Contempt Prior to Investigation Is My Favorite Line in the Whole Book Because It Got Me Off My Butt – Mike S.
About This Speaker Tape
Mike S. from Topeka, Kansas shares his story at a district holiday gathering in Neosho, Missouri with 26 years of sobriety. He opens with a raw portrait of his drinking years — a childhood where his father handed him a beer after accidentally killing the family dog and told him men don't cry, marriages destroyed by violence and neglect, kids who had to check his mood before deciding whether to hug him or hide. He choked his first wife, abandoned his children, and drank away grocery money on Friday nights. He got sober the first time in January 1988 but relapsed after 18 months and 7 days at a street dance when he traded a CO2 bottle for a pitcher of Coors.
His second attempt at sobriety began in a treatment center where a counselor wouldn't let him delay starting and wouldn't let him shield his children from the family program. His daughter read him a letter telling him exactly what he was. That crack in his wall, combined with finding the Live and Let Live home group at 2100 Central Park in Topeka, set him on a different path. He speaks with deep feeling about five sponsors across 26 years — Owen who taught him commitment, Gary who pulled him back from dying inside the rooms at four years sober, Harlan P. whose death broke his heart, and Dave who became his current sponsor the day he learned Harlan had passed.
Mike tells stories of grief and grace woven together — two sponsees who committed suicide, his sister-in-law Joyce who jumped off a bridge in Dallas with 19 years of sobriety, and his best friend Jason who died of a massive heart attack at 52 with nearly 20 years sober. Through each loss, the fellowship showed up in ways he calls miraculous, like calling a man in Joplin to get a phone number in Dallas and discovering the contact already sat in the same Sunday night meeting as the grieving husband. He credits AA with teaching him to be a father, a husband, and a man who keeps commitments. His 23-year-old daughter has never seen him drink. He walked his oldest down the aisle. His son, who he once thought would be in the penitentiary by 21, turned his life around. Mike closes with Herbert Spencer's line about contempt prior to investigation, calling it his favorite passage in the Big Book because it got him off his butt.
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Full Transcript
I'm Mike Sumter, I'm an alcoholic.
One of the actions I've taken in alcoholics now, I'm a loving God.
I found here in both sides sponsorship, I've been sober since June 10th of 1990.
It's going to be a tough...
One of the actions I've taken in alcoholics now, I'm a loving God.
I found here in both sides sponsorship, I've been sober since June 10th of 1990.
It's going to be a tough...
I'm Mike Sumter, I'm an alcoholic.
One of the actions I've taken in alcoholics now, I'm a loving God.
I found here in both sides sponsorship, I've been sober since June 10th of 1990.
It's going to be a tough talk.
I've had five sponsors in the last 26 years and three of them are in this room.
Owen was my first one and Gary was my third one and Dave got me by default.
And Harlan P. was a man that helped change my life.
And every time I've changed sponsors, it's never been about them, it's always been about me.
And I'm comfortable with any one of them.
The four that are still alive.
Harlan was the guy that, you know, when you talk about sponsorship, you pick the phone up and he says,
Hi, on the other end, I know everything's going to be okay.
And if you don't have that relationship with your sponsor, I hope you get it.
It's going to be really tough to embellish today.
I don't lie.
I got Dave here, I got Gary here, and I got Owen here.
And I got my wife here.
And she don't forget nothing.
I'm supposed to share in a general way what I was like, what happened, and what I'm like today.
Me and my wife just celebrated 28 years of marriage.
We've been together.
30.
And we've known each other probably 40 years now.
And how we came to meet, my first wife introduced us.
She was tired of me.
And, you know, I'm the guy that, you know, I don't know whether I grew up in an alcoholic home or not.
I know my dad liked to drink a lot.
And my first drink of alcohol, my dad gave me.
And what he had done, he'd run over and backed out of the garage,
go get some beer and he'd kill the dog.
And, you know, when you're a kid, you know, you cry, he hands you a beer and says,
drink this, and men don't cry.
And that's what I brought to Alcoholics Anonymous.
And I never wanted to be like my dad.
What I can tell you is I went way beyond what my dad ever did.
You know, my dad always made sure we had a roof over our head and we had food.
You know, and I'm that guy.
When I drink, everything else ceases to be important.
You know, and that was never my intent.
I'm just going to stop for one.
And then they'd have to send search parties for me.
I'm the guy that, when you walk in the house and your kids are looking at you to see if they can come hug you,
they need to run and hide.
You know, and I claim for a lot of years I've never hit a woman.
Choking don't count.
I don't.
And what I can tell you is I've done more damage with my mouth than I ever did with my hands on my family.
I'm the guy that when the hot water heater goes out, I don't fix it.
I'm the guy that when, you know, on Friday night and you get paid and you stop at the bar to have one
and there's no groceries in the house, I don't go home.
You know, I'm going to get my drug log out really quick.
The only bag of dope I ever bought my dog ate.
That's it.
You know.
I'm the guy that, you know, I grew up, I used to like to hunt a lot.
I used to have an old bird dog that, you know, had a tendency to jump out of the pen.
So I chained her in there and she jumps out and hangs herself.
I throw it in the trash can, you know.
You know.
You know, I'm the guy that we had that little dog that ate that bag of dope.
Fell down the stairs in the back part of our basement.
And it was just an old basement.
And, you know, crawled over in a corner and died.
You know, I was two years sober before I realized I'd found that sucker twice.
And the first time I found it was in December and the ground was froze.
I just left it lay.
Who lives like that?
You know, but when I'm drinking, everything else ceases to be important.
You know, my ex-wife caught me with another woman and she goes,
who's that?
And I'd go, you're a replacement.
I just had, you know, no feelings for anybody and anything when I drank.
And I never wanted to be that person.
What brought me to Alcoholics Anonymous was her.
You know, when I met her, she met all my requirements.
And we started our journey based on a lie.
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And she took me home and I've never left.
Yeah, oh, and we started this journey.
Yeah, I got sober the first time in January of 1988.
And my pain was, you know, it was, you know, I was in a lot of pain and I wasn't doing
But you know, I'm a man.
pain tolerance without sponsorship
working the steps of our home group is 18
months 7 days
and we were doing a little
street dance
about 15 miles
west of Topeka
and when she belonged to an
organization called America's Business Women's
Association
and we were selling pop
and there's a big Coors truck over here
and they're selling Coors
they run out of CO2 and we got plenty of CO2
and I traded
a bottle of CO2 for a pitcher of beer
and
I drank she cried
and
it just I'm not one
of them guys that have one drink and say
I made a mistake
I'm that guy that has a drink and I'm going to destroy
everything I ever cared about
she ends up asking
me to leave and
and I had had a
sponsor
the first 18 months
by name only
I could have picked him out of the phone book
just open it up
put your finger on it
that's the guy I'm going to use
they're not going to check
whether you got a sponsor or not
and my deal of Alcoholics Anonymous
went that first time
in Topeka
17 Collins used to be the big meeting
and it was a double header
and so I could go
and I could go to the
and I could go to the
on Saturday night
go to a meeting
and then have a speaker meeting
and then on Wednesday nights
when I was in treatment
that first time
you had to have three meetings
get your court card signed
and that was my deal of Alcoholics Anonymous
didn't want anything else to do with it
like I say I can do that
for about 18 months 7 days
and
I had met Owen at that time
and Owen had gotten sober
and I remember like it was yesterday
and I had met Owen at that time
and I remember like it was yesterday
we were going to a meeting in North Topeka
and we were driving over the Kansas Avenue bridge
there going over the river
or the 24 heading north
going to a meeting
and I told him
I'm doing this for you
because I don't need it
and he kind of gives you that look
and you kind of know you've messed up
so you start backtracking
what I can tell you is
he stays sober
I got drunk
and when I come back
I asked him to be my sponsor
and Owen taught me a lot about commitment
and that's been a big part of my sobriety
so anyway
I get drunk
she asked me to leave
I'm gone maybe a week
and don't get me wrong
I don't know how you guys are
but I know how I am as a man
and I had been fired from a job
didn't have a house
didn't have a car
and definitely didn't have a job
didn't have any money
and she had all that
and you know nice legs
so she met all the things I needed
and so we took up housekeeping
and you know in her story
she actually helped me fill out my divorce papers
you know which was nice
because I kept living the way I was living
I go back into treatment
what I did
I went in for an assessment
and I don't know many normal people
that go to a drug and alcohol counselor
for an assessment
that don't need to be in there
that's always kind of fascinated me
my grandmother died
and she was almost 100
I think she was three months short
I guarantee she never had that thought
that she might be alcoholic
anyway I go in for this assessment
and there was this guy in this treatment center
and if you just looked at him
you'd know he was a drug addict
and you knew we wouldn't get along
I knew he was one of them
you know he had a long ponytail
and he kind of leaned
and he ended up becoming one of my best friends
but he was a drug addict
and you could look at him and tell he was a drug addict
and
but what he did for me
I went out on Monday and I figured
I got alcoholic thinking
that it'd be a week before I had to start
so I had a week to really do what I needed to do
and anyway he said no you need to start tonight
and for some reason I said yes
and me and Nancy had gotten
I had gotten divorced and married by then
and they allowed your spouse
to go through this treatment center
and so I called her and said
well if I got to do this
so do you
and the answer she gave me was not the one I was looking for
and she said that's fine
what I can tell you about treatment center
it's a great
for me was a great place to be for about two days
you know when I go in that treatment center
and what I know is
I needed to be in the middle of Alcoholics Anonymous
and I went through that treatment center
and I was in there almost
every night it was open for the first two years I was sober
and I'd go in there before I'd go to a meeting
that's just what I did
and me and Dave became really good friends
which set a course of action that went on in my life
that changed my life
you know I can sit up here and I can tell you the war stories
and you know the stuff that we do when we're out there drinking
my first marriage I'd had two kids from my first marriage
and uh...
first time I went through treatment
they do that family afterwards
or the family week or whatever you want to call it
and I wouldn't let my kids participate
and this time I tried that same game with this guy
and he wouldn't let it play
and what happened is you know my kids got to write letters
and they got to read them to me
you know and my oldest is uh...
she's pretty blunt
and that's putting it mildly
and my youngest at that time
if it hits his head it comes out his mouth
so I had built up a wall
to get
what my son was going to say
and what happened was my daughter
told me exactly what I was
and uh...
it was not a pretty picture
but our relationship started healing a little bit
and it...
you know for me
I sit here and I think a lot about
my drinking years and uh...
it was not that bad in my mind
you know they'd just leave me alone
you know and I can remember when we went through treatment the first time
I knew Al-Anon had brainwashed Nancy
uh...
if she'd just quit that
and we could go back the way it was
everything would be okay
and uh...
in my life
in my eyes my life wasn't that bad
you know uh...
I couldn't pay child support
you know I couldn't pay rent
you know I couldn't pay my bills
you know uh...
I was raised kids were to be seen not heard
uh...
you know my kids got whipped a lot
when I was drinking
what I can tell you is they have not been touched
by me physically
since I've been sober
and that don't mean I don't want to
I go through treatment
and they uh...
this guy took us down to the hospital
down to a place called 2100 Central Park
Owen talked about it it's our clubhouse
and uh...
we went to a Thursday night speaker meeting
and there was something about that place
uh...
that uh...
kinda I caught fire a little bit
and I went back on a Sunday night and uh...
there was a group meeting there called Live and Let Live
and it was a bunch of young people and they were fired up
and they were having a good time in sobriety
and there was an attraction there for me
and uh...
from that day to this day that's been my home group
I've never felt the need to change
uh...
now the group's changed over the years
you know I was talking to Gary earlier
and uh...
we used to be a really young group
now we're getting to be a really old group
I think they're every age is probably 55
uh...
when I went through this treatment center
there was a guy named William R.
that uh...
had gotten a DUI while he was in treatment
and uh...
that still fascinates me to this day
and his wife threw him out
and uh...
for some reason uh...
he come and live with me and Nancy
and uh...
I'm probably sitting here today as a result of that
you know and uh...
I mean we would spend hours on hours
talking about alcoholics and all this
and talking about our lives and stuff we've done
over the years
uh...
William don't go to AA anymore
uh...
I do
you know uh...
our house became
AA
you know it was uh...
one of them deals that
I sit here and I think about
Joe sitting here coming over and
uh...
the enthusiasm he has for alcoholics
and on us now
and Dirk's the same way
uh...
where you know
every once in a while you catch one of them guys
that are on fire
and it's fun to watch because
when I got here I was willing to do whatever you guys
asked me to do
just don't make me go back out there
and uh...
I didn't know you could debate with a sponsor
until I started sponsoring guys
you know I was always
you know
you know go do this
okay
and uh...
so we got
we start this journey
and uh...
Al-Anon's
and I love them and I will never bad mouth them
but they got long memories
and Nancy said that I said
that I would do whatever it takes to have a baby
because she's
she had never been a mother
knowing what I know today
what length that meant
I don't know if I'd ever said that
we
you know remember I had a bisectomy
and
by the head bobbing I'm not the only guy in this room that's had one
uh...
but I can pretty well guarantee
I'm probably the only guy in this room that's had it reversed
and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy
and uh...
so we uh...
I just
makes me hurt just thinking about it
laughter
laughter
laughter
laughter
so I wouldn't recommend that to your worst enemy
well we do that and it doesn't work
and you know and
long and short of it
what I can tell you is
a woman can have a baby
with or without you
and they don't have to cheat to do it
uh...
we've got a 23 year old at the house now
that's never seen me drink
and the easiest way to say it
she's a test tube baby
and uh...
I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt
God gave me a chance to be a dad to a little one
because I wasn't a very good one to my first two
and you got to kind of watch what you pray for
and Nancy had prayed always to be a mother
and uh...
my ex-wife at that time
she's still my ex-wife
but at that time in our lives
had uh...
had called and our son was having a lot of trouble
and called and asked if we'd take him
because she had sat there and watched
how our lives have changed
by coming into Alcoholics Anonymous
and taking some action
and our lives were getting good
you know and she asked if we would take him
because you know
believe me when we got him
I think he was eight
I figured he'd be in the penitentiary
by the time he was 21
and uh...
and I watched
his life change
you know but uh...
she had way more patience than I had
and uh...
so she got to be
got an eight year old
got a brand new baby
and got a house full of kids
all at once
our oldest one's a whole other story
you know and uh...
I don't care
for me I don't
she still will always be my baby
I've had her sponsor picked out for years
uh...
she has her ups and downs
uh...
you know
and it's difficult for me
when you're working the steps
and you're trying to right some of them wrongs
and my side of the street with my kids
and my ex-wife are clean
my ex-mother-in-law
I used to have coffee with her every morning
when I was still out there
and when I got divorced
and in her mind I abandoned her
her daughter and my kids
and that's exactly what I did
she hated my guts
hated me
if looks could have killed
every time she seen me I would have died
but through bringing her grandson into our house
and raising him right
and giving him a good life
by the end
uh...
we were friends again
now we were never going to be like we were
but that side of my street was clean
and if she ever needed anything
she wasn't afraid to ask
you know so you go through this process
and you know
and our lives just start changing
start getting better
you know
and like I said I ended up in Live and Let Live
and it was an active group at that time
and we done a lot of stuff
and we
you know I've had a lot of jobs now
in Alcoholics Anonymous
or service commitments
I don't want
you know they're not jobs
they're opportunities for me
and uh
my first job
in Alcoholics Anonymous
was putting hot dogs
in a hot dog barn
on New Year's Eve
I thought it was a little beneath me
uh
uh
but I was grateful for the opportunity
and I've had the opportunity to
go down the service structure
in Alcoholics Anonymous
and uh
but when I really really think about
all the stuff I've done in service
it's probably the best job
and what it did
it's the first time I ever got out of myself
you know to be of service to somebody else
for fun and for free
you know and uh
and I got to meet everybody
and that's when the dance was huge
you know uh
somewhere along that line I met Mike
uh
he's got the second best home group
in our area
uh
like I say we did
you know we go through this process
and
and I've had the opportunity to sponsor
a lot of guys over the years
I got this big biker
and uh
I think I was six months sober
when he asked me to sponsor him
and I'll tell you what that did for me
so somebody comes up to you and you're new
and you got a little more time than they got
and they say will you sponsor me
you know my answer's always been yes
and I hadn't been all the way through the steps yet
but what Kurt did for me
he got me busy
cause you know his life was so desperate
that he was wanting to get through the steps to get his life
and it kept me going
and getting through these steps
and what I can tell you is uh
next month he'll celebrate 26 years of sobriety
we both stayed sober through all this
and he is not a guy that
that I would have got along with
my hair is about as long as it's ever been
and I mean he's got more tattoos
and I don't think his arms have ever seen a sleeve
uh
he's got a ponytail
and he is
pretty intimidating
uh
but he you know
we just did the deal
you know we worked the steps
and we both became members of Live and Let Live
and
and we go through
I was going through sobriety
I had been chairman of this conference
and I had been chairman of that conference
I was DCM
and I was just doing all the stuff
what I can tell you is
between four and five years of sobriety
I was dying inside the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous
and uh
I was doing the fluff
as I like to call it
and it's important
it's been
it's always been important
for me to be
be of service
but I forgot to do Alcoholics Anonymous
you know I forgot what my real purpose was
and uh
you know I didn't want to drink but you know
I didn't want to live either
and uh
and that's when I went to Gary
and asked Gary to be my sponsor
I had met Harlan
already
and Harlan scared me
now anybody from my area
that knows Gary
and knows Harlan
I should have been scared of Gary
uh
and we went along
and what Gary did for me
he got me back into Alcoholics Anonymous
you know and uh
you know got me back into the steps
and uh
got me back into working with guys
it's one thing to sponsor a lot of guys
uh
it's another thing to sponsor a lot of guys
you know it's easy to have a lot of guys
ask you to sponsor
and not do anything with them
and I've been one of them guys
that I can't sponsor over
one newcomer at a time
because if you're going to do it right
they take a lot of energy
they really do
if you're going to do them justice
it takes
commitment
to be able to take them through the steps
get them going
and I've had the opportunity to do that
and uh
you know when you hang around Alcoholics Anonymous very long
bad things are going to happen
inside the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous
Jeff just went through some tragedy
and uh
I sponsored
two guys that have committed suicide
uh
and that's tough
uh
but the good times way
outweigh the bad times
and you're going to have bad times
and we uh
we don't bring real well people here
you know
uh
and all I ever get to do is share my experience
and I can remember Nancy was uh
sponsoring this guy's wife
and I was
I was sponsoring
her husband at the time
and he kept going back out
kept going back out
and what I've come to realize for me
you know
I wouldn't let him go
you know
I kept trying
and what I've come to realize
he just couldn't hear what I was saying
and he was doing some stuff out there
that you know
that was just bad
and the easiest way to say it
he was separated from his wife
he laid down on an air mat that stuck his throat in there
and decided to pull the trigger
you know
the hard part
about that is
having to go tell his wife
having to go tell his son
you know
after the funeral on this
on Tim
we're getting ready to leave
and Tim had a five year old boy
and we're getting ready to leave
and he runs outside
and he says can I have a hug
you know
when my kid was five
and he wasn't going to nobody asking
and what told me Alcoholics Anonymous
and on and on working in his house
just wasn't working for Tim
you know
and we just move on
you know
you go through that
and you survive it
and as I go through
you know I'm coming up
coming down the server structure
and I'm doing the area stuff
and I've changed sponsors
when Harlan's 25th
AA birthday
and
me and Harlan's relationship
I had met him
at Sanger Law
with Clyde Jones
and Nancy's sister Joyce
we were all down there
and they used to do a four state round up down there
and then
I think I was probably a year sober at that time
maybe two
you know cause Kristen was just born
and Miss Jeannie stole our baby
so
so
we're going through this deal
I met Harlan
I was impressed with him
and anybody that ever met Harlan
you were going to be impressed with him
and
then I went to a
regional forum in St. Louis
with our delegate
at the time and I'd run into him again
and Gary sponsored me
I think at this time
and
I thought about him that I was attracted to
and
so we started building a relationship
and he used to go down
in the springtime to Ozark and spend time with him
and then it was his
25th anniversary and
the area assembly was that weekend
and they couldn't figure out how to
keep him in town that weekend
so I ended up
calling Harlan
and lying to him
telling him that I needed to
talk to him
and they threw a big party for him
and it was
I don't know how many people they had at the assembly
but most of them were at this party
and that started our relationship
and Harlan
had been a delegate
in Arkansas
and that
in all honesty had always been one of my goals
and
he just kept
I just kept going
you know
when I think a lot about me
and the service I've done
see I dropped out of high school
when I was 16 years old
joined the army when I was 17
not by my choice
my dad had found me a job
and that was it
and
so I
Marjorie talked a little bit about it
about feeling less than
I just had that feeling of less than
you know
growing up as a kid
we moved a lot
and when I talk about moving
I mean we might live in Topeka, Kansas
move to Portland, Oregon
Dallas, Texas
or anything in between
my kids had a ball
they found my old report cards there a few years ago
you know
D's and F's
D's and F's
D's and F's
so you know
you think about being a high school dropout
and the
ego you've got to have to want to be a delegate
but it was just
you know
it was just one of them
there was an attraction there about that
you know the delegates I've met over the years
and the
they carried themselves
and I don't think it was so much about being a delegate
it was I wanted to have that peace and
calmness that they seemed to have with them
and
anybody that
knows me knows I'm wound pretty tight
most of the time
so we
I'd met Harland
and we used to make trips
together
me, Dave, and Harland
we would go somewhere once a year
and uh
I think we're going to Amarillo, Texas
this is my payback, Dave
we're in a motel
and we're sharing rooms
we got Harland
we got me and Dave
and anybody that knows Harland
yeah
he come out of the bathroom in his skivvies rubbing his belly
he says which one of you two I get?
laughter
so me and Marjorie have something in common
we've both slept with Dave
laughter
he doesn't snuggle real well
laughter
and uh
Dave
is my current sponsor
and we had talked about that
and
when Harland passed away
literally broke my heart
literally broke my heart
you know
and I called
when I found out I called Dave
and I said Tague you're it
you know
and we have a relationship
you know
it's a different relationship
than I had with Harland
you know
but it's a good relationship
how long have I been talking?
I don't know
doesn't matter
you know what this means?
absolutely nothing
laughter
laughter
laughter
you know
and I've had
I'm going to talk a little bit about service
like I say
I've had the opportunity
to
be of service to alcoholics and all
you know
I asked Miss Jeannie earlier
what her panel number was
she's a past delegate for Al-Anon
Dave's past delegate
for Missouri
you guys are real fortunate
you got to hear your incoming delegate
yesterday
and she'll do a great job
uh
and that's a big deal
because you've got to give up a lot of time
laughter
and when you
when you come up to service structure
or you do service the way I was taught
if you say you're going to do it
you do it to the best of your ability
and if you can't don't take the job on
you know
everything of any value in my life today
I've learnt in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous
you know
you want to have a commitment to your wife
keep a commitment in AA
and there are times
when it's easy to stay home
you know
I can sit here and talk about going into the jails
and no one got me involved in that
and you know
I will always appreciate that
you know
and
I still have a hard time
when somebody says they're going to do something
and don't do it
just really gets under my skin
you know
because I know what it's done for me
you know
it taught me
by sitting in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous
to do life on life's terms
taught me to be a husband
you know
it's taught me to be a father
you know
I don't argue with my wife
period
because when I argue
I argue to win
and I will say whatever it takes
to win
regardless of the cost
you know
she's supposed to be my best friend
and she is
there was a time
I treated you guys better than I treated
my own family
I don't go to bed at night
feeling guilty
for something that I have done
you know
that's a long way from where I come from
but I have learned all that
from watching you
and listen to you
I sat in a meeting in Carbondale one night
and
we wanted to talk about relationships
I looked around the room. there
I went in there and I wanted advice from him.
And I just kind of went, okay.
But I just, I learned how to be a dad.
You know, my first two kids is, you know, my son calls me every day.
The relationship I have with my dad today, you know,
he's getting older.
You know, and I think, you know, when I think a lot about Harlan,
I think about, I wish I could have had that relationship with my dad
that I had the relationship with Harlan.
But my dad's from the old school.
I'm 60 years old.
You know, I can't ever remember telling my dad I loved him.
I can't ever remember my dad telling me he loved me.
But he's from that school.
His actions, he always made sure I had a roof
and food.
Food and clothes and all that deal.
You know, and that's his way of saying it.
But I built a relationship.
You know, go to your dad when you're doing your nice stuff
and tell him you weren't the son you were supposed to,
you know, that you should have been.
You know, but we've done that and we've, you know,
we've mended that side of the fence.
And, you know, we just, you know, I've got a good relationship.
Now, my mother's a whole other story.
She's crazy.
You know, but I love her.
And I'll do anything in the world for her.
I just can't participate in the craziness.
You know, and I remember when we first got together
and it was Halloween time.
My mom and dad had just gotten divorced
and she's in there trying to bad mouth my dad
and, you know, and alcoholics.
Mom, I love you and you're welcome to my house anytime,
but you've got to leave that stuff outside.
Yeah, he's my dad and I'm not picking sides.
And that's tough.
She comes back once a year, Christmas time.
And that's kind of it.
You know, and that's just the relationship we have.
I've got four siblings.
I don't have a lot to do with them.
And it's not that I don't love them.
My little sister is probably the one I have the most to do with.
But you guys have taught me all that,
that I don't have to play in the insanity
because I'm a mama's boy.
Whether I like it or not,
and she can suck me in just really fast,
so I just choose not to get sucked in.
As I said, tragic things happen at Alcoholics Anonymous.
My second year's delegate, Nancy's sister,
had followed me into Alcoholics Anonymous.
The first time.
Joyce was two weeks shy of 19 years sober
when she jumped off a bridge in Dallas, Texas
and killed herself.
So I think sometimes that we forget
that we're set in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous
and that person's suffering
might be that person sitting next to you with 19 years.
The miracle of Alcoholics Anonymous is
me and Dave and Harlan,
we've been running through the years
and Joyce had lived in Coffeyville
and moved to Tulsa
and they had moved to Dallas, Texas.
And the God I found inside the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous,
I had called Dave
because we had been in Tyler, Texas at a conference.
And to get a guy's name, I think lives in Dallas.
So I picked the phone up, called Dave
and he gives me this guy's name and he lives in Mesquite.
And I called Jim and I asked Jim,
I said, will you call Pete?
Which was Joyce's husband
and he was a member of Alcoholics Anonymous too.
And I explained what had happened
and asked him to call Pete.
He said, I don't know.
He said, I don't know what I can say, but I'll call him.
And here's the magic of God working in our lives.
Jim picks up the phone and calls Pete
and they get talking a little bit
and not only do they realize that they know each other,
but they sit in the same meeting on Sunday nights together.
You know, you take a guy from Pete, Kansas,
calls a guy from Joplin, Missouri
to get a phone number of a guy
and he calls Pete.
And he calls Pete.
And he calls Pete in Dallas, Texas
to call a guy that's wife's just committed suicide.
Where else will that happen
other than Alcoholics Anonymous?
And you pick that phone up
and you do the next right thing.
You know, and so I've got a loving God
and bad things are going to happen.
What I've come to realize for me is
God has answered every prayer I've ever prayed.
He just says no a lot.
And when He says no is when I've got to take the action.
When I've got to get busy.
In Alcoholics Anonymous.
And that's where a lot of my acceptance comes from.
I just lost one of my best friends.
He was 52 years old.
And I mean, if God ever put another man on this earth
that was like me, it was him.
I mean, we ate the same, we thought the same,
and we're both full of it.
And he's working in St. Louis
and I had talked to him that day
and Nancy was in St. Louis
and they were supposed to get together
and have dinner and his wife
had just went back to Gulfport
and he didn't call her that night
on a Monday night.
And didn't get a phone call.
Miss Susie didn't get a phone call the next morning.
And so she called the front desk.
And Jason was just a little bit short.
Sort of 20 years sobriety.
And he'd had a massive heart attack that night and died.
And it just breaks my heart.
And for somebody that come here
and didn't care about anything.
I don't know whether it's because I'm getting older
that I'm starting to get a little compassion.
Or you guys have taught me really well.
And we had to go through all that deal.
And Marger had her deal this summer.
Yeah, I had the opportunity
to go spend some time with Dave.
And, I couldn't have thought
of any place I'd rather been than there.
And it's just the life you guys have given me
like if.
me, I can never pay you back.
I'm going to go home this afternoon and try to catch
a little nap if I can talk her into driving. My home group
meets at 7 o'clock tonight. I will be there.
I had old timers that were in that group at that time. I've not
seen a Super Bowl since I've sobered up. The guys that
well, I didn't like Super Bowl that much before when I was drinking.
It was just an excuse.
They tell you, if you want to go watch
Super Bowl, next time you feel like drinking, call the NFL. That's the kind
of stuff I got when I got here. You taught me about commitment. You taught me
about living life on life's terms.
My life's good. I've got a 23-year-old
who's never seen me drink. I got to walk my oldest one down the aisle.
I got to give her a place.
I got a place to live when she got divorced.
I think about all that stuff. She's laying in the basement of the house and she's got my
grandbaby in her arms. Her life's in turmoil.
Turmoil. I go down there and I check on all my
kids when they're at home and open the door and see if they're doing okay. She's laying
in that bed and that grandbaby's laying in her arms. I know beyond a shadow of doubt
I am not the reason for her pain.
I'm just a little bit.
I might be able to help her. Then we bought her a house and moved her ass
out.
A little bit.
How do you ever pay that back?
For me,
don't say no. It's about
coming to Neosha, Missouri. There ain't any place I'd rather be right now than right here.
I know
a lot of you guys. My life goes way beyond my wildest dreams today.
I got three guys that helped shape my life
to what I've got today.
We got a new one coming up and they're starting to shape his life. I get to watch
him grow and change. I get to see Jeff. I get to see Mike.
Where else would I want to be?
A couple bucks in a basket.
Best thing that's ever happened to my life.
When I first got here, I wasn't a, no.
No thank you.
I'm not ashamed of being an alcoholic.
I don't go out and broadcast it.
I don't shut my phone off at night.
Worst thing I ever invented was caller ID.
You can see which group's calling you.
No, it's going to be the same thing
over and over
and over.
Over and over.
you know if i have anything to do is uh to say is you know find a home group get a commitment
keep your commitment uh be of service when my life's at its worst in my mind you know i've
been fortunate enough i sponsor a lot of guys i'll pick the phone up call it and say how are
you doing he goes fine you're not the one i need to talk to and dial the next one my life sucks
let's get some coffee you know because things are going to happen inside these rooms
but if you stay in the middle of alcoholics and honest it's kind of hard to fall off
you know harlan uses you know yeah you somewhere along the line you got to quit
straddling the fence i always figured you had to get off one side or another and harder to say
it'll cut you in two you know and it's little things like that that i had to pay attention to
you know i love alan on the married one but what i can tell you is they taught her not to
get her out of my way for i could do what i needed to do to get to you and there's all i got in life
that just absolutely goes beyond my mother-in-law likes me my current the other has passed
she thinks i'm the best son-in-law in the world
you know and and
that's as a result of what you guys have taught me
my little one is spoiled rotten
and she will continue to be as long as i'm above the ground and sober
i'll give them anything they want within reason
and then mom shuts me down
you know i love alcoholics and honest
and i love the life you've given me
the greatest gift you've given me is to stay teachable
when i become unteachable i'm gone
and just because i went down to service structure doesn't mean i know anything anymore than anybody
else
you know some people teach me what to do
some people teach me what not to do
and i've been on both sides that spectrum
you know the greatest gift you've given me is to stay teachable
some people teach me what not to do
and i've been on both sides that spectrum
the greatest gift you've given me is to stay teachable
gift is i stayed teachable i've stayed accountable whether it was owen dave gary i've had a great
weekend with gary and when them relationships have changed i've always made so my side the
street clean because it's kind of embarrassing when you change sponsors and you forget to tell
the other one it becomes real uncomfortable you know you start avoiding people and i don't avoid
people uh my life's good uh there's a sentence in the uh spiritual experience in the back of the
book and it's my favorite if anybody ever asked me to sign a book that's where it'll be
is by hubert spencer it says contempt prior to investigation and i had a lot of contempt
when i got here and as a result i've had a lot of investigation over the years and uh
that's probably my favorite part in the whole book for me because it got me off my butt i am
really grateful to be here dean and committee thank you for having me uh i've enjoyed it really
and i'll pass
One of the actions I've taken in alcoholics now, I'm a loving God.
I found here in both sides sponsorship, I've been sober since June 10th of 1990.
It's going to be a tough talk.
I've had five sponsors in the last 26 years and three of them are in this room.
Owen was my first one and Gary was my third one and Dave got me by default.
And Harlan P. was a man that helped change my life.
And every time I've changed sponsors, it's never been about them, it's always been about me.
And I'm comfortable with any one of them.
The four that are still alive.
Harlan was the guy that, you know, when you talk about sponsorship, you pick the phone up and he says,
Hi, on the other end, I know everything's going to be okay.
And if you don't have that relationship with your sponsor, I hope you get it.
It's going to be really tough to embellish today.
I don't lie.
I got Dave here, I got Gary here, and I got Owen here.
And I got my wife here.
And she don't forget nothing.
I'm supposed to share in a general way what I was like, what happened, and what I'm like today.
Me and my wife just celebrated 28 years of marriage.
We've been together.
30.
And we've known each other probably 40 years now.
And how we came to meet, my first wife introduced us.
She was tired of me.
And, you know, I'm the guy that, you know, I don't know whether I grew up in an alcoholic home or not.
I know my dad liked to drink a lot.
And my first drink of alcohol, my dad gave me.
And what he had done, he'd run over and backed out of the garage,
go get some beer and he'd kill the dog.
And, you know, when you're a kid, you know, you cry, he hands you a beer and says,
drink this, and men don't cry.
And that's what I brought to Alcoholics Anonymous.
And I never wanted to be like my dad.
What I can tell you is I went way beyond what my dad ever did.
You know, my dad always made sure we had a roof over our head and we had food.
You know, and I'm that guy.
When I drink, everything else ceases to be important.
You know, and that was never my intent.
I'm just going to stop for one.
And then they'd have to send search parties for me.
I'm the guy that, when you walk in the house and your kids are looking at you to see if they can come hug you,
they need to run and hide.
You know, and I claim for a lot of years I've never hit a woman.
Choking don't count.
I don't.
And what I can tell you is I've done more damage with my mouth than I ever did with my hands on my family.
I'm the guy that when the hot water heater goes out, I don't fix it.
I'm the guy that when, you know, on Friday night and you get paid and you stop at the bar to have one
and there's no groceries in the house, I don't go home.
You know, I'm going to get my drug log out really quick.
The only bag of dope I ever bought my dog ate.
That's it.
You know.
I'm the guy that, you know, I grew up, I used to like to hunt a lot.
I used to have an old bird dog that, you know, had a tendency to jump out of the pen.
So I chained her in there and she jumps out and hangs herself.
I throw it in the trash can, you know.
You know.
You know, I'm the guy that we had that little dog that ate that bag of dope.
Fell down the stairs in the back part of our basement.
And it was just an old basement.
And, you know, crawled over in a corner and died.
You know, I was two years sober before I realized I'd found that sucker twice.
And the first time I found it was in December and the ground was froze.
I just left it lay.
Who lives like that?
You know, but when I'm drinking, everything else ceases to be important.
You know, my ex-wife caught me with another woman and she goes,
who's that?
And I'd go, you're a replacement.
I just had, you know, no feelings for anybody and anything when I drank.
And I never wanted to be that person.
What brought me to Alcoholics Anonymous was her.
You know, when I met her, she met all my requirements.
And we started our journey based on a lie.
Okay.
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And she took me home and I've never left.
Yeah, oh, and we started this journey.
Yeah, I got sober the first time in January of 1988.
And my pain was, you know, it was, you know, I was in a lot of pain and I wasn't doing
But you know, I'm a man.
pain tolerance without sponsorship
working the steps of our home group is 18
months 7 days
and we were doing a little
street dance
about 15 miles
west of Topeka
and when she belonged to an
organization called America's Business Women's
Association
and we were selling pop
and there's a big Coors truck over here
and they're selling Coors
they run out of CO2 and we got plenty of CO2
and I traded
a bottle of CO2 for a pitcher of beer
and
I drank she cried
and
it just I'm not one
of them guys that have one drink and say
I made a mistake
I'm that guy that has a drink and I'm going to destroy
everything I ever cared about
she ends up asking
me to leave and
and I had had a
sponsor
the first 18 months
by name only
I could have picked him out of the phone book
just open it up
put your finger on it
that's the guy I'm going to use
they're not going to check
whether you got a sponsor or not
and my deal of Alcoholics Anonymous
went that first time
in Topeka
17 Collins used to be the big meeting
and it was a double header
and so I could go
and I could go to the
and I could go to the
on Saturday night
go to a meeting
and then have a speaker meeting
and then on Wednesday nights
when I was in treatment
that first time
you had to have three meetings
get your court card signed
and that was my deal of Alcoholics Anonymous
didn't want anything else to do with it
like I say I can do that
for about 18 months 7 days
and
I had met Owen at that time
and Owen had gotten sober
and I remember like it was yesterday
and I had met Owen at that time
and I remember like it was yesterday
we were going to a meeting in North Topeka
and we were driving over the Kansas Avenue bridge
there going over the river
or the 24 heading north
going to a meeting
and I told him
I'm doing this for you
because I don't need it
and he kind of gives you that look
and you kind of know you've messed up
so you start backtracking
what I can tell you is
he stays sober
I got drunk
and when I come back
I asked him to be my sponsor
and Owen taught me a lot about commitment
and that's been a big part of my sobriety
so anyway
I get drunk
she asked me to leave
I'm gone maybe a week
and don't get me wrong
I don't know how you guys are
but I know how I am as a man
and I had been fired from a job
didn't have a house
didn't have a car
and definitely didn't have a job
didn't have any money
and she had all that
and you know nice legs
so she met all the things I needed
and so we took up housekeeping
and you know in her story
she actually helped me fill out my divorce papers
you know which was nice
because I kept living the way I was living
I go back into treatment
what I did
I went in for an assessment
and I don't know many normal people
that go to a drug and alcohol counselor
for an assessment
that don't need to be in there
that's always kind of fascinated me
my grandmother died
and she was almost 100
I think she was three months short
I guarantee she never had that thought
that she might be alcoholic
anyway I go in for this assessment
and there was this guy in this treatment center
and if you just looked at him
you'd know he was a drug addict
and you knew we wouldn't get along
I knew he was one of them
you know he had a long ponytail
and he kind of leaned
and he ended up becoming one of my best friends
but he was a drug addict
and you could look at him and tell he was a drug addict
and
but what he did for me
I went out on Monday and I figured
I got alcoholic thinking
that it'd be a week before I had to start
so I had a week to really do what I needed to do
and anyway he said no you need to start tonight
and for some reason I said yes
and me and Nancy had gotten
I had gotten divorced and married by then
and they allowed your spouse
to go through this treatment center
and so I called her and said
well if I got to do this
so do you
and the answer she gave me was not the one I was looking for
and she said that's fine
what I can tell you about treatment center
it's a great
for me was a great place to be for about two days
you know when I go in that treatment center
and what I know is
I needed to be in the middle of Alcoholics Anonymous
and I went through that treatment center
and I was in there almost
every night it was open for the first two years I was sober
and I'd go in there before I'd go to a meeting
that's just what I did
and me and Dave became really good friends
which set a course of action that went on in my life
that changed my life
you know I can sit up here and I can tell you the war stories
and you know the stuff that we do when we're out there drinking
my first marriage I'd had two kids from my first marriage
and uh...
first time I went through treatment
they do that family afterwards
or the family week or whatever you want to call it
and I wouldn't let my kids participate
and this time I tried that same game with this guy
and he wouldn't let it play
and what happened is you know my kids got to write letters
and they got to read them to me
you know and my oldest is uh...
she's pretty blunt
and that's putting it mildly
and my youngest at that time
if it hits his head it comes out his mouth
so I had built up a wall
to get
what my son was going to say
and what happened was my daughter
told me exactly what I was
and uh...
it was not a pretty picture
but our relationship started healing a little bit
and it...
you know for me
I sit here and I think a lot about
my drinking years and uh...
it was not that bad in my mind
you know they'd just leave me alone
you know and I can remember when we went through treatment the first time
I knew Al-Anon had brainwashed Nancy
uh...
if she'd just quit that
and we could go back the way it was
everything would be okay
and uh...
in my life
in my eyes my life wasn't that bad
you know uh...
I couldn't pay child support
you know I couldn't pay rent
you know I couldn't pay my bills
you know uh...
I was raised kids were to be seen not heard
uh...
you know my kids got whipped a lot
when I was drinking
what I can tell you is they have not been touched
by me physically
since I've been sober
and that don't mean I don't want to
I go through treatment
and they uh...
this guy took us down to the hospital
down to a place called 2100 Central Park
Owen talked about it it's our clubhouse
and uh...
we went to a Thursday night speaker meeting
and there was something about that place
uh...
that uh...
kinda I caught fire a little bit
and I went back on a Sunday night and uh...
there was a group meeting there called Live and Let Live
and it was a bunch of young people and they were fired up
and they were having a good time in sobriety
and there was an attraction there for me
and uh...
from that day to this day that's been my home group
I've never felt the need to change
uh...
now the group's changed over the years
you know I was talking to Gary earlier
and uh...
we used to be a really young group
now we're getting to be a really old group
I think they're every age is probably 55
uh...
when I went through this treatment center
there was a guy named William R.
that uh...
had gotten a DUI while he was in treatment
and uh...
that still fascinates me to this day
and his wife threw him out
and uh...
for some reason uh...
he come and live with me and Nancy
and uh...
I'm probably sitting here today as a result of that
you know and uh...
I mean we would spend hours on hours
talking about alcoholics and all this
and talking about our lives and stuff we've done
over the years
uh...
William don't go to AA anymore
uh...
I do
you know uh...
our house became
AA
you know it was uh...
one of them deals that
I sit here and I think about
Joe sitting here coming over and
uh...
the enthusiasm he has for alcoholics
and on us now
and Dirk's the same way
uh...
where you know
every once in a while you catch one of them guys
that are on fire
and it's fun to watch because
when I got here I was willing to do whatever you guys
asked me to do
just don't make me go back out there
and uh...
I didn't know you could debate with a sponsor
until I started sponsoring guys
you know I was always
you know
you know go do this
okay
and uh...
so we got
we start this journey
and uh...
Al-Anon's
and I love them and I will never bad mouth them
but they got long memories
and Nancy said that I said
that I would do whatever it takes to have a baby
because she's
she had never been a mother
knowing what I know today
what length that meant
I don't know if I'd ever said that
we
you know remember I had a bisectomy
and
by the head bobbing I'm not the only guy in this room that's had one
uh...
but I can pretty well guarantee
I'm probably the only guy in this room that's had it reversed
and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy
and uh...
so we uh...
I just
makes me hurt just thinking about it
laughter
laughter
laughter
laughter
so I wouldn't recommend that to your worst enemy
well we do that and it doesn't work
and you know and
long and short of it
what I can tell you is
a woman can have a baby
with or without you
and they don't have to cheat to do it
uh...
we've got a 23 year old at the house now
that's never seen me drink
and the easiest way to say it
she's a test tube baby
and uh...
I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt
God gave me a chance to be a dad to a little one
because I wasn't a very good one to my first two
and you got to kind of watch what you pray for
and Nancy had prayed always to be a mother
and uh...
my ex-wife at that time
she's still my ex-wife
but at that time in our lives
had uh...
had called and our son was having a lot of trouble
and called and asked if we'd take him
because she had sat there and watched
how our lives have changed
by coming into Alcoholics Anonymous
and taking some action
and our lives were getting good
you know and she asked if we would take him
because you know
believe me when we got him
I think he was eight
I figured he'd be in the penitentiary
by the time he was 21
and uh...
and I watched
his life change
you know but uh...
she had way more patience than I had
and uh...
so she got to be
got an eight year old
got a brand new baby
and got a house full of kids
all at once
our oldest one's a whole other story
you know and uh...
I don't care
for me I don't
she still will always be my baby
I've had her sponsor picked out for years
uh...
she has her ups and downs
uh...
you know
and it's difficult for me
when you're working the steps
and you're trying to right some of them wrongs
and my side of the street with my kids
and my ex-wife are clean
my ex-mother-in-law
I used to have coffee with her every morning
when I was still out there
and when I got divorced
and in her mind I abandoned her
her daughter and my kids
and that's exactly what I did
she hated my guts
hated me
if looks could have killed
every time she seen me I would have died
but through bringing her grandson into our house
and raising him right
and giving him a good life
by the end
uh...
we were friends again
now we were never going to be like we were
but that side of my street was clean
and if she ever needed anything
she wasn't afraid to ask
you know so you go through this process
and you know
and our lives just start changing
start getting better
you know
and like I said I ended up in Live and Let Live
and it was an active group at that time
and we done a lot of stuff
and we
you know I've had a lot of jobs now
in Alcoholics Anonymous
or service commitments
I don't want
you know they're not jobs
they're opportunities for me
and uh
my first job
in Alcoholics Anonymous
was putting hot dogs
in a hot dog barn
on New Year's Eve
I thought it was a little beneath me
uh
uh
but I was grateful for the opportunity
and I've had the opportunity to
go down the service structure
in Alcoholics Anonymous
and uh
but when I really really think about
all the stuff I've done in service
it's probably the best job
and what it did
it's the first time I ever got out of myself
you know to be of service to somebody else
for fun and for free
you know and uh
and I got to meet everybody
and that's when the dance was huge
you know uh
somewhere along that line I met Mike
uh
he's got the second best home group
in our area
uh
like I say we did
you know we go through this process
and
and I've had the opportunity to sponsor
a lot of guys over the years
I got this big biker
and uh
I think I was six months sober
when he asked me to sponsor him
and I'll tell you what that did for me
so somebody comes up to you and you're new
and you got a little more time than they got
and they say will you sponsor me
you know my answer's always been yes
and I hadn't been all the way through the steps yet
but what Kurt did for me
he got me busy
cause you know his life was so desperate
that he was wanting to get through the steps to get his life
and it kept me going
and getting through these steps
and what I can tell you is uh
next month he'll celebrate 26 years of sobriety
we both stayed sober through all this
and he is not a guy that
that I would have got along with
my hair is about as long as it's ever been
and I mean he's got more tattoos
and I don't think his arms have ever seen a sleeve
uh
he's got a ponytail
and he is
pretty intimidating
uh
but he you know
we just did the deal
you know we worked the steps
and we both became members of Live and Let Live
and
and we go through
I was going through sobriety
I had been chairman of this conference
and I had been chairman of that conference
I was DCM
and I was just doing all the stuff
what I can tell you is
between four and five years of sobriety
I was dying inside the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous
and uh
I was doing the fluff
as I like to call it
and it's important
it's been
it's always been important
for me to be
be of service
but I forgot to do Alcoholics Anonymous
you know I forgot what my real purpose was
and uh
you know I didn't want to drink but you know
I didn't want to live either
and uh
and that's when I went to Gary
and asked Gary to be my sponsor
I had met Harlan
already
and Harlan scared me
now anybody from my area
that knows Gary
and knows Harlan
I should have been scared of Gary
uh
and we went along
and what Gary did for me
he got me back into Alcoholics Anonymous
you know and uh
you know got me back into the steps
and uh
got me back into working with guys
it's one thing to sponsor a lot of guys
uh
it's another thing to sponsor a lot of guys
you know it's easy to have a lot of guys
ask you to sponsor
and not do anything with them
and I've been one of them guys
that I can't sponsor over
one newcomer at a time
because if you're going to do it right
they take a lot of energy
they really do
if you're going to do them justice
it takes
commitment
to be able to take them through the steps
get them going
and I've had the opportunity to do that
and uh
you know when you hang around Alcoholics Anonymous very long
bad things are going to happen
inside the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous
Jeff just went through some tragedy
and uh
I sponsored
two guys that have committed suicide
uh
and that's tough
uh
but the good times way
outweigh the bad times
and you're going to have bad times
and we uh
we don't bring real well people here
you know
uh
and all I ever get to do is share my experience
and I can remember Nancy was uh
sponsoring this guy's wife
and I was
I was sponsoring
her husband at the time
and he kept going back out
kept going back out
and what I've come to realize for me
you know
I wouldn't let him go
you know
I kept trying
and what I've come to realize
he just couldn't hear what I was saying
and he was doing some stuff out there
that you know
that was just bad
and the easiest way to say it
he was separated from his wife
he laid down on an air mat that stuck his throat in there
and decided to pull the trigger
you know
the hard part
about that is
having to go tell his wife
having to go tell his son
you know
after the funeral on this
on Tim
we're getting ready to leave
and Tim had a five year old boy
and we're getting ready to leave
and he runs outside
and he says can I have a hug
you know
when my kid was five
and he wasn't going to nobody asking
and what told me Alcoholics Anonymous
and on and on working in his house
just wasn't working for Tim
you know
and we just move on
you know
you go through that
and you survive it
and as I go through
you know I'm coming up
coming down the server structure
and I'm doing the area stuff
and I've changed sponsors
when Harlan's 25th
AA birthday
and
me and Harlan's relationship
I had met him
at Sanger Law
with Clyde Jones
and Nancy's sister Joyce
we were all down there
and they used to do a four state round up down there
and then
I think I was probably a year sober at that time
maybe two
you know cause Kristen was just born
and Miss Jeannie stole our baby
so
so
we're going through this deal
I met Harlan
I was impressed with him
and anybody that ever met Harlan
you were going to be impressed with him
and
then I went to a
regional forum in St. Louis
with our delegate
at the time and I'd run into him again
and Gary sponsored me
I think at this time
and
I thought about him that I was attracted to
and
so we started building a relationship
and he used to go down
in the springtime to Ozark and spend time with him
and then it was his
25th anniversary and
the area assembly was that weekend
and they couldn't figure out how to
keep him in town that weekend
so I ended up
calling Harlan
and lying to him
telling him that I needed to
talk to him
and they threw a big party for him
and it was
I don't know how many people they had at the assembly
but most of them were at this party
and that started our relationship
and Harlan
had been a delegate
in Arkansas
and that
in all honesty had always been one of my goals
and
he just kept
I just kept going
you know
when I think a lot about me
and the service I've done
see I dropped out of high school
when I was 16 years old
joined the army when I was 17
not by my choice
my dad had found me a job
and that was it
and
so I
Marjorie talked a little bit about it
about feeling less than
I just had that feeling of less than
you know
growing up as a kid
we moved a lot
and when I talk about moving
I mean we might live in Topeka, Kansas
move to Portland, Oregon
Dallas, Texas
or anything in between
my kids had a ball
they found my old report cards there a few years ago
you know
D's and F's
D's and F's
D's and F's
so you know
you think about being a high school dropout
and the
ego you've got to have to want to be a delegate
but it was just
you know
it was just one of them
there was an attraction there about that
you know the delegates I've met over the years
and the
they carried themselves
and I don't think it was so much about being a delegate
it was I wanted to have that peace and
calmness that they seemed to have with them
and
anybody that
knows me knows I'm wound pretty tight
most of the time
so we
I'd met Harland
and we used to make trips
together
me, Dave, and Harland
we would go somewhere once a year
and uh
I think we're going to Amarillo, Texas
this is my payback, Dave
we're in a motel
and we're sharing rooms
we got Harland
we got me and Dave
and anybody that knows Harland
yeah
he come out of the bathroom in his skivvies rubbing his belly
he says which one of you two I get?
laughter
so me and Marjorie have something in common
we've both slept with Dave
laughter
he doesn't snuggle real well
laughter
and uh
Dave
is my current sponsor
and we had talked about that
and
when Harland passed away
literally broke my heart
literally broke my heart
you know
and I called
when I found out I called Dave
and I said Tague you're it
you know
and we have a relationship
you know
it's a different relationship
than I had with Harland
you know
but it's a good relationship
how long have I been talking?
I don't know
doesn't matter
you know what this means?
absolutely nothing
laughter
laughter
laughter
you know
and I've had
I'm going to talk a little bit about service
like I say
I've had the opportunity
to
be of service to alcoholics and all
you know
I asked Miss Jeannie earlier
what her panel number was
she's a past delegate for Al-Anon
Dave's past delegate
for Missouri
you guys are real fortunate
you got to hear your incoming delegate
yesterday
and she'll do a great job
uh
and that's a big deal
because you've got to give up a lot of time
laughter
and when you
when you come up to service structure
or you do service the way I was taught
if you say you're going to do it
you do it to the best of your ability
and if you can't don't take the job on
you know
everything of any value in my life today
I've learnt in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous
you know
you want to have a commitment to your wife
keep a commitment in AA
and there are times
when it's easy to stay home
you know
I can sit here and talk about going into the jails
and no one got me involved in that
and you know
I will always appreciate that
you know
and
I still have a hard time
when somebody says they're going to do something
and don't do it
just really gets under my skin
you know
because I know what it's done for me
you know
it taught me
by sitting in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous
to do life on life's terms
taught me to be a husband
you know
it's taught me to be a father
you know
I don't argue with my wife
period
because when I argue
I argue to win
and I will say whatever it takes
to win
regardless of the cost
you know
she's supposed to be my best friend
and she is
there was a time
I treated you guys better than I treated
my own family
I don't go to bed at night
feeling guilty
for something that I have done
you know
that's a long way from where I come from
but I have learned all that
from watching you
and listen to you
I sat in a meeting in Carbondale one night
and
we wanted to talk about relationships
I looked around the room. there
I went in there and I wanted advice from him.
And I just kind of went, okay.
But I just, I learned how to be a dad.
You know, my first two kids is, you know, my son calls me every day.
The relationship I have with my dad today, you know,
he's getting older.
You know, and I think, you know, when I think a lot about Harlan,
I think about, I wish I could have had that relationship with my dad
that I had the relationship with Harlan.
But my dad's from the old school.
I'm 60 years old.
You know, I can't ever remember telling my dad I loved him.
I can't ever remember my dad telling me he loved me.
But he's from that school.
His actions, he always made sure I had a roof
and food.
Food and clothes and all that deal.
You know, and that's his way of saying it.
But I built a relationship.
You know, go to your dad when you're doing your nice stuff
and tell him you weren't the son you were supposed to,
you know, that you should have been.
You know, but we've done that and we've, you know,
we've mended that side of the fence.
And, you know, we just, you know, I've got a good relationship.
Now, my mother's a whole other story.
She's crazy.
You know, but I love her.
And I'll do anything in the world for her.
I just can't participate in the craziness.
You know, and I remember when we first got together
and it was Halloween time.
My mom and dad had just gotten divorced
and she's in there trying to bad mouth my dad
and, you know, and alcoholics.
Mom, I love you and you're welcome to my house anytime,
but you've got to leave that stuff outside.
Yeah, he's my dad and I'm not picking sides.
And that's tough.
She comes back once a year, Christmas time.
And that's kind of it.
You know, and that's just the relationship we have.
I've got four siblings.
I don't have a lot to do with them.
And it's not that I don't love them.
My little sister is probably the one I have the most to do with.
But you guys have taught me all that,
that I don't have to play in the insanity
because I'm a mama's boy.
Whether I like it or not,
and she can suck me in just really fast,
so I just choose not to get sucked in.
As I said, tragic things happen at Alcoholics Anonymous.
My second year's delegate, Nancy's sister,
had followed me into Alcoholics Anonymous.
The first time.
Joyce was two weeks shy of 19 years sober
when she jumped off a bridge in Dallas, Texas
and killed herself.
So I think sometimes that we forget
that we're set in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous
and that person's suffering
might be that person sitting next to you with 19 years.
The miracle of Alcoholics Anonymous is
me and Dave and Harlan,
we've been running through the years
and Joyce had lived in Coffeyville
and moved to Tulsa
and they had moved to Dallas, Texas.
And the God I found inside the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous,
I had called Dave
because we had been in Tyler, Texas at a conference.
And to get a guy's name, I think lives in Dallas.
So I picked the phone up, called Dave
and he gives me this guy's name and he lives in Mesquite.
And I called Jim and I asked Jim,
I said, will you call Pete?
Which was Joyce's husband
and he was a member of Alcoholics Anonymous too.
And I explained what had happened
and asked him to call Pete.
He said, I don't know.
He said, I don't know what I can say, but I'll call him.
And here's the magic of God working in our lives.
Jim picks up the phone and calls Pete
and they get talking a little bit
and not only do they realize that they know each other,
but they sit in the same meeting on Sunday nights together.
You know, you take a guy from Pete, Kansas,
calls a guy from Joplin, Missouri
to get a phone number of a guy
and he calls Pete.
And he calls Pete.
And he calls Pete in Dallas, Texas
to call a guy that's wife's just committed suicide.
Where else will that happen
other than Alcoholics Anonymous?
And you pick that phone up
and you do the next right thing.
You know, and so I've got a loving God
and bad things are going to happen.
What I've come to realize for me is
God has answered every prayer I've ever prayed.
He just says no a lot.
And when He says no is when I've got to take the action.
When I've got to get busy.
In Alcoholics Anonymous.
And that's where a lot of my acceptance comes from.
I just lost one of my best friends.
He was 52 years old.
And I mean, if God ever put another man on this earth
that was like me, it was him.
I mean, we ate the same, we thought the same,
and we're both full of it.
And he's working in St. Louis
and I had talked to him that day
and Nancy was in St. Louis
and they were supposed to get together
and have dinner and his wife
had just went back to Gulfport
and he didn't call her that night
on a Monday night.
And didn't get a phone call.
Miss Susie didn't get a phone call the next morning.
And so she called the front desk.
And Jason was just a little bit short.
Sort of 20 years sobriety.
And he'd had a massive heart attack that night and died.
And it just breaks my heart.
And for somebody that come here
and didn't care about anything.
I don't know whether it's because I'm getting older
that I'm starting to get a little compassion.
Or you guys have taught me really well.
And we had to go through all that deal.
And Marger had her deal this summer.
Yeah, I had the opportunity
to go spend some time with Dave.
And, I couldn't have thought
of any place I'd rather been than there.
And it's just the life you guys have given me
like if.
me, I can never pay you back.
I'm going to go home this afternoon and try to catch
a little nap if I can talk her into driving. My home group
meets at 7 o'clock tonight. I will be there.
I had old timers that were in that group at that time. I've not
seen a Super Bowl since I've sobered up. The guys that
well, I didn't like Super Bowl that much before when I was drinking.
It was just an excuse.
They tell you, if you want to go watch
Super Bowl, next time you feel like drinking, call the NFL. That's the kind
of stuff I got when I got here. You taught me about commitment. You taught me
about living life on life's terms.
My life's good. I've got a 23-year-old
who's never seen me drink. I got to walk my oldest one down the aisle.
I got to give her a place.
I got a place to live when she got divorced.
I think about all that stuff. She's laying in the basement of the house and she's got my
grandbaby in her arms. Her life's in turmoil.
Turmoil. I go down there and I check on all my
kids when they're at home and open the door and see if they're doing okay. She's laying
in that bed and that grandbaby's laying in her arms. I know beyond a shadow of doubt
I am not the reason for her pain.
I'm just a little bit.
I might be able to help her. Then we bought her a house and moved her ass
out.
A little bit.
How do you ever pay that back?
For me,
don't say no. It's about
coming to Neosha, Missouri. There ain't any place I'd rather be right now than right here.
I know
a lot of you guys. My life goes way beyond my wildest dreams today.
I got three guys that helped shape my life
to what I've got today.
We got a new one coming up and they're starting to shape his life. I get to watch
him grow and change. I get to see Jeff. I get to see Mike.
Where else would I want to be?
A couple bucks in a basket.
Best thing that's ever happened to my life.
When I first got here, I wasn't a, no.
No thank you.
I'm not ashamed of being an alcoholic.
I don't go out and broadcast it.
I don't shut my phone off at night.
Worst thing I ever invented was caller ID.
You can see which group's calling you.
No, it's going to be the same thing
over and over
and over.
Over and over.
you know if i have anything to do is uh to say is you know find a home group get a commitment
keep your commitment uh be of service when my life's at its worst in my mind you know i've
been fortunate enough i sponsor a lot of guys i'll pick the phone up call it and say how are
you doing he goes fine you're not the one i need to talk to and dial the next one my life sucks
let's get some coffee you know because things are going to happen inside these rooms
but if you stay in the middle of alcoholics and honest it's kind of hard to fall off
you know harlan uses you know yeah you somewhere along the line you got to quit
straddling the fence i always figured you had to get off one side or another and harder to say
it'll cut you in two you know and it's little things like that that i had to pay attention to
you know i love alan on the married one but what i can tell you is they taught her not to
get her out of my way for i could do what i needed to do to get to you and there's all i got in life
that just absolutely goes beyond my mother-in-law likes me my current the other has passed
she thinks i'm the best son-in-law in the world
you know and and
that's as a result of what you guys have taught me
my little one is spoiled rotten
and she will continue to be as long as i'm above the ground and sober
i'll give them anything they want within reason
and then mom shuts me down
you know i love alcoholics and honest
and i love the life you've given me
the greatest gift you've given me is to stay teachable
when i become unteachable i'm gone
and just because i went down to service structure doesn't mean i know anything anymore than anybody
else
you know some people teach me what to do
some people teach me what not to do
and i've been on both sides that spectrum
you know the greatest gift you've given me is to stay teachable
some people teach me what not to do
and i've been on both sides that spectrum
the greatest gift you've given me is to stay teachable
gift is i stayed teachable i've stayed accountable whether it was owen dave gary i've had a great
weekend with gary and when them relationships have changed i've always made so my side the
street clean because it's kind of embarrassing when you change sponsors and you forget to tell
the other one it becomes real uncomfortable you know you start avoiding people and i don't avoid
people uh my life's good uh there's a sentence in the uh spiritual experience in the back of the
book and it's my favorite if anybody ever asked me to sign a book that's where it'll be
is by hubert spencer it says contempt prior to investigation and i had a lot of contempt
when i got here and as a result i've had a lot of investigation over the years and uh
that's probably my favorite part in the whole book for me because it got me off my butt i am
really grateful to be here dean and committee thank you for having me uh i've enjoyed it really
and i'll pass
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