Deep and Effective Spiritual Experiences – Big Book Workshop – Eufaula, AL – Part 2 of 11 – Jim P.

I love being in charge. I am not in charge I am NOT in charge oh she needs to get off that phone all right the reason I stopped where I did was because Bill's been talking about the problem all the way up to here and he's been talking about what we're going to have to do and and this chapter is called there is a solution and on top of page 25 i'm going to read a couple paragraphs and it's the program of action in these couple of paragraphs it's steps four through nine there is solution almost none of us like the self-searching the leveling of our pride the confessions of our shortcoming which the process requires for a successful consummation, okay? The self-searching, four. Leveling of our pride, that's one, three. Confessions of shortcomings, five, six, seven, eight, and nine. But we saw that it really worked in others and we come to believe the hopelessness and futility of life as we've been living it. When therefore we were approached by those in whom the problem had been solved, problem had being solved, there is nothing left for us but to pick up the simple kit of spiritual tools laid at our feet. We have found much of heaven and we have been rocketed into a fourth dimension of existence of which we had not even dreamed. The fourth dimension of existence I am told is time. There are three dimensions and the fourth dimension is time." It goes on to say, remember on the other page I talked about when they either have squiggly lines, snowflakes or say facts. It says, the great fact is just this and nothing less. That we have had, this is what they're telling you, that we have Had Deep and Effective Spiritual Experiences. Asterisk, so we stop right there and we look down, it says Fully Explained, Appendix 2. We're going to go there in a minute. Because when you see an asterisk and it says Fully Explained on Appendrix 2, they're wanting you to go read that. They're wanting You to Go Read That. Bill's already described, and he'll describe it later on about the great white light feeling like he's on a mountaintop the spiritual experience he had when he was at the hospital. And it says the deep and effective spiritual experiences which have revolutionized our whole attitude towards life towards our fellows and towards God's universe. The central fact of our lives today is the absolute certainty absolute certainty that our creator has entered into our hearts and lives in a way which is indeed miraculous. He has commenced to accomplish those things for us which we could never do by ourselves, all right? So that right there is telling me that there is a solution, that what the solution is, is that what these people have is a deep and effective spiritual experience. And it goes on to say, if you are seriously as alcoholic as we were, we believe there is no middle-of-the-road solution. What happens when you stand in the middle of the road? You get run over. Okay. We're in a position where life is becoming impossible and if we pass into the region from which there is no return through human aid, if we passed into the reason from which they are no return through human aide, we have but two alternatives. One was to go on to the bitter end blotting out the consciousness of our intolerable situation as best we could and the other was to accept spiritual help. Alright One or the other There's not a A C There's door A There's a door B You drink and die Or you accept spiritual help Okay Were you in here when I said We're going to get to that in a minute This we did on the next page 26 This we didn't Because we always wanted to We were willing to make the effort, all right? Now, the next part of this page I went over during the history section is when Roland H. from the Northeast State, very rich man, went over to Switzerland and spent a year with Carl Young, Dr. Carl Young. And Dr. Karl Young treated him as best he could, and he stayed sober for that entire year. By the time he got towards getting back to the boat in England to come home, he was drunk. and he went back to Dr. Young and so it says on the second paragraph down there so when he returned to the doctor to whom he admired and asked him point blank why he could not recover he wished above all things to regain self-control he seemed quite rational and well balanced with respect to other problems yet he had no control whatever over alcohol why was this? and the doctor pretty much gives him a doom and gloom he says he's utterly hopeless he'll never regain his position in society and he's going to place himself under lock and key or hire a bodyguard to keep him away from alcohol and that was the great physician's opinion Dr. Young but today Roland was a free man and he still is he was one of the two that went to 12 step when Ebi was getting ready to go to jail so Roland got something and what he got was on the next page it says right there some of our alcoholic readers may think they can do without spiritual help let us tell you the rest of the conversation our friend had with the doctor the doctor said you have the mind of a chronic alcoholic I've never seen one single case recover where that state of mind existed to the extent that it does in you our friend felt as though the gates of hell had closed in on him with a clang he said to the doctor is there no exception now Dr. Young is studying a different type of psychology, psychiatry over in Switzerland. One of the three famous doctors. Dr. Silkworth is studying alcoholism and alcoholics in the real hospital. Real drunks. Not rich drunks who Young's talking to. Okay? So when he says, Is there no exception? Young has the answer. Dr. silkworth didn't have the answer He had what the problem was and the obsession and the allergy. Okay? But he didn't know what the answer is. Young had the answer. It took Bill being able to put all three of them together to get the solution. Yes, the doctor replied, there is. Exceptions to cases such as yours have been occurring since early times. Here and there, once in a while, alcoholics who've had what are called vital, vital, that's life-giving, spiritual experiences. To me, these occurrences are phenomenon. You know what phenomenon means? You can't explain it. It's unexplainable. You know, it just happens. They appear to be in the nature of huge emotional displacements and rearrangements. Ideas, emotions, and attitudes which were once the guiding force of the lives of the men are suddenly cast to one side and a completely new set of conceptions and motives begin to dominate them. In fact, I've been trying to produce some emotional rearrangement within you. With many individuals, the methods which I employed are successful but I have never been successful with an alcoholic of your description. there's another snowflake another asterisk and it says this is two pages later for amplification see appendix 2 so the first time it says fully explain appendix 3 now it's saying for amplificación see appendex 2 so why don't we do like Catherine said and why don' t we turn back to where it is in the back of the book and where itis in thebackofthebook is on page 567 all right and we're going to read this entire thing because this was put in in the second edition all right in the first edition i told you before the doctor's opinion started on page one in the 2nd edition they moved a non-alcoholic the doctor to the roman numerals and started the book with an alcoholic bill story on page 1 all that time between 39 when the book was printed and 55 when the second edition was printed, I believe. People were thinking they had to have this bright white light experience for them to get this program. And Bill realized by reading this book that we're going to talk about that wasn't necessarily the case. As a matter of fact, most people did not have a bright white life experience. Spiritual experience. The terms spiritual experience and spiritual awakening are used many times in this book, which upon careful reading shows that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism has manifested itself among us in many different forms. Yet it is true that our first printing gave many readers the impression that these personality changes or religious experiences must have been the nature of a sudden and spectacular upheaval. Happily for everyone, this conclusion is erroneous. In the first few chapters, a number of sudden revolutionary changes are described. Though it was not our intention to create such an impression, many alcoholics have nevertheless concluded that in order to recover they must acquire an immediate and overwhelming God consciousness followed at once by a vast change in feeling and outlook. Among our rapidly growing membership of thousands of alcoholics such transformations though frequent okay, they're not rare they're frequent but they're NOT all the time are by no means the rule. Most of our experience are what the psychologist William James calls the educational variety because they developed slowly over a period of time. I did not have a bright white light experience. I came to believe by doing this program, implementing these steps into my life, I came TO BELIEVE that this power was there. I came To BELieve in the spiritual awakening in my life and when I got to step 12, I knew I had had a spiritual experience. So mine was the educational variety. and that comes from the book Varieties of Religious Experience Varieties or Religious Experience I think that's what it's called I'm hoping that's what it is quite often friends of a newcomer are aware of the differences long before he is himself and this has happened many times to me I don't know if it's happened to you Has anybody ever come up to you when you're in the program, you're doing the program and say, God, you look so much better today? I've had somebody close to me come up and say I can't even get you to fight no more. Yeah. Before I even knew it myself, people were coming up to me and saying, man, you're really changing. And I was like, am I? My actions were changing and I wasn't even aware of them. Alright? He finally realizes that he has undergone a profound alteration in his reaction to life. That such a change, again, change, change, chance, change five times on that one page could hardly have been brought about by himself alone. What often takes place in a few months could seldom have been accomplished by years of self-discipline. Alright? So what they're saying is once they develop even an educational variety once this is developed what often takes places in a couple of months We couldn't do with years of self-discipline. I couldn't discipline myself at all, but some people could try, but it would take years and they still didn't get this spiritual experience. With few exceptions, our members find that they have tapped an unsuspected inner resource which they presently identify with their own conception of a power greater than themselves. Most of us think this awareness of a power greater than ourselves is the essence of a spiritual experience. Our more religious members call it God Consciousness. And this last little bit here is really important. Most emphatically, we wish to say that any alcoholic capable of honestly facing his problems in the light of our experience can recover provided he does not close his mind to all spiritual concepts. Okay? All spiritual concepts so I've got members of my home group who are Buddhists I've Got members of My Home Group who are Islamics I've GOT members of MY Home Group who are Christian and I'VE GOT some that are Muslim they all believe in a different God but they all BELIEVE the same thing they all Believe that their God even though they say their God is the way they Believe in Alcoholics Anonymous that they can recover because they don't close their mind to all spiritual concepts. And I told you earlier, you can only be defeated by an attitude of intolerance or belligerent denial. Attitude of intolerant or belligrant denial. There's no way God's going to help me. And I can tell you for a fact that I really believe this truly. Had I walked into the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous with no religious experience, nothing, I wasn't raised in the church or anything else, and I walked up there and I saw Jesus. You've got to believe in Jesus. I'd have walked out of the room and I probably would have been dead by now. But these guys, back in 1939 when they wrote this, they realized they had to leave it open to my own personal understanding, my own choice of a God. I didn't want the Baptist fire and brimstone God. I didn' t want the Catholic God even though I didn''t know what the Catholic was. He had a pointed hat, I think. I'm not sure. But I can tell you this. What I wanted was a loving, forgiving, caring God. And that's who I have in my life right now. A loving, caring and forgiving God. We find that no one need have difficulty with the spirituality of the program, which is the program. Willingness, honesty and open-mindedness are the essentials of recovery. Essentials of recovery, but these are indispensable. Essentials of recoveries are things that are absolutely necessary for recovery, and indispensable means that it cannot be done without. But these things are indispensable. And then they go on to quote this guy, There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in ever-loving ignorance. and that principle is contempt prior to investigation. So I come in here with an attitude of belligerent denial and I look up there and I go, there's no way. That's contempt priortoinvestigation because I haven't even picked up the book. I've already said this program is not going to work for me. I'm already saying I'm not goingto even try and that's exactly what that is and what that keeps me is ever-loving ignorance Yeah, a lot of us have done it more than one time. All right, so we're going to jump back. That's the second time we've seen that little snowflake, which is really an asterisk. Okay. Upon hearing this, back on page 27, Our friend was somewhat relieved, for he reflected that, after all, he was a good church member. Okay, I go to church. You know, I've got a vital spiritual experience. No, you go to Church. I mean, that's what he's doing. He's going to Church He's probably a good, he is a good Church member. And then Dr. Young says, Well, this hope, however, was destroyed by the doctors telling him that while his religious convictions were very good, in his case they did not spell the necessary vital spiritual experience twice on that page he talks about vital spiritual experience, vital is life giving alright page 28 here was a terrible dilemma in which our friend found himself when he had the extraordinary experience which we have already told you made him a free man we in turn sought the same escape with all the desperation of drowning men. All right? We, in turn, in our turn, sought the sameness and the same escape with all the desperation of drowning men. You've heard me say it in here. You've heard other people say it. If you're not desperate for this program, you probably haven't had your last drink. If you have not reached the end of your rope, you probably aren't there yet. And you might take to the bitter end you don't have to but you might what seemed at first a flimsy read alright what seemed at first a flimsily read has proved the loving and powerful hand of God a new life has been given to us or if you prefer a design for living that really works the program of Alcoholics Anonymous is a design for living that really works for alcoholics that are willing to do it and it goes on to talk about who we just talked about varieties of religious experience the distinguished American psychologist William James in his book Varieties of Religious Experience indicates a multitude of ways in which men have discovered God we have no desire to convince anyone that there is only one way by which faith can be acquired if what we have learned and felt and seen means anything it all. It means that all of us, whatever our race, creed, or color, are the children of a living creator with whom we may form a relationship upon simple and understandable terms as soon as we are willing and honest enough to try. You know, that honest was real tough for me in the beginning. It was real rough, and I'm glad they took that out of the third tradition. When they first wrote the traditions, it was supposed to be an honest desire to stop drinking. Once I came to Alcoholics Anonymous, I had a desire to start drinking. I just didn't have the capability until I did something. Until I did what this book said, I didn't add the capability. Those having religious affiliations will find here nothing disturbing to their beliefs. So there's nothing being written in this book that's going to upset the monks, the Buddhists, the Hindus, the Christians. Nothing being written in this book is going to upset any of them. All right? There is no friction among us over such matters. We think it no concern of ours what religious bodies our members identify themselves with as individuals. All right, let's stop right there. We think at no concern if ours what religious body our members identified themselves with. When I work with guys and I tell them that they've got to find a power greater than themselves and we'll get to that in a couple of chapters but that's the only way that they're going to be able to get out from underneath this obsession and this compulsion is to find a God of their understanding. In the past 11 plus years I've never once asked them what's your God? I've Never Once Asked Them Have I bumped into them in a church occasionally? Yeah. Do I ask them, do they go to church? No. Because this is my church. AA is my Church. So this is where I come for my spiritual relief. I have gone to some churches just to see what they're like. They're interesting. I like them. I love it when the pastor's up there talking about AA and he doesn't know it. There are a lot of sermons that come out that way. But the next sentence tells me why I don't ask them. It says this should be an entirely personal affair which each one decides for himself in the light of his past association or his present choice. I had no past associations so I had to choose a God of my understanding. One couldn't be forced on me. I just wouldn't have taken it. Not all of us join religious bodies but most of us favor such memberships. Because I don't go to church all the time does not mean I don' t like church. it doesn't mean that at all. Or that I have something against religious bodies. I do not. You know, I think they're great. But if churches turned out sober members of alcoholics, wouldn't everybody coming out of church be sober? You know how many thousands of priests, nuns, pastors are in Alcoholics Anonymous to find spirituality? Thousands. Thousands. In the following chapter, there appears an explanation of alcoholism as we understand it. Then a chapter addressed to the agnostic. Many who were once in this class are now among our members. Surprisingly enough, we find such convictions no great obstacle to spiritual experience. Further on, and here it is again. I talked about a couple of different things And here's one of them. Further on, clear-cut directions are given showing how we recovered. All right. That is, I'm going to stop counting at this one, but that's the six times they've used the word recovered from the title page to page 29. Clear-cut direction. They're not going to give you general directions. They're Not Going To Give You, well, maybe do this way, maybe do that way. They're going to Give You Clear-Cut Directions on how to work these steps into your life to get that vital spiritual experience and then what you need to do with that. Each individual in their personal stories These are followed by 42 personal experiences. Each individual in their own personal stories describes in his own language and from his own point of view the way he establishes his relationship with God. He'd give a fair cross-section of our membership and a clear-cut idea on what has actually happened in their lives. Now, in the forwards that we went through in the very beginning a couple weeks ago, each time they wrote a new book, they changed some stories in the back of the book. I wasn't there, and I'm always told if I wasn'T there, then I can't say it's true. But from the first edition to the second edition, some of the first stories in the back of the book those people got drunk then the second edition to the third edition they wanted to bring stories a little more up to date to include a wider variety of people and now I'm looking at all the good looking women in the room saying that's what they were doing they were trying to encourage that women were alcoholics I don't know if y'all were here when I talked about Dr. Bob really didn't want women in Alcoholics Anonymous he was scared to death he didn't think women were alcoholics they just maybe drank too much but he was scared to death to let women come into Alcoholics Anonymous because he was afraid that number one they were going to be disruptive in the room the men were goingto be staring at the women and number two the wives of the men that were there at the time wouldn't bring their men back if there were hookers or fallen women or drunk women in the row and so he was almost adamantly opposed to it and for a while like I said Ann and Lois and some of the women of the first 40 or 50 were the ones that were carrying the message to the women alcoholics until they actually were allowed to come in and get sober and as soon as they got sober I use the example of Lady Marty Mann up in New York as soon As she demanded to be able to be led into Bill's group and she got sober and stayed sober every woman that came in for the next 18 months she was the sponsor so she sponsored She was the first woman for 18 months up there in that one. And it goes on to say, and a lot of people tell me, you know, they're just stories in the back of the book. And you all know that my sponsor and I host a website that's got 25,000 plus speakers on it. Each one of those stories is a speaker in print. Each one does the same thing almost all the speakers do. They share their experience, strength, and hope, and they all talk about how they found their way to the God of their understanding. So there are much more than just stories in the back of the book. I don't encourage my guys to read those stories in the Back of the Book until we get to certain points in the book, okay? There's a story about acceptance is the key. I do want that read before I'm through the 12 steps because somewhere along the line acceptance is going to have to be put into your life and it's usually right about the third step. but I don't want to say you know don't read the stories I just want to say do the steps first and then read how other people found their way to God what's your website I'll give you a card after the meeting um and it says each individual personal story describes in their own language from their own point of view the way he established his relationship with God his or her these give a fair cross section of our membership and a clear cut idea of what actually happened in their lives we hope that no one will consider these self-revealing accounts and bad taste our hope is that many alcoholic men and women desperately in need will see these pages and believe that only by fully disclosing disclosing ourselves and our problems that they will be persuaded to say yes i am one of them too i must have that thing remember this book was being mailed out there was only three meetings one in cleveland one in akron one in new york and so when the saturday evening post came around when the cleveland dealer um cleveland i guess it was called cleveland dealer i ran some articles they got flooded with requests for the book and so they were mailing the book all over the country and people were reading the book implementing the 12 steps into their life getting a vital spiritual experience and they were being recovered without meetings without the fellowship you know the book came first the fellowship was there but the book really set the fellowship on fire the fellowship was Cleveland New York Akron but once the word got out then the program really took off and the book was the original 12-step call. I've said that before. That's originally what the 12-stepp call was, was mailing this $3.50 big book. I'm going to go ahead and start on more about alcoholism in Chapter 3. And I'm not going to get very far into it. I told you before we might end a little bit early, we might be a little late. but I wanted to get to this right here if I was to ask you what is the first step of alcoholics and ominous, what's the first step? I'm powerless over alcohol my life's unmanageable, no that's step one, there's a difference between the first steps in recovery and step one, those are all condensations they're all just smaller of what the wider picture is more about alcoholism most of us have been unwilling to admit we are real alcoholics no person likes to think that he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows therefore it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove that we can drink like other people now I never did that I never tried to quit drinking until I came to Alcoholics Anonymous so these people are talking about They tried countless vain attempts before they ever got this book or before they even went to one of the meetings that were getting started. The first meetings were the Oxford Group, and then they moved into the Alcoholics Anonymous name, and that's when the book really took off. The idea that somehow, someday, he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of a very abnormal drinker. To be able to control my drinking if I try to control my drinking because I did during that three and a half period I was in and out I tried to control my drinking when I poured that drink the only thing I could think about when I was looking at that drink and taking that first drink was the second drink I was miserable trying to control my drinking alright and if I drank and got drunk which I did every time and passed out I was no longer enjoying it so I was trying to control and enjoy and I couldn't do it I mean there might have been a time in my life where I enjoyed drinking and it was fun and it did something for me and then I found out what it did to me ok the persistence of this illusion is astonishing many pursue it until the gates of insanity or death Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death. It's a deadly disease. We're on page 30, and we've already read 30 pages and the doctor's opinion. And you know what? You're about to find out where the first step of recovery is. We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholic. This is the first steps in recovery. to fully concede to our innermost self that we are alcoholic. The delusion that we are like other people or presently maybe has to be smashed. And I have been taught that smashed is to be broke beyond all repair. It has to быть smashed. The thought that I can drink like normal people I never drank like normal people. How do I even think like I can drunk like that? There's no way. we alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking we know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control all of us have felt at times that we were gaining control I never felt that but these people did but such intervals usually brief were invariably followed by still less control which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization we are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grips of a progressive illness over any considerable period we get worse never better and I use my brother again on that not drinking for over a year picking up a glass of wine at lunch wanting a bottle that afternoon three weeks later he's dead okay we are in a grip of a aggressive illness we are like men who've lost their legs they never grow new ones neither does there appear to be any kind of treatment which will make alcoholics of our kind like other men we've tried every manageable remedy in some instances there's been brief recovery brief recovery followed always by a still worse relapse physicians who are familiar with alcoholism agree there's no such thing as making a normal drinker out of an alcoholic science may one day accomplish this but it hasn't done so yet that's in 1939 and right now in 2013 science has not done it yet now I hear about this guy who's got this pill in California that will make you never want to drink again I don't know what it is I don' t believe it and you know what if they came up with something today that said here's a pill you're now able to drink a couple of drinks and you won't want any more you know you know what I would say I'm not trading this way of life for anything I'm NOT giving away anything for what I've got right now. What they got in your drive is $50,000 that costs you for six weeks. Yeah, well, yeah. Yeah. Go to Betty Ford and spend $20,000 to come out and get a big book for $850 and then you get sober. It's Anabuse, actually. Yeah. Anabusia. Yeah, Anabu... I know people who drink on Anabuses. All you gotta do is take a bunch of vitamins. Yeah. Don't tell me about Anabusing. I've seen what Anabuser does to people. I mean, their face gets so bright red and they blow it up and they die. Drink it on anti-abuse, you can very well die. That's right. Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they're in that class. I didn't at first. By every form of self-deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore non-alcoholic. Mine was just ego. That's all mine was. If anyone who's shown the inability to control his drinking can do the right about face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to them. That's a heavy drinker. That's somebody who has a sufficiently good reason to quit drinking. That's not an alcoholic. Heaven knows we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people. Now it goes on to give us some of the ways and in all honesty I can look at this and say I didn't do any of it, okay? But here are some of the methods that they have tried. Drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, I always drink alone, never drinking in the morning, I started drinking in morning at the end, drinking only at home, it wasn't me, never having it in the house, that definitely wasn't mean, never drinking during business hours, I didn t for many years until late stage alcoholism and then I was drinking at lunch and then not going back to the office and then going to get drunk and going home. I had that type of job. In real estate, you don't have business hours. You have to be there. And so I had a job that was perfect for an alcoholic. I could drink and not show up. And I drink and don't show up and guess what happens? I don't make any money. I don' t make any money at all. Drinking only at parties well talking to somebody before you know on the way to the party I would be drinking at home before I got to the part because I didn't want to be drunk at the party and then when I started drinking at the part I was already drunk when I got there I got really drunk and then when I left the party it was a big fight on the day on the road on the home with the wife and so I drank until I passed out when I get home that's just me that's not everybody switching from scotch to brandy I don't think so drinking only natural wines don't know what they are agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, well never did that taking a trip, not taking a trip, I thought that was about LSD at first but it's not, it's about geographical change swearing off forever with and without a solemn oath, now I told you last week that twice Bill wrote a solemn oath in the family bible, I said I'm never going to do this again Lois I'm writing it in the Bible, hand on the Bible. And in a short period of time he was drunk. Taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitments to asylum. We can increase the list ad infinitum, meaning just a few. Yeah, you're just going to increase it. And then they go on to say that they don't want to tell me I'm an alcoholic. They don't want to tell anybody because I have to concede to my innermost self if I'm going to recover. That's the first step of recovery. So it goes on to say we don't wanna pronounce any individual an alcoholic but you, me can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest bar room and try some controlled drinking. Tried it, hated it, got drunk. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Sure. Okay. Try it. Yeah. Okay. I'm not encouraging anybody to try this This is the book I'm reading, okay? It's not a loophole. Try it more than once. You know, I did. And it won't take long for you to decide if you're honest with yourself about it. There's that word, honest with your self. Concede to my innermost self. It may be worth the case of bad jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition. It may not be worth the case as a bad jitter. If you've already had enough, You don't need to go out and try some more. But this is what I'm telling you, is that when they sent the book out, they just sent it out and hoped that people would read this and if they didn't really think they were an alcoholic, then they were telling them, all right, go try this. Go try this and see if this works. And if you're a real alcoholic, then you're going to come back and you're gonna say, I can't control and enjoy my drinking. Okay? Though there's no way of proving it, we believe that early in our drinking careers, most of us could have stopped drinking. I don't know if I could have stopped drinking once I started drinking because all I thought about was drinking I just all I though about was drink so I don' t think I could of stopped if there had been an intervention if somebody had said you know you are going to jail all the time because you are drinking and you need to go to treatment maybe maybe that's a big maybe and that's in the past and I can't change maybes or in the pass ok but the difficulty is that few alcoholics have enough desire to stop while there is yet time we have heard of a few instances where people who showed definite signs of alcoholism were able to stop for a long period because of an overpowering desire to do so and they're getting ready to go into the story of a guy who quit drinking for a Long Period of Time and And he wound up dead. So what we're going to do is I am going to stop the meeting right here, and we're gonna pick up not next week, but the week after on page 32, and we'RE gonna start with a man of 30. So that's where we're Gonna be in the book.