Appointed Himself Spiritual Leader of Middle Tennessee While Still an Atheist 🤣 — Clarence

Good morning. Again, this workshop is designed around your participation, so I hope as many of you as care to will participate with us in this. We have a microphone down here in front. Our panel, and I think you're going to have a panel here to be thrown into. We would love to have you participate with us. If you noticed, in your program, our theme for this year's roundup is Steps to the Promises. Our, the 11th step, God is with us. We just struck the newcomers here this morning, and they can't do this until you've done 10 steps. And I don't think that's the intention in the whole book at all. We hope you'll jump right in there with us. I want to ask you. She told her husband that she was our token female on this panel. This is Nancy Poe. Next to her is Paul Ritchie. To my left is Jack Fletman. Jack insisted that he might go first, and our usual procedure is ladies first. So let's welcome Nancy to the panel. Thank you, Clarence. I'm Nancy, and I'm going to be the first to go. I'm Nancy, and I'm going to be the first to go. I'm an alcoholic. And being here today is proof of being where you're not supposed to be. Clarence caught me, I think, the first day we were here, and asked me what I was going to do for the 4th of July. And I told him I was going to come out here and spend the morning and then do whatever. And he said, oh, good, I've got something for you to do. And I've been taught that when asked, you say yes. So here I am. And I just wanted to share a little bit about what it was like, the God of my understanding, and what my understanding of God is today. First of all, I was a cradle Catholic. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, I was born Catholic and raised Catholic. And not that that's the Catholic belief, but my belief was that God was judging and he was punishing. And I also had this terrible feeling that there was something terribly wrong with me. I was bad, I was nasty, I was wrong. And that's the way that I felt that God was looking at me. And I was just waiting for everybody else to figure out what was wrong with me before I had a chance to figure it out. Um, I also felt like if I was doing something wrong, if I didn't pray to God, that somehow or another he didn't notice me. Um, and even in sobriety, when there were times when I felt like I wasn't doing the right thing, I would almost want to ignore my prayers and ignore God because I felt like somehow or another I was in hiding when I was doing that. I also felt like God was way too important for somebody like me. He had a lot of things to do and my little prayers were so insignificant that it was almost like I was bothered. And I think that went back to when I was in Catholic school. I remember there was a priest, Father Price. And I remember the man's telling us, don't say hello to Father Price. He doesn't have time. He's a very busy man and he doesn't have time. And I think that was sort of the, not that they taught me this, but that was sort of the feeling that I had about God. That he really didn't have a lot of time for me. Um, also when I got here, about the last couple of years that I was out there drinking, um, I was in church all the time. I went to Mass every Sunday. I would drop my son off in Catholic school and I'd go to communion every morning. I was saying rosaries and I was saying novenas. But it was all trying to make a deal with God. I would do a nine-day novena asking God, you know, to help me to stop drinking and smoking dope. Or I would ask God, you know, I was always making a deal. If you'll just, I'll do this nine-day novena and then, you know, maybe you'll give me a record deal. Or whatever it was that I was wanting at that time, that was the way that I was doing it. When I, another interesting thing is, um, my father died of alcoholism and he was kind of in and out of this program. I think the longest he ever stayed sober was about five and a half years. But when he died, I probably inherited the most valuable thing that he could have left me. And when he died, I ended up with his bedroom furniture. And in his bedside table was a 24-hour book. And for nine years before I ever came into this program, I would use that 24-hour book every day. I never read the AA thought for the day. I would read the prayer for the day and the meditation for the day. Not one time in nine years, because that didn't apply to me. And, uh, so anyway, when I got into sobriety, I found out that I had a different higher power. And my higher power, it was the moon in my life. And I think I learned from a really early age, and again, I'm not saying that this is what my mother taught me, but my parents were divorced when I was three years old. And, uh, when I wanted a new dress to go to school and she ordered some special dance and she'd say, we can't afford it. And I would say, but Cheryl McMillan's getting a new dress. And she'd say, well, Cheryl McMillan has a father. And so she can afford that new dress. You can't. Or I would say, why can't you go to the home and school association meeting? And she'd say, because I have to work. You don't have a father. And I have to be a mother and a father. And I have to work. And I can't be there. So somewhere or another, I got that message that, aha, all I really need is a man in my life. And that's going to be the answer to all my problems. And so the man that came into my life became my higher power. They told me how to be, what to think, where to go. They told me how to be. They told me who my friends could be. And I was comfortable with that. And I think really what it was is I knew that if there was a mistake made, it wasn't going to be my fault. That I could blame them for whatever the problem was because they were the ones that said this is how it's going to be. After I got into sobriety, I kind of ran out of relationships. And I was kind of in between higher powers. And I remember having what to me was probably as close as I've ever been to that burning bush type spiritual experience. I was lying in bed one night. Probably one or two o'clock in the morning. And like all good Catholic girls, I had a picture. It was called the Sacred Heart. It was a picture of Christ and he has this exposed heart. And I was lying there in bed, heartbroken and in tears and trying to figure out how I was going to make things go. And I remember looking and staring at that picture and I was praying. And all of a sudden, I don't know how, sometimes if you stare at somebody long enough, everything behind them will get either dark or either get light and all you see is that person. But I remember staring at that picture and all of a sudden it sort of became 3D. And my spiritual... My spiritual awakening was that that was my God. And that the God that I had grown up with, the God that was really the higher power, was never going to leave me, was never going to hurt me, would always be there. And so that was when I finally got in touch with the right higher power. The one that wasn't the man that was in my life at the time. I think it was about eight or nine years ago I came to my first roundup. I was kind of doing Clarence a favor. He asked me if I'd come out and help with what they call the right. And I said, no, I don't have that control at that time. We were standing at the doors watching for badges and so forth. He was the first time I'd ever heard the speakers, the type of speakers that you hear at a roundup. And I was just in awe. And I was going through a really difficult time in my life. I was probably between higher powers. And I would come out here at 8.30 in the morning and I would stay all day long. And I would stay until, you know, time to go at night until the last note of the music stopped. And I would go home and I'd cry all the way home. And I'd cry all the way back in. And at 8.30 I'd get here and I would forget everything and be here. And I wondered what the speakers were talking about having. And so I started trying to figure out what was the common thread that all of those speakers had. And one of the things was that they had really strong sponsorship. They talked about the steps. And most of all, they talked about spirituality. And I felt like those were the three things that I really didn't have going on in my recovery. My sponsor had moved to Florida and I was without a sponsor for about a year. And getting sicker and sicker by the day. So I went to clients and I told clients, you know, I need to find a sponsor. And so I set out for the next two days at Roundup to interview women for sponsorship. And I ended up with probably what I consider to be one of the best sponsors in Nashville. And so the first time that I met with my sponsor, it was like a week or so later, I started telling her about all my problems and trying to explain to her what I was all about. And she stopped me dead in my tracks and she said, you know what, I think you have a lack of power. And she put me on page 45 and she said, now read that to me. And I read, lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live and it had to be a power greater than ourselves. Obviously. But where and how will we define this power? And all of a sudden there was that total fear, oh my God, how do I do it? Where am I going to find this power? I don't have it. And she said, read on. And I read, well that's exactly what this book is about. It's main object. It's main object. It's to enable you to find a power greater than yourself which will solve your problem. And that was the beginning of my real recovery. That's when recovery really started for me. And I started getting into the book and I started getting into the steps and I started getting into a serious look at Alcoholics Anonymous. Not just going to meetings, not just talking to other people, but really doing the footwork. Also, the God that I understand today is really different than the God that I, I used to have. First of all, I know that there is no way that I can truly understand God. God is so powerful and so mighty in my life that there's no way that I can begin to try to understand God. But what I can do is I can have a relationship that I can understand. And part of that relationship, relationship is always seeking my higher power. It's like the relationship that I have with my higher power is like a relationship that I would have with my family members. My son, my mother, my husband. It's not something that I start and have a relationship and say, okay, this is it. I have to get up every morning and I have to renew that relationship. And that's what I do in the mornings and at night on my knees. And going through the third step prayer and the seventh step prayer. Third step prayer, turning my life and my will over to God. And having to remember that it's not, you know, it doesn't matter what goes on during that day. What really matters is that I let God be in control of my day and that it's not my business. And then the seventh step prayer, when I want to pray for God to remove this character defect and that one so that you'll love me more. Or I want him to remove this certain character defect because it makes me feel guilty. But what I have to remember to do, and Clarence and I used to argue over this all the time in his office when I used to work for him. The only thing that I can ask God to do is to remove the character defects that stand in the way of my service to God and my fellow man. And only my higher power, and I choose to call God as you've probably seen by now, it's only those character defects that he chooses to remove are the ones that I still have to do the footwork. But I can't tell God which ones to remove and which ones to leave. I loved what the speaker said the first night that we were here talking about, you know, her relationship with God. And for me, I find God everywhere if my eyes are open and I'm willing and accepting. God comes to me in sunsets. He comes to me, I don't know if you've ever noticed the feathers on a duck's back. Oh, the feathers. The green and the purple and all of those iridescent colors on a duck. And I look at that and I think only God could create that. I look at a zebra and I see the great big stripes all over and the men along the head or around the hooves where the animal actually gets smaller. You see little tiny stripes. And I think only God, the God of my understanding, the God that I want to have in charge of my life can do that kind of stuff. The God of my understanding speaks to me through my sponsor. Sometimes I tease and say that she has a direct line to God. I don't think she's probably interested. She's probably more special than anybody else's sponsor. But that's how God speaks to me. God speaks to me through the people in this program, through the meetings that I go to, and through the women that I sponsor. Today, my God is loving. He's humorous. And he does for me what I could never do for myself, as long as I'm willing to let him do it. And then I just want to touch a little bit on the 11th step, since that was what was in the program. One of the things that helped me with the 11th step is that my sponsor sat me down. One of the things that helped me with the 11th step is that my sponsor sat me down. And we went through it. And on page 86, where it has the first full paragraph, and it tells us, the interesting thing about the 11th step is it tells me exactly how to do this thing. And it's, you know, line by line. And what she had me do is she said, don't try to read it out of a book. Take that paragraph and number those directions. Put it on a little piece of paper. So what I did is I put it into my computer, and I put it on a little piece of paper so that it's almost like reading a recipe. And I have them numbered. But it tells me exactly what to do in the morning. Ask God to direct my thinking. Think about the 24 hours ahead. Consider the plans for the day. Relax. Take it easy. It tells me what to do during the day. Pause when agitated or doubtful. Huh, that's new. Ask for the right thought or the right action. Say often, thy will be done. You know, those are, it's so easy when I look at it. One, two, three, four, five. This is how I do it. And then again, it tells me exactly what to do at nighttime. Where was I resentful? Where was I selfish? Where was I dishonest? Where was I afraid? It's easy if I just, follow the directions, the suggestions that were given to me. And it's all right here in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. The problem is, is I didn't take the time to open it up and really look at it and apply it to my life. And it took really strong sponsorship and it took a willingness to really take a look at it and say, but I'm different. I'm unique. I had to be able to say, I'm just like you and I have to do the footwork just like you had to do the footwork. And I'm really grateful to be here and I'm glad to be clean and sober today and I thank you clients for letting me talk. Thank you, Nancy. And Jack Freckman told me he would do this workshop this morning if he didn't have to go first. Now, I have honored my contract and it's time for him to honor his. Jack Freckman. Thank you, Clarence. My name is Jack Freckman. By the grace of God, the program and the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, I have not had to take a drink since November 1st of 1980. This kind of like reminds me of the old music world group when I sit here and look at this. All of us were in the same home group at one time. When Clarence asked me to speak on God as we understand him this morning, I think my first words were, my Lord, what an order. I can't go through with it. Because I, like Nancy said, I told Clarence, I said, Clarence, if you think I understand God, then I'm either drunk or I'm lying to you. Because, I don't know if I'll ever understand God. I do, though, I believe today, have a relationship with him that is uniquely different than it used to be. And I think I'll tell you a little bit of what it was like. Basically, I was born in the church. I'm a Presbyterian by trade. And so, it was a pretty liberal church. I used to go out and get drunk with our minister at times. And, it's a new version of me, or my God to be, I guess. But, also during this period, like I said, I had been brought up in the church my entire life, so I had beliefs about God. I believed he was loving. I believed he was caring. I believed he was always in my life. And I kept waiting for the clouds to open up and for him to show himself. And it never did happen. I had my first spiritual awakening while I was an elder. I became an elder in our church. Which is really great for the alcoholic because we get to get up and assist the minister in church service and we get to perform in front of everybody and I thought that was just great. But my first spiritual awakening came one Sunday when, as usual, I had not spent too much time in bed the night before. I had spent it mostly draped over a bar and I was up there and I passed out during the service and the minister came up to me and shook me. And, oh my God. And, so, I had beliefs but I had no relationship. I did not know but on November 1st of 1980 I had a true spiritual awakening. Due to a variety of circumstances that was the day that I said enough's enough. I didn't know what to do. I literally knelt weeping and asked God to remove whatever it was in my life that was making me drink. I said, hey, 18 years, I've tried it my way which is not working. Um, no, the heavens didn't open up. The earth didn't shatter but something came over me. I didn't realize this until years later. But I got through that first several days, several weeks, several months of, um, not drinking. And, there was some kind of spiritual awakening in me. And, you know, it was, you know, it was, there was some kind of calmness about me and I didn't have any desire to drink. I didn't know at the time that my desire had been removed. Um, and I know I sure didn't do it. But then, as my head began to clear a little bit, um, I got real confused because I'm, I'm thinking here at this time, um, God has been in my life, supposedly, but why didn't he let me drink for all these years and I didn't understand this and, you know, why haven't the heavens opened up, etc. Um, I was in Louisville, Kentucky at the time and I know there are some Louisville people here. Yeah. And, I remember sitting in a room one day uh, with an old timer. His name is Jesse and some of you may know Jesse. And, I had a little discussion with him about my confusion with God. And I said, I'm supposed to understand him, I believe in him but I don't understand him. And old Jesse was a very wise man and he just looked at me and said, that's what I've been for the last 18 years. Or at least I've tried. Um, I'm nowhere near perfect. Um, God has put things in my life to remind me uh, that he's in control and I'm not. Um, I'd like to share just a couple of those with you. Um, I'm a pilot. When I was just first learning to fly up in Louisville, I don't, I'd been sober about four years at the time and I was still struggling with my life. Um, I was struggling around and finally one day my instructor, somehow the subject came up that I was recovering. And he said, you too? Whoa, this is getting a little weird here, you know. I hope you can land this thing because I can't yet. And, um, he said, yeah, I've been in the program 28 years. And he died, um, just about a year ago, a year and a half ago. But, Red at the time, right at that moment, Red, and this, is something that is vivid to me today as it was about, uh, 15 years ago. Red said, Jack, it's my airplane. And we started flying and we were flying up the river, the valley there on the Ohio River. And he said, Jack, look down. And I looked down and it was that Sunday morning and it was just green grass, a few puffs of clouds. It was early spring. There was just a few little spots of snow. We had snow that year. Cows out there grazing, clear blue sky above. And he looked at me and he said, Jack, now tell me there's not a god. And that vivid image stays with me today. It's one of the, one of the treasures that this program has given to me. Shortly before that, and it's really the reason I'm here today, um, and Nancy kind of reminded me of it, um, I guess I've been sober about a year and a good friend of mine up in Louisville asked me to come talk at his birthday. And, yeah, I was still drunk, confused. I didn't understand anything. And I told him, no, I couldn't. I had to work. It was a lie. I was too scared. About a year later, God gave me the courage to go back and tell him. And I'm going to tell you right now, making amends for things you do after you're sober is a real bitch. And yet, God gives you the courage to do those things. Um, you know, you don't have, I didn't have the excuse of, geez, I was drunk, sorry. Um, and I had to face him up. And, only somebody in the program could accept that. Um, one other final thing that, that kind of puts me where I, where I am with God, I guess. Um, and if you're not, if you haven't had 10 years sobriety, this might be something you might want to try. And, when I came to Nashville and hooked up with a music role group back in, uh, 86, I was leading the group at the time. I know y'all remember that. And this was a big book study group. And I remember one time, right about that time, Mike telling a story about how some old timer said, you know, said, Mike, you can't say the serenity prayer until you've had 12 or 10 years of sobriety because you don't know what it, you don't know what it means or anything like that. So, it kind of stuck in my mind. And at 10 years, when I sponsored a few other people, I did a, uh, inventory. Uh, and I'm, to be honest with you, I'm not wild about doing inventories because they really show me up for who I am. But at 10 years, I'd had a little perspective at the time. And, this to me was as close as I could have to a spiritual awakening because as I sat there and did it and looked back, I realized that good, bad, or indifferent, everything that had happened to me had happened for a reason. I still don't have 15 minutes with God we're gonna maybe talk about, but I really realized that everything that had happened to me in the past 10 years and in fact my entire life, there was a purpose in it. And it had helped me to grow. And it helped me to understand Him. And in, at that time, at that one period of life, basically that 18 years that I was drinking, I realized that as the, the poem, The Footprints in the Sand, that was a period of time that I thought I was trudging alone. And it wasn't my footsteps, it was His. Thank you again for letting me share. Thank you, Jerry. Oh, Rishi's turn. Mmm, that's Catholic and the nurse is. But my dad was a Baptist minister. So I guess I'm also a recovering Baptist. My dad taught us some strange things. He taught us that if it wasn't against the law, Catholics would kill us all. Nancy came to sit down and was after me for something. Dad did teach us a lot of strange things and, but I want to tell you, Dad was a great man. He, he walked his talk, even though he did believe some strange things. He, he didn't believe that man went to the moon. He thought they filmed that out in the desert. And he believed that wrestling was real. Now if there's any wrestlers in here, I'm going to tell you a story. I remember when I was in treatment, Dad came to visit me and I said, Pop, here's, here's what we're trying to learn out here, what they're trying to teach us. Here's the twelve steps. He stood there and read them and he said, well son, isn't that what I taught you? I said, now I've come to believe that I had that ism long before I had that alcohol. In the Baptist Church, they say you need to come down to Dad. Where was I? I remember. Dad would say, come down to this altar and accept Jesus. You'll quit doing all that stuff. And boy, in the Baptist Church at twelve years old you did that. I'll never forget it. Now, Imogene still lives in my hometown and I tell you, they prayed for us and some of us cried and they patted me on the head. Didn't old Paul do good? And I tell you, I felt good for about an hour. Then I caught myself out stealing an apple or looking up some little girl's face. And I thought, ooh, this Jesus deal don't work like Dad says. And I went off in the other direction even though I believed in God as long as I can remember. Long before I turned twelve years old, I believed in God, believed in Jesus. But I couldn't understand so much. And I went off the other way. And I had three more. And I could tell you, when the alcohol of those four beers hit this little brain, I thought I'd found what my dad had been preaching about, a peace that passeth understanding. There's so much I don't know about God. One of the finest stories I've heard about this little seven, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 101, 102, 102, 103, 104, 105, 103, 105, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 109, 120, 130, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 120, 126, 127, 120, 128, 129, Father Martin says if a man's too old to learn, he's probably too old. Thank God my dad wasn't too old to learn. Me and Clarence were drinking buddies many years ago in the music business. And we used to come to a lot together. Now, wait a minute. Well, I don't know about him, but wait a minute. Well, I remember one time we passed out in my office. We'd been listening to music for three hours in the morning. And when I came to, I was laying on the couch, and Clarence had passed out behind my desk in the chair. And sometime in the night, it had fallen over backwards, his leg still sticking up there. I went up and said, Clarence, wake up, wake up. And he said, well, poor. I said, it's time to get up. Well, here we come. Clarence does talk funny, doesn't he? And slow. Somebody said it takes him two hours to watch 60 Minutes. Well, I'll tell you. I've been calling Clarence for years. And for the last many years, Clarence has been sober every time I call him. And I'd call him about, back in my early, probably my first year of sobriety, call him. Because I was still craving a drink. And I'd call him and talk to him. For my sobriety, I do. And we get together all the time. We're able to spend a lot of time together. But I'd call him, and he'd always have the same answer. My problem was, he'd say, well, now, Paul, here's the deal. I got it. You know, we get to do two things. I said, what's that, Clarence? Don't drink and show up. I said, Clarence, I understand I don't drink. But what do you mean, show up? Show up where? Show up at the right place. Clarence, how do I know it's the right place? He said, don't go to the wrong place. Wow, brilliant. But that's how simple it's got to be for me. You know, I don't know. I don't know a lot of the right places. I'd do more today. But I knew it would look a bunch of the wrong places, probably about all of them. So it made sense to me to turn my way in my life and with care of God, as I understand him, and ask him for his power to keep me from going to those wrong places. And slowly, the book says slowly for some, quickly for others. It's been slowly for me. I'll cut that list of the wrong places down. It just makes sense. I'm showing up more at the right place. And it's the same thing with God's will for me. I don't know all that much about what God's will is. But I think I've got a pretty good idea of what it's not. So the same deal if I ask him for the power. Cutting down on the things that are not his will. It makes sense that I'm doing more of God's will. And this program really has to be simple for me. Clarence mentioned a while ago that I was visiting with Father Martin. I had five days with him. And I asked him a lot of questions. One he asked and one... But I'd always heard as a Baptist that Catholics prayed to the saints. I said, Father, do you pray to the saints? And he said, yeah. I said, would you explain that to me? He said, well... He said, you know why I met you? I met your mother many times. And he said, did you ever think there ever was a saint? It was your mother. I said, oh, sure, I did. He said, did your mother ever tell you that she prayed for you? I said, sure, she did. He said, that's why I pray to the saints. And ask them to pray to God for me. Now, that's not religion, folks. I think that's spiritual. I'm not a religious person. Don't want to be, as I understand it. I believe religion is manhood. Man-made spirituality is God. And I don't know all the answers. I know very few. There was a... One day, one of them said, I believe God speaks through others. One said, yeah, yeah, that's the way he speaks to me, through others. Yeah, yeah. This one old boy said, I've been sober ten days. I believe God speaks through you. You know what I'm saying? He said, ten days ago, I was in the restroom. Looked down at John and said, God, if you're in there, help me. And he said, I've never been sober ten days in my life. And here I am. I believe God speaks through you. Oh, he can if he wants to. I have some understanding of God, I think. But I also think I have photographic... What is it? Photographic? Memory, yeah. Yeah. That's it. Photographic memory. But there's a lot of things that I don't understand about God, so I just accept God as I don't understand him, too. I thought this was going to be an hour session, but they told me it was going to be three hours, so no problem with that, is there? I'm so grateful to be here. I had a new thought of all four of us. I've been at the Music World Group for many years. Oh, I want to tell you one more story. I travel quite often telling my story. And when I got sober in the music, it just seemed natural for me to tell my story in song, and that's what I do. And sometimes with a full band, bus, and sound and lights, and sometimes with music tracks, and I sing and tell my story. I was heading on a trip one time. I'd leased a bus, and I heard the bus pull up out front, and I went down to meet the driver. And he said, man, I think I've met you somewhere. And I said, well, I've been at Nashville almost 20 years, at that time. He said, well, I've been on the West Coast most of the time, but I've been in Nashville a lot. I said, well, I'll trip there this weekend. I'm a recovering alcoholic, and I tell my life story with music. He said, well, I know where I met you now. Someone or so brought me to your office for an AA meeting about five years ago. Oh, okay. We go and do the thing, and we're headed back, and I'm sitting up the front talking to the driver, and he begins to share his life story. And he said, He said, Paul, when I first got sober, my sponsor told me to pray every morning and ask God that I not have any alcohol or mood-altering drugs for that day. And he said, I told him I didn't believe in God. And he said, I didn't ask you if you believed in God. I told you to pray. He said, well, who will I pray to if I don't believe in God? He said, well, pray to yourself if you think you're the greatest thing, if you're the greatest thing in the world. He said, well, pray to yourself if you think you're the greatest thing in the world. There is. Or just pick out someone that you kind of admire for things they've done. He said, Paul, I made fats domino, Michael. And he said, I prayed to fats every morning and every night. And he said, I didn't drink. And he said, I sobered about a year and said, me and my sponsor in the wintertime were out riding in the lake, walking around the lake, and there had been a big ice storm. And the ice was just all the branches hanging down on the ground. the lake was frozen over the ground was frozen over and the sun shining through there and he said I stopped and looked across that lake and said to my sponsor boy is that beautiful or not he said my sponsor stopped and looked across there and said man it is he said old Fats did a hell of a job didn't he he said Paul that's when I fell to my knees not to worship the creation but to speak to the creator thank you all so much thank you Paul I could not add much to what you've already heard here this morning from my panel but I'm going to zap you once or twice so don't get too comfortable August 16th 1979 I was drunker than $400 and I had been drunk for 30 years and I didn't believe that that wasn't the only thing I didn't believe I didn't believe in God I figured the Easter Bunny was a white gentleman kinder than he was of course the old cross don't come often enough to use him I was a skeptic and someone who put down the idea of believing in God and I based all of that on my suspicion of preachers and theology dispute and arrogance and when I went to treatment on August 16th those people told me no earthly power could have relieved our alcoholism they told me that God could and would if he was up and he brought a bunch of religious fanatics so I began the usual course of debate which was well grounded and steady in fact I'm serious about that I had spent... I had done the previous route So I strapped a few little pearls of wisdom in them folks and I said that will do very nicely I said what will do? they said Cl Homer just act as if act as if what? act as if there is a God I said why man? he said that's the way we see God act as if what? act as if there is a God I said why man? he said that's the way we see God I said that's the way we see God God. I said, I ain't looking for him. I'm looking for you to go. Long story short, a year later, I graduated from atheism to agnosticism. Agnosticism is the practice of remaining to be convinced. It was a giant leap forward for me to come from atheism to it. Years later, I took the second step. I had not believed that I was crazy. After a six-month drive drunk, I needed some help. I thought I would act as if some more. I don't know about y'all with this acting as if deal, but I don't recommend it that you appoint yourself the spiritual leader of Middle Tennessee while you're still a atheist. That is not a good deal. Those are some of the things that I did. It sort of reminds me of a single old gospel song. Every one of those songs seems to have some extension of growth in it. By that, I mean what Chris Christopherson said on the way back to you. He said, I have returned. We're making a journey. I think that's what our steps to the promises are. I think what they are is a step. That leads us to a guide of our own understanding, and that if we have to act as if, that works just as well as if you don't need to do that. My Aunt Matt used to tell me, you've got to have faith, boy. I don't believe I had to have any faith. I had to have the need for a power greater than any earthly one before I could find one. I had to have that power, and that's sort of what happened to me. I came to believe three years sober. Then I had to start trying to practice these principles in all of my affairs, and I didn't have very many of these principles. I had no earthly idea that I didn't know something upfront. I always believed that I did. The soberer I got, the more I came to understand that everything that I was doing, whatever it was, was going to be because I was so self-centered. How does that make you? How does that make you? Well, first of all, the things that I was doing, most importantly it did change my life. The family that I was with, the things that I was doing, the things that I was doing, if they were cupidum. Good to know that I was a good person. The father was a friend of mine once. The father was a good man. Everything I knew was in retrospect. Looking back on it, I had a variety of spiritual experiences that went over a period of years in sobriety and didn't know what was happening. I had no earthly idea what was a spiritual experience, such as Nancy described here at this roundup. That's a spiritual experience. I've had a lot of them. I sure do appreciate all of y'all coming this morning. We do have this mic down here on the left of the table. If anyone would like to share a question. I'm glad to be able to come in the alcoholic here and sober today through the grace of God. I'm not going to sing to you this morning, especially with this panel. Although, Paul, Sunday morning sidewalk has been on my mind heavy today. And if y'all know that song, you know what I mean. I just wanted to share a couple of experiences. First of all, I walked into AA in 1975 at the 202 Club and it hasn't been necessary for me to go out since. But when I walked in there, I started hearing all these old-timers. I was blessed with a whole room full of them, as Clarence knows. And everybody was talking about coming from this good Christian home. And I went, I'm not going to say what I said, but it's Sunday morning. But I said, you know, oh God, I don't belong here. Because I didn't come from a good Christian home. And I really didn't think I belonged in AA because I kept hearing, I came from a good Christian home and heard these stories. I'm a recovering Lutheran. And I came from a family that didn't go to church but made us go to church. And when I was 12 years old, my mother was saying to me, are you going to get confirmed or not? Because at 13, you're going to go to hell if you aren't confirmed. So I thought, I better get this over with so I went and got confirmed. But much like Paul at 15, my higher power became God. Although I always, I mean, my higher power became alcohol. But I always believed in God. I always believed there was a God there. And I learned something in my struggle through this, trudging through this destiny, happy destiny. I learned that my relationship with my earthly father definitely affected and affects my relationship with my heavenly father. My, and I truly, I truly believe this. Whatever your relationship is with your earthly father affects that because my dad had a, he passed away almost two years ago now, and he had a severe case of ACOAism. A child of an alcoholic. No touch, no talk, no feel. I was the, I was one boy out of five girls and I thought that him and I should really bond and we didn't. And I would hear my father say, when my mother would say, do something with that, all he'd ever say is, I don't know what to do with that boy. I don't know what to do with that boy. I hear these echoes today from my higher power. I hear these echoes today from God saying, I don't know what to do with that boy. And I learned that the only way that I, and I learned through my sponsoring through his program, the only way that I could get comfortable with my God as I understand him today is to forgive my father, my earthly father, and try to understand him. And I have done that. And as a matter of fact, this is kind of non-AA, but before he died, I had an opportunity to witness to him. And anyway, another thing happened to me that is AA, definitely, and we get away from and have gotten away from. And that's at a 202 club when I was about three or four months sober and struggling hard because I didn't go through treatment. I was, you know, I detoxed right there off of the Valium and the alcohol in the clubhouse. Three members took me upstairs. We got on our knees and they prayed me through the third step. And one of them was Joe Malloy. And I can't remember who the other two were. But we did what the old members used to do with the drunks. They would take them and they would pray with them through the third step before they'd even allow them to go to a meeting. And, uh, but I, and then you just told me, Conrad, fake it till you make it. Fake it till you make it. So I, I was, you know, I had the Lex McAdill guide. And I figured my deal was up. You know, I promise you God that I'll never go with that woman again. I'll never go in that bar again. I'll never drink that booze again. And he'd get me out of the situation and I'd go out and celebrate. So I figured my number was up. I still struggle with this because I still have, I still have issues with my upbringing. But I truly believe with all my heart. Well, as someone told me, um, I said, what if I pray to God and he's not there? And they said, what if you don't? And he is. Thank you. Thank you, Karen Mayer. Have you ever felt spiritually dissatisfied? And I've been taking a consensus in a poll for this whole weekend of hearing the right answers or learning different ways of, of questions. I've had the moments of clarity which brought me here and I'm so grateful. But it wasn't to my, my vision or to my perception. My God's a hero because he took me from the dark side to a brighter side. But I remember seeing like a power of angels picking me up on my, my day of, I call it my day of clarity because it was just, it was a miracle. My God is Batman and people are just totally amazed by it. But I don't understand it but I'm 12 years old. I feel like I'm 12 years old and I'm just striving to learn. I just want to know how you feel, feed the soul. Oh yeah. Thank you, Dwayne. I can't think of a better place to be. I really can't think of a better place to be than someone who is seeking his God and his soul and his higher power. I think for me that was where all the punishment came from. I didn't believe and I wasn't going to look at him. There's probably I've learned that. This is not one of the wrong places. And I'll just tell you like Clarence told me. Don't drink and show up. Participate. Just like you've just done. Ask questions. You know, I used to know a lot of stuff. Somebody asked me why I didn't write a book. Well, shoot, my book had been this thick. I knew some stuff back then. Today I might not be about a paragraph. I'm probably stressing it a little there. But I ask. And that's great, Dwayne. People used to use long words and I wouldn't understand what they meant. But I'd agree with them and say, yeah, I know what you're talking about. Clarence had got a great vocabulary. And he may get tired. But every time him or anybody uses a word I don't know what it means, I'll stop them and say, what does that mean? Because I want to know. Back in my drinking days, it embarrassed me if I didn't know, so I acted as if I did. Today, I don't care. You know, I didn't care who knew I was drinking. I sure don't care. Who knows I'm not drinking. So, man, I'd do just exactly what you just did. I'd do just exactly what you just did. I'd do just exactly what you just did. I asked somebody, because a guy told me one time, when you know that you don't know, you'll begin to know. I said, how do you know? And he said, I don't know. But see, that makes sense to me. When I know that I don't know, I've got a foundation there to build on to where I can know. And usually, it's from, I grow and I learn from pain or from asking questions. I'd rather grow from asking questions. I don't like that pain. Thank you, Doreen. I just want to say to you, I mentioned it earlier, I was probably in a place close to where you were many years ago, and I'll just say what Jesse told me, and that's work the steps. Steps 1 through 11 get us ready for step 12. And that's all we can do is take it one day at a time, maybe some days one hour at a time. For me, it was... about five minutes at a time sometimes. How we fill our souls and get God into our lives is by working the steps. You know, you look around this room, and there's a little bit of God in everybody in here. And you just got to go up and give somebody a hug and ask them, and they'll be there for you. Something that they told me really early on was to hang with the winners. And I have found that if there's something that somebody has that I want, that's the person that I want. That's the person that I'm going to be around. That's the person that I kind of watch and try to emulate. And so if there's somebody out there that I feel really has a spiritual way to live, and if that's what I'm really longing for, that's the person that I'm going to try to spend some time with and to watch and to emulate. My name's Ed Wilson. I'm an alcoholic. That means I can't drink successfully. When I say I have a disease of alcoholism, that means I can't live successfully in and of myself. So I had to find some kind of power. And I found out through the years in Alcoholics Anonymous, is that I can go somewhere and definitely do not want to be there and receive what I need to receive. A prayer for me today is going to an AA meeting, basically. And meditation is listening to a newcomer. Because for years I didn't do that. I'd have two years in the program, and I'd walk in a meeting and tune out everybody that had under two years, because they couldn't give me anything. And consequently, in some meetings, I tuned out 85% of the people. So I tuned out 85% of what I needed to hear that particular night. But I want to share two important, real briefly, two important experiences in my life. One is that I had four years in the program, and I went up to mental health in Memphis, a six-floor lock-up. And I was all dressed up with a suit and shirt and tie, and I had my big book, and I'm sitting there, and I was trying to carry the message. Well, I think I was trying to carry the message. I was trying to become one, rather than carry one, but anyway, these people were salivating, and I don't know if they just had their medication, but they were banging their heads on the table. And one guy was trying to crawl out the window. Another guy stepped up and said, I hate your God. And he went out of the room, and everybody else went out after him to bring him back to apologize to him. He was like one flew over the cuckoo's nest. So I said, how can I carry this message? I mean, nobody is getting anything. And here I am with this big book, and I'm trying to tell these people how it is. Two years later, I was giving a talk in one of the groups, and when I was done, this beautiful blonde came up to me. I mean, just absolutely gorgeous, and eyes shining and everything. And she gave me a big hug and a kiss, and I backed up. I said, lady, I don't know you from that. And she said, oh, yes, you do. She said, two years prior to that, you were in Memphis Mental Health, and you said something that stuck with me for two years. You know something? I didn't ask her what it was. I don't know. I don't want to know what it was. It wasn't anything of my business. I was carrying something, and that's how it works for me. And then the other thing was, in my 13th year, I believe I had what I would call a spiritual awakening. And one Sunday morning, I was driving down the road, and this voice come into my mind. Now, I'm not crazy, and I wasn't then, but if somebody had drove up in a car alongside of me and saw me, they'd see me talking, but there wasn't anybody else in there. And I was arguing with this voice, because what the voice wanted me to do, is to make amends to the Air Force, the Marine Corps, and the mayor of my hometown. Well, I'm a 20-year retired Marine, or retired, excuse me. But anyway, I said, you know, I almost said, are you crazy? You know, unbelievable. Well, you know, I didn't have the addresses. I was trying to make excuses. I didn't have the address. I didn't have the person to address the letters to, or anything else. 3.30 that morning, I had the addresses. And I put, to whom it may concern, it was, it was the most gut-wrenching thing I ever did in my life. Because I was telling them what I was like. And it's all about truth. Not your truth, but my truth. You know. And an atheist believes he doesn't believe, and an agnostic believes he doesn't know. And a Christian believes that he believes in Christ. But all of them believe in something. You know, and who am I to criticize the girl with the shining eyes that came up to me and said that I carried something. You know, it's unbelievable. You know, the power is the greatest thing. The depth of it is where it's at. So anyway, at 3.30 in the morning, I was writing the letters. At 6.30, I was walking up to the mailbox to drop them in. And I wanted to tear them up. I wanted to crumple them. I wanted to burn them. At that particular time, I experienced 100% surrender. You know, in the program they say, let go absolutely, completely abandon yourself. And then I knew, for the first time in my life, what that means because I reached over and I held them in the mailbox slot and I let them go. At that particular time, all of us left. All of us not quite rightness with myself left in that particular situation in my life. And it took me years to be quite right with AA because I wasn't. There was something about it for years. In the meetings, I wasn't like the people in the groups. There was something separating it from me. So I hit a wall at 10 years. I started becoming highly critical of my group. I don't need these people. They weren't calling on me. There's too much God talk. You know. So I left for two years and I didn't think drink it. But what happened, I was running on self-will. And life became meaningless again because I can't operate on self-will. I can't manage my life. So I went back to the group. I missed the group. I missed the fellowship. That word was churchy, too churchy for years for me because I hadn't experienced it. And I came back in the group and I experienced fellowship. You know. And things like that. In the 13th year of this, and this, and hitting the walls. And an old timer once said, you know, if you do one step a year, you're pretty much in line with recovery. You know. And I didn't understand what that meant. But when I'm ready to receive something, I'm going to receive it. You know, in this program. And that's why I show up. I show up to get direction. And sometimes I get it from the newcomer. I'm not going to tell them that though. Thank you. Thank you. We are running a little bit late here this morning. Does anybody ever have any burning desire before we close this workshop? I want to thank you all for coming, I want to thank. A great contribution. For those of you who choose to, let's make our circle and close this.