Emotional Sobriety – Workshop – Glasgow Scotland – Part 1 of 8 – Tina W.

Tina. Wayne and alcoholic. Tina, alcoholic. I guess this thing is working. Okay. It looks like it's working. Is it working? Look, Ma, no hands. Yeah, that's going. We're good to go. It's working? I just want his approval. I want to thank Patrick and whoever else was involved in us coming here for inviting Tina and I to come to your country to pass on our experience related to a topic that proved to be very interesting for me and completely altered my life in AA. Did you introduce yourself? I did. Tina started doing this workshop a year and a half ago. my best friend T.J. Minogue out of Chicago of the County Cork Minogues he did this workshop with me for 10 years and then a couple years ago he got married and now he's expecting their second child a boy and he's all happy, happy, unhappy so I fired him from the workshop mainly because he's happy and then Tina came into the close quarters so to speak, two years ago and I asked her if she wanted to get involved in the workshop. She said yes and it's been perfect. We'll talk more about that as the weekend goes by. I'm glad you guys are here. We've got a couple of disclaimers we want to get out of the way right away. We are not here to tell anybody they're doing anything wrong. Please hear that. We're not here telling you we're doing anything right. We're not telling you that you're doing AA wrong and that we're dealing AA right and conversely we're not telling you're doing it right and we're doing it wrong we're here to share some experience about a subject that I'm sure is over here in your country too because alcoholism knows no boundaries and so I know it's here I know if we'll get into that more later on but if we're all human beings and I'm I'm looking around the room and a couple of you I'm suspicious about but it looks to me like we're all humans here and alcoholism comes in people not in bottles alcohol does but millions and millions and millions of people drink alcohol as we all know safely and it's not an issue to them every now and then they drink a little bit too much and people like me get to catch them i became a cop when i was sober i'll tell you more about that later on but uh i arrested a lot of people for drunk driving that were not alcoholic they just drank a little bit too much and got caught because I was on the job and I could smell it in the air and then I spot the car I know they're here somewhere it's like I'll be in a meeting, my nose is just like yours, my noise is real sensitive and I can tell vodka too because it sweats out your skin how many of you thought at one time that you drink vodka because they can't smell it yeah, until you sweat ok And by the way, I don't tell slippers that because I want to catch them. We're also here to have a little bit of fun. I like mixing business and pleasure. And I'm in the business of living. I'm In the business Of passing on what was freely given to me. And I am going to pass it on To you freely as well. And I would suggest That if you identify, that's cool. If you don't, take What you need and leave the rest On the shelf for future reference Because you might run into A drunk like me that needs to know what you found out. And I've got to tell you there's a lot of us. As many alcoholics as there are, this is no derogatory of this workshop but if this was a big book reading then this isn't big enough. This place would be overwhelmed with people but anytime you assigned emotional sobriety or anything other than just going to meetings and reading the big book, people don't have a tendency to show up. But I would rather have a group of 20 people that are interested in finding out about that state of grace Bill Wilson talked about. Emotional sobriety the next frontier. Here's why emotional sobrietry at best how many of you understand mercury? At best it's mercurial it's something you really can't hold onto for any length of time and it's interesting because mercury is poisonous, it'll kill you if it gets into your blood and you can't pin it down of course that sounds like my emotional nature and so we're here to not only talk about sobriety but emotional sobriery and it's my opinion that the day I took my last drink my emotional sobrietry journey began and if you notice what I put up on the board this is my story 24 years ago this wasn't yours, maybe, but it's mine maybe it is yours I'm sober 7 years I go to meetings every day every flippin' day I'm in a meeting and I'm really happy about it I have a big book I even read it I pray any other prayers? I pray I'm not mocking I'm reporting I have a sponsor I sponsor others I work the steps so why do I still feel bad anybody relate I'll tell you what good question Tina added that good question indeed thank you for that and that really is probably the topic of this entire weekend that Tina and I are going to share with you some very interesting things that I can't back up as an expert I can only back them up from my personal experience having been locked away much of my life in psych wards treatment centers over there we call them insane asylums we call em over here nut houses I like em by the way I am not offended by psych warts I really like it there I'll tell you why they have girls there and I can't get a date out there but I got a shot on a psych ward I'll show you that right now the nurses find me charming so we're here this weekend to share our experience to have a bit of fun, to have a bit business done to hopefully enlighten you with some things that maybe you don't know about the spiritual malady of alcoholism we're going to talk about some hot button topics that some old ideas that have been crept into AA from the well meaning people outside that think they know better than we of AA do those of us who have the personal experience and I had the experience I have because the old timers of AA taught me well and they also let me crash and burn too they said oh there he goes again he's on a pink cloud he better open up that pink parachute and the investigation I mean I want to open up with that idea Did I get the disclaimers out of the way? We don't speak for AA, we don't get paid to do this. How many of you are, how many of you were, we do not get paid to do this? You might hear the rumor, I make a lot of money. I beg your pardon. I wish those people would say that to my face. But they never do because they know their line. I heard that one too. I want to know where he's hiding it. Well, that could be a shot if I wasn't well adjusted. That's not a you. Oh, yeah, there's rumors that I make a lot of money, that I get paid a lot. You know what? I do this for fun and for free. Tina and I went to London a week ago, spent a week in a bed way too small. I swear to God, both our feet hung off the end of the bed. And, of course, we had to cuddle because the bed was only about a foot wide. But we got over it. We didn't get a resentment. We got another room. We came here. We was there for five days, and now we've been here since Tuesday. Some friends of ours came from South End, Essex County, right? South End-on-Sea, beautiful place. We were there in April and did a workshop for them, and we had a great time. And we walked away with a couple of new friends. And we will hopefully walk away with a couple new friends this weekend. We got many friends from our past here supporting the workshop and hopefully pick up more insight that makes us more valuable to still suffer an alcoholic because isn't that really why we're here and there's a certain type of alcoholic I think in my opinion that's really being going untreated in AA and it's innocent we're going to talk about that this weekend we're gonna talk about that We're going to talk about that this weekend So I covered We're not speaking for AA We don't represent AA We're speaking for ourselves We don' t get paid to do this We don''t make any money to do This What else If you're like me He can say I do something wrong And what I hear is Because I'm a funny hearer Anybody else He talks about his own experience and I think he's indicting me. So nobody's doing anything wrong. Here's an interesting thing. If you haven't figured it out yet, Tina and I are engaged to be married. We're in a relationship. And when I acknowledge parts of her condition, she hears that as an indictment of her character. Anybody else? I used to do that too. Someone would gently take my inventory by telling me something about themselves. Have you ever had that happen? Somebody telling you something about themselves and what you hear is, don't talk to me like that. It's not an indictment. Whatever we share with you this weekend, most of you I don't really know well enough to be bold enough to address you directly because I don' t know you. so if you hear me talking to you in such a way you get mad at me you're misinformed what we're going to do is we're gonna throw a whole bunch of shoes out on the floor this weekend and if any of them pinch your feet put on the right size any others? we got the disclaimers pretty much out of the way ok Now, when I work with sponsees I always say repeat back to me What you just heard But I'm not doing that tonight Because what you might have heard Might not be what I just said But we're going to find out So, we're gonna talk about this weekend As an overview We're obviously going to talk about the book The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous We're not going to read it to you I don't mean no disrespect But I've sat through a few big book seminars They're very interesting but they bore the bejeebers out of me and you know I mean I love the big book don't take that the wrong way we're not going to read to you I think you're capable of reading by yourself to yourself with yourself was that non-sexual? ok where did that come from? ok we're going to promise you this whatever we share with you unless we put a footnote with it Whatever we share with you can be reconciled in AA-approved literature. Now, if you're a big book thumper, what you just heard was it will be reconciled in the big books. That's what you heard. But what I said was you will be able to reconcile it in AA approved literature. And that means one of our 63 pieces of literature, which includes all our books, pamphlets. and secondly it can be reconciled within AA history the only thing that can be reconciling in AA literature is whatever pictures I choose to draw those are not AA approved but then neither am I so there you have it as a matter of fact if you talk to certain people you'll find out I'm AA disapproved it just depends who you're speaking to at any given moment in time we're not here to indict anybody in AA anywhere. I've been sober, my sobriety date What is that? Oh it's not in here, okay. I'm hearing things and indeed I am. My sobriiety date is November 8, 1977. Mine is October 10, 1984. That's interesting. Between us we have 55 years and neither one of us is ever wrong. I'm kidding. We have a lot of fun because we're both history buffs of AA. And I want you to know what that does. Being a history buff gives me the ability to take what's going on in AA today and gauge it against something so that I'm not taken advantage of by well-meaning people who are passing out pills, powders, potions, and lotions as a quick cure, as opposed to the prescription called Alcoholics Anonymous. And I'm going to tell you my experience related to being misdiagnosed many, many times and I'm not blaming the doctors. I want you to hear that. They misdiagnozed me because of my faulty symptomatic reporting skills. That is really annoying isn't it? Can we do something about that? It's probably not annoying to you, but I'm anal. Anal retentive. That's why we needed Dr. Bob. He was a proctologist, which means he worked on, you know. And Bill said 50% of us were like that, so we need Dr. Bobby. Okay. It's very interesting. I don't know how many of you know the history of Bill Wilson and the 12 and 12. The big book, of course, was written and published in 1939 and Bill Wilson's depression worsened and Bill Wilson didn't get well. Remember, I was seven years sober when I said this. I mean, I want to be open and honest this weekend. I'm going to be transparent and I'm gonna share things with you in a general way that I gotta tell you the truth I really am not happy about sharing but the book tells me to do so, so that someone new or suffering might be able to identify and have hope How many of you may feel this way or have felt this way in the past year? Why do I still feel bad sober? How many of us want to raise our hand in a meeting and admit that? Yep, I'm sober. 31 years in. I feel like crap because some sharp shooter with three weeks is going to jump up and say, Why'd you work a program? Then I have to sponsor him. Bill Wilson was sober 12 years from December 11, 1934 although he didn't take credit for his sobriety date until June 10, 1935 that's important isn't it Bill was already sober 6 months he had 6 months on Dr. Bob but the day that Dr. Pop took his last drink June 10th is actually Bill Wilson's predicated sobriete date even though he took his first drink December 11th 1934 very interesting isn't because I've met a lot of people who stopped drinking 2 or 3 years before they come to AA and then they claim that when they get to AA. They weren't sober in AA. I've also seen people who go away from AA for 10 years and come back and declare that 10 years in AA they weren't sobre in AA were they? I'm not indicting anybody I'm just stating the fact it can mislead them into thinking they got something they don't have and that can be fatal not that they shouldn't do that it's just a perception so I'm no here to bang anybody out I'm just here to look at my own experience compared to Bill Wilson because when I was 70 years sober should I tell you about that a little bit I'm 70 years over I weigh 146 pounds I'm more depressed than I've ever been in my entire life I got sicker sober after I met you guys it went bad how many of you know somebody that got worse after they stopped drinking I didn't understand that maybe it's the person in your chair I don't know I was under the impression that once I got sober I'd be okay I was a miracle I was told you're a miracle I don't have to do nothing I'm a miracle I don' t know about you but when stuff like that filters into me I'd do something with it it gets strange and then I read in a big book where it says I'm strangely insane, so I understand why I filter stuff funny we're going to share with you some insights we've discovered about ourselves that will allow me to shed some light on why people like me, and I presume some if not all of you, have that same filtration system spiritually when I was 70 years sober I weighed 146 pounds I was going to meetings every day two a day, three on Saturday, four on Sunday and I couldn't understand why it was getting worse and worse and worse. Some people in AA even said Wayne you're going to too many meetings Balance, that's the thing Balance We'll undo that little theory later on Balance No, I'll do it right now Balance is relative to the individual concerned Nobody knows what balance means to me Balance for me might be 50 meetings a week and it might be 5 for you but when people start telling me what my balance is my ears perk up because how do you know how does anybody know for sure so I was going to two meetings a day, three on Saturday, four on Sunday I was working a full time job and raising five kids when I was five years sober I was letting the sponsor stay at my house and I guess I let him stay just a little too long because I came home from an AA dance that my wife didn't join me with and I came home and found her in bed with my sponsee. It appeared to me he wanted what I had. And from the looks of things, he won't go to any lengths to get it too. We got divorced. That was, oh my God, that was 26 years ago we got divorced There's times I still think about that and I still miss my spensee. meetings every day I had a sponsor I sponsored half the city of Moline, Illinois I was as busy as you could be praying every day doing everything that you could possibly throw at this thing and I was doing it to the best of my ability which means I was done I was just doing it right I was dong it to the rest of my ablity and I'm worse now than I've ever been and I don't know about over here and by the way let me throw a disclaimer out there if anybody's on medication or seeing a doctor I am not judging you or giving you an opinion I'm talking about my own experience because I've lived my whole life on medication and for the first time in my life I'm clean of it I'm 7 years physically sober and free of psychiatric medication and I'm worse and of course I'm starting to think that's it because I got people telling me Butler, you ought to go back on that medication and I am thinking yeah, maybe I should. I can't drink, damn it. And someone's put it in my ear. You know, you hear a lot of people in the States say we're not doctors. We don't tell people not to take medication which is a fair statement but they also should not tell you to take it either. And when you don't know what's wrong with you here's something that's very interesting when I don't Know What's Wrong With Me I am susceptible to believing in what anybody tells me. And I was like a human sick sponge. Anything sick came right in and stuck because I didn't know what's wrong with me. What? One of the biggest questions I have is what is wrong with you? With me. By the way, these are just for me so I don't forget where I'm at. You might not be able to read it sometime. What's wrong avec moi? Anybody else ever have that in their mind? What's wrong with me? Why do I feel funny? Why do i feel like i don't... I'm in AA. I'm sober seven years. I go to meetings. I sponsor the world. I visualize. I'm going to be the legend of AA, I can tell. I sit in meetings and I stare at Bill and Bob's picture on the wall and I visualize mine floating up between them. Wow. I'm gonna be a big deal in an anonymous organization. what's wrong with me now I know there's something where was I going with that we're talking about 7 years sober well thank you what's the problem what's going on with me and when you don't know what's gone with you let me rephrase that because I didn't know what was wrong with my I was asking people what's goign on with my and I got news for you they'll tell ya won't they and they'll tell you quick and they won't make it feel good either sometimes they even tell you before you ask anybody have experience with that sometimes it sounds like this you know you never smile I always say well talking to you gives me no reason you don't look so good today and then when they take a shot at me as soon as I say that they go like this then I say why aren't you smiling Bob I had a bit of sarcasm tucked away for future reference because I didn't know what was wrong with me and because I didn' t know what's wrong with m I'm going around asking people in my own way what's going on with me I don't know whats wrong with mee What's wrong with me? And of course they're going to tell me. And pretty soon, I don't know why I'm doing this, but I'm believing everything I'm being told and I don'T know what to do with that information. I'M SEVEN YEARS SOBER. I CAN SEE MY GURU NUM-DUM COMING. I'M GOING TO LEAD A.A. SOMEDAY. AS SOON AS CERTAIN PEOPLE DIE AND GET OUT OF MY WAY. And I'm in a meeting somewhere, and someone said, Butler, why don't you go get back on medication? Well, I never thought of that. Yeah. So I didn't talk to my sponsor, of course, because he seemed to have such a solid voice. So I called the doctor, and he knew my case. And here was my opening statement to the doctor. Doc, AA isn't working for me. That was my opening statement. Now I wouldn't have told you that if you'd asked me what I said to the doctor then. But I can tell you now as I look back, I said, AA's not working for us. It's not for me, I'm ten times worse now than I ever was. I sit in meetings and I plot things that are bad. And of course I make it worse because I want them to understand how bad I am. I say I'm plotting to kill people. He says, really? And I said, you know there's times I think about killing myself. Really? Another little note and he says, do tell. We go in there, he draws my blood, does some tests and he diagnoses me. An hour later. He diagnoses мне three things. He diagnosis me something I never heard of before. Bipolar. Chemical imbalance. I thought, is that like trying to hold a pill on your tongue when they're trying to make you take it? Chemical imbalance. Bipolar chemical imbalance. Antidepressant. Which, by the way, I thought was the same thing. And he prescribed three medications. I'm seven years sober. He prescribed lithium. Which is a salt imbalance. A salt. And the first thing he said was, don't worry, it's not mind-altering to make it okay for me to take it in the eye. and then he prescribed a medication I never heard of before some of you ladies that are more mature than others did I do that good? well you haven't answered yet called amitriptyline now back in the day they gave women amitripoline for PMF which would beg the question why are you giving it to me? but it was a pain blocker and an antidepressant one of the first ones and then he prescribed he asked me if I'd participate this is 1984 1984 there was a new research program underway in Iowa right across the creek from where I lived and it was you were allowed to participate if you qualified the symptoms, the doctor recommends you and he asked me if I wanted to participate in this free drug trial now they won't tell me about it he says well we give some patients a sugar pill and we give other ones the medication and hopefully we'll be able to treat your condition and if you're willing to do this we'll give you free medication free tests and we'll pay you a living stipend that sounded to me like a job and my sponsor wanted me to get a job and so I said ok now that drug was approved by the FDA and they call that Prozac have you heard of that? and I said I'm in because my symptoms are worse than they've ever been I'm sitting around meetings looking at you and hating your guts. Because you're happy, happy, happy? I'm happy, joyous, and free. Couldn't die, Bob. But I put on a smile. I put it on a small smile so you don't know how bad I feel inside. I mean, I feel bad inside. I'm doing my best not to let you know it. So I run from meeting to meeting. I'm like Stark raving sober. You ever know anybody that's SRS? Stark rave and sober. and we race from meeting to meeting to meeting, and I didn't know why I did that we're going to share that with you tomorrow morning I understand now why I was compelled to race to meeting to meeting to meet, spiritually I identified that so as those as that symptomatology has come to the surface, and i'm cold stone sober, nothing in my body, going to meetings every day, 7 years When that doctor prescribed those three chemicals for me, I thought, God, I hope that does it because I can't take it anymore. Maybe AA and the meds will work. Do you hear that? My mind is racing for an answer. So I got my bag of pills. And here's something very interesting. He gave me a bag of bills to take home. And I swear before God, I never took them. I just had them in my hand. And I relaxed. that's an unusual reaction to medication. How many of you have been restless, irritable, discontent, and out of your flipping mind? And you put a little drinky-poo in your hand and it felt better before you drank it. That's an abnormal reaction to alcohol. I called my sponsor. Barney is not the kind of guy to tell you not to take a pill if the doctor tells you to. He's not that kind of a guy. I called him up I said Barney I know what's wrong with me he said do tell I said I'm bipolar and he says we know I said I got some pills that's going to fix me he says really he said meet me at the maid right where I'm from the maid ride is a sloppy joe burger joint so I showed up the restaurant's full because you know the old timers can't do it privately they have to have a show I come walking in and there's Barney sitting at the table with six of his cronies so they can all judge me and make fun of me. That's what I'm thinking. And I'm walking in with my bag of pills. Got it? And I am actually feeling well. Have you ever been really, really sick and just the more you think about it, the sicker you get, and the more você pensa sobre isso, the mais você se sente mais doente, e depois você chega no escritório do médico e você não vê o médico, você está esperando e você começa a sentir melhor. Anybody identify with that? Ain't that the dangest thing? The symptoms begin to dissipate while you're waiting to see the doctor. The doctor ain't seen you. He's plotting the bill, but he ain't seeing you yet. I come walking in there and I sit down and I'm actually happy. It's the first real hope I've had in seven years. In my mind. Because now I think I know what's wrong with me. I'm bipolar, antidepressant with a chemical imbalance and I've got what's going to fix me right here in this bag. And I said to my sponsor, I said, God, I finally know what is wrong with my life. What's wrong on me? I'm bi-poor. And one of the other guys said, you're damned right you are. We know you're bipolar. We've been watching you. We've known for a long time you're bi-polar. And then Barney yells out, yup, in one of these days you're going to be walking down 16th Street and you're gonna hear the loudest explosion you've ever heard. And I said, what's that? Says he, it's gonna be your head popping right out of your ass. And you won't be bi-polar no more. That hurt my feeling. And I said, what do you mean? Now, this is where it gets hinky. He didn't say don't take him. Here's what he said. He said, dummy, I don't know what's wrong with you. Is there something strange about you? He says, you're a strange kind of alcoholic. He says you've got problems I never had. And he says, but here's what I do know. He says I've read an awful lot about our history. and you seem to be an awful lot like that Bill W. character while I appear to be a lot like that Dr. Bob character now I had no idea what he was talking about do you? I had No Idea I thought who's Dr.Bob I was about to become a history buff and didn't know it he says yeah he says Bill Wilson got worse after his spiritual experience not better Dr. Bob got better and never got worse again now I knew that was supposed to mean something but I kind of went like huh? he says I don't understand it but he says I think you need to now how about that boy I'm so glad he didn't say shut up you don't need to know doesn't just do what I tell you I'm glad he did instead what he said was here's what I suggest you do And by the way, this weekend incorporates a lot of that information. He said, here's what I suggest you do. Now, when I say he wanted me to get a job, I was working, that's just for fun. I was workin' a full-time job. And Barney says, why don't you take a leave of absence? If they won't let ya, quit your job. Now how's that for a sponsor? I've been waitin' for a sponsorship to tell me I'm goin' on a plane for a long time. He says, try to get leave of absences. If they don't give it to you, quit. and go find out what Bill Wilson did, because here's what I found out. He said, Bill Wilson recovered completely. Now that I never heard. I've been hearing how Bill Wilson had depression, dropped acids, smoked pot, did all kinds of stuff, and got away with it. Have you heard it like that? We hear it like over there all the time. We call that myth information. The way they applied it. It was critically important because I have to tell you, I would be dead right now if it wasn't for my sponsor pointing me in that direction. I had no idea. I'm sitting in meetings wondering what's wrong with me. I'm looking at some AA people and they come in and get sober and they're fine and they stay that way. And I think, well, I must be a creep. I must have a crapola program. Because they come into AA and they are wonderful, wonderful, and they fall. I'm happy, joyous, and free. And I go to one meeting a week whether I need it or not. And I pray for them, but they won't drink. And I'm coming out of my flipping skin. And I know some other people that are emotionally the same way I am. We don't know what to do. Here's my little sponsor, William Barney Barnett. By the way, he was my sponsor for 29 years, 5 months, and 14 days. And I literally would worship the ground he walked on. I know he's not God. But he was God's advocate, I'm here to report. And some people tried to tell me I was too connected to him. Those people almost killed me because they didn't know. They didn't understand the connection and they didn' t need to understand the connection. I did. Now I'm going to talk about that later on too, not just Barney, but I'm going to talking about a thing that Bill Wilson opened the door to in 1958 and was writing about when he passed away in 1971 and that's something that I found. So, Barney says to me, why don't you go find out what happened to that Bill Wilson character? Because, you know, Bill Wilson was from New York and he spent a lot of time in Ohio, California, Chicago, but not in podunk Moline, Illinois. My sponsor never said he met Bill W. He never used that as a buffer against reality. You know, like When somebody started to take his inventory, he said, yeah, but I knew Bill. I talked to Bill as though that meant something about her recovery. What Barney said was, I don't know what's wrong with you. There's something strange about you. He says, why don't you go find out what Bill was like and what Bill did. And he said don't talk to anybody else in AA about it because they're going to give you their agenda. he says there's people that have never met Bill Wilson in their lifetime and they got judgments to make about him, he says go read everything he wrote and that the non-alcoholics wrote about him I thought that was judgment of our program, and he says no the only thing, he said AA is a perfect program, there's only one thing wrong with it, there are people in it by the way I'm a people, so I don't help that imperfect part a one little bit but what he said made sense didn't it you see because i run because i appear to be a people pleaser and an approval seeker anybody else with that tendency oh yeah thank you i'm glad you're in the right room today because i'm a people pleasure and approval seeger i'm easy i easily allow my mind to be changed even while i look stubborn about it And I consciously and unconsciously seek validation for everything I'm doing, only I do it very belligerently. So you won't think I'm a sissy or an easy pushover. And then I bluster and get violent if I have to, to readjust the TV. You know what I mean? What I did was I tried to get a leave of absence from that job and I couldn't get it, so I quit. and of course the sharpshooters came out, Butler's a loser he doesn't work that's when it started, Butler doesn't work, he's a looser he lives off people in AA they're out there, the gossips, the judgmental we're here, it's just the way it is in AA, we have to accept that or we can't live in a society made up of very sick people this is not the boardroom of mental health I spent eight months very interesting, I spent eight months going to California New York, Vermont and around Akron following Bill Wilson's history I wanted to know how, and I found here's why I did that, I found a letter it's a very interesting letter perhaps you've read it, perhaps you have not it's hanging on the wall at the Akron archives it's so profound. It's a letter that looks innocuous innocent it wouldn't mean nothing really if it didn't get put together with other things that letter was a letter written in 1970 by Bill W himself to two fellow AAs who had written him about this terrible depression they were having, this terrible depression and they wanted to know, they was begging Bill to tell them how in God's name have you lived in AA this long and survived your depression all these years because they were under the same impression I was under, Bill was depressed and never got over it how did you survive the LSD they heard all the rumors and the rumors that got expanded into it was a bad deal you know what I mean Bill Wilson wrote him back and I found that letter he said dear fellow AAs I'm going to paraphrase I want you to trust this go read the letter yourself I'm dead serious this letter altered my life he said fellas that's not true I overcame my depression in 1956 it has never returned to this day now that struck a chord because I thought wait a minute I want to authenticate his signature I want to make sure he wrote it You know what I mean? I went right to doubt. We'll talk about that tomorrow morning. I went straight to doubt and Gail, the archivist authenticated that letter for me and it's hanging there in full view for everybody to see. That's how important it is. I found that letter before it was authenticated. I found it and I thought oh my God is there hope for me? Oh my God. And that led me to another letter another letter, another article, another letter another tool until I found out how Bill Wilson overcame that what was not a clinical depression like they called it. See they called the clinical depression. Father Ed Dowling called it something else. He called it a depression of a spiritual nature Are you following along? Now I'm not a doctor so I'm nicht pretending to be a doctor I'm coming from my own personal experience I thought, why do I feel the way I feel in AA all these years? Now if I hadn't been working the steps, if I haven't been sponsoring and being sponsored, it would have been obvious. You could have just said, well you ain't working the stops. But I was doing it all. I was throwing everything I had at it and I was getting worse and worse and worst. I could not understand why. So it's a logical assumption that it must be a chemical imbalance of some kind. Something medical. That was my assumption. And then I found out that Bill Wilson recovered fully without taking nothing. How did he go from the pits of hell, and I don't mean up here because that's just as abnormal as that is. How did Bill get up to here and operate in a normal range of emotion? Seemingly without any effort, I thought. How did you do that? because when I took medication before AA, it went like this. I never had no highs, but I never have no lows. I never got nothing. And I thought this was better. I thought that this right here was better for a while and then I started taking too much of my psychiatric medication to give a little blip on the radar if you know what I mean. What's wrong with me? How did Bill get from here to here and stay there. Now would that not cause an interest to you? That got my attention. I wanted to know because he'd been going come on, he was a co-founder of AA for crying out loud. I mean he was the man. He had God in his pocket, you know what I mean? So why is he depressed all these years? So in 1946 Bill almost 12 years sober is in worse depression than he ever was in how did he come out of it by 1956 10 years later without taking medication how do you do that wouldn't you want to know I wanted to know because I was about to take medication again and my experience with medication is it stops everything including growth. It just kind of that's my experience with it. It just kind of held me in a pattern of in my mind hopelessness. Oh yeah, I wasn't experiencing the high highs and the low lows but I wasnít happy. And I drank because I couldnít stand that so I drank. I donít want to drink no more. Am I really alcoholic? Now Iím starting to think Iím not alcoholic I'm 70 years sober maybe I just overestimated maybe if I had a drink or two and by then we're going to talk about that in the next session but by then I'd realize that I can't drink alcohol safely and I can live like this what am I going to do I'm 7 years sober I pulled that .357 out at home I just cleaned it I just polished the bullets because I don't want to get lead poisoning I'm not lying to you. I sat there and polished my bullet like Barney Fife. I don't know if you get that show over here, Mayberry RFD or what was it? Andy Griffiths. I'm in Scotland. Okay, Andy Griffits. He was a deputy sheriff that was really a goof, and he only was allowed one bullet. So I'm sitting there polishing my bullet, and I am going to kill myself. I can't take it. I can'T go to AA anymore and say, look, this isn't working. and I really don't want to take the medication and I had a .357 in my mouth and I couldn't pull the hammer you know I can I can still taste the hoppy gun oil you hear me? and instead I found that letter and that letter gave me hope and then like an idiot I took it to a meeting said look what I found and I'm going to tell you a string of about 10 people in AA told me to knock it off and go take the medication just knock it all out I'm not putting it down, I'm just saying we got people in AA that don't understand this aspect of alcoholism that Bill W had because many of us don't suffer from it I happen to and I bet you some of the people in this room do too, even if you don't know it we're about to enlighten that because there's going to be people coming to AA after we're done here this weekend that's going suffer the exact way I'm going to lay out tonight that I found Bill Wilson suffered emotionally and mentally after he was sober that not only saved my life but that information has allowed others to alter the course of their sobriety because I suffer I'm not just alcoholic I suffer from alcoholism and you might wonder what's that a play on words not when the big book was written and not when a 12 and 12 was written I'm going to prove that to you but I want to know how Bill got here from 1946 late 46 to 1956 early how did he go from here to here of course he had to overshoot the mark and then he leveled without medication how did you do that? I wanted to know anybody else interested in that? I wantedto know and so I spent 8 months after I found that letter and it's interesting I've been called an intense neurotic anybody else? that was one of the nicer things I've been called I have these neurotic tendencies we'll go into that more I found out that neuroses is almost always a negative response to a spiritual maladjustment I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't done this research so I'm a neurotic I didn't know what that meant found out Bill Wilson was classified as a neuretic now he had three people working with him that were not alcoholic Father Ed Dowling Dr. Harry Thiebaud and Reverend Sam Shoemaker and this is after who was considered the greatest clinician of his time Dr. Carl Jung had told Roland Hazard that science had nothing left to throw at him go pray science had nothing left to give Roland Roland H we're going to get more into that later on there's a point that I want to make that will probably give you a whole different slant on what Bill Wilson meant when he wrote the B of ABC, that probably no human power could relieve us of alcoholism. This is going to put a whole difference slant on it than what perhaps you've heard because it once again changed the course of my life in Alcoholics Anonymous. Let me give you some history background. please check this out at your own leisure everything I'm sharing with you is as I found it I'm not taking advantage of it I promise it's too critical could mean somebody's life I'm just saying I'm playing with it in 1946 a couple of guys out of the east coast were mad we had left the Oxford group how many of you know about the Oxford Group Dr. Bob was in the Oxford groups Bill got sent to the Oxfordgroup through a phone call to Mayflower Hotel. He connected up with Dr. Bob who was in the Oxford group and who could not get sober in the Osford group. Isn't that interesting? Dr. Robb is already in the Osferd group and he, Roland, is with June. Dr. Bobs already in the Osferrd group a huge Christian movement. They are praying over him five nights a week because his wife is leading the prayer. and he can't stop drinking. As a matter of fact, he's showing up at Oxford group meetings drunk and being told to leave. He can't get sober in religion. Roland Hazard can't get sober in psychiatry. Now you've got Bill W who was told by Dr. Silkworth I believe our book says the foremost expert in the treatment of alcoholic and drug addiction isn't that what our book says medicine medicine says to Bill we got nothing else to throw at you except one suggestion don't drink are you following me medicine medicine don't drink that's all they got psychiatry says go pray got nothing else for rolling the usher group told Bob to leave got it because they're tired of his act I'm going to do it now that probably no human power could relieve us of our alcoholism Bill Wilson was talking about medicine, psychiatry religion and therapy he was not talking about us as peoples and we'll of course go into that more as the weekend goes along to show how many people like me manipulate no human power how many of you heard that no humanpower that means I don't need a sponsor not really, no humanpower people can't help you so just pray and of course what comes back is my voice in the reverberation that probably no humanpower he's talking about medicine, psychiatry, religion, therapy It doesn't mean they can't help, but they can relieve us of our alcoholism. So, of course we know that Bill 12-step Bob, Bob finally took his last drink and everything else is history. But more history used to be made. In 1946, we of course left the Oxford group early on. They didn't like us there anymore, did they? You know, I was a real Christian outfit with a lot of elderly women. Rich, filthy, rich women. and the drunks the atheists especially they didn't like the atheics and they started fights and so the Oxfordites wanted us out and we didn't want to leave you know how we are once we find three hots in a cot we don't wantto go we finally left the Oxford group Clarence Snyder left first went to Cleveland and then Bill and Bob left started Akron group number one at King School which is still going on today Memorial Parkway Bill of course hung out with Dr. Bob for a while then went back to New York and started the first group in New York fondly called The Last Mile years go by 1946 there's a couple of guys from the east coast that are really still resentful not that we left the Oxford group but that Bill edited out Christianity they wanted that left in because when we were in the incubation period we was very Christian because of the Oxford group but we soon found out thanks to our first atheist who got it called God as we understood him we realized that everybody has to be welcome it doesn't matter if you're Jewish, atheist, agnostic Christian, Muslim, it doesn'T matter everybody's walking in AA and it had to be that way well these two fellows out of the east coast didn't like that they wanted Christianity left in AA so they wrote their own interpretation of the 12 steps slanting toward religion and then a company, a new treatment program out of center city Minnesota published that book called the little red book by the way it is a good book but the reason it's not AA approved is because it's their personal opinion and it's all based in Christian religion, the whole thing and when they wrote that interpretation of the 12 steps people was buying it left and right and bringing it into meetings and bringing back Christianity and the atheists got uncomfortable and they didn't like it and they started contacting Bill that was a frightening period of our history bill very clever man for a bankrupt stock speculator he knew the only way to counteract that was to replace it right don't say that for the effect produced by alcohol we need a sufficient substitute okay well people were buying it which said we want we want something like that so what bill decided to do since the 12 traditions had been done, they were done in 1936 it's interesting these time frames by the way. The little red book was published in 1937 1936 the 12 conditions were done in 1935 but had to be ratified by the rest of our fellowship someone said to Bill, Bill why don't you write some essays on the steps and include them with the traditions and he very quickly responded not on your life because he already been through hell writing the big book he'd already been accused of making it writing it just for money just like they do a lot of people it's like oh my god I get accused of taking money off this workshop that's never going to stop that's just our nature he did not want to go through that again he went to Father Ed Dowling who was his spiritual sponsor because every tea bill sponsor was drinking again so Father Ed Dowling was acting as Bill Wilson's spiritual sponsor Reverend Saif Shoemaker was acting as his spiritual advisor Father Ed Dowling says I can help you with that Bill and it's the first time someone voiced to Bill Wilson that he thought he knew what was wrong with him now if that would have been another alcoholic Bill might have said yeah yeah yeah move along I'm the co-founder what do you know what did you found Bob but instead it was Father Ed Dowling the man he trusted Father Ed Dalling the Jesuit priest I'm paraphrasing he says to Bill Bill I know what's wrong with you I think I know What's Wrong With You and he immediately had Bill's attention because he respected him and Father Ed Darling has been along the whole time watching us you know it's interesting how obvious we are Father Adonai says I know exactly what's wrong with you Bill and he says and I can tell you how you can work your way out of it and that got my interest does it have yours? isn't that something I thought okay I'm on to something here I was like a fish on a hook and someone hit the drag line and let me run I want to know more well that's exactly what the rest of this workshop is about it's about what Bill Wilson did with Father Ed Dowling I'll brief you on it now Father Ed dowling says I'll tell you what Bill I know what's wrong with you he says you are stricken with faulty emotional dependencies on people, places and things for your feelings of self satisfaction approval, worthiness safety and protection and unless you break those dependencies at depth I think you're going to drink again and for you to drink is to die now is that not powerful now let me read you something that he wrote in 1958 I have not edited this at all this is an article how many of you read the article in the 1958 grapevine The Next Frontier Emotional Sobriety I want to read it to you and then we'll take a short break after a couple more comments says I think that many oldsters this is funny because we're only 23 years old, I think the many oldsters who have put our AA booze cure to severe but successful tests still find they often lack emotional sobriety there's a thing going on in the US I don't know about over here, but people are poo-pooing the idea of emotional sobrietics he's got nothing to do with AA and yet our co-founder this is our co founder it's not Wayne Butler because there's people in the US trying to demonize this workshop but that's Wayne Butler no it's Not let me start over I think that many ulcers who have put our AA booth cured to severe but successful tests still find they often lack emotional sobriety perhaps they will be the spearhead for the next major development in AA the development of much more real maturity and balance which is to say humility in our relations with ourselves with our fellows and with God so what it really means is to develop real maturity and balance and humility in our relations with our selves and how many of us have a really good relationship with ourselves mine's narcissistic at best my pastor said you're narcissistically incestuous is what you are which means no matter how hard I work I continually screw myself okay those adolescent urges that so many of us have for top approval perfect security and perfect romance any other perfectionists in the room urge is quite appropriate to age 17 proved to be an impossible way of life when we are age 47 or 57 how many of us relate to that And, oh my God, I've been told to grow up so many times last year. Okay, since AA began. Oh yeah, me too. I'm glad you're not 30 yet. Since AA began, I have taken immense wallops in all these areas because of my failure to grow up emotionally and spiritually. my God, how painful it is to keep demanding the impossible. And how very painful to discover finally that all along we have had the cart before the horse. And I want you to know that was painful for me. Then comes the final agony of seeing how awfully wrong we have been. How many of us are quick to say, I'm wrong? I'm not wrong. No hands. Seeing how awfully long we have Been but still finding ourselves unable to get off the emotional merry-go-round. How do we stop? There's no breaks. How to translate a right mental conviction, which many of us have mental and emotional convictions galore. How to translated a right metal conviction into a right emotional result and so into easy, happy, and good living. Well, that's not only the neurotics problem. Uh-oh, he's talking about it. It's the problem of life itself for all of us who have got to the point of real willingness to hold to right principles in all our affairs. By the way, this is going to be the meat of our work in Steps 10, 11, and 12. This is just the right time to read this, I think, don't you? Even then as we hoe away, peace and joy may still elude us. Don't raise your hand, but I can testify to that. That's the place so many of us oldsters have come to. And it's a hell of a spot, literally. how shall our unconscious think about that our unconscious from which so many of our fears compulsions and phony aspirations still stream this is a man who co-founded AA who's 23 years sober who's writing this I guess that makes it ok for me to admit it too doesn't it be brought into line with what we actually believe no one won how to convince our dumb raging and hidden Mr. Hyde becomes our main task I've recently come to believe that this can be achieved this by the way he began writing this in 1956 it was published in 1958 he didn't know he was out of his depression when he wrote this bytheway we're always the last to know aren't we I've recently come to believe that this can be achieved see he hadn't believed it was achieved yet he'd just come to believe that it could be I believe so because I begin to see many benighted ones, folks like you and me, commencing to get results. Last autumn several years back 1946 to be exact depression having no real really rational cause at all. Think about that. Having no really rational cause. Almost took me to the cleaners. Anybody else in the room had depression that it just didn't make sense? It's just hard to get up. I mean, my bed looks so cozy about 20 hours a day. I began to be scared that I was in for another long chronic spell. Considering the grief I've had with depressions, it wasn't a bright prospect. I kept asking myself, why can't the 12 steps work to release depression? By the hour I stared at the St. Francis Fair. Okay, we're going to stop there with that because the rest of it applies to steps 10, 11 and 12. Do you get the point? that made it very clear to me that the idea of emotional sobriety was credible in AA, qualified by our co-founder, and the fact that he recovered from it without medication was appealing to me. Because I thought, what am I doing? There's something I'm not doing. And you know what I found out? It's not something I don't do. It's something that I'm not doing at all. It's Something I Don't Know. It's Like if I don't know I have cancer and I think I have diabetes so I go ask for treatment for diabetes and they give good Joe and they give me insulin I know this is cheesy but will that actually treat the cancer I mean there's a certain formula that I discovered in my own life that led me to a point in my life where I no longer had to seek professional help for my problems that I came to believe that I suffered from the same problem that Bill suffered from and I never got to meet the man this is all from his history I thought oh my god, that's me I related to the same cycle he had now where am I at here okay I had no idea until then when all this came together I returned home I'll tell you about that I returned Home after 8 months and I suppose your office filing boxes were probably the same size as ours basically I returned Homes with over 12 full boxes of papers and notes that I took and I didn't even know what I had but at least I had hope and on the top of the box was that one letter I didn't let it out of my sight that was my antidepressant I'll tell you right now I took it back home my sponsor directed me not to go to AA meetings and start talking about it because he labeled me a lunatic and I thought well they already had I followed his direction and for the next year and a half I sifted through those notes and it's unbelievable what I found It's unbelievable. Bill Wilson, from 1946 to 1950, reworked the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous with Father Ed Dowling. Now, how many of you heard Bill Wilson wrote the essays in the 12 and 12? That he wrote it. And he wrote them while he was depressed. Well, that would have been true had he wrote him. Here's something that's interesting. Father Ed Dowing worked the steps with Bill. Father Ed. Bill W., not the other way around. And as Father Ed worked step one with Bill, he took notes about Bill's reactions. He worked step two with Bill W and took notes about his reactions. He worked steps three, four, and five with Bill W related to his false emotional dependency. And by the time he got done with all 12 steps with Father Ed Dowling, Father Ed Dowling had a stack of notes that he had written about his observation with Bill W and is it fair to say that Father Ed Downing had no personal agenda on how it came out Father Ed Dalling was an objective observer he just took these notes and then Bill Wilson took these collected notes that Father Ed Doubling had wrote and then he edited them into our language now does that give it credibility it sure did to me I thought because if Bill would have wrote them I could have said he wrote those while he was depressed how accurate can they be but because Father Ed Dowling took those notes with no agenda except to what be helpful and when it got all done 1950's on us Dr. Bob is terminally ill Dr.Bob didn't like the fact that those essays were being written I'm just going to be quite frank with you matter of fact Dr.Bob told Bill not to do it he said Bill keep it simple you know there's a lot of people use the term keep it simply so they don't got to do nothing keep it symbol doesn't mean don't do nothing keep it single means do it all just be simplistic about it and where was I going with that I lost my train of thought thank you Dr. Bob wrote that final admonition Bill, don't louse this thing up with a bunch of Freudian complexes because you see Dr. Bob saw the 12-step essays as Freudian. Now there's a reason for that. I'm going to share that with you after the break because I'm not demonizing Dr.Bob. Oh my God, my brother would be drunk right now if it probably wasn't for Dr.Bob because he relates to him. He doesn't relate to me. I'll go more into that in the next session. Where was I going again? That he wanted to stop the writing of the 12 steps. And then Dr. Bob died And I don't know about the timing I don' t want to go off on that That's a slippery slope But because Dr.Bob died It opened the door for Bill to finish Because he wasn' t about to go up against Dr.Bob And I'll tell you The rest of the history Of what happened between 1950 and 1955 That freed Bill But that has to do with The next session And the one Saturday morning he was done with the steps in late 1949 early 50 the 12 and 12 was published in 1952 and 1953 and then some things happened in 1955 and Bill's depression lifted in 1956 never returned that is evidence that is what do they call that what's that word that's empirical thank you she's the brainiac I'm the short bus guy that's empirical evidence and I didn't know that word but I knew that meant it was qualified and I just didn't want to ladies and gentlemen I didn'y want to suffer like that no more I was being told I'm not alcoholic by people in AA and I din't understand why they would tell me that well it's because they don't have it they're not like that and I did'n understand what that meant until I did more study read more of that stuff that I had compiled and by the time I got done I discovered something that I'm happy to report gave me a new perception helped me understand that there's two different types of alcoholic in AA and Bill Wilson himself said it I'm going to put this up before we go to break I also found this at the same time here's something else I found and I didn't know what it was until a couple months later in 1944 I didn't find this until after I found that letter in 1944 in the New York State Journal of Medicine that's why I'm trying to give you as much data as I can in case you might be suspicious I'm making this up in 1944 in the NYSJM an article was published by Bill Wilson that must have been credible or it wouldn't have been put in there and if it was not credible they'd have had to have taken it out. Yes? Is that a fair statement? Because they don't let stuff stay in there that's been proven to be wrong. It's like our big book. If science can ever prove that anything is wrong with the doctor's opinion, we will have to change that, won't we? Or be discredited. Therefore, nothing's been disproved, has it? There's a lot of theories floating around out there about what alcoholism is, but none of them are credible enough to cause us to have to change our big books. rather than be discredited at the scientific level. I think that's impressive, if you ask me, because I'm not an expert. 1944. The Medical Society, the APA, what became the APА, American Psychiatric Association, asked Bill Wilson this question. Bill, of your fellowship of men and women, because we actually, they let girls in by then, chauvinist pigs. of your fellowship of men and women, had they not been drinkers, how would they have appeared in ordinary life in your opinion? He didn't hesitate. He said 50% would have appeared in ordinary light to be normal in every regard. Mentally, emotionally, physically, sexually, financially, psychologically normal. Except for one thing. Except for the effect produced by alcohol. The other 50%, which is my club, would have appeared to be in ordinary life more or less... Now you've known me about an hour. Which one do you think I fall on? More or less. I'm 31 years over. More or less pronounced neurotic. I did some research to find out why he had to add pronounced just to rub it in. Pronounced, why didn't he just say more or less neurotic? Why did he have to go get personal? More or Less Pronounced Neurotic. What he means by pronounced is, is if I wouldn't talk, you'd never know. And if I just sat in my chair, you'd ever figure it out. It's when I open my mouth, as soon as I start talking, you know? Because pronounced neurotic people have all kinds of interesting ways of discussion. We're going to talk about that because that's how I can spot him in AA in a second because I got it. See, you can't spot it if you ain't got it or didn't have it at some point in your life. There's no way of spotting it. It's like these cars you got over here in Europe, them real narrow butt ones. I noticed a different kind of a taxi I would have never noticed before. And once I noticed that one, I noticed all of them like that. And before I bought a Cadillac, I never noticed any Cadillacs on the road. Now, I notice all the Cadillcs like mine. Does anybody identify with that in their own regard? so I can spot a neurotic a mile away and this room is full no offense pronounce neurotic in other words in my actions and in my persona I appear more or less pronounced neurotic 50% are like that and 50% are not like that at all except for when they're drinking and that's something very interesting about that let's take a 10 minute break