Dave E. – Step 11 and the Higher Power Fight – 2018

And I will just share, because I think this is a big part of my story, is that was a massive turning point in my sobriety. Because I found out that my child was going to be disabled. My firstborn child was going to be disabled. And I almost instantaneously broke from the program. Hello, friends of Bill W. and other friends. You have landed on Sober Speak. My name is John M. I am an alcoholic. We are glad you are all here, especially newcomers. Newcomers, that is, both to recovery as a whole and newcomers to our podcast, Sober Speak. Sober Speak is a podcast about recovery centered around the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. My job here on Sober Speak is simple. My job is to provide a platform for the amazing stories. The stories of recovery all around us. Consider Sober Speak, if you will, your meeting between meetings. Please remember, we do not speak for AA or any other 12-step community. We represent only ourselves. We are here to share our experience, strength, and hope with those who wish to come along for the ride. Take what you want and leave the rest behind. On our episode today, you are going to hear from Mr. David E. That was that clip that you heard at the beginning of this episode. And David is going to talk to us about his journey from a wannabe rock star to the fourth row back, third chair in, in an AA meeting and all the twists and turns that it took for him to get to that point. So that's enough of that. Let's go ahead and dive into this episode. Hope you enjoyed Dave E. I sure did. Well, hello everybody. And we are sitting here with Mr. Dave E. Hello, Dave E. Hello. Does anybody ever call you Davey? I just thought about that. No. Well, yeah, actually my dad, my father calls me Davey. But is he doing it, I guess, your initial, your last name? Nope, he calls me Davey. A few folks from my past still call me Dave, just Dave. All right. We're glad you're here. So why don't you go ahead and identify yourself. And give your sobriety date if you choose, please. My name is David E. And my sobriety date, my last drink was January the 1st of 1998. 1998. So, by the way, do you like to go by Dave or David? Either one. Either works. Okay. I'm used to hearing your name as Dave, but I also hear it as David as well. So. Either one's fine. I just want to be appropriate. So Dave or David E. is sitting here with us today. Like he said, he's been sober since 1998. It's a miracle for guys like me and you, isn't it? No doubt. All right. Absolutely. Well, you know, I want to talk to you. We had a really brief conversation before we started this. And I was not playing. I'm talking about it. Didn't even know about it. But you had mentioned, because I was kind of talking, I was talking to Dave about some of the equipment and, you know, the sound that we have set up here in the Sober Speak Studios. Sober Speak Studios is a guest bedroom in my house. So we were talking about that. And Dave mentioned that he was in a band, which I did not know. And so I kind of want to start there. And I'm assuming it probably contributed to some of your story and recovery. So what kind of band were you in, Dave? It has quite a bit to do with my story, actually. Well, I started in the sixth grade when we had to make choices of what musical direction we were going to go. I was fascinated by the orchestra. So I started out actually playing classical music on the standup bass. And is that here in the, did you grow up in the Texas area? I did. I grew up in Plano, went to elementary school in Plano, and then moved to McKinney in, right during junior high in eighth grade. So I started playing the orchestra in sixth grade. And I didn't think that was cool enough. So I took up the electric bass, wanted to be a rock star, and played that, played in a couple of little cover bands in high school. What cover band? What were you? The first band I ever played in was called Harmonic Rage. What? What? And it was the 90s. So we were, I don't know, we covered Pearl Jam and Soundgarden, your typical Seattle scene. God. And that was... Is that grunge? I get it. That's what they call it. The Seattle grunge scene. Yeah. And the drummer of that band actually had tried out for a metal band here out of Dallas, and they were looking for a bass player. And so I went and tried out for the band and got hired in my senior year in high school. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you Yeah. of our we didn't get paid well we got paid to do some of the gigs but the majority of them at the end of the night when it when it came to time to settle our bar tab we actually usually ended up owing the bars money so that was uh you know i was i was 18 years old playing in a band and getting paid in booze so man it was pretty awesome sounds like a dream job it was fantastic it was awesome yeah i played uh played all over well over dfw area um a couple of shows in oklahoma and a couple in louisiana did you play original songs or were they oh yeah oh yeah we were yeah we had uh put out a couple of tapes at the time believe it or not they still made those and uh yeah so i have i've been in a few recording studios okay so i'm sure like you said there was a lot of drinking going on did you were you drinking before you actually joined the band what what age did you start drinking i i have uh a band by no means their fault but i have two older brothers much older than i am so they were doing the college you know the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the years when i was in junior high uh and i was introduced to alcohol at a pretty young age uh i think that well the first time the first memory i ever have of drinking alcohol i was two years old um but that was i stole a sip of my dad's coors light and that's wow you can remember that that's barely alcohol at all oh yeah i remember it very vividly my dad lived in a house off of uh down in lakewood right off of white rock lake and i i could still draw you a picture of the house i i think i don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing i hear about blackout drunks and and uh i also hear about people who forget their past and i think one of my curses is i have too good of a memory i remember every little detail of everything i've ever done so right i'm not a sometimes i wish i could forget yeah i had buddies in my high school that could remember they can remember everything i did and the way they describe it i mean you could tell i mean this is very accurate and i'll go oh yeah i did that and so they're able to explain things to me that i was doing when i was crazy you're one of those guys that's right i'm not a blackout drunk and i also hear about people who forget their past and i just an incredible memory i remember all the things but i can't remember dates to save my life it drives my wife crazy i rely on her for everyone's birthdays and anniversaries and such so i'm terrible at that but i i have i have very vivid memories of my first drinking um that was my first time i ever tried it uh it was a weekend at my dad's house but it was a sip of coors light and uh when you say a weekend at your dad's house does that mean that you're were your parents my parents my parents divorced when i was six months old yep and uh my mom lived in plano my my childhood home was in plano and then my dad lived in dallas yeah and for those of you who are listening in other areas those are those are basically suburbs of dallas that he's referring to there so okay so um so that was your first experience with alcohol take me more maybe into the teenage years what happened there i started really drinking pretty heavily uh i had uh i had an identity problem as a kid i was i was the little i was the youngest brother and i always wanted to be like my older brothers uh and i always compared myself to them and wasn't as good as as them like give me some examples academically and athletically both of my brother both my older brothers and i have a younger brother as well uh stepbrother but uh both my older brothers were very gifted athletes growing up and both very smart uh just kind of naturally things came to them um and i i just i had this identity thing as a kid always trying to to live up to who they were and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and be like them and uh when i couldn't uh i found i found cigarettes first i will never forget that my first experience with cigarettes was at uh was at collin creek mall in plano i think it's i think it's shut down now but uh these these really weird guys uh got onto the elevator you could still smoke back then in uh in retail stores uh and these two guys got on and they had on leather jackets and mohawks and studs in their jackets and all this and they were just really weird guys really really weird and one of the guys was smoking a cigarette and he had just been to the candy store and he opened up the bag of candy and asked me if i wanted a piece and i thought those were the coolest dudes i'd ever met and so i at that moment uh i tried to change my identity i think so really yeah i went home and i had a denim jacket and i ripped the sleeves out of it um and uh tried to be somebody i wasn't yeah i just tried to be cool you know and uh yeah so that was it my first um my first major experience was the first time i was in the city and i was that i started smoking cigarettes in about seventh grade uh and i met a girl in seventh grade her name was jill and i will never forget jill mad respect for jill uh she she knew how to sneak wine from her mom's uh liquor cabinet and uh we we snuck out and had a cigarette and a couple of sips of wine before seventh grade uh at uh at my middle school and then shortly thereafter um that was really just kind of a thing and i was like oh my god i'm gonna be a big fan of that kind of a kicking off point i think just trying to redefine myself and be somebody cool and my mom and my stepdad at the time had talked about moving getting away and uh so they talked about moving out to mckinney to a different town about 20 miles away and i saw it as an opportunity to just completely be who nobody else nobody knew me in mckinney i wasn't i wasn't my big brother's little brother there i was just myself and so i jumped all over the opportunity and uh my first day of aid i looked for the guys that looked like they were the biggest trouble and i decided to make them my friends and uh lo and behold one of those guys lived right across the street from the school stroke a lot yeah we used to we used to take the bus in every day to school we'd hop off the bus and run across the street to his apartment complex and raid his parents liquor cabinet because both of his parents worked for the city and they were always gone he woke himself up and took himself to school but he just had to walk right across the street so we would hop off the bus go over there and and start drinking before school and and that's kind of that's where i took off was eight was really around eighth grade eighth grade yeah okay so eighth grade you're uh really kind of uh getting into the drinking scene if you will yeah just trying to just trying to be cool somebody just trying to be somebody i wasn't right yep all right so take me a little forward from there so what what between eighth grade and when you hit when you hit the band were there any major like my parents as i told you were divorced and uh my mom and my stepdad and i always we had a rough time we never really connected so did you primarily live with your mom i did i spent my entire life with my mom until my sophomore year and uh my sophomore year high school i i went to live with my dad out in a tiny little town up and even further out uh and i mean it was i did not belong i had by that time i had uh decided to pierce my ears and uh i had shaved my head except for the front and i had to go to the bathroom and i had to go to the bathroom and i had to go to the bathroom and i had to go to the bathroom and i had to go to the bathroom and i had to go to the I was really trying to redefine myself. And my dad actually helped me dye my hair green. He said, if you want to look like an idiot, that's your business, which I love him for more than anything today. It helped me realize just what terrible decisions I can make. So I moved out with my dad, and there was really nothing to do out in that little town except to get in more trouble. And so I continued. And actually, what's really interesting, that was my first attempt at sobriety. I was 15 years old. Yeah, I was in a little bitty town, and I realized I had a serious problem. Because I drank, and I smoked, and I did whatever. I put anything in my body I could to not feel like me. I was constantly just trying to redefine myself as a young person. And I just wanted to be somebody, anybody that I wasn't. And so my new thing was, back then, Cherry Pepsi was a thing. And I don't even know if it's still an option anymore. But I would go to the stores. There was a little store. A little beer store right on 75 here. And it's shut down now, and rightfully so. But they'd sell to anybody. And so we would all drive down to that liquor store and buy our beers. I got into this weird phase that I thought that I was into malt liquor. So I used to buy 40s of malt liquor. And they would sell us a case. The case of malt liquor was 12 malt liquor bottles. And they would sell us 12 40s for $10. That was a great deal. That was a great deal. But one weekend, we went down there. And I just told my friends on our way down there, I was like, I'm going straight. I had seen, or actually, I had heard about a party down in Dallas. And it was these kids called Straight Edge. It was this big thing where all these kids were giving up booze, giving up drugs, giving up sex. They were just, everything they were doing was going straight edge. And I wanted, it was something I wasn't. So I wanted to try and be that, right? So I started buying six packs of Cherry Pepsi. And taking them to parties. And taking them to parties. And that lasted for a solid four months, I think. It was three or four months. I went to parties every weekend. And all I, it was, everybody knew. I mean, I was still smoking cigarettes. But I had my pack of cigarettes and my six pack of Cherry Pepsi. And that's how I was going to be. I was going to be straight edge for life. I almost got it tattooed on me. But I almost let a guy tattoo it on me with a guitar string. Thank God I did that. Can you tattoo with a guitar string? Oh, sure. You can tattoo with anything that's sharp enough. And if you've got the right amount of ink, I guess. Yeah, I almost let a guy tattoo straight edge for life on my arm. I'm so glad. So you got, so speaking of some tattoos, you have some tattoos on there. Are there any specific stories that you want to? I am covered head to toe. And actually, the majority of my tattoos I've gotten in sobriety. Really? Yeah. Okay. And so, you know, you all at home are not looking at Dave. But he's, I mean, it's like two, he's very, from the neck up, so to speak. He's very. He's very. He's very conservative, like, you know, kind of a straight edge. Very boring. Yeah, very boring. But then you see on his arms and such, you know, he's got some tattoos. So. I'm about, I think I'm about 70% covered. Really? Oh, sure. Well, I'm not going to show you. You're right. You're welcome for that. We'll keep it at that. I trust you. That's a good thing. Yeah. So. But most of them you've gotten in sobriety. Yeah, I got a few. So, like I said, that was my first. Attempt at sobriety. Trying to get back to the tattoo store. So, actually, I met a guy who was a tattoo artist that was in the program. And. This was after you got sober. This was my second attempt. No, no. This was my second attempt. So, I attempted sobriety at 15 years old. Realized it wasn't for me. I wanted. I couldn't. I couldn't escape me long enough being sober. So, I started drinking and drugging pretty heavily after that. It really. It just kind of. You know, I've always heard in meetings that when you take time off, it just kind of accumulates. The progression. And it definitely progressed with me. It hit. I dove in head first. And. So, you know, that was around 15. Started drinking again. Moved back. I couldn't handle the small town living. It just was. I did not fit in at all. And so, I moved back in with my mom and my stepdad. And. Lived there for. My junior year. And. It was a. It was a really rough time. We just. We. We do not. We did not click. My mom and my stepdad have since divorced. But. We just. That's never been a very good dynamic there. So. My summer of my. Between my junior and senior year of high school. I started working at a country club. I was bussing tables at a country club. And I met this dude that lived. He was 22 years old. His name was Steven. And he lived in an airplane house. And. He lived in an airplane hangar. Right out here at McKinney Airport. And. His grandfather managed the airport. And had taken. Three or four of the units. And actually converted them into homes on the inside. And I was telling him about how much I. Was not a big fan of my home life. And. Just really looking for a way out. And he said. Man. Why don't you move in with us? So. The summer before my senior year of high school. I moved out of my house. And moved into an airplane hangar. And. And. That was amazing. That was the. That was the ball. I was. I was a very, very popular guy. My senior year of high school. I can. I can just put it that way. So. Yeah. I mean. I mean. That's. We're out in the middle of nowhere. In an airplane hangar. And. I mean. We. We threw some. Threw some amazing parties. But it. It definitely. I don't know that it escalated my drinking. I think my. My drinking was going to go whatever direction. It was going to go. Either way. But I. It escalated. It escalated my behaviors. Which. In my opinion. Led to. The escalation of my drinking. If that makes sense. It does. Yeah. I had. I was given far too many opportunities. For a young person. You know. I was in high school. I. I was. I was able to take advantage of. Friends. Of girls. Of whatever. Because of the. I mean. I. I had my own place. I had. I had all the freedoms that every kid thinks that they want. You know. And. My rent was. It was a hundred dollars total. Okay. It's all he wanted. And my bedroom. My bedroom was actually. The. The door that opened for airplanes to come in. So. My bedroom was 20 feet wide. By 50 feet. Long. By. With 40 foot ceilings in it. It was pretty fantastic. I had indoor. Outdoor carpet. In my bedroom. I had a water bed. A fireplace. My band. Your band. Yeah. My band. We would. Perfect. We would jam out of my house. I mean. It was. It was. It was pretty fantastic. And led to. Really bad decisions. And so. Yeah. It was. So. Yeah. So. I lived there. And it got really. I. By that point. I had been hired into. The real band. Not the. The cover band anymore. And so. We were out doing. Gigs. And. You know. I was. I managed to graduate high school. Which was pretty awesome. Wow. I will never forget my. You know. Because. Believe it or not. This. This will probably shock you. But I was actually. A pretty intelligent. Young man. I had. I had some. I had taken some. Equivalency tests. And some scholarship opportunities. By the way. That doesn't shock me at all. I had taken some tests. In the seventh grade. For Duke. And actually. Gotten them. So. I've. I've lost all that now. So. You know. All. All the IQ. Has somehow. Just evaporated. Oh. I don't know about that. But my. My. The reason I say. I tell you that. Is because. My principal. My eighth grade principal. Actually followed us. Into high school. And so. As. As we. Left eighth grade. And moved into. To McKinney high school. He went with us. And I will never forget. He called me in. The first week of high school. And said. Hey listen. I. I know about your situation. Somehow it had gotten around. That I had moved out. And I was living on my own. He said. Look. If you'll just try. If you will just try. I will make sure. That you graduate high school. You know. And I did. I tried as best I could. But I mean. I. We were drinking at least. Six and a half. Out of seven days. I mean. We drank every day. And. Got to. You know. All my friends were older. Had my own place. And. But I got to walk the stage. I did graduate McKinney high school. Which was pretty awesome. By that point. The band was going fairly well. So. I had not applied. To a single. University. I had done nothing. As far as college was concerned. I had blown off. All those opportunities. I was just. I was determined at that point. In my life. To be a rock star. So. That's where I was headed. I'd grown my hair out. And dyed it purple. And pierced my nose. And. I. Had gotten. I had. By that point. I think I had two or three tattoos. So. You're going to be a rock star. That was it. Man. I was. I was bound and determined. All right. So. At some point. I'm assuming the rock star thing. Took a. Turn. Or. It took a major turn. Yeah. Well. You know. When you're. When you're an alcoholic. Like I am. And they're paying you in booze. There's no reason. Not to just. Stay drunk all the time. And that was what happened. I never practiced. I never. I was. I was there. Strictly for the attention. I mean. That was it. I. I wanted to be a rock star. Just so that people. You know. I. Like I said. My whole life. I was trying to define myself. So. I wanted. I wanted to be famous. But. One of the things. I think people don't pay attention to. In music. Is it's hard work. And you gotta. I mean. Gigging. Whether it's. Local shows. Or traveling at all. Any of that. And you gotta practice. It's. It's like. Athletics. Or. Business. Anything that you do. You have to. Constantly hone your craft. Or. Or you stand no chance. And I. I never did. I would show up for gigs. I would plug in. I would play to the best of my ability. But. It. It was pointless. Because. All I did. I was more interested in drinking. And girls. And that kind of stuff. Wasted potential. Right? Maybe. Probably. Probably a blessing in disguise. Honestly. But yeah. It was. Yeah. Everything that I had worked for. And. And gathered in music. I just. I let it all go. And actually. One of the things that happened. When I. When I actually got sober. Was I sold everything I own. I don't own a single piece of musical equipment. Really? Yeah. My oldest son is very musically talented. He doesn't do much with it. But he. He tinkers around with several instruments. But. I think he may have gotten that from me. I'm not sure. But. I have. I have no musical. Instruments whatsoever. Well. Maybe one day you'll pick it back up again. Sometimes. Who knows? Sometimes. My family is in the pawn business. And every now and then I'll go by the pawn shop. And pick up a bass. And start slapping on it. But. Yeah. I don't know. We'll see. I like to leave the past. It may be better. I don't regret it. But I'm glad. It's back there. So. Okay. So take me a little forward. Sure. So you. So I don't know. What year was that when you were. You know. Like graduating high school. I graduated high school in 94. Okay. Start. So you had four more years of drinking after that. I did. I did. I. So I. I moved. I actually got kicked out of that band. They made a decision that. And rightfully so. I was. I was contributing nothing to it. So. They kicked me out of the band. And. I moved in. To a house. Down. Down in Dallas. Down on lower Greenville. And. I had. I moved in. And. Well. Nobody knows who these people. So I moved in with a drug dealer. Yeah. Three strippers. Two cocktail waitresses. From the strip club. And two musicians. Who were dating. Two of the strippers. And a guy in the program. That was the first. There was a. A dude that lived there. That was a bartender. And he was the first guy. I'd ever met. That I had really met. In AA. And he talked to me. I mean. He hung out in that environment. But I always watched. How he. I only managed to live there. About 40 days. Before I couldn't handle it anymore. But. I tried out for a couple of other bands. I got hired into one. And then decided. I just. I couldn't do it at that time. I knew I needed a change in my life. And I had met this guy. That was in the program. And he. He talked to me about getting clean. And about what it had done for me. And I was like. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. And I thought. And I. I got to make some changes. And. So that was. 1995. And I packed up. Everything that I could. And I moved to Oregon. My oldest brother. Yeah. I just. I wanted to. Did you just like. Pick that off of a map? No. My oldest brother. Oh. Had. And his wife. So my. My oldest brother. And his wife. Went to school here. Went to university here. At Texas A&M. And do something different. That's a great area of the country. It's fantastic. So they moved up there. Ultimately. For her. To go to law school. And that was 28. Whatever that was. Years ago. They've been up there ever since. They've never come home. So they've. They've had two children. Raised them. And have sent both off to college. And. But I. I just. I called my brother up. And I said. Man. I need some help. I'm. I'm in bad shape. And. He said. We'll come up here. They were. Dirt broke. I mean. They lived in a little. Two bedroom apartment. In Salem, Oregon. They were putting her through. Through law school. And my brother is an architect. And he had gotten a job. At some architecture firm up there. But they were scraping by. And he said. Just come up here man. We'll. We'll figure it out. So. He's always. I mean. That's. That's just. He's. You know. Like I said. I spent my whole life. Trying to be like him. So. That's the kind of guy. He's always been. And. So I packed up. And I moved to Oregon. I threw everything. That I had. Into a. Suzuki Samurai. I jammed it full. And one of my. Close friends. Girl. Made the trip up there. With me. Just so I didn't have to. Drive it by myself. And. We drove. All the way. From Dallas. To Salem, Oregon. In a Suzuki Samurai. And it was. Absolutely miserable. It was horrible. And. I moved in with my brother. And shortly thereafter. What time of year? It wasn't summer. Was it? Yeah. Oh yeah. It was dead of summer. Oh it was summer. Oh yeah. No. No. I mean. We. I had air conditioning. If you want to put air quotes around that. But. So we drove all the way up there. Like two weeks later. One of the guitar players. In. From my old band. You know. I was. I was freaking out. I didn't know what to do. I knew I needed to clean up. And I was. I was white knuckling it. I still. He. The bartender from the house. Had told me about the program. But I was. I was thinking. Man. I'm so young. I'm just young. I'm too young. I don't. I'm too young to get sober. That was my idea. You know. I can't. All I need. I just got to quit drinking. I got to get it figured out. So it may be a change of environment. So I move up to Oregon. Called one of the guitar players. Who was. Still a good friend of mine. Had gotten in a horrible car wreck. So I looked for every reason I could. To come back. To Texas. I. I saved up. My brother actually scraped together. A couple of bucks. And bought me a bus pass. And all my stuff's now up in Oregon. I'd make the bus trip. All the way back to Texas. To see. To see my buddy. I think I went and saw him one time. At the hospital. Right. It was just. I was freaking out. That was the. That was the reality of it. However. Two of my best friends. Including. The girl that made the trip with me. That. That helped me get up there to Oregon. They. They were. Same boat. They were just. They were not as bad as I was. By any means. But they were looking for. A new life. And so. The three of us spent. The next three months. Saving up our pennies. And we all moved back to Oregon. Again. Again. I've made that trip six times. And I don't. I don't recommend that. So. Moved back to Oregon again. Still trying to clean up my life. By. By then. I had started. Drinking again. But I was controlling it. You know. That was my whole thing. I'm just. I'm going to pay attention to what I do. I'm going to control it. And. We will control. And enjoy our drinking. That's it. I. I did everything that I could. To be a normal. I mean. I wasn't even of drinking age yet. I still. I'm still not of drinking age. And I just wanted to be a normal drinker. But. But. My two friends and I moved back up to Oregon. And we got a little place. And. I was doing all right. I did all right for a while. And then. I really don't know. I got into the restaurant business. It was comfortable up there. And. And I. I had started drinking and partying pretty heavily. And actually. My. My older brother came back over again. And it was for my birthday. My birthday is in late August. And he said. Oh. We just missed. Wait a second. No. No. It's coming up here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's your birthday? Next Saturday. August 26th. Well. Happy birthday. By the way. By the time you. Hear this. We may be. We'll be past it. Yeah. Yeah. Well. That's fine. So. My brother actually came over. I invited my brother over to the house. It was. It was a very lonely birthday party. But it was myself. My two roommates. And my big brother. And he had never seen me drink. Well. He had seen me. That's not true. He had seen me drink. Because. I had. I actually. I'll rewind very quickly. And then I'll move past it. But I actually had my first bit of alcohol poisoning. When I went to see him. My little brother and I. In about a 30 minute span. Took down. A bottle of tequila. While my brother went to pick up his girlfriend. At the time. Who's now his wife. He left the house to go get her. And while he was gone. My little brother and I. Managed to take down an entire bottle of tequila. So that was my first bit of alcohol poisoning. That'll do it. Yeah. Since then. You know. And my brother had never seen me drinking. Other than that. But I asked my brother to come over. And just hang out with me while I drank. I don't know. Still don't know why to this day. And I sat in that apartment. And drank with my two roommates. And my brother. He had a couple of drinks. But my brother's completely. No. Never. I don't. He may have been drunk. Three times. In his life. I really don't know. But he watched us drink. He watched me drink. And smoke cigarettes. And I could just kind of tell. That it was a disappointment. I don't know if it was a disappointment. Just a concern. He was just worried about his little brother. And he told me that day. He said. Man. You know. I told him. I said. I think I need to quit drinking. I think I've got some problems. I need to quit drinking and smoking. And he said. I tell you what I'll do. It's the end of August. If you can make it through the end of the year. And I'm going to take your word for it. If you can make it through the end of the year. Without drinking. I'll give you a hundred dollars. And you know. He was still struggling. And trying to make his way there. In Oregon. And a hundred dollars. To me at the time. Was a ton. Right. And so I took the bet. And I was going to. I quit smoking cigarettes. And I quit drinking. Until January the first. And I will tell you that. So my birthday is August 26th. And I think from August 27th. Until January. Or until December 31st. All I thought about. Was what I was going to spend that hundred bucks on. Right. And it was going to be booze and cigarettes. Right. But I did it. And I stayed sober. For that entire time. And I did not smoke one cigarette. And on. On January the first. I was drinking and smoking. As if I had never quit. Right. And so. That was my. I guess my second attempt at sobriety. Yeah. Your second. Your second. Attempt at it. Okay. Let me just do this little break here. We'll continue our conversation with Dave. In just a moment. Just a reminder. You're listening to. Sober speak. You can find us on the world wide web. As sober speak. Dot com. There you'll find. I don't know. 30 ish or so. Other episodes. You can listen to for free. You can also find the donate button on our website. Which you can use. If you're moved to do such. Please keep in mind. This is a podcast funded by you. The listener. Sober speak is a self-supporting organization. Through our own contributions. We are not allied with any sect. Denomination. Politics. Organization. Or institution. We do not wish to engage in any controversy. Neither endorse nor oppose. Any. Causes. All right. Now back to Mr. Davey. All right. So you've gone through your second attempt at sobriety. This is probably 1996. 1997. 96. 96. All right. So take me from 96 to 98. If you can. Yeah. I'll get there pretty quickly. So 96. I. My. My. Same roommate. My. One of my best friends from high school. He introduced me to a girl. I met a girl in Oregon. And. There's always girls. There's always a girl. There's always a girl. And. He. He introduced me to a girl. And. I mean. It was love at first sight. We were crazy about each other. And. And pretty instantaneously. We. We just knew. It was. It was meant to be. Right. And. So. Lo and behold. I meet this girl in Oregon. She introduces me to two guys that are. That are about to start a new band. I go try out for the band. Because they're looking for a bass player. I got hired into the band. Awesome. Very excited. They tell me right after that. Hey. Great news. We're moving to Texas. We've got a couple of gigs already lined up in Austin. So we're going to Texas. So I pack up this little girl. She's 19 at the time. But again. We're madly in love. And it's going to last forever. Right. What were you probably? 22? 23? I was. I was 20. I was about to be 21. Okay. Got you. Still not of drinking age yet. But drinking like crazy. I mean. Just. And we got a few gigs down in Austin. We ended up moving to Austin. Got a few gigs in Austin. The band dissolved almost. I mean. Instantaneously. It was. It was. It was a nightmare. There was. The three of us. Living in a four bedroom apartment. And one of the rooms was our practice studio. And it was. It was a nightmare. And she was instantly homesick. So she and I moved back to Oregon. And. I had somewhat settled down by then. Because I thought I was all grown up. You know. I thought. This is the girl I was going to spend the rest of my life with. And all this mess. Anyways. Come home from work one day. And she said. We're. I'm too old. I'm too young for this. This is stupid. Like. You know. I'm not ready for this. I love you. But I'm not ready for this. And. I thought. Well. I didn't know what to think. I actually called one of my best drinking buddies from high school. And. He and I had been friends since junior high. And he said. Man. That's awesome. Great news. Because we're buying a house in Austin. So now I'm back in Oregon at this time. He's telling me to move back to Austin. Saved up my pennies. And that's what I did. I moved. I moved. Again. I moved. I moved. I moved. I moved. I moved. I moved. I am your classic case of if I'll just change my environment. Geographic changes. That's it. If I. If I can just do that. Or if I can just figure out what's wrong with me. I'll be fine. You know. Identify myself. So I moved to Austin. I'm now single. Don't care. This is July of 1997. So right before I had gotten sober. I moved down there. And it was. I mean. It was. Pedal to the metal. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. And. I mean. Three of my best drinking buddies from high. I mean, we had partied together all through high school. All at the airplane hangar. These are guys that I had made some really bad decisions with my whole life. One of the guys I have known since third grade. And now we're all living in a house in South Austin. And the guy to Ar. like off of Riverside. we were down, we were down on the alphabet streets. I lived on Harley Hill Lane. that's all I remember and it wasす Cinema was a перек verse And it was south of William Cannon tryingra 코로나 Hui was at work. So far south Austin. The guy that lived, if you're facing our house, the guy to the left of us was just an old hippie pothead. And he said, I don't care what you guys do. I don't care. Just invite me over to your parties. And then two houses down from us was, I mean, I know that God does things in funny ways. I believe that wholeheartedly. But this was almost like so funny. It was tragic. It was a sober house for young girls. Two houses down from us. And all of the girls in there were recovering heroin addicts. That's a horrible, those poor girls. I mean, it was a horrible thing. But we threw parties and these girls would sneak out almost every night. It was terrible. Right. I came home for Christmas break that year. I was still attempting. I had attempted to go back to college. I was going to community college and taking some courses. The only problem was at that time I was still in an identity crisis. And I thought that I wanted to somehow go into ministry. What kind of ministry? So, and I know... There's the funny question. We just took a corner there. Yeah, I did. Turned a corner. Most of my life is corners. And I know, just because of some other people that you know that I know, I know you were involved in some churches here in the area growing up. I was. Yeah, I was involved with some other members. I was a member of a group. I did lots of mission work as a child, as a young person. I used to travel down to Juarez, Mexico and build houses and churches down there. And it was a huge part of my life. I mean, all through the weirdness and the identity crisis, I never had a God issue. I always knew there was a God. I didn't know how to define him or her either. I was born and raised Methodist, which is barely religion at all. But I come from... My grandmother was diehard Southern Baptist. My little stepbrother that I mentioned earlier is Jewish, or was Jewish. He is recently converted to Christianity. Oh, that's an interesting story. It is an interesting story. But that's not your story to tell. Not my story to tell. I'll leave that. And one of my closest elementary school friends was Muslim. And so, I was always conflicted. I did not know. I had my grandmother telling me that unless I accepted Jesus, I was going to hell. And so, unfortunately, so was my little brother. Oh, yeah. And so, you know... And yet, I had some amazing people around me that came from all different religions and cultures in general. And so, I was always conflicted on that. I was always fascinated, though, by religion. So, you asked what in theology. Well, I didn't know. That was another problem. I came to a real crossroads. I was there because I was fascinated by the history of religion. But I... Just the academic... To this day, at 42 years old, I can't pick... I can't tell you what side to go to. I just can't. Okay. So, I got you off track there. So, you... No, no. So, you were considering... So, now you're thinking about ministry. Well, I'm considering it. Right. The problem is that I didn't know what direction to go. And my father was a school teacher. And basically, I had a conversation with him. And he said, you can either go into ministry or teaching. That's really your only options if you're going to pursue a theology degree. You can pick one of the two. That's kind of... And I didn't know which direction I wanted to go in ministry. I didn't... I couldn't define that. And so, I didn't... I had zero passion for that. I really only had passion for the history of it. And I knew I didn't want to be a teacher. There was... It just was not for me. And I don't know that anybody wants to look at this up at the pulpit on Sunday morning. So, you know, I... And at one point during school, I had come to a point and I went back up to re-register. And they essentially told me, you're not getting any more college credits until you start. And I didn't want math or... I didn't want any of that mess. I had no use for math or sciences or any of that stuff. And so, I dropped out of school. I just decided I was done with school. I... At the time, I was working as an auto mechanic. I had left the food business and gone into turning wrenches. And I was doing fairly well at it. And I came home for Christmas break of 1997. I came home for a little while. And again, trying to figure out who the heck I was. And it was a really necessary. And yet, a really... Weird journey for me. Because I came home. And all of these people that I had not seen in years. Because I had traveled to Oregon and Austin and all these places. All of these people from my past. You know, ex-friends, ex-girlfriends. All these people that I had kind of made my purpose in life were around. And I went on this crazy bender over Christmas. I started drinking December 22nd. December 22nd of 1997. And again, I unfortunately have very vivid memories of all of it. I came across six ex-girlfriends that I professed my dying love to. They were it for me. All six of them somehow. I don't know. I don't know how that works. But... And some friends that I had... That was actually, I guess, my first attempt at amends. I didn't even know what it was like. But I was trying to mend all these fences with all these people that I knew that I had kind of... Reeked havoc on. And taken advantage of throughout the years. And started drinking December 22nd. Drank all the way through New Year's Eve. And went on this crazy... I mean, it was... Really bad decisions were made. And I'm really glad that I'm still alive. Really, we started drinking on about the 30th. But the reason I tell that story is I got... I drove out... Drove out to my dad's house in the country. That I... That I lived at for one year. Drove all the way out there. Fell face first on the couch at about 5.30 in the morning. And it was literally like something out of a movie. As soon as I fell asleep, my dad flipped on the light. Said, okay, guys. Are you ready to go? And I had forgotten that we had plans to go to a football game. The Cotton Bowl. College football game. That morning. It was New Year's Day. January the 1st. And so... I didn't even shower. Nothing. I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt. Because that's what I... Somehow, I guess I'd gotten changed into these. My dad said, it's going to be pretty cold. You might want to put on something. No, I'm going to be fine. I'll know. I remember that game very vividly. It was horrible. Worst experience of my life. We actually left because the team that we were rooting for was getting destroyed. Who was... It was... My whole family is the Aggies. Okay. My whole family went to A&M. Well, majority of my family went to Texas A&M. And they were playing Tennessee that day. Gotcha. And Tennessee was known for their massive... Samoan line. And they just destroyed A&M that year. So, we left in about the third quarter. But prior to that, my cousin is who I... We were driving down to the game. And between my legs was a case or a 12-pack of Miller Lite. And it had been sitting back there for a while, I guess. And I was kind of starting to feel a little funny. And my cousin said, man, if you want... If you want one, you can have one. And I cracked open a Miller Lite. And I was drinking it. I will never forget this. I was about three sips into that disgusting, warm Miller Lite. And we are driving down Interstate 30 in Dallas, headed to the Cotton Bowl. And I rolled down the window and threw it out the window. And that's the last drink I've ever had in my life. And I didn't know it was the last drink. I just knew that I couldn't even swallow it. I couldn't handle it anymore. And I had more disgusting things. And warm Miller Lite in my body. But I just... I couldn't do it anymore. And I threw that beer out. So I apologize for the littering. But I threw half of a Miller Lite out on Interstate 30. I wonder what the statute of limitations is. I have no idea. Hopefully, this is not... You want me to bleep that out of the story? Just in case. Just bleep out the Interstate number. So went to the game. Left afterwards. My cousin and my uncle and my little brother... My little brother. Had a couple of drinks. Or had a drink apiece. But I just... I couldn't do it. And again, I didn't know that was my last drink. But I... That was January the 1st. January the 3rd, I drove back to Austin. Because I was moving back there. And I was preparing myself the whole way. I drove a little 1984 Toyota pickup. Barely had air conditioner in that as well. Well, you've upgraded from Suzuki. Oh, yeah. Substantially from the Samurai. Drove back to Austin. And I was practicing the whole way how I was going to talk to my roommates and tell them that I needed to change. I didn't know what was going on. I just knew that I had to make some changes. I walked in the door of the house on Harley Hill. And one of my buddies, the guy that primarily owned the house, he said... I walked in and he met me at the door. And he said, man, here's the deal. I'm going straight. He said, I've quit drinking. I'm going to Alcoholics Anonymous. I've kicked out the other two guys. They were growing. They were growing weed in their closets anyways. But he said, I've kicked those two guys out. They're done. And there's two guys that have moved in. They're both in the program. And if you want to stay, you're welcome. And if you don't, that's cool. You can go. Wow. He met me. So I had practiced this whole speech about how I needed to change my life. And God's a funny dude. But I walk in and that was what I was greeted with. And so I said, cool, man. And he's like, well, as a matter of fact, we're going to a meeting tonight. There are eight o'clock meetings. You want to go. Had you heard of AA before? I'd heard of it. I'd seen it in the movies. I knew what all you weirdos were into. You know, y'all smoke cigarettes and drink coffee at night. I've always, I still don't understand that one, but that's okay. No, I didn't. I didn't go to a meeting. I said, no, it's cool. I'm just, I appreciate it, but it's cool. These two guys come downstairs. Well, Terrence and Mike were their names. And they've, they've over the years given me from it. Mike was actually my first sponsor. And he said, Hey man, we're going to a meeting. You want to go? I said, no. The way that I was going to get clean was I had discovered NHL 92 on, on Sega Genesis. I was going to, I was going to get sober through video games. That was how I was going to spend my nights. I was going to go to work all day. And then at nighttime, I was going to play video games and just, and just hole up in the house. Just occupy your time. That was how I was going to do it. And every night they would come down. Hey man, we're going to a meeting. You want to go? No, I'm good, man. Thanks. Okay. We'll see you later. And they would leave, you know, about seven 30. Cause the meetings there were from eight to nine. They would leave about seven 30 and they would come home about midnight, one o'clock every night. And I was like, man, what are y'all, what are y'all doing? And then finally Mike came down on January the 7th was my first meeting. He said, we're going to a meeting. You want to go? So no, I don't, I don't think so, man. Same thing. I was right there playing my video games. And he said, uh, he said, man, you really should go with us. You're probably not an awkward person. You're probably not an alcoholic, but you should go with us. Just go hang out with us. Afterwards we go get coffee. It's cool. We go down to six street, which is where everybody used to go party. There's a cool little coffee shop down on six street. We go down there and that's, we, we just hang out, man. We played a backgammon and chess. And I was like, that sounds really stupid, but I'll go, I'll go, I'll go to a meeting. And, uh, I went to, uh, I went to my very first alcoholics anonymous meeting on January the 7th. My Spritey dates, January one, but I went to my first AA meeting on January the 7th of 1998. And I was like, man, I'm going to a meeting. Um, and I walked into this little house in South Austin. Um, we walked right through the house into the backyard. Everybody's out there smoking cigarettes. And, uh, uh, you know, I was still smoking at the time and, um, I go in and, and I, I will, you know, it's funny again, my, my, my pointless memory is I still remember the exact seat I sat in fourth row back third chair in, I will never forget it. And the reason I did is because I knew that I was going to have to get up and go smoke a cigarette. Cause this was going to, I, I don't like crowds of people. I've never been a crowds of people guy. Um, and so I knew that I was going to have to escape at some point, but I needed to remember cause I didn't want to look like a fool when I walked back in. Right. So fourth row back third chair in, I sat down, I counted it and they went around the room and introduced themselves. And it came to me and Mike, who again became my first sponsor said, you don't have to introduce yourself. You can just say, my name is David and I'm happy to be here. And I said, okay. And it came around to me. And when it did, I said, my name is David and I'm an alcoholic. And I, I mean, I just instantly started sweating and I started tearing up and, uh, Mike, I'll never forget it. Mike looks over and he's got real long, curly, kind of greasy hair. He was a carpenter dude, looks over at him and he goes, yeah, you are. And I, I will, I'll never forget it. And we went around, you know, meeting, uh, meeting went really well. Tons of people came up to me afterwards. Hey man, really glad you're here. I'd gotten a desire chip. I'm really glad you're here. It's awesome, man. Hopefully we'll see you tomorrow. And I thought, I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. Holy crap. I found, I, I, I found my place. It was the first time I had gone. I had, I had claimed to be something and I, and it actually felt real. I knew that I was an alcoholic and this is my problem. And that night, uh, we went to the coffee shop, uh, played a game of chess with Mike. He destroyed me. Down on 6th street. Yep. Down on 6th street, little coffee shop on 6th street. Mike destroyed me in chess. And, uh, as we were talking, he said, man, if you want to come go back tomorrow, we'll do it. I'll go with you. And so I did. I did. And that night, um, at that, during that meeting, while we were sitting there, I leaned over and whispered to him. I said, man, I think I need you to be my sponsor. He said, you got it, man. We'll, we'll do it. And he, I mean, he buried my nose in the book and we went through it and I, I hate to read. It's like, it's one of my top three least favorite things to do. I just don't like it. I understand. My, my brain doesn't keep up. That's the problem is it just wanders. Um, but he told me to read this book. He said, read this. This chapter, you know, um, read, read Bill's story, doctor's opinion, and then we'll talk tomorrow. And he lived, I mean, he was my roommate. He lived right next to me, but he, he treated it like sponsorship, which was really cool. And, uh, we sat down and we wrote all in that book and, and, and, uh, we, we just, we started going nuts, man. I mean, he went, he went full bore into the book with me and I had found my place. Uh, it was, it was a really cool deal. And, uh, on January the 30th. This is, uh, on January the 30th, the other guy that was living with this came in and goes, man, we're going to a new group, found a new group. And I had just gotten accustomed to this little group, little tiny house in South Austin. He goes, we're going to a new group. I was like, man, I don't know. And he goes, they've got tons of hot chicks. I said, okay, that's a good sell. I mean, I'm at, I'm at a solid 30 days sober, right? I must be ready for that. But well, that was. He said, we've got to go over to this other group. Um, they've got all the hot chicks in South Austin. Oh no. I think I know what's coming next. Yeah. It turns out they were right. So, um, I walked into, to the meeting of, of AA and I walked, uh, I, it was, this place was massive. I mean, it fit like three times the amount of the little house that we went to. Right. And, uh, I walked in and, uh, I was the last thing that I was looking for at that time was girls. Cause I had finally. I realized, um, that where I belonged and that this was my group of people. And, um, yeah. And I, I, I happened to, uh, walk right past this amazing girl with, uh, I, again, stupid memory is she was wearing maroon combat boots, skin tight jeans with holes in the knees, uh, of horizontally striped t-shirt, her hair straight down, brown, straight hair coming out of a ginger man, uh, baseball cap. And I thought. A ginger man. Ginger man. It's a, it's a bar in Dallas. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Yeah. It's a bar in Dallas that she actually used to work at. So I walked past her and I thought, well, that's, that's just about the most amazing thing I've ever seen. And, uh, the, the very next night we were at a, uh, Mike and I pulled up in my Toyota, um, in front of, in, in front of the meeting hall. I'll, I'll, I'll leave the other part out. But in front of the meeting, I was like, oh, my God. I'm like, oh, my God. I'm like, oh, my God. I'm like, oh, my God. I'm like, oh, my God. In front of the meeting hall. And, uh, there's this girl, same girl standing out there. She's in this ridiculous red dress with her hair all curled up. And, and I, well, I can't leave it out. I have to be honest is I thought based on the way she was dressed that she, that she might not be interested in boys. And I thought that that was unfortunate because I thought she was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen. And, uh, but turns out, turns out she's in this amazing red dress and this guy comes walking out in a suit. And, and walks over to her and kind of puts his arm around her. And I thought, well, fantastic. And I told Mike that day, I said, I don't know who that girl in the red dress is, but I'm going to marry her. And he said, man, you're an idiot. You got no shot with that girl. I said, well, that's fine, but I'm going to find out who she is and I'm going to marry her. And, uh, yeah. And, uh, turns out I did. So I was right. So how long was it before you guys? So February, February the second, um, we were at the, at a, at the meeting. Yeah. And afterwards everyone was standing around. I hope she's cool with me. I don't know. She's fine with me sharing this. We were, everybody was standing around after the meeting and, uh, she is to this day, a huge fan of movies. And, um, we were trying to figure out something different to do after the meeting. And she said, Hey, let's go to a movie. Back then you had to look up the movies on the, in the newspaper. Right. So there's a 10, 15 tonight. Let's go to that after the meeting. And every group of us, there's about eight or 10 of us. Cool. We all piled in her suburban after the meeting. She had this gigantic. Ugly grace, but we called it Shamu. It was fantastic. It fit everybody. Shamu the suburban. And we all piled in her suburban, drove to the other side of Austin. Cause that's where the movie theater was. And, uh, anyways, we get out and we said, um, uh, we're here for the 10, 15 movie. And the lady said, Oh, it's a misprint. It was actually 10, 15 this morning. I'm thinking, I mean, I, here was my shot. Right. And, uh, anyways, um, yeah. So, uh, everybody's like, you know what? Forget it. Let's just go home. Well, and myself and the guy that I lived with that, that not my sponsor, but the guy, my best, my, my, my good buddy that I grew up with, um, he and this girl and I went, she's like, well, I'm, I'm hungry. Well, let's go get some dinner. So we went to this little Mexican food place in South Austin. And, um, yeah, that was, I guess, officially a kind of our first date. That was it. So we were, we were sitting around talking. Did you take Shamu to get there? We did. We drove, uh, we drove Shamu there. And she lived in a little apartment in South Austin. And he said, um, we were talking about relationships and all that. And it was, it was the first time I'd actually gotten honest about a relationship. You know, I was trying not to be silly and cheesy and pick up line-ish. And, um, I told her because I had the girl from Oregon and I had split up. Obviously I came back here to Texas and, and I said, you know, the main thing that I miss about, um, a relationship is just being able to hold and snuggle somebody. And this was the greatest pickup line in the world, if you ask me. But my now wife said, well, you can come over to my house and snuggle me. And so I went over to her house and we laid on the couch and we watched movies. And that was our first date. Was it accidentally because we did not get to go to a movie and we have saved one or two days. We have been together ever since. How about that? Yeah. I went to, uh. And so that, when did you all end up getting, um, officially married? Uh, we got married on August the 4th of 2000. And so I want to talk about your, I know you had a relationship. I know you had a relationship. I know you had a relationship. I know you had a relationship. You have a couple of kids. I do. So tell me just kind of, um, just tell me about your kids real quick because, uh, anyway, I just want to hear about that. Sure. Um, typical AA relationship, right? We had one or two great dates and we knew it was official. So, I mean, we, we literally, I talked to my sponsor cause I was very young in sobriety. Um, she did the same. She had nine months, uh, more than I do, or she has nine months more than I do. Um. Does she rub that in sometimes? No, not at all. She, she actually, she feels really bad about it cause she thought, she said that the way that I talked, she would have never guessed I was a newcomer. Um, and so she thought I had my stuff together and she's still figuring out I don't. Um, anyway, so we both asked our sponsors and both of them were, were real honest with us. You know, it's, it's very dangerous thing. If you put, if you put either one of you before you put God or sobriety, you're both in trouble. And, um, uh, so we took that very seriously. Uh, I think both of us did. Um, and. Um, so we, uh, we started dating, we moved in together. Uh, we were both from the Dallas area and we moved back here to Dallas. Um, right at, I had right at a year sober when we moved back and, um, we had kind of started a life together. We'd already decided we were going to get married, but we were trying to figure out how to go about that. And, um, on August the 10th of 1999, which is her birthday, August 10th is her birthday. Um, I called her on her birthday. A lot of stuff. What's happening in August? I mean, every, oh gosh, anniversaries, birthday, like crazy. August is a crazy month for us. Um, I will never forget. So I'm, I'm fairly newly sober. Both of us are really, um, we had just moved back to Dallas and kind of trying to get our stuff together. Um, I had taken on, I'd gotten a new sponsor cause I had moved here. Um, and so, um, I just called my sponsor. I was on my way home from work or I was actually on my way to a meeting from work, called my sponsor. Everything's going peachy. I'll see you. I'll see you at the meeting. I hang up the phone. I call her and I, to tell her happy birthday. I said, uh, Hey, happy birthday. And she said, I'm pregnant. And, uh, yeah. So that was, that was, uh, that's a big deal. Cause we're, we're not yet married. We're still both fairly new in sobriety. I mean, we, we had some time behind us, but, but you know, a year, just over a year and a year and a half and, uh, found out she was pregnant. And, um, Great. I mean, you know, it is what it is. We're good. God's got this thing, right? So we, we, we were, we were pumped. We were excited. Um, we went in at one point for a sonogram and, um, when we went in for the sonogram, there was a little bit of confusion. They couldn't quite figure out what it was anyways, long, long and short of it was, um, they, they felt like there might be some complications with the baby. And so, um, we went back in for a second sonogram and then they, they, they wanted, they, they had some theories about it. Long and short was that they, they had some theories, wanted to do some more testing, all that stuff, um, had originally, um, pre-diagnosed our unborn child with, with a condition called either trisomy 13 or trisomy 18, um, chromosomal disorders, both of which are, you know, uh, um, you know, um, you know, um, um, um, and then we went which are essentially terminal, not a very long lifespan, potential nine-month lifespan. So we're new in sobriety, we're not yet married, we're both young. I mean, I'm 23, she's 25 at the time. We were babies, and we're preparing for this. My youth pastor, he and I are still very close to this day, and we knew that he was going to marry us, and we were seeking counsel as far as the baby is concerned too. So we're having all these discussions with preachers and just all kinds of stuff. Anywho, turns out he did not have either one of those. He's 18 years old and alive and well today. But he was born with several conditions. And I will just share, because I think this is a big part of my story, is that was a massive turning point in my life. It was a turning point in my sobriety, because I found out that my child was going to be disabled, my firstborn child was going to be disabled. And I almost instantaneously broke from the program. I stopped going to meetings. Darrell Bock Really? Darrell Bock I denounced God. I was done. Darrell Bock So was you mad, angry? Darrell Bock It was nothing but anger. I was absolutely – and I think for the first time in my life, and I don't know if this justifies it, I wasn't on a pity pot for myself. I was angry for him. I didn't understand how she and I could be trying to get our lives together. And based on all of the chaos and destruction that I had caused, I felt in people's lives. And I was trying to do the right thing. And she was trying to do the right thing. And why not punish us? It almost felt like, why punish him? Why do this to this child? Darrell Bock And I denounced God. I was done. I was done with God. I was done with you people. I was done with AA. I stopped going to meetings. I went through a massive anger spell. It was – sadly, it was very, very necessary, I believe, for my recovery and very, very dangerous. Guys that I work with today, I'm very clear to share that part of my story with them because it was a very tough time. Darrell Bock Yeah. I can say that I know because I do believe that God speaks to me. And I know for a fact that if my wife had not stayed very, very close to the program – she's one of the best program people I've ever met – if she would have not stayed close, I may – we wouldn't have made it, there's no doubt. And I probably – I would have jumped ship and probably been dead by now. Darrell Bock Wow. Darrell Bock There's no doubt. So that was a big deal. Darrell Bock But it's kind of to – I mean, I think that's a big deal. Darrell Bock Yeah. Darrell Bock Yeah. Darrell Bock Yeah. Darrell Bock But this in perspective, like you said, you just recently, I believe you said you took him to college, right? Darrell Bock I took him to college, yeah. So my – the cool part, that's a four-hour story in and of itself. Darrell Bock Right. Darrell Bock But Christian is his name. That's my eldest son. He was born severely disabled. They told us that he would probably never walk. He was in wheelchair for a large part of his young life. Darrell Bock Yeah. Darrell Bock He does a lot of surgery and also other surgeries. But I am proud to announce that he actually is going to college in Colorado on a partial wrestling scholarship. So he is quite an accomplished wrestler. Very cool deal. He's going to a little D2 school, yeah, out in Grand Junction, Colorado. Darrell Bock Yeah. Darrell Bock And he starts class actually in two days from this recording. And yeah, he's made the wrestling team. So he's – shortest version possible. He found a team. impossible he found it in you know he was never able to compete never because of his his situation um but uh started wrestling just in high school just four years ago and is i don't want to say he's a phenom because he's definitely very beatable but he's he's pretty fantastic it's a it's a crazy miracle and uh he went out he went out and out to colorado and tried out for one of the coaches at one of their wrestling camps and got a got a call from personal call from the head coach on his cell phone two days after he got home from camp and and offered him a spot on the team so he is in colorado right now very nice yeah and and you know i went back my father was a teacher his that's all that's what he wants to do my son wants to be a high school history teacher and a wrestling coach oh wow that's he's going to school for history and and uh getting his education degree god works in mysterious ways it's as bizarre as it gets he's a funny dude like i say so yeah all right so and then you have another son we have we have a almost nine-year-old yeah um physically 100 he's he's wild man but yeah no no issues there we uh we decided our our eldest took required so much time and effort and energy that we were we were not going to do it again and then somewhere down the road as alcoholics do my wife said when when our oldest was about eight and a half she said i want another baby so wow by golly we did it so so we have two and he's he's he's crazy but he's he's fun man he's a blast yeah that's great he's giving you a run for your money oh there's no doubt yeah he's uh what he's supposed to do it's going to be very interesting having just him yeah but you know so i'll share this because i think it's it's a massive part um as far as the recovery side is concerned is you know i i i had this you talked about how god works in mysterious everything every miracle that i've ever had has it been in the rearview mirror right i mean i denounced god i was so how dare you do this to this child this this this disabled child and i do you know make him disabled so to speak and that that was how i felt uh and i had really gotten away from the the program john and and it was uh i just i wasn't doing meetings i wasn't doing i wasn't doing anything and and i uh i credit there there's a guy that's still a very close friend of mine that's still in the program and he started telling me about this little step that i was taking and i was like oh my god i'm not going to do this i'm not going to do this i'm not going to do this i'm not going to do this i'm not going to do this um that a friend of ours david g was doing and he said man it's just on saturdays it's one he's like you don't have to start going back to meetings just maybe go back to this meeting with me and uh just go on saturdays i go i kind of have to david's my sponsor he's making me go you know that kind of stuff i was like fine i'll go to one meeting this is stupid but i'll go to one meeting you know i got it i'm not drinking i'm fine right um i i credit that guy um can i use his name yeah bryce is his name yeah still very close friend oh yeah bryce yeah bryce yeah he's in uh he's in colorado colorado now yeah so bryce talked me into going back to a meeting um and i did i went i went back to this little step study with david g and it it i don't want to make it like it was just all that but but you know to keep the story short is that i credit it with saving my life i went back there and i and i refound my purpose i understood and you know i say all that to say i would never ask for a job i would never ask for a job i would never ask for a job for uh the the disabilities or any of that but i believe you know my wife jen and i we talk about this all the time 99 of what happens in our life is is because of sobriety and because of god and because of opportunity and the the doors and the people and the opportunities and all of that that has been opened because of christian situation right it's it's unbelievable i mean i again that's a whole nother four-hour story right but we've met countless people by happenstance that are in the program because my son is disabled we have been to places all over the world by chance because of that of the disability you know it's it's not something that you use and abuse but it's you look at these things and the opportunity i i was never a wrestler my father was never a wrestler we were baseball players you know we were tall lanky dudes and and and my son is that way but because of his situation you know man plans and god laughs right we said that's what i say all the time and i i had this plan for my children my children were going to grow up and they were going to be baseball players and they were going to go to university and they were going they were going to do all these things that i didn't do and they're and and what's crazy is i i took this opportunity in my life to to say how dare you do this to me and to him god how dare you do this when i broke off from the program and now all of those things that i wanted and for my children or at least for my firstborn so far are coming true because of what happened right you know it's it's it's sobriety is is the weirdest thing to me because we i at times that time in particular i treated it like almost like a privilege i treated it like a privilege and i treated it like i forgot i i just i just flat forgot what it was about right and and when bryce took me back to that meeting and and and started me back on the program and and it it kicked off this this phenomenon of craving for something better and bigger right and um you know today i today i i sponsor guys i'm back in i mean i've been back in the program for some time but i took i took a i don't know you ask my wife all right it's a different thing but i took a i took a i took a number but a long hiatus i took too long of a hiatus from that and thank god i didn't drink through all of that and i and i tell people all the time especially guys that i work with is i probably should have i probably should have because i was in a horrible mental spiritual emotional physical everything every state i could possibly be in was bad and i was literally just going through the motions and what i thought i was fighting for which was this this poor child i was i was wreaking new havoc on that right i was i was not a good father i was not a good husband you know i um i just wasn't there i i showed up every day i ate dinner with the family i did what i was supposed to do but i wasn't there because without the program i i don't i'm no good without this program i need one i need one of two solutions and that's alcohol or the program right and and alcohol for me just leads to the more of that chaos you know and so it's it's uh i think i think christian's a huge part of my story and his situation is massive and it and it i thank god every day it's a weird thing to say but i thank god every day for his situation because it helps me remember right yeah god bless you that is fantastic dave all right so we uh we've come to the end of our time uh i have enjoyed this i hope you did as well i did thank you uh um we uh just keep in mind folks that we welcome uh your feedback you can reach out to us really in a couple different ways go to the uh sober speak.com website click on the contact us tab and you can contact us actually a couple different ways you can email us at feedback at sober speak.com or you can actually leave a voice message just look for the uh little microphone on the website now you can't go over 90 seconds right so you can't go over 90 seconds right so you can't go over 90 seconds so don't come to us with a dissertation but you can leave a voicemail there uh let us give us any sort of feedback that you would like and if it's pg rated i can actually uh play it on the podcast so uh i'm gonna go ahead and end here with a something from uh the big book of alcoholics anonymous this is on page 164 of the big book it's the actual last two paragraphs the it says abandon yourself to god as you are and you will be saved by the power of god and you will be saved by you understand god admit your faults to him and to your fellows clear away the wreckage of your past give freely of what you find and join us we shall be with you in the fellowship of the spirit and you will surely meet some of us such as dave and myself as you trudge the road of happy destiny may god bless you and keep you until then once again mr dave thank you so much for stopping by thanks john goodbye goodbye you