He Named His Disease Victoria and Told Her to Shut Up — Tommy

We believe that alcoholism is a disease and that Alcoholics Anonymous is one solution to that disease. I'm here to bring you the voices of its members. Everyone that comes on the show, including myself, is an active member and has found recovery in the rooms of AA. As you listen, please take what works for you and leave the rest. good morning my name is tommy i am an alcoholic i have a sobriety date of february 20th 2022 i'm eternally grateful for that day that is when i was put into a program of action that's for sure how it started out for me. You know, my story comes from Orange County. I was born and raised in Anaheim, California to a loving family, parents still together, two older sisters. You know life was pretty good as a child. I can't really have you know instances of where I wasn't getting what I wanted. I was well taken care of. I grew up in the Catholic Church, so every Sunday was a journey to Mass to where I usually did not like going. I would rather just be at home, but we did that. And so religion and structure and, you know, I'd say I learned a lot of good morals and values through the church, but that has always been something that was instilled in me and there was a time in my life where I really wanted to turn my back onto it because things weren't going my way and I wanted to blame that as the sole reason come to find out through the program of Alcoholics Anonymous I needed to rekindle a new power greater than myself and I could make it whatever I want it to be. And that was freeing to me, especially new in the program, because I liked to hang my hat on the fact that I grew up Catholic. I grew Up in the church. I already have this. And it was told to me really early by someone who was instrumental in my early recovery. He told me, you know, if that was sufficient, if that Was good enough for you, then why are you here right now? And it kind of just like turned the light on for me of just like, wow, OK, something needs to change. Right. And that's everything. As a child, I played sports. I was really involved in, I don't know, after school activities. My sisters played softball and Girl Scouts, and we were always go, go, go. At the same time, I suffered with a lot of anxiety. My dad worked really hard and he would come home and he would be upset. He would be angry, and he would be stressed out. Understandably now, I didn't understand at the time. My mom, she kind of was the rock, I would say. She would take us to doctor's appointments in school every day, and she was a stay-at-home mom for a long time. Again, I mentioned anxiety. I was diagnosed with OCD, ADHD, fourth grade. My sisters struggled with mental health. My mother was also a victim, I guess, or she just lives with mental health as well. And at that age, I know, 2000s-ish, you know, it still is, I think, but to be put on some type of medication. Fourth, fifth grade, here I am, a little kid getting put on Adderall. And this pretty much sprung me into a realization or what I thought at the time that I needed a pill to always make me feel better, right? If I was feeling a certain type of way, I needed medication. And that was my mentality for a long, long time. And I hated the way those medications made me feel, but I had to take them. That was the doctor's orders. So school did not do well, did not enjoy it. I was a really hyper kid. The medication calmed me down. It was difficult for me to pay attention. I would get in trouble. I was class clownish, always in constant fear of like that report card coming home. So like fear, always that evil and corroding thread. It touched me as a young child and it's, and it rained throughout my entire life always kind of felt off um black sheep kind of vibe like i didn't belong like i was never a part of even though i you know i look back and i was you know i had friends but that feeling which i know today is most like the spiritual malady of feeling off you know and I tried to fill that with anything but god I searched for acceptance my entire childhood and even into my adult life probably around seventh or eighth grade people start maturing and you're around substances I would say and I got introduced to marijuana for the first time. And it was something that I was always like kind of intrigued by because I didn't think I mentioned this yet, but my dad, not an alcoholic, but would come home from work, drink a six pack of beer, Miller Lite, my mom, two glasses of Chardonnay. And I knew that when they had maybe around four beers or maybe that first glass of wine was down, everything was chill. And I looked at my family members, even my aunts and uncles, every family function, alcohol was present. And i always look at that as that's cool, right? They are doing what adults do, they're having fun laughing. And when they're not on that, they're different people. And so i always was intrigued. Even before that, i would always smell this like kind of foreign substance coming from my dad's shed out back. Come to find out me being a little kid would find it not knowing what it was marijuana obviously fast forward here i am seventh eighth grade now i'm introduced to it yes i want to try that i've always been one with the mentality where i wanted to try everything you know i was raised with parents who you know are kind of hippie-ish they were listening to the rolling stones and the doors and that whole counterculture kind of thing was something that really struck my eye and I wanted to try everything. Even at that age, not knowing what anything was, I knew I wantedto try it. So here it is in front of me. Try it. Fall in love with it instantly, right? This takes me out of what I'm feeling in the moment. Now I do feel a part of this is awesome. Little did I know I would spend the rest of my life chasing these feelings that i first had when i tried any substance really so now i have this idea like hey this makes everything better i want to do this every single day so i go into high school i play sports i kind of put that stuff on the back burner i wanted to be liked more than i don't know someone who excelled in school or did well in sports like that didn't matter to me anymore I just wanted to be popular and how I found popularity or how I found acceptance through other people was kind of being I don't know the goofy kind of Spicoli stoner kid from Orange County and everything kind of fell into place with that persona if it was either around the burnout kids and I was the stoner but if I was around the band kids I could talk about how I played instruments or if I was around sports guys I could talk about sports you know so I was very adaptive which a lot of us are but the chameleon persona was something that I was able to do as well whatever you wanted me to be I was that person right and through high school just exposed to a lot more stuff and again I'm not I was never one to say no, and I wanted to try everything. And I would say searching out like concerts and music festivals, and now here I am going to raves in like 10th and 11th grade, and it's just absolutely accepted for you to do drugs. And i wanted to partake, right? I liked how it was making me feel. So any type of hallucinogenic party drug, like that was something that I was really intrigued. And along with the marijuana, I was full-blown addicted to these substances in 11th grade and my family knew they could tell like my behavior was a lot different and they wanted to help me. And I did not want to help. I did Not feel like there was an issue. And I want to say in 12th grade, my mom started taking me to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, like taking me into an old hospital, going down into the basement, kind of the classic, you know, what you would think of an AlcoholicsAnonymous meeting. And, and I would go in there and I was full of judgment. I was like, I'm not like these people. These guys are drinking alcohol here i am doing this other stuff i instantly wanted to separate and then there were times when i wanted to feel a part of and i would lie right i would die about what i was doing and they would look at me and they i'm sure that they could pick up on these things you know stories were very outlandish but i did not take that seriously and like that's a red flag moment you know having my family put me in therapy and you know drug and alcohol counseling and taking me to meetings at that age like there's something definitely out of the ordinary i would say around that time 12th grade you know was introduced to heavier stuff i would say more opiates low-grade vicodin orco that kind of stuff and that was what i really fell in love with but was it readily available for me no so if it was there i would take it other than that I'm just drinking alcohol, smoking weed. I don't know how I was able to graduate. Actually, I do. My mom put me in night school and pushed me that last semester to a point where I was able to get my diploma. And I watched all of my friends go to universities and pursuing careers, military, all this kind of stuff. And I was lost, right? I never had real purpose in like, I would talk to the guidance counselors and they'd be like, what do you want to do with your life? And I'm like, I don't know. That was my classic answer. I just don't have a purpose. I don' t know what I want to deal with life. And I carried that one for, I mean, up until I got sober, I didn't know what i wanted to do. And the only thing that I was finding, you know, solitude with was the substances. You know, I graduated high school, go to community college, drop out right away, maybe after a few weeks, It just wasn't for me at the time, right? I wanted to party. I wanted it to be with my friends. I wanted what I thought was cool. School was not cool. Drugs and alcohol, very cool. And, you know, it progressed. Those few years after I graduated high school, probably 18 to 21, things really took off for me. i progressed with the opiates soon enough here i am 22 years old you know i had been kicked out of apartments family didn't want anything to do like relationships were broken at this point to a point where i'm living in my honda civic delivering pizzas and using heroin thinking life is great having nowhere to use the restroom in the morning or to shower each day but i'm still content because I had my substance. And it all came crashing down one night when I had totaled my car under the influence, went through a wall, could have really injured myself, more importantly someone else. And there was a moment of clarity and I was like, I need some help. And I thought that I had enough willingness at that time to try something new, which I was able to pursue that i called my parents woke up at their house the next day not really knowing what happened and here i am going through the worst withdrawal of my life not really experiencing those feelings you know but my parents were so naive to it all they were like well you're not just gonna lay on the couch you're gonna find a treatment center and so that week was definitely very rough but i wanted a change right i wanted something better i felt like i had hit a bottom okay so Fast forward a week, the withdrawals are a little better. I find a treatment center in Anaheim, six-month program, pretty strict work, go to groups, not a lot of family contact, but there wasn't a whole lot of accountability and the 12 steps weren't really pushed. and I was able to, you know, hang on to a lot of my character defects, manipulation, sneakiness, dishonesty, like all these things were just still very prevalent. And even though that I was sober for the six months and then I ended up staying another six months, you give me, I don't know, three or four months after I left that program, as soon as it was in front of me again, I went right back to it okay and there I am at 23 probably around 23 to 25 things just got really bad in and out of sober livings detoxes and then being homeless and that was that cycle I would go into detox I would convince one of the guys who were visiting me there to pay for maybe a week or a month of sobering and I would make all these empty promises that I'm going to get back on this i'm gonna go to meetings you know i had some kind of seed of what alcoholics anonymous was but i had never been fully bought in and i was able to talk the talk and i would give all these guys false hope and i Would go right back to it right there was no sense of structure or accountability with any type of my life um through that time like i said things got bad things got very bad to a point where i didn't know what else to do i was about to be like fully homeless like Every option that I had had been burnt, like every bridge had been burnt. I think that's how it goes. And I make a decision to go move up into the mountains in Northern California thinking like that was going to be the change, right? Here I am addicted to the heaviest of the heavy substances and I just get in the car and I leave, right. I leave Southern California where I've lived my entire life. I don't tell friends, I don'T tell family and I spent three years up there. And that's what I thought I needed. You know, I found a friend up there and I told him my story and I taught him what I had been going through and he wanted to help me. He said, no drugs or alcohol while you're up here, but you can smoke as much cannabis as you want. And I was like, okay, this is perfect, right? And little did I know that the disease was still running game inside of me. And even though when I was around this guy, I wasn't actively using drugs or alcohol, even though I was using a lot of cannabis. Anytime where I would come back home thinking that my life was more in order just because I had money now, I would pick up, I would drink and I would push everyone away for the winter time is when I would Come down and then I would go back up. All right, refocus up six, seven months, get paid and then right back to it. And I thought that's how my life Was going to be all right, just stay straight for spring, summer, fall. And then I'll be able to kind of go wild in the winter. Obviously I was not able to keep that up. The last year I was living up in Northern California, you know, work had picked up. I had learned some type of responsibility. He wanted me to kind OF run things. Okay, cool. Gave me free range, told me I could do whatever I wanted up there. And of course here I am, I want to start drinking. This has never been the biggest issue in my head, alcohol it's just been something that i do for fun and and uh that's not the issue it's it's other stuff right i can handle this and that was has been my my pattern with every substance right switching from one to another is going to be the solution and each time every substance has brought me to my knees you know in one one shape or another drinking alcohol took away the feelings of anxiety and depression and worry and made me not care but it progressed you know the disease progresses and it switched from whatever substance it was and then it hit me with hard alcohol and beer and from 27 to about 31 32 years old i mean i was drinking alcohol every single day. And in the type of work that I was doing, there wasn't a whole lot of, I don't know, rules. So I could kind of get away with drinking on the job. I could show up hungover. As long as I was making money, they were fine with it. COVID hits. Obviously, now I'm sitting at home all the time. I don'T really have stuff to do. I'M hitting the liquor store every day and I was feeling myself spiral. Alcohol was just so readily available for me being able to drive down to the liquor store or the CVS or whatever store it's, it's everywhere. And it's right in front of you and it's a big, nice neon sign and make it look so nice. And I would get what I needed. And I would hold myself in the room and I would isolate and I would drink. And that destroyed me. Alcohol was my best friend and my worst enemy at the same time, the way that it just dictated everything I did in life was, I mean, it was looking back on it. I mean it's insane, right? Insanity telling myself waking up in the morning i am not going to do this today right i am not going put myself in a position where i have to drink this bottle and i would do good maybe 20 30 minutes maybe i make it two hours but without even knowing i would grab my wallet and i'll walk out the door and i Would be at the liquor store again the last year of my drinking i was drinking about two-fifths of vodka a day all right and that was an everyday thing my liver was failing i did not know at the time but i was starting to you know vomit and blood and all that kind of stuff you know it was getting very bad um i was staring at the starting to experience very high levels of delirium tremens where i'm hallucinating even when i'm sober or excuse me even when i've under the influence i'm seeing things i'm hearing things i'm having paranoid delusions and i did not know what to do anymore besides drink through all this it's been my solution right if someone gets sick i'm drinking if it's a birthday i'm drinking. If I lose my job, I'm drinking. So good or bad, that has always just been the thing that you know, been the constant. I mean, I hit bottom. I had sold everything that I own in order to supply my habit, you know? Supply my addiction. And the last few days of me in that room, it was my mattress on the floor, my phone charger in the wall and everything else was gone because I sold it. And I bought, you know, the last bottles of vodka with a bag of loose change. And on that last day, because I'm a big procrastinator at the same time, you know I'm able to muster up enough courage to manipulate my father into letting me move back in with them. And now here I am at 32 years old, moving back in with my parents who I haven't lived with since I was 18. He takes a look at me and he's like, oh my gosh what is going on with you? And I'm very good at deceiving people. And I gave him false hope and I told him I need to get on Medi-Cal and I'm driven right now and I need to just have a couple of days to clean up. I'm going to get on some medication, things are going to be good. And I gave them that false hope and I tore that away from them. Okay. I spent about three, maybe four months at their house and I do what I do as an alcoholic. I steal, I cheat, and I get what I need being that alcohol. It came to a crash one night when, you know, I was in a blackout. I wanted to harm myself. I locked myself in the room for days and my parents you know had to you know kind of wonder if i was alive or dead in there banging on the door it got to a point where they broke down the door saw me in there and i said i needed help and thank god for that moment because that gift of desperation is what i'm able to find hope from what i am able to draw hope from today right that moment where i was just done and it rocketed me onto this path that I just had no idea where I would be going here I am going into a hospital a psych ward I begged for a recovery program and the resources were not there and they sent me to a place in Inglewood which was more of a mental health facility which was cool and which, you know, I'm grateful that we have that place, but I needed, I know what I needed. You know, I needed that the Alcoholics Anonymous, you now, I just needed to be around people who understood. And at that, you know mental health facility, I met a counselor who was working at a different treatment center and I told him my story and he told me his and he, you know, was getting his master's and going to be a social worker therapist. And I was just like, this doesn't add up, but his story is exactly like mine. What did he do? I want what he did. And he suggested me going to a program, you know, a very intensive alcoholics anonymous based 12 step program. And it was, you Know, the thing that changed my life. 100% I'd go into a program with the thought like, Hey, this time is going to be different, but I'm going to make it my way. You know, I'm gonna hang on to all my defects, like I mentioned earlier. And this place was just structured differently. Right? They didn't allow you to isolate, they didn't allowed you to be alone in your head. They pushed helping other people. And they pushed being accountable for your actions. And I wasn't ready for that. Right, the willingness that I had, as soon as it got uncomfortable, went out the door, I was like, I don't know if I can do this. And that was my path to AA and recovery. I mean, I spent three and a half years at this treatment center. It was long-term, but I thank God for that. You know, I do because I was able to fully dedicate from the moment that I woke up till the moment I went to bed, the program of action. I worked the 12 steps in a way where I never would have maybe worked though with a different sponsor. Maybe I would and it would have worked out well, but I needed to be in a no-contact, isolated program away from society for that time for me to focus on myself and really get down to the nitty-gritty. I needed TO rekindle a connection with God. I needed To learn the importance of helping other people. And putting my stuff to the side, even though I was not feeling good and I was in resentment, I needed to go and be of service. I needed to give back to this place that was saving my life. And I didn't even see it at the moment. And in that first year of recovery, man, it was, you know, I was unclear. I struggled. Like I said, the willingness would just come and go. And there would be glimpses like, hey, I'm getting better, but then you want me to do this? You want me TO get uncomfortable? And I would run on my own self-will for a long time. And I had sobriety that first year, but I was still very sick. And through this process, doing the steps in the order, I was able to find clarity. I did a one, two, three with my sponsor, and we got down on our knees. He said the third step prayer. And at that time, was I fully bought in to turning my will and my life over to the care of God as I understood him? Probably not. Looking back, I think I was doing it just to progress. But the steps provide clarity, right? The steps provide a connection with the higher power. And so just having some type of willingness at that time i was able to grow from that did a fourth step took me about three and a half months to write every single day for about an hour a very in-depth and searching and fearless moral inventory you know i didn't leave anything out on that i wrote about the stuff that i didn'T want to talk about with anyone and i just put pen to paper you know and i gave it an honest try this program has so much hope and when i looked at people who had more time than me and i saw the smiles on their face and i solved a change i wanted that right i didn't know how i was going to get it but i wanted it and if it was through just doing these actions in following direction and doing what they're telling you to do okay a little more willingness would come from that so i did my fourth step finished that and then did a fifth step with the sponsor Did the heavens open up and I'm floating out of the room? No, nothing like that happened. But I was able to get honest. And I was unable to realize that I wasn't alone with some of the things that I deemed as crazy or abnormal. abnormal and i felt closer i felt closer to myself i felt closer to my sponsor and more importantly i felt Closer to my higher power right i got a lot of stuff off my chest the weight had been lifted ever so slightly there was still some there you know but come out of the fifth step now i got a list of character defects my step six i'm looking at these things that are ugly like you're a people pleaser like all these character defects were written out on a piece of paper right in front of me you're baby a people please or manipulator you're a pushover i was just like oh wow i was like okay well i got some stuff to work on right and then we we did the seventh step prayer and here i am now completely at terms with who i am okay i have it i have all the facts of my life right in from me okay and now it is on me right it is on me to take the the next indicated action and it was on me now with the help of other people right but I have a better idea of what I need to do now so through this program comes step eight you know making a list I needed to make amends to my parents first and foremost right and when I went into these amends I had the thought like these are going to make me feel better right and I was completely off with that right the amends was not meant for me the men's was meant for the other person right to get some kind of justice and when i sat down with my dad my dad was the first person i made amends to and when i satdown with him and looked him in the eyes like of course man they were just so happy to see their son you know in a new light and oh my gosh there's color in his face whatever it was when i took responsibility for the harm that i caused and i made that commitment to change you know i i don't my dad was a very hard person growing up to see him tear up and cry in front of me it was just like it was unbelievable you know and i gave him a chance at the same time i was like is there anything that you want to get off your chest that you want to talk to me about that i can own up to that i kan take responsibility for right now and yes he had some stuff you know he brought up me drinking at my sister's wedding and me not being present and me just doing what we do as alcoholics. And in the past, me before recovery, I'd hear these things and I'd run. Today, I heard those things and I knew exactly what to do. I had a recovery-based response and I took responsibility he wants more. And the same thing happened with my mother, but my mom, she was not one to really bring up anything because again, my pattern is, Hey, if I get uncomfortable, I'm going to run. And they still were kind of, I would say skeptical, right? God given them false hope before, you know, they're happy. They were grateful for where I'm at and oh my gosh, he looks like he's in a better spot than he's ever been. But at the same time, there was still doubt And so she wasn't ready to really drop any of the things that, you know, really bothered her. And now coming up on four years, there's been opportunities where I sit down with my mom and she can bring up things, you Know, things that are still, you Know, like kind of troublesome or bothersome for her. And we're able to have an adult conversation together. And that is extremely freeing. You know, I made amends to both my sisters, my brother-in-law, my best friends, bosses, financial amends. my sponsor really pushed the amends process and not just stopping with the ones that I wanted to make of course I want to make amends to my you know immediate family and grandmother but at the same time no I'm not really looking forward to talking to my old boss that I used to steal money from you know but even with those uncomfortable ones and when the people told me that they didn't really want anything to do with me anymore but they appreciated the amends wow like the feeling of relief you know the ninth step promises i started to feel like there was change happening after making those amends right there was always so much fear like are they going to accept it and it did it wasn't even about that it was about being a man of character right and having that level of integrity to where I can own up to stuff. You know, after I made those amends, things really started to just, I'd say, change for me in a positive way. 10, 11 and 12, I wrote a 10 step or two years every single day as a requirement from the recovery program that I was in, hated doing it. But man, did that allow me to really take a look at myself? I'm talking about where I'm selfish, dishonest, fearful, holding secrets. Where do I amends? Am I kind and loving to the people around me? What resentments are coming up? Can I do better the next day? And what can I do? And then where did I see God through the stream of life? When I did that every single day in the moment, like I said, hated it, looked at it as a chore. Now I look back on it and I'm like, wow, that was an opportunity for me to get honest. And then I would have my sponsor check it the next day and he would hold me to a way higher standard. He would hold мне accountable and he Would help me with the things that I was struggling with. And so do I do that every day? No. Should I most likely? Yeah, I should probably get back onto it. My program today is not perfect by any means. I would like it to look so much better that I go to meetings every single day and have sponsees like that is just not it for me right now but there's always room to improve and as long as i am continually like growing spiritually right not becoming stagnant then i feel like i'm going to be all right okay when i do these things and talk and you know now today for work i'm able to work as a drug and alcohol counselor like that program allowed me to go back to school. I am three classes away from finishing my AA degree in human services addiction studies. I just finished my whole two-year program to get certified as a drug and alcohol counselor in California. You know, I moved out. I have my name on a lease. I was able to buy a car and fix my credit. And then like Like, that stuff is all really, really cool and I love it. But I don't find happiness from it. You know, I always thought the materialistic stuff was going to be what kept me sober. You know? I wish it would. But it's just not the facts today. Right? Where I find the most clarity today is by talking with someone one-on-one. Right? Either someone, you know, who has more time than me or has less time than me. And I'm able to share just like I am right now. Right? And there's something special, like when one alcoholic is talking to another, the magic happens right there, right? The cement that binds us together is our disease. And when we're able to just connect and feel like, hey, this guy gets it, wow. Like, it is amazing. And today I'm able to work with alcoholics pretty much every single day, you know, and that's not my program. But I'm very grateful for it, man, to have the opportunity to be around and engulfed in Alcoholics Anonymous pretty much every single day of my life. And like I said, I couldn't even have imagined where my life would be today without this program. this program i thought it was going to just like teach me how to be sober but it also taught me how to have character and how to be an adult and you know i'm so grateful for the path that i am on today it's not promised man it's not a guarantee but as long as i'm waking up in the morning and i'm reminding myself hey i'm an alcoholic and i need help I can't trust my brain right now that thing's out to get me that's the disease right there it is still prevalent so I call my sponsor I talk to my guys I run my thinking and I just try and be a better person than I used to be and with God helping other people in the 12 steps I could not be more grateful for the person that I've become and for the relationships that have been put in front of me because I love my friends And I just love, you know, life today. Before the program, I couldn't smile. I was sad. I was depressed. I was on psych meds. I was just a hot mess. And now today I am, you know, I'm a very positive person. I feel like I'm able to bring hope to other people and I have purpose, right? My purpose today is to help other people want to be of service to Alcoholics Anonymous and more importantly, God. And really with that, i would say that's everything thank you tommy yeah you're welcome that was good and i i i'm sure you are aware that you're very well spoken are you an artist or a writer no okay well you just got better at public speaking by being a counselor yeah you you have some poetic language uh that i don't know maybe when you listen back to it you will hear what i hear but um the disease was still running game in my head um that's not really the best example i'm looking at my notes i'm like come on there were some really good oh oh i found it i found it okay so um evil and corroding thread you were talking about this i think fear that was just kind of running through you that's from the literature that's chapter five right there that's not you the evil and corroding no that is not me oh that's funny okay well bill w strikes again with his artistic writing no i want to take credit for it but i can't oh that'S great Well, it's still very good delivery. Anyways. Okay. Let's get back to your story. So thank you so much for your share. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. Enjoyed your public speaking talent. It was enjoyable. And you rolled in the steps in such an organic way. It wasn't forced. It was just very natural as you walked through what you experienced. you talk about the magic that happens when one alcoholic talks to another when i was little i thought um if you were catholic too because i grew up catholic if you were Catholic too that meant we were family like oh we're family like we come from the same genetic line is what i thought in my head and i feel that way about alcoholics like we all came from the same planet and when there's just us talking the magic is like oh from my hometown my home planet yes absolutely i relate to that so much every time someone new comes in to work like a sick alcoholic i am able to just break the ice right i can talk about one of my crazy stories that would people would say like dude you're you need to go to jail man like you need be locked up for what you just said. And this person is laughing. He is in tears, right? He gets it. And I love that. Like, this is our people. It's a fellowship, man. And it is super cool to be a part of. Yeah. You talked about having morals and values early on growing up. I imagine that made your addiction even more difficult where somebody who doesn't even know what morals and values are and how they relate to our life, can drink without really having the dissidence that is probably caused by having a Catholic upbringing and knowing morals and virtues and wanting to live by those, and then not. So, can you talk about how you went through the process of rekindling your relationship with god or a power greater than yourself having gone been close maybe and then far and and what yeah absolutely um when i came into recovery early on i was fully closed off god isn't real that stuff is mumbo jumbo like but like i would say that there was just something so deep inside of me that would see it work for other people. Like my mother is extremely religious and, you know, through this process, I feel like she has grown so much closer to God because of all the turmoil that I have put her through, right? I was told to use the program as my higher power when I was new. You know, I can't deny what was going on. The stories that I hear from other people do not add up with the people that I'm seeing in front of me. Like I was pretty set, like I know how to pray. I've been doing this my whole life and now here I am asking for help, right? And getting told directions that I didn't even understand and starting extremely simple, right. I was told early on when you wake up in the morning, you hit your knees and you ask God to keep you sober today or ask whatever. Don't even have to say God. And I was like, okay, I can do that. And at the end of the night, you make it through the day sober you hit your knees again and you think you're higher power like okay i can do that and little by little being immersed in the program and seeking out guidance you know because i was told very well that my way isn't working anymore and i need to ask people who know what they're doing or have a better understanding i would say and it just grew it just drew right We would say the serenity prayer and then, okay, now I'm going to incorporate 86 to 88, you know. And I would read on awakening in the morning and I would, you Know, try and implement, okay. Pause when agitated or doubtful. Okay, I can do that, you Now they want me, let's do the third step prayer. Okay, seven step prayer in the Morning or 11th step prayer and little by little like these prayers that I had a big sheet to and I would read, I started memorizing. Okay. And now they're telling me, yes, you should make it more personalized. Okay, well, here I am praying for all the things that I want, right? God help me with this, help me with this. And it was very selfish, right. I just wanted everything on my time. And, you know, I was shown ways to pray for other people, right, pray for them to experience the good things that I want to experience and pray for my family and for the people that I don't like or, you know, that I may have judgmental of. Right. And and wish for them to be better people. And I don' t know, like, I don''t find myself extremely religious today, but at the same time, I'm pretty spiritual. I think it's ingrained. And there was a point in time, maybe two-ish years into recovery where I was like, oh, wow. Like, I noticed myself praying when I walked into a room of people that I didn't know. God, help me with this right now. Allow me to be a vessel. Help me to, you know, provide some kind of comfort to the people around me, right? Don't let me just sit in my head the whole time. Allow me too to bear the fruits of the goodness that you're giving me, and And yeah, it's just something that I don't know. It's ingrained, but I don'T do it perfectly. There'll be a day when I'm like, oh, wow, I'm running late and I run out the door and I didn't pray. And is it a necessarily bad day? Not every time. But I just don't want to make anything like that a habit anymore. If I realize, okay, it'S been two days where I haven't gotten on my knees or done my morning routine rather daily lotion like okay I'm treading dangerous territory even though you know things could be going perfectly I am not in a position where I want to risk anything anymore and if this is what's gotten me to this point then I need to at least put the effort in and like I said I don't do it perfectly and there's some days are better than others and I wish it looked a little better but you know I just have to remind myself and and be able to tell people like hey this is what going on with me and allow them to give me direction and tell me hey i don't think that's the best idea right and and so i just try and do better every day i i appreciate your description there of um i don'T KNOW WHEN YOU WALK IN THE DOOR JUST KIND OF MAKING THAT CONNECTION IT SOUNDS LIKE THROUGHOUT THE DAY WITH YOUR HIGHER POWER WHERE YOU'RE CHECKING I try. I was told, hey, you go into breakfast, you say a prayer, lunch, prayer, dinner, prayer. When you go into group, say a prior, into a meeting, it's just what I was taught. And I didn't see it in the moment. I'm like, why am I doing this? I'm just shooting words up. And now my connection with higher power, it is not this die though holier than thou kind of terminology. It is me saying, hey man i need your help right now can you guide me through this i don't know it's just more of a personal relationship than something that i'm just kind of shooting up there and hoping something grabs them i know that something's there i can't deny it yeah i liked when you explained that you you had said that you couldn't deny what you saw right in front of you and that's such a good um lever to pull when newcomers come in it's just like well just look around you and you cannot deny that these when we share our stories every story that i record on here is such a miracle that people get worried about it being good i'm like dude every story is a miracle every story is good like every miracle is yeah i agree i agree with that so do your does your um diagnosis of ocd and adhd impact your program in any way do you manage it differently do you have any tips for for people that are perhaps uh struggling with that and are in program or trying yeah okay um i came into the program on like medication for that kind of stuff and i don't know if this is for everyone but the people that i was surrounded with told me that you have alcoholism and i was like okay i didn't see it in the moment you know i was like no i have this this and this actually right and i wanted to combat that and they're like okay you know and i dont know it just came with more work more clarity that i realized like, Hey, maybe I don't need all this. Right. And I'm no doctor or anything like that. But today I don'T take any type of like medications anymore. AndI'M grateful for that.But at the same time, man, some people have it a lot, maybe worse or, or maybe it is more prevalent.And like, if you need to take whatever you take, cool.Right.But I was just more open-minded to the point like,Hey,I'M just a sick alcoholic who is suffering from,you know, alcoholism. and that's what's making me kind of crazy and once that like spiritual malady was healed inside of me then all the like anxiety fear worry that i experienced my entire life has dissipated and it comes up believe me i was anxious to do this right now and it was not that bad right everything my mind wants to say like hey this is going to be really uncomfortable. It never plays out that way. And so I think that when I was able to heal spiritually, I was unable to heal mentally and physically. And now I'm just a different person. So I don't follow your advisor's advice. If they're telling you, hey, you should probably go this way, okay, try it out. And then if it's not working, then you can always go back to it. I don't think there's like a, I don'T know, like a across-the-board fix for anyone who might deal with mental health and the disease at the same time. Yeah, definitely. We all come with our own makeup that presents itself so differently combined with what we experience and all of the things. But I do appreciate you answering that question. Yeah, of course. When I think about my anxiety, especially as a kid, it was prevalent. And do you remember Spiegel in Lord of the Rings? Yeah, of course. He has his other person he talks to, like Spiezel talks we, and he has like a conversation with himself that is another. That's what my disease is. I actually named it. Her name is Victoria. And I tell her to shut the fuck up all the time. That's right. So I have like created this personality that I've named it. So when it starts beating up Tara, it's not. It's like that mean girl Victoria that just needs to shut up. No, I get that. I have the same thing going on. But the program and the principles and staying connected And also, like, the word prayer, you're telling me to pray throughout the day. That I hear, to me, the connotative or the definition, the denotative definition of prayer is to ask for something. And that's not what my sponsor means when she says pray throughoutthe day. It means I should talk to my higher power more than I'm talking to Tara throughout the way. it's so simple to walk in a room and i do it right before i ask questions every time i record or most times when i'm connected i just say a little prayer please help me ask the questions that you would like me to ask and and stay connected prayer does not have to equal ask for something right that connection is what we mean i feel like i just got on a little soapbox so i'm just going to step down and get back to my questions okay okay it's morning for everybody it's sunday morning and i'm caffeinated so we'll forgive my soapbox behavior maybe i'll cut it it's all good final recording okay um you talked about the willingness to that would come and go in your first year you were in an intense program you you said it was structured differently and explain that a bit. You've had like an insane fourth step writing process. I think you said an hour a day for over three months, which sounds insanely long. So what do you want to share about that time and the willingness that would come and go? Whatever you want to elaborate for the newcomer that perhaps is in that first year totally struggling and not knowing if any relief is ever going to come yeah absolutely in that time when i was writing my fourth step i would have just glimpses of clarity right i would get out of the writing room and i'd be really unclear because i would be in self the whole time for that whole hour and as soon as you know i got out it's pushed on you hey you got to get in solution what is solution turning my resolutely turning my thoughts to another alcoholic and seeing where i can be of service, right? Seeing where I can be of help. I didn't want to do that. It's comfortable for me to stay in my head. It is comfortable for мне to be in self-pity, for me to get all sad about where I'm at in life. And when I sit in that for too long, it consumes me like I would think it would for any other alcoholic. And I didn'T learn this until I was a little further along in the program but just because i'm like working and have good things going on that doesn't mean that it's just everything is perfect right the world doesn't care that i have character or that you know that i dedicated all this time to myself like it doesn't matter i heard this in a meeting a couple weeks ago when i was around family right i hadn't been around family and it's christmas time and they're and i wanted to kind of well i didn't want to i was you know i was character assassinating the people that i love like oh wow look at this person you know he's being selfish right now oh my gosh this guy's got a big ego and like who am i to do anything like that right just because i have almost four years of sobriety does not make me any better than the people around me and the guy at the meeting said just because I'm getting sober just because you're getting sober does not mean that everyone else has to and that everyone else has a good person. And I, I heard that and I was just like, Oh wow, ain't that the truth. Okay. So when I was early in recovery, I really had to tap into the hope that was going on and just be like, Hey, it doesn't have to be like this forever. And I have to have some kind of faith, spiritual principles two and three hope and faith. And if I am seeing that there is hope in this and I have faith that it's going to work for me. I'm getting little glimpses of it and I'm seeing these other people recover. You're in the middle of it, right? You just got to kind of push through. You go to a meeting, you feel better. Sometimes, sometimes you're more unclear. You know, you're like, I don't know, go and talk to your sponsor and he helps you and you're upset. Okay, cool. But look at the good things going on in your life, right. Have some gratitude, right, youre not kicking dope, You're not in detox, you know, you're striving to be a better person. You're developing connection with God, right? It's always got to come back to gratitude for me. Like the good things will outweigh the bad things today, especially when I have that perspective, but the disease likes to latch onto the negativity, right. It likes, especially early in recovery, like it's going to latch on to all the good times. it's gonna latch on to the parties and the fun that you had and you know the experiences and like it could never get any better than that you know when i was under the influence and it's like it doesn't want you to think about all the harm that you caused your family or the you know the depression that you were in or the really dark spot of you being homeless on the corner not having anyone to call right and so as long as i'm like keeping those memories fresh in my brain like that's going to be the motivation like i talked about earlier right our story is just so powerful and then when we're able to voice it and come to terms like hey that was who i was but it's not who i am today thank you god for that and that's pretty powerful you know so it's like dude if you're really looking at your situation and it's like that'S PRETTY AWESOME MAN LIKE YOU'RE DOING A FOUR STEP YOU'RE doing an inventory on yourself like things are looking up for you right you're on the path to recovery out like way way the pros and cons man like the pros are always going to be more i'd say thank you tell me that was good i like just the simplicity of it just very well done tap into hope and glimpses and push through those are all very good simple tips i feel like the people that i come into contact with are able to understand it when i can just break it down and keep it just simple it's just so much easier yeah and the disease you talked a bit about this too the disease being like just a trickster i wrote down um you said that's who i was and i was like i can tell my victoria she doesn't live here anymore like that person you're trying to instigate should not hear oh that's good yeah okay final two questions we are going i'm gonna give you a minute to think about it but is there anything that you left out of your story or that you're thinking of now that you would like to share no i think whatever came out needed to come out i don't want to overthink it i think that was pretty an accurate depiction of what's going on with mr tommy right here all right final question for the listener who is suffering with or without sobriety and they're listening what message would you like to leave them with you don't have to feel how you feel right now anymore there is relief It might not look how you want it to look in the moment, but if you want change and you want help, it's available to you. It starts with picking up the 500-pound phone and calling a helpline, a treatment center, your sponsor, or just someone who can listen to you, and there's resources out there. I think there's more resources now than there ever has been. so if you're struggling you're not alone we get it we've all been there but there has to be some sort of willingness if you've done with how you feel today okay cool there's got to be some kind of willingness to change and having an open mind to do something that might be uncomfortable right and when you do those two things clarity relief will be experienced For more information, read the first 164 pages of The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous or visit KeepComingBack.net.