Dave P. and Polly P. on Tradition 2 and the Myth of 50-50 Relationships

I want to add just a little bit to what Polly was just saying. Okay, you guys, don't start with me. Somebody told me with a sweatshirt on I look like a preacher up here. uh we i i just wanted to relate an actual experience polly and i were seeing a lady one time and and we when we were on the fast track to uh the realized ultimate reality marriage that uh and they told me that i needed to share all of my feelings and you know some things with Polly. And we were on one particular subject, and I didn't want to share it. And this was back when we weren't where we are now, before we realized what Polly just said. But the therapist was a lady, and she and Polly convinced me that it would be to my benefit, to Polly's benefit and to the benefit of our marriage if I would share exactly how I felt about this particular subject. An old voice in me is screaming, don't do it! But I let him talk me into it, and so I shared then. And it hurt Polly very badly. And what's a real problem is that it was only a temporary feeling. Not long after that, I didn't feel that way anymore. polly forgave me for hurting her she'll never forget it she will never never ever forget what i said so you have to be careful because you can say things that will hurt people very badly and they may forgive you but they just never be able to forget it just never okay tradition two Tradition 2 says, For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority, a loving God, as He may express Himself in our group conscience. There are no people in Alcoholics Anonymous who govern. And that means nobody, but nobody is your boss in AA. There is nobody, an Alcoholics Anonymous that can tell you or me what we have to do. There is but one ultimate authority. A loving God as he may express himself. You know in all the time Polly and I have been together, 23 years, over 23 years. Never one time has God ever come down and whispered in my ear. Hey Dave, here's what I want you to get Polly to do. I don't know how she gets the information. Maybe he talks directly to her but he doesn't seem to use me very often to get information to her. At least I don' t feel that he does. and who could have it any other way, you know? Who in Alcoholics Anonymous or which human in the world would you like to have in charge of you? You know, who had absolute authority over you to tell you what you could and couldn't do. We're not going to put up with that. And when you really think about it, who would you want to have ultimate authority over? who do you want to boss around who do You want to jump every time You say jump you know it sounds cute for a while you know but I have a hard enough time being responsible for me you know I don't want to be responsible for You I don' t want to tell You what to do that's fine for a couple of days but come on you know I don''t have time to track You and keep up with You and assess Your behavior and see how You're doing this and how You'r doing that You know, I don't have time to sit there and wonder how I'm going to... You know my mood has changed since I told you all that stuff yesterday. And now I want you to do it differently because I'm in a different mood today than I was yesterday. It's just crazy. You know it's just Crazy. We neither want to be bossed nor do we want to boss anybody around. So in our relationship and in all our relationships not just Polly and I. But in all of our relationships God is the boss. God is the one authority. And we have to learn how to put our egos aside and let God do what he does best, and that's guide his children through their lives, help his children that ask for his help. You know, God gave us the greatest gift you could possibly imagine, and that is the gift of free will. God says, do you want me to stay out of your life? I'll stay out. No problem. i i am at your disposal it's your call if you want my help i'd love to give it to you i enjoy you and i'd like for you to enjoy me but you want me to stay out i'll do it so if god is willing to give me free will if god isn't willing to do that willing to get you free will who am i to try to take that away from you it's not my gift to you it's god's gift to him where on earth would i get the idea that i should I'd in any way take that away from you or my wife or anybody. Sometimes you get into relationships and you find that one partner does try to be dominating. And sometimes the other side of that coin, the other partner allows, even encourages the dominating. One partner tries to be dominating because he has problems with selfishness and self-centeredness. He thinks. and the other partner wants to be dominated because they feel like, you know, if anything goes wrong, it's not my fault. You know, but the truth is both problems are caused by the same thing, fear. Both problems are caused by fear. You're afraid, okay? The person who likes to control other people is afraid that life in some way or other, reality will wander off into a place they're not comfortable, and they want to make sure that they stay in charge so they can keep everything right where they want it. And the person that likes to be dominated or allows themselves to be dominated is afraid to face life. Both sides of the coin. It's the same problem. Fear. That's the biggest single problem we have, and all kinds of things disguise themselves as fear, and of all kinds of fear are disguised as other things. A lot of times we are angry, you know. I've known a lot of really, really tough guys in Alcoholics Anonymous. We're talking about hard time prison tough guys. And if you really get to know a lot OF those guys, they'll tell you that the reason they went up and punched you in the face is because they were scared. It's the only thing they need to do. it's the only thing you need to do so fear disguises a lot of things so anyway you know the the thing we have to remember is that active participation in any kind of relationship by both parties is essential you know if both people aren't taking part in the thing it's not a relationship you know you're not dealing with people with whom you have a relationship you're dealing with acquaintances and so no partner can assume the position of speaking for the other without first having consulted him or her and another word for this at the very least is courtesy you know, courtesy is it is very, very important that I be courteous to you not for your sake for my sake you know i need courtesy is me being courteous to you for my it's for my sakes for my well-being not yours you can say see ya you know if i treat you badly where does that leave me sitting here alone my behavior has caused me a lot of pain And, you know, I had to learn this the hard way. You know, I am still growing a lot in this area. You know as Polly was talking about she would make a suggestion and if I didn't like it I'd counter suggest but you know you get to be very subtle in these things and you just kind of slip one in when nobody's watching. And, you know I have to really try to monitor myself and make sure I stop doing that. And when I catch myself doing it, to just stop it. You know, just stop. Driving, you know. Especially on crowded freeways. You know? It is easy when somebody turns on a signal light to speed up so they can't get in. You know this is my lane. This is my Lane. That's your Lane over there. Stay in it. you know so how do i deal with that i just make it a point you know it's like a commitment if i see your signal blinker come on i slow down and let you in i don't speed up so you can get in i slow it down and lets you in and uh just a little personal commitment it helps me be courteous uh you know we don't uh uh we don' t always think god personally comes down and sorts out our arguments necessarily. You know, there are times when Polly thinks I am dead wrong about something and there are time when I'm convinced she is dead wrong about something and no matter what I do or say she is not going to see the error of her ways. So what we've learned to do is just say you could be right and drop it. Leave it alone. Just say you could be right. And there's another tool that we have, that we use a lot. And it was given to us by a fellow named Albert Myers, who has now died and gone to the big meeting in the sky. But you're not going to like this one very much either. And that is, you simply say, I'm sorry. I was wrong. I'm sorry I was wrong. Please forgive me. That goes a long way sometimes, just to say, I'm sorry. I was right. I was wrong. You know, I hope you forgive me, please forgive me so our checklist that we have for tradition too is number one, the first one is do I insist on being the leader do i feel like it is my place to govern or be the boss or do we strive for equity and we strive for equality as much as possible there's an idea that floats around sometimes that says marriage is a 50 50 relationships in general is a fifty fifty proposition well that's bull okay that's simply not true you know sometimes polly is putting out 80 she's carrying 80 of the load and I'm carrying 20, but all I have is 20. I'm putting everything I got out, but today I only have 20. And tomorrow I'll have to carry 75 and she'll only have 25. So, you know, this rigid delineation of whose job it is to do what and 50-50 and all that, I mean, that's a nice thought, but it doesn't work. do i try to speak for my mate without consulting her no i don't uh not as a rule do i criticize my mate or do i trust her i i trust polly with my life you know i i find that if i am completely trustworthy myself that removes the biggest single barrier there is to trusting other people by being trustworthy it's easier to trust other people and I have to ask myself am I absolutely trustworthy? How about me? Am I trustworthy? What if I say this little prayer, God grant me tomorrow, treat me tomorrow, God treat me tomorrow the way I treat others today Does that make you nervous? Terrifying Made my sphincter oscillate. Yeah, that's scary when you first hear that. It grows on you though. I like this one. God, help me not do anything today that I can't tell Polly about tonight. Is my ego so strong that I must have credit for more than I do? Am I so insecure that I always have to have praise? Somebody always has to notice my actions and give me praise for everything I do. Do I expect that? Do I feel shortchanged if I don't get it? Do I Feel resentful if you don't praise me because I did something like take out the trash? You know, taking out the trash to men is a chore. To women it's an act of love. Yeah, just take out the trash sometimes without it having to be yelled at. They love you for it. Do I do my share in our relationship? And is that my opinion or is that Polly's? If you want to know if I do mine, if I share, don't ask me. I'm the wrong guy because you know what my answer is going to be. Of course. If you wanted to know, if I knew my share, you ask her. You're likely to get a more accurate answer does the thought of God being in charge of our relationship cause me any discomfort or do I like and rely on that idea I love that idea I like for my relationships to work really well you know and I want to say this take full advantage of your safest relationships to deal with some of your character defects. Take full advantage of that. Find the ones that are safe so that if you blunder, you don't ruin everything. You don't destroy the relationship. Polly says some things to me sometimes, and she told me one time, and I realized this when she told мне. She said, well, Dave, I guess the reason I'm able to do that and I don't remember if it was exactly what it was but she says, I guess the reason that I feel that I treat you that way sometimes is because I just can't help it and you're my safest relationship. You know, I know that we are going to be okay and it's not something I would feel comfortable doing with other people. So if you need to practice a little bit, Practice on your safest relationships. You know, take advantage of that. Because what you need to know is that you were wrong. You know if you're a woman, go home tonight and get out your lipstick. And if you are a man, go hom tonight and borrow your wife or your girlfriend's lipstick. And right on your bathroom mirror put your name. Dave, you are wrong. And just about everything your head tells you about you until you've been in this recovery program for some time, that will be true. See, when you come here brand new with your problems, whatever it is, alcoholism or drug addiction or anything, You have to know that those of us sitting here know more about you than you do. It's true. All you know about you is what your head tells you about you. What we know aboutyou is not only we know what yourhead is telling you, but we also know what's going to happen to you if you can find it within yourself to keep faith with us. We know where you're going. You're going to love it. Let's break for lunch. Wait, wait. Oh, wait, wait! You need to make an announcement. Ah, excuse me. Thank you. Where do I set this? That's your phone. I'm Polly, alcoholic. Hi, good afternoon. did everybody have a nice lunch all right as you can see I just sit over there in a daze you guys understand English I don't have a clue about Danish so I am thank you I mean I can't even believe you guys speak so many languages it's unbelievable we're going to do tradition three is where we're gonna pick up now the only tradition three the only requirement for a a membership is a desire to stop drinking. And this was not necessarily the case when we first came to the rooms, when the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous started in the early years. They used to if somebody came into the room they still had a watch. They said you haven't drank enough, you need to go out. So it was not just enough to come in because you had a desire to stop drinking. And today, nobody can throw you out of AA. Absolutely nobody. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drink. And I've heard a lot of young people who have come into the rooms and so many of you qualify for that and I've heard them say in the past, you know, these old timers would say to me, well, I've spill more booze than you drank. And, you know, words like that. And the good news is that thank God no one could throw them out of AA. So what happens in a relationship is the basic requirement for a good relationship is a mutual desire to make it work. Now, there are many reasons that people stay in a partnership other than a mutual reason, desire. There many reasons that we stay in relationships that are not healthy for us, are not good for us. And one of those is financial security. A lot of times, especially women, and it's not always women, but it seems like it's mostly women, stay in relationship that can be very abusive and harmful because they're so afraid to not have the financial security that they have in the relationship. Emotional security, some people stay in a relationship because they're terrified to be alone. They just absolutely can't fathom themselves being alone and their self-worth is so low that they're afraid if they're not in this relationship nobody will have them. Some people stay in a relationship because of children. They feel like they have they're trapped They have to stay here because of children. Taking into consideration, should this be an abusive relationship, that that's very harmful to children. Now, I have sponsored women who have been in abusive relationships. I mean relationships that have been dangerous for them to be in. And their reason for staying there was, well, because of the children. And, you know, my reaction to them is, well, what if he ends up killing you? And what does that do to the children? So there's a lot of things. We need to want to be in a relationship. And the same thing that happens on a job. A lot of times there's all kinds of reasons we stay in abusive jobs with people who are, because we're afraid, afraid that there's nothing else better for us. Mostly because our self-worth is so low. And sometimes they'll say, well, it's not God's will that I leave. And I'm kind of like, is it God's Will to get killed here? You know, I don't think that's God'swill. So what happens is we need a mutual desire to be in a relationship. Now, I'm not going to say that you're always going to desire to Be in a Relationship. I'm not talking about a relationship that, you know, there's no perfect relationship, okay? No perfect relationship. And Dave and I both like to say I don't know of anybody who has a better relationship than we do, but I know lots of people who have as good a relationship as we have. But we have a good relationship. but I can assure you I don't always like him I mean we were talking to Moss today on the way over that I've stopped calling him so many nasty names I've gotten better about that but I used to have a lot of names for him we're on tape But the ingredient is I have a desire, and Dave has a desire to be in the relationship. So what happens is that when things are less than perfect, we are willing to take the actions to do whatever we can in order to work through whatever problem we have. And what we do is we have lots of tools. I'm in AA and Al-Anon, and Dave went to his first Al-A-Non meeting Tuesday night right here in Denmark. So that was a good thing. The thing about it is we have a mutual desire for our relationship to work, so we put a lot of effort. We pick up the tools of the programs and we work them. So, let's see what some checklists, the checklist for the third tradition. Do my actions say that I desire to be in this relationship? One of the things I'd like to say is that we're always talking about love. And I'm not sure alcoholics have a clue what the word love means. If you look love up in the dictionary, it talks that love is an action. If I love you, I show you and act like I love you. It is not love to push somebody in the face and then say, but I love you. That's not love. That is abuse. So what happens is that what we do is do my actions say that I love Dave? And one of the things that I think is wonderful about Dave and I is we've been here long enough, and we've had the programs of Alcoholics Anonymous and Al-Anon long enough that our deal is we just can't wait to do things for each other. And what happens is all my life I've been waiting for you to do it for me. Now, I come from the South in the United States, So I'm a southern girl, and southern girls think men were put on earth to take care of women. And see, my description of happiness was money, men, and mansions. That was happiness. I knew nothing about being able to be a participant, to give to the relationship. I knew Nothing About Those Things. So what we've had to do is we learn, what would you like and what would you like? And we've tried to have that consideration for each other and by doing that, our relationship has flourished. So we love doing things for each another. So we put love, the action of love into our relationship. Do I approach my marriage unselfishly or do I depend on my mate to make me feel good? I used to need you to make me feel good. And how I felt, I thought, if you treated me really good, you gave me a lot of gifts, you did a lot of things for me, you loved me. I was always needing you to give it to me. And what happened was is I still was never happy. I had no mutual desire. I was sitting there waiting to get. And in doing so, I never found any kind of happiness in my first marriage. And it wasn't because of what he was doing, it was because of what I wasn't doing. He was trying desperately to make me happy. But see when we have the disease of alcoholism, there is nothing anybody can do that's enough. There's no way people can make us happy. The big book of Alcoholics Anonymous says when we're suffering from a spiritual malady, nothing's enough You can't love us enough, you can't give us enough You can' t do enough There isn' t enough So there was nothing he could do to make me happy Even though he tried Am I committed To and do I Encourage my mate's spiritual Professional and individual growth I am committed To my marriage Commitment I learned about commitment In the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous I did not know about commitment in my first marriage. I was not faithful in my first marriage, emotionally or physically. I wasn't faithful. All I wanted was what made me feel good. That was all. I often say that alcoholism is the disease of needing to feel good . We're the feel-good people. How does that feel? A lot of times when somebody working with an AA talks about feelings. I am not interested in your feelings. I am very interested in you actions. Because that feeling is going to pass. So what I need to know is about your actions. But I wasn't, I did not support my mate. I was not committed and I learned to be committed in AA. And what I learned first about commitment was be committed to a home group. Be committed. I have a home group. It's the third legacy group that meets on Monday night at 7 o'clock in Bellingham, Washington. I am there unless I'm out of town doing some other AA service. I am at my home group no matter what. That's my commitment. And I learned to be committed in AA and thus I was able to learn to be permitted to my husband. Have an AA function sometime, and somebody will say, well, do we have enough people signed up? My always today, I've been around long enough, don't worry about it. Most alcoholics don't know how to commit, so five minutes before the function they decide they're coming. That's the way we do things. But what I've learned to do is commit. Find a home group, begin to learn about commitment. And when I got married, I committed to my marriage. I committed it to be faithful no matter what. I committed t o be faithful. And today that's what I do. I'm committed to m ymarriage. And I don't mean committed if there's abuse or anything that's going to harm me in any way. But I am committed to miy marriage. And in being committed, I began to realize that I want to support my husband. Now, my husband and I, I say this a lot, Dave and I have nothing in common but AA. That's it. We are way out here. Dave is one of these intellectual people who's always looking for quarts and ozones, And I'm just like, oh. And I've always telling him, you give me more information than I ever wanted to know about. And Dave loves to throw a 40-pound pack on his back and walk around on top of mountains and throw ropes up on mountains and climb up mountains. And to me, it's like, oh, my God, you mess up my fingernails and skin my knees. And, you know, to me I don't want that. I want a warm bed and a shower and a potty I sit on. You know, those are the things I want. I don' t want to be doing things in the woods. And so we don't, but what else? But you know what? I love it that he loves to do that. I love him. I travel a lot in Alcoholics Anonymous, and today it's not as big a deal because I retired in July. But it used to be a big deal because I worked. Like, I would work about a 50-hour week, and I had a long commute to work. And then I worked, plus my AA commitments in California, plus being gone on the weekend for an AA commitment. So it was really a sacrifice in our relationship and Dave supported me. So what we've done is go, whatever passion a person has, go support that and be glad they do it and be happy it makes them happy. And what we're doing is what we have done is we've been able to do that for each other and that's a gift. Am I able to share my feelings with my partner can i listen to my partner's feelings i do this much better than dave does but you know what he's really gotten good about it he'll i i thought it was really good we were talking in the car and uh ma said he had read something that you know and uh we read this book uh men are from mars women are from venus i'm sure that you've seen this book around and i guess in the book it says you know just look you know men are to listen for like 20 minutes We don't need a lot. We just need a little attention. And Dave's learned how to give that to me. So he acts interested. So again, it's not about how you feel. It's how you behave, right? It's our actions that count. So he Acts Interested. And when he is sailing off onto some big computer geeky thing, I'm just sitting there. I'm really trying. Nothing's going in, but I'm listening. So what I try to do is to remember to always look at my part in the relationship. If I am unhappy, and the 12 and 12, it talks about in the 10th step, it is a spiritual axiom. Whenever I'm disturbed, no matter what the cause, there's something wrong with me. So what i try to d is keep my eyes on my own actions. And in doing so, then Dave and I are not blaming each other for what's wrong with our marriage and we continue to have a mutual desire to stay in the relationship. Tradition forward. Thank you very much for your time. those of you who would like to know some of the little terms of endearment that my wife has used on me in the past see me after the break Okay, Tradition 4 says each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or AA as a whole. Here is an area where there is, in my experience, an awful lot of abuse in Alcoholics Anonymous. this is a place where the bleeding deacons especially take umbrage at what is written in our book but what this tradition really means for Alcoholics Anonymous and for the other programs who have adopted in essence these same traditions is that your group, your home group it is important for you to participate in your home group because your home groups should be Well, I need to avoid words like should. Home groups have the tradition of group conscience. Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or AA as a whole. So that means your group is autonomous. It is what you want it to be within the following guidelines. If you decide that you are only going to allow alcoholics to come to your meeting, then that's what's called a closed meeting. I think a few closed meetings are good. If you decided that non-alcoholics can come to our meeting, then that is an open meeting. And an open meaning does not necessarily mean that non alcoholics get to participate. It just means they can attend. And what the traditions are in your group governing that are that, and these are groups that I know of that allow this to work, and it works well for them. I know one group. I know lots of different sets of groups that do this. But it is common in some places to have a lot of open meetings. The benefit to open meetings is that you can bring people with you, okay? Many times families are suspicious of other family members that go to AA because they're told they're not allowed to go. See, now if you're a wife and you drive your husband up to an AA meeting and you see a lot of cute girls going in and you tell her she's not allowed to go, I mean, that's going to make even the most trusting soul a little bit suspicious. So you need to be able to take your wife or your husband. You need to being able to be take your grown children and maybe even your small children. Our home group furnishes child support, child care. If you're a single parent or if you have your children for the weekend or whatever, and you need to come to a meeting but you have Your kids, our group furnishes a babysitter. Our meeting is in a church. We have a nursery. You can take Your kids to the nursery. And we have a babysinner there who takes care of the kids. And she is paid out of the group collection. So our group pays for that. just so we can make sure that we are as inclusive as we can possibly be. I know of other open meetings where people from Al-Anon not only are welcome to come, but can speak, can share. See, if you want to have people from Overeaters Anonymous or NA or wherever, If you want to let them share in your meeting, that's up to you. There's nothing carved in any stone tablet, AA tablet anywhere that says you can't do that. Your group is autonomous. And that's why business meetings are important and so forth. You know, we have some really, we Have Some Strange Ideas That Come Along In AA. I mean, really weird. We're weird to begin with, but we have something. We had some people in the U.S. a while back that were beating the drum for a gender-neutral big book. They wanted to rewrite the big book to make it gender neutral. So I guess they didn't like fellowship, they wanted a person-ship or something, I don't know. But if you don't get involved in your group and go to business meetings and all, the next thing you know you may be reading a gender neutral big book. but if you have an AA group and you let people from, let us say, OA come to your group and share you probably won't see me in your meeting I doubt that I'll come to that kind of group but it's certainly your right to do so if you want to It's okay with AA if you do that This tradition says it and it's a very important tradition, very important traditionally. Because otherwise, what are you going to think? The same thing I'm going to thank, that we're being dictated to by some bunch of creeps in New York that we never heard of, and we don't care what they say. And you call them up sometimes, and they say, well, we can't tell you what to do. We won't even try. Our experience is this, but you can do whatever you want to do So, in terms of relationships, That means each of us, both Polly and I, in the case of our marriage, should be autonomous except in matters affecting the other. Or our family. Or society as a whole. So, each partner should be anonymous except in manners affecting the other partner, other members, such as children or parents, or the relationship as a home. And another way to say that is that we must become unselfish. Our thinking must become, how does this affect us rather than how does it affect me? Now obviously if we have children, we have to come to agreement with regard to our children. We have to comes to agreement in regards to our parents. But otherwise, if you call Polly and want to know if she can come and speak at your conference, That's entirely up to her. That's her decision. That's not mine. You know, we keep a book, a schedule at home. And if we want to do something together, we have to put it in the book, in the schedule. Otherwise, she's free to do something and I'm free to doing something. If it's important. You know I don't want her to come and ask me is it okay with me if she goes somewhere and speaks at a conference? Of course it's okay with me. You know I cherish freedom. I cherish my freedom. You know, it is wonderful to feel free and unconstrained, to be able to do what I want to do when I want to do it within the framework of a successful relationship. And because I know how important that is to me, I also know it's just as important to her to have the same freedom. I'm going to build a fence around her. Why would I wantto do that? You know she was free when I met her. You know considering all the luck I had managing lives, What could I expect the outcome to be if I tried to manage her life? Look what he did to me. Just think what I could do to her. So this gives us freedom in all the essential matters, you know. She is free to choose her own way to approach her life and her functioning and all this. You know, the only responsibility that that freedom carries is that neither one of us can do anything that's going to damage our marriage and our relationship. I mean, that's beyond the boundaries. Autonomy means self-governing. In order to be autonomous, you have to first realize, I think I had to first realized that I'm God's kid. You know, I am God's child. I'm not just somebody's mother or father or brother or sister or wife or husband. You know, when I ask God what He would like for me to do one day at a time and then go about trying to do His will the best that I can, this is not going to endanger my relationship. You know I get up every morning, every single morning, Polly and I pray together out loud. Took a long time to get to that let me tell you. But we do now. And every morning I say aloud while we're holding hands, I say the third step prayer. god we offer ourselves to you to build with us and to do with us as you will now i was i was talking to uh the lady just before this we reconvened today i thought you know the big the big hump i had to get over on that was that you know i thought doing god's will So, you know, without any, you know, it's just not going to be fun. It's not. You know, if I take all of the barriers down, you know, I just tear down all the dams and take away all the reservations and just freely say, I'll do whatever your will is for me. I'm going to have to go to Africa and be a missionary or something. You don't have to ride around on a bicycle and convert people to Mormonism. You know, doing stuff for God just can't be fun. But once you get over that hump, how do you get Over It? Well, you just keep going along, and gradually as you go along trying to keep the faith, you realize you have more and more faith. It just happens, because your life keeps getting better and better and your faith keeps getting stronger and stronger. Who has faith at first? Faith is not a commodity you can go down and buy at the local shop. It's something that you have to develop within yourself. You've got to have a lot of prayers answered before you have strong faith. and um so i i um i finally got over that hump and um said you know god we we are yours do with us whatever you will and the next thought then that comes to me is you know well i'm god's kid i belong to god i i gave myself to it i belong with him which means nothing bad is going to happen to me. Things may happen to me I don't like but it's only because I don' t understand. I have been in the midst of some absolutely tremendous miracles just bitching and griping every step of the way because I just knew I was getting screwed. I couldn't see it while I was in it, while it was going on. I just couldn't say it. But I get down the road a little further and I look back and I think look at what he did. Can you believe that? Sheesh. So, I don't have to worry about my relationship. I don' t have to if I turn her loose to do whatever she wants to do. You know, we belong to God and nothing's going to happen to us. It's okay, you know. As she said, we're very different, you now. I mean, I take the guys I sponsor and do things that she was talking about you know we go backpacking and all that stuff go skinny dipping in the creek and you know or the lake or whatever and have a great time you know a very good spiritual time you know and and polly's idea of roughing at a slow room service and black and white tv so you know so allowing your mate to be free just really shouldn't be a stumbling block you know we actively encourage each other to just follow our bliss. You know, follow your bliss. Do what makes you happy. And, you know, and you become secure within that after a while. All of this stuff is scary at first because it is completely contrary to the way we feel. You know what? What is an alcoholic approach to a relationship? You know if you love someone very much let them go free. If they come back of their own free will, they are yours forever. If they don't, hunt them down and kill them. That's the way we think. That'sthe way wethink. So, you know, at the same time, neither one of us has the right to commit the other person to something without first getting their permission or talking to them about it. So when it comes to social engagements, if you call and want to know if Polly and I both can come to your conference, she will not say yes until she talks to me first, and vice versa, neither will I. We have to come to agreement on things that affect both of us. so um you know this just says this tradition says that you know freedom is the is the lifeblood of a relationship you know because how many of you you know when you start feeling a little insecure because you feel like your partner's moving away from you or your friends or whatever your tendency is to grab a hold tighter and tighter and hang on and there is absolutely nothing that will chase somebody away quicker than that kind of action and somehow sometimes you just can't seem to help it but it'll kill a relationship quicker than anything else so the checklist we have for tradition four do I feel like there are certain ways to do things and are they my ways? You bet they are and do I insist on things being done in those ways? Not anymore. Do I always think about how or if my decisions will affect my partner, and if so, do I communicate with my partner and come to agreement? Am I willing to go to any lengths, her lengths, not mine, her lengths. To protect the integrity of our relationship. And, you know, once you know the joy of a working, loving relationship going to any lengths to protect its integrity, it's just not that big a problem. You'll just do it. You'lljustwanttodoit. Do I carefully avoid injuring my mate emotionally, physically, or spiritually? You bet. You know, if you're in a tight relationship with somebody, you now where the buttons are. You know where your mate's buttons are, you can push them anytime you want to. you know you really know how to hit below the belt whether you're male or female you know so the question is do I ever push any of those buttons do I every go up and say watch this and if you do that stop it how do I deal with my partner's anger regarding something I've done through my autonomy? Am I defensive? Oh boy, I used to be. We talked about that earlier. My reaction is to get mad, get defensive and get mad. Do I try to subdue her with still greater anger? Do I point out previous mistakes that she might have made? Boy, you know, Um, I think I am really, really good about that. You know, I do not do that. You know I hate it when people do that to me. Oh man I hate. And so I just, I don't do that you know. It's like and sometimes we get in the habit of you know saving things up. You know we just save and save and see you know and one of these days somebody will come in and say hi sweetheart and you'll say what do you mean by that he said I don't know so you know don't try to don't punish your mate the last point is to what extent do I depend on Polly's language our looks our race our education our age our appearance our job or anything else to what extent do I depend on any of those things for my own self-esteem one does probably have to do to keep my ego fluffed up and with any luck at all nothing Number five. Tradition five, each group has but one primary purpose to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers. Better do one... I'm going to read this from the 12 and 12 because I think it's very important. Better to do one thing well than many badly. The life of our fellowship depends on this principle. The ability of each AA to identify himself with and bring recovery to the newcomer is our gift from God. Passing on this gift to others is our one aim. Sobriety can't be kept unless it is given away. Two things are said here. Each group has but one primary purpose. A lot of times in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous, you hear the word singleness of purpose. And this is why AAs do better having an AA group. The tradition before says that any group, you know, is autonomous. They can do pretty much what they want to do as long as it doesn't affect AA as a whole. But what works best is, we're saying, is AA, you know, do an AA meeting, do an Al-Anon meeting, do a OA meeting, an NA meeting, have a singleness of purpose. Now in California we have some meetings that work really great and they're called family meetings and they are AA and Al-Anon meetings and in those meetings they have an AA share and an Al Anon share. So the tradition is talking about singleness of purpose and carrying the message. And the most important thing that we do, and this is in our preamble, is to stay sober and to help another alcoholic. And how do we stay sober? Work the steps and carry the message to another alcoholic, the gift of the fifth tradition. The fifth tradition is it applies to a relationship A relationship has but one primary purpose To love each other and to serve as an expression of God's love One of the things that I believe that is very important Is how I express my love today One of things I believe like carrying the message to another alcoholic It's important that I carry the message because what I do is going to show the other alcoholic how AA works. Now, if people come off the street and they walked in here and we were yelling at each other and carrying on, that wouldn't be very much of an attraction. That wouldn't mean carrying the message. But I'm with Dave, and I don't know if you have had this situation. Have you ever been around a couple or a parent or any situation where people were not being kind to each other and how uncomfortable you felt, like they were yelling at each other and calling each other names and you were sitting there listening to it? It's very uncomfortable. So it's important how I treat Dave, that I treat him with an expression of love, that I carry the message of two alcoholics being married, that when I'm with my grandchildren, my children are too old now, but with my grandchildren, that I'm not standing there yelling at them and hollering at them and making all the people around me uncomfortable because of how I'm treating the children. These are the ways that we carry the message in relationships. one of the things that's uh that happens is that part of carrying the message of a marriage is when one of us makes a mistake to be kind to that other person and i'm going to use an example i'm dave has been far better to me in this area than i've been to him and it's because i've made more mistakes. And I'm going to give you an example of the kind of mistakes that I've made that he's been very kind about and has been supportive and has carried the message of our relationship and let me know how much he loves me. And a few years back, Dave gave me a piece of Hartman luggage. That's a very expensive piece of luggage. I don't know if It is in Denmark, but it is in the States. He gave me this piece of luggage and it was in a box and he gave it to me for Christmas. Well, what happened was, is I thought the luggage was out of the box and I put the box out on the street for the trash. Guess what happened to the luggage? And I'm so upset about that. And I went and I told him, and I just knew he was going to be so angry with me for doing that. And he just looked at me and he said, Polly, you feel so bad about this. There is just nothing I could say. Absolutely. Just try not. It's just luggage. It's juste luggage. In other words, instead of yelling and screaming at me and making me feel worse, he comforted me. So part of it is our primary purpose is to love each other and to comfort each other. And sometimes that's hard. You know, sometimes I do it through gritted teeth. You know if something gets lost or broken or you know speeding tickets. You have to spend money that you really don't have. Well, you know, we'll know better next time. Little things like that happened the other day. So, okay, the checklist. Do we have a primary purpose and do we know what it is? Our primary purpose is to love each other and to try to carry that message that this is how you behave in a marriage. Because of the tools I have learned in Alcoholics Anonymous and Al-Anon, these are the tools that I am going to demonstrate in my marriage. Do I resort to emotional blackmail? This is something that is, I think, really hard for people like us. Because our whole childhood is about we've either been raised on guilt or me was guilt. And it was all Jesus is just going to, that makes Jesus so unhappy when you do things like that. And I just, you know, I came into the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous to assure God wanted to kill me. I just knew he did. I had no idea that God loved me. It was just like it seemed like everything I was done, I know today that it was my perception. I heard things that weren't said to me and I saw things that waren't there. But what happened was is I was always thinking that if I didn't do thus and such, God wouldn't love me. So consequently, it was that if you don't do this and such you don' t love me." It was that constant emotional blackmail. Dave and I try never to do that because, like he said in the earlier tradition, we know where each other's buttons are, and it would be easy to harm him. Many, especially women, are very much that do it much more. And I don't want to sound sexist, but it does, it seems to be women, is that we emotionally blackmail men with sex. You know, if you're going to do such and such, well, I might, you know. so learn to give for fun and for free do I do I demand precise equality one of the things is I'm just here to tell you right now I am not a feminist and And because what happens is I don't want to do some of this stuff 50-50. I just really don't. I don'T want to, you know, I don' t want to dO some of the hard work that Dave does. I don''t want to mow yards and dig in the dirt. I don ''t want do stuff like that. I like to do my things. And so what Dave and I try to do is like a lot of times our relationship may be 50- 50. But most of the time, I'm doing a little bit more somewhere and he's doing a little less and he is doing a more and I am doing a little less. So what I like to call it instead of the 50-50 equality, I like to say we try to find a balance, just a balance. Do I really understand that my troubles are of my own making? If I am unhappy in this relationship, I need to look at me. It is not Dave's job to make me happy. is my job. And most of the time what I need to be doing as a recovering alcoholic in Al-Anon is get to a meeting, talk to my sponsor and go help somebody. That's usually what I need to do. Do we express God's love in our relationship? One of the things that I'd really like for people to say is that they're a very loving couple. I want to treat my husband with respect because I love being married today. I love it. And I want you to know that I love it. So I want to be sure and treat him with respect. And it makes me feel good. I don't feel good when I'm cutting him down. I feel best when I am being kind and loving to him. And one of the things that it's not Dave's job to help my self-esteem. That's my job. And sometimes I have, you know, I've been depressed or not feeling well and he tries to help me. But one of the things that we've learned to do, and we've mostly learned it from the runes of Al-Anon, is to just say, I'm so sorry you feel like that. And to allow each of our feelings to be our own responsibility. And it's worked much better. That way we stop trying to fix each other. Tradition six. Oh, you know what? We need to take a break. Okay, we're going to take a 10-15 minute break for a smoke break, okay? Thank you very much. Okay, the next tradition is six. And tradition 6 says we ought never single-handedly or, I'm sorry, I need to read the AA, the standard tradition. AA groups should never endorse, finance, or lend the AA name to any outside enterprise, related facility or outside enterprise lest problems of money, property, and prestige divert us from our primary purpose. What that tradition really says is that But we need to understand that as Alcoholics Anonymous, we only know one thing. We know how to help drunks get and stay sober. That's all we know. And any time we think we know more than that, we're going to be getting into trouble. I talked this morning about Dr. Benjamin Rush. I talked about the Washingtonians. There was another group called the Emanuel Movement. I talked about the Oxford Group. There are a lot of other groups. They all got started and many of them were very successful working with alcoholics. The Washingtonians were very successful for a while but then they forgot what their purpose was and they became affiliated with political causes and other things and they lost their way. We don't know how to do anything but get drunk sober and help them stay that way. That's it. So we need never... Where are we going to be if we lend our name to some kind of political movement, no matter how good we think it might be? Where are мы going to быть if we lent our name to a treatment facility? See, if anything happens, to us, it is our own fault. But if we are affiliated with some other organization and they are beset by scandal, it rubs off on us. And so we have to make sure that we remember that we are Alcoholics Anonymous. We have a rule that says whenever anybody anywhere reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA to be there and for that I'm responsible. the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking and that's all we do that's what we do and we need to remember that another thing is when you get affiliated with other organizations if you went out in the world and you said hey I got an idea for a new organization, we're going to have a few million members worldwide and nobody's going to be in charge everybody's going to be a servant nobody's going to be a master everything is voluntary nobody has to pay any dues or fees they don't want to nobody has to do anything they don't want to you know it's just kind of like a little free loosey-goosey worldwide organization what do you think about that they lock you up you know nobody would predict success for that you know and if we get if we become affiliated with other organizations even if they don't uh even ifthey don't have any scandal attached to them or or any any bad qualities or anything still uh it is very it is a lot to ask a normal rational human that they accept our philosophy and live with it they don't want to do it i mean they're they're convinced it won't work so uh anyway that is a tradition six as far as relationships are concerned the way we apply this to our lives is that our married life is that we ought never single-handedly endorse finance or lend our name to any outside enterprise less problems of money property our prestige, divert us from our commitment to each other. And this simply means that I can endorse anything I want to. If I want belong to a certain political party, it's okay. It's my decision. I can do that. If i want to vote for a certain candidate, I do that, but I can't make Polly do that. That's her decision. I can say our family belongs to this organization or that party or anything like that. I cant lend our money. We talked about the tradition of unity. That means we have a bank account. Any income that comes my way goes into our joint bank account. Any income that comes her way goes into her joint bank account. And I can't make any commitments. I can't do anything with our resources unless she agrees that we should do that, and vice versa. I can loan my friends money of any size. I mean, you know, we're not talking about five bucks for lunch or something for heaven's sake, but I can make any significant claim on our resources that we haven't talked over and she doesn't agree with. I can't move people into our house without her agreement. You know, I can say, oh yeah, come on over and live with us for a while, it'll be okay. We just don't do that, you know. It's also our belief that one partner, like in this case, in our particular case, you You know, I don't need to be overly supportive of Polly, you know, spiritually or emotionally. I don'T need to do that. You know? I want... I don' t think any one partner should work harder on their spouse's program than they do. I don''t... I'm not going to work harder in her AA program than she does. You know. And I don ''t expect her to work hard on mine than I do. You know ? I expect to support her, and I expect her to support me. Now you go through life and you hear people say things, well, like you should never have expectations. Well, let me tell you, I have some expectations of her. I absolutely do. I expect she'll be a good person. I expect here to, you know, among other things, I expect, of course, to remain faithful. I don't think you can have a successful relationship without that. I expect there to remain sober and a member in good standing of Alcoholics Anonymous. I don't know how we're going to keep this thing together if we don't. You know, when we break faith with AA, if we do not stay active in AA, we know what happens to us. We just slowly are thinking. It just slowly does a U-turn and heads right back where it came from. You know? There's a statement in the book that says... There's a statement in the book that says, and I quote, We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on our spiritual condition. Well, contingent upon the maintenance of our spiritual conditioning. Well, how are you going to maintain your spiritual condition? What do you have to do to do that? Well, you have to go to meetings. You have to stay active in Alcoholics Anonymous. To do what? Stay sober? No. To keep faith with AA, you'd have to fulfill the conditions of AA. What are the conditions? You'd haveと share what you've found with other people. You'd hae to share. If you want to keep what you have, you'll have to share it with others. We believe that daily prayer and meditation, we do that together every morning. The book says, ask it in your morning meditation what you can do for the man who is still sick. That's how you maintain your spiritual condition. We believe in service. We've said it several times today. Whenever anybody anywhere reaches out for help, we want the hand of AA to be there. We believe that you maintain Your spiritual condition by agreeing to help other alcoholics as a sponsor, for example. Step 12 says we try to carry this message to other alcoholists and to practice these principles in all our affairs. We believe that commitment is a way to keep your spiritual condition. You know, step ten says we continue to take personal inventory. And when we're wrong, promptly admit it. And finally, you know, well not finally, but be responsible and accountable. You know? Be authentic. Live honestly. All of that doesn't come easy. But as I was just saying to somebody, so what? What have you ever gotten in life that was easy or free? It was really worth having. Now, that's a little preachy and that's the end of my sermon. But, you know, we don't talk about what God wants us to do. We talk about how God wants me to be. What does God want me to do? And in the other big book, what does God say on more than one occasion? Be not afraid. Be not afraid. So, this tradition is important in protecting the relationship and its unity and it keeps each one of us responsible for him or herself and carries with it the realization that neither one of us can meet all the needs of the others so we're responsible for taking care of ourselves but we're enhanced by our association with each other, you know. There's a guy named Khalil Gibran who wrote about marriage in his book The Prophet. Is anybody familiar with that? And it says, love one another but make not a bond of love. Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls. Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup. Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf sing and dance together and be joyous but let each one of you be alone let each excuse me one ofyou be alone even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music give your hearts but not into each other's keeping for only the hand of life can contain your hearts and stand together yet not too near together for the pillars of the temple stand apart, and the oak and the cypress grow not in each other's shade. So Polly had a sponsor one time who gave us this advice. He said that you will plant yourself in Alcoholics Anonymous and fulfill the conditions of that program in your lives. One day you'll be like two oak trees. You will be big and strong and your branches will intertwine to the point where one can look up and not tell where one tree begins and the other ends. And that's a little flowery, but it is nevertheless the way we feel. We feel like sometimes it's hard to tell where one of us ends and the others begins. We're very proud of each other, you know, Polly and I. We admire each other. I've learned a lot from her I don't know what she's learned from me, I'll have to ask her but you know Polly is the kindest most non-judgmental person that I know I watch her sponsor a lot of people and work tirelessly on behalf of AA, that's what she does and I am very proud of her for that so let's look at the checklist for this checklist number one do I encourage and support my partner yes I do what is motivating me when I try to be all things to my partner well insecurity self-doubt, fear Can I hear God's voice when I am screaming at Polly? No. Do I allow my partner the dignity to fail? You bet. Sometimes we must be allowed the dignity to fail. Do I pretend to agree with my partner just to keep things going? Did you know you can't do that? And thinking that you can is delusional. You know, you cannot feign sincerity. There's a Hollywood movie producer long ago named Sam Goldman that said that, you know, sincerity is everything. If you can fake that, you've got it made. You can't fool people. You cannot pretend things like you think you can. I cannot pretend things i've learned that i can't pretend things like i used to you know i was talking to a guy sponsor the other day and he said well you know when she said that it just really made me mad but i didn't let her know him and i said of course you did what do you mean you didn't let her knowing she can't help but knowing you can't be around somebody that's angry without knowing they're angry i don't care how big the plastic smile on their face is You know, you know, happy energy is a lot different from angry energy. You can put whatever kind of goofy look on your face you want to. You know you cannot successfully live a life for any length of time without being found out. You just can't. People don't have to read your mail to know you're full of BS. All they have to do is be around you. You know? You just cant hide that stuff. You can't! so the next one is do I take responsibility for my own spiritual, emotional and physical needs and lastly am I in this relationship just to feel needed or loved you know sometimes that's what motivates us we just need to be needed and if that's what do you do what do you do? Here I am. I'm all tied up in this relationship because my partner needs me. You know, my whole life is resting on their need for me. What happens when they don't need me anymore? What happens to my life? It's in the toilet. It's over. So, you know, It's if you are in a relationship for anything less than an authentic or honest reason, it's not, well, it's opinion, but I don't think it's going to work. There, I said it. Number seven.