Getting Over the Higher Power Problem in the Chapter to the Agnostic – Russell S.

Hi, my name is Russell. I'm an alcoholic member of the Carl Gables Group. It's good to be back here again after being gone for a couple of weeks. I missed the group and I was looking forward to coming back. I was out in California and I started out in Laguna Beach. Every year I usually go with a group of people. We took a group people out to California, Laguna beach, and there's a conference we go out to out there. It's like a 12-step deal, spiritual thing. And held at a church out there. Some of you may have heard of it, Saddleback Church. It's that Rick Warren's church that, you know, what is it? That 40 – you know the – what's that book? What's that books he wrote? Purpose Driven Life, right. So and that's pretty nice out there, Laguna Beach is absolutely beautiful. I don't know how many people have been out there it's – can you imagine like the air temperature between like 70 and 80 degrees and no humidity. You don't need air conditioning out there. And we hang out also at the Canyon Club out there, which is like a wonderful place. I've been going out there for six years, so I know a lot of the people there. So it's almost like seeing old friends and coming in there and going to a lot OF meetings. And then I went up to L.A. and went to a couple of people there and went through a few meetings and then got to go to Pacific Coast Highway to Half Moon Bay, which is about 30 minutes south of San Francisco and it's a beautiful place, went to a bunch of meetings there and it was just meetings all up and down the coast and I had a great time a lot of really good people good AA people but I'll tell you the truth, it is good to be back I was a little bit homesick but it's good to Be Back Here but of course when you got AA and you got people that sort of like on the same wavelength and suffering from the same deals we suffer from, you can basically pick up stakes and live anywhere I got to share this with you. I promised I'd share this with you, I got to share it. The whole trip was worth stealing one line. Unfortunately, I have to admit I'm stealing this line, but I just loved it because I'm not sure it's been used in South Florida yet. So I may be the first one bringing this. I feel like the guy, I feel like when I was drinking 25 years ago in order to get Coors beer it was like cocaine you know you had to know like back then they called them stewardesses i don't know what they call them now but yeah you had a no stewardess who would smuggle you accords beer you know i mean you couldn't bring it past the rockies or something but uh but so i feel like i'm smuggling this line in but i heard it at a meeting and i said i got to grab that sucker and some guy was telling about what his definition of a and maybe there's somebody in here who's heard this but i'd never heard it before he says definition of a bottom was. There's a new definition of a bottom that I stole from somebody in California but from now on it's mine. And he says, you know when you reach a bottom is when the consequences of your actions come at you faster than your ability to lower your standards. So I thought that was pretty much it. So it It is good to be here, and I'm going to talk a little bit about the 11th step today. Read a few things out of the book. Repeat myself. You know, a lot of this stuff is repetitious, but that's okay. I need to have stuff repeated to me over and over again. I just spoke to a friend of mine. You know? We talk about these statistics. You know. The statistics that have been floated around from various studies. That one half of 1% of the people that come today stay sober for more than 20 years. it's like one in 200 and i i got a call from a buddy of mine who shall remain nameless and out of the blue hadn't spoken to him about five or six years and uh because i'm starting his steps at down at brickle and um he was there and something happened i couldn't make it so i'm going the next week but uh he was telling me how he missed me he was looking forward to seeing me so i asked him where he'd been i hadn't seen him and he had 18 years and he'd gone out 18 years then i spoke to somebody else here tonight they told me they they ran into somebody at 24 years just picked up a white chip so you know it's pretty serious deal so i mean i guess repetitious isn't such a bad thing huh because apparently uh somehow we can forget and i'm still not sure how that deal works you know but uh to me it's a gift every day every moment of sobriety is a gift so i want to talk a little bit about the 11th step and uh i decided i said you know when in doubt tell the truth so i figured what i'd do is i just sort of share a little bit about the truth uh and that is talk a little bit about i want to read a few things from the book and then i'm going to talk about my personal experiences with the 11th step you know one of the things i used to do when i came into alcoholics anonymous uh you know trying to get this thing wanting to have this thing whatever this thing is i'm not even sure what this thing is but i wanted to have it whatever it was you know i you know the way i saw these you know the vision of myself in AA and the vision of who I could be and what I could be was always seen through the eyes of older members of Alcoholics Anonymous gee I don't know what I what I would have done in AA if everybody was crazy you know what i mean if everybody acted like they had three or four months I mean there ain't nothing wrong with having three or four months or being crazy or being nuts I mean sometimes you learn about yourself by seeing crazy you I've been crazy, and anybody who – I don't look down on anybody. The craziest guy in the room, I could say there but for the grace of God. And sometimes some guy says or some guy or gal says or does something crazy, and you realize it's crazy, and sometimes that's the first signs of sanity when you realize what craziness is. And very often I'd hear somebody talk about something he did, and I said it was crazy, and then all of a sudden you remember, hey, man, I did the same thing. And that's how you learn about yourself. But I'll tell you, And, you know, a great deal of my vision as to where I could be and who I could be was done through watching older members of Alcoholics Anonymous. You know, guys like Joe Snyder, people you know. Or like Al Kennedy that I talk about. You know? Or Eddie Edwards. Or, you Know, the various guys that had 20 or 30 years when I came in. You know you can read this stuff in a book. But as much as I love the big book and I'm a devotee of the big book and the 12 and 12, I really don't believe you could really get this thing. As a matter of fact, I think I even did a meeting on this. I'm quite sure that you really can't stay sober all by yourself. I know we got loners and all that sort of stuff, but I'll tell you what. Without any question in my mind, not only does this thing have to do with a relationship with God, totally a relationship with God and building upon that relationship, but also having a relationship with other people and building upon relationships of other people. I've just never failed. It just seems to me that whenever I've heard of anybody that goes out there drinking or drugging or going crazy, they're always disconnected from other people. They're always out there by themselves. They're all alone. They may say they have a sponsor but they haven't spoken to them or they really don't have a relationship. I've rarely seen people that were locked in. You know, because the truth of the matter is, and I was talking about this the other night, if this is really a deal, I suppose when you first come in, when I first came in, I sort of did a lot of stuff by rote, like 1-2-3-4, 1-1-2, 1-3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4. that kind of if this was a deal where you just had to learn how to do the same thing over and over and over again you know almost like you know i was never good at diets i was never good a diet you know like for a week for a month i'm not good at i don't know how i'd do a diet for like 20 years i was never good at doing the same thing perfectly forever you know i was there and you know this is the kind of thing like if this was the kind of deal whereas you know know i hear people listen i don't i know there may be somebody in here who's locked into this and you think i'm criticized and i'm just telling you just what my opinion is i was never good at good orderly direction i don'T DO GOOD ORDERLY DIRECTION i do bad orderly Direction you know i'm i'm excellent at doing bad order i can'T DO BAD GOOD ORDERLY DIRECTiON on a bet maybe once in a while i can do something right you know to do good or the direction of the rest of my life I mean, I'm not really not good at that deal. If this has to do with being good for 25 years, I ain't going to make this deal. If this ha s to do with doing things right for 25 year, I'm never going to m ake this deal, you know? I just... This has to d o... Staying sober has to deal with more than just the mechanics. Now, I' m not putting it down. We say all the time, don't drink and go to meetings because we say that because we have no idea what else to say. Really, you kno? But I've seen guys that don't drank and go to meetings do the steps. I've seen people who do the steps who drink. You know, I know that's not the deal. I know there's something – I know whenever somebody goes out there after 5, 6, 7, 10 years, it even says in the book someplace, he says sometimes they give an excuse as to why they do it, but the truth is they have no idea why they drink as much as we do. We're clueless. I know when everybody with 10 or 15 years or 20 years goes out, I don't know how much you say, well, it's because they didn't go to meetings, because they didn't do this. To most of us who really know what's going on, it's a frickin' mystery. You shake your head and you said, who knows? That's what makes it so scary, because it makes no sense. You can't even say something goofy like I used to say, well, he obviously didn't take the first step, you know what I mean? How could somebody, come on, a guy who stays sober 18 years, didn't took the first step? I mean, you think it's as easy as that? You just took the fist step and you stay sober? I mean there's something else going on and the thing that that leads to long-term long- term quality sobriety is bigger than the steps it's just bigger than book it was and it's something that cannot be explained uh in words you see that's the problem the problem is is all i got is words and I can't explain it to you in words. You know, it's like somebody in here was kind enough to actually FedEx me a book to California for me to read. They wanted me to be able to read The Spirituality of Imperfection by Ernie Kurtz who did not God and there was a line in there and I just loved it. It was perfect where somebody went up to the master I want to share with him. He went upto the master and he said that he wanted to know about what the secret was and he says well the secret can't be explained in words he says what do you mean the secret can't be explained in words he says well he says the true secret the thing that's the most important thing can never be explained in words he says what do I mean he says do you know what a rose smells like he says sure explain it to me the things that are the most important things in your life the things that move you and shake you and cause you to ultimately do everything you do in life, the urges, the lusts, the feelings, the wants, the love, the aromas, the smells, the likes, the tastes, and everything. You can't explain it in words. The most important things in your life, there's a lot of actions we do and everything, but the bottom line is the real important stuff can't be explained in words There's something else moving and shaking there. You either get it in your heart, it's like the language of the heart It's something you feel inside, but it's something I can't explain to you. You know, all we have in here is really our stories. All I can tell is sort of like tell you a story and how you accept the story. Some people hear the story and something happens. Some people here the story, and nothing happens, you know? And I can even explain the story to you, you. You know what it's like explaining a joke. You ever tell a joke, and a bunch of people laugh, you know, and you know, it's funny, there's a bunch of people laughing, then one guy says, I don't get it. you ever do something stupid like try to explain it to them when you're trying to explain a joke to somebody do they ever say do you ever see them start laughing they don't do they they either get it or they don t that's the deal so you hang around here and you hear the stories and you read the books and you do the things and you either get or you don t and once you get it you try to give it away but you can never really explain it. You can never explain what's going on inside and how it's happening and I know that one of the reasons I'm in here for the amount of time I'm in here and here's another thing I can't explain. I don't have a desire to drink. I don't have a desired to do drugs. I haven't had a desire to drink or do drugs or do a lot of things for a while for a long time. It's not a problem I have and yet I am absolutely convinced there is no question in my mind that I could be drunk in an hour and I can't even explain that to you now there's some people that don't know what I'm talking about and there's some people in here saying I know exactly what you're talking about and all I can do is tell you all Ican do is tell you that you know and you're either going to get it or one day you'll get it I can understand I can explain to you what it's like not to have the urge or the want to or the obsession about drinking but somehow deeply accept the fact that i'm powerless over the drink i can't explain that but i know it's part of the first step and somehow you either get it or you don't i know when i first came today i had no clue as to what they were talking about when they said powerless over alcohol powerless over your life powerless over things and now i understand what they're talking about i feel i understand but i don't know how to communicate it except to tell you that deal it's just a feeling it's just it's it's an attitude you know that I that I have and and you know so I also know that what's real important about a somehow is to talked about personal experiences and I do want to talk about the 11 step and there's two aspects of the 11th step that I want to talk about I hope I'm able to get through them one aspect has to be with inspirational thinking and one inspirational thinking which they talk about the 11th step which is which is important which is the phenomena that's real they talked about in the big book and and it's an important thing for like quote intellectuals like me to understand the difference between intellectual thinking inspirational thinking which is really what goes on in here as you grow up and hopefully become an elder statesman and I also want to talk about spiritual growth which is like real important in this deal in my opinion there's a intellect you know what's that line you know I was talking about last night at the West Brad was kind enough to invite me to speak to the west side men's group last night which was up here that was an interesting experience walking the room with 70 guys and I'm relaxed now I got it all off my chest you know how to explain this about a men's meeting but there's like no there's no limits in one of those deals I think I ranted or raved and got all that out of my system last night and it's a little bit of a different deal but it was a very nice group it was good to be with those guys but uh one of the things i mentioned the men's group is one of old ideas i have one ofthe old ideasi have is like the roland hazard idea that now knowing the inner workings of my mind that drinking is absolutely impossible i'll never drink or i'llnever do that again or i'llnever because now that i know how i think and it says nevertheless he was drunk in just a few weeks and that that that's the old idea i have that somehow, some way, I'm smart enough where I'm going to beat this thing. I'm never going to get screwed up again with alcohol. I'm not going to be able to do it again. I'm ever going to, I'll never get screwed up with the same relationship. I'm gonna get straight up with the same deal and my best think on my best day, you know, got me into the toilet bowl I wound up in when I came in here and believe me, it's not all about booze. I mean, booze was ultimately what brought me in here, but the truth of matter is I screwed up my life in so many different ways. Even after coming to Alcoholics Anonymous. I mean, my best thing and my best day has me doing the craziest weird things, you know. When I'm in charge and you want to do something, whenever I'm doing it, it always seems like a good idea to me, you now. It always seems, man, it seemed like a great idea at the time, you kno. I am my worst, you want make sure whoever was running your life before you came today never gets in charge of that sucker again, you know. And if you're an alcoholic like I was an alcoholic, there was only one person running your live, there's nobody else to blame. As a matter of fact, if you tell me it's somebody else's fault that just proves more to me how crazy you are. Because I know if you're an alcoholic or you're a willful person, there wasn't anybody telling you what to do. And if you did something because somebody suggested it's because you wanted to do it because you're just able to say, well, go jump in the lake. You know, so just the rationalization is it wasn't my fault. It's just as crazy. And so one of the things I had to do was give up control, which is a tough thing for an alcoholic. But, you know, like I tell the story about the guy that – the doctor. and I don't know if I've told this group, I probably have the doctor in Palm Beach I think it was who recently got arrested for, it wasn't, I think he was a doctor he had been this pharmacist for selling watered down chemotherapy drugs and what he was doing was watering down the drugs that they give for chemotherapy you know so people wouldn't get the proper dosage. I guess he would make more money and what happened was a whole bunch of people died and they arrested him and I don't knows what happened with that case but the bottom line is I don't want to give out watered-down chemo therapy. I don' t want to get the watered down stuff. There is a tendency because one of the diseases I have, I had a lot of problems. After I got rid of the alcohol, then I got to look ... When you're drunk all the time or you're screwing up all the times because of booze, once you get rid of boozes, then you get to look at all the other crap that's going on like when I was 40 years old. You know what I found out nine years sober? That if you spend more money than you make, you go into something called debt. See, you're laughing. You don't know what it's like. I didn't know that. Did you know that? That's what I found out when I was nine years sober. You know what I found out? When I was 20 years sober, I stopped doing it. I stopped doing it, you know? I mean, I'm, you buy things you don't need with money you don' have to impress people you don even like, you know, that kind of deal. You ever try to figure out, you know what? I found that at 10 years sober that people don't need credit cards. Did you know that? You probably didn't know that. I didn't know that! You know how I found out about that? They took away my credit cards! I found that you don't need credit card. You know why? Here's the deal. You know why people use credit cards? To live a dishonest life. I'm not saying everybody does that, that's what I used. I used to live a dishonest right because here's the deal. If you can afford something to buy, you'll reach into your pocket and and you'll take the cash out, or you'll write a check. So if you're not doing that, if you'RE using a credit card, I mean, you might need it for a rental car or something, but if youRE using a crediCard to buy something, you'RE usING it to buy sOMething because it'S something you can'T afford. And so what you'VE decided to do is live a lifestyle that you don'T deserve to make believe that you'RE richer than you ARE. So by using your credit card and charging up your credit cards, you're in the process of living a dishonest life not living you see I didn't know that did you know that shit I didn'T know that crap you see there's a lot of ways of being dishonest and it also leads to consequences later on right you know waking up in the middle you know I don't even want to get into the people I've defended for stealing money to pay off minimum charges on credit cards charged with third degree felony stealing money what were you doing I was paying off the minimum charge my credit card because I was scared they were going to take it away from me leads to a lot of problems lead a lot of anxiety you know a lot thumb-sucking and crying and stuff like that and Alcoholics Anonymous how many people around here worry about money you know how many around here while you live you I mean there's so many things that go on in Alcoholics anonymous and go go on with these things that more than just not drinking and and you know the crazy thing it's all solved by the same deal the solution that they talk about in the big book and the promises and everything, it all is solved by the same solution, that relationship with God. And in any event, I don't want to be like that doctor who's scared to, that doctor who's giving out the watered down medicine because people are dying in here. In order not to give the water out medicine, I have to be honest about my life to the extent that I can be honest. I mean, I guess we all hold back some stuff and everything so I got to talk a little bit about myself and some stuff You know, the stuff they mention in the big book is kind of crazy. The stuff that's mentioned in the Big Book that's never talked about at meetings. Did you know that? There's stuff in the Book that's ever talked about in meetings. And it's important stuff, you know? I mean, I don't know who it was who said, well, this thing's important in the book, but that thing isn't important in The Big Book. There's some real important stuff in The Book. And you know why it's not talked about meetings? Because it makes people uncomfortable. Oh, that's a character. God forbid we make anybody uncomfortable in an AA meeting. You know? You wouldn't want that to happen. I don' t know about you. The only way I ever got sober is because I got real uncomfortable. I never did real well when I'm comfortable. You know, the problem with alcoholics and people now is they get too well too fast, you know? Right? I said this last night. They come in unemployable, you Know, six months later, they're underpaid. You know? Whenever I'm Comfortable. Hey, listen. Whenever I'M comfortable, watch out. You know what I mean? Comfortability. I don't do well with comfortability. I grow when I'M uncomfortable. I grow When I hear things I don'T want to hear. When I get uncomfortable. When I'M squirming. or I'm scared. That's when I start growing and changing and it's all about becoming open-minded and growing. Open-minded is only the dying can get. Isn't that what they say in the beginning? I've got to be dying. What are they talking about today? We learn the value of suffering. What do they say on the 12 and 12? Only by repeated humiliations the final crushing of our self-sufficiency do we learn anything in here? Doesn't sound to me like feeling good leads to anything. It sounds to me Like, we've got to go through a lot of stuff. And so one of the things that happened to me, and I learned five years later, is that I have a tendency to want people to like me. You know? I'm probably alone with that in here. You know what I mean? I want to be accepted. I want it. I don't want to get rejected. I don' t want to reject it. You know, I know that if I talk a lot about God and religion and church and stuff like that, people won't like me, you know? If I talk about – imagine that, a program of Alcoholics Anonymous where they mention God all over the place and it's all about a relation with God. In the big book itself, what do they say in chapter of the agnostics? It says as soon as we start talking about God, you know what it says? We all, all the hackles on our neck stand up. It says in the big book, as soon As You Start Talking About God, there's the rub because everybody hates God. Everybody knows they hate God. You know, everybody don't want to hear about God. Don't talk about God. He talks too much about God if there's one. Here we have a program of recovery where it's all about God and relationship with God and nobody wants to hear it. You know? You're going to be criticized. God forbid we'll be criticized, you now what I mean? You know what it says in the big book? It says you've got to get over it. Do you realize that if these guys published a book that mentioned God 600 times and talked about all these phrases that I read out of the book, do you realize that if they were as scared as we are in here to talk about God, do you realise that we'd all be drunk? Do you realise that if the men who wrote the book Alcoholics Anonymous felt the same way about God as most people talk about, I'm not saying most people because I know there's a lot of people that love that deal and aren't worried about it and feel a certain way but there's lots of people that sort of shout people down. They make them feel guilty. They make him feel like they're stupid to talk about that or they shouldn't talk about this. Do you realize that the founders that wrote this book felt the same way as the people that are sort of not God around here? Do you realise we'd all be drunk if they wouldn't have written this thing? Everybody would be dead there'd be no recovery and so we write this thing we sort of play the God thing down which may be in a sense sort of like not a bad thing in a sentence it's sort of an interesting friction because maybe a new guy coming in doesn't need to hear that so maybe it's okay early on to say to a guy don't worry about that stuff you'll get it later because I didn't understand that stuff at first or anything like that I had to grow into it but for sure somewhere along the way it's got to be acknowledged through the growth of a spiritual experience, you've got to, as they say, chapter of the Gnostic, you've gotta at some point in time get over it. It says you've Gotta Get Over It. You've gotta ditch that feeling. You've Gotta get over that God problem. You know, that paranoia you have about God and religion and all that stuff. It says it in the book in many, many, many places. So, you know, there's a natural inclination to not want to talk about your personal experiences with God in here. And one of the things I did when I first came into alcohol, because you don't want to be criticized. You want to be liked. You don't want people to say, well, he talks too much about you and all that stuff. So it's something you have to get over. Part of that thing about whether people like you or don't like you or how they feel about you, if you want to come up here and be authentic, it's Something That You Get Over, hopefully. I'm not sure you get over it 100%. And so that's what I want to sort of talk about, some of the personal experiences I had, and I wantto read a little bit about the book, and then I'll just sort of rush through this real fast And they'll tell you where I'm coming from and what's been happening to me later on in my sobriety. I'm talking about from year 16 on, you know, 16 on to 25. And one of the reasons I like to talk about that is I sponsor a bunch of guys that have years between the years 16 and 25. And I know guys that Have 10, 11, 12, 13 years that get to a certain point where a lot of things – they've dealt with a lot Of stuff. They've dealt With a lot OF stuff. And they're not doing so well, you Know? And there is a time in Alcoholics Anonymous, I know a lot of you guys know this, where you don't do well. You're not always flying with the eagles. I've gone through some rough stuff. It's okay to go through rough stuff, that's how we learn. It's Okay to Suffer. It's OK to get the crap knocked out of you and be down. You go through stuff, and we've all gone through stuff. And I want the guy to know who's here tonight, because I know one of the problems I had as an alcoholic is, you know, if you go through stuff, you think there's something wrong. And there is something to that. You know what I mean? You know, if you're going through stuff maybe there's nothing wrong maybe you have to re-examine but sometimes you just have to get into the oven. You got to go through the desert time. Sometimes you just got to be put in the crucible and the crap's got to be burned off and you've got to learn a lesson you've gotta get down and all of a sudden you have change direction under duress and say I'll do it differently and change. You know I mean none of us would have been here. You know the greatest thing in all of our lives here is that one day we looked up and looked in the mirror and said who the hell am I kidding and we came into a group that we didn't want to be with, with people we didn'T want to be with and we stood in front of some people and we walked up to the front row and we picked up a white chip and none of us wanted to do that and nobody came in here and did that because they were riding the wave nobody came comes into Alcoholics Anonymous because I got money in the bank, I got a gal up there waiting for me, life is great I wonder what they're doing down at AA maybe it's time for me to check that out You know what I mean? Nobody comes in here because things are going good. Everybody comes in hierathe heels of horrible stuff going on. So horrible stuff isn't necessarily that bad if it leads you to changing direction and looking at yourself. So, you know, I want to talk a little bit about that kind of stuff. So let me read a few things, you Know, and some of this will be repetitious. And, you Now, the one final thing which is sort of obvious because a lot of this stuff deals with relationships. Some of it deals with spiritual growth. I absolutely believe. Now, this is an opinion, but I don't really believe it's an opinion because I think it's absolutely – unless you are reading, I guess it's possible as an alcoholic. Listen, if I'm dealing with – my wife said to me, you come home drunk one more time, I'm leaving you. I drove two blocks away. I was sober. I was an attorney trying major homicide cases. I drove two blocks away and I said to myself I wonder what she meant by that so if you've got the kind of mind where you can take if you come home drunk one more time I'm leaving you and you can turn that into what the fuck is she talking about if you can sort of like not get that you know what I mean sober I guess you could not get anything you see let me tell you how serious disease this is this is a disease where the big book could, in your face, tell you one thing specifically and you could say, I don't think they mean that. Because you don't want them to mean that because if they mean that, that means I got to give this up or I got a change. So you can make believe it doesn't mean that you could make believe. It means something else. You know, what does it say? We're filled with self delusion. Does it say in the 12 and 12 until and unless an alcoholic accepts his alcoholism and all its consequences, his sobriety will be precarious. Of real happiness, he'll find none at all. You either have to accept this. And you know what? I love the stuff in the big book. I love the stuff where it's in your face. No question about it. No doubt about it because it's right in your face. And yet still people are saying, yeah, but I don't think that's what it means. So let's go real fast and go through this thing. Here's Bill Wilson and concentrate you know in what they talk about as far as relationships because I absolutely believe my opinion is it's not only developing a relationship with listen when I came in here I didn't even know God existed or had nothing to do with the American Express card and stuff then when I finally started getting the idea that maybe exists or call upon him or do it because I wanted to be like so and so or such and such or I wanted it to have this thing even though I understand that I started developing a relationship where I was actually calling upon him or asking him or talking to him and yes I do believe no matter how dumb and stupid you are I do believe saying the Lord's Prayer at the end of a meeting counts. I believe saying, you know, you're talking about prayer and meditation. I believe when they say let's have a motive-side meditation at the beginning of a meeting and there's that 30-second pause and then you say the serene prayer, I believe that counts. That counts for prayer. That counts für meditation. I believe wenn ich das 24-Halbe-Buch, you kno, every day, you kenne, and then said a prayer saying god please don't let me drink today and that was my prayer not a big deal i believe that counts i believe all that stuff counts i don't believe it has to be in a cave with candles and a full lotus position i believe All That Stuff Counts i believe three o'clock in the morning you know when the when the huns are closing in and you don't have any money and they're foreclosing on the house and you know what you do and you feel like you want to die and you don't know what's going on and you feel like everything's going wrong and you're not going anywhere and you say, God help me. I believe that counts. You know, that may count more than anything else. So when it comes right down to it, when it come right down the deal, when it right down into the crunch and you think your life is over, you know, the steps are great and everything's great and the rooms are great but when it's three o'clock in the morning there's nobody there but you and you can't get to sleep because your mind's going 50 miles per hour. You understand what I'm saying? You know, I'm not sure the sixth step is going to do it for you. You know? It's going to have to do with your ability to say, God help me. God help my not to be. It's gonna have to deal with your inability to call upon him. You know who him is. You know he's the one who's gonna show you how to find the fellowship you crave. The one they talk about in Vision for You. See to it that your relationship with him is right and great events will come to pass for you and countless others. You know, if somebody's saying to me, see to it that your relationship with Him is right and great things will come to pass you or countless others, I'll tell you what. Now this may sound crazy. I would want at least try to contact somebody who might know who he was. Does that make any sense? If at the end of the book they say, see to It that your relationship with HIM is right and great events will come to pass for you and countless others, I would like make an effort to try to find out who that son of a bitch is. Or at least find somebody who might have spotted him. You know what I mean? Or read a book where they might talk about him. I wouldn't like X that thing out and go straight to, well, acceptance is the answer to all my problems. I'd want to know who that sucker is. They're always talking about him, right? You ever notice that? They're almost talking about them. I don't even know who he is. Half the time in here, I'm talking about they. I'm not talking about Him. You don't know who they are. They're the reason we're in here. You can go to any AA meeting, they'll talk about they. They did this to me, they did that to me. I can't believe what they're doing to me they're always doing this shit to me you know 90% of people in AA are talking about them you know, it says burning the idea into every man's life, wife or no wife child or no child, person or no person what does it say in the big book? We're alcohol, cannot manage our own lives there's no human power, no husband, no wife no this, no that, no this They forget it and all we do in AA is talk about they. In the big book, what's the solution? It says talk about him. Look to him. He's the one who will help you. In our dealing, we talk to him Nobody wants to talk about Him Where to find Him? Where is He? You don't want to talk About that stuff Okay Let's see whether I'll ever get to this My friend promised that when these things were done I would enter upon a new relationship with my creator That I would have the elements of a way of living Which answered all my problems A new relationship With my creator see those words are English and they mean something and they do not mean good orderly direction good order direction is something you do here's what good here's the difference the difference between good order direction is this if you're involved in good order direction that means you're doing something good because you're doing it you're in charge you'redoingit Because of self-will? Because you're just a good person? Because you are just smart? Because you just figured it out? It has nothing to do with any relationship. You're doing this. This is a book about a relationship. This is about, if this is about doing things perfectly, what happens when you stop doing things correctly? What happens when the day comes when you don't do good orderly direction? or the week comes when you don't do it right or when you get tired of doing it. But here's the deal. There's a difference between doing things perfectly and thinking about Al Kennedy, thinking about Joe Snyder, wondering about, thinking about my sponsor. I was eating dinner. I'm eating dinner, my sponsor John, he's got 52 years, he's now in Detroit. He took a plane to Detroit. As I'm meeting dinner, the phone rings. I'm here with a bunch of guys. You know why I'm here with a bunch of guys? I drove up with four guys. You know Why? Because I got a relationship with these guys. You know one of the reasons I showed up this week? Because I've got a relation with you guys. I'm expected to be here. I have a relation With people in Alcoholics Anonymous. I have friends here. While I'm at dinner, I get a phone call. It was from John Glenn. He said, How are you doing? I said, We're all here having dinner. You know, Why? Because I love him. He loves me. We have a relationship. You know if I was to drink, You know what I'd have to do? I'd have to leave you. I'd be able to see you. I wouldn't be able to hang out with you. I wouldn' be able to go back to the Canyon Club and see my buddies over there. I wouldn''t be able to see Rich G. over in L.A. I'd lose all my friends. How could I drink? How could i stop doing this? How could i stop hanging around? I'd loose my whole life. My whole life is a relationship with people and alcoholics and I'd have to stop going to my church. You know, everything that's important to my life is about what colors my life. Everything that's importante in my life that makes my life worthwhile is relationship with people. I'd have to stop seeing my granddaughter and loving her and stop seeing my wife and stop seein' my kids. I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the face. There'd be a lot of people that I would be losin' in my wife. I woudn't have anything. I would lose everything that is worth living for. So why do people drink? Because they don't have any of that stuff to start out with. Because they don't know how to start. They don't want to have that stuff going for them. Because whatever it is that stops me, whatever it isthat cements you in that relationship with God, that relationshipwith other people, the relationships are not there in the first place. And you know something? You know what that's like. You know what that's like? That's like the way you felt before you came into Alcoholics Center. You want to know what it feels like? It feels like how you felt before you became here. Alone, out there, nobody will understand like you're orbiting Jupiter. You remember how that felt? You want that shit back again? You can get in that shit sober. That's how that feels like. You want know why people drink? Because they get the way they were sober the way we were before you come in here. And you might as well fucking drink because there ain't nothing anyway. There ain't nothin' hookin' ya in. There's no relationship with God, there's no God help me, there's not Him, there's her, there's just they and they're all full of shit. I can see I'm not gonna get through this. My friend promised that when these things were done I would enter upon a new relationship with my creator that I would have the elements of a way of living which answered all my problems. Belief in the power of God plus enough willingness honesty and humility to establish and maintain the new order of things with the essential elements I really want to get into this other stuff but I'm so let me try to read this the great fact is just this and nothing less that we have had a deep and effective spiritual experiences which have revolutionized their whole attitude towards life towards our fellows and towards God's universe the central factor of our lives stays the absolute certainty that our Creator has entered into our hearts and lives in a way which is indeed miraculous he has commenced to accomplish those things for us which we could not do by ourselves okay here you go if what we have learned and felt and seen means anything at all means anything at all this is an in-your-face thing this is like in your face this is like this is the deal means anything it all it means that all of us whatever our race creed in color are children of a living creator with whom we may form a relationship upon simple and understandable terms as soon as we are willing and honest enough to try. They're saying if everything, if all this crap, everything we do here means anything, it means that every person in here can form a relation with God. And people ask me about a group my mother founded. You know what i mean my mother founded the free thinkers the no god group and he asked me what i think what am i going to say after reading that what am I supposed to say I don't know you're gonna have to chew this up and figure this out we think it no concern of what religious bodies they talk about religion in here you know religion religious body you know people i can't believe people in here talk down about religion if they had understand if they Had any understanding or religious organizations if they have any understanding how un-aa that is they sort of think like they're you know like they're better than oh we're spiritual we're not really we're Not like religion we're Spiritual if they Have any understanding what horse shit that was and how non-aa what that was and how Bill Wilson belonged to a church and Bob Smith belonged to a church. If they had any idea of the underpinnings of AA or what AA really talks about, if they had ever really read the book and knew what the book said, they'd shut their mouths. They just think they're smarter or somehow classier or more intellectual. They somehow delineate spiritual from religious. And believe me, you can be religious in the bad term. We think of no concern of ours what religious bodies our members identify themselves with as individuals, and that's true. This should be an entirely personal affair where each one decides for himself in light of personal associations or his present choice. Now listen to this. Not all of us join religious bodies. That's true, however, but most of us favor such memberships. What does that mean to you? If you join an organization, you want to be like those people, and you find like nine out of ten of them, most of them favor or unfavor. What does dat mean? Does that mean like it's a bad thing or it's something you should put down? I'll tell you, guys who have 15 years who are sucking their thumbs or 20 years who don't feel like they're getting more about this and they're trying to figure out what's going on and they'RE doing the same crap in AA they were doing when they had eight years or five years or to listen to some of this stuff and maybe read the book. That's what these people were involved in. It says, instead of – here it is, and they talk more about religion. We who have traveled this dubious path beg you, beg you to lay aside prejudice even against organized religion. You know, I don't want to clue you in on this, but I'm reading out of the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. This is as much a part of the Big Book as how it works that you read all the time. So next time somebody puts down churches or membership in churches, anybody talks about it, say, excuse me, have you actually read the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous or studied any of their history? But I can understand why you would say that if you are spiritually immature. If you were spiritually immature and your growth was stunted and you had no idea what the second step really stood for and you hade no idea of contempt prior to investigation that will keep you in everlasting ignorance, I can understand why an arrogant, know-it-all alcoholic would say that. Feeling superior as he's saying that without even knowing what the big book talks about. And I can also understand why a lot of people drink and only one half of 1% make it. Well, they think they're doing so good. Well, their spirit is not so good, because they're spiritually bereft because they are not growing to the next level. Because they have nothing to grow to. even our big book says we know only a little god will reveal to you more isn't that what it says what a shame that some guy has god revealed to him that maybe he should join it but people say to him you shouldn't do that that's religious we have learned that whatever human frailties various faiths may be those faiths have given purpose and direction to millions people of faith have a logical idea of what life is all about actually we used to have no reasonable reconception whatsoever. We used to amuse ourselves by cynically dissecting spiritual beliefs and practices when we might have observed that many spiritual-minded persons of all races, colors, and creeds were demonstrating a degree of stability, happiness, and usefulness which we should have sought ourselves. Instead, we looked at the human defects of those people and sometimes used their shortcomings as a basis of wholesale condemnation. Bill Wilson's real sponsor was a guy named Father Ed Dowling And also he had a great relationship with Sam Shoemaker from the Oxford organization. You know, you start reading into the history of this stuff. How about in the family afterwards? How about this little ditty right here in the Family Afterwards says, Alcoholics who have derided religious people will be helped by such contact. It says, Though a family has no religious connections, they may wish to make contact or take membership in a religious body. Alcoholics who have derided religious people Will be helped by such contacts Being possessed of a spiritual experience The alcoholic will find he has much in common With these people Though he may differ with them On many matters If he does not argue about religion That's a big one He will make new friends And is sure to find new avenues Of usefulness and pleasure And his family can be a bright spot In such congregations You know, I never looked at AA as a coffin where I lock myself in. It's like a secret society. You know what I mean? You know this should be an expanding thing. I have a lot of friends that are not in Alcoholics Anonymous. You know I have group that meets called the Lost Sheep Group. A lot of you – some of you guys are involved in it. We meet all the time. Guys in AA. I have senior pastors come there. We got all sorts of people there. We have a line in common. None of us drink. You know What I mean. We all believe in God, you know, and we're all at different points and we all just like talking to each other and hanging out together. I think it's a shame that people, you know why would I talk about this at an AA meeting? You know why I would talk about it? Why would I not talk about this at a AA meeting because it's in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous because it is in this book because they talk about in this books. So why shouldn't it be fair game? Why shouldn't I talk abut it? At 16 years over somebody tapped me on this is my story. This doesn't have anything to do with you. This is just my story when you are in the pool. You know what I used to do? I used go to AA meetings. I used to watch people do step meetings because I'd maybe get something from each one. Maybe this guy will know the secret. Maybe that guy will. Some guy said stuff I didn't understand. Some guy says something I did understand, you know? A is like a giant toolbox. Wrench fit every guy who walks through the door. Maybe this girl will be my wrench, you now? 16 years sober. Some guy tapped me on the shoulder and said, have you ever been to a Bible study? I'd read the Bible. I'd written the 24-hour book up until then, which is basically the Bible in the big book. I had read the Sermon on the Mount. I'd never gone to a Bibles study. I mean, I'm a Jewish kid from New York. What the heck would I be doing going to a Bibles study? But you know what, you know, what it said God couldn't hood would could and would if he was sought And you know What I was a seeker You know why cuz I'm in this program and I'm a see ker Because if you're in this programming you mean business you're a see Kerr. You're searching you're seeking you're looking you read I read that book I read those parts of the book where it says we don't put down organized religion I was open-minded I at first I was scared. You know, why I was let me tell you why I scared What will the you're gonna be ready for this? What will people in a say? Can you imagine that? What will the people in AA say if I go to a Bible study? Can you reimagine that? That's how sick this disease is. Well, God forbid the people in AA would think bad of me if I get better. If I do something different than a lot. Maybe I'll get criticized. But at 16 years sober, God had given me a gift of not giving a shit. Or something like that. That's probably an overstatement. I probably gave a shit, but not so much a shit that it stopped me. You know what I mean? And I went. I ran into guys just like me. Some of them were actually alcoholics. Some of whom got sober through the church. Some were just regular people with problems, you know? And I started reading the Bible. You want something? I've been doing it for 10 years. I'm now a deacon of that church. It's been a tremendous, tremendous help in addition to my spiritual program. Tremendous for me. Does that mean you have to join the church to become a deacons? No. I'm just talking about me. I'm talking about me because I want like one son of a bitch in here to understand that if he decides he wants to go that route, he doesn't have to be ashamed or say, and AA, we don't do that stuff. He can say, well, I know one guy who did it and I like that guy and I'm going to do it anyway. If I emboldened one guy to do this thing to follow the same path that a lot of the founders did, I'm doing okay. God knows we got enough guys that say it's horse shit. One guy can say it is okay to do that. Because I don't know a point where you get in this deal where you get to a point and you stop growing spiritually. I don't know a point in this thing where you stop going out and searching for people. That's where I met my sponsor, John Glenn. He's a Baptist preacher. He's got 50 years sober. He's an Alki. You'll see him in these rooms. I take him to every meeting all over the place. He loves going to these meetings. He loves doing this stuff. 52 years. Married 51 years. I look up to that man. I love him. He's gotta lot of faith. He loves AA. He doesn't even realize it's AA. He's been going to meetings for like 10 years, and he doesn't realize it'm AA. He's just crazy. I don't know. He just thinks they're preaching the gospel in here. Salvation through God. I don' t know. Nobody's told him the difference. He just sees it his way. I haven't had the heart to tell him that he may be right. So listen. Nobody's going to get hurt by this stuff. They're only words. It's all like a giant self-cleaning oven. Five years from now, most of the horse shit is going to burn off anyway. The only thing that stays here is truth. You never have to worry about truth. You never Have to worry About what you say in AA. Most people won't remember it. And five years from Now, most people that are listening to you Won't be here. The only people that Are going to be here are the people That are going to say something like, well, when I heard you, I thought you were crazy, but now I love you. Or some sort of crap like that. I've been around long enough to see that deal. But that's one of the things I've learned. I have to constantly be growing. I can't allow fear, especially fear of what other people think about me, to stop me from moving on. And you know what this does? You know what This Deal does? It keeps out the pretenders. It keeps at the pretendors, the fakers, the ones that really aren't serious. You can't coast on this thing. It says it's easy to rest on our laurels and coast with our program, but we're always – you cannot – you never reach the point where you're saying, okay, I got it. I'm sober. I've got a handle on it. I know. I understand like rose in heaven. I'm coasting. It always leads to, I always, even as I'm at that Bible study or I'm doing those things or I're involved with those people, even as Iím doing those, thereís a tendency in me as an alcoholic to say, okay, surely now, after 25 years of doing it, surely now Iím okay. Forget it. Itís always more. This guy sent me a book. Iíve always got to look for more. Iíve also got to do this. Iíve got to always got a look for that next level. I have a tendency to coast and relax all the time, but itís always looking for that Next Level. And I know there's a lot of people in here that are going to be looking for that next level. They're going to keep on going. There's going to some people, unfortunately, that aren't. They're gonna sort of rest under the laurels and they're gonna find themselves out there. You know, because it's the relationship that keeps me away from the drink. The relationship with you, the relationship with other people, the greater relationship with others and the greater friendship with other people. It's not the actual like intellectual sort of process of I figured this out in my mind like the Roland Hazard deal. At least that's been my experience. So thank you very much. Next week we'll do step 12. Thank you.