I don't want you to make. I don' t want to even, I don''t want to even start the idea that you have to sponsor a bunch of guys to be successful. I'm not saying that, but if God brings a bunch of guys into your life to work with, don't, don't be dusting them, man. Don't be, you know, making excuses why you can't do that stuff. Most of the time, if you, if You're not doing it, what Chris was just talking about, a lot of times we spend too much time with these guys. We take on too much. We shoulder too much responsibility. I'll never forget. I would tell you this real fast. I had started this working with some guys out at this treatment place and I had probably five or six guys I was working with and everybody was staying sober. I had these little A.A. buckaroos and they were all doing the deal. And I'm thinking, you know, me and my arrogance. I'm thinking that I'm God's gift to sponsorship. And and I'm walking around going, yeah, I'm pretty good like this. And my sponsor, O'Cliffo, he would look at me and go, but I'm not sure that you've got a grip on this yet. None of this is you're doing. This is God's doing. And it was like something had changed all of a sudden. It was like somebody flipped this switch and four of my guys went out and then I picked up two more guys and they lasted a week and they went out. And then I picked Up another two or three and they Went out and now I'm running about a six month period of time where nobody stands over, you see, and now i'm devastated. I'm crawling around going geez, what is going on with this stuff, man? I thought you said this stuff worked. And so finally, Cliff and I had this little sit down one afternoon and he said, you know, what we have to do is get this thing in perspective of what's going on. You see, you cannot take responsibility for these successes, but you don't have to shoulder the responsibilities for the failure either. Ask yourself the question. Here it is again, the big question thing. Ask yourself a question. Did you carry the message of recovery to that man? Yes, sir. Did you work him through the work? Yes, sir. Okay. That's it. That's all you can do. You can't do anything more. That and one other thing. This illusion that we have to be friends with everybody we sponsor. Don't do this. Don't doing this. Don't don't do that. Don't you do this because what happens is, is that you start judging who you're going to sponsor or not. That's not your business. That's God's business. Who you sponsor. God brings these people in your life. Guys, I've sponsored some of the most unlovable people that you've ever seen in your life. I sponsor guys today that I simply, I can hardly stand them. But I love them and I love what's happening in their life. We'll never be buds and they'll never been on my Christmas card list. But they're children of God just like me and they're hurting just like me. And we have a chance to get through this stuff. And it is It's the it's the coolest thing to experience. One more fast thing. Sponsorship is like this big funnel. It's like this Big Inverted Funnel. And people say, well, how do you sponsor a bunch of guys? Well, you don't do it all at one time. If 20 of you guys walked up to me and said, Myers, I want you to sponsor me. I'm going to dust half of you. I'm gonna say, no, I can't do that. And it's only the man that says, sure, I will. Now he's living in arrogance. You see, now his ego is driving the whole thing. Don't do that. But what happens is, is that God brings men and women into your life to sponsor. And you start out here on the little part of the funnel and you're heading this direction with it into the big end of the thing. And, you know, when you get a new guy, you're holding him real close and you're doing the work and things are pretty intense down in this narrow little part. And then guess what? The miracle of recovery happens. And now it's God doing for them what they couldn't do for themselves. And Now they're less and less grindy. They're let they take less and last time. Now you're getting into the big part of the funnel out here and now you're ready to take some more into the little piece of the funnel. And then you work it like that, you see? So it's possible to have 50 or 60 guys out here you're sponsoring because you're talking to them, what, once a week maybe? You see? They're healthy. They're out there on their own doing their own stuff, you See? They got their own buckaroos that they're carrying through the work, yousee? And that's the way that stuff works. And that' why it's so cool to see And so it's also your little barometer is set so that let's say you're out here in the big part of the funnel and you still got a cat that's calling you every morning with relationship problems. Let's drag his ass back to the beginning and find out what we left out. Where did we go wrong? What is it that this guy's not talking about? You see, how squeaky clean is he in the rest of his life? Let's find outwhat the problem is. Anybody you still happen to deal with a bunch out here is you've got a problem. You need to go find out what the problem is and bring him back and fix it. And it's real easy to do that. You see, does anybody have any questions about this stuff? Oh, I was talking to a guy just a minute ago, and I hope I don't know whether he's in here or whether he was in a meeting down the street. I was trying to escape and he caught me out there on it. No, he he said he said we were talking about singleness of purpose, about drunk sponsoring addicts and addicts sponsoring drunks. Let me frog off into this real, real quick again, because it's a key to to to your stuff because of the traditions, the way they're set up in our singleness of purpose. I understand that a lot of people who are addicts sober up in a God bless you and I'm glad you're here where the rub comes in, where the where we get have a problem is in the next generation of the drunken addict. You come in and you got sober in a and you're a heads up addict. You got sober now or you got clean and now you've got a drunk in a medium of Alcoholics Anonymous that wants you to sponsor him. Now you've Got a heads up addict sponsoring a drunk who does not understand addiction like the addict. You see, I've never smoked any crack in my whole life, guys. And I used to sponsor crack addicts all the time. And you know what? I noticed one day that all my crack addict's are not staying clean. You see that we're not making the connection spiritually and emotionally. The language of the heart is not being, I don't know what it's like to suck on the hot end of a crack pipe. I don' t know. You see? And so that's why it's so terribly important that when we get involved with guys like that, can we be a benefit to him? Sure. Can we love him? Sure. Can we help him get some coffee and help him gets plugged in? Sure. That's our responsibility. But then it's our responsiblity to flip him over to a crack addict that understands what's going on. Don' t let your arrogance and your ego get in the way of that stuff, guys. Flip him. Get him plugged in someplace where he can be. And it's the funny thing to watch a crack addict that's now in touch with another crack addict and watch the miracle happen. And they're both smiling at each other, and they say three words to each other and they smile. They know, you see, the connection was made. I've been working with a guy for two weeks and we can't get anywhere. The arrogant son of a bitch. You see, I'm grousing around. We never made the connection. And it is hugely important. Anybody got any questions about this stuff? Sponsorship stuff. We're all cool on that. You guys are either the shyest people I've ever met or or you're the smartest people already. I know. I'm thinking it's more of the smarter part. I think it's a nightmare. I think It's a train wreck waiting to happen. And the reason being is that we as addicts and alcoholics are hugely deceptive people. And we can say, I mean, you ever meet a drunk or an addict that couldn't talk you into anything? We are hugely into the motivation, into this stuff. We'll say whatever we think you want to hear. But our eyes do not lie. When a guy I sponsor that I know walks in and says something to me, I say, hey, what's up? And he goes, nothing, everything's fine. and I'm looking at his eyes like this. And I know he's full of crap. And I just say, but I know you think you're going to go to a meeting tonight and study the big book, but you're not. You and I are going into the back room and we're going to talk, you see, and I can sweep him out of there and we can go get back on track and see what's really going on in this kid's life, you see. But then that. But that's why I think that it's important to have friends in the fellowship. It's important to have buddies that you can deal with. My email is I love email stuff and I'll email everybody in this room about stuff. And if you need information, I'm your information guy. I'll always be there for you. But I would never I would ever be so arrogant to think that I could effectively sponsor somebody long distance like that. That's that's a probably probably a personal opinion. I don't think it's in the big book anywhere. Anybody else? Y'all cool? Yes, ma'am. You know, that is an absolute excellent question. If I had a gold star, I'd give you one right now. The question was, is it possible to sponsor somebody if you have not worked the steps? I think that's what you asked. My ears are still a little... No is a good answer. no is a good answer but let me say it's a i want to i want to say that as a qualified no um because what we do is is that it's it's arrogant on our part to think that god will will will sometimes god puts people in our life that we need to work with quickly in in recovery and it doesn't mean i got guys that i that i work with that have been sober for two weeks we're we're halfway through the work. We're getting ready to do their stuff. They're already starting to experience this spiritual awakening in their life. They are already starting due. Now we go to a treatment place because my guys, after a week, they're out there with me at a treatment place three times a week. We are out there doing this stuff. Um, um, we'll talk about that some in the morning and 12 step stuff, but, but can they sponsor guys in those treatment places? No, but they can show them what happened in their experience already in two weeks. It's the most powerful thing that we can possibly do. It's been two weeks since I had a drink or took a drug, and I'm here in this treatment center to tell you that there is hope, that this stuff works, that it is not crap. It's not just empty rhetoric. You see? And that's where it's so hugely effective that we do that. And that is where our recovery is boosted And we get so much good from that. And so my fear is that you will use it as an excuse to never get involved in sponsorship. And I've seen thousands and thousands of men over the years do that, just that. Well, you know, we're a year into the deal and this can't still not work this work. Well, I can't sponsor anybody because I haven't worked my work. Well, why? Why? Go work the work. You see, come with us and do this stuff. But don't shirk your responsibility. That's the service part of this deal. Somebody walks into your group and they're lost and they are kind of looking around. You know the feeling. You were there once. And they don't know where the crapper is. They don't knows where the coffee is. They don's know where it is. Show them. Help them. Don't just point. Go get them. Put your arm around them. Tell them that they are welcome here. You know? That's what... But yeah, that will... Yes, ma'am. Yeah, between women's responsibility and that of men's responsibility or man's responsibility in general? I love that question. We talked about this stuff last night. Um, uh, Chris will probably have some comments on this stuff like that. Uh, let me tell you from my experience, um, I couldn't, I tried sponsoring women and I find it a huge distraction. And I also, I do. Um, but the grindy part of this stuff, it's not that I don't believe that I could effectively carry a message to a woman. I think that I could. But the grindy part about it is, is that I have a wife at home that I truly adore and to put her in a position of having to be there while I work so intimately with a woman, you know, because if we're working together, we're going to have to talk about stuff. And I'm going to have to talk about that guy you touched and that, you know, this we're going to have to Talk about this thing. And when you call me in the middle of the night because some hairy leg guy broke your heart again and I'm talking to you for an hour on the phone and my wife is laying there listening to this whole. You understand what I'm saying? It's not fair to her to do that and to get into that kind of a situation, you see. But that would be my biggest concern about that kind Of stuff. Cliff Bishop, this old dude that I'm Talking to, he sponsors There's lots of women and she is effective at doing that kind of stuff. But I couldn't and I think you have to be. Do I? He's 80 years old. Yes. And that said on that, Chris, did you? And we need to make it clear that Cliff's not working with Iceland women. Unbelievable. Y'all do yourself a disservice. Y'all really, you should travel more and you can see how, what Myra said earlier, y'all really are an attractive race over here. This is absolutely phenomenal. I can put little blinders on, you know, like in, real quick, some of the questions that were, one of my big problems with sponsoring somebody of the opposite sex is not, I mean everybody wants to go with it, well it could get out of hand and it could cause problems and I'm down with it. Here's my biggest concern with it if I sponsor a woman in this room right here and I sponsor a woman. What I'm doing is I'm taking away one woman that somebody else, another woman could sponsor. We have areas of the country where all the hairy leg guys are because there's a couple of gurus in a group. They're doing all the sponsoring and the women that desperately need to learn how to sponsor in order for them to stay sober or not getting the chance. You see, you don't learn something by reading a book. You learn something about doing it. I don't care if it's working a computer or, or smoking a cigar. Peter got me addicted to tobacco again last summer. And I want to thank him publicly from the podium for doing that. But we puff on cigars. But the first time he handed me a cigar, you know, I was like, well, what are you supposed to do? I can't get any air out of this dumb bitch. He's got, he says, you got to bite the tip off. You got to bite, you showed me how and, and I smoked my first cigar again. And I mean, it's like we were off to the races and it's been good ever since. I love traveling with Peter. He always brings me expensive cigars. We spoke Swisher sweets in the States, you know, you learn, you learn by experience folks. And if you want to know how to sponsor somebody, you sponsor somebody. I mean, that's how you do it. And I reiterate what Meyer said and get off this podium. Uh, when, when I'm sitting in a room and somebody comes up and asked me to sponsor, the first thing I need to do is get my arrogance out of the way and my ego out of the way and understand that God had to play a part in this. And if you're new, you're two weeks in this fellowship and some little lady comes up and taps you on the shoulder or you're a guy and you're two weeks and some guy taps you and says I'm really identified with what you said at that little meeting last night and I really need somebody to take me through the work the next thing coming out of your mouth better be yes. Because I want to tell you something if you want to know something that will push you through these steps fast let some newcomer be on your ass trying to get through the word. You'll follow us? It will force you to finish that fifth step. It will force you to finish making your amends so that you can continue to sponsor that person. I think it's the height of arrogance to dust somebody that had the courage to come up to you and ask you to sponsor. There must have been a reason he must have seen something in you that he wanted. You've got the same power that anybody else has. So what you need to do is just say next, you say, yes, absolutely. And then go work your ass off and try to stay ahead of the guy. That's what you that's what she did. And the next one you'll be ready for. I mean, that's That's what it is. See, this idea that some of us are going to be sponsors and some of us are not as bullshit because the book says point blank. If you're not working with others, you're not going to stay sober. Period. Period. And somebody in the first couple of weeks comes up and gives you the opportunity to work with them. Buddy, they just did you the best favor in the world. Say yes. Absolutely. Any other questions? What you got? Yeah, I was wondering about sponsoring. When's the right time? Is it after the 9th step? No, regardless of the sobriety date, guys. The question was, when's the right time to sponsor? In the States, we have this terrible problem. I don't know if they do it here, but in the States we have this terrible problems. Most groups, you know, it's like you can't chair a meeting until you're six months over. You can't sponsor somebody until you've been sober a year. And it's crap. I mean, that's not in the book. That's not the book bill. Wilson was, was, you know, six months sober when he went and found Dr. Bob, you know? And I mean, it's like, it was like if we'd have waited that long to get sober, this room would be empty because we'd all be drunk. I mean we'd all be out there in the, we don't have time to wait for you to get ready quote unquote to go spot. You'll never be ready guys. It's like it's like having sex, you know? It's like there come a time that you got us to all the bullshit gotta stop and you You know, it's like it's crunch time now. You know what I mean? It's like, you know, and it's... I don't care how many books you've read. I don'T care how much, how many dirty pictures you've looked at, whatever. It's Like, you Know, you're never quite ready for it, you KNOW. But it comes a time you just got to say, OK, buddy, here we go. You Know, and It'S Like, I hope you're ready. And It'S like, and you just do it. You Know? And Sometimes, I Mean, We Can Laugh About It, but It'S Awkward The First Time. Sometimes You Make A Fool Of Yourself. Sometimes you don't do it right, but pretty soon you get the hang of it. You see? Hold on. You got a question? What you got? Yeah, I wanted to ask you about, there's an AA group here like that, who are, you know, taking this away from the book. So they, like people have to spend, you now, like the first week for one month and the second week for another month I think it's not a good idea. I'm trying to get better here. I think this sucks. Now, here, let me ask you a question. If I go make a cake, we'll go down to your kitchen this afternoon and I'll make a cake, but I want to put the flour in today and next month I'm going to put the eggs in and three months later I'll put the milk in. You follow me? Now, I'm eventually going to have a cake guys. I can't exactly tell you what it's going to look like. The steps were done the same way. This was to have the spiritual experience, folks. That's why some people, they talk about, I'm going to have a spiritual experience of the educational variety. I'm gonna tell you something, folks, and we're going to talk about that in just a few minutes. If you work the steps the way they're supposed to, I'm not going to tell you anything. I'm only going to say something rapidly in a short period of time, two weeks, three weeks, finish these steps. You will have a life-changing experience and there won't be any question whether you've had that experience. It'll blow you out of the water. My experience that sponsors that tell people to take their time to work the steps, like we're going to work one step a year. They're dusting you. The truth is they just don't want to screw with you. They don't have time to mess with you? You might want to consider getting somebody else. That's the easier way to work with somebody is to get them through quick. Just dragging it out. Where were we at? It's like you forget. How can you participate that way? Rapidly. Rapidly? I don't think you can work the Steps. Why is it? Let me ask you a question, guys. There's a line in the book that says it and how it works. It talks about we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Why does that always have to translate? Take your time to work the steps. It just says fearless and thoroughly from the beginning. From the very first start, let's give it two good weeks of your life. Let's get through these steps and let's see what the miracle takes place. This idea to drag it out for what? So the obsession can stay with you so you can eventually go drink and then just say AA doesn't work? Uh-uh. Uh-huh. I don't agree. They call it box weight. Some of them are box weight, if they're right. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's the early, early cats and alcoholics anonymous. Dr. Bob's way was working within a couple of weeks. Guys, the steps were never intended to be drawn out over a long period of time. Never. It was initially. That's why we had such great success rate. You're you're dying, folks. The mental obsession is with you. The spiritual malady is driving you crazy. You're irritable, restless, discontent. The depression's on you. The fear's choking you to death. You hate yourself. You've got low self-esteem. I mean, you just want to come apart. You with us? But I'm going to tell you, we're going to work these steps. And in about six months, you're goingto get some relief. No, what we need to do is, we said it earlier, we needto get you to God and we needtoget you toGod quick. That's what weneed to do. Yes. Another question? We still have a few minutes. You always tell when it's time to smoke. Let's go. We have a system in Canada that lets us order a sponsored book. So, like a guideline on how to go and work your way up here. How you can control your life. And, you know, you don't have these big things. So, do you recommend that? No. Next question. You know, this is great. This is great, but this is one more time. And it may work for some people. I'm not saying it wouldn't work for some people, you know, we do it in treatment, you Know, we'll drag this out forever, You know, We make a consequence list and we do all this stuff and you may benefit from all of this. My sponsor is Mark Houston and over the period of time, initially we worked the steps rapidly when I got sober early on before I even met Mark and then later on in sobriety I'm 15 years sober. I do some things in the steps that take a long time, you know, extended third columns and and it's very intricate and very It takes a lot of time. I've grown from that and I've benefited from that, but I'd have been dead if somebody had come to me initially and said, this is what you've got to do. Jump through this hoop. Jump over this hoop and you've Got to do all of this stuff. You know, it's not that complicated. It's not That complicated. I'm not going to knock that. It may work great if it works for you. Give it give it a shot. But what we're trying to do is learn from our forefathers, the people that were here before us. They did not take much time to work the steps and they worked it directly out of the, out of the, uh, the information. Does that make sense? That answer your question? It's good stuff, but keep working the steps too. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's all about us. We're the most selfish self-centered people on earth. I love writing about myself. You Know, how do I feel today? I feel like shit. Okay. That's good. I mean, it's a great exercise, you know, if you, But it's not going to help anybody else. You know, what I need to do is stop worrying about how I feel and start thinking about how you feel because that's my job. That's my that's that's what keeps me sober. Helping helping other drugs. Appreciate the question. Don't they? Yes. My question is, I've sponsored a couple of women and my experience is that they have a package when they come in And they need relief and answers immediately. They're in situations that, and I caught it early on that I, you know, I'm not a counselor. And I don't want to take responsibility on counseling you on some issues. How do you handle that at the beginning of such sponsorship? You're connecting them with God, but do you say, hold on, just put this on the side, just while we do this? It's a great question. Did you all hear the question? Yeah. Because we all come to this. A lot of us, this comes as a news flash to some of you. We come to this fellowship with a lot of baggage, you know, and stuff. It's we got a disease that's killing us. And that's what we're here to do is to treat that disease. But we also have some some childhood of origin issues. We all have some marital problems. The question specifically was, what do you do when somebody comes and asks you to sponsor them? But they've got all this other baggage. How do you separate the baggage from the program? And I think the answer is quite simple. Don't talk about something that you have no experience on. And it's like you were not therapists against what we talked about. We get this straight going in the door. I say this going in. Sometimes people want to gang up. Chris, you always seem to be so tough on therapists. I'm a huge sponsor of therapy. I think if you're new in Alcoholics Anonymous and you're not seeing a therapist, you're really screwing up. You're really making a mistake because there's a lot of stuff out there that we did and a lot OF stuff that we need to mentally work through. It's got nothing to do with this disease. You see, everybody wants to lump it all together. It's all alcoholism. No, this is alcoholism, physical allergy, mental obsession spiritual malady the rest of this stuff is other it's we call it in the states we call we talk about outside issues you know what i do is i've got a list of therapists sex therapists money therapists you know marital therapy so and i got a listen to these people and when i get a gap that's going through this stuff i give them the number of this therapist and says you need to call this professional and go talk to this cat about it just like i do when the guy comes in i work with a lot of addicts and stuff the guys come and they got bad teeth you know from out there on the street and they're not taking care of themselves their teeth are falling out. What am I going to do? I'm going to go in there and say, look, I think you've got a freaking cavity back here. I think we laugh about it, but y'all do the same thing with this. I understand it. And you were molested. Well, listen, here's what I think you should do. Here's what I think you should do. Shut up. Unless you've been through it, you don't have a clue what they've been through. You need to get them to somebody that has been through it so that they can help. Listen, I'm a product of a lot of different people in this palace, a lot of doctors and there, and I got here, I was physically, I was beat up and I needed doctors and I needed therapy. And I needed people to help me in other areas. Thank God one man didn't try to fix me. It makes it so much simpler for us. Let's do what we do best. Who can talk? Who knows an alcoholic like another alcoholic? Myers was just talking about who knows another heroin addict like another heroin attic? Nobody. We do one thing. Guys, we have lived through this so that we could accomplish one thing so we could turn around and share that experience with somebody else. We don't need to make up stuff to help people with. Make sense? Dust them. Help them get someplace else with that business, and then you focus on what we need to focus on, which is the spiritual experience, because you know how to show them how to have a spiritual experience. That you know how to do. Let's make sure that that gets done. Who else? Big. I want to ask you something else. Like, when you tell a counselor in the AA you know, and he tells you to read like the law of addiction book and all that on the other side whatever you know is that enough AA for you? The question is a good one. In early, I assume we're talking about early on in sponsorship. When you come in and you've got a sponsor that wants you to read a bunch of other literature that's not quote-unquote AA approved. Make sense? There's a lot of great books out there that we can all benefit from. And I think we all need to do that. I don't have my guys read anything but the big book. I'll say this from the podium. I don'T have my guy's read the 12 and 12. I DON'T have MY GUY'S read meditation books. I DONT HAVE MY GUYS DO ANYTHING BUT STICK THEIR BEAK IN THE FIRST PAGES OF THE BIG BOOK OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS. I'VE GOT THEM RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW. Now, while their attention is right here, I need to focus in on that. This is killing them. This is killin' them. The rest of the stuff is a damn inconvenience in life and we need to look at that. You follow us? But this right here is what's killing me. So, can you read that other stuff? Yeah. Right after you finish the steps. I think it's a great idea. Any other question? Yeah, I was wondering about this thought about sponsoring gay people, about straight people sponsoring gay People, or gay people sponsoring straight people. Is there any answer to that? Could care less. Here again, because it's an outside issue. And I think if the person that's there is making an issue out of it, we're off the page. It's no more bigger of an issue than somebody that's been molested or somebody that'S been to Vietnam or somebody THAT'S blind in one eye. I mean, what do we I'm not making light of that. It says, but that is not why I'm a drinker. If you're drinking because you're gay, then you're not one of us. You're not an alcoholic and I don't have anything to share with you. If you'RE suffering from the disease, I have something to share WITH YOU. You want to talk about problems with being gay? Let's find some gay people to talk to. You follow us? It's got nothing. I don't care if you molest little animals. Let's talk about this. Anything to stay warm in this damn place, I'll tell you that. Yes, sir. I'm Rob Long and my name is Paul. Hey, Paul. My second sponsor came to me and said, I want to be your sponsor. I said, okay. then he said start meditating while you do the steps because you'll approach them differently if you're a meditating model you should start doing the LMSF right from the start not wait until you go through move right away start learning I think it made me approach the stuff differently I think it made me have a picture of spiritual appearance it's totally changed everything great question did you hear it should you practice the 11 steps Should you practice meditation while you work the steps, or should you wait until the 11th step to start practicing? The book's pretty clear. It talks about it. Let's get started with it. I wouldn't begin to start working with somebody until we began to start practice in the disciplines of 10, 11, and 12. I mean, that's what that's about. I know we work them in order, but guys, our purpose is to get you connected to God, and it's in the stillness that God's going to talk to you. So let's start practicing now getting quiet. I think that was excellent advice from that sponsor. I think it was excellent device. Would you agree? Any other? I'm sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Meditation is one of the one single things that you can do to affect your program. If you're in a doldrum in your program, everything has gotten flat. Let's look at your meditating life. Let's take a look at what you're doing. Let's see if it'll be completely different if you'll start the disciplines of meditation every morning, guys, every morning or every night whenever you do it. But once a day, at least get quiet so that you Can hear God's voice because that's when you hear it. When you're quiet, not when you're talking. Any other question, guys? The smokers are lining up. You got it. That's good stuff. We'll be back in an hour. We will be back.