Chris R. on Steps 8 and 9 — Rationalizing the Wreckage and the Need for Urgency

We are on steps eight and nine, and I hand it over to Chris and Myers. You guys hear me okay? Man, it's tough going to eat and coming back and sitting in this room again like that. I sat down in that chair a minute ago and went, oh, no, not sitting again like that. When you get old like me and your rear end goes away, it's like sitting just kills you. If anybody needs to get up and move around a little bit like that, it's no distraction whatsoever. If you need to get around and move a bit, I sure understand. This time of day is always a little tough. I remember talking to Cliff Bishop one time after he started sponsoring me, and he asked me if the promises had come true in my life, and I said, I kind of don't know. I kind of knew what he was talking about, but I said, specifically? And he said, well, pick them, eight-step promises, nine-step promises, I mean, tenth-step stuff. Let's look at the ninth step, and then he read them, these little nine-step promises, and then he read them, and I remember reading through them and going, no, no, no. No, I can't say that any of those things are. What I didn't understand, because I had just started my journey with this cat, is that everything that we do is cause and effect. It's like what you do over here. You get over here, and by the same token, what you don't do over here, you don't get over here. And so this is where I ended up in trouble, is that I think within our fellowship, this is worldwide within our fellowship, we tend to, in sponsor land, we tend to start letting guys kind of have their lead after we get finished with an inventory. So, like, they get done with their inventory, and then they split. Maybe they'll do six and seven at home by themselves. Sometimes they'll do it with us like that. But after that? After that, I never had anybody pay any attention to me after that. I've had a couple of people ask me a question. Well, did you, where are you on your amends type stuff? But other than them just asking, which is a perfect opportunity for me to lie and say, well, I've got them all whipped in line. I'm in great shape like this. The problem with this stuff is, guys, is that it's like with a lot of these things. If you'll give me enough time up in my head, I can justify just about anything. And so an amends that looks real that I really need to do, if you'll just let me spend some time with it, it doesn't take a long time, just some time, I'll begin to tell the story and retell the story and recast the story, and I'll minimize something or maximize something or do whatever I've got to do to make it look like they were the bad guy, I was the good guy. And, I mean, stop and think about your own experiences. How many times have you said, had somebody say something that you felt like slided you in a meeting? Am I the only guy that it ever happened to where it felt like somebody was cross-talking? And they said something to you like this, and then it's like you're walking out the door, and you're trying to kind of relive this in your head, and you go, did he really just cross-talk me in that thing? I think he just, like that. And then by the time I get out to my car, I'm looking for my cell phone, and I've got to take my cell phone out, and I'll call somebody else that was in the meeting, and I'll say, buddy, did you hear what he said? Because, see, the reality of this stuff is that if I can call Polly, and I can get Polly to agree with me that you cross-talked me in that meeting like this, then maybe Polly. Polly and I could hate you together, you see? And there's great comfort in that. There's great comfort. And so depending on how I tell the story, this is how we get off into this crazy kind of sense of rationalizing some stuff. And so some of this stuff will clarify in inventory. Sometimes you get it all boiled down, and you get a pretty good picture. That's the reason why so many of us kind of look at them and go, oh, crap, could I really be that goofy? Uh-huh. Yeah. I mean, because when you're looking at black and white, I mean, yeah, I can be. And that's the reason why there's some kind of urgency there to go ahead and deal with that stuff right now. That's the reason why we want to get six and seven out of the way, and then we want to bounce into this steps eight and nine so that we can get this stuff down on paper. The problem with this stuff, guys, is that it always falls suit because we're all cut out of the same kind of cloth. It's like if it's eight months before I make an eight-step list, how many of those people do you think, how many of those people do you think that I'm going to try to justify and rationalize away in eight months? A lot of them. Most of them. I mean, it's just like, I mean, this is not comfortable stuff, guys. I mean, I don't think I'm the only one in here that gets really kind of sweaty thinking about this whole idea. I mean, how many times, do you remember the very first time you walked into an AA meeting, you're sitting in a club someplace, everybody's 15 people in there, everybody's smoking three cigarettes, and before the cigarette smoke gets down where you can't read anything on the wall, you happen to glance up. You happen to glance up and see that lampshade thing that's on the wall that's got the steps and the traditions on them like this. Most of these clubs have them like that. And you're reading them and you're going like, I mean, I'm in my first meeting and I'm going, yeah, okay, okay. I already did that. Yeah, yeah. No, uh-uh. Oh, hell no, I'm not going to do that. And it's just like we're just running through. We don't know anything about the steps. We don't know anything about experience. We don't know anything about anything. We just know that the idea that I'm going to have to approach, people who I had a bad deal with, and make some kind of an amends. And so my head, my ego takes over and starts this rationalizing deal and starts trying to figure out a way to get me out of it. And given sufficient time, I can get out of all of them, all of them. Given sufficient time, I'm always convinced that you were the bad guy and you deserved everything that you got, and that's it. You're lucky I didn't kill you. Welcome to Texas. I mean, I just like, I just. I mean, but it's weird how that works. You just kind of go like, why is that, is that, that way? What Clifford did with me that was so weird, sponsorship-wise, guys, is that we got done with this inventory, which was really profound for me, because here I am seven years into the deal, and I do my first real inventory, seven years into it. And then I do six and seven, and then he says, okay, here, let's work on your eight-step list. And I said, well, we got plenty of time for that. And he says, no, no, no, right now, we're going to do that now. Now, he had part of that already. When we were listening to my inventory, the stuff Chris was talking about earlier, Clifford had already had a list of some stuff that he noticed right off the bat in that inventory, he had that, which was cool. But as most of you guys are quickly aware of, not everything is going to, not everybody that you own amends to is going to be on that resentment inventory. I mean, guys, there are people that we harmed that we had no resentment tied up with like this, and so they won't be there. They won't show up on that list like this. And so. We used to laugh about it when we were talking about this stuff. It's like, if we all pretended we were in a restaurant eating, and then we just could picture everybody we knew walking in one door and then walking out this door right here. If we looked up and waved at them and go back to eating, we'd be okay. If they walked in the door in our mind, if they walked in the door and we're eating real quick trying to get out of there before they notice us or this kind of stuff, then perhaps there's something there that we need to investigate. And so we. I think it's important to look at that stuff. Look through, I mean, I'm going to go back. I'm looking. I'm a big one for looking through date books and looking through some of this stuff to try to see. I had lots of wreckage around work stuff that was, that had showed up in there. And, and it was just uncomfortable. It just made me, made me a little, made me a little sweaty. I love the way the book, look over there for a second in the stuff that Paulie was reading on just a minute ago like this on, where, where step eight starts on page 76, Bill Wilson knows that there's going to be some of these that we're not going to want to make an amends to. And, and, and he gives us the, the instruction. If we haven't the will to do this, we ask until it comes. I mean, most of you guys have no problem at all. I mean, there'll be people you'll go, I'll be glad to make an amends to that guy. I don't, I don't, yeah, I, I can see that. I can see that. But what if it gets deeper? What if it gets tougher? What if there's, if there's harm done you or what if there's stuff that you're just completely embarrassed about and you just, would just as soon pretend it never even happened like that? I, I just, these are the things where prayer will come in and you'll find yourself later willing to, to do these things. This little piece that he read at the top, I love that stuff, but this is not an end in itself. Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be a maximum service to God and the people about us. Guys, this is not all about just making things right between he and I. This, this is not about this. A lot of this stuff has to do with how do I fit myself to be a maximum benefit? I have, if, if, it's like. How many of you guys that are sponsoring, guys and gals, how many of you that are sponsoring people have listened to people that you sponsor, um, talk about the things that they're not getting in recovery? The jobs they're not getting, the relationships that they're not getting, the freedom that they're not getting like that. And I'll tell you guys, if you'll go back and look at the amends, ask them the question. Tell me where you are around this amends kind of stuff. It's like, it's like, it's like, this guy, I got a, a guy that, that is, is, I love this kid. I've worked with him for a long time. And, um, and he, he can't get a date. I mean, he's like me. He couldn't get a date with a shotgun. He just, he just, he, he could get one date, but he couldn't get the second date, which I'm famous for. I'm getting one date's easy. Getting the second one is a little more, a little more difficult. And, um, um, and so I started asking him one time. I said, listen, I'm just, I said, Tom, is it possible, just possible that the reason that this is not happening is because of the damage that you did to so many girls. When you were out. They're, um, um, acting like a, a, a player and, um, um, and that you haven't made amends for. And he said, there's no connection between what I did out there and, and, and this right here. I said, okay. I said, let's, and just in continuing the conversation, uh, stupid. Um, if you, if, if, if you don't think that God's hand is in the middle of this thing, I said, let me ask you the question. Are you one of God's kids? He goes, yeah. And I said, um, is the, um, uh, that girl. That's sitting right there. Is she one of God's kids? Well, yeah. Okay. Do you think that God for a moment wants one of his kids to be in the same room with you who is an admitted, um, crazy man with women? Well, well, if you say it like that, I guess, and I'm going, buddy, I'm just, I'm just saying, if you'll go take care of some of this stuff, let's see what happens up. Tom spends, um, another four years or five years in, in and out and in and out. And, and was in, in, um, introduced to the joys of crack cocaine and which damn near kill him. And, um, at the whole thing, I mean, his life is an absolute crap storm. Um, and he finally, when he came back in the last time, he said, I'll start this over from the beginning and we'll do this the right way. And he did. And we got down into a sex inventory and we got down into made a list of all this stuff that he had harmed. And it was a pretty good old list. And I mean, it was like three guys and 60 women. I mean, it was crazy how it was like this. And he dealt with it and I helped him with it. And the whole way we talked about the whole, I didn't think we were ever going to get finished with it like this, but, but we did. And in the end, what happened was, is that he said, I believe it or not, Myers, I think I'm done. And I said, no kidding. And about five weeks later, he comes walking in and he says, you're never going to guess what I did last night. And I said, what? He said, I went out on a date. I said, no kidding. And he said, Myers, I'm going to marry this girl. She is something special. And I said, I know you think that, but does she think that? And he said, you. Yeah. Yeah. Just like this. And they did. They did. And they got married and they had a couple of babies. And, and he is the picture, picture of, of a fine daddy and a great husband. I mean, amazing deal like that. But I mean, it just, you don't get there by just wanting to be there. You got there by taking care of the wreckage that, that happened on it. Look at the way the book is set up. I always thought it was funny. They took every little piece and they just talked about the stuff that all of us deal with. Like that, most alcoholics owe money. Perhaps you committed a criminal offense. Every paragraph they're addressing something else. Maybe there's a divorce and it goes over, chances are there's domestic troubles. And they're, they're looking at each little piece of this stuff that most of us, this is just garden variety stuff that we're going to run through. And he gives us a little rundown then on how to handle that. I won't deal with a bunch of that guys. I just wanted to, it, it, it just simply freaks me out. The clarity with it. Um, um, and I think from a sponsorship standpoint, all of this was to say that if we'll, if we'll take that, that sponsor leash and just choke up on it a little bit and just kind of get them a little closer to you, uh, so that we can kind of keep in the middle of this process like that, what you'll begin to see is, is that when they realize that you're going to stay in their grill until it's done, there'll be motivation to go ahead and keep doing it. And then you'll be there to try to help them like this. Um, some nuts and bolts things, guys. Uh, there are indeed times when a letter is the only thing that's going to help you. It's going to work that you're going to have, I've had guys who had restraining orders and they can't see their, their exes. Um, uh, but you could write a letter, um, that would work. Um, and, uh, please read them ahead of time. I've talked to a number of people when I'm, when I do this and who, um, who, uh, don't do that. They just say, well, write the letter and then send it and then we'll be good. And I'm going, okay. But I've always, I always read them like that because from day one, uh, it'll be like perfect paragraph, perfect paragraph. What? Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? What are you doing here? Like you were perfect for two paragraphs and then it's something stupid. Like, by the way, I guess you probably ought to know that I never would have done what I did if you hadn't done what you did. And this guy, I mean, it's that kind of stupid stuff. And you just go like that. Take up, uh, um, white out, please just get rid of that. Okay. And then, and then we'll send it like, and, um, pretty, uh, pretty amazing. I want to tell you two real quick stories. And then Chris wants to share some stuff too on this. Um, I, um. One of them is about me. Uh, there's two stories here. One of them is about me and one of them is about a guy that I sponsored. I want to tell you this one about this guy named Jim first. It's real, real quick. Um, there's a, um, a guy that I sponsored at a place called Homer Bound in, in Dallas. And Homer Bound is just a, um, cinder block building, four stories tall, uh, uh, cots for beds. I mean, it's just real bare bones, basic stuff, nothing fancy schmancy. And they keep these guys for night. 90 days or sometimes up to six months. And, um, and we, I, I, it's like sacred ground for me. One of the favorite places I've ever done 12 step work and did it consistently for many years. Um, um, um, until my travel got out of hand, uh, I was there all the time, two times a week, Wednesday night and Friday night. And, um, so, uh, there, there was a guy that showed up there one night. Um, Jim is, um, like five foot one little like this and real skinny, long, long, greasy hair. I think he washed it when he was in the third grade. And I think that's the last time he ever washed his hair. I've never seen anything like it, like a really bad, uh, complexion, um, and covered with jailhouse tats. He's been incarcerated for most of his life. He's probably 40 at the time, 39, something like that. And he'd been incarcerated, uh, Aryan brotherhood guy. I mean, how many Aryan tattoos do you have to have on you before you become a member of the brotherhood? He had two on this arm and three on this arm. What do you, what do you, why do you need five Aryan brotherhood tattoos? We know you're an idiot. Why do you need that many tattoos? Jesus. Anyway, God, God love him. He just, God love him. Anyway, he, he, he goes through the deal. He goes through their process. I'm sponsoring him. We're doing step. We're doing work. We're doing the stuff we're supposed to do. And I watch him change and change. Well, we get down through this hall, this work. He sees kind of what's going on with stuff and we get his eight step list made. He made the list and then we got ready for him to do this, this, uh, these amends. And he had, he had three or four of them on there that were real difficult. He had made some of the other ones. We got down to one amends left to be made. And it was to his dad and his dad was an, was an SOB and, uh, um, lived way up in West Texas up in Lubbock. And, um, it's about a four hour drive, maybe four and a half hour drive from Dallas. And, um, um, his dad used to get mad at him when he was a little kid and he used to beat him with one of those big old Western belts, you know, that they have in rodeos that got buckles on them about this big, big as a shoe box. And he used to beat this kid with that belt until he was just all bloody. And then he used to hold him in a bath full of salt water. Until the little kid passed out. Um, and then he'd jerk him out and throw him on the floor, um, about as bad as it could get. And, um, you just kind of, and I, I thought that Jim was just making this stuff up. And so I, I just said, well, I'm sorry that it happened like that, Jim. And, uh, and he said, you don't believe me, do you? And, and he goes like this and he pulls his shirt off, uh, and he's covered with scars. I mean, from the top of his, from the back of his neck, all the way down to his thighs, he's covered with them. Um, and, and I was just went, Holy. And it was just like, ugh. So we get down to the, that's the only amends he's got to make. And, and, um, he, we get ready to, to, uh, go do it. And I said, I tell you what, let me go with you. And I got, uh, we'll go out on there on a Saturday. I'll drive out there with you. We'll get this stuff done. And he said, oh, well, all right, that's a, that's a good plan. And so I said, okay, listen, you come by my house. I'm right on the way. I said, you come by my house, leave your car here. We'll take my car and we'll leave about seven o'clock. And he said, okay, great. Seven o'clock. I'm waiting eight o'clock. I'm still waiting. I call him and don't get any answer. I call him back a little while later. It's about nine o'clock. And I called him and he picked up the phone. And I said, where are you? I thought we were going to do this today. And he said, ah, I changed my mind. And I said, well, what day you want to do it? And he said, no, I changed my mind and taking you with me. I'm already almost out there. And I went, oh, Jim, no, come on, man. That's not the plan, dude. And he goes, he goes, ah, it's, it's going to be okay. It's, it's, it's going to be okay. And so he, um, he, I said, listen, do me a favor, man. When you get there, I want you to pull over before you get into town and pray about this stuff and let's talk about this. And then you go do it. And then you call me right after and let me know what's going on. And he said, okay, I would do that. And I didn't hear anything back from him for, for three or four hours. I didn't hear anything. And I'm thinking, oh man, what a, what a mess. And so I finally called him and, uh, he said, I'll call you right back in a minute. And he did. And then I said, what's going on? And he said, well, he said, uh, it's kind of weird. And I said, I had a feeling. And he said, um. Um, you know, but the, but the amends went okay. And, and I said, okay, we talked for a couple of minutes. And then he said, uh, I'll, I'll see you at the meeting and I'll talk to you later. And I said, okay. And I thought that was it. And about 30 minutes later, I get another call from Jim and he said, hey, uh, I was lying to you about some things and I need to be straight with you. And I said, what, what were you lying about? And he said, well, the amends did go good. It went okay. But I think you ought to know that I didn't go there to make an amends. I went there to kill him. And I said, uh, what do you mean? And he said, um, I, I, I had a pistol in my belt thing and back in behind my back. And I was going to just, he, when he opened the door, I was just going to shoot him. And I said, Jim, you, you can't, you realize you go back to the penitentiary. You're not even supposed to have a gun. And he said, I know, I know. And I said, why don't you just tell me about the amends? What happened? And he said, well, I can't do it in drive. Let me pull over. And so he pulled over and he said, hey, listen, I, I, I just, uh, um. Um, I had, I, I knocked on the door and I had my hand on this gun on my belt like this. And when the door opened, uh, there was a stranger there. And I said, what do you mean a stranger? And he said, well, I remember my dad being really mean. I've got this image of him pulling me out of the bathwater and throwing me on the floor. And I remember his face and he was younger and he was stronger and this kind of stuff. And when I, when I opened the door, what I saw there was this elderly man who was kind of humpled over and, and just old. But there was something about his face. I realized that he was at once afraid and very embarrassed at what had happened. And he said, I just, I was just sitting there sorting it out in my head. And I just let go of the, of the gun and walked inside. And we had this conversation and, um, I spent some time with him and he showed me some pictures of some that he had taken and we just visited for a while. And, and I, I went, golly, I said, Jim, what? And he said, listen, I'm not going to make any, any, any bones. I'm out. I'm not going to. Um, I want to, I want you to know the truth. I mean, he's not even on my Christmas card list. I don't think we're going to be bosom buddies, but I got to tell you, uh, every bit of hate is gone. I don't know. Um, I realized that I'm never going to be happy until I get clear of this. Um, and the man that was there is not the man that hurt me. He's not the same guy. And I went, uh, I get that. I get that. Now, listen, that's not the reason I tell you the story. Okay. Here's the reason that I'm telling you the story. Um, a couple of nights later, we were at Jim's coin out at this, at this place and there's 70 or 80 people in there. There's every ethnicity you can think of in there, in that, in that room. And I'm standing across this room and Jim is standing over here across and they do this little coin out celebration and they do this little Lord's prayer at the end of this deal. And I look up and when I look up like that, Jim is standing over there, um, uh, with two, uh, black guys on either side of him holding his hand. And they're doing the Lord's prayer. And I'm looking at the guys, this wouldn't happen. I mean, here's a guy who can't stop hating. And here's the guy that's standing there with two African Americans with, with, with, with their, their praying. And as they get done praying, this guy turns around and hugs him. And the other guy turns around and hugs him. They're over there blowing snot bottles, uh, bubbles. They're all just real emotional and crying and this kind of stuff. Now, listen, guys, it's, it's like, I, I came to AA to sober up. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I didn't know all this other stuff was going to happen. I didn't realize that, that at my fingertips were spiritual principles so completely powerful that my life could be transformed in a way that I never dreamed possible, that I could give up a lifetime of hating and a lifetime of, of, of just that kind of ignorance. I saw Jim two years later. He stayed around Dallas for a little while and then he moved out of state. But I went, the last time I saw him, he said, look at these. He'd had all of his teeth pulled out because his teeth were a mess. And, uh. He, he said, look at these. And he's smiling. He had great big dentures like this. It looked like they'd been taken off. The biggest dentures I ever saw in my life. Like a great big, great big old teeth like this. And he was looking at me like this. He said, but look at this. This is badass. And he throws up his arms like this. And there's no Aryan tattoos anywhere on there like that. He had them all removed like that. He still has some ink, but he didn't have all that crazy crap on there like that. I'm thinking, all right. Badass. Badass. I, um. Real, real quick. I, I wanted. The, the other. The other one I want to tell you real quick is, is, has to do with me. And, and it's, um. Most of you guys, or some of you guys know that I'm a bookbinder by trade. I, I was apprenticed, um, um, 35 years ago. Um. As a journeyman bookbinder and doing restoration work. And we used to work with a lot of, uh, libraries and mu, and museums. And my original clientele. We later began to work with a bunch of designers. But my original clientele were all museums. And we were doing restoration work on this other kind of stuff. And imagine how weird it would be. Um. We, if they found out how, what. How drunk I was. I mean, I, I did work on priceless heirloom books. Uh. With a quart of beer sitting on my workstation forever. I'd go up there at night loaded and work on these things like that. I mean, it's just not, not what you're supposed to be doing. I'm not proud of that part of it like this. But, um. Um. It was groovy until it wasn't. It was, it was okay until they found out. And they found out I went to a party one night. Uh. A bunch of them were in town for a, a deal. And I went over there, um. With a big old coat full of booze. Because they weren't going to have. They weren't going to have enough booze. They have a free bar there. But they're not going to have enough. So I took a bunch of. You know how that is. I took a bunch of stuff with me. And I managed to, to drink way more than I should have. And I ended up saying some things. And I got into a pissing contest. With a guy about something. I swear to God. These. I cannot even remember what we had to fight about. But I got into this, this, this deal. And tried to choke this guy to death. In the middle of this party. And they finally. I fell on the floor. And one of the bottles of booze broke. Uh. And so they threw me out in the parking lot. And I'm, I'm. I just. I'm covered with booze. It's freezing cold outside. And I remember looking up. And one of those guys. Uh. It just took one. Of those museum guys. Was standing in the doorway. When they threw me out. Um. And, and I, I left. And all that work went away. I mean overnight. It just dried up. And so we went from being. Um. Fair haired boy in the bindery world. Uh. We were doing work like that. For people all over the world. And, and it went away. I mean the word was out. And so. Uh. When I got sober. Um. I, I, I stood at this place. Where I had to decide. Whether or not I was going to tell people. What I'd done or not. Whether, whether I. Where I was or not. We. Every one of us has to kind of hammer that out. On our own anvil. Are we going to be anonymous about this? Are we going to be open. And transparent about where we came from. My choice was. I wanted everybody to know. What was going on. I thought it was the only. Only fair thing to do. And so. Uh. Some of these men locally. In the, in the Dallas museum scene. I could see personally. They made some calls. Um. Um. There were some letters. We had a big, big, big. Uh. Deal with. Uh. Uh. Museums out here in New York. And um. And I just wrote them a letter. And just explained that. I, I was a, an alcoholic. And that I had uh. Needed to be honest with them. And needed to be straight. That I was clean. But um. Anyway. I just let them know. Kind of what was going on. And um. We got a little bit of that work back. Uh. Not much. No. I mean most people. I mean why would they? Really. I mean this is priceless work. We're talking about. Like I couldn't get insurance anymore. Because of, of what I was doing. And so um. Um. It was embarrassing. Um. But. But I didn't regret doing it. I felt like I needed to. Uh. Clear that stuff up. And so uh. Um. Fast forward a bunch of years. Um. I um. Um. This is probably five years ago. I got a call from a guy. And he said. Myers. Um. This is Sid so and so. And I said. I said Sid what's going on? And I can't remember where I know the guy from. And I'm a little panicky. And then he goes. Uh. I'm, I'm still with the museum. And then I, I connected it up. And I went okay cool. What's going on? He said hey um. You, you don't happen to still be involved. In that A&A thing are you? And I went. I went. Yes sir. I am as a matter of fact. He said well good. Good for you. Good for you. And it was like dead silence. And I said. Sid are you okay? He said I am. Well my son's going to die. And then he just started crying. Uh. And we could. I don't. See the thing that gets me about this stuff is. Is that I, I don't. You don't ever know what God's got planned. You don't ever know how this stuff's going to work out. You don't, you don't know. You just simply. You just simply submit to a set of principles. Spiritual in nature. And then you get back. And you get to laugh. And you get to have a great time with a bunch of people. And you get to live a life that's so rich and full. And then by the way you end up with a situation where you get to save somebody's life. And I could grease some skids and arrange some stuff to get this little kid in some treatment. When he got out. We got him all plugged in. And got right up next to him. I helped the little guy do his step work like that. And we had the time of our life. And he is. He's a pretty special little guy. He's now. Moved out of state. And he's just kicking butt and taking names. Still sober. And I did. And this has happened over and over and over. Most of you guys I can tell from the way you're shaking your head. That you know exactly what it is that I'm talking about. My prayer is that every one of you will be so proud of the fact that you are in recovery. And that you have recovered. And that you want to be available for folks. And that you will be able to affect those lives. Pretty cool. Chris you want to finish this? Thanks. Chris R.. Recovered alcoholic. I had one of the similar experience with an ex-business partner. I was in a catering business for a bunch of years. And I kind of left this guy high and dry. One night I made up my mind. It was time to move back to Houston. I was living in a country. And I was going to move back to Houston. And I left this guy in all of our business holdings. He just left him. Holding the bag. And you know. He was not a happy camper. But I didn't have a problem because I was never going to move back to the hill country. I was gone forever. You know that Hicksville. Who needs that Hicksville? You know how God works it. I ended up back there a few years later. I finally got sober and ended up back in the hill country. And the first thing I had to do was track this guy down and find him. And I tracked him down. And it wasn't hard. His secretary gave me an appointment. And I showed up and expected, you know, hey. And he was not a happy camper to see me. And he sat across the desk and sat down. Didn't get up. Didn't shake my hand. He said, what? Make it quick. I'm busy. He was just not. Oh, buddy. Okay. Well, here's the story. And I told him. And I explained what the story was. He said, yeah, everybody in Kirk County knew you were a drunk. And he. I said, well, listen. I'm going to try to clean this up. I think there's probably some money I owe you. And if there's anything I can do to help you clean up the wreckage of this stupid business venture, then I'll be more than glad to do that. And he said, you know what you can do for me? He says, I got the money. Don't worry about that. I took care of all that. You don't know me nothing. You can get the hell out of here. And don't ever come back. In fact, if I see you in town, make sure that you are on the other side of the street. And he's a big old boy. He's big, big, big. Big boy. And I said, OK. And I. You know, and of course, and I had all my little amends. You know, I use these little little little four by five index cards. You know, when we were organizing our eight step list, I had this stuff written down so I could I could kind of keep an organized. And I had it like that. And I said, well, that's one that, you know, I made it made a shot. I did what I'm supposed to be doing. The willingness was there. I did. But I'm bummed. Just exactly what I guess was six months later. I get this phone call in the house phone. And this is before caller I.D. We didn't you know, we didn't we didn't have anything like caller I.D. until the crackheads got hold of it. And then that's I'm just that's true story. Anyway, we didn't have we didn't have any call. But I recognize this guy's voice, you know, forever, you know, and he said the same thing. Are you still you still in that A&A thing? And I said, yes, sir. And he said. I'm I'm kind of a little jam says, you remember, my son is the same stuff, you know, you if you hear a 65 year old man crying on the other end of the phone, it'll get your attention. I'm just I'm just telling this guy is tore up and he's is just he said, man, could you think you could talk to this kid? This is absolutely. Now, I left six months earlier believing that that a man had gone as bad as bad as any of men could go. You know, I got physically threatened in that a man. You know, it's like wasn't exactly. Yeah. Angels and bunny rabbits. It was none of that. It was like this. And but I'm sitting there was able to help the guy. Listen, I don't know where that kid is now. I know that he came to some meetings with me and we talked. We got him hooked up and he did OK. You know, I guarantee you, years later, I saw this guy and I had moved back full time to the hill country and I saw him and he bought my lunch. He was across the deal and came over and sat and visited. I mean, that's what the deal was about. But the question is, would this guy have ever bothered? Or to call me had I not taken the effort to make these amends, guys, it's like it's like the piece that I wish everybody in here could see, because it was a little difficult to get your mind around this. I'm not I want to I want to make the amend to you because I want to clean up the wreckage. I want our relationship to be improved. But, guys, it's just simple. Sometimes those relationships are not going to be improved, but it's the deal is this cleaning up the universe. There's a there's an old quote out there says you kick up the universe, it kicks back. And I hurt you over here. And in in something else is going to come get me on this side over here. And and the people that are not understanding that are the people that have never experienced that. It's it's the. Mark used to say it, the guys in our sponsorship lineage used to say, how free do you want to be? I mean, if you just don't want to drink one stupid, long, horrible day at a time, then just do what we're talking about. Just just go to a bunch of meetings in this year. You're going to be OK. You know, maybe you'll put rack up some time. But, guys, I want to be free. I don't want to be jumping every time the phone rings. I don't want to be looking in my rear view. Guys, after I got sober and made amends, I got to tell you, I used to slow down in front of cops. It's like way slow down. It's like basically, buddy, come on, stop me as I'm ready. You know, all of my all of my warrants are paid up. All of my tickets are done. I am clean on paper. But bring it on. Oh, shit. Two years later, I sold that old pickup and I'm cleaning out underneath. The seat and there's a vial of cocaine underneath my seat. I was like, oh, God's doing for us what we can't do for ourselves. You idiot. You idiot. But it's like I want to repeat that something Meyer said is any area that you're having trouble in today, relationships, financial, any of that. If you look because I'm using nine times out of 10 with the guys I work with. If you look over here at the amends they're not making, there's a there's a. There's a definite correlation. If you haven't cleaned up a bunch of stuff with the women, you're going to continue to have trouble with women. I don't know what that's about. It's the same with the money. The Christians, the folks that tithe in their churches, they've had this thing figured out forever. And the only people that laugh and roll their eyes about that are the people that don't understand what we're talking about. They have never tried it. How do you know what you don't know? It's already been said this morning. Today, it's like, come on, guys. You got to be good steward with God's money. I don't care how much money you got. In a bank, if you owe all that money, it's not your money. It's God's money. You better clean this crap up. And so that means that we got to face this stuff head on. I was in a meeting one night. We were talking about making amends. And this old guy leaned over and says, listen, you don't have to make amends to these credit card companies. They got all the money they need. They don't need your money. You know, I'm saying he's just letting them off one at a time. And it's like, buddy, this is not OK for what we're telling these folks. It's like, I understand things are tight. You want things to be tight for the rest of your life. Because they're going to be. Or you can get it cleaned up. I was working for Meyers. I said it last night. Thank God I had family. I don't know what I would have done career-wise. I was too sick to cook in the industry. I was just beat up. And I just, he hired me in the book bindery. And I was there seven, eight years. It was the bomb. I got sober in that environment with Meyers. And but we weren't killing, making a whole bunch of money. And I. I owed a fortune. I owed a lot of money. I owed the IRS a bunch of money. I owed credit card companies a bunch of money. And I'm living from paycheck to paycheck. And guys, I'm not starving. I mean, I'm OK. But I'm not making enough to make these amends. And I had to start kicking in. I had a bunch of these amends I'd put on the back burner. And I'll make these one day. I'll make these. The problem is everybody, you, with alcoholics, you know, I want to just go write a big check and just start paying everybody off. And the truth is, I couldn't do that. I had to make. I had my first approach. I owe you $75. I can pay you $10 a week until I get that paid off. Would that be acceptable? The book says you make the best deal you can. And a lot of those people, most of those people, I only had one credit card company that said no. It was Discover Card, I'll tell you that. I don't have one in my pocket. And they're upset about that, too, because I make a lot of money and I got lots of good credit. And they keep sending me, wouldn't you like to be a customer of ours? And I tell them, no, I tried to be a customer of yours in the 80s, and you told me to go hit the, eat me. OK, anyway, so. Anyway, but everybody else, they work deals with me. OK, Chris? Because they just want their money one way or another. And it's like, we can do this. It's the same with the IRS. You make your first approach, and they wavered penalties. They did, they bent over backwards to help me. But I had to go get a job, a part-time job. Now listen, are you willing to go to any lengths, is what the book says. We're going to talk about that next hour. OK. With the sponsorship stuff. But I had to go. I got a job at Texas Instruments up in Dallas. And I'm working for Myers. And he works us until 11, excuse me, 3, 3.30 in the afternoon. And then I'd get off work, and I'd drive, and I'd wash pots. Now I'm an accredited chef. I got a certificate somewhere that says that I know what I'm doing. And I, you know, but I work in this kitchen. And I remember filling out the application. He says, Chris, we have a kitchen manager's job open here. I says, no, buddy, I'm not looking for a career opportunity here. I need a job. Just. I just need to be useful in this area. And I, can I wash pots for you? And they said, well, rock on. Absolutely. And here it is, and here's what it pays. But seriously, this is the deal, guys. I'd get off by 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock at night. And I had plenty of time. I'd get some sleep. And on the weekends, I could go to meetings. I couldn't go to the meetings during the week, at nights, when I'd been going. Y'all hear that? You can stay. Sober and not go to a meeting every day. OK. I think we've beat that to death. Anyway, but I'm doubling up on the weekends. I'm having a good time. I'm staying involved in my group. But I go, and I only had to do it for about six months. But what happened was it put me just enough ahead of the pay scale so that I could start paying off some of these. And I get one paid off, and I could pay this one a little bit more. And one day, you look up, and you don't owe a soul. I'm going to tell you something, guys. It's a pretty fantastic feeling to be in that spot. It's pretty cool. And the credit cards start offering you this and that. Y'all follow? And then it's the bomb. But you don't want to put this stuff off. We've got a friend of ours, they wanted me to go back to Iceland one time. And a buddy of ours called us, and I said, man, I can't go. I've been twice. If y'all ever get a chance to go to Iceland, what a gorgeous place. It's the coolest. And but I'm booked up. I'm going to do it. I'm booked up. I can't go travel. And so I called this friend of mine out in Phoenix. And I said, buddy, you want to go to Iceland? These guys will pay you the way if you want to go do this talk. And he was so excited that he got a chance to go to Iceland. Oh, but by the way, you've got a little traffic ticket that you didn't deal with 30 years ago. And so you can't get a passport. And so he couldn't go to Iceland. Y'all follow? Again, it's that rationalizing stuff. I don't need to worry about this, because I'm never going back to Kerrville. I don't need to worry about this, because I'm never going to need to do that. Guys, clean it up. If you owe the money, pay it back. Or declare bankruptcy and start over. But you can't just keep looking the other way, pretending that it's not going to affect and impact your life. It is. And every case is different. Y'all got to promise me something before I finish this. Y'all got to promise me. Raise your hand. This is the oath, the ninth step oath. I promise I won't make any amends until I talk to somebody about it first. Man, you know who ends up making the mistakes? I got to tell you, nine times out of 10, it's not the new guy that's going to screw up, because he's got his little sponsor. It's the guy that's been sober five, six years, 10 years. And they're out there going to clean up some wreckage, and they're not going to talk to anybody about it. Guys, the only thing worse about making amends once, is that you're not going to make any amends. You're not going to make any amends. You're not going to make any amends. It's making it twice. I got to tell you, an amend that goes wrong, and then you've got to go back and remake it, because you stepped on yourself. Guys, don't do that. It's just not. Sometimes, I worked with a doctor one time, and he said, there's more than one way to tell a guy his sister's ugly. Did y'all get that? Guys, there's more than one way to make an amend. Sometimes, I'd like to make an amend straight to you, direct for what I've done. But sometimes, I can't make that amend without harming you. If you're going to be affected by the amend adversely, then I've got to be real careful about what I do, because I can't cause more problems. Yeah? I've got guys that I sponsor all the time that are legally not able to talk to their significant others anymore. There's court order. You've got to stay clear. They want to go make an amends direct. They can't do that. I sponsored a guy one time that shoved his wife through a wall. I mean, it was a nasty deal. And he was loaded like a big dog. He's got a restraining belt. He's got a restraining order. He can't go near this woman. But he just feels like hell because he'd done that. And he did exactly what Myers just said. He wrote her a letter and told her what he was going to do. He can't get near her. And he says, in order to make this right, I'm going to donate to this cause. And that's what he did. We found out there's a women's shelter in Dallas, Texas. And it's a women's facility for battered women. And this guy does volunteer work at that center every year. He's a maintenance guy. So he goes and does all the cleanup for them, the maintenance, checks the air conditioners out, and does it all for free. For this deal. It's just, well, he should have done this to this woman. He can't. If you're willing to do it, though, guys, I think we all pray to a God that's loving enough to cut us some slack in this deal. If I'm willing to do it, what he's going to do is he's going to set the universe straight. Do you think his balance is getting clean by helping those people over there? I absolutely think that. I absolutely think that. Don Pritz wrote some great stuff about eight step, about being willing to make these amends, folks. And I've got to tell you, just being willing enough to absolutely put this in motion, I guarantee you, you're going to start feeling some forgiveness almost immediately. But again, all of this takes effort. And this is what most people are not willing to do. Organize this stuff. As a sponsor, my job is to try to help you organize these amends so we can figure out what we need to do here. Make sense? I've got to help you prioritize your financial amends. If you owe the cable company. $200. And you owe the phone company $200, what are you going to pay first? Yeah, some of you all paused. I know. I love TV as much as the next guy. You know, you're going to have to put, what is it, Game of Thrones on hold for a minute, you know, because you've got to have the phone. You've got to have the phone to get a job, to communicate, to stay in touch with our fellowship. You've got to have the phone. So we're going to do that first, and then we'll do the, yeah. Guys, I didn't want to work two jobs. But you have to do what you have to do in order to get this stuff clear, and it may take one year. I sponsor a guy that owed $650,000 in debt. He sold some property, and he worked his ass off, and I think it was like 10, 12 years into his sobriety, he finally got it all paid off. This guy's phenomenal. You should see his life today. You all follow? I'm absolutely, totally free. A couple of things real quick. Somewhere, I don't know how this happened. I don't know if the treatment center screwed it up for us, or if AA just looked the other, I don't know. But somewhere along the line, we started reading from scripts. You all follow? There's a line in the book that talks about Bill Wilson, and he says, you go to the cat you're trying to make them into, and you tell them that you're on an errand of life and death, and that you've got to get this taken care of. Man, I am so fortunate. I'm all for that. I'm all for that. Let's say you stayed at this hotel last night and didn't pay your bill. So next week, you get a chance to come back to the hotel and make amends. You go up to the front desk, and you're going to tell them, listen, guys, I've got to tell you, I screwed you out of the night's worth of rent, and I need to make it right. I'm in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, and I'm trying to stay sober, and I need to clean my mess up, and so I want to try to make this right. Can you help me? Can you figure out what I need to do here to make this right? You all follow? I don't have a problem in the world with that. If you go sit down in front of your parents or your wife or your coworker and start reading from a script, hold my calls, you start reading from a script, hi, my name is Chris Framer, and I... I'm in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, and I'm trying to stay sober, and so I think there's some things I owe an amends for, and I want to make those amends now if I can't... Oh, I see. I see. So you really don't give a rat's ass if you make amends to me or not. What you're trying to do is one more time save your ass. You all see what I... The word is disingenuous. Come on, guys, if you can't look at the person across the table from you and clean up this mess, then don't bother to do it at all. Okay? Take my notes with me. I sit in the car. Okay, Chris, this is how much you owe the guy. This is what you... Okay, I think I'm ready. And then you get prayed up, and you go in and you make the amend. Take somebody with you if you want to go. But guys, make it genuine. Don't read from a stupid script. Make sense? I'll touch base on a thing that we see so many people doing, especially some of these cats that don't get good sponsorship post-treatment. They're trying to make these amends, and they want to go to their grandmother or their wife or their kids. And they want to make amends for all of that. Okay? They want to make amends for all the crazy shit they did, and they get too graphic. Your grandmother doesn't give a rat's butt how much crack you smoked and who you smoked it with. Or how much alcohol. Y'all under... They don't. She wants her VCR back. And you... Okay? She wants her VCR back. Not her DVD, her VCR. She wants it back. That's how you'll know you're ready to make the amend. You'll hear that knock. Hello? And then you'll go do it. But guys, I'm just trying to say there's too many people. You don't go to your eight-year-old kids and start giving them the graphic details of being drunk for six weeks, on the street or doing all the crazy stuff we do. They don't need to hear a fifth step from you. They need to hear in a general way how you weren't there when you needed to be there, that you were often missing from their life, and perhaps that's what you needed to do. And then you're going to have to sit there and talk to them a little bit and then listen to them some. Y'all are all good with that, right? It took me 13 years to finally make amends to my first wife. She was a nice lady. There was no reason. We just should never have gotten married, and that's the way it was. I sold her like aluminum siding, buddy. Like close hard, sell fast. You know, it was just, you know, okay, okay, I'll just wore her down. Anyways, we got married. She split. She was tired of living the crazy life that I was putting her through, and I started right off the bat trying to make amends to the nice lady. And I, you know, called, and she wouldn't take my calls. And I'd call her brother, and I'd write letters to the family. And, you know, it was just real clear she didn't want to be in touch with me. Her brother told me, he says, Chris, she does not want. She's moved back to Houston. Leave her alone. She's not interested in. She's bye-bye. Bye-bye. It was the same deal. But that card, I couldn't tear up because it was still there. It was still 13 years later. I'm with Mark Houston. We're in Houston, Texas, and we're going to, and NASA, NASA Road, and there's a Motel 6, nothing but the best for Chris R.. And we're fixing to go to a workshop, and I know she, her brother used to live at NASA, so I tracked his brother down, and I said, I called him just one more time. I said, listen, I know I just left him a message. And he calls. He calls me back, and he said, God, I can't believe you called. I said, you're a little persistent sumbitch. And I said, he said, he said, listen, I'm going to pass this message on to you, on to her, because I said I would, but don't expect anything. I said, buddy, that's all I want to do. I just want to, if she doesn't want to, that's fine. I just, I owe her some amends for the craziness I put her through. We went and did our little workshop, and I came back. It was about 10, 11 o'clock that night, and the phone was blinking. It was early. It was about 10 o'clock, and the phone was blinking, and I picked it up. And she said, you call me back. And so I called her, and she said, buddy, if you can stay. She didn't say buddy. She, she, she says, if you can stay an extra day, I says, if you want to have dinner tomorrow night, we can sit and visit. She says, I've, you know, I've been in Al-Anon a few years, and I know what you're trying to accomplish, and I appreciate that. I can at least do that. And so I did. I canceled a flight home, and I stayed an extra day, and we went and had dinner at a place down in the Heights. And I walked in, and there was no hugging, no nothing. We just sat down, and we started visiting, and I told her. I said, I cleaned it up to the best of my ability. I told her I was just crazy, this stuff. I'd gotten rough with her at the end. I'd shoved her, and I just tried to, and I'm crying because I'm a pussy. I'm a pussy. Come on. I still am. I know. And she looked, and she's got tears in her eyes. The waiter keeps coming around. There's better places to make amends than a crowded restaurant. The waiter keeps coming around. Are you all okay, or is everything all right here? And I said, you know, no, leave us alone. Yes, we're okay. You know, and they scattered, and we're sitting there. And she said, Chris, I appreciate what you're doing. I said, buddy, thank you. Thank you again for, but you don't understand. You don't have a clue what you did to me. I've made amends for what I think, from my standpoint, what I order amends for. She said, you don't have a clue. You don't have a clue what you did to me. It was about security with her. There was never any money in our house. She never knew what was going to happen. One day I come home, and I'm Mr. Nice Guy. The next day I come home, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Y'all ever notice? Just, I mean, and this could happen, change like that. And it's just the lack of security and stability in the family. Good heavens, there was nothing. I'm not seeing it from that standpoint. I don't understand that. She said, Chris, and I said, and you've got to do that. Is there anything I can do to make this right? And she told me how the cow ate the cabbage. And I've got to tell you, it was tough. I didn't take any abuse from her. Neither do you. But they've got to be able to vocalize what's going on. And we cleaned it up. We went back over to her house, and she gave me some stuff she'd been holding to mine. Hostage. And I took that. Guys, I'm going to say, we're not close. We're not friends. I know if I needed her, she'd be there. I could call her on the phone. I haven't talked to her for ages and ages. But we got that stuff straightened out. We cleaned up the wreckage. I don't, like I said again, this whole purpose of this, looking over your shoulder, worrying about this crazy stuff, it's just, it's just. One of the things that you guys can do along this process when you're making your cards is get your credit report. I don't care who you do or what you do, but you've got to know what you're up against with this so we can sort it out. First thing you guys can do is get your credit report, get somebody that knows what they're doing. Patty took care of mine years later, and there was still stuff, crazy stuff on there that I thought I'd cleaned up, and it was still nagging on me. And I got a chance to clear all that nonsense up. Does that make sense? Fifteen minutes, you'd like to share a little bit? I've got some high spots. You want to talk about some of the men's real quick? Okay, come on up here. Hi, Chris Alcoholic. I love hearing of men's stories. You know, it's remarkable how we, you know, make and change, and, you know, from my own experience, the sponsees, the people I'm working with that get heavily into amends, you know, I love watching that. I love watching the change. You want to put horsepower into your program, you know, take the amends part really, really seriously. You know, if there's one change I could make to the literature, I would put the word actually in front of the 12 steps, you know, actually. Actually made a list of the people, actually, you know, made amends. Because I'm telling you, there's like a million people in Alcoholics Anonymous that for some reason they think that this is optional, you know. These are merely suggestions. Well, you know, it's also suggested that you recover, you know. And I think amends are very, very important. You know, I took them seriously. You know, I'm glad that I did. You know, I'm where I am today because I did. I had some amends that I needed to make with ex-bosses. I mean, you know, I was a real piece of work the last number of years of drinking. You know, just crazy stuff. I'd go to a Christmas party. My boss would go, Chris, two beers. You can have just two beers. Oh, yeah, Frank, yeah, you know. And somebody would make the mistake of bringing in a bottle of whiskey during the Christmas party. And I remember like chugging a bottle of whiskey. And, you know, all of his clients are there, right? And I'm, you know, I'm going outside for a cigarette and there's literally, you know, like 12 cases of beer all piled up on each other. And there's a light pole. I'm an electrician, right? There's a light pole for a job the next day. And it's just sitting there. It's not bolted to the ground. And I go up and I lean against the light pole and it goes down. And I go down and I knock over the case of beer. And he, you know. He's looking out the window and I'm covered in cases of beer. And, you know, a light pole has crashed into, you know, one of his client's cars. And, you know, God damn it. You know, that's how he would react. Well, you know, I remember calling him up because I was going in. You know, I'm thinking I got to tell my boss I'm going into treatment. So I call him. I go, Frank, I'm going in. He goes, going where? I go, I'm going into a treatment, a treatment place for my drink. And he goes, good. You know, and that's it. I get out, you know, and I'm working somewhere else. And I realized that, you know, I got some stuff I got to clean up. You know, he's very upset. And I made an approach one time and he kicked me out of the office. And I went back about six months later and he kicked me out of the office again. I don't got time for any of this crap. I said, get out of here. And this one time I'm going in to get my haircut and he's in there and he's sitting in a seat waiting for a haircut. Like, you know, this is my chance. I sit down next to him and, you know, I do the deal and I explain, you know, what was going on and how I was wrong. And, you know, about a year later, I'm working for a school district and a year later, he's the electrical contractor. You know? I mean, amazing that stuff like that can happen. You know, there was an enormous amount of damage we can do. And, you know, I'm like these guys, you know, a lot of times we don't really have a clue. I think it's really, really important to ask in most situations, you know, have I left anything out? Is there any other harms that I'm aware of? And allow them to talk about it. You know? It's funny, I did an amends with my first ex-wife. I love saying that, my first ex-wife, right? You want me to do a relationship workshop, you know, for you? But some people actually ask, you know. I'm not sure if I'm qualified for that. Anyway, you know, I made an amends to my ex-wife one time. And it was, you know, she had come into town for a funeral and I got a chance to talk to her. And, you know, and she updated me on some stuff that I had done in blackouts that I didn't even know I did. Because I asked the question. I go, you know, did I do anything else wrong? She goes, oh, yes, you did. And she talked for a long time about that. But, you know, I did my best to clean all that up. Pay all the child support, you know, all that stuff. Made sure all that was clean. Years later, years later, I get a phone call from her. And she goes, are you still in that A&A? And I'm like, yeah. She goes, you remember Mike, my brother? And I go, sure. Well, he's drunk. He's drinking himself to death. And he's in a hospital up in Hackettstown, New Jersey. Would you go visit him? And I said, absolutely, absolutely. And this was perfect. You know, I'm jumping a little ahead on the next topic. But the 12-step work I probably love the most is when people are in the hospital and they can't leave. You know what I mean? And so I go up and visit him. And I do my deal. Then I get, I decide I'm going to do this Dr. Bob style, right? I get the boys together. And I go, okay, here's what we're going to do. You're going to go up there at 9 o'clock. You're going to go up there at 11 o'clock. You're going to go up there at 1 o'clock. And here's what I want you to do. I want you to tell them about your drinking and a little bit about your recovery. Don't tell them to do anything. But if they, but if he asks questions. You know, go ahead and answer them. And then leave. Right? So all these guys are going up to visit him in the hospital. And all of a sudden I get a phone call about three days into this. And he's like, tell him to stop. Tell him to stop. I'm in. Okay? I'm in. You know? Just please tell him not to come anymore. Right? And two weeks later he's the coffee maker at our home group. He's working the steps with a sponsor. You know? Like seriously. Now I want to tell you about my last amends. Because I did an amends about three weeks ago. Four weeks ago. I'm out in Denver, Colorado. My daughter is graduating college. Which was really amazing. And her stepfather, her stepfather really was in her life more than I was. And pretty much helped to raise her. And it's not like I had done anything directly to him. But there was some stuff that, there were some times when I was less than supportive. And, you know, there was some craziness that in the earlier days that revolved around me. And I really feel, I felt like he needed like partial amends and partial thanks for, you know, helping to raise my daughter. You know? And being this guy that helped provide. This guy that helped provide a roof over her head for all these years and everything. So we're having a luncheon after the graduation. And I pull him aside. And I say, Donna, can I talk to you for a minute? And, you know, so we walk off to the side. And he's standing here like this. And I go into it. And, you know, for about three or four minutes I'm covering everything I need to cover. I'm gracious. And I'm giving him thanks for what he does. And he doesn't, there's not really any reaction. So I think, okay. You know? So I walk away. And the next day my daughter is saying goodbye to me. I'm on the way to the airport. And I tell her, I go, you know, I just want you to know I pulled your stepfather aside. I wanted to thank him for everything he had done. And I wanted to talk to him about some stuff. And she goes, how is he standing? And I go, well, he was kind of facing this way. And I was talking from this way. That's his deaf ear. He didn't hear a word you said. No wonder it went so well. You know? And what the book says is it's water over the dam. You know? I did my job. You know? And it was a really great amends. That's all I got. Thanks.