Chanting Higher Power Is Good Until the Committee in My Head Shut Up – Matt K.

Now let's welcome our speaker, Matt.
Hi, I'm Matt Kimball and I'm an alcoholic.
I'd like to thank the meeting for putting up with me for the last year.
I've got a list of changes that I want to go through with you guys right now.
Anyway, let's start with me not being secretary.
If you're new, I want to welcome you to Alcoholics Anonymous.
This is the Brentwood Workshop.
It was the first meeting I came to as a newcomer that I laughed at.
So I hope that if I don't say anything funny tonight,
that you just find another meeting that you can go to
and not drink between meetings.
They tell me when I got sober,
they tell me the most important thing I can find in a meeting
is where's my next meeting going to be
and can I stay sober between now and my next meeting.
And that's all that matters.
And I remember when I got sober,
I came here, I needed $500 and a lawyer.
And I was going to go to jail.
Back then when you got arrested for drunk driving,
it was a $500 fine.
And you guys said, sounds like you need a meeting.
I was like, no, you don't understand.
I'm going to go to jail.
And you guys said, well, that's probably exactly where you need to be.
And I thought, you guys are not my kind of people after all.
So,
wow.
Okay.
I just,
I'm going through,
it's hot up here.
My sobriety date is November 6, 1978.
The last time I drank,
I kind of had two last drunks.
What happened was,
the last six months of my drinking,
I had been arrested for drunk driving.
I'd been arrested for drunk in public.
I'd been arrested for controlled substances.
And I was on probation.
I'd been on probation from the time I was nine until I was 22 years old.
The first time I ever got arrested was at the Whole Foods.
It used to be a Westford Hull up here on San Vicente.
I was nine.
I was nine.
I was nine.
I was nine.
I was nine.
I was nine.
nine years old, the first time I got arrested there.
And, you know, I went to elementary school right over here at Brentwood Elementary.
I went to Emerson Junior High School, and I went to Uni High.
And so the last time I was drinking, one of the last times I drank,
I had had this run where I'd been in a bunch of accidents, car accidents,
and physical problems.
The last six months of my drinking, I had been drinking a quart of vodka every day,
two six-packs of Schlitz malt liquor, and whatever you had to take, I was taking.
And I had lost the ability to talk to anybody.
I couldn't communicate with anybody anymore.
I'd been hit by a car.
I was working at the Rainbow and the Rock Seat parking cars.
I was a valet car parker.
And the first night I was there, I took some Quaaludes
and drank a quart of Bacar.
Because I found out my girlfriend was sleeping with somebody.
So the manager of the parking lot came in.
He goes, man, you can't drive like that.
So he gave me a gram of Coke.
He goes, go do this Coke, and we'll talk.
So I said, okay.
You know, I did this stuff, and we stayed up all night long talking.
And I told him my girlfriend was sleeping with somebody else,
and I was really upset about it, and he felt bad for me.
So he made me the manager of the parking lot.
And then two weeks later, I found out,
this is one of the guys sleeping with my girlfriend.
I was like, oh.
But it was in the day of Quaaludes, and she was a giver.
All my friends liked her.
So when I was working at the Rainbow and the Rock Seat,
I got hit by a car, and this whole side of my head caved in.
I had multiple brain contusions.
I had partial amnesia.
I lost my sense of smell.
I still can't smell.
By that time, I'd been splitting my wrists.
I'd been trying to commit suicide.
By that time, I think I'd been arrested 12 times.
And I was looking at going to jail.
Since I'd been seeing psychiatrists.
And a couple weeks after I got hit by a car,
another friend of mine died in a car accident.
And at his funeral, I went to my friend Tom's house,
and I stole a bottle of vodka from his mother's bar.
And he died.
That night, Tom got so upset with me for stealing his mom's vodka
that he pinned me down to the ground,
and he beat my head on the ground until my eardrums burst.
And the next day, I walked into my doctor's office
with blood coming out of my ears.
And my doctor said,
What happened to you this time, Matt?
And I said, It's just a friendly fight, Doc.
It's no big deal.
And he goes, You know, Matt, your friends are trying to kill you.
You're dying.
You're going to die.
I can't treat you anymore.
You're going to die.
So three weeks after that, on June 3, 1978,
I took three hits of Purple Microdot
and drank a case of Schlitzmalt liquor on the way to Santa Barbara
to go see the Grateful Dead play on June 3, 1978.
And I stayed up all night long.
I drank a quart of Jack Daniels, a quart of tequila,
and a quart of Southern Comfort.
And then we were staying at the same hotel as the band,
and my friends told me that I was partying with Jerry and Bob,
but it might have been a tree.
I'm not really sure.
And the next day, I walked into the concert,
and I got arrested for drunken public.
And I called my mom, and my mom came to pick me up.
And she said, You know, Matt, you've got three choices.
She says, I'll give you a one-way ticket to Germany or Hawaii,
or you can stay with me for 30 days and go to Alcoholics Anonymous,
or I'll drop you off at the Midnight Mission and you can go live with Clancy.
And so I stayed sober, and I got a sponsor.
I got in a Pacific group at that time,
and my sponsor said, You know, what we do here is we don't take anything
that affects us from the neck up.
We don't snort anything funny.
We don't do recreational heroin.
We don't drink.
We don't smoke anything.
We don't do poppers.
And we don't do sniff glue.
Nothing that affects us from the neck up.
And we don't do speed.
And I thought, You know, when I was six years old, I was fat.
And when I went to Emerson Junior High School, I became a speed freak,
and I became really skinny.
And I thought, When he told me we don't do anything,
I thought, If I ever get fat again, I'm doing speed.
And so I took...
I just gave myself an out.
I wasn't 100% done.
You know, I'm not done yet.
So on November 5th, 1978, I had a fender bender car accident,
and I went out and drank a couple six packs of beer.
I drank a six pack of Carlsberg Elephant Malt and a six pack of Schlitz Malt liquor.
And then I wanted to get a bottle of vodka.
And my friend said, He said, You know, Matt, my friend Doug,
who lives in Maui, who's got three years today, he said, Matt, you know, he says,
You've got to go back to AA tomorrow.
You can't hang out with me anymore.
You're going to die.
You've got to go back to your mom's and go to AA.
And so I went back to AA the next day, and I haven't had a drink since that day.
And I'm kind of just thinking about...
I went to the...
What's left of the Grateful Dead last night, and I was with...
It was really...
It was fun because it was like a lot...
I saw like 20 of my high school friends, and some of them were...
I'm psychedelics, and some of them were just not, and a couple were sober,
but for the most part, I'd say, you know, 80% of my friends were really high.
And I just...
I called John on the way over here.
My brother John's been sober for 41 years.
He just turned 41.
So I just...
I asked my brother John, I said,
Have you ever been to a concert with all the people you drank with and not get high?
That's the weirdest thing, man.
So it was...
It just...
And I brought...
I was so happy and overjoyed,
and I was like, Oh, my God.
I was so happy and overwhelmed with good feelings of seeing my friends,
and at the same time, I was really uncomfortable.
And I know that that uncomfortable feeling is why I drank.
You know, I drank to hang out with my friends.
I got high to be with the people I was with last night.
And they're still my best friends.
I mean, they're...
But they're not people I choose to hang out with all the time.
But I have a really good feeling when I see them,
but I also get really uncomfortable.
And I need to go to meetings because I need to be comfortable.
So I'll tell you a little bit about some stuff.
So this is a workshop.
I think that...
I like to think about forgiveness and love and a higher power
that's kind of important to me and my sobriety today.
And it has been for quite a long time.
But I have found that for me, like, forgiveness has been...
And also perception.
My perception is often wrong, you know.
And what I learned a long time...
a long time ago on how to deal with my life
doesn't always work for me today.
But sometimes I still go back to it.
And so I need to be reminded constantly
that I'm no longer running the show.
And I can't base my sense of well-being on having my way.
And if I do, I'm never going to be happy.
Some of the things that used to happen to me in sobriety
was I would set goals for myself and I would achieve goals,
but I was never happy with any of the goals I achieved.
And so I started thinking about, like,
well, if I could just perfect how I get the stuff I'm getting,
then I'll just always have good stuff happening.
And then I'll...
I just...
It doesn't matter what I'm trying to get.
I'll just do what I'm doing to get what I want.
And I just obsessed on that for the longest time.
And I was never happy inside.
I never felt any sense of accomplishment
if I ever achieved anything.
And I never felt a sense of satisfaction in my heart.
And I also felt the disconnect from my...
which I didn't know at the time.
And I think today, you know,
I think that there are two things that we have really seriously for me,
is that...
is the two problems that I have is not getting my way
and then just a disconnect from a higher power
and knowing that those are my two problems.
If I know those are my two problems all the time,
I'm pretty good, so...
But, you know, when you're busy at a Grateful Dead concert
and somebody's smoking pot in front of you
and you're telling them to stop smoking pot,
it's hard to figure out that you're just disconnecting from God at the time
when you're telling them to put the stuff away.
But anyway,
but we try to, you know,
we try to learn how to do that stuff.
And in practice, and we do.
So, some of the things I learned when I was younger,
I mean, I have some examples for...
When I was 15 years old,
that guy Tom and I,
and if Tom ever hears this tape,
hi Tom,
he's not in AA,
but we got these phone calls from this girl.
My friend Tom, we lived in Westwood
and these two girls lived in Ballera
and they asked us,
they said,
if you guys bring us a bottle of Southern Comfort,
they'd have sex with us.
And we'd heard of that, you know,
we were 15 and we'd been talking about it for a long time.
So, we got, you know,
we got a taxi,
we got, you know,
we panhandled,
we got a bottle of Southern Comfort
and we ended up in Ballera.
And the magic happened.
And the girl that I was with,
the next day,
it turns out she had a boyfriend
and he was a couple years older than me.
He was on a football team.
And from the 9th grade to the 12th grade,
at every single party I went to,
it seemed like this guy Frank was at that party.
And Frank was, you know,
so somebody would say,
Kimball, Frank's here.
And I'd go, I gotta go.
You know, and I would run
because I just was not going to,
I mean, I like, I'm a fighter.
I love to fight.
I mean, I really did like to fight.
I was, I liked to drink and fight.
I was just one of those guys.
But there's no fight when you just,
okay, you just hit me.
I'm wrong, you know.
And I'm, I'm a pussy.
So, I'm a fighter,
but I'm also not like a guy that wants to be the,
so, anyway, right after high school,
I heard Frank died of cancer.
And I was like, oh, thank God.
You know, and,
so, and I got sober right after high school.
So, miracles do happen.
And then a couple years,
I don't have a lot of time to talk.
So, in, in 1996,
I, I graduated high school in 1977.
I got sober in 1978.
So, I heard Frank die.
So, Frank died in 1977.
And in 1996, I was working on a movie for,
I was working as a, an assistant to an actor.
And, and in 1996, I'm, I'm,
I drive my actor to this stage and,
and I get out of the car and I open the door for him
in the trailer and, and this actress walks by.
And with her, you know, her driver,
he looks familiar and he opens the door for her.
And I look at him and I, he looks at me and I go,
Frank?
And he looks at me and he goes, Kimball?
And I go, I heard you died of cancer.
And he goes, I heard you died of cancer.
And I said, I swear to God,
I didn't know she was your girlfriend.
That was the first thing I said.
He goes, you swear to God?
And, anyway, Frank's a black belt in karate.
Oh, my God.
This, I swear to God.
I, this is true.
Frank just called me.
On the, oh, my, he really did.
Um, so,
um, so I, when I got sober, I really wanted to be a roadie.
And, uh, I was kind of dabbling in doing music stuff
when I was a kid.
And my brother Jim was a roadie for a band.
And, and there was music in my family a lot.
A lot of everybody was doing stuff.
And so, I, I started, you know, we started promoting shows
when we were little kids and, and, um,
building flash pots and lighting stuff.
And I took some classes at Santa Monica College.
I got sober and, um, I got, you know, I,
this time I got, Clancy's a sponsor
and I went to the Pacific Group.
And, and, uh, Clancy had, uh, I got this,
I wanted to be a sound engineer and learn some sound stuff
and then go on tour and be a roadie.
And, and you guys said,
you better wait till you get a year of sobriety.
And then I got a year and you guys,
you guys said, you better wait till you get three years,
you know, and, uh, so, um,
I got this job offer to work at a club.
And, um, I called Clancy and, and told him about this job offer.
And Clancy's, and I said,
but I'm not going to take the job
because if I take the job,
I'll miss the Wednesday night meeting.
I won't be able to go to the Pacific Group meetings.
And he said, what are you talking about, kid?
He says, I thought you wanted to be a sound engineer.
And I go, I do.
And he goes, well, he says,
the steps are set up for you to walk through your fears
for you to have your life.
He said, don't try to live my life or anybody else's life.
He says, live your life and take that job.
He says, try to come to the Wednesday night meeting if you can,
but if you can't make it, go to other meetings.
So I took the job and what ended up happening
was I started going to the,
Uncle John meetings during the day.
And I met a guy named Bob Horrigan there.
And Bob became my sponsor for 22 years.
And Bob was a guy that I saw who had a sense of humor
and I wanted what he had.
He referred to me and my brother John
and my brother Jim as Larry, Larry, and Daryl.
And he always invited us to sit
in the brain damage section with him.
And he was just funny.
And then his sponsor, Fred Ellis, died.
And when Fred died,
Bob did the eulogy.
And this is before I asked him to be my sponsor.
But this was when he did the eulogy
and he was crying and telling jokes at the same time.
I thought, I want what he has.
I want to be able to do that.
And so Bob was my sponsor for 22 years.
And he taught me how to walk with dignity
and how to have a sense of humor.
At 10 years of sobriety,
I had a son and I went in to get custody of my son.
And at this time, I still, you know,
I believed that group consciousness was my higher power.
But I didn't come to Alcoholics Anonymous with a God.
And I didn't know how to use God all the time.
I knew how to use the group all the time.
I knew that if I went to a meeting, I would feel good.
I stayed sober by meetings.
I did the steps to the best of my ability
up to that point in time.
But I had to reestablish a connection
with a higher power that wasn't working for me
when I was downtown in the courthouse.
You know, and so I was really uncomfortable
at the L.A. Superior Court.
And I looked at Bob, and Bob looked at me,
and he said, you know, Matt, he goes,
he goes, what's wrong?
And I said, you know, Bob, I've been arrested 13 times.
I've been guilty 13 times.
I go, I've testified for friends of mine
that after I testified, they were guilty.
I go, this system sucks.
It doesn't work for me.
And I don't like this.
I don't want to be here.
And Bob said to me, you know,
he was just kind and patient.
And he said, you know, Matt,
life's like the Academy Awards.
He goes, the judge has already read your case.
And she's already put the answer in the envelope.
And in Alcoholics Anonymous,
we're not in the results business.
We're in the action business.
He said, so what your job is,
is to go in and calmly state your case to the judge
and then be quiet.
Because Bob knew me well enough to know
that I'm the kind of guy that once you give me
what I want, I can tell you
why you should have given it to me in the first place
and work my way right out of a good deal.
So he said, just shut up.
You know, that's basically what he said.
And then he said, you know,
if you're worried about the other shoe dropping,
he says, what if the guy upstairs only has one leg?
So he got me to look at him.
He got me to laugh, you know.
And then, which he always did.
And then he said, last thing, Matt,
he says, before you walk in the courthouse,
he says, I want you to open the door,
take in a deep breath,
and let God walk in first.
And calmly state your case to the judge.
And I did.
And I ended up getting custody of my son.
You know, and I still do that.
I still calmly, when I get uncomfortable,
I'll take a break.
I'll open the door.
I'll let God walk in first.
Wherever I go, I try to let God walk in first.
And I try to be conscious of a presence,
a creative intelligence,
underlying the totality of all things,
with goodness for all of us.
And my sponsor today is a guy named Howard P.
So I love talking to Howard about higher powers.
So anyway, so, you know,
shortly after I did the roadie thing,
and then I ended up getting cancer after I had my son.
I had throat cancer, and I got married afterwards,
and things happened with my cancer.
And I got through that in sobriety.
I got through that with you guys.
You know, I had this, I was married.
This is, so often in my life, I want what I want when I want it.
Like, I wanted what I wanted.
I wanted, I was married, and my wife found out that I was,
I guess I was on tour, and when I was on tour,
she met somebody else, and she loved me
when I got married.
And I came home, and I was diagnosed with cancer
at the same time.
And I had like this, I'm a professional victim, you know,
so I had like this, well, I've got cancer,
and my son's mom's now taking me back to court,
and I'm losing the house, and I lost the car,
and won't you take me back now?
You know, I'm like, I was trying everything,
and nothing would work, you know.
So I had a friend who, on the program,
who helped me, and I moved in with her.
And she was, she's a celebrity, you know,
and she took care of me, you know,
and she introduced herself to all the doctors,
as either my wife or my sister.
And I got a lot of really wonderful help, you know,
and because of what she did.
But I would still would rather have had my way,
which wouldn't have gotten me anything.
I would have just been uncomfortable with this woman
who didn't want to be with me,
and I wouldn't have had the care that I had.
And I, you know, anyway, so,
but, you know, when I was going through all this stuff,
I didn't know why it was happening to me,
but Howard told me there's a golden thread
in everything that happens, and in hindsight,
we can see where the existence
of God is.
And after the fact of this whole thing,
I could see that, you know,
I had a big tumor that was wrapped around my jugular vein,
and I had tonsil cancer from smoking,
and I quit smoking 10 years before I got the cancer,
so if you smoke, don't quit.
And, uh,
just a little disclaimer.
So they took out all the, my tonsils,
they took out all the lymph nodes
out of this side of my neck,
I had a radical neck dissection,
and they got rid of the tumor.
And in hindsight, after, you know,
I can see,
clearer now,
that the tumor probably created a lack of oxygen in my brain,
and that's why I married that bitch in the first place.
But the truth is,
is she married a guy
that wasn't going to go on the road.
She got, what she got was something
that she didn't want to have.
And if I wanted to keep that relationship,
I'm sure I could have made it work out.
Um,
anyway,
maybe if I got tuberculosis or something.
Anyway, so,
um,
so,
um,
the guy, Tom,
that beat my head on the ground
at my 20-year high school reunion,
I hadn't talked to him in 20 years.
And Tom was there last night at the Griffith concert, too.
And, um,
and, uh,
anyway, so,
he, he, uh,
I hadn't talked to him since he beat my head on the ground.
And I, at the reunion,
I asked him if I could take him to coffee.
And he said, sure.
So,
we went to coffee,
the next day.
And, uh,
I told him that, uh,
I said, you know,
when you beat my head,
you know, that really hurt.
And, uh,
and I said, you know,
I'm sober today.
And that's one of the reasons why I'm sober.
My life wasn't working at all.
Anything I did,
everything I did was wrong.
I mean, every,
no matter where I went,
there I was.
And things weren't happening.
The truth is,
I stole a bottle of vodka from his mom's liquor cabinet.
And that's what I did.
So, I kicked the toe,
you know,
I stepped on the toes of my fellows
and they retaliate.
And he retaliated way over at the top.
But I forgive him.
And I forgave him.
And he started crying.
And he's told me that he'd been a victim of that
for the last 20 years.
And he didn't know how to,
how to call me to tell me that.
And we became really good friends
after all the fact.
And, you know,
and so,
and then the thing with Frank that happened,
a couple years,
20,
I stopped roadieing
because I just,
I can't do it.
It's not fun for me anymore,
road managing or whatever.
And, uh,
and I started a painting business,
you know,
and I,
I'm an interior exterior house painter.
And so,
that guy Frank
that I saw
at that movie shoot
got in touch with my friend Doug.
They both have property in Maui
and they saw each other in Maui.
And my friend Frank had this
property in Lancaster.
He's got houses he wanted to have painted.
And he was talking to my friend Doug about it.
And he says,
Doug says,
call Kimball.
He's a painter.
So,
he called me up
and he asked me if I'd be interested
in going to Lancaster
to paint his houses for him.
And I said,
you know,
I go,
yeah,
I go,
I would.
I go,
only if I could do it
for the cost of materials
and you pay the labor.
I don't want to make any money.
He goes,
no, no, no,
I'll pay you money.
I go,
no, no,
I've got to make an amends
to you for what I did.
I go,
I lived with that for a long time.
You've got to let me do this.
And so,
he said,
okay.
And,
uh,
we,
I painted three houses for him
in Lancaster.
And today,
like this,
he just called,
like,
I talk to Frank once a year
and we have these
and so much of my life
has been
based on my fear
of not wanting to
confront
or,
or address the things
that I've done to other people
that have kept me away
from the light of the spirit.
And it's been my experience
that every time I face my fears
and go through them,
on the other side of them,
it's been really,
it's been a,
it's been a wonderful life.
And so,
um,
what I want to leave everybody with
is the thought of forgiving people
and forgiving yourself
and how important it is for me
is that I'm not
this alcoholic
to try to
set a different course
so that I don't,
like,
have the anger
and,
you know,
I have,
uh,
impulse control problems.
And the,
the,
the more I work on being
connected to a higher power
and the more I think about forgiveness,
the more I think about how
we're all just people
and we're all,
and if I just can see God
in all of us,
I don't really have those
impulse control problems
as much.
But they still come up.
And I,
I,
you know,
I,
my brother,
my,
I was talking to my other,
my other,
my other brother,
Luke,
and Luke was saying that,
you know,
um,
on Memorial Day,
he says,
you know,
my dad was a major,
a major alcoholic.
But he,
my dad was a major in the Air Force
and,
and he was,
um,
he died of cirrhosis of the liver
and,
uh,
he died when I was three and a half.
And,
um,
you know,
one of the things he left us with
is,
was the vision of him
trying to kill my mom
when he,
you know,
choked her on Christmas
and,
and,
and,
you know,
and beat her head in the ground.
And,
and,
uh,
you know,
I grew up with a lot of violence
and,
uh,
I saw a lot of stuff
when I was a kid.
And,
uh,
and it kind of
helps me to know that
because of what it was imprinted
on me before,
if I could change
how I see that,
I could have a different
action,
uh,
different,
I could have a different outcome
on how I,
how I process it.
Because how I've always processed it
was,
when I used to hear my,
the word dad,
I would,
I would get really angry.
And what I would do is
react out of rage.
And I,
I worked on rage
for a long time.
And that hasn't worked for me
for a long time.
And the truth is,
I haven't seen my dad.
He died when I was
three and a half years old.
And,
um,
you know,
I haven't lived with that kind of
violence in my household
in 55,
52,
50,
I don't know,
a long time,
50,
53 years,
something like that.
So,
um,
but sometimes
I still act
as if it's happening.
And,
uh,
so I've got to
try to work on forgiveness
so that I can have
a different outcome.
Because I don't want to be that,
I don't want to,
you know,
I don't want to,
I don't want to respond
to life that way.
I want to be happy,
joyous,
and free.
And I do that
when I go into meetings.
So,
um,
I love you guys.
When I wake up in the morning
I breathe in God.
I breathe in God
and I exhale love
and I breathe in
the power of God
within me.
I breathe out
the grace of God
that surrounds me.
And,
I,
I read the,
the third step prayer
and the seventh step prayer
and then I do a mantra.
I go,
mmm,
money,
money,
money,
money,
money,
money.
Thank you very much.
Okay,
well now we'll open up
for questions.
Anybody have any questions?
Oh,
there's one.
Hey,
can you talk about,
you grew up in a sober family.
All your brothers
were sober.
I think you're all sober.
Your mother was sober.
Your son was sober.
Your wife was sober.
Tell me the pros and cons
of that,
that whole situation.
What,
you know,
how did that manifest
for yourself?
What helped you?
John asked me
if I grew up
in a sober family
and how that benefited me.
Well,
my mom wasn't sober.
My mom was a dry drunk
and she never,
after my dad died,
she just stopped drinking
and she was an untreated Al-Anon.
So,
I grew up in that kind
of a household.
Um,
um,
and,
um,
my oldest brother,
when I was,
I think my oldest brother,
Jim,
who passed away
about eight years ago,
he died sober.
He had 22 years of sobriety.
He was the first one
to go to Alcoholics Anonymous
when I was 13
and,
uh,
he,
uh,
came home,
he was sent to AA
by the courts
and he came home
with the 20 questions
and we were all drinking
and getting high
and he,
we,
we read the 20 questions
and so,
at 13,
I knew I was an alcoholic.
My brother,
John,
read most of them
and he knew that
he better not answer
yes to any more.
so we kind of like,
the,
the seed was kind of planted.
Um,
John was my Eskimo
when I was 16 years old.
The first,
the very first AA meeting
I went to,
I had really long hair.
Um,
we talk about this a lot.
I had really long hair.
I was wearing no shirt
and no shoes.
I was wearing Levi's,
I think.
My brother,
John,
had,
uh,
patch pants on.
He was wearing,
uh,
six inch patent leather
platform shoes
and he had a big
roach feather
for an earring
and a big,
big white streak
in his hair,
you know.
And his girlfriend,
Kath,
has really well endowed
and she was wearing
overalls,
you know,
and no shirt,
you know,
just overalls.
It was really hot.
It was a Sunday afternoon.
We walked into the Pacific
group on a Sunday night.
You know,
I'm 16 years old.
There's no teen,
there's no kids.
There really were
no 16 year olds.
Um,
June was here probably
but I,
I don't know,
I don't know
if I was in 1975.
I guess she was here.
Yeah,
so,
but there weren't,
I think that was it.
and Harry was the other one
but Harry's no longer.
Anyway,
so,
and we,
we met this guy Dave
and Dave 12-stepped us
and John stayed.
And so,
um,
what happened,
the benefit of John
being sober first
was I saw John's life
just gradually get better.
He had,
he went from wearing,
having that long hair
and,
and the popcorn shoes
and to,
he got a,
he used to wear
those three-piece suits
and he's always
wearing a tie
and he's always,
he'd always get up here
and fix his hair
and fix his tie
like Rodney Dangerfield.
He was always cracking,
he was just,
he was always having fun.
There was no more drama
in his life.
He wasn't going to jail anymore.
He wasn't getting into trouble anymore.
And he just became an example.
He never told me
to go to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting.
But every time I got arrested,
he'd pick me up
and he,
I'd call him
and ask him for help
and he would pick me up
but never told me
to go to an AA meeting
and I would just kind of
go with him.
So he 12-stepped me
and,
and then my little brother,
I don't know if you guys
ever tried to commit suicide
but I tried to commit suicide
with a track two razor.
I don't know if you've ever done that
but it's really hard.
But my little brother
used a steak knife
and he cut his arms
like eight times
on both sides.
And then,
he didn't tell me about it
and then,
because he was afraid
that I would be upset with him
and then he got sober
after that
for a little while.
Then he went back out again
and he drank.
And the next time he drank,
he,
he overdosed on heroin.
And he died
and they brought him back to life.
And then he didn't want
to tell me about that
because he thought I was,
I'd be upset with him.
So,
the next thing that happened
was he lived down
in an apartment building
on Barrington
and he got high again
and he drank.
His sponsor was a guy
named Vernon.
And Vernon called me
and he said,
you know,
your brother just,
he tried to commit suicide.
Luke went up on the,
on the power lines
of his building
and grabbed onto him
and he burned his hands down.
He lost his fingers
and he electrocuted himself
and,
and he,
Luke's the drummer.
He's a really good drummer.
And,
he still wasn't ready.
You know,
so,
but we just loved him
until,
that's not really the truth.
What happened was
Vernon asked me
if I'd meet him at the meeting.
I met him at the
Pico Alano Club
and Luke was like,
Luke looked at me
and he goes,
you know,
I just want to die.
And so I did
what most of you guys
would do.
I hit him.
Just punched him.
I grabbed him.
I go,
let's go get a rope.
I'll hang you right now.
And anyway,
he's been sober ever since.
No,
it's not true.
but,
and then my brother,
Jim,
got sober
and,
it's been a really
wonderful thing
to have us all here.
Thanks,
John,
for the question.
Keith.
Thank you,
Matt.
Thank you for your service.
What was,
you mentioned some
of your amends,
but what was the most
profound one
that you would
carry in this day and age?
Thank you.
Oh, the question was,
what was the most profound
amends that I made in my life?
I think the first one
was to my mom.
You know,
it,
it,
the harm that was done
to her was,
that I felt like
it did to her
was just so
insane,
you know.
I mean,
just the
insanity of it.
I was completely
out of control.
I was completely out of control.
You know,
I was,
and she was always
there for me,
and,
you know,
it's,
it's,
but,
you know,
it's kind of,
it was embarrassing,
too,
you know.
One of my,
one of my girlfriends,
I mean,
there was a lot of drinking.
There was a lot of drinking
in my house,
and I,
and I had no,
I had no switch to,
I wouldn't listen to her at all.
And,
anyway,
I got,
that was to my mother,
you know.
It's hard to make an amends
sometimes with some of the stuff
that,
you know,
incomprehensible demoralization
that,
that came out of that.
But it was freeing,
and,
and that,
that would be it
to my mom.
Thanks.
When you fall into a dark space,
what is your sort of
first call to anybody?
When I
fall into a dark space,
what's the first call I make?
I call my sponsor.
I talk to my,
Howard,
and,
or I call somebody
on the program.
You know,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
I,
you know,
for me,
in a dark space
would be for me,
sometimes I think about,
like,
things that have happened
in,
in a morbid,
reflective kind of a way,
and I,
I could really
work my way
into a depressive,
depressed state.
So I've got,
like,
I've got,
I had some things
happen with my brain,
and,
and,
and I had this cancer,
and then I have,
I have some,
I have some cysts in my brain,
and,
and I have,
every now and then,
I get these cluster headaches,
and I,
and I'm supposed to get MRIs
every six months,
and,
and I started getting these MRIs
every six months,
and,
because they want to keep an eye
on these,
these cysts,
and I was having,
I have,
like,
whiteouts where everything goes,
and,
and last year I had a thing called,
I think it's GTA,
it's a,
what's it,
I had transient,
global transient amnesia,
where I,
I,
I was at my house,
and I,
I didn't know where I was,
I didn't know how I got there,
somehow or another,
my brother came and found me,
and he brought me to the hospital,
and,
for eight hours,
I,
I didn't know what was happening,
and,
it's funny,
because to think that I used to do that
for fun,
you know,
but,
so,
so,
when I thought,
like,
anybody here would think,
you know,
like,
when I found out that I had cysts in my brain,
and then you see the scarring in my,
I've got these scars in my brain,
like,
I've got,
in the MRIs,
it just shows all this,
like,
trauma from all the head injuries,
and,
and,
I knew there was something wrong,
I knew there was something wrong with me,
other than alcoholism,
I knew it,
I knew it,
like,
we all know it,
I know it,
you know,
it's a hangnail,
you know,
whatever it is,
and I'm convinced that there's something else wrong with me,
and the more I thought about it,
I just,
I could barely even move after a while,
so,
I did what anybody else would do,
I don't know about anybody else,
but what I did was,
I just kind of got,
slowly but surely,
started walking through that,
and knowing that I'm not a,
I'm not a doctor,
I don't want to be a doctor,
I don't want to,
you know,
I got to a place where I don't do the MRIs anymore,
because I don't,
you know,
it's going to be what it's going to be,
and I don't really,
you know,
it's,
I,
I,
I won't do them every six months,
but it created such a darkness,
and I don't,
you know,
it doesn't really matter,
you know,
it doesn't really,
it doesn't,
I don't,
I don't want to be different than anybody,
I don't want to,
that's the thing too,
is I don't want to be different than anybody anymore,
I just want to be amongst everybody here,
like being secretary of this meeting,
was the greatest commitment that I've ever had in my sobriety,
I mean,
if I had had this 20 years ago,
I might have,
you know,
I just wanted to be a servant,
like I just wanted to,
whatever,
whatever is best for the group,
I don't,
you know,
I just want to be of service,
I don't,
I don't want to,
my way,
whatever,
I don't,
there is no,
my way is your way,
unless we're alone,
then it's my way,
but you know what I mean,
it's just like,
I just want to be amongst us,
and how important we all are,
and how important the newcomer is,
and how important that we're here tonight,
sober,
like,
and that we get to have sober breasts,
and that,
you know,
that for 38 years,
I haven't had a drink or a drug,
and,
you know,
I'm grateful for that,
and so I,
so when I go to,
how I stay out of a dark place now,
what I do now is,
because I used to,
so if I can,
I could play the tape of how my life's going to fall apart,
but I could also play the tape that everything's great,
I could look at my life,
and I could wake up in the morning and say,
I love my life,
my life's great,
I love my life,
and I can,
and I could do a mantra in my head,
where everything's okay,
and I'll do,
God is good,
God is good,
God is good,
God is good,
you know,
breathe in God,
exhale love,
I used to think I was crazy,
because I used to drive around the streets,
and I'd be like,
I'd be,
you know,
I was trying to replace,
you know,
anger of people cutting me off with good thoughts,
and so,
when somebody would cut me off,
I would hold on to that anger for six hours sometimes,
you know,
so I'd be driving around,
thinking to myself,
chanting in my head,
God is good,
God is good,
God is good,
and I used to think,
I'm crazy,
but,
you know,
I don't know what happened,
but somewhere,
after doing that for a certain amount of,
eight years or so,
I had a shift in consciousness,
where I don't feel that way anymore,
and the,
the,
the committee in my head is good,
it's quiet,
it's really quiet,
it's,
it's quiet,
which is amazing,
I'm comfortable in my own skin,
like 99.9% of the time,
with all my imperfections,
and I've got a lot of them,
you know,
and,
but you guys keep telling me it's okay to have them here,
so I'm going to keep coming back,
so I can keep talking about it,
so here,
thanks.
How does my relationship,
with my son evolve,
since he had the disease?
My son's 30 years old,
he's never seen me drink,
and,
he,
it's,
it's,
he grew up in the AA,
you know,
he grew up,
I carried him around in the carrier,
he grew up here,
he went to all the meetings,
with me,
he never,
he's not,
he drinks,
he's not,
his mom,
and I had talked,
and his mom asked,
we were at a,
party a couple years ago,
and his mom,
looked at him,
and looked at me,
and she said,
tell your dad what you did,
and I looked at him,
I go,
what'd you do?
And he goes,
I got really drunk the other night,
I go,
what happened?
He goes,
well,
I was driving home,
and I was too drunk to drive,
so I pulled over,
and went to sleep,
I go,
I looked at,
I was like,
oh my God,
that's a good thing,
you're not like one of us,
you know,
we keep driving,
until we hit stuff,
so we got to get home,
we got places to go,
so she got mad at me,
anyway,
we have a great relationship,
he's,
works all,
he's got a great job,
you know,
he's,
he's really,
he's the head of the IT department,
at one of those,
video game places,
and,
that develops,
you know,
video games,
and he's just,
I'm really happy for him,
he's,
he's such a,
he's such a gift,
thanks,
thanks for asking.
You've got a lot of time to sit,
do more of these,
do you think back to the point,
when you were a kid,
you know,
with milestones,
like in the gym,
when you told me your first birthday,
or something,
that was,
you started thinking,
you know,
you had to get sober,
oh yeah,
so the question was,
I've been sober for a long time,
can I talk about the things,
in my first year,
in my first milestones,
that made me feel like,
this might work,
so my first year of sobriety,
was,
I don't want to scare anybody off,
but,
and if you might,
you may or may not be like me,
but,
it doesn't matter,
just,
I couldn't really talk,
when I got here,
I had audible,
and visual hallucinations,
I couldn't read,
I couldn't coherently,
put anything together,
if I was in a book study,
I would read,
the paragraph,
that I was supposed to read,
until I got to my part,
to read it,
and then I would read it,
and I would stumble,
on every single word,
and I wouldn't be able,
to comprehend,
what I was reading,
and wouldn't retain,
any information,
and,
you guys never corrected me,
and you guys allowed me,
to do that,
and you would clap for me,
after I was done reading,
and I was,
I was comfortable with that,
I think,
you know,
when I got,
my life was so bad,
when I got here,
I really held on,
to the hope,
that one day,
things would change,
and my life would get better,
but I didn't think it would,
when I,
when I got here,
I wanted,
if I could get,
a minimum wage job,
if I could just get,
a minimum wage job,
and maybe rent a room,
from somebody,
and I could ride my bicycle,
or get a moped,
like I had,
like,
like I had,
my sponsor at the time,
goes,
he goes,
you're going to be just fine,
and he goes,
you know,
and he told me something too,
it was really important,
he says,
you know,
he says,
just get a,
whatever job you're getting at,
he says,
let me tell you a little secret,
he says,
as a newcomer,
you're in the R&D business,
and I go,
he goes,
you know what that is,
I go,
no,
he says,
research and development,
he says,
so if you get a job at a gas station,
people in AA ask you what you do for a living,
you're in the oil business,
he says,
you get a,
you know,
you get a job at the movie theater,
taking tickets,
you're in the movie business,
it's going to move,
you're going to move up,
don't worry about it,
and,
and it was just like,
I think,
just coming to this meeting,
and hearing Norm Alpey speak,
was the first time I laughed,
and I,
the laughter of like,
of,
that there was people in here laughing over this disease,
and that people felt like I felt,
and you guys knew how I felt,
and you guys allowed me to be okay,
you guys made me feel okay with all,
really,
with everything that was going on,
and you guys kept telling me it was going to be okay,
I believe,
I believed you,
I believed Doc Oxon,
so,
anyway,
if you're new tonight,
if you got stuff going on,
it's going to get better,
I promise you it will change,
I promise you it will get better,
I promise,
I promise,
so,
anyway,
anyway.
Thank you so much for that,
but,
can you talk about how your relationship with your sponsor,
Howard P.,
has really enhanced your life?
So,
Jerry wants to know how Howard P. has enhanced my life.
He's embarrassing sometimes,
so,
well,
Howard,
Howard has really enhanced my,
my connection with the higher power,
and also work,
and the steps in ways,
in all areas of my life,
all the time.
Howard and I work the steps,
Howard,
when I talk to Howard,
we only talk about steps,
that's all we ever do,
it's always about the steps,
but Howard,
when I first met Howard,
he was talking about God a lot,
so,
when I wasn't ready to hear about God,
I would just kind of not listen,
but he would just keep going on anyway,
and then when I was ready to hear about God with Howard,
he would,
you know,
Howard doesn't stop talking about God until,
until you fall asleep,
you know,
and he talks with the best,
he starts with the Big Bang Theory,
right,
it's,
it's 14 and a half billion years ago,
and,
and he talks about the gases,
and the heliums,
and the atoms,
and you know,
and everything that connects together,
and if you guys like taking acid,
you got to talk to Howard about God,
so it's just so similar,
because it just keeps going on,
and on,
and on,
and you think,
when's it going to end,
I got to get off this stuff,
but,
but he,
he never stopped with,
he knew I wasn't getting it,
Howard knows that I didn't get it,
and he never stopped,
he never gave up on me,
he never stops telling,
you know,
when I do my four step with him,
and then,
and then,
and then I do it the way I want to,
and then he says,
well,
this is how we're going to do it now,
this is how I'm doing it,
I'm going to,
actually,
actually,
I'm going to start mine right now,
and this is how I'm going to do it,
and I go,
okay,
I'll do it your way,
so,
you know,
and then,
but,
you know,
I used to,
when I was on the,
I was working for a band,
and Howard was living in Phoenix,
and they were playing at the Arizona State,
that the,
the big,
the football field,
and there was a,
it was a sold out concert,
and Howard,
you know,
insisted on talking to me about God,
at the break,
right in front of the band,
like,
and so,
we're backstage,
and I'm in a chair,
like,
we're sitting face to face with each other,
and God,
you know,
Howard never,
you know,
God's everywhere,
and I actually did that with Howard,
and I never felt,
it was,
it really wasn't that embarrassing after all,
it just,
it just,
you know,
Howard's made me feel,
a connection to,
it's actually introduced me,
reinvented my higher power,
so that I can see that,
you know,
we talk about,
upon awakening,
you know,
upon awakening,
we ask God's direction,
throughout the day,
we pause,
and ask for God's next,
direct,
right thing to do,
you know,
when we retire at night,
we pause throughout the day,
I mean,
all the time,
we're supposed to be looking,
and talking to God,
and other than that,
there's very little part with God,
that we have during the day,
but even knowing,
that we're supposed to do that all the time,
I don't,
I don't,
you know,
unless I'm talking about it,
I'm forgetting about it,
and unless I'm present,
constantly talking about it,
one of the great gifts Howard gave me,
is that,
when I worked the steps with him,
just recently,
you know,
I had like,
the profound experience again,
doing my fourth,
and fifth step with Howard,
and I just had this incredible experience,
and this spiritual connection,
we watched this,
Chuck C thing,
and we did the,
you know,
we do first step,
but then we do the second step,
and then we go back,
and do the first step again,
and do the second step,
and then the third step,
and then the first,
second,
third,
and then you do the fourth,
and then the fourth,
you do the fifth,
you do the,
you know,
it's all cumulative,
and I just had this incredible,
out of body,
you know,
just,
I felt this connection to a higher power,
that I just,
that,
and Howard said,
you know,
it's your responsibility,
to give to other people,
that we have to give it to other people,
and that we need to do that,
as much as we can,
and,
I don't know that I do it,
as much as he does,
I want to be,
more like Howard,
and give it back more,
than he is,
as much as he does,
and,
but,
but I have not yet done that,
but anyway,
but thanks for the question.
One more question.
Hi.
Thanks.
What was the,
you said it really quickly,
creative intelligence,
and then the,
the,
what is it,
the,
isn't it Howard's definition?
Well,
it's kind of like in the big book,
but it's also,
being conscious of a pervasive presence,
of a creative intelligence,
underlying the,
totality of all things,
is the answer to all my problems.
My only problem ever,
is not having my way,
you know,
so,
that's kind of sort of,
how that works.
Anyway,
thanks for,
thanks for having me,
thanks a lot.
Thank you.