Allergy of the Body and Phenomenon of Craving – FOTS Workshop – Part 1 of 2 – Ralph

Thank you for your service, my name is Vonna, I'm an alcoholic, Ralph and Steve, thank you. my question is about the allergy of the body um so just a quick premise you know it i've learned that alcoholic the opinion of doc the doctor that's a doctor's opinion and it's an opinion and not um and opinions have changed now um and i know you mentioned like an allergy like if i eat if i'm allergic to peanuts and i eat peanut butter i could choke up and i don't want to face that so i don t drink it but if i have an allergy to alcohol but i don' t break out of alcohol now here's what i experience in my body with alcohol but I suspect this is what most people who are even not alcoholics experience which is like my brain the organ my brain calms down as soon as i even smell it but i don't think that's what you're talking about and my mind is different than my brain my mind as the way i perceive things and the reality that i look through the lenses that i at the environment that's warped right that that's that's the alcoholism of of the spirit maybe so i guess i'm among if you could now that i have presented my, the way I think about this, my question would be could you clarify, domify the allergy of the body? Since you said domify, I'm the person for that. And the doctor's allergy, thank you Vanna, you know because I like to confuse it, the doctor says this is the way the allergy shows up. And the doctor, and I'm going to quote the doctor, but guess what? What I'm really going to tell you is what my experience is of what the doctor said. This is what the doctor saids. The doctor says it seems that these people have what is called the manifestation of an allergy when they start drinking. And he says the way their allergy shows up to alcohol is not the same way that Michael's allergy shows us to peanuts or Vanna's allergy, shows up the strawberries. The way Ralph's allergy shows up too. Alcohol is in what he calls the phenomena of craving Ralph's allergy to alcohol shows up like this vanna when ralph drinks he gets thirsty it doesn't happen in other people in the sense of yeah other people drink and they like it and they drink more but when rouse drinks he cannot control when he's stopping when ralf drinks he intends to come home right after work but he comes home sunday or monday does he do this once or twice he almost always does this there are times he doesn't but when ralph drinks he goes through all his money every time his phenom his allergy shows up in what the doctor calls phenomenon of craving which is he loses and there are other parts in the book he says once he starts he loses control of his alcohol consumption other people also get drunk that are not alcoholics but they have others and they i'm cool i'm stopping they usually set out to tie one on i when i don't set out the taiwan on bubba's on here and he says the invisible seat belt comes out and I'm stuck. So that's the dumbified version. The doctor's version is, it's called the phenomenon of craving which is, I can't control how much I'm going to do once I start. You know, Vonna, I wish that Ralph and my friend, our dear deceased friend, howard pollens was here to and howard would do an uninterrupted hour on neuroplasticity and uh and we'll talk about the brain science or related to this and and he would tie it together but uh i just was looking for a reason to say neuroplasticity uh but what the other thing you talked about real quickly we'll move on is back in a vision for you in the first paragraph talks about what most normal folks get from a few drinks and it says they get conviviality joyous intimacy with friends colorful imagination released from care boredom and worry and a feeling that life is good i mean who wouldn't want a glass of that right i mean that's attractive stuff but it goes on to talk about the alcoholic where that then shifts and so not so for those of us in the latter days of our drinking those who cross that line we get terrible bewilderment frustration despair and i spend the rest of my time in aa trying to get the spiritual version uh of what i of the synthetic version that's in that first paragraph we get the special version uh that's on the next page after that but uh it's a good question and uh like you said for for uh allergy you for dummies Ralph and now your guy. Thank you, Lana, for your question. Only questions please iPhone come on up please next time we'll rename you iPhone going once twice okay Julie come on up please hey Oh iPhone at Julie's up now you please wait no problem Julie go to the I've been coming to the program for little while and I have a big problem with this allergy thing I started to doubt myself if I'm actually an alcoholic or not because I feel I don't have a starting problem I have stopping problem so and I have a lot of allergies you know environmental and food and stuff like that but in my brain and i think that's where it centers it's like i'm allergic to tomatoes and i still eat them because it doesn't really cause me a lot problems but um my question is is, explain to me the phenomenon of craving. The phenomenon of craving, do I have to put it into my system before I crave it? Or do I crave it? Before I think you know, Ralph, Ralph jumped on that when he was talking but in the context of the big book, it is suggesting that once I take a drink, that it manifests in the phenomenon of craving and a phenomenon being described as an observable event. You know, if the allergy is an abnormal reaction, a phenomenon's an observability event, I will tell you when I take the drink, it was an observably event to those around me that I had an abnormal reactions to alcohol. And that abnormal reaction was as Ralph said i tend to want more when other people get satisfied i don't ever get satisfied i many times many times was was able to had the appearance of making a decision to stop drinking and and because not every time do i drink without the i am unpredictable i and that's one of the the more confusing aspects of that of that mental aspect of the obsession. Every time I drank, I did not get insanely drunk, but I could not predict when it was going to happen. And as you said, you don't have you know, our book says if anyone thinks they're not alcoholic, try a few drinks and tried to stop and start, start to stop and stop, start and stop abruptly. And I found out that I can start abruptly, but can't stop abruptly with uh with any regularity so and and what i would say to anybody so we don't go too far down the rabbit hole is those are really good things to consider but if if you or i have made a decision that alcohol is an impediment in my life and i want to not drink any more of it i don't need to spend too much more time considering why i got here in the first place and I'm not telling anybody else not to but I think that that's when if I've decided I probably shouldn't drink then I did I didn't turn my attention to how I don't do that not why I did it before Thank You Steve iPhone we lost you just put up your hand again so I can get you right after this. Selena, come on up please. Sure. I'm trying to turn up my volume. One of the things that I recall is that yeah, the way my allergy manifested itself, I did break out. I broke out all over town and you know, um, I would break into your stores. I would steal from you. I would lie to you. I would do anything to get what it was that I needed to get. That was how my allergy manifested itself because i couldn't get enough but whatever i could do i broke up all over town and so this phenomenon it is indeed um it's different than the regular allergies but I'm allergic to alcohol. When I take it, I have a reaction and it's not a normal reaction like normal people. Thank you, Selena. I'm going to encourage everybody to come up with questions only please. iPhone, come on up. Hi, am I iPhone? Am I on? You're on. Yes, please go ahead. Okay, I'm sorry. I think I already had the question answered but I looked up the Webster's dictionary definition of phenomenon and it says observable fact or event and I think maybe it was Steve or who else is co-chairing this mentioned that so the phenomenon okay so if it's in my head and I think I crave it how is that observable I mean do I like tell people that I mean I'm getting too technical and I'm Getting to whatever but I'm going to switch it around mind over body it's something I was taught from day one mind over a body if you yeah mind overbody and is that the same with this I'm not making any sense I'm sorry okay Thank You iPhone great question just I do encourage you to get the recording and listen they've fantastic answers to that question few times but go ahead if you guys want to jump on it well i'm gonna jump on one thing because i've heard it from a couple of people and uh one of the downsides of doing a deal like this is people come in here and think they're in class i don't mean to say that about anybody in particular this is not class if alcohol is having its way with you don't worry about whether i call it the mind or the body. Do I want to quit for good and for all? And when, and I am going to talk directly when Julie had her question, if I want To defend my right to drink, there's a test in there, go drinking. If I want TO say, well, I drink, I have allergy to tomato and I like drinking tomato. But if I'm done with drinking, don't worry about chicken before the egg. Don't worry about, do I call it allergy or do I call it crazy? Do I call it? I don't want it. So then I sit all the way down. I said all the way down, Steve and I didn't come here to, and again, you know, I'm really, let me try to phrase this in a way that is helpful, but it's not going to do me any good to try to think my way out of this. If I'm in alcoholism, I can't think my way out of this one. If I'm in alcoholism and it's kicking that behind, don't worry about giving it up and going, and is it phenomenal? No, here's the phenomena. It's wearing me out. They putting me out, I can keep a job. I can stop crying in my bed at night. I can look at my kids in the eye. I don't care if I call it allergy phenomenon or nothing, is wearing that answer i'm gonna go to this thing and what it is that i'm really looking for that i hope that steve and i um communicated is i'm working with something that's way bigger than me i'm workin with something is way more powerful than me i'm working with someone that i will never be able to safely do because physically there is no way out of this now for those who really want to go in the weeds about it you know and really want to understand it but more than understand what i really need to understand more than anything else is when i put one in me i can't stop call it craving call it out when i pull one in mean i can stop and guess what i can start putting one in that's what we really want communicate we gave it names and we gave her terms and we gave her words but the but more important than the words the terms and the rest is dude i can't stop putting it in me and would it put it in mean i can stop damn that's what they said so you know ralph when i first got sober my first sponsor told me he said steve you're going to hear people say that alcoholics anonymous is a simple program for complicated people and he said that's not true he said aa is a simple program for simple people who think they're complicated and uh i'm the guy that that can do that and uh and we can parse words and we can look at stuff but it's the experience that we're trying to to have and and it and you're right it's hard sometimes to articulate an experience with it thanks ollie thank you so much sandy eye waiting patiently come on up Good evening, everybody. I'm a colleague. My name's Sandy. I would like the host to talk a little bit about obsession of the mind for my own self. Yes, I get the physical allergy where if I take a drink, you know, I'm going to be drinking more no matter what. But what have also found is a part of this allergy for me is even when I'm not drinking I'm thinking about drinking I think about what I'm gonna get like the obsession like at what point does that leave because it's hard for me hardest part of staying sober like after years and years and here's a being in and out I finally did concede I did but I have found the obsession leaves and then comes back and leaves and comes back I just if anything's gonna make me drink again I'm a little afraid it's that obsession so if you guys could just talk little bit about your experience with that that obsession with alcohol like people who are allergic to peanuts don't think about peanuts all the time do they like i don't know no they don't sandy i'm gonna jump on here steve will but this is why i need you to look at me right now find me and make a commitment to go through our 12 of these with us because we cannot get rid of of the obsession. We can't think the obsession away. We can't wish it away. We can hope it away we can't learn it away that's bad news huh because that's scary that scares you right now because that obsession come but guess what it was about 400 and something people in here that didn't have an obsession. You want to know what happened something happened something happened and that you are absolutely right. That's the scary part that you, you got it, babe. You got it. That'S the deal. Damn Ralph. I'm going to drink even when I don't want to that step one. I'M GOING TO DRINK WHEN I DON'T WANT TO. THAT IS STEP ONE. AND GUESS WHAT? I CAN'T NOT STOP MYSELF FROM WANTING TO. That is step one, but we can't give that to you baby in answer to this question okay that is what our program we have a solution we have a program action i'm not going to even i'm not going even give you a peek because we're staying in step one tonight but oh my god i want you to put your question on the board that's our springboard for next week that's our springboard. That's it. I got this obsession and I can't stop myself from having it. Oh my God, that's it, that step one. I can stop myself drinking. And I can stop myself thinking about drinking. Oh, we're glad you're here. We came for you. thank you sandy questions only please sherry sherry come on up my sister hey hey hey thomas sherry alcoholic care most excellent job you guys most excellent job hey just real quick so when i'm working with people i have them right out on one piece of paper that's just the front side everything in their life powerlessness and unmanageability list is what i call it just so that they can kind of see the mess as they are coming to the conclusion that they are indeed alcoholic um and on their way to concede is there anything that you guys do with people you're working with that you put in writing or you put it on paper you know what i often do sherry and great to see you by the way and uh is you know when we get to page 44 in the book it says we we in the preceding chapters we hope we've made clear the distinction between the alcoholic and the non-alcoholic and i will ask someone to study through those through page 43 in the book and i should identify those things let me know what you strongly identify with what speaks to you i did that i felt that i drank like that let me know the things that if you find things that don't apply to you and let me if there's something you just don't believe and i said i'm totally uninvested and there's not a right or wrong answer but we let the book help them determine whether or not they are alcoholic by by looking at the descriptions of alcoholism and seeing if they fit and that can certainly be enhanced by what you're talking about so i don't think there's any any wrong way to uh to try to get to the truth thank you jerry galaxy note 10 come on up please with your question hey this is uh rick kingsport tennessee alcoholic thank you so much for having us tonight love it a quick question for uh for the speakers can you all talk a little bit about the evolution of your first step from 5, 10, 20, and 30 years and what that's looked like along your journey? Well, I can tell you that I am more alcoholic today than I have ever been. And what I mean by that is I have more clarity about my alcoholism the more I continue to look back because I look back with a clarity that I did not have when I was going through it. And so when our book says that as an alcoholic, I can't differentiate the true from the false. My alcoholic life's seen the only normal one. More and more, I Can Look Back in My Life and See Things As They Really Were. And sometimes I've discovered I suffered from a childhood that never actually happened. I look back and see that some things I inflated, and I look backs and see some things that I minimized, but I think I see the truth better. then that powerlessness and unmanageability I begin to recognize year after year after year, I may recognize another facet of that unmanagability in my life that I did not see before. And I think that's just continuing to be freer the bondage itself so I can again get a better look at me. And I guess really briefly, it's well known that the only step we do perfectly is step one. And I'm, I guess for anybody that graced their own papers and trips and get find yourself lacking you know all of us who are here still here, you know if I haven't lost my step one I don't know how much more perfectly I do it. most of my evolution has been you know three two the other set but so i don't know uh um i guess i get a passing grade on step one and i keep it pushing and so once i'm i'm firmly uh surrender to the fact i can't i've spent most of the rest of the evolution with the rest steps thank you so much the last question just a couple of quick minutes Vicki come on up please yeah it'll be real quick hi I'm Mickey I'm an alcoholic I've been chewing on this since you said it this is for Steve Steve what did you say in the beginning about transformation spit that out again well I said our intention is to have a a conversation about the application of the information to bring about the transformation thank you i was like if it were sunday we'd be passing the collection plate now and uh