Big Book Workshop – Aaron P. – 2020 New England Weekend

Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Karian, and I am an alcoholic. Welcome to the breakout session. It's 12 Traditions, Principles Before Personalities with Aaron P. from Millberry. And the way this session will run, it will run for 45 minutes, and the format is that the facilitator will share their experience for 10 to 15 minutes on the topic, and then open it up for you to share your own experience or ask questions. Everyone is encouraged to participate. Please join me in welcoming Aaron. Hello, everybody. My name is Aaron, a recovered alcoholic. Thank you for the privilege of being able to be here. It means a lot to me to be able to do this. And it's been a great weekend so far, up until now, but we'll see where it goes. For me, by the grace of God, Fellowship Alcoholics and Non-Business and Good Sponsorship, I've had a head of drinks since October 1st, 2006. And it's been an interesting ride. So skipping over a lot of the other stuff, through a series of events, I ended up in the halls of Alcoholics Anonymous. And I just wanted to stop suffering. I just wanted to stop. I don't know what was wrong. I just, I was living in a land of suck. I just wanted to stop. And for me, when I ended up coming into the halls of Alcoholics Anonymous, I had no experience. I mean, I personally love Alcoholics Anonymous, but there's no experience of Alcoholics Anonymous where I need a meeting after the meeting. And when I came in, I was, I mean, I'm a love, I love people watching. And when I came in, I was like a sponge, just watching all this different stuff and stuff like that. And I heard lots of different messages, right? But every once in a while, I see kind of like, I refer to it as a bright spot type stuff, right? I hear somebody that I can relate to, and they seem comfortable and confident. And I come to find out, man, that they were, they were working the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and they were, you know, even, even to a higher level type stuff. I don't know if higher level is the right terminology, but, but through several of them, I started learning about the 36 principles of Alcoholics Anonymous. I learned about the three legacies. I listened to them share about the 12 steps for recovery and the 12 traditions for unity and the 12 concepts for service. And then hearing them talk about how the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous helps prevent suicide and how the 12 traditions. Alcoholics Anonymous Helps Prevent Homicide and how the 12 Concepts of Alcoholics Anonymous Helps Prevent Genocide. And it mean a lot to me. And when I started going my first couple of years in Alcoholics Anonymous, I went to several young people's conventions around the country and up in New England area. And for me, my experience, again, this is just my experience, maybe different from others' case or is that when I went to these conferences, I went with a bunch of people I was hanging around with. And I got to watch them, you know, running loose for the weekend, playing, you know, trying to get some tail and all this other stuff. But one of the things I really appreciated is I was like a sponge. And then there would be these one, two-hour workshops during these weekends to talk about the traditions. And then I would get some different exposure to this type of stuff. And it means a lot to me today, right? Because something I heard from the speakers today that stuck with me throughout the year, is this whole concept of shrink Aaron, grow God. Like I wanted to find God at one point, like I wanted to figure God out. But I come to find out is that I get to find God by shrinking my own ego. And I come to find out these 12 steps, these 12 traditions are all about ego deflation, you know, ego deflation at depth. And over my process, my experience, I get to see these 12 traditions are in order. You know, kind of like how the steps are, and they kind of build off each other. Like, you know, and then there's a, I don't want to say ending, but on the 12th step, it means something. For example, step one, I get to find out, I got this thing called alcoholism. When I put a couple of drinks in my body, I lack the power of control. When I'm stone cold sober, I have a wish and necessity to stay with the first drink. I lack the power of choice. And there's that dash, there's that unmanageability. And the unmanageability of me running my life is either stone cold sober or drunk. And, when I come to find out, it's that spiritual malady. And at one point in time, a couple of drinks treat that spiritual malady, and it no longer does. And if I got this thing called alcoholism, maybe alcoholism anonymous can be a treatment for it, and I can recover from alcoholism. And then going through all the steps, as we heard over the weekend, we get down to step 12. And the solution to my alcoholism is that spiritual awakening, spiritual experience, vital cycle change. And that's laid out in the 12th step. And then the 12th step talk about carrying this message, you know, these steps to other alcoholics. And then to practice these principles and all our affairs. And for me, I remember, going to meetings for a while, and I heard people talk about the principles of AA, right, the principles of the step. And they would use these one liners, what one word, right, like step one, the principle is honesty. So if I can just practice honesty, I'm working step one, but I find out I had a son that I was able to do years ago, he was in youth football, and his step dad was a head coach i was an assistant coach and i got to watch we did this calisthenic drills and we run around the kids were running around and at the very end they would go from one end of the field to the other and we had these tackling dummies up there and they had a football on top of it because i learned more about myself from watching other people man and i watched my son was the first one to go and and the idea was you run as fast as you can you wrap up on the tackling dummy and you recover the fumble well my son sees this he runs across runs fast as he can slows way down hits the tackling dummy with just enough force to dislodge the football and then easily recovers the fall the ball football and it's like i get that i want to get from a to e which is doing as little as possible even though i'm missing the lessons of b c and d and and that really is what would help me to understand that maybe these 12 steps as i laid out these 12 traditions as they're laid out i have to look what they actually say as opposed to what i believe they say so um so i get to a place where all right so i got these like these i can see that these 12 steps if i if i practice them the way that they're actually laid out as opposed to the way i believe that they're laid out i get certain results and i get better results as i continue to do that right because one of the things i hear about out recover from alcoholism is is i have to be wrong quite a bit i'm often quite wrong i don't like that i want to be right and um i don't like being wrong anyways so uh so then i get to the point where i start start diving into these traditions and and for me when i started learning about these traditions i didn't want to do it because i'm a good guy and humble person type stuff i wanted it to get a little bit of power over somebody else to get a little bit of knowledge to be smugly superior than the next person type stuff to say look how you're breaking the tradition type stuff and be able to i don't know hody toady type stuff and and again and it's only through experience and i love this is a phrase i heard like bop it to your drop you just continue on what i'm doing for as long as i can and i'm i can take it and as the years goes on i i start seeing how these traditions really help me in my a life then eventually in my personal life type stuff and and so when i get to find out in that first tradition right is my major problem is unity the first step i get to find out my major problem is powerless over alcohol dash my life's unmanageable in my in for the traditions my interaction with the groups my major problem is unity and i get all the way down to two you know tradition 12 to find out what the what the ultimate solution is and then as i go through these traditions i can see now how they build up right so i got the unity step tradition one tradition two god is our ultimate authority expressing a group conscience tradition three our membership ought to include also from alcoholism to be able to and we don't care what other problem you have but you have alcoholism i don't care if we are a compulsive gambler eater you got this heroin problem crack problem whatever but do you have alcoholism and i found that's very very inclusive very very important to me and four i get to have you know each group has autonomous they get to have it gives them the right to be wrong five we talked about earlier in the day you know each group is a spiritual entity having just the one primary purpose of carrying its message and six we're trying to avoid property and prestige and power to divert us from our spirit primary spiritual aim seven i get to stop being a taker i start being a giver by by having this um by being uh fully self-supporting through our own contributions and eight i get to do this aa work i don't get paid for it i don't have to i don't get paid for counseling alcoholics and carrying this 12-step message and nine i get to like this one tradition i'll probably never break like we should be least organized right ten is we have a ton ten would be great to have on a consistent basis having no opinion on outside matters it's crazy and 11 our public relation is is about attraction rather than promotion and then i get to 12 right and and let's want to share this really quickly and i'm going to share this with you because i'm going to share this with you really quick is i wrote this uh i typed it up because it's important to me right is i come to find out is that not only do these traditions which which weren't in like it's a big book workshop the traditions weren't in the first edition of alcoholics anonymous they weren't accepted until 1950 and they these came into the um into the into the second edition is also i get to find out that the traditions i get to see on wallpaper and meetings for a long time the short form is given to us in the long form and and i got to find out nobody likes the long form because they're long and like it takes away from me talking about me the meeting type stuff so but each one of those traditions the long form i think gives me a lot more information per se a lot more meat to it as opposed to uh what i think they mean and so the short form for tradition 12 anonymity is a spiritual foundation of all our traditions and i believe that today that anonymity is about shrinking air and grow god it's about deflating that ego i get all the way from unity having disunity hopefully getting unity and how do i get that is by being being having this anonymity being another bozo on the bus it's not all about me type stuff it's about being other centered and all this other crazy stuff that when i came in wasn't important to me and then then i love this part where it goes ever reminding us to place principles before personality and when i first heard that i was a great weapon man i get to use the principles of the 12 steps of alcoholist nominees and the 12 traditions before your personalities and i come to find out over over a long enough period of time that's not how this works for me i have to place these principles and these steps before my personality you know such as tradition two it really helped me to see that i need to give i need to give my group we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have when we're having a business meeting, as much information as possible so the group can make an informed decision, even if that decision goes against what I believe is right. And that's tough. And again, following all these others, taking the action, having the attitude and action of all these traditions gives me a place where it helps me to shrink me, shrink Aaron, and grow God. And that goes contrary to my natural instincts, what I do on my own. And then the long form for it makes it a little bit more meat to me, right? And finally, I mean, I love that when I saw that originally. When I hear somebody read all the long forms, it's something I think somebody added to it, right? Finally, after reading all these traditions, we of Alcoholics Anonymous, and I get to, right? When I first started going to meetings, it was your meeting, and I get to be a part of you. And slowly over a little bit over time, it shifted to become, it's my meeting. I'm a part of this. I'm a part of this. We heard it earlier, this greater whole, because without Alcoholics Anonymous, I heard about this, the variety of religious experience, when one of the concepts that the book puts forth is when Bill read it when he was down at Towns Hospital, when having his last detox, is that people would get these spiritual experiences, these overwhelming God consciousness. But for most people, it's transitory. It's only to last so long. And I need to keep up connecting to this power, cleave that chain of clear by continuing to be a member of Alcoholics Anonymous and participating in it and such. So believe that the principle of anonymity has immense spiritual value. And I think that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to keep up connecting to this power, cleave that chain of clear by continuing to be a member of Alcoholics Anonymous and participating in it and such. So believe that the principle of anonymity has immense spiritual value. And I think that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to keep up connecting to this power, cleave that chain of clear by continuing to be a member of Alcoholics It reminds us, reminds me, that I'm to place principles, you know, these principles before my personality, and that we actually to practice a genuine humility. And that's not, that's not to think. And one of the things about humility, it's like 12 by 12 talked a lot about in step seven. And it's a lot about like, not, not necessarily thinking less of myself, but thinking of myself less often. Like I came in, I heard a guy share this, and I related to it immensely. He said, he came in, he felt like he was a whale turd, very special whale turd, but a whale turd, nonetheless. And I got that, man, I thought about myself a lot, more than anybody else. Anyways, so to this end, that our great blessings may never spoil us. Isn't that like a great warning to me, to me, that like, it's about resting my laurels, you know, if I, if I, if I, if I stopped taking this action, if I stopped rowing a boat, if I stopped working with others, and I stopped like carrying this message, to other alcoholics, I'm going to start drifting away. And that, that, that spiritual malady will start creeping away and eating away at me. And eventually it'll block me off from God. And I won't have that effective mental defense. And the obsession will creep back in. Eventually I'll drink and drink as a die. And not just, not necessarily physically, but emotionally and spiritually. So never spoil us, that we shall ever, forever live in a thankful contemplation of him, capital H, code. Right. Who presides over us all. And I'm grateful that one of the definitions of meditation is thoughtful contemplation. And when I see that contemplation now, it's like, it gives me the, you know, I can thankfully contemplate, I can thankfully meditate about what God's done for me, what God is. I don't know. I like how the previous speaker ended off with, for me to describe God is, um, is wildly inaccurate, you know, unable to do that type of stuff. And whenever I, whenever I, whenever I, whenever I, whenever I, whenever I, whenever I, whenever I even try to start doing that, I fail miserably, but all I can do is share my experience about my interaction with this power I call God. And so this, again, this 12th tradition, man, be able to get to a place where, you know, I have this, I have this humility, hopefully that I can practice the 12 steps and the 12th tradition of alcoholist anonymous before my personality. So I love to hear what you guys have to share. Well, uh, thank you very much. Thank you so much, Aaron. That was awesome. I love your passion. Um, so this, uh, hold on wrong paper. Sorry. Okay. So, um, so now the, um, session's going to be open for discussion and you may share your experience or ask questions by raising the hand that's in the, uh, participant list. And when I see it and call on you, you should be able to unmute yourself. I believe that feature is there now. I'll share again. Go ahead, Jeff. Hi, I'm Jeff. I'm an alcoholic. Good to hear you, Aaron. Um, so I'm, I don't know. I've been, I go to meetings with Aaron, uh, locally and, uh, I'm definitely getting into this tradition stuff. He definitely has a wealth of knowledge. Um, so, I mean, I, I like how he kind of talked about the, the ego deflation, um, when it comes to like tradition 12. Um, I remember when I first, you know, got sober, found AA, you know, I kind of wanted to let everybody know Jeff was doing well and this and that, and, you know, everybody at my job and post, and on Facebook and, you know, and I didn't know what I didn't know, you know, now I look back and I, I read like the, um, the 12th tradition and the 12 and 12 and it, you know, it talks about how, you know, how damaging it could be to Alcoholics Anonymous if we, um, weren't anonymous because, you know, I could, um, you know, I'd say, uh, you know, I have a management job in my company. We have a big company Facebook page and, and I'm posting Jeff, uh, or, or even my personal Facebook page. Well, for an example, like if I'm saying I'm a member of AA and, um, you know, I love this. And then a few months later, I go out and relapse or something and, and, and I'm drinking and stuff, you know, what kind of example does that show, um, to people who are still out there, you know, they, they see, they'd say, oh, hey, it doesn't work, you know, and, and that's kind of my understanding. Of how important the, um, the 12th tradition is. And in the, in the, um, 12 and 12, I just kind of opened it up and I had something underlined on that. And we, it says we, we are sure that humility expressed by anonymity is the greatest safeguard that Alcoholics Anonymous can ever have. And, um, you know, that, that's plain as, as, as day. And it's the last, I think it's the last sentence in that chapter. Um, but you know, that's kind of, you know, that's all I got. Thanks. Thanks, Jeff. Thank you, Jeff. Would anybody else like to share? All right. I'm Carrie and I'm an alcoholic. And just because I can't stand silence, I tried to, I tried to, I tried to, I tried to, I tried to, I tried to, I tried to, I tried to, thank you guys so much for sharing. Oh, so, you know, it's amazing. I, I, I love hearing about people when they say, you know, when I'm me centered versus God centered and in my life now been sober about just over four years now. And it, and it took me a couple of years to get there and really truly understand what that meant. And when you look at tradition 12 and just applying these principles and all our affairs as a school teacher, um, you know, I always kind of had that a little bit of that type a personality. I come in a big family of there's nine of us. And, um, I've always kind of had that controlling people kind of need to be on my schedule because it's the right schedule. And I never really understood how to sort of like, I didn't think I had an ego problem. I just thought that that I was just everything, all my expectations on everybody around me was normal. And so, you know, when I think about being more God centered, I think about that pause. I can have now, I don't need to tell people what to do when the person in front of me, you know, it's taking too long to order their food, you know, and now I have a little compassion. What's going on in their life. Sometimes I'll look down and the other day they were taking a long time and I'm like, what's going on. And I saw like a veterans symbol and it was an older gentleman. And I just thought to myself, my God, two, three, four years ago, even sober, I would have been crazy. I think just, you know, looking at the, the principles and trying as hard as I can to let God into my life. I pray every morning on my way to work. I just ask him to please remove the defects of characters. And I don't know that day, which ones he's going to remove. I just hope they're the right ones. And I allow that to happen. And I, and I have a pause button now at work. I have this little gem that I keep. And when I start to feel like I'm getting worked up, whether it's an expectation from my boss, something with one of my students, teaching assistant, I'm like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. And I just hold that. And I know to just keep my mouth shut and it will pass. And I just think, thinking of all these things that I've learned throughout the years has really gotten me to a place now where, you know, I can live every day doing my best and knowing that I don't have to pick up a drink no matter what. And that for me has just been just life-changing. And it's been a while since we've been to a retreat and I've, and this is my first Zoom one. So this has been very exciting. And so I just wanted to share that and hopefully somebody else would like to share. Thank you. You should be able to unmute yourself. Is it Victor? Yes. Hi. Thank you very much. Hi friends. I live in Toronto in the other half of what was our joint house. So I want to say that I'm new to AA, well, new-ish, but three, I quit on a mother's day without knowing anything about AA, anything. I didn't have a clue. I was one of these guys that, oh, you know, you're an alcoholic. Oh, am I? I didn't know. I didn't know anything. And, but anyhow, today is World Mental Health Day. And it's amazing to me that every singular answer that I never thought of before is in these rooms. And I want to, I want to send with absolute grace, the thank you from, if it's unsaid, well, it isn't unsaid because we're all here for a common purpose, but those that do serve that keep these rooms available to, to, you know, people like me, like this is absolute revelatory, every singular thing I ever hear. And I wanted to thank personally, all the speakers, all the contributors and all the attendees. And fall is an interesting time. So the colors are more vibrant now. And I have a joke, but I'm not, I'm going to save it for my own head. It's, but I will say it. I'm cured for today. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. We still have some time. If anybody would like to share. Let's see. Kate. Oh, yes. Sorry. Kate. I just have a little hand. No problem. I'm just, I'm sorry. I'm a little late. So what are we sharing about? I heard you speak and then I heard the next person. Tradition 12, placing principles before personalities. Ooh. Okay. Well, I'll just say that, um, I'm, I'm honestly, I'm learning the traditions right now, a lot more. So, uh, policing principles before personalities. I'm just going to say that it's really good to hear all this stuff from you guys. I need to hear it more. I'm working on my fourth step and, um, I'm going, I'm actually really excited because I'm driving on up to Salisbury right now where my book is. Someone told me like, well, if you're kind of stuck, just write down names. So, and I got that from meetings from you guys. So I just want to say, thank you. And, um, sorry, I don't have, uh, too much to say on that one, but I just, uh, I'll let somebody else share, but thank you. Um, all your guys is really appreciated. And I love you all. Thank you, Kate. Thank you, Kate. No, I'll go real fast. I am already. I'm an alcoholic and sorry, Carrie. And like, I can't, I don't have a blue hand to raise. Um, so Kathleen had mentioned when we were, um, had some still time earlier that our group is, um, uh, our women's group on Thursday night is, uh, doing traditions before the meeting, like, uh, traditions meeting before the meeting. And, um, sometimes I, I miss the boat on like what the tradition is really. Thank you, Aaron, for your service. But sometimes I really miss like, what is the tradition all about? So I need to like, look at this list of questions to prompt me for like, what does it really mean to me today as a member of AA? And so, um, I did, I popped the list of questions up and, um, when it, it talks about, um, especially like when COVID hit and everything. And, uh, at least for me, I was like, oh my God, I can't do zoom. I can't do this. I can't do that. Like if I, I can't go to a meeting, then if I can't like see my people, then, you know, I'm clearly I'm going to die. No, that's not how it was, but everybody had like this, these strong opinions when things were happening. When, uh, just the platform change and stuff. And, um, so one of the questions that I, you know, I just popped open the 12, uh, tradition 12, and there are two questions that kind of really came to my mind. It says, when I do not trust AA's current servants, who do I wish had the authority to straighten them out? And that made me think about, um, Aaron, Aaron's ready to bitch slap me. Um, no, the whole thing. About AA, right. Is that the power is in the people, right? So if I want to, if I want something to change or, you know, so we elect our servants, our, our, our, uh, the folks in service positions today, like our group, you know, we, someone volunteers, we send them to district, they go to area and they become our voice at like the AA global level. And sometimes at least for me, it's easier to sit back, bitch and complain, um, about what isn't happening instead of getting off my fanny and doing something about it. Um, so that's, that's really what that made me think of. Like, it's kind of like, um, put up, put up or shut up. Um, because I am, I am responsible for that. And, um, and I also like at least some, the groups that I belong to, we have, um, healthy group consciences and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, it's okay to share an unpopular opinion and things like that. Cause you know, we're always inviting God into that before we like start having some discussion. Um, and it's, we are, I just want to remind everybody, I guess, um, that everybody has a voice and, um, your voices is important, um, at all levels of AA inside your group. And then, you know, um, hearing what other groups are doing at like the district. And area levels. Um, so I just wanted to comment on that. And then, um, the other one that kind of caught my eye, to be honest, um, it there's, um, oh gosh, the, uh, it says, um, do I fulfill an all AA responsibilities in such a way as to please privately, even my own conscience. Right. And really that I think, um, you know, when Aaron, you were talking about the principles for each of the, um, for each of the steps, like, I thought that's all I had to do was like, try to be honest, try to be loving, try to be, you know, all these things. Um, I think the, the spiritual principles behind each of everything, each of the step steps, traditions and concepts, like each of them, like together, give me a framework to, to operate, operate life and how I interact with other people. Um, and sometimes I know, you know, sometimes I just, as soon as I start moving away from, from, from other alcoholics or, you know, try to maybe, um, doing, doing things more on my own instead of with God. Um, you know, that just turns into a disaster. It's like just a disaster waiting to happen, you know, and, um, staying connected is so important. Um, for me, because, um, without all you guys, you know, I'm just, I'm just a hot mess. And, um, it's people who are recovered alcoholics who helped keep me, you know, they're the ones who are going to ask me the tough questions, you know, um, and not co-sign, you know, I can call my sister who's not one of us and I can get her on my side like that, you know, my ally gathering. Oh, I, I, masterful at that. Um, but when I really need to hear the truth, um, especially when I don't want to, right. Um, it's you guys who can bring me back to center and keep me grounded. So, um, yeah, it's, um, that's all I got. Thank you so much, Aaron, for your service and carry in as well. Thanks. Thank you, Maureen, for sharing. And just remember Maureen, the truth will, set you free, but ruin your day first. No laughing. No, my favorite is it. Yes. This too shall pass. It might feel like a kidney stone. Okay. We have two hands raised. Um, so Ms. Maureen, if you'd like to, um, and, um, unmute yourself and then we have Kate. Hello. I'm Maureen. I'm an alcoholic. I miss all of you. And, um, it's good that you guys have it on zoom, but every time I think of this principles before personalities, it brings me back to the eighties when I first got sober, hadn't stayed sober guys. So, uh, you know, I've got a year and a half now, but I'm just remembering this woman who I, couldn't stand probably because I thought she was prettier than me, more outgoing than me had more of the guy's attention than me was a professional. So all of that envious bull stuff, but I'll never forget. I was hurting so bad and I was walking down the street and I knew she worked at the bank and, I'm telling you, this was such a God moment because I wanted to drink so bad that day. And I went in and I said, please, please, can you help me? I'm, I'm in a really bad place. And she helped me stay stopped for that one day. And it was such a powerful lesson for me that, you know, granted, I'm not gonna like everybody. And so I'm not going to like everybody in, in AA, of course, I love them in the sense that if anybody anywhere, it reminds me of the AA declaration, right? That I'm responsible if they reach out their hand and I would, I would help anybody despite how I might personally feel towards them. And that was just such a powerful example that she was just so kind and so willing and so able. And I could, you know, eat crow and just be really humble. And I think that's, you know, it's amazing how desperation can really make me, you know, so humble, but, you know, that's all I wanted to share. And now I'm going to go back to perming my wigs. Bye. Thank you, Maureen. Kate did have a hand up, but I don't see, oh, there she is. Kate, did you want to speak? Okay. Hi. So I rerun it. I think I missed the word that Aaron said. I'm in the car right now. And it was about a week ago. I was like, oh, I'm in the car. I'm in the car. I'm in the car. I'm in the car. I'm in the car. I'm in the car. I'm in the car. I'm in the car. I'm in the car. I'm in the car. I'm in the car. I'm in the car. I'm in the car. I'm in the car. And it's funny because I was just thinking, Catherine alcoholic, I was just thinking about this the other day. And okay. So basically I talked to somebody that I don't know if they'll be in the program or not, but it was really interesting. I had a conversation with her and she, you know, we're telling each other our stories and she hadn't heard of AA. You know what I mean? So for one, it just makes me think how lucky and blessed that we are, that we have this program. But I understand, I'm so glad this was brought up because I was like, you know, why, you know, not just her, but other people who have never heard of AA and, you know, not been able to get to that place. So I was just going to wonder about that. And it just explains it right there about how it protects the program. She had been a little nervous about it because of the anonymity thing. She didn't want everybody to know that she was going and stuff. And so, you know, I kind of explained a little bit, you know, about, you know, really most, like most people have the same fear and stuff like that. And I didn't get too into it because I didn't want to give her the wrong impression, but she, I showed her the app that, you know, I told her a little bit and told her what I do. And I gave, told her the app, there's that AA app with the big book on it. And she asked me what the big book was. And it was like the coolest question that I had ever been asked. And I was so glad that it was just like you were saying before. Or I don't know if it was somebody else, but they used to use it as a coaster. That's like what I would have like said, I would have joked around and like, yeah, like a big book, you can do that if you want. But like, you know, I just use it as a coaster. I go to meetings and stuff. So, and that works for me. But that obviously didn't work for me. I am a big meeting maker and I have a reason for it because that's where I hear, I hear so much good stuff out of meetings. So, and I love that. I feel like nowadays we're going in a new trend with the big book and the steps and everything. I feel like that's a good thing. I feel like that's a good thing. I just feel like that's, I sort of got, I feel like there was like a little trend where like, it was just kind of meetings or something because now everywhere I go, it's all big book and about the psychic change and all that stuff. So anyways, about anonymity though. So I wish I had read this a little bit or heard this before and I talked to her, you know, cause I get why that like, you know, why we can't advertise AA, you know, and be like, come on down, you know, come down to this meeting. But I get, you know, like it's in God's hands. Um, but I got to talk to her. I, that was the coolest thing. I got to talk to her. I got, she has, you know, got to tell her about my big book app. And then she asked me what the big book was. And then basically like, you know, she gets to find out. And, um, you know, I told her about like the meetings that I like, and all was from, oh, I gotta tell you this all from zoom. And I was telling her how good basically, you know, that I'm in recovery and how amazing you guys had put together zoom so quickly. I was like, I know there's glitches and stuff. I was like, but basically I was like, I'm a recovery and they put it together within 24 hours. And like, it's amazing what they did. It really is. Cause so many, I just, I'll say this real quick, so many businesses and things are doing zoom and you guys always have it perfect. And it really helps a newcomer. It does. Cause I've seen it in a lot of, a lot of meetings, um, people go and if it doesn't work, they're not going to stay there. Um, so I just want to say this has been awesome. Um, thank you for bringing this up again, uh, having this brought up, there's been so much I've been popping in now today because I'm in the car and sorry, I usually don't ramble this long. So I do apologize about that. So, um, uh, it's great to meet you guys. Um, thank you for bringing this up. Um, and now I know more about the 12th principle. Um, it's actually pretty stuck in my head right now. So thank you so much, Kate. Thank you for your service. Thank you very much. All right. I'll go mute. Thank you. Thanks Aaron.