M Workshop , Into Action Konvent Stockholm 2010 – Part 2 of 4 – 2010 – Peter M.

I'm Peter, a recovered alcoholic. Before we get going, I was brought to my attention that I'm giving page numbers from my American big book, and the Swedish big book is different page numbers, so I didn't know. So I'll just point to a chapter if I do that, and you guys can figure it out from there. Okay. Okay. We're going to go to questions, I guess, in a few moments. Just a couple of things I wanted to hit on as we move forward here. When we're working with others and we're passing on this message, the word God is going to come up. Spiritual way of living is goingto come up steps or pointers to this power. and trying to adequately describe this power through the use of words is insufficient. It creates a picture, it points, but to truly know that, you need to experience it. For example, if I said I went to, ifI talked to you about New Jersey and showed you pictures of New Jersey, I showed you images of the Jersey Shore, not what you see on TV. That's a whole other thing. But if I showed you pictures of the beach and the communities down there and talked to you how beautiful it is, you get an idea. But it really doesn't adequately describe what I experience until you go there and go to the beach and the food and the people. So when we talk about God, it's the same thing. But we're going to be talking about God to the new folks. And we should be talking a lot about God to the New Folks and about this way of life. And some people would bristle with antagonism because they're coming at God with old belief systems, old misperceptions and conceptions about God, about what God did or didn't do, etc., etc., based on their upbringing, their friends, even some of their AA stuff. Maybe some looking at some history books and saying, well, God, you know, that has to be let go of. and a book talks about letting go of old ideas in order to experience this new God which is the same God that's always been present but a new conception, a new idea about it and if we're having a problem with that I was sharing with my friend earlier because lots of folks will come up to me from time to time during a workshop and sometimes the men I sponsor because I was one of them when we talk about God I get a little tight or they get a Little Tight About It But I want to stop drinking, and I love AA, but I can't do the steps because I have a God problem. I don't believe in God. I believe in god, but he's mean, and he's cruel, and okay. So they tell me they don't belief in god. And I ask them the question, well, why are you coming to AA? And they look at me like, what do you mean? I'm an alcoholic, I know that. Why don't you go to the Knights of Columbus or some Elks Club or just go hang out on a corner or go to a gym or find a nice mate? I mean, what are you doing in Alcoholics Anonymous? Well, I'm an alcoholic. I want to stop drinking. But what is AA going to do? And I'm trying to get them. Well, AA is going to show me how not to drink. Got him. Oh, so AA is gonna show you how not drink. So we are a power greater than yourself because if we're going to show you how not to drink. I want to keep you from the next drunk. That means we're a power greater than yourself. This G-O-D, group of drunks, is going to give you directions, good orderly directions, G-o-D on how notto drink. Yeah, okay, so you believe in something. Now we can start. I don't even know what God is. I have no conception of God. I even know what God's about. Are you willing? Yes. Okay, now we can stop. In fact, some of the folks who have no conception of God are easy to work with. But that's going to come up, the God stuff. Now it's really interesting, and my friend and I were talking about this last night. I described what happened to me in the back of a hallway June 23rd, 1988. And I really wasn't too sure about this God. I was more of a God fighter rather than embracing God. But in that moment where I was faced with my mortality, if you will, because I had a feeling the next week I'm going to die, and I didn't want that for the very first time in my life, who do we call on? God. And it's interesting how when we make that sincere plea where there's no bargaining chips and we call to this power, whatever he or she or it might be, how somehow the door opens up when we knock. So we need to sometimes Sometimes remind the prospect about those things. You have a God problem? Let's talk about your last drunk and how horrific that was. What were you thinking? I don't know, I just didn't want to start. Who were you talking to? They're talking to God. They're taking to something other than themselves, most of them. Everyone has some sort of connection of God, a basic understanding of God. Our book talks about that in chapter 2, the agnostics. It's the way I'm born with brown eyes. I'm born with that spirit too the way he's born with blue eyes he's grown the way you're born with blonde hair whatever it might be the way I have arms and legs I'mborn with that spirit too it's part of who I be part of whom we be it's a connection as I said earlier I can't be separate from my hand my arm is not separate from my hands I'm a physical extension of that which is non-physical we all got it what has happened it's become obscured by pomp, calamity and worship of other things and most of the calamity isn't things that happen outside of us It's the things that are happening within us, between the ears, in the mind. That kind of calamity. If God was really God, I'd be rich, good-looking, and have a beautiful woman, and drive a Ferrari if God was working in my life. Oh, okay. If God Was Really God, I'd have X, Y, and Z. But I don't, so God's not around. There's no such thing as God. Or maybe we go through a divorce. Well, there's no God now. Or maybe something happens, we lose someone in our family. Well,there's no god. We've all done that. And we've used all the time external conditions to judge God. We've always looked for crack in the armor of God all the time. And as alcoholics, we're constantly doing that. Yet, we will treat people like God and God like people. And it looks like this. Joe's a carpenter Carlos is a carpeter I have a plumbing problem I go to Carlos he tells me how to fix pipes he knows nothing about pipes but he's Carlos he's a good guy so I'm going to listen to him and I go home and take the pipe directions and I flood my house out but I listen because Carlos is Carlos he's not a carpinter he's just a good guide right take as the gospel truth but when it comes to God oh God what does he know what does He know He only kept me sober it makes no sense how we do this stuff so as a sponsor my book says somewhere give me a second somewhere in here it says I can't find it that I can offer them having had the experience myself then I can offer them much practical advice. Having had the experience myself, I can author you much practical advise, including the God stuff. Which means if I flip that around, if I haven't had the experienced myself, I can order you no practical advice, I can ofter you fear-based insecure belief systems, which probably don't even work for me. But I want to look good so I'll give you something It's better than nothing. God forbid I should say, I don't know. I'm not sure. Let's go to him. He's a carpenter. He knows all about the wood stuff and how to build a house. Let's do that. So have I had the experience myself? Am I offering practical advice based on experience? Experientially, can I talk to you about God? Experientally, can i talk to living in the sunlight of the spirit? Experientially, can I talk to you about other people I've sponsored? Experientialy, can i talk to You about putting the family back together what's that look like? The same thing when i sit with men and i ask them questions it's based on your experience don't come at me with The mind because that's where the ego is free room and board and the ego bypass truth and give you an answer It's already set up for Right so based on my experience this is how it looks So I would ask, I'd say, Joe, based on your experience, talk to me about your phenomenon called craving. Don't give me something that the ego has already set up. Based on your appearance, how did this happen? Based on you experience, what does that look like? You narrowed a junk down to there's no wiggle room. And it's also very healthy when I'm asked a question or I hear something from the podium, I'm sitting out there, I will sit and say, okay, based upon my experience, here's my question. Based on my experience, I consider something. I reflect upon something. That's where the truth is, based on my experience. Based on my experience I picked up a drink I can't stop. Based on my experience I have a mental obsession, always had one taboos and based on my experience I've always felt disconnected not only from God but from everyone. My new experiences the obsessions been gone the phenomenal cravings are gone and I feel it connected. I feel one with God and therefore connected with you. That's the current experience based on experience, not something I read out of some psychology book that sounds profound and I'm going to go share it. That's all stroke in the ego. Don't need any of that. Okay. So I'm sitting with this drunk and it says, outline the program of action. Tell him what it looks like in a general way. Program of action. What does that look like? We're going to do a first step that's going to look like this. After they've done the reading, even prior to doing the reading. You're going right out of fourth step inventory, fear, sex, resentment. You're gonna share it with me. You're be making amends, be getting to meetings. Outline the program, specifically the program of action and I tell them about how I made a self-appraisal, took my inventory for the first time in my life and how I make amends straighten out the past. And I'm endeavoring to pass this on to him. If they want it, if they don't want it I'll get on, you know, take my sandals and move on to the next house. It's important for this person to realize that my attempt to pass us on to Him pays a vital part in my own recovery. I'm here to save my life too. This is part of what I do. I'm not looking for any awards or getting my picture on the front page of the newspaper. It's what I doing. I need to be working with others. I get to work with others I know I need to do this, I know I must do this but the mantra for me currently is I get you, I get the sponsor you, and get to write inventory, I'd get to go to a doctor I get two call a sponsor I get 2i get 2I get 2 get to bottom of the page it says your candidate may give risen Reasons why they need not follow all of the program. They may rebel at a thought of a drastic house cleaning which requires discussion with other people. Don't contradict these views. Tell him, where are they? Let's get where they are. I once felt the same way. Who wanted to tell anyone my entire life story? I don't even think this is going to work. And I have God problems. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I've been there. See, we got them. There's no way around this. They're in. On your first visit, tell him about the fellowship of AA. If he shows interest or she shows interest, loan him a copy of this book. Flip over to page, well, same chapter. It says if they're not interested in your solution, if they expect me to only be as a banker or help them with financial difficulties or nurse for their sprees, I may have to drop them. now on my page 96 it says this don't be discouraged if your if your prospect does not respond at once search out another alcoholic and try again i'm sure to find someone desperate enough to accept with eagerness what i offer we find it a waste of time to keep chasing a man or woman who cannot or will not work with you. If you leave this person alone, they may soon become convinced that they can never recover by themselves. To spend too much time on any one situation is to deny some other alcoholic an opportunity to live and be happy. Those are powerful words, by the way. So I work with these men and take them through this work. I need to be convinced where they are. alky or not and then we start working through the steps so they come to me and i i i start taking them through the stairs but they need to have had a home group by then and that's i just want to touch on home group for a moment what's my home group look like if i'm working with people hopefully they're going to be joining my home groups and as a sponsor and an upstanding member of our fellowship. What am I contributing to my home group? Am I gotten so out of control that I can't put chairs away? Have I gotten so egotistical that I cant make coffee one night? Am I greeting at the door? Behind that or underneath that, my home group, what kind of message is my homegroup sharing? Is it from this basic text? Or am am I in the middle of the road meeting? Nothing wrong with being in a middle-of-the-road meeting, but am I sharing about this basic text or am I rolling over with the rest of the group? See, we can't always preach to the choir. We need to be in those meetings and bless their hearts. I don't want to put those meetings down or make this weekend like we're better and they're not. That's not AA. We just have different experiences and more informed and staying true to the message in the book. That's how we get recovered. But maybe we're a member of a group where it's just don't drink, go to meetings, put the plug in the jug, make 90 meetings in 90 days. Okay, that's my home group. So am I going along with that and just rolling over and letting it go? Or am I gonna raise my hand and say, I have a new experience and catch a ton of resistance. They're gonna shoot you down. But how did I find the message? Because someone said, had the courage to say, hey, I have a new experience. It's from this big book. And you said, huh. Or you heard someone on a CD and went, I Have to Find This Person. What if they rolled over after being given this solution? My teachers took a risk, a positive risk. They caught hell for it. But I heard them. and I went searching for them. The same way the men I sponsor, many others say, hey, I heard what you said on a CD, changed my life. Hey, I came to a meeting, I love what you've said. God gave me the courage. Listen, God will give you whatever we need to step up to the plate, the courage, strength, and direction to work with others and to share truth and coming not from a spiritual moral hilltop but just coming from the trenches with a new experience. Hey, this is what worked for me. We can't deny God. God's going to move you, you're getting moved You can't say Well hold on God Let's rethink this No, you are going In fact there is greater pain In not changing than the change itself When I am sitting in a chair And not volunteering to share At every meeting But I'm sitting there and I'm saying Something is coming to me And it's usually that intuitive thought That inspiration It's not the ego thinking It's just that movement, and I need to put my hand up. Oh, I can't put my hands up. If I share from the book, no one's going to like me. They're going to give me hell after this meeting. If it's God, your hand's going up, and he will give you enough or it will give you enough, or she will give enough to share with empathy for others, for identification with others. And the best way to deliver that, I heard a guy I sponsor say one time in a meeting. It was very middle of the road and it was going around and they were sharing about steps, this strange way of doing steps, and he raised his hand in the most delicate way and he said, I have a different experience with this. He didn't say you're wrong and I might so I have an experience. And once he did that, he went right into the book. He still annoyed half the room. But he came out, I Have a Different Experience With This. It's from the book if i've become so or i am so attached to your or your or everyone's opinion of my share then be still and go to the work again attachments will kill me how could i sponsor someone well if i'm attached to if the prospects are not like me or not i sponsor you i got to get you to like me now nonsense. So if we're a member of a home group, share. And then you'll get a prospect and they'll go through the work and then they will get one. And the culture of the group will change. The spirit of the Group will start to change. We're always going to have people who are in this book and are very dangerous. And we're going to have people who are not in this book who are just as dangerous. And they're warring theologians. Our book warns against that. I've seen big bookers go to war with big booker's. It makes no sense. Where's God in this? Doesn't chapter 2 agnostics say, that this book will enable me to find a power greater than self which will solve my problem. This book will take me to God. When we're sponsoring people, don't worry how the prospect is going to get there. Just give them your experience. Give them these steps. Pass it on. The book will take them to God. It's all God orchestrating it anyway. But what has happened from time to time is I have a little different journey into the steps. Maybe I had different influences, but you and I are in the book, but we're going to fight about it. I interpret one word one way, you interpret a word a different way, and we're really in the big book. They're not. what's that am I willing to sponsor anyone or those people those are hotline big bookers I can't sponsor them or when they come to me and say do you hear they're coming to sponsor they want me to sponsor them what is that looking like can I get someone Joe middle of the road don't drink go to meetings put the plug in a jug who I've resented for 100 years shows up to me and says hey listen I heard what you said I'm dying can you help me can I sponsor him freely or am I deriving some sort of satisfaction that I got him he came to me turn him over to someone else or go through the steps write inventory on that I guess what I'm asking here in sponsorship how free are we how free do we want to be to truly help someone which is really one of our missions here. God, our spiritual wings go fly. How free are we? If I'm free now, how free do I want to be? Do I want it to be free? Do I get freer? Or have I gotten to a point of just resting on my laurels? I ate, that's enough, I'm good. As my sponsor Mark once said to me, he says, Peter, did you eat today? I says, yeah. He says, why? You ate yesterday. And he kept pushing me and pushing me and pushing my heart. Well, what happens if you don't eat? I'll get hungry. Well, then what happened? I'll probably get sick. And then what happens? I'll possibly die. Right. Well, what about our soul food? What am I doing to nourish the soul? Am I getting freer? Am I experiencing more of this God's abundance? And I get all of this. God gives freely, not so I can rub my belly and say, I'm full you go get yours, is to give you the whole thing, the entire thing, and be an aqueduct through me, out to you through me out to you, and you on to someone else give the whole thing away and continue to nourish this experience and get the soul food and what happens is and I've seen people who sponsor people who are really in the book, listen They can quote, page, line, the comma, the exclamation point. They just know this book. I know this Book. But they become robotic about it. And God forbid if you miss something, they're ready to go at you. That's not spiritual way of living. They're doing what they accuse others of. The middle of the road is to say don't drink and go to meetings and you don't need the Book. Two sides of the same coin. but truly waking up with this book we stand free and work with anyone even our enemies or so-called enemies so I had someone doing injustice to me or harm to me and I truly was an innocent bystander and because of their greed and selfishness the boom got leveled on me and I was upset I was hurt And then I was angry and then I Was hurt and then confused and so What do I do pray Forgive them father for they know not what they do right And I wrote my inventory And I share with my sponsor Here was my Any lens if they knocked on My door and says listen can you sponsor I'm sorry for what I did can I sponsor Them They caused a huge this person This person caused a Huge disturbance in my life can I sponsor him he says listen I really screwed up but can you sponsor me or can I say to hell with you after what you did go somewhere else how free am I if the words forgive them for they know not what they do can be said to his assassins I can forgive you for anything you've done isn't any lent without getting in too much to religion here because I don't want to do that. So where do I stand? Sponsorship, the responsibility is tremendous. The power that we get to do it is unlimited. But I better have had the spiritual transformation to go work with others because I got this guy showing up to my door who's dying. What am I going to do? They're vulnerable. They're untreated. They're ill. They're depending on me to save them. That's a tremendous amount of power, and the power is coming directly from God, therefore good, and will get him well. But if I'm not well, and he's coming to me, I'm responsible for what I give him. I take the hit for some people who die then. For example, back in Brooklyn, New York, there was a young fellow coming around. He was a heroin addict. Never drank. Heroin addict. And he was coming to AA. And they kept saying, keep coming back, keep coming back. Okay, that sounds good. But did anyone say, hey, listen, I'll take you to an N.A. meeting? I did. And how'd that happen? I raised my hand in the meeting and said, listen. We keep telling this guy, keep come back. He's not an Alki. He doesn't identify with us. I'll take him to an A.N.A meeting. Well, guess what? This guy overdosed in a park across the street from the meeting. It was a little triangle, little Park, and directly across the street was this big, big, fancy highfalutin meeting. If they saw a drunk, they probably wouldn't know what to do with this guy. This guy overdosed. They found him on a Sunday morning overdose with a spike in his arm across the way from the meeting, and everyone in the meeting went, oh my God, he didn't want it. To which I raised my hand and said, he doesn't want to. He's been coming here for years, relapsing, shooting dope and no one gave him the truth. You take the hit for his death because you want them to be well-liked rather than maybe ruffle some feathers and give truth. Well, they didn't like me. They didn't call on me anymore. I don't care. I really don't care. I need to be able to give a drunk the truth even if he never comes back to me anymore but at least you walk away and someday you'll say, at least he gave me the truth there was a gentleman and I'll wrap up, we'll get to Q&A there was the gentleman Jerry F he was a real old timer he was counselor at a treatment center that I went through seven times and my first few times in treatment Jerry had like a military crew cut he had the black glasses, you know thick glasses his shirt was pressed, very military he was impeccable right always neat perfect and he would sit in his office with a big book and he'd do all his little counseling lectures with the big book i hated jerry and i i would come in to choose you're back yeah are you done yet who wants to know i mean you know ridiculous responses i would give this guy i hated i used to see him as oh no he's on he's going to be working you know the shift Oh, no. Okay. When I went into my fifth treatment center, I was looking for Jerry Ford. I wasn't done yet. My seventh treatment center I was looking for, his name was Jerry Ford, he doesn't mind, he's gone home to God, but he says, use my name. It's okay. That's why I used his last name. I was look for the seventh treatment center, I made a beeline for Jerry Ford. You know why? Because he gave me the truth and he wasn't sugarcoating, he wasn't BSing me. He was armed with the facts. He was ready to look at me eyeball to eyeball and said, here's what you need to do. Here's what's wrong with you. And if you don't, you're going to drink and die. I could depend on him for truth. He would also tell me good job, good work. It wasn't about cutting me down. It was about good work and giving me a hug when I needed it and holding my hand through a couple of things. But he gave me the truth. And every one of my teachers in AA have been from that school. They know what to hold my hand and get my back, but they also know when to rip the cover off the ball and say you're full of baloney or look at it this way and not that way and challenge my belief systems. As sponsors, we need to challenge all the time. I love these men and all my sponsors have done that. Nowadays, they don't need to be so boot camp with me. Back then they did. But I still am attracted to the people in AA who have some depth and weight and are big enough to know when they don't know an answer, to go see him. Call up this guy. He knows, when I was going through a divorce, Mark sat with me and says, I've been married and divorced four times. I can talk to you about that. But there were some things within my divorce that he didn't know about. And he says, call up this guy. Same thing. Get him. That's sponsorship. You know, walking people through these things. So. How many people sponsor people? Show of hands. That's great. How many people need a sponsor, don't have one? Seriously. Who doesn't have a sponsor? Okay. That young, hold it way up. She needs a sponsor. Huh. How many of you have a partner? How many, how many people have a sponsored but they know knowing, but they knew they need to really find another sponsor? Okay. Good. Good. Here's what we do. It's worked for me. You guys pray? You pray? In prayer, ask your heavenly father. or your God please show me a teacher the prayers can be as I like to pray with a positive I call it a positive prayer thank you God for showing me a Teacher a Teacher or a Sponsor I like the word Teacher because he or she already might be in this room go to God thank Him for that because they're out there and keep working with that Father show me a Teacher Father show me a Teach Father show me a Teacher thank you for showing me a Teacher and it will be over a cup of coffee If we were in a workshop like this, where would it be that you'll connect? And you'll have a teacher. Why would God deny you a teacher to take you to Him? Not going to happen. He'll give you the teacher, the vehicle, the instrument, the person to work with. So how's our home group doing? Where's my current experience? How am I doing right now? What do my prospects look like? How are they doing? Are they going to any lengths? How's that looking? Where am I in the circle, in the triangle? I can locate myself. When was the last time I went through the 12 steps? I want my prospects to be calling me all the time. Am I calling someone too? When was The Last Time I Had a New Experience via the 12 Steps? I've been rocketed again into 10, 11, and 12. How's That Looking? there's lots more I'd like to talk about with this here but because of time we have to wrap this up and so I'll be here for a little while if you guys want to ask me some questions but right now we're going to shift into Q&A so I think we have a basket or something with questions and if I can't answer it, see Carlos Okay. Okay. So, first question. I've just started sponsoring a guy and I've had frequent contact with my own sponsor for advice. My own sponsor has presently had a relapse after six years. How do I handle that? He's not your sponsor. Let's start with that, can't. Maybe he'll sponsor you down the road, but right now he needs to get well. So what, the way he or she was there for you, you are now there for them. and we don't look at it like how could you do this to me they're alcoholic and they fell short on their spiritual practices so we offer the same help that we would want if god forbid we were drunk or when we were drinking right and guide them to the places that they need to get to besides they may be treatment. Now, that sponsor may not want to hear anything from you because you're the prospect. You don't tell me what to do and may be full of shame and guilt about this, humiliated by this. Maybe not, but understand that if you get pushed away and he or she goes elsewhere. It's okay. Just to get them well. You need to find a new teacher until they're up and running again. That's why it's important that, you know, we have checks and balances. How's my sponsor doing? Does he have a sponsor? How are they doing? Are they still excited about AA the way I am excited about AAA? Okay. And then talk to them when the time is right. Not to pry, but what was going on with you prior to that drunk. You know, maybe you can help them. They can help you. No judgments here. This is alcoholism. You Know, most of us on the path are done drinking for good and all. But these casualties of war, they happen. Okay? I hope that helps a little bit. Okay. You guys have the neatest handwriting in the world, I swear. This is incredible. I gave a guy my phone, I'm going to apologize for my handwriting afterwards. How do I approach someone who admits she may have problems with alcohol but thinks she can't be alcoholic because of age status, et cetera? Age status, etc. I love this. Who and who... I can't read this. Okay, let's start with the first part. How do we approach someone who admits she may have problems with alcohol but thinks she can't be an alky because of age and status? Well, they may not be willing to get to that place of you even sponsoring them yet. They may be here on some research mission to find out what we're about. Probably the spirit has brought them here. They probably are. But the mind and the ego has got this big fortress, built a castle around it to protect and defend. But if they're asking for help, take them to AA. You know, listen, open mind. If they ask you to sponsor them, this is your call. The book says if you're convinced, you may not be convinced that they're out because you're not required to work with them. But sometimes, if you move them through the steps, right? Let them look at the first 43 pages of the book. Answer some questions. Take statements turned into questions. Give them an assignment if they even complete that. If they're not alchemists, they probably won't. But you'll get a clearer idea and their truth will be delivered to them on a silver platter as to what they are. Just by going, by the way, through doctor's opinion, they'll find out their truth. Take statements in doctor's opinions and flip them over. To questions. Does this happen to you based on your experience? Do you experience the phenomenon called craving? Did you experience this? How about the mental obsession? Never had it. Never had It. Never had I. Based on your experiences, yeah, never had it, you got the truth served to you and to her or to him. Okay? Simple. Okay. I've also had people that they weren't sure about this and walk them through, and by the time they got done, they were very clear. Their idea of an alcoholic was something other than what the truth really was. See, the truth is true until we find out it no longer isn't. Okay. As far as status goes, that's bogus. That's a lie. Park Avenue, park bench, alcoholism doesn't care. Because the Park Avenue man or woman will be on a park bench in a short time. So, okay. I have problems with being willing to work with others from time to time. I really or rarely have to pray, and it feels like I have to rest. Lost God. I simply get tired, then bored, fed up with the book. My wish is to be active, and life's so wonderful sometimes I forget what saved me. Okay. Okay. Grateful for advice and thank you for coming. So you flatlined in AA. And the question, one of the things is let's locate ourselves. Where are we in the triangle? Am I getting to meetings? Have I had a new experience with the 12 steps? This is assuming, by the way. Let me back this up. Assuming you're not suffering from any kind of clinical depression or physical condition. Because sometimes we'll get that. We'll find out, hey, I'm bipolar or I have this other thing or I suffer from depression. I can't get out of bed. I don't even want to look at the book. Understandable. So when was the last time we got to a doctor or maybe a psych doctor and just got a little evaluation? Let's get that out of the way." how's my diet? How are things doing? Am I exercising my body? Because when I'm done, I get really lethargic and lazy and depressed. So now that we got that out of the way, when was the last time you had a new experience via 12 Steps? Do you have a sponsor that you call regularly? Why are you not excited about this? Are you getting to enough meetings? Are you going to the same exact meetings day in and day out? I know what Joe's going to share. I know Mary's going to share. Let's go home. Am I going to the meetings on the other side of town that are really sick and suffering? Am I dragging myself to a conference once in a while? Am I working with some new folks? Am i doing any service? All of these things locate me as to where I am or where I'm missing in the circle of China. Am i MIA in AA? Right? How is that looking? One of the things we always want to do, I still do for many, many years now, is in prayer, is thank you God for the willingness to go to any length. Let the willingness come from God rather than self. Self must die in order to experience successful living. We need to experience the death of self. Less self, more God. God's the power, not me. So let me go to my Heavenly Father. Thank you God, for the willingness to go to any lengths. Keep working with that. Well, that mustard seed of willingness will be ignited and I'll find myself doing things that two or three weeks prior I didn't even want to be bothered with. Why am I not excited about Alcoholics Anonymous? Now, we sometimes hit that place where a meeting's boring. Sometimes my own home group is kind boring here goes Joe again is Mary looking for a date again or vice versa right but it happens my inventory says why are you sitting on the sideline taking people's inventory Pete oh okay when there was a new guy in the back looking like he was scared to death being his first mean that's my Pay attention. Go work with some new folks. Excited about this. One last thing. In this question, he kind of referred to when I first came in. And I'll hear this from folks. I want to get back to where I was. Can't. It's a new moment, a new experience, a New Now. and why settle for where you where you were when there's a whole world of abundance waiting a new experience new excitement it's kind of like going to God and saying God if you really love me you'll give me a Rolls Royce and God says okay but I was going to give you two but here here's one Or God, I remember when I first met her We were passionate and we were blissful And kind of, you know Just in this place Take us back to where we were I forgot when we met We were absolutely flat broke I don't want to really go there What I want is God give us a new experience together And God's saying Okay, go But go to God Right? Okay Describe an alcoholic No, read the big book You have Okay You have Now, maybe you can help me with this. But I could... Okay, you have... What does that mean? You have consequences. Consequences? Like, please. Oh, now it makes sense. Okay, I've had... Okay, so I have consequences, I think, like the police and you're in rehab but you don't know if you have the illness. Ah, okay. So there was some consequences with the police and rehab. If I'm getting this right, if I'm missing these questions, just pull me aside after the meeting. But you still don't know if you have this illness. How do you know for sure? Okay, great question. How do I know I'm alcoholic? Go through the first 43 pages of the book. Grab someone after this meeting. But I'll answer that question because it sounds like someone who's in an alarmed state here. A phenomenon called craving, a physical allergy. It's an abnormal reaction to alcohol. The craving for alcohol is intensified, never satisfied. See, Uncle Joe and Aunt Mary or the wife or the husband will go to a restaurant and have a glass of wine, maybe two. Sometimes they even get drunk. But they'll have that glass and they'll say, hey, I'm driving tonight. No more. They can shut down when they want to. You and I can't. There comes a point, whether it's from the first one out or at some point where even though we may want to shut it down, we can't, it's an abnormal reaction. We crave more alcohol. The normal reaction is to get sick from alcohol, throw up, vomit, do all those things and nurse a hangover. Or when we're starting to feel it and we're starting to get kind of woozy, saying, whoa, I'm drunk. I've got to stop. I've Got to get to work tomorrow. But the alky, even though they know that, give me one more. One more. And we wake up the next day, keep it going, and then we get to a place where we're just drinking. While we're drinking and while, especially when we are not drinking, we have an obsession of the mind. An idea that overrides every other idea. Got to drink, got to drink. Gonna drink, get money to drink? Gotta drink, later we're gonna drink. I'm gonna drink, I'm gotta drink. Honey, can you take me to the grocery store? Sure, that's gonna cut into my drinking time. Little Junior's gonna play soccer. When? What time? Oh no, that means I don't drink for two hours. See, everything's drink, drink, constantly drinking. And that mind will take us back to that craving. That's two things. Obsession of the mind. You count money. I don't have, I'll use American money, I don'T have $40 American in my pocket. That's two pints I have. We count money by pints. How much, right? Right? So the obsession to drink, the phenomenon called craving, this abnormal reaction, the cravings intensified, never satisfied. All in doctor's opinion, you'll see this. And the third thing is that basically most of the planet suffering from is a spiritual malady. That's a sense of disconnection, if you will, from God. Therefore we live life on life's terms rather than life on God's terms and our inner separation, not literally, from God is manifested out there. It's life run on self-will. Man's got to do what man's got do. Gotta do what I do. Grab, get, go. Fear-based, insecure. That gets manifested and And a lot of our relationships suffer because of that. Now, you watch CNN news tonight. You see, well, the whole planet's got spiritual malady. We're mad. My next life I'm coming back as a politician and clean all this nonsense up. I've had it up to here. World politics. Let's not go there. But we watch CNN. You say, well this makes no sense. And I'm watching your news. I'm going, I'm spiritual but kill them. You know, but it's OK because we're us. Right. It makes it's nuts. The whole planet has gone mad. Right? Well, they all got spiritual malady. But I have that. And what do I do with that spiritual maladies? I pour alcohol on it and I try to control and enjoy, which is makes no sense. But once I drink, Uncle Joe can pour alcohol on his spiritual malady, his disease and discomfort, and he feels it, gets a sigh of relief, and he drinks to get drunk. Drinks not to get drank. He's okay. The social lubricant. I can't do that because once it goes down, I'm drinking. I don't know when I'm going to stop. I have no idea, nor do you. Okay? Make sense? Yes. Okay. All right. Is it wrong to judge other people's AA style? Only I can do that. Is it, is it wrong to judge others' AA style even if my own experience showed me it didn't work? Let me never not judge my brother and sister because to the extent that I judge you is how I'm going to be judged. With me? see I can disagree with you you and I can have not argue we can challenge each other and we can get into a debate about this sometimes at a group conscious meeting well I see the tradition this way I see it this way okay a group is going this way I think it's good that let's have a debate great things come out of we can agree to disagree that's okay I can challenge I'll challenge from this podium I'll challenging from the floor I'll challenged right the way I've been challenged but let me never not sit in judgment of you or be critical of you, that's not spiritual, is it? Now the thing about, I don't want to talk on both sides of my mouth, but if I go to a meeting and Joe is sitting there drunk and I say, Carlos, Joe is drunk, is that a judgment? No. It's just the truth. He's drunk. But if I say what a loser, Carlos. Joe's drunk again. I can't believe this idiot, you know, he's got a wife home. Oh, my God. Now I'm judging. I shouldn't even be in that guy's company because I can'T help him. See the difference? So I'm really not talking out of both sides. I just cleared that up a bit. So judgment is for the sick, not for the well. And we love others who judge because we all get in there and judge everybody. They sit in the back, not here, but they sit in a back row. not you guys. A drunk person or high comes to the meeting and makes some newly sober people uncomfortable. Who should leave? Wow. I was at a meeting in Brooklyn, and we had these guys come in like from under the bridge. They were Bowery guys, right? And this part was kind of a nice part of town. And they would come down, a couple of them, sometimes three of them, and they reeked. They weren't clean. They were drinking in the streets. And they came down to the meeting because they would bump some cigarettes off of people. They would maybe get a couple dollars, a cup of coffee or they liked the donuts or the cake. They'd get something and off they'd go. Occasionally they'd stick around a little while. But if they were sitting here and you were sitting there, it was tough to be around them. So they came down to the meeting one time, and they were drunk. And a couple of women in this group said, oh my God, they're drunk. Oh. And I went, but it's AA. Where are you? No one should have to leave. When AA started, I obviously wasn't around in our early days of AA, but when we study our history and you speak to the old timers who are around, we detox right here. We take you to a doctor, maybe get a vitamin shot or something, or maybe spend a couple of days in a hospital. If you had that kind of money, because back then no one had money, unless you were old money, we sat right in the rooms and we nursed you through. No one left. If someone comes to an AA meeting and is a full-blown heroin an addict and has nowhere to go. Okay, don't depend on them sharing. You shouldn't even be worried if they do share. They're brand new, they're sick, they are addicted to some other substance. Be there for them. Take them to a hospital detox. Take them to maybe another fellowship, an NARCA meeting. But you can't kick them out. This is the only place of refuge they have. Now we don't expect them to be upstanding members or even members of our fellowship because they have another deal going on. But we never... The thing about singleness of purpose, by the way, it's gotten so screwed up like we're kicking people out. No, we're not. We're going to invite you lovingly to the fellowship that specifically deals with your addiction in the fifth tradition of our 12 and 12, so you make a stick to thy last. And if there are some other heroin users in this AM meeting, We'll say, hey, go see this guy. He's a heroin user too. You guys can get connected. You girls can get disconnected. But here we're going to talk about alcohol. Okay, we got that. We're clear on that. But it doesn't mean we're kicking people out. Just respect our house. Like when I come to your house, I'll take my shoes off at the front door unless you say otherwise. I respect your house. Respect our house! We don't have to ask anyone to leave or kick anyone out, especially if they're new and they're loaded. If you're that damn concerned, then take him to a hospital. And stop being a bleeding deacon. Really. I've seen too much of that. Old timers or even young people. You believe this guy? You know, he's high. Okay, well do something about it. Don't moan in the corner. Get off your lazy 40-year sober rear end and pick him up and take him to your local detox. He may be sponsoring your son one day. Oh. Don't get me started. Either God is everything or else he is nothing. Can God and ego coexist? How? God is responsible for everything that's part of me when I'm on a spiritual path there's a place for that when I am not, there isn't God has made me as I am all the little intricate wiring and all the things that are going on up there so I can't say well God didn't create that God created me with all my cracks in the armor But can they coexist, easing God out? How? If I'm on a spiritual pet, that will be used when it's needed. In a positive way. The same way God will use my defects to help others. Well, my arrogance is really getting in the way. I've got to have God remove arrogance completely. well maybe not, maybe it just needs to be tweaked because that way of delivering a message may reach someone who was unreachable until you showed up so maybe I'm loud, I don't mean me, but maybe I am loud or I am arrogant that might get through my experience to answer this question is it's there. It's created. I am created by my father, but there has never been a successful time in my life where they co-existed. Now, someone may say, hey, in order to do this in front of lots of folks, you need to have some sort of ego. Perhaps they're right, but that's maybe proper use of the will that they're talking about. Got a question? Okay. Okay, we'll go right to it. I frequently pass by a park bench with Alkies drinking. Can I help them and how? Great question. Perhaps, depending on the Alkie. I've had those folks. There was a guy in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, where I went up to him and gave him a meeting list, and he went like this, I don't need this, and he cursed and threw it. And I've gone to people who just listen, then they ask you for money. But I always can plant the seed, whether they listen or not. See, because I'll go up to Carlos's, we'll use Carlos again. Carlos is the guy drinking on a park bench. Sorry. And I see him every morning on my way to work. And something moves me to stop. Not because I'm going to look good, but something moves me to go do it. And I sit down or talk to him about drinking, and he's kind of in and out of this fog. But I don't know if I've planted a seed, and I don'T know if he'll show up in AA, but I've done my part. Maybe I put a meeting list in his pocket or on his bench, give him a couple of dollars, and create an AA friend. Maybe he's been in AA for forever and thinks it doesn't work. So I'm always for planting seeds. You don't know when they're going to grow. We're not supposed to know when they're gonna grow. But we're certainly responsible for taking the action and keeping the ground fertile. Probably everyone in this guy's life has given up on him and you get an intuitive thought, maybe I shouldn't. If I was on the park bench, I'd probably want you to stop. You know how it is when we're there, right? The ego, again back to ego and God, The ego won't allow me to reach out and say, help me. But you know when we're in that place of loneliness, inside we're screaming, please, somebody, help me. Just pull me out of this. And even though I'm saying stay away from me, stay away form me, there's a peaceman saying, please put your arms around my neck and get me out this, please. Okay. How can I change, I'm quoting, piss and moan meeting by sharing a solution without expectations that because of my share it's going to change, but start sharing. Don't roll over. Delicately, lovingly, you'll get assertive and passionate, but share. I have a different experience with this. You need to have a thick skin, somebody rolling their eyes, somebody walking out on you, somebody coming right at you. I did a meeting in Staten Island, New York, and I was sharing on my experience going through the steps, and there was an old-timer. It's really interesting. He had part of it right because when I first went to Staten Island, I walked into a meeting. He ran across the room and said, how you doing, young fellow? Welcome. Never seen you around before. You don't see that being done anymore. And he says, he introduced himself. I introduced myself to him and I says, I'm sober X amount. He's, oh, I thought you were noise. No, no, no. We don't see that anymore. That same guy, I am doing a meeting and I am sharing and he is sitting there like this. You know that gleam? And he had his posse next to him. It was like Bill W. meets the mafia on the way to an AA meeting. They were all there, the pinky ring, sunglasses, gold jewelry, you know, looking like they're going to hit, right? And I share. So he shares, I've seen guys like you come and go for years. You get into this book too soon, you start doing those steps, you all get drunk. You don't impress me. And then the rest of his guys did worse than that. And the meeting, oh, we come here to talk about our problems. You come here talking about steps. What do I do with that? When I was standing here and he was about where you are, I swear, I felt like this buffer, this thing get between him and I. Safe and protected. and I was able to accept that and I shared gave some feedback on it it went nowhere I did a conference in the east coast I don't want to say where because then they'll know it but I did an conference in the east cost and I'm 10 minutes into the share and the two back rooms it's about 5-600 people this thing the two Back rows got up and filed out because I talked about I'm grateful to the big book and the 12 steps and I was on that kind of a roll talking, giving my gratitude to this and God and the twelve steps and I got up and walked out the taper tells me you should tone it down a little bit at AA what do I do with that? nothing I'm supposed to deny God so when we go to these what you call piss and moan meetings. Okay, fine. Remember they are very ill. So I share without judgment. Maybe I'll get one prospect. Maybe I'm there for a reason. Maybe they don't know any other way. Who knows? Maybe they're not alcoholics. But let me go share my experience. Okay, we have a few more. How do you work with people who admitted they are powerless and their life is unmanageable big but, but, have trouble coming to believe in a creator. Okay, great question. So what is the trouble that they're having in coming to believe in this power? Step two says came to believe. It's an arrival point. They're looking at it from the past tense, that you're going to come to believe, you're gonna get to this place. They're saying, hey, we came to a place of believing in God. They didn't say we walked in and believed in God, Some of us do, but it's an arrival point. That prospect, that new person needs to know that. Yeah, I'm an alcoholic man. My life's completely unmanageable, but this come-to-believe deal I'm not sure about. Let them know that's okay. Remember, we talked about that earlier. I once felt as you do. But go back to why are you in AA? Group of drunks, good early direction. So you believe in something. Let's move forward. Right? They're believing. Their butts are parked here. They're believe in something. So you can begin with very little or nothing. What is in the way of them and God? Inventory that. Let them write about that. It's probably based on old belief systems and old circumstances and consequences in their life. Like, God took my mom when I was 14, so God is not a loving God. God is cruel. God turned Peter Marinelli into a drunk, and at one time a drunk and a dope fiend. There is no God. I'm poor. I'm a drunk. I'm homeless. Took mom. Where's God? There is none. I use that to figure out God. In my religion, the Catholic religion, priests have been uncovered of doing horrific things. There is not God. No, those are individuals. God is God. I'm an individual. Not knowing that this path of destruction I was leaving, boomerang me, took me right back to God and doing his work and loving God with every fiber of my being. Okay. Are we okay? You guys want to cut loose or are you still with me? You're okay? Keep going? Okay. Does a sponsor offer friendship to the sponsee? What is the difference between friendship and friend? We talked about this earlier. On the front end, I mean, it's nice to have a friendship. But on the frontend when I'm working with someone, not that I'm cold or callous. Friendship is someone you completely trust and rely upon and have an emotional intimacy with. It's not just a long guy. It's a bond, a friendship, and I had to learn the difference between acquaintances and friendships. Besides my brothers and my dad, I'm probably missing one or two. Besides my brothers and my dad, I have four friends in my life that I trust with my life. Literally trust with My Life. Four guys back home. Out of them, there's two guys who I would go off a cliff with with a blindfold. And as far as my dad and my brothers, I would do that immediately. Because I know they got my back. Those are friends. and they can do that with me. I have a lot of acquaintances that will become friendships. But to sponsor on the front end, I'm the sponsor, I'm not the sponsor. I'm your teacher, you're the student. Let's see what evolves from that. The fourth step, how long should it take? Depends on what the Spirit has for you. Two extremes. Oh, one extreme. I was in Maine doing a conference. Guy came up to me. He was wound up tighter than you could imagine. It's nice to meet you, Peter. Can I talk to you? I have some questions for you. I'm in this fourth step. I don't know what to do. He had something like, you know, a few thousand names. And he was writing for like six months. I wanted to beat up the sponsor. That's the extreme. Let's get at resentments. Let's go back through our lives. We don't have time to talk about a fourth step. But even if we have to, like I saw my sponsor do right now, if we're really short on time and you need power now because lack of power is your dilemma, give me ten names, five names, something that's who's eating at you right now? Who's turning your stomach? Who's got rattling in your brains? Let's get them resolved right now. And we'll move forward. Now, I don't believe in five names will do it. But for now it will. Really, the way I work with people, I know I was going to get into this, I have them go back through their lives, and I list names. Some people it's 20, some people it'S a hundred, but I will shut it down after a certain amount because that's ego coming in through the back door. And we do it through all four columns. Most guys come up with about 40, 50, 60 names. Okay, good, let's keep moving. Okay. I don't believe in playing God with just five names and that's enough. You may be so sick where that's all you come up With. Okay, let'S move. Okay? But watch them with the time. Watch them. If they're dragging, give them a little kick in the butt. Okay? Let them move. Okay. If your sponsee relapses, what do you do? We talked about that earlier. Oh, wait. Your sponsea relapsed is what you do. What lens are they willing to go to? You don't have to drop them. Maybe you take them to a hospital detox. Maybe they may be going on a drunk for a while. They may have some more relapsers in them standing at the door. If they come back and they're willing to go to any lens, they need to, again, touch step one. They need to revisit that stuff and get clearer. Some people will take them right back to where they were in the work. That depends on the individual. I will, if they need a detox, go. I just had a guy get drunk on me not too long ago. Sent him right to the hospital. He was secretly eating pills. And he looked a little loopy, and I pressed him, but he says he was fine, and it blew up. And we found out he was doing it for a while, even made an AA birthday cake loaded on oxys. Right? And it blew up with the drinking and the oxys, and so he's going to treatment. You want me to sponsor you? That's an any length. You're going to treat me. You're on pills, man. That can be fatal. You're gone away. Get medical attention. When he comes out, I'll work with him if he wants me. And we're going go right back to step one. He needs to touch that. Okay? Have you been in the mob? Tell us your story. Is that what that says? Have you been in What was that? In the wall? No, in the mob, yes. Have you been in the mob tell us your story. I can't tell you that. Who wants to know? Back home, there were some guys like that, and they would say, hey, what's your name? And you'd lean over and say, was he writing a book? You know, just ask your name. Like, no one knows nothing. You can't say anything. I'm getting into my New York lingo here. I'll get out of trouble, okay? Do you need to explain how any lengths look like for the newcomer? I like to, but you can't explain what any lengths looks like. Our book says we outline the program of action, And that is a sense of looking at what any lens is going to look like. And it's going to be writing inventory, sharing with me, going out and making amends. Give them a description of what it looks like. But any lens you really can't describe because any lens is different for different people. And God will reveal what any length looks like for you. It might be just any length might be just reading the first hundred sixty four pages for you that's a snap of going out make amends to the ex-wife might be the any lens. It might be sponsoring that fall down ugly drunk. We don't know. Different lines for different people, but I need to be willing to go there. Need to be will to go that even though I don't what it's going to look like, sound like, feel like, none of my business. My job is to chop wood and carry water. That's all I got. Peace. Thank you. Thank you.