Deb H. at the Emotional Sobriety Conference – 2020

Thanks, Mike. Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Beth and I am an alcoholic. My sobriety date is July 19th, 1989. And for that, I am eternally grateful. I am honored and privileged to be able to introduce the next speaker. I heard her in Cocoa Beach, Florida some years back and she touched my soul. She reached in, she grabbed it and my ears popped out of my head. and I was so ready to start this journey all over again as we seldom do with multiple years of recovery. Deb has asked me to read this on step four in the 12 and 12 on page 42. Yet these instincts so necessary for our existence often far exceed their proper functions. powerfully blindly many times suddenly they drive drive us dominate us and insist upon ruling our lives our desires for sex for material and emotional security and for an important place in our society often tyrannize us when thus out of joint man's natural desires cause him great trouble. Practically all the trouble there is. No human being, however good, is exempt from these troubles. Nearly every serious emotional problem can be seen as a case of misdirected instinct. When that happens, our great natural assets, the instincts have turned into physical and mental liabilities. And with that, I give you Deb H. from Akron, Ohio. Hey, Beth. Thank you. Hey, guys. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for that introduction. That was very sweet and very kind. My name is Deb. I'm a real alcoholic. I'm the kind of alcoholic that is described in the doctor's opinion in the very front of the big book. I am the kind of alcoholic when I start drinking, there is no reasonable way to predict when or if i'm going to stop and what it's going to look like from the first drink to the last drink um i you know the phenomena craving is is is what allowed me when i came to alcoholics anonymous to come all the way in and just sit all theway down because that was that was the part of the description of alcoholism that unites all of us And I'm so grateful that the old people who had to adopt me because I wouldn't go away, that those old people, they surrounded me and they took me to the donut shop after the meeting and they sat down and they talked to me nonstop about what happened to them when they swallowed the first drink. And they didn't give me a long list of drunken consequences. They talked to me about, about how they felt and about the fact that they couldn't show up. And the fact that they, that they were really unpredictable and that when they started, they couldn' stop. And they really allowed me to understand what the phenomenon of craving actually is because they knew that when I walked into Alcoholics Anonymous at 15 years old, that I wasn't going to be able to relate to them based on a list of consequences of drunkenness, right? They had jobs to lose and families to lose, and cars to crash, and all of that stuff. And I didn't have those things yet. So I was going to need to know that I belong to Alcoholics Anonymous differently than just looking at a long list of Consequences of Drunkenness. And they really enabled me to understand that I have the phenomenon of craving, that it is a manifestation of an allergy that is triggered in me. And the last time that I drank, when I came to the next day, there was a voice that said, you will always drink just like this. I will always Drink to Oblivion. I will Always Drink to My Detriment. I will alway, always not be able to show up and to keep my commitments and to do the things that I really need to do. It's just going to be the case with me. So I have that kind of alcoholism. I have the kind of alcoholicism that if I choose to continue to drink, I will be face down in a mud puddle somewhere tonight, not tomorrow, not a month from now, not a year from now. That's how I was drinking when I stopped. So there is no reasonable... I cannot reasonably think that it would be any different if I drank today. Anyway, so that's the kind of alcoholic that I am, which means that when I got to Alcoholics Anonymous, not only did I have to surrender to the idea that I had alcoholism, right? Which is what I did with those old timers at the donut shop, reading through the doctor's opinion and listening to those master storytellers talk me into my own case of alcoholism. Right. Because that's what we do here. We use story so that we can open and have a dialogue with one another and deepen our understanding of what alcoholism is and what recovery from alcoholism it's. Anyway, so I had to surrender to the idea that I had alcoholism. And then in steps two and three, I had to surrender to this idea that there was a higher power that existed in this world that actually liked me, that actually had my best interest at heart, that may be powerful enough to actually be organizing my life in a way that could be successful. Right? I couldn't go all in with that power greater than myself initially, guys, right? My first trip through the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous is very, very different than the trip I took through the steps of Alcoholics Anonymous a couple of years ago when I was 31 years sober. Right? Because if we do this thing right, our experience with the steps deepen. If I do this thing right, I continue to grow in my understanding. I continue to grow and my relationship with you because my understanding of you deepens if I do This thing right. My relationship with God deepens which means that the amount of courage that I bring to it deepens. Because the thing is, in step three, which you guys just heard expertly presented, right? Touchingly presented. When I do step three I actually strike a deal with God, right. I strike a dealer and I'm like, okay, here's the deal. I'm going to go all in with you. I am going to not just believe you exist but now I'm going to have faith that you care about me and now I am not just going to believe that you exist, but I'm gonna have faith That you care About me and and now I'm actually turn over my will in my life to you So and I'm trust that you're gonna function inside the construct of my life And you're going to and you're make sure I am okay all the time time, even if I'm sad, even if I am hurt, even if I m grieving, even if I a m in loss, even if I an scared, if I have the kind of relationship with God where he is allowed to be as big as he needs to be in my life, I can approach all of those circumstances no matter how I feel. And I am going to know that I am okay even when it feels big and hard and ugly. It does not mean that I'm not okay. As long as God's got me, I'm okay. And in my third step, as I've grown in my sobriety, what the third step means is that I take all my chips and I push them all in and I win every time. And it is with that attitude and that relationship and that orientation to my higher power that allows me to courageously look at steps four and five, right? That's the thing that allows us to look at each other. It allows me that allows to use steps four and five as a tool for my own spiritual growth. As a tool that I use so that I can stay in relationship with you. Because here's the thing, guys. I need you. I do. I've been a sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous for 33 years. I don't know how to live without you. Therefore, I have to act right, so that you'll allow me to stay in and be part of this community. And the only way I can do that is to consistently re-examine what I'm doing, where I'm coming from, what my relationship with God is, make sure that I stay all in, right? And keep a vigilant lookout for the utilization of my character defects, right? I have to. And so step four and five, right, this thing where we sit down and we actually examine, it's the stock and trade of what I've got, right. And what should be on my shelf and what shouldn't be on myself. It's that process utilized over and over and over and over as i stay sober that allows me to ensure that what i have today my saleable goods are things that you're going to want to buy and make sure that my shelves aren't stocked with things that aren't going to move and the only way i can do that right this is all connected The only way I can do that is to gain in courage and approach my step work with increasing depth as I stay sober. I am not a one and done, right? I know people in Alcoholics Anonymous who've been sober a good long time. And they said, you know, I worked the steps one time when I was X amount of months sober or X amount a year sober. and i don't ever have to do it again because step 10 exists and i use it and i'm like well good on you i am just not that diligent with my 10 step right i am from time to time i'm gonna need to go back and start at the beginning and i'M GONNA NEED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE FLOW OF THE SPIRITUAL TOOLS IN AND OUT OF MY I'M JUST GONNNA HAVE TO DO THAT EVERY NOW AND THEN AND SO WHAT I'VE STARTED doing over the years is every time I sponsor someone new and I take them through the steps, I work the steps along with that. That way, not only do I get a new experience with the steps because someone brand new is coming to them, but I get to stay in this constant renewal as well. And it's been pretty cool the last two weeks. So I have a brand new girl and she's lovely. she's in her 20s she's never been an alcoholics anonymous before you know how it is when you get someone who is brand new to alcoholics synonymous and they have not been in and out for years so they haven't built up a tolerance to the beauty that is alcoholics unanimous right like she everything that i say out loud she thinks it's brilliant so she's really nice to have around right every time i say something she's like oh my god oh how do you know that i'm like well you know like she doesn't know that you all say that too because she hasn't been around long enough right to know that that's just part of how we communicate with one another right she still thinks that the fact that if you don't drink you won't get drunk right if you Don't Start You Want I mean she thinks that that stuff's brilliant and I just and it just brings joy to my heart right to see to see that that initial experience with the beauty that is alcoholics and out of us and so two weeks ago um she came over to my place and we did a socially distanced fifth step it was really hard not to hug her but we did socially distenced fifth step and um and the neat thing is that as she was writing her fourth step she would call me from time to time and she And she would ask me very specific questions about what she was writing down. And so we stayed in this constant communication. And so when it got to be the time for her to actually share her fifth step with me, I already knew a lot of what was on her list from the fourth step. And because we were able to stay in that kind of relationship with one another, the fifth step wasn't this huge, looming, ugly thing that was going to happen to her, right? It was just going to be her getting to share with me everything that we hadn't already talked about and look at it in this flow. You know, it was a long time, guys. The first time that I walked through and did a fourth and fifth step, right? I was just – it was just about getting it done. It was juste about, you know, following the chart that was in the big book and getting it all written down and, like, and getting all of the ugly out there. And my first, fourth and fifth step, I took it when I was just a couple of months sober. And I did that because the people that were getting me sober, they believed that the only way I was going to stay sober is if the miracle of Alcoholics Anonymous began to play out in my life immediately. They believe so strongly in the process, the spiritual process that is what happens to us as we take the steps. They believe så strongly in that, that they thought, man, we just push people through it. We don't wait for perfect timing. We don' t wait for the fog to lift. We don´t wait for any of that. Like let´s just get you through the steps so that you can start to learn the language of Alcoholics Anonymous so that you start to have a little bit of a frame of reference for the 12 steps. So that when you're sitting in a meeting and someone talks to you about an inventory, you know what an inventory is. You know what we're talking about. And they believed that that first trip through the steps, that really the purpose of that was just to knock the edge off so you could sit still. And I'm really, really grateful that that was the approach. And so I walked through the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous very, very quickly. I was well done with them before my first year hit. I had made some amends. I had done all kinds of stuff, but that first trip through was very, very quick and it did exactly what it was intended to do. It knocked the edge off. So I could come all the way into AlcoholicsAnonymous and I could sit all the way down. I felt like I belonged here. I felt like I had done some of the heavy lifting. And what an incredible gift that was. But then at three years sober, I couldn't sit still anymore. Right? My skin didn't fit anymore. Like they're just like, I just, you know, I hit that spot where there was clearly something else I needed to be doing, but I didn't know what it was. lives. And so I got, I had another person take me through the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and I got to have a different experience, right? Because my life at that moment at three and a half years sober was not just about trying to decide whether I was going to drink or not drink. My life had become about trying, trying to act better, trying To Act Right, So that you guys would hang out with me. Right. Trying to, you know, trying to make the right decision at the right time, you know, I've always been the good enough girl. And what that means is that I've always been willing to settle for good enough rather than holding out for the best, rather than courageously seeking the best. I've always settled for good enough, right? I just need enough money to pay my bills. Heaven forbid, I should have a little extra for a pizza on the weekend, right? Just give me enough to pay mine. And then and then I'll be okay. And so and through the process of the steps, and through the process of really good sponsorship and listening to stories, I reached that point in my life where I wanted a little bit more, but I didn't know how to get there. And so I got to have this new experience of the steps at three and a half years, which showed me the next level of recovery that was available to me, the next label of healing, the last label of insight. And it wasn't until three and half years like I don't know about you, but I sat in lots of literature discussion meetings where we talked about steps four and five. And we talked about the instincts, right? It was talked about plenty. And I was sitting in the room, But I didn't hear it until I had three and a half years of sobriety. I didn'T hear it UNTIL I HAD THREE AND A HALF YEARS, RIGHT? THERE ARE JUST SOME THINGS I CAN'T HEAR IT UNTILL I HEAR IT. AND THEN WHAT I DO, I'M LIKE, OH, MY GOD, THAT'S BRILLIANT. WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? AND HEAVEN FORBID, IT WAS AVAILABLE TO ME THE ENTIRE TIME. AND SO AT THREE AND A HAL F YEARS I ACTUALLY HEARD THIS IDEA OF THE INSTINCTS AND I WAS LIKE, WELL, OKAY. So if there are really three basic instincts, and if all humans have them, then maybe the reason that we treat each other poorly is because we're trying to balance our own instincts. Right? That's what the book says. And when I heard that, I thought, oh, my God, that explains so much, not just about how I behave, but about how those around me behave. Right? It explains how people respond to me. and um anyway and so so i played with that for a little while and i walked through the 12 steps at that three and a half year mark and what it enabled me to do because i had this new insight into what drove all of us humans is it allowed me to deepen forgiveness it allowed me to give you more wiggle room in my life right my expectations of you could be adjusted so that you didn't have to treat me just right you were allowed to be as flawed as I was and it also shot me back into step two and three again right shot me right back into two and three again because i thought man if they're like there is so much more to get out of this but in order for me to deepen here i likely need to deepen there And so going back into step two and looking at the concept of God that I had. And I realized that the concept OF GOD I had was too small. And that I needed to let God grow. And I needed TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE OPEN MINDED ABOUT WHO HE WAS, WHO IT WAS AND HOW IT OR HE PARTICIPATED IN MY LIFE. Right. And so every time I go through four, I have to go back and revisit one or two and three to allow God to grow and to adjust my concept. And I'm so grateful that that's been my process, but that really is my process. Right. I cannot when I I cannot deepen for I cannot actually rely on God to balance those three basic instincts of mine. if I don't have the kind of deep trusting relationship that allows me to sit still when I'm uncomfortable and just breathe and wait on God. That is like, what an order. I can't go through with it. Right? I mean, what a freaking order. Like you mean that I am to sit still and not fix or manipulate anything just sit still and because of a deepening understanding that has come to me through four and five i am able not only to understand the role that fear plays in my life but i am able i i have i have full conscious awareness of my very favorite character defects i mean i really have some favorites right i just go snag them and i use them and next thing i know a relationship is damaged i mean and it's fascinating how fast it works right just fascinating but fears triggered i act poorly you distance from me and i have trouble hearing god that's how poor behavior plays out in my life because i hear god through you that's why four and five is important that's like four five six and seven is really important i experience god through staying in relationship with you and if i damage my relationship with it will block me from the sunlight of the spirit it will block me from from that constant energy flow that is god it just does every single time and so i go back into four and five and i do another inventory and i take a look at it and it is fascinating to me how my character defects they will go they will take a walk around the block put on a different hat a different set of sunglasses and come back at me again isn't it It's just fascinating. Like I look at that and I'm like, oh my God, are you serious? I am doing that again. Like I was sure it would have a different name, but it's not a different thing. It's not the same name. It's the same manipulative crap, right? It's so grateful that the word subtly is in here, right. Because subtly isthe key. And I don't know why my character defects pursue me the way that they do. Right. I don't know why, you know, this human condition puts me in this state where I am so vulnerable to fear, but it just does. Right. I think that that's why being human is hard. I really do. I thinkthat that'swhybeinghumanishardisbecause I'm so susceptible to not rely on God and to rely on self. I'mso susceptible to self-reliance. I really am and the moment I go for the head fake of self-reliance the moment I do that fear is triggered I start looking for a tool to manipulate and it's on right and if I'm lucky I'll catch it in a 10th step at the end of the night if I want lucky so anyway and so the three basic instincts in step four like i said when i when i went through the 12 steps the first time like it wasn't about the three basic instincts for me like i just didn't have the capacity to really understand it like that i just did um now i do right more has been revealed and here's the other thing so surrender is a process not an event right i think we can all we can alle agree with that can i see some raised hands right surrender is a practice not an effect thank you very much those of you i could the tiles I can see. Thank you for raising your hands. And so what happens for me along the years too, as I grow and as I become more and more confident in God's role in my life is that I'm able to surrender more quickly and more deeply, right? And that deepening surrender is what allows me to sit still. That deepening surrenders what allows me trust. That deepening surrender is what allows me to do simple things. Like when you ask me a question and I don't know the answer, I look at you and I say, huh, I don'T know. Right? Because I'm not afraid that you're going to think I'm stupid. I mean, it's simple stuff, right? But these are the little things that will ruin relationships, right. But I have to be willing to not have all the answers. Very simple, right? I'm afraid of how you're going to see me. Therefore, I try to always have the answer. And if you ask me and I really don't know, I'm going to try to make up an answer anyway, to influence the way you see me and why am I scared that you're gonna think I'm stupid? Well, because you know, you're not going to hang out with stupid people. And if you write and if you think I'm stupid you don't hang out with stupid people then you're going to leave my life and you're going to abandon me before you know i'm going to be all alone and if i'm all alone then i'm going to have to do what i'm gonna have to rely on god that's that and if I have to fully rely on god then what's left well I don't know is god not good enough is god Not big enough holy christmas right and i'm right back at the beginning like okay well you know Can we figure out a way to trust God, please? Because my fear triggers my character defect. Right. Which gets in the way of my relationship with you when you and I aren't connected anymore. I don't get to experience God through you when I don' t experience God through you. I become limited in my experience of him when i'm limited in my experience of him i grow apart from him things that i used to do lose their punch right i don't want to go to that meeting again and listen to that same guy say the same thing over and over andover right when last week like every time he said it i'd be like oh is he gonna say that thing again and then he does and i'm like yes you know and this week you know i've made you mad and i've gone back for the head fake and use the character defect and i'm feeling distant and apart from and all that and i just don't want to go because it's going to say that same old thing again right and i start to build up a tolerance to alcoholics anonymous i startto build up uh right i i starttoput a wall between me and the beauty why is four and five important why is it a deepening process why is why is a continual deepening surrender necessary it's necessary because i must stay vigilant against fear and the utilization of character defects so that i can stay connected to you and have an ever-deepening relationship with God. That's how this thing works. I say fairly often when I give my pitch that one of my great hopes in this life is that when someone spends time with me, my great hope is that they've actually gotten to experience some spiritual energy or some you know have an experience with God while spending time with me because I want to be unblocked and I want God to be able to flow through me to those around me I'm not that good yet by the way right every now and then. I have my days, but that's really what I want. I believe that that is being of ultimate service to my fellow. I really do. If you come to me and you bring me something, if you bring a challenge or a problem or something like that, and if I don't immediately put you in the process that puts you back in the arms of God, I have failed you. I have failed you. But if I have been giving into fear and if I have been choosing character defects and if I am distancing from the people in my life because my relationships have gotten challenging, I am more likely because I am more and more becoming more and more reliant on self. I am more likely to start looking for other solutions rather than God that's how it works for me so in step four like you know my new girl that I was talking about right she was like oh my god she's like I thought I was going to have a little bit more time before I had to write this inventory and I was like well how free do you want to be? And she said, well, I want to be free. And I was like, well then pick up a pen sister. Right. Let's get busy. And so she, you know, and so she's like, yeah, but I'm only right. Just three months sober. Do I really have to write an infant? I'm just three months over. And I'm like, Well, yeah. You know, let's get free. Let'S start cleaning this stuff up. And So, you Know, she gets done, you know with the writing and with the fifth step and And yesterday, you know, we did the we did the seven step prayer together and we were having a conversation. You know, I said, you go back into right into your fourth step writing and the notes that we made through your fifth step and take all of the names on there and put them in an easy medium and a hard category. And I explained to her what that meant. And she was like, does that mean I'm going to have to start making amends? And I was like that's kind of how this thing works. yeah you're gonna start making amends and she said well i don't like i i want to be free right because that's my one of my things like how free do you want to be how free you want me how free and she's like i wantto be free but and i was like yeah but you can't live in the butt sister right you can'T live in the butt like do we need to go back into your second step and look at your concept of god and she said the most beautiful thing she said you know when you sent me home to spend that hour and look back at everything i had done in the first five steps she said i realized that from a couple of months ago when i established that concept of god that he's already grown it's already different and the fact this was the thing i mean just almost made me cry she's not on here so i can talk about this a little bit almost made me cry she said because you were so kind and present and helpful to me through four and five and you always give all of the glory to god or your higher power she said did you know that my concept of god through that. And I was like, there you have it. I was like, did you know that in just a handful of months, you're going to have an opportunity to do that for someone else? And she was like oh my god, I just got scared again. I said I'm not going to throw you into it by yourself sister. I'm going to be there to walk with you every minute. I say but once you finish working these steps through the first time, I said you're going to understand the mechanics of it and you're going to be able to be helpful to someone else. I said, that's the way this thing works. And she said, yeah, but she said you just said that. And I got scared all over again. And I said welcome to the human experience, right? Welcome to the humane experience when fear is triggered. I have to recognize it as an opportunity to walk and to collapse into God's arms because I have to come from a place of connectedness to God if I'm going to act in spite of my fear. I have too. Anyway, so my steps four and five are very, very different today. They just are, you know, and I'm so grateful. Like I said, I'm 49 years old and i'm 33 years sober right so god willing i'm still going to have a couple of decades to dance with these steps and so the fact that they are structured in a way that allows them to be spiritual tools for me and that i am and that I am uh I am able to engage and to grow and to deepen with them means that I'm I mean goodness knows I mean like where am I going to be in another 20 years right if i get to continue to have a deepening experience with these steps right i mean so quick story so i have a sister um for those of you who've heard my pitch you've heard me talk about my sister um my sister probably three years four years ago um so she and i um have remained in relationship our entire lives right she and I we went through treatment together uh we went out and i drank and she did drugs one more time um that was my bottom i came into alcoholics anonymous sat all the way down and that was it she did not come back in um she did quit doing drugs but she's never really healed um from being raised with alcoholism and you know multiple hymns um right alan on is really really should be her jam um anyway so we've stayed in relationship and she and she calls me one day and she's just and in she had her life had been in crisis for some time and um and i just have stayed in relationship with her and just been there right i can't fix her um i can'T even talk her into fixing herself anymore right i can'T talk her in a relationship but i tried all that right i had to give all that up um And if I didn't give all that up, I was going to end up an Al-Anon myself. So, you know, I just had to detach but stay engaged in her life. And so one day she calls me and she's just bawling, like the kind of crying where you're, you know, you're like trying to catch your breath and you can't. And I said, oh, my God, sis, like what's going on? and she's and she and she was like she said i want what you have now she doesn't come here right she's not a member of our tribe so that's not her language and i said well what do i have that you want and she catches her breath again and she said i want to be fearless and I said you want to be fearless and she said yes you're fearless and I says I am and she said it looks that way and I say well how do you know and she says you walk into rooms where you don't know a soul all the time and you just look everybody in the eye and you assume people are going to like cute. She said, you just assume that you belong there. She said, do you realize that I haven't said anything out loud for years? I don't walk up and meet strangers. I don' t want to go into rooms where I know people, let alone rooms where I don''t know people. She sa d, I am tired of being terrified. She said, how do I, how do I get there? How do I become fearless? And I said, you know what? The only way I know how to get there is through the 12 steps of an alcoholic synopsis. The only way that I can get there is to have a spiritual experience. The only way I personally know how to get there, right? And this language that I now have, is to partner with God so solidly that my three-legged stool, which are the three basic instincts of life, are balanced by God, not by my manipulation. I have to trust, and I do today. You might need to check with me tomorrow, but today, I trust that I am exactly where I'm supposed to be, doing what I'm supposed to do, and connected to the people who are supposed to be in my life. I have enough of everything. Even if I have desire for something different or for something more, I have stuff of everything, I don't need to build, I don't need to do. I don't need to rest satisfaction out of life. I Don't Need To Manipulate The Way You See Me. I Don'T Need To Do Any Of That As Long As I Am Partnered With God In A Way That Allows Him To Balance My Three-Legged Stool. I DON'T Know If You'Ve Ever Tried To Sit On A Three-Legged Stool You Ever Looked At A Three Legged Stool And You'Re Like Huh? I DONT KNOW THAT I SHOULD TRUST THAT Right. Because if one leg is a little longer or a little shorter than the other two, that stool is off balance and you will not be able to sit on it comfortably. If one leg ist significantly longer or shorter thanthe other two. You will notbe able tosit on it at all. Because it will topple over. And that is the exact thing that I have learned about the three basic instincts of life, right? We all want to be somebody, have somebody and have all of our needs met. Three instincts of Life, right, be somebody have somebody and have our and have Our Basic Needs Met guys. I have never not had my basic needs met i am somebody because i belong to god i am a precious child of god and by the way i'm one of his favorites and i have the people in my life that i'm supposed to have and when i am spiritually fit I don't need anything more. I don' t desire anything more I'm not looking for anything more, right? I'm not looking at my current him and noticing the other handsome him that just walked in the door right? Because I am right where I'm supposed to be doing exactly what I'm suppose to be doing because I'm fully partnered with God and I know that I'm fully partnered avec God because I'm at peace with you. And I know that I'm fully partnered with God because you call me and you engage with me and we have an opportunity to deliver one another back into the arms of God instead of delivering one another into self-reliance. That's how I know that I'm okay. And so I've been paying particular attention to like the language that I use with people lately, right? You know how when something is going wrong, right, and people come to console us, what is the thing we say to one another? It'll be okay. It'll Be Okay. You'll Be okay. You will you'll be okay, right. That's what we say to One another. We all say that stuff. i am trying now to change the language that i use and instead of saying you're gonna be okay it'll be okay i try to say you are okay and it is okay right because that that's the language i think of god that's the language, I think, of proper balance. This idea that if I'm not joyfully happy, that somehow I'm not okay. That's got to go. Nobody's going to sit on joy every single day, 24 hours a day. I'm not going to sit on joy every single day, 24 hours a day. It's just not going to happen. But if I'm properly partnered with God and there's enough of everything and I am relying on him to show me the way, then I don't need to manipulate anything and I don'T need to wait on things to be different in order to be okay. And so, so one of the things that happened in my sobriety, so I was 22 years sober and I had finally married the right guy for the right reasons in the right order, right? Like that's pretty amazing, right, for us alcoholics, right. So I get the right guys for the right reasons and the right water and he and I marry and we join the church together so that We have a spiritual language together, right? And we are, and we're humming, right. And he is a, he's a United States Marine and he's going to war and he is out training. And so, you know, and it is just a busy, busy life. It's a busy life and what it does for me is it drives me deeper into the arms of God, right, because when he goes to war, like he, like I watched the bus pull away the very first time when he left me to go to war. And I was like, Oh my God, he's an, he is infantry. like people are going to shoot at him on purpose right like there are people who are gonna be shooting at my husband on purpose and i've never i have never felt so powerless okay never feltso powerless i thought you know being powerless over alcohol yeah yeah yeah that ain't this this is this stone cold sober looking life in the face looking at god and saying whole my powerless and i'm 22 years sober and i've had a deepening experience and i know what happens when fear is triggered and i became very fearful very quick and i had a decision to make and we have these decisions right it may not right it may not be a loved one going to war but there's it's going to be something else right but we have these moments in time and i have to decide am i going to collapse into the arms of god and i am i'm going to continue to trust him or not and i choose to collapse under the arms because at 22 years sober i'm still an active member of Alcoholics Anonymous I'm still in the middle I still have a home group I have sponsees I am right I am in the Middle of AlcoholicsAnonymous so I go back to my base which is now my relationship with God because of all of you and I collapse into his arms and I start learning how to practice living in the presence of God my concept of God has to grow my visualization of God has to grow. My trust in God has to grow. And here's the thing, the fear is constant. Guys, I am no longer one of those that says, you know, oh, if you have fear, then you don't have enough faith. That's crap, right? Fear is constant. It's real. He may not be coming home, that's the reality. Right? And so how do I live in fear and also remain in this trusting relationship with God? I do that by living in the constant presence of God. Right. There's that spiritual concept that says, does a fish know that it lives in water? Right. Or is the fish just living, right? Do I know that I live in God? Do I actually do I actually believe that God is everything? And if I do believe that god is everything, then I must choose to believe, even though I'm scared, I must chose to believe that I'm okay. And that all of my basic needs are met. Right? that's where I have to go with this. And so I go there and I throw myself into the arms of God and I learn how to deepen in prayer and meditation and all of that. And I understand that belongs to the 11th step. Don't mean to step on the toes of who's coming before me. And I, right? And so that happens for me. And what also happens in that process is i pay very close attention to the to my three basic instincts of life right because now be somebody have somebody and have all my needs met that have somebody my somebody's being shot at and i have to trust that if he comes home i'm going to be okay and if he doesn't come home i've been okay and guys i grow in leaps and bounds through that entire process and i am able to trust and rely on god in that way because i have practice taking my fear to god rather than taking my peer to my character defects i have practice turning to him rather than turning to myself and how i might manipulate those around me to give me temporary relief because if it is not of god it is fleeting that's been my experience if it does not work for me is not of god it is fleeting and step four being able to stay in constant inventory and remaining vigilant and watching out for this right and and cleaning right trust god clean house and and help others right those are the three pillars of everything we do right trust God clean house and help others. Step four is the way I keep my house clean, right? Do you just clean your house once a year? Hopefully not. I've known some in AA, maybe so, right. I don't, right, but every now and then I got to go in and I got do the spring cleaning, right I do my step 10, right so I do my weekly cleaning and you know clean the floors and the toilets and all that kind of stuff but once a year I got to go in and do that spring cleaning. And for me, I've been fortunate in that I get enough sponsees to at least once a year, I'm doing another four and five and that's my spring cleaning because what I learned in that process of having to trust and rely on God in a new way, even though I was scared every day is that I have to make as much room in my world and in my heart, in my head, in my behavior, I have to make as much room as I possibly can for God. Because there are those days when he's going to have to be bigger than he's ever been. And I'm going to need to experience him in a more complete way. And if I have not done a spring cleaning and I start to edge out all of that space that God used to, he used to have to roam in me. You follow me? Step four. Anyway, guys, I really, I know I have a few minutes left and this is going to shock Mike, right? Because I always run over, right. Mike's like, yeah, give me some time back. Um, I literally, I always ran over Mike's leg, you know, Deb runs over onto two CDs almost every darn time I recorded her. So, um, anyway, but guys, I don't want to get into the nuts and bolts of how to work a four step. This is about emotional sobriety. And the only way for me to be emotionally stable and to grow is to be able to exhale. And the only way I can exhale is when I stay in relationship with God. And I can't do that if I am living off of character defects triggered by fear. That's what I got for step four, right? Trust God, clean house, help others. Step four and five, that's cleaning house. And every now and then a spring cleaning is required. So thank you so much for having me. Thank you, Beth, for introducing me. It's been great to be with you guys today. Thanks, Deb. Appreciate you.