The Progressive Disease of Secrets – John A.

My name is John Allred and I am an alcoholic. Happy birthday for a year, huh? So I guess you got a sponsor. You don't have a sponsor? Okay, well that's... a lot of guys you just made a lot of guys night but you have one before the night's over and welcome to our guy vermont yeah oh he said he's at austin i thought he said vermont oh well that makes more sense i thought sure i live in vermont so let's go to texas for august we do have california though right la yeah there's la what part of la oh yeah yeah you're not down there by mickey bush in that group okay good good you're welcome anyway this is great you know the i'm glad to be here the the first night we talked about the problem step one identifies the problem that we're alcoholic can't manage our own life step two's the solution to that problem and step three is where we turn our will and life over to the care of the solution we found in Step 2. And, of course, we're talking about sex tonight. I've just got to talk about it. No, I always say this, but I used to have a real problem with it. And then after coming into AA and getting God in my life, I really come to see that sex is very spiritual, actually. it's a sacred holy experience something that should be shared and enjoyed by the three involved terry hates that one there but tell you where i am on that no i uh tell you about this inventory stuff i i was in treatment about two weeks and been reading ahead in the book so I found out about this inventory and I went to my counselor Dell and I said, I'm ready to take this inventory she says, oh the searching and fearless moral inventory I said yes so she gives me this big thick pamphlet on how to take the fourth step put out of that group up in Minnesota and I want you to know I carried that around with me for 18 months getting ready to take the fourth step you know so we gotta we gotta get ready to take these steps we don't just go out and take the steps nobody just takes the steps we gotta get ready to take them i mean that's what i did with every step i had to get ready did it was step one and i had to get ready to take now i think if you'd have come up to me as i'm sitting in the bar drunk and said what what are you doing i doubt i would have said i'm getting And we're ready to take step one. In reality, that's what we were doing out there. We were getting ready to Take That Step. And I had to get ready to do it. And the problem I had with the fourth step was not the fourth step. I mean, I didn't mind reading that stuff or writing that stuff down. Didn't mind that at all. But I read ahead and I found out after I write it down, you're going to have to have me. You don't want me to tell somebody about it. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to tell anybody that stuff. Nope. that's pretty mean God in fact I grew up in a very fundamental religion I grew up and was raised a Mormon and they're all like Catholics he got this confession thing and I thought besides if it's gonna work for me they're gonna they're going to probably tell me I gotta take it with the Mormon bishop I'm not taking her with more ambitious so what I thought I would do when I got over to Reno, I thought, well, I'll find somebody, another Mormon in AA and find out who he took his fifth step with. And that's what we'll take my fifth step. I asked my sponsor one time, I said, do we have any Mormons in AA? And he said, well. He said, you know, we used to have one that lived up in Carson City, but he died. So I just continued to get ready to take the fourth step and i told you last week i moved to dallas in 83 and first week i'm in dallas i'm standing at my sister's place so the first week I'm in dallas uh she invites me to go to church with her she's active in in the church so i went to church mitter and i'm not bothering anybody i'm sitting on the back row not bothering anybody and this guy comes up and introduces himself to me and he says i understand we have a common friend mutual friend and i thought my sister. It's the only person I know in Texas is my sister. He said, no, she's a friend, but I understand you're a friend of Bill W.'s. And I thought, yeah, I am. And we chatted briefly and he invited me to come over to his house. I couldn't believe it. So I got home and I started thinking about it. I was going to see him Sunday afternoon. I thought wait a minute. Wait a minute My sister's ratted on me She's gone ahead and broke anonymity to this guy. Told him I'm an alcoholic. This guy is not a real alcoholic. It's a setup. He's not a real alcoholic I mean what's he doing in church right? I'm gonna go there and he's gonna tell me I got to go back to church I do not want to go to church not gonna go back the church he's good Tim I gotta go to church it's a set up I don't like this at all but I was afraid if I didn't go he'd tell my sister and then I wouldn't have any place to live so I went by a scene found his house pulled up in front of his house big house in north dallas big circular driveway in frontof his house two new cars parked in front like that this guy's not a real alcoholic no not living like this he's not an alcoholic so i went and rang the doorbell and he lets me in and we go back to his study and uh not that these things matter to me but as i walked through his house i casually priced all the furnishings expensive stuff in that house i had this guy's not a real alcohol he's gonna tell me to go to church i don't want to go there's gonna be a big argument big argument here coming up and so we sat down the first thing he said was he said john before we get started i just want to tell you one thing the church won't keep you sober you better keep your butt in AA. I said, I agree with that. And we chatted. I got relaxed. We visited for 45 minutes later asking to be my sponsor. He's still my sponsor today, you know? And so we're working these steps. He said, have you taken an inventory? I said no, I'm getting ready to do that. He says, are you getting ready too? And I said yeah. I've been wondering about this fifth step out who you're going to take the fifth step with i know you're gonna tell me take with a mormon bishop i don't want to take with him more ambitious i'm not going to talk with a mormonic bishop when you know and he said wait a minute john he said have you have you finished your fourth i said no i'm getting ready to start and he says john said what they've done for people like you they've numbered these so you don't have to read the head to the fifthstep you don' t have to plan on who Who are you going to take the fifth step with until you write the fourth? In fact, you don't decide who to take it with. You don't decided to take with me. You don' t decide to take a with another priest or a Mormon bishop. You don''t decide that until you're done and then I'll tell you who to go with. See, the danger is if you decide to do this and you decide to take this with somebody before you write it when you start to write it you may write it to please them. You may not be able to be 100% honest but if you don'' t know who you're going to take it with. You have no idea, then you just be honest and write everything down. So he said, just write. And he said now you know how to do it? I said, yeah, I read it in the book. You know, you get those columns. Now they trick you, don't they? They trick you because in that page they only put three columns. He said, you got that first column there? He said you get to write everybody down and you're mad at them. I love that. I love it. That's a long list of people i'm mad at people have done the wrong institutions have done a long list and then you got that other column where you get to say what they did to you to piss you off i like that i can put that down there and then the third column is a little tougher because in that column you're supposed to put you you write down what that affected in you did that hurt your esteem that hurt your pocketbook that what fear did that create inside that's a little harder nobody got that third column down, but that's that fourth column. See? And the problem is you've got to turn the page. They don't list it on that thing. You've got to turn the page until you find that fourth column, which is what your responsibility in the deal is. Hate that part. Don't like that part, but I know how to do that, so he said, now go home and just ride on it for 45 minutes or so until it starts to hurt and then put it up and then just ride around every day until it hurts and then pull it away. So I'd go home at night and I start to write. In five minutes, I put it up. Couldn't do it. Just couldn't do It. But I made a problem. I made A mistake because I told him I started. He said, next time I sign, he says, how's your four-step come along? I said, I started my inventory. Well, don't ever, you new people, don't tell anybody you started because once you tell them that that you started your inventory, then they keep wanting to know how you're coming. you know and you've only got so many things you can say like the how's your inventory it's working on how's you're coming along come along a few more things to go i'll be about done about done you know hell i wasn't even close you know and so he finally got mad at me after a month or so and he said listen john he said you know what i love you and uh i think you're great but he said you know i'm too busy to mess with somebody that's not serious about the program of alcoholics anonymous so he says if you're not serious about this then you just get a new sponsor because i'm serious about it he said no you're not so if you were serious about you'd have your inventory done he said so i'll tell you what he said we can be friends but if you don't have it done this is on a wednesday He said, if you don't have it done by a week from Saturday, that gives you 10 days. If you don'T have it dOnne, then just go get a new sponsor because I'm just too busy to mess with you. We can be friends, but I can't sponsor you. I'm too busy To sponsor people who aren't serious. So I waited until Friday night and went home, made two pots of coffee, you know, and stayed up all night and wrote the inventory. It takes you about six, seven hours writing an inventory. And I got through with that. And Saturday morning, I was excited. I finished my inventory. and I called my sponsor to see who I'm going to take this inventory with on my fifth step. Son of a bitch had gone to Hawaii, you know? I couldn't believe it, you Know. He set a date when he was going to be out of town, you know, very interesting. So anyway, I didn't know what to do, so I didn' t do anything. I just went to a meeting. You know, Sunday came, went to meet him. Monday came, went to work, nothing had happened, nobody said anything, but I just felt kind of dull. I just fell flat, you now, just dull and went to a meeting didn't tell anybody i'd finished my inventory i went to a meeting tuesday comes and i'm flat and i've dulled i'm starting to get restless fear is starting to creep in nothing happened nobody said anything went to meeting wednesday i'm headed into the valley and it's scary you're waiting for that impending doom that fear of impending doom the other shooter drop and it's dark and you're just confused and I don't know what to do by Wednesday hell I can't work I have to go home and the first thing I do when I'm that way is the worst thing to happen because what I do is I love to isolate I loveto go home stop by a 12 pack of diet coke carton of cigarettes and hide out let them call I ain't come I ain't answering that. I've got to figure out what's wrong with me, doesn't I? Think. And so I hid out all weekend at the house and you peek out the drapes, you know, in case then the phone would ring. And that's what's scary. That was before caller ID, you Know? And so you're just sitting there wondering who in the hell is calling me, You know? This is a bad deal. And so finally Monday came, my sponsor got home late Sunday or Sunday afternoon. I called him Monday morning and I'm nuts. I'm just scared to death and I call him on the phone and I said, I need to see you today. So we met for lunch down at Luby's over on Midway and LBJ and we got our food and went through the line and got our Food and sat down at the table and I hadn't said anything we were just chit-chatting and all of a sudden I just lost it and started crying. God, that was terrible. It was one of those real boo-hoo deals, you know. I couldn't stop. I'm this boo-hoon. people are looking at you guy's getting fired I guess he just lost his job my sponsor didn't even look up finally he looked up and says now when did you finish your inventory I said a week ago Saturday when I was supposed to he put it forward no wonder you're nuts he said see the book says that upon completion of the fourth step we immediately take the fifth, we don't wait ten days and I said you didn't tell me who to take it with before you left told me to have it done, I had it done you left me and he said see what's happened is you've uncovered all that dirt and all that garbage you brought all that to the surface and write in that inventory. And now you're sitting there in this pool of dirty water, man, and you need to give it away or you ain't going to make it. That's what you do in the fifth step. You give all that trash away by sharing another human being. And he said, you're not going to take it away. You're not making it 24 hours. And he was right. I mean, I was a basket case. And I said, who do I take it with? And he says, well, it doesn't really matter. He says, you know, because you can take it with me or you can take it avec somebody else that the group discussed some time in the program he said but i i will share this with you knowing your background knowing a little bit about you i do think it's best if you uh take it with a mormon bishop hey by then i didn't care man i'd have published at the wall street journal you know just get out of that crap so i said i didn'T KNOW THE GUY so we went out we got on the phone we found out who it was and uh call him on the phoNe monday afternoon i made an appointment with him monday night i said i need to see you tonight if i can he said fine made appointment monday and he said my sponsor said now he's not gonna know why you're there so take the 12 and 12 with you and before you get started have him read chapter 5 out of 12 and 12 that'll tell him what you're doing there so i went in there seven o'clock and he says well johnny said uh what can i do for you so before we get started read this he took about 10 minutes and read it and he finally closed it and said that is great he said that's the most succinct reason and benefits to confession I've ever read he says is that why you're here you got something to confess kind of he said what and then I pulled out my inventory I'd written. He'd never seen a written confessional, you know. He said, what is that? I said, oh, I just made a few notes. And then I just had to read what I'd written. That's the benefit of writing it down. I didn't have to decide, am I going to tell him this? Am I going to tell him that? What am I going to say? I just had to read what I'd written, you know. And cried a little bit. He cried a little bit, gave me some great input. I'm not an alcoholic by any means. And got through about four or five hours later and closed my book, and he said, is that it? I said, well, no. I said... There's a few more things. There's four. You know the four biggies that you got? Most alcoholics got four. Okay? I just footnoted those at the bottom. In case we ran out of time, I wouldn't have to bring it up. I said, I've got about three or four more things here. But if you've been here five hours, you've got a wife and family. He said, no, let's finish it. So I read the four biggies and closed up the book and I said well, when's court? See, because they don't really like the stuff I do when I'm drinking. The Mormons don't think much about what I do when I am sober. But they really don't like what I'm doing when I drink. you know so and they're pretty fun about it they're very serious about it and they hold a court and they try you for your membership at this court so i closed my book and i said when's court because i know the process i said one's court he says i gotta get back to you so i gave him my phone number and about a week later his boss called me and his boss says i've talked to the bishop and he's told me about this he said uh i guess we need to get together so i made an appointment with him and i met with him took another inventory went through a whole process with him i did another fifth step with him went through they closed up and said when's court i gotta get back to you so i don't know who he talked to but a few days later he called me up and he said court's thursday next thursday told me where to be at 7 30 so i show up at the place i'm supposed to be at 7 30 on thursday and i said they're pretty formed by there there are 15 guys in there there are three guys running the thing chairing the thing and then there's six guys over here that represent the church and their attitude about my activities and there's Six Guys Over Here and they're supposed to defend me okay so i walk in here with these 15 guys took another fifth step went through the whole fifth step with them you know and these six guys over here they got a whole bunch of questions my six guys got nothing to say well hell he admits it you know what are we gonna do i don't know he admits it we can't even defend that i mean you know how are you gonna defend that we don't need to call any witness to saw him do it he's telling us he did it my guy's got nothing to say at all and this one of the guys over here says to me, he says, brother, all right. See, they call me brother down there. He says, brother, Allred, you don't seem very repentant. And I started laughing. I said, repentant? He said, yes, you Don't seem Very repentant about all this. Well, I said I guess if you want me to tell you what it feels like you know to come home three o'clock four o' clock in the morning to your wife and have her just crying waiting up for you because you told her you would never do that again and you've been out drinking all night and chasing strange women and drinking and doing whatever you could do to get in trouble and look into her eyes and because you love her. You don't want to hurt her. And she's just devastated because you lied one more time and you spent money you didn't have one more time. You want me to tell you what that feels like? I can tell you What that feels Like. You Want Me To Tell You What It Feels Like To Come Home Early, 10 O'Clock When I'm Drinking, 10 o'clock in the evening is early for me. Come home at 10 oClock and my little six-year-old son comes running out, crying because it's his birthday and they had a birthday party and you got the presents in the trunk of your car and you left the office early to go home be there by six you know to uh to go to the birthday party so you left at four and you thought well i'll just stop and have one just stop by and have one and then i'll go home and be there time for the party next thing was 10 o'clock and your little son looks at you and says, Daddy, where have you been? You missed my party. Do you want me to tell you what that feels like? I know exactly what that feel's like to feel all that self-hatred and that remorse and that guilt and that shame because you didn't make it. One more time, you didn' t make it and I said, I can tell you all about how this stuff feels but you know that's not my problem today. I told the guy, I said, you know, it's almost like that stuff happened to someone else at a different time. I said you know I have done what I was supposed to do in order for me to stay sober and whatever you guys have to decide is fine I have already accepted the results of this court not knowing what they are because no matter what you decide it's not going to change anything I have to do in order For Me To Stay Sober so i've already accepted whatever you decide not knowing the results it's funny that stuff can no longer hurt me this court can no long to hurt me because i've accepted it whatever you decided is fine because i'm going to do what i have to do to stay sober so i said i've been praying for you guys all day you know because you guys are the ones that have to decide what god's will is for me Because I've already accepted God's will, no matter what it is. And you guys are the ones that have to say what God's Will is for me. So I said, I've been praying for you. I hope you're spiritually fit. And with that, they dismissed me and I went out and waited around the hall. I stood in the hall for an hour. Then they called me back in and the president running the show, he said, Brother R, you talked a lot about God's Well when you were in here. He said, that's what we've been talking about for the last hour. we've been trying to decide what god's will is for you and he explained to me there are four things they could do they could excommunicate me which means they i'm no longer a member of the church they could uh disfellowship me which mean that i'm still a member but i like if i and i can't talk okay i can go to church but i can say anything once i get there keep your mouth shut okay and like for a year or two years if you screw up one time boom you're out the door and that's that they could just fellowship me or they could put me on probation which means i'm a member and i can go when i can talk there's this i can't talk i can go to church and talk but if i screw up boom i'm gone or they can take no action those are the four things they could do he explained that he said we've been trying to decide what god's will is and he said within praying about it and talking about it he said i want to tell you I tell you, the Spirit moved in here and we know what God's will is. We had one vote. We had one vote and it was unanimous. We all know what God's Will is. And it's God'swill that church, the Mormon church, take no action. They didn't do anything to me. You know? See, I couldn't believe it. I really couldn't because I've been, I've never seen when they get 15 guys together they just spend Thursday night, they're going to take some action. Okay? I never know when they did. And they took no action. And what was interesting about that is, you know, the book says that more than anyone else, the alcoholic leads two lives. I think that's one place where the book's probably a little modest. I mean, hell, if we gave down to two, would be okay you know we really would but i had all these lives i'd been living i had this one life at church and this one life at home and this other life at work and this Other Life in the bar and i had a different life in different bars i went to you know i mean if i went to a cowboy boy i was a cowboy you know if i Went to a fern bar i was an attorney you know one of those new york fern bars i was a different guy in every you know every bar i went to you know and nobody knew what was going on in different worlds people at work didn't know about my life over here my wife didn't know about that life no they just don't let those worlds collide i had all these different worlds i was living in a ton of secrets a lot of secrets you know and for the first time when you write that stuff down and you share with another human being there's gonna be one other person on earth that knows what's going on in each world you know but the whole story nobody ever knew the whole store I always had some secrets I always have something that they didn't know about it yeah and when you like that stuff Daniel show no human mean, for the first time now, somebody else knows everything. No more secrets. And by the way, I agree. I'm thoroughly convinced that we are as sick as our secrets. And I start getting sick with my first secret. And it's progressive because then I'll get two secrets and then I get three secrets. Then I get sicker and sicker. and sicker. And by being honest, I don't have to have any more secrets. I can tell people exactly who I am, you know, exactly what's going on in my life. You know, my wife knows everything about me now. I don' t have any secrets from her. What a freedom that is, not to have secrets. You now, what happens when you write that inventory down and share all those things with another human being? What happens? What's the end result of all that whole process you get rid of all that guilt and all that shame you find out that you're not alone and you have all your secrets and that's about it and frankly i'm really disappointed in that okay i wish there was more to that i wish we could inventory that stuff away see because i'm the same person i was before i wrote the inventory i got those same i'm a liar you know and just because i wrote an inventory about lying and wrote down all my lies doesn't mean i'm not a liar i'm still very capable of lying you know nothing changes in that inventory nothing changes the fourth and fifth step i wish we could change in the fourth and fifth steps we don't change we change in six and seven not four and five hello i had lunch with a guy years ago i guess it's been 18 years ago now A friend of mine, Kevin, and we're having lunch on Friday. He says, I've got to get home. I've gotta take an afternoon off work. I've to finish my inventory. I said, you're doing another inventory? He wrote four inventories in one year. And these were four-step inventories. These were going... I said what are you doing? Is this the fourth step? He said, yeah, I'm going back further. I'm trying to peel the onion a little more. You know, I'll get down another peeling of the onion. And I said... What about? He said... Well, relationships. You know I've had a terrible time with relationships. I just can't have a terrible problem with relationships. And I said, do you have problems with relationships? He said, yeah. I said. Do you want a solution? And he said, well, yeah, so I'm doing an inventory. I said no, don't worry about it. Just don't have any. Nah, not going to do that. Not going to be that. See, that's what we try to do. We try to inventory the problem away. I said you know how you have problems with your relationships? I'll tell you this will save you that inventory. If you think about doing an inventory on your relationships because you're having problems with them, let me tell you why you're Having Problems With Relationships. The reason is because you are a selfish, self-centered son of a bitch. That's why you are Having ProblemS With Relationship. I'm in a meeting to get out of the inventory she was doing. She was a chair. She chaired the meeting and her topic was inventories because she had just finished a financial inventory because she's got all kinds of financial problems. And I said, You know why you Are Having Problem S with Finances? this will save you that financial inventory the reason why it's because you're a selfish self-centered son of a bitch that's why you're probably like to spend more than you make see selfish self-centering us that we believe is the root of our problem you know and you're not going to change that by writing an inventory about it see we learned how to change in the very first step we learned How to Change and what do we do we learn how not to drink and how do we do that well we didn't drink one day at a time we talked to our sponsor we read the book we attended meetings and we prayed to have god remove that compulsion to drink what happened it was removed so we're no longer drinking anymore okay let me ask you a question would you ever get sober if you wrote about drinking and continue to drink. No. You had to stop drinking, didn't you? So what I'm going to have to do if I've got problems with relationships and what we're talking about really is a sex problem that's working there when you get through all this stuff. What I'm gonna have to does I'm just I'm not gonna have to stop having relationships for a while. You have to stop it for a While and uh i'm gonna attend the meetings i'm going to talk to my sponsor about it i'm going to pray to have god change me and i'm not going to be changed then i can have them so what i had does i had to quit dating i guess if i could have dated you know and not uh you know hit on her you know to take it to the next level i guess it could have been okay you know but i can't do that no no no i'm gonna it's just gonna be a bad deal so i just quit dating just quit dating all together you know and uh did what miss monster said you know quit dating pray to have god change me talk to him about wouldn't you rather write about it much rather write about it than quit you know now we don't want to quit we want to write about it and continue to do it you know that ain't ever going to work that ain'T never going to work you can write about all you want to right about it and nothing's gonna change you can try to peel that onion one more layer and nothing is going to change till you quit you got to quit doing it you know and and i quit dating i just quit dating and hung out with first of all i started hanging on myself remember the first time i went to a movie by myself i've never done that i'd never been to a move about myself you know i went into a movie about myself and it was cheap it really wasn't half-price you know wonderful and I started and I served being served hanging out with me you know until it's till it hung out with and I used to have to go home and my sponsor said okay you can't watch tv you know for two hours tonight well boy you ever gone home by yourself and not had tv or the radio on for two hours well i had never done that you know so i i read you know and i and i did projects around the house you know i just cleaned up around and i got to be friends with me that i was that i Was okay to be with me you know and i started hanging out with guys hung out with a lot of guys and made some real sad never was real good friends with guys i had friends yeah and we grew up together and did all that stuff but not really really deep friends and i start hanging out guys and doing things with guys and becoming friends and that was and i learned to be friends with gays where the sex deal didn't complicate the issue you know it wasn't when i was hanging out them i was thinking about what we were going to do when we got home you know didn't think about it at all you know and uh and i didn't date for a while and then i'm a friend of mine invited me to this christmas party and people say how long didn't you date nice i really don't have any idea it was it was you know wasn't a year it was probably seven eight months something like that. And I invited this Christmas party of a male friend, not an alcoholic. He invited me to his company's Christmas party. So I go to the company and I meet this gal there. Her name was Nancy and I got her phone number because we were like the two only smokers in the party. And so I got our phone number and I went home and I was excited. I said, man, I think I'll take her, I think she'll go on a date. She was kind of nice and we had a lot in common. So, i called up my sponsor and i said i met this gal and i'm thinking about taking her out on a date and uh he said okay he said you can do that on one condition i said what's that he said you're totally honest if you can be totally honest with her you can go out on the date and so i can be told he said i don't think so but we'll find out you know so so i said now how do i go about how do I go about asking her out on a date. And he said, well, you got her phone number? I said, yeah, I got her phone number. He said, will you call her on the phone and ask her out? Jeez, that's hard. That is hardcore, you know? It's not the way I do it. What I do is I like come to the glass house. Here it is Thursday. You know, we always sit in the same area, same general area we sit there. So I'm sitting over there and maybe she's sitting over i see her oh baby there she is thursday at the glass house i'll be here you know so next thursday i'm here and i just move a little closer and every week i start moving a little closely down this way till i finally get down there and i find out talk to her a little bit find out where they're going to coffee after the meeting so i'll go to coffee at the meeting we're sitting at a big long table and she's sitting over here i'll sit over here and then i'll start to move down every week it takes about two months for me to get a date finally get down there and i start talking to her and i'll finally ask her out after i know everything there's no about her and then i'm totally convinced she'll say yes then i'll ask her out on a date and uh he said no he just called up and asked her out they're not going to manage this dating business you're just going to call her up and ask her so i called up she said yeah so we got on this date and we did everything the first night man it was the first date i'd been on like that we we went uh we went to dinner and a movie and dancing all the first night you know nothing on the second day we did all the first night and i dropped her off two o'clock in the morning when the joint closed you know and i was excited didn't have to ask if i come in for a cup of coffee you know just dropped right you ever notice the only people that drink coffee at 2 a.m are alcoholics everybody else is going home to bed you know but no we want coffee let's get us some coffee you knows two o'clock double espresso that's what we want sleep no no we're gonna step all night all night real soon so i just dropped off and went home you know and i was so excited it's 2 30 i called my sponsor up at 2 30 in the morning i said i'm home he says are you alone i said yeah don't tell me what you call me at 2 32 when you're not alone so i juste dated nancy i just dated her that's all we did. We just dated. First time I just dated anybody, you know? I learned a lot. I learned how not to have that third date conversation, you know? God, it was wonderful. You know, but that third date, we always had that usually on the third date, you know, where you decide what we're doing. Exactly what are we doing with this thing, you know? Where are we going with this? What are your intentions, you I love it. I have guys that call me up and they say, well, he said, you know, I took Nancy out last week. I said, yeah. I know. You told me about that. Well, we've been out three or four times this week. And we've decided just to be friends. We had a long conversation last night and we decided just the same thing. Just to be friend. Well, you blew it. you blew it what do you mean i blew it well you can't you blew up i don't know how to fix that you know because i mean you decided just to be friends what if god wants you to be more than that you can t because you guys decided just be friends you know and i have other guys call me up and this was new to me boy i tell you what this was a shock to me they'd come over and say well you know uh carol and i've been dating three or four times last week you know but nothing serious we're just going to be uh sex buddies you know i said i never they didn't call it sex but they call it something else and i said what is that he said well nothing emotional you know anytime anytime one of us gets a little anxious, you know, a little hyper-physically and we need a little relief. It's just purely being of service to the other person. I was going to have sex, you know, and no attachment. You're kidding me, right? No. I said, whose idea was this? This is wonderful. I never had that idea. She decided to do that. Boo! You blew it. You blew it. Because what if God wants you to have an exclusive relationship? You can't, because you decided something else. My third-day conversation always went something like, you know, Kathy, this is progressing much faster than ever has in my life. It's never progressed this fast in my wife's life. It's the fastest in my whole life before. And I really wasn't looking for a relationship when we started dating. I guess it's a God deal. And then start to define that relationship, you know? I mean, we learned in step one that we can't manage our own life. So we're going to manage this relationship and decide what the relationship is. So I learned how to keep my mouth shut. See, I like to make statements that have long-term ramifications based on a short-term emotion. And then when the emotion changes, I'm thinking, oh, what did I say that for? God, that's insane. So I learned to keep my mouth shut and let God make that relationship whatever he was going to make that relationship out of. It's going to be whatever it's going to be. My sponsor said, hey, if God wants you guys to be together, you can't screw it up. and if he doesn't you can't make it work so why mess with it just let it be whatever it's going to be you got something you need to say tell me don't tell her don't telling what she's doing wrong don't know how she's gonna change what she needs to do you don't turn any of that stuff you tell me that stuff well that God make whatever it was gonna be you know I learned how to be honest in that relationship i've never been honest with a woman never never and that came out a total surprise to me because i never never was on and what happened was i had a date my sponsor gave some great advice he said now we're going to start to treat these ladies like ladies and they're going respond like ladies if you treat them like a lady so i had to ask him out if if i wanted a date for saturday i had asked her out by tuesday five five days ahead of time At least, minimum. Preferably a week, you know? I had to ask her out ahead of time. I just can't call her up on Saturday and say, you want to go out tonight? You can't see her in the meeting Friday and say you wantto go out tonight or tomorrow? No. I got to askher ahead oftime. And that's a bummer, man. And you ladies, if you wait till the last minute to accept that date from him, like some guy asks you out for tomorrow night and you go, don't do it. because he's shopping. All week he's been shopping. He's shopping for a better deal. He couldn't find one, so boom, you're it. Okay, here you are. And then he goes, do you want to go out tomorrow night? Because he's shopping. That's what he's doing. And the guys are the same way because they used to drive me nuts because I'd ask a girl out a week ahead of time or so and she'd say, well you know i live one day at a time i don't ever plan that far ahead they lay that guys don't even go don't ask her because it's just like why don't you call me friday and i'll and we'll see don't call her don't humiliate yourself because what she's doing she's shopping she's looking for a better deal you know if she finds one because i'll tell you what'll happen you'll call friday and she'll say oh i just made plans you did you told me to call frurday yeah but i just make plans you should an hour earlier and i'd have been there you know no and i find that amazing we want to fall in love make all these commitments emotionally and for a lifetime to someone who can't plan five days ahead of time that's nuts you know you want to marry this guy and he won't even give you the courtesy of asking you out five days ahead of times yeah you want spend the rest your life together that's crazy you know and i like to do that so i had i had to ask him out if i wanted a day so i asked nancy out on saturday and it was one of those where the i get paid on the 15th The 1st and the 15th. And the 15ths like fell on Sunday, okay? Well, you know that if the payday falls on Sunday by God they ought to pay you on Friday. That's what they oughta do and most of the time they didn't. And so Friday came and I only had $7. I went into work, got my paycheck and they said, well no, the paychecks they come in from New York and normally they're here and we distribute them when they come here but they didn'T come in this time I guess the mail got held up or something like that so they'll be here Monday and we'll pay you Monday. I said, no. No, I need my paycheck. I need the paycheck today. They said, no, it'll be paid Monday. If you look in the manual, we don't have to pay you until Monday and that's what it says but we normally pay you but not this week. I said no, I want my check. They're only a $22 billion company but I want them to change for me and they said, no, we can't change for you. They don't even know who you are in New York. so now i'm a basket i can't work gotta go home you know leave the office go home stop buy my 12 pack of diet coke carton of cigarettes go home lock the door i gotta figure it out what am i gonna do i got i only got seven bucks in my pocket i got a date tomorrow night with nancy don't know what i'm gonna do finally i figured it out intuitive thought so you know there's a tom thumb right next to where she lives i'll go down to tom thumb tomorrow i'll write a check that time you get a hundred dollars i'll read a check for a hundred dollars they'll give me a hundred we'll go out on this date we'll have a great time monday will come i'll get my paycheck money i'll go down and deposit in the bank i'm feeling great i'm i'm so good i can go to a meeting you know went to a meaning friday night i get to my home group My sponsor's at my home group. It's not his home group? He shouldn't be there. So he's sitting there and looks at me. I sit on the opposite side, don't want to look at him, don't wanna talk to him. He's not supposed to be at my home group on Friday night. What's he doing over here? So I'm getting ready to leave to go home, I don't have time. And he grabs me and says, what are you doing? I said, nothing. He said, well, what are your thoughts? What are you thinking about doing? Well, I said, I had a little problem. I've got it figured out. He said, what? And I said well I've got a date with Nancy tomorrow night. I made this date a week ahead of time like you said I would. I was going to get paid today. I was supposed to get payed today. Didn't get paid. Not going to be paid until Monday. And I got seven dollars. He said well it's going to me a short date. I said well I got it figured out and he said what are you going to do? I said I thought I'd go to Tom Thumb tomorrow on my way to pick her up and i'll write this check for a hundred dollars and he said wait you can't go i said what do you mean i can't go he's remember our deal you could date her as long as you're honest and you're not being honest with her i said wait a minute i'm not being honest with him he said well you're lying to her so i'm out of here he said she thinks you're spending your money you're not you have embezzled you have stolen money from tom thumb okay because you wrote that check you promised them you had that money in the bank you don't have the money to make so you stole money you lied to tom thumb you stole money from them now she's going out with a liar and a thief she doesn't deserve that i said mike i said so what am i supposed to do he says well you call her and tell her the truth worse worse oh i hated that so I went home and that phone just weighs a hundred pounds you know when you pick that up on a dollar number she was home and I said Nancy I know we've got a date tomorrow night but I can't I can' t make it and she said okay see she's not an alcoholic she didn't even know why so I asked her I said well don't you want to know why she said well if you want to tell me so I said well I'm going to get paid I thought I'd get paid I didn't get paid today I'm not going to be paid until Monday I only got $7 in my pocket. I can't afford to go. You happy? She laughed. She said, you only got seven dollars. I said, yes, that's all I got until Monday. She said well, don't worry about it. Here's what let's do. I've been meaning to fix you dinner anyway so I'll cook. You take your seven dollars to Blockbuster. Rent a movie. We'll do the Blockbuster date and bring it over here and we'll have dinner over here and we're going to watch a movie over here. I couldn't believe it. I couldn' t believe it, see that's not the way I'd do it. Now see, I'm the knight on the white horse. Problems? We got no problems you know. I solve your problems baby. I'm gonna ride into your life, I'm going to scoop you up, put you on my horse and work. Money? You need money? you got money we can get money how much money do you want to get we can give money this is not a problem for us that ex-boyfriend he bothering you just give me the nod babe he's out of here I'll fix this deal you know I'm not going to have problems with this and I found out I could be who I am I could tell the truth that she would like me. I didn't even know that. See, I found out there you got these three kinds of women in the AA. You got the damsels in distress. They're the ones that I'm on the knight on the white horse. I'm going to scoop her up and I'm gonna save her. I'm not gonna do anything. I'm just gonna solve her problems. And then you have the forest nightingales. They're are the ones that want to take care of you. Okay? And I'm kind of I can go either way. I can date those that want to be taken care of or I can take care of me. It doesn't matter. I just want to know, which one are you? Are you taking care of me or am I taking care you? Just let me know and we'll get through this. Because it'll work. It'll work, you know. And then we got the healthy ones. Okay. But don't worry about them. You'll never find them. And if you did find one, you wouldn't pick her. Because your picker broke a long time ago. A long time. But I found out by dating Nancy that I'm not my pocketbook. See, I like to build this relationship. I like to paint a picture to the girl of the person I think she's going to like that I think she wants and then usually about about three months she finds out that this picture of who he painted doesn't match reality of what I see because the whole thing has been built on a lie it's been built on the line and then it falls apart that's why most of my relationships lasted three months you know until they found out he's not that way that's not what he is at all you know but i found out i can be exactly who i am let's find out who i'm first before we get all this time and emotion involved in it and if you like it great if you don't no problem we can go on because you're not going to change me see and i'm not going to choose you they told me a long time ago that if you can't accept her just the way she is no changes then you're wasting your time because it ain't going to change he ain't gonna change no matter what he says no matter what she says we ain't Gonna Change you know I'll never forget man I was dating this other gal well let me tell you I dated Nancy we finally quit dating and I can't say we broke up because we didn't we just quit dating and we're still friends first time i'd ever quit dating anybody but we were still friends never happened before because usually there was nuclear war you know there's this big blowout you know that you have this big ugly fight and then you storm out of the house and slam the door and thenyou may or may not call them back the next and say this just ain't working for me you know good luck to you but this is not working hope to see you around you know but always with a big blowout but just to sit there and say you know what we just quit dating we didn't even say we're not going to date anymore we just quit dating you know and and she's still a friend in fact i made a 12-step call on her dad 10 years later she called me up because once a year she'd call or something i'd see her wouldn't meet for coffee and just talk. We're just friends. It was incredible, you know? And didn't have to force anything on her. Didn't have a lighter to get her in bed. Didn' t have to do any of that stuff, you know. Sex became something other than what I had always thought it was going to be, you know, see, I'm an event person. i am i like events i like i like parties you know i like ball games and i like events like because you know when they're starting okay we're having fun now you know and and and you know once over the event's over it's done so then you can go home you know I'm an event person I'm not much of a process person you know process just is just it's just the process you know it's the process and what i found out see i get my processes and my events mixed up because i used to think that see sex is an event you know when you're starting you know when you don't okay so it's kind of an event right but love is a process. Love is a process. And I always thought that if I had sex, I must be in love. But it's just a process and sex is the event. And so I had to learn that I can date a girl and not have sex. And that was a real rude awakening to me too. But I did. I dated a lot of her. And the thing that was amazing is then you can just be friends. you know, and nothing gets in the way. But I had to quit dating to go through that. I had not date anybody and learned to be friends with guys, learned how to be a friend, learned how do all that stuff and prayed to have God change me. And when's it okay to have sex? I don't know, you know. I will say that if I have taken the third step and turned my will and my life over the care of God and invited God into my life, then that means I've invited God into every aspect of my life. The bedroom and all. So I guess when I can invite God into the bedroom, then it's okay to have sex. If I can't, can't do it. Can't do it if I can buy a garden. So what does that mean? That means I may date somebody i don't set okay the third date we can do it because maybe on the third date you can't do it maybe you'll never be able to do that you know maybe onthe first date i donno all i know is that it never happened on the first date for me i never was comfortable enough to invite god into the bedroom on the first day you know but when i could then i guess it's okay that's between you and your god and That's why the book says we don't make any judgment about anybody's sex life. But I learned how to do all that with Nancy, and I dated a lot of girls, and I had a wonderful time. And I think what happens is we look at that inventory as being something that's going to change us, and it doesn't. It changes in six and seven. We get rid of all those characteristics, and all those character defects can be done the same way. I'm going to have to quit doing them one day at a time and pray to have God change me. I think What Happens is really pretty simple. when we come into aaa we're on a pretty broad path pretty broad highway i can do anything on that highway i could run all over that highway as long as i don't drink i'm okay and then after a few years what happens the road gets a little narrow on you and then you're doing the same stuff you were doing last year but it's like you're over here on off the road you know and you're stumbling over rocks and weeds and bull rushes and you're miserable so you got to give Give that up. That puts you back on the road. Now you can do everything but drink and maybe these two items, and you're okay. You can run all over the road except for drinking these two things, and you'll be okay. And then a few years go by, the road gets a little narrow on you. You're doing the same stuff you were doing last year, but now you're off the road again. So you've got to give that stuff. Really, the road is really like an hourglass because it does get narrower on you, but it opens up because the more I'm able to surrender and give to God, the more freedom i actually have never was i more in captivity than when i was drinking right total slave to my addictions gave up alcohol did i lose anything got more freedom didn't i it was a lot more stuff and the more i'm able to surrender it's progressive the more I'm able surrender the more Freedom I'm going to enjoy and the more happiness i'm able to experience you know they say well what i think happens really in alcoholics anonymous is it's going to be progressive forever and i don't even know what my character defects are today i know i got some but until they're bothering me guys say what what character defects do i need to work on well i don' t know you got me what's bothering you Because until it bothers me, I'm not going to change. You can say, I wouldn't do that. Well, that's you. How many times did they tell me, you're drinking too much, man. Did I quit? No. Once it bothers you, once it bothers us, I'll take a look at it. I'll quit. When the pain gets bad enough, when the pain of doing it is worse than the pain of not doing it, then I seem to quit. you know and and what happens is i'm doing stuff today but i won't be able to do next year i don't even know what that stuff is because it's not bothering me yet i did stuff last year i can't do this year so i just had to quit okay that's called progression not perfection it's progress not perfection so as i progress down this road of happy destiny i'm going to be surrendering stuff my whole life i imagine because as things as the road gets narrow on me and i have to give more stuff up the more freedom i'm gonna have until i finally get to the point where i guess i had one guy tell me that then you become totally humble when you're totally humble god can hold nothing back. And you get it all, you know? So my road to progress, there's stuff I'm going to give up this year. I gave up, and I left smoking as a character defect, you know? It was an addiction. And I gave that up, what's it been now, six, seven years, something like that, whatever it's been. And then I had to give ups. I gained 30 pounds immediately. Like in a month. I couldn't believe it, man. It was incredible. And I had to give that up. And there are things, I don't even know what they are yet, that I'll be giving up because it will be progression and I don' t even know what those are. But that's the way it seems to work for me. And we'll talk about the rest of the program next week. Thank you. Thank you.