Marriage and the Program – Couples in Recovery Workshop – Part 1 of 2 – Peggy M.

This video is a work of fiction. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is coincidental and unintentional. If you find the video useful, please like, share the video, and subscribe. Thanks for watching it. Hey, hey, save a little bit of it for later, will you, for Christ's sake? My name is Dick Martin and I'm an alcoholic. Everybody, but for the grace of God and the actions and a sponsor at Alcoholics Anonymous have been sober since September 15, 1965 and I am very pleased about that. And I'm Peggy Martin, and I'm an alcoholic. And through the grace of God and fellowship of people and sponsorship, I've been sober since February the 4th, 1964, which makes me sober longer than him. and never, never lets me forget it. You know, we were talking at lunch. We were sitting with Peg Sponsor and a gal at Peg Sponcers and we're sitting there and Peg says, you know, doing this thing kind of reminds me, she said, I think we're kind of an elderly Ken and Barbie. And I said, Oh, God, I hope not. And I said, I don't mind being elderly, but I would not like to be considered Ken and Barbie. In the first place, just to give you some, if you're new to us, which some of you are, we'll be married 22 years, August 12th this year. We, after having our first date on June the 6th, 1966, we got married a few weeks later. She, it wasn't a whirlwind courtship or anything like that. Don't want to give you the wrong impression. She wasn't pregnant. No. Couldn't have been. Everybody. We believe in courtship, even if they are short courtships. Ours was not a marriage that was made in heaven. It was boy meets girl on the AA campus, and we went from there. We have a good marriage. We're not wonderful. she's not wonderful I mean, I'm not wonderful we liberally take each other's inventories at the most inappropriate time usually when the other one is sensitive the conversation usually starts out with I'm going to take your inventory now I mean, we even let each other know that it's going to be hell for a few minutes. But our relationship is a good relationship and a substantial relationship because of one very simple thing. And the simple thing is that we have put AA first in our lives. We have put the fellowship and the program and the ideals and the ideas of Alcoholics Anonymous first in our lives. That comes before, as far as I'm concerned, it comes before Peggy comes along. It comes before anything else comes along, that's first. and uh i was taught early on that it's very wise to get into the fellowship before you attempt to get into a relationship was also taught that you shouldn't get into an emotional relationship within the first year that you're sober now mind you if your arithmetic is working very good i I wasn't quite sober 11 months when we got married. And ours was not an emotional relationship. We did not get emotionally involved. It was based on lust until September the 15th. Now, she had been sober long enough, but I hadn't. So mine was just lust until December the 15ths of that year. And then I began to develop an emotional relationships because that's the only way to do it. I got married, we were talking about getting married someday, and she said, how about next week? Friday. Yeah, how About Next Friday? And I thought, my God, that's a little quick, but, you know, I thought I was talking about December. And she thought that was too far off, which was fine. And I said, but we can't do it until I get in touch with my sponsor. And she said, why? And I says, because I promised myself that I wasn't going to make any major decisions in my life without talking to my sponsor first. And my sponsor was out of town at a convention, and I knew where he was, but I didn't know what hotel he was in. But I called his home and talked to his daughter, and his daughter told me, and I dialed a hotel in El Paso, Texas. He happened to be in his room, and I told him I was thinking about getting married. And he says, who are you thinking about marrying? Peggy? And I said, yeah. And he said, yes, it'll be okay because she's been sober longer than you have. And he warned me right at the very beginning. And I'm the cruder one of the two up here. You'll hear some nicer things from her. He warned me at the very beginning. He said, Alcoholics Anonymous is in meetings in church basements. It comes in groups. And he said, when you all stay at home and talk about the 12 steps and the 12 traditions and all that sort of thing, that is not AA. It's ass to ass. I understand. don't be insulted by it he said if you want to stay sober and continue to grow in your life you'll go to AA meetings when you go to meetings if it's a discussion meeting you'll sit at one table and she'll sit at the other if it is a speaker meeting you go and you stick with the guys and let her stick with the gals it even gets to the point where the majority of the time when we go to a meeting She takes her car, and I take my car. I mean, we don't even go to meetings or come back home with each other. It seems to me that frequently we oftentimes end up meeting in bed, and that's not a bad place. So I, in speaking of Jim, he was a little brown nose there, so I wouldn't take his inventory from the podium when he's defenseless. He always hates that when I do that. I told him the other day, you know, we were talking about doing this, and I told Him the other Day, I said, You know, I Said, You're one of those people that we have never really, that Peggy and I have never Really sat down and talked to you and Amy about your relationship. I said You must have learned about it before you got married. and I think that they did I think they learned about it before they got married not that everybody doesn't need a tune-up every now and then but very simply, you know, they get along well and I don't think that I need to go to Al-Anon to live with you I don' t think so either strange way to turn it over isn't it one of the things that I think that we had noticed through the years and I'd like to say this as Dick said we don't have a perfect marriage whenever I hear anyone from the podium talk about how they have a Perfect Marriage I'm a little bit suspect of that because when you've got two alcoholics or an alcoholic and a person that suffers from malanonism together in a house you've got two complete characters there i mean there is nothing boring about us we are we have these exaggerated emotions you know we're like i always like drinking because it turned black and white tv into color you know and it's right in front of my eyes and i think that's kind of the way our relationships are they're they're really in full technicolor you know we have if we're gonna if we finally cross over the hump and decide that we're going to give ourselves to somebody we do it and i mean we do it probably to our own detriment at times and what that does is that it makes for a very interesting combination of of things and an interesting situation in in the household and one of the things that we noticed was through the years of having lived together and fought together and i was so grateful we didn't have a fight today because it's hard to get up here and talk about traditions in relationships when you're mad at what so we've been we have been we've been really nice it isn't over yet no the day is not over the day isn't over yet and we may do it right up here you never know but you know one of the things that we noticed was that that really when we applied the principles in Alcoholics Anonymous in our lives in our married lives that we really had been doing that you know it's kind of like we're not smart or anything we just kind of bumbled along and made a lot of mistakes and I was reading A.A. Comes of Age one time and I thought you know these battles and things that they had in the groups and stuff sounds like Dick and I you know It sounds like the battles that we've had, the ego deflation that we have had, the struggles and the pulling this way and that, and the competition and all of that sort of thing within the family. It sounds Like Us. And it occurred to me that those problems that we had worked out, the way they had been worked out was by using the principles of Alcoholics Anonymous. And there is no place that these are embodied than they are in the traditions. You know, the traditions, and it was a long time before I realized this because i'm kind of dumb anyway about this kind of thing i i'm not supposed to be but i seem to be emotionally kind of dum about these things it occurred to me that every single one of the traditions was ego deflation at depth it really had something to do with ego which led to the second logical conclusion and that was that i as an alcoholic must have a problem with ego in some fashion or another that i'm always having to get deflated now i never knew how to be a true partner to anybody did did you really when you were drinking i was always a loner i was alone inside i was a lone in the crowd i was aloner i was so scared i was so scared to let you have my feelings because i was afraid if you took my feelings that you were going to hurt me bad and i'm not speaking of you but the world at large and so what i did was i medically sealed myself i took a little can of teflon spray and sprayed it all the way around my emotions and i used men just like i used toilet paper no not exactly not exactly okay I think maybe I ought to study this for a while. Don't study this. I'll go over here. Don't studied it. Not exactly toilet paper, but something disposable, you know, something you can just be quiet now. I'm just trying to get myself out of there. They were useful. They were helpful as long as I was not involved with them. You understand? I mean, I never thought of myself as having relationships with people because I didn't give a damn about them. And I thought you had to give a down about somebody to have a relationship with them. And I think that's true. You got to go one way or the other. You might have a hate relationship with somebody, but you got some feeling about them I never had any feeling. I mean I was sealed, you know, and I just went about my business that way. And he was the first person, well I was going with this guy who was a postman And he kissed funny It hurt when he kissed I didn't want to date him too frequently But he got drunk and went crazy And commandeered an ambulance And barricaded himself inside his house with a double barrel shotgun So I figured that one was over Thank goodness I wasn't around So then I met him, and he was so persistent. He was like he was irritating. You know, he was everything I didn't think I wanted. You know? I'd always said to my mother, I'm going to marry a professional man. I'm gonna marry somebody tall and dark. I'm getting married. I'm get to marry somebody who has never been married before, and I'm got to marry someone that is sort of romantic. Well, I did marry a romantic. He is a romantic, but he's not tall and black. he's kind of built like an outhouse you know with blonde hair he's sturdy, very sturdy he's a salesman which is a profession I suppose the only thing I have to say about that it kept you from starving good living good living salesman, he'd been married before and he had kids by this other marriage this was unacceptable to me So to prove to you just exactly how unacceptable it was, I married him two months after I had the first date with him. It was – I told my mother. She said, what about this Martin fellow? You know, he was getting me boxes because I was moving. And she said, well, whatabout this Martinfellow? And I said, yeah, he's a nice guy. It's too bad it'll never last. Well, that was 22 years ago. You know so it just shows you I wasn't really with it. So we looked at things and we decided, you know, that that's what had been happening in our lives. And we decided to kind of go through them just on a lark to see how much they fit. And that's how this sort of came about. It was in hindsight. And I, you Know, to really get into it, you Now, I had to allow this man who was persistent and irritating and always there. he was always there and he was always so nice I figured he had to have something up his sleeve and I yeah I know what it was I wanted something she had yes you did I was willing to go to any lengths to get it he was willing to go any lengths to get but he he was even ready to take certain steps at that point a little bit further on he was ready to take certain steps but he wanted to put off the steps till December or something and I wanted i had found at the my my night in shining armor and i wanted to whisk him off and and he had bought a new car he had first got he had a ford falcon with bourbon bumps all over it and it had stains in the front seat somebody had urinated in the back of his car and he was like oh my god on the frontseat on the driver's side but it wasn't me so he traded in his i'm the only one have drove it but he traded in his ford falcon and he got a pontiac but gold pontiac bonneville pontiac whatever convertible which cost us more than than our child support payments and alimony and alomony right i bought that the afternoon of june the 6th 1966 by the way i bought that the same afternoon that i had a date with peggy that our first date that night i wasn't trying to impress her with material values nothing grandiose anyway so and and we ended up getting married and these experiences some of the experiences that we're going to share with you for a little while this afternoon are the good and the bad because i have i've got to say this right off the bat I love this man I love him for everything that he is and the way that I feel when I am around him most of the time you're shorter than I am you may be sober longer but nothing stays wonderful forever nothing stays terrible forever and i expected to go into marriage into this relationship and that it would be blue birds of happiness i never figured they'd crap on me from time to time it was part of my adjustment to reality you know it was a part of i had just the same unreal expectations of this relationship as i did of everything else in my life it was gonna be marvelous and it has been marvelous but there had been times that have been interspersed that it hasn't been so marvellous and sometimes the terrible times the really bad times are not as hard to live through as just the times just day after day afterday just living together day by day by day. And that's hard. That's the hardest part is to living when there's no thrill attached to it, you know, where you're just there. And I love this man. I respect him. I respect him most for his membership in Alcoholics Anonymous and the way that he is able to deal with the people that he deals with. One time my mother, we were thinking about characters, you know, the different things that made people up and what about people and she said what do you admire about dick i said he's a great aa member and he's good visitor she said a visitor that's not very good i said yes it is for somebody who is a non-visitor i'm a non visitor i mean if i you got to have a purpose you want to visit with me state your purpose i'm busy you know i gotta dick will sit and visit with you for hours he He is so good. He comes from a long line of North Carolina porch sitters. He can just sit and visit, and he's so patient. He is much more patient than I am. So the first tradition says our common welfare should come first. Personal recovery depends upon AA unity. It also means that personal recovery depends upon the unity of the relationship, and that has to come first, The idea of staying together has to come first. That means the commitment for one person to stay with another, regardless of whether it's marriage or whatever it happens to be, whether it is simple friendship. It really doesn't make any difference, but there has to be a commitment to be where you are. It has to have a commitment on both sides. Both individuals have to be committed to be there, and they have to commit on a daily basis. It isn't something that you say, oh, well, you know, I'm going to be married forever. Or like my first wife told me, she said, well, if this doesn't work out, we can always get a divorce. I didn't expect the marriage to last very long after that remark, and it really didn't. But the point I'm trying to bring across, without commitment to be there, it isn't going to stay. And that commitment has to be on a daily basis. Some days you have to do it at a moment at a time. You know, I was sober maybe, not sober, we were married maybe six months, and I remember making an AA talk and saying, you know, the fortunate thing I've come to realize is that I'm only married to her at one time. And I thought how wonderful that was of me, until later on I began to realize that she was only marriedto me a day at a timetoo. You know, I get a little wonderful in my ideas of thinking how wonderful I am in this whole deal occasionally or frequently. It doesn't make any difference which one it is. I feel somewhat martyred occasionally on a daily basis, but it's only a brief period of time, fortunately. And I don't try to hang myself up and do an Easter bit too often, but I do occasionally. And I believe that I observe her hanging in the shadow also occasionally. But we only have to do that, we only have to live together a day at a time. And if things get too serious, we don't even have to go out and do that because I can get up and go out and I can go to a meeting or I can call a guy I sponsor or I go have lunch with somebody. I can I can Get away from her easy and principled in a principled manner and legitimately and honestly, I can do that without hurting her feelings or without making her look less. And you know, another good trick on this one is about the unity business is I have always thought of this. Whenever, you know—in public, now this is in public—we may have differences, and we can disagree privately, but I try very hard not to say bad things to other people about my husband in public. And that's not a phony thing. It's just that it gets to be a joke. You get carried away with it, at least I do. And I don't find that it's really their business what my personal disagreements with him are, except perhaps with my sponsor, but not in general because it becomes a habit to jokingly put somebody down. And I always think of it as, in private when we have disagreements, we can, I never knew this. I went all through my life not knowing this. And it's so simple. You can disagree without being disagreeable. Because see, to me it was always a personal attack. Because I always felt so, I had so little self-worth that any time anybody said anything that was a disagreement with me, It made me feel less than, and so it was personal. I've learned that we can disagree without being disagreeable. It is not a personal attack. It is NOT a character assassination. We can disagree WITHOUT being disagreeble, and still have that unity. I always like to think of what, when we get into these discussions at home about whatever it manages to be a lot of topics is think of it i always think of a newcomer standing at my shoulder and how would i behave for that newcomer standing atmy shoulder i'm sure he's going to behave the way i do behave sometimes when i get upset which is he is a very stoic person he's very he's quiet and deadly you know he'll get you you know in ways that are so effective and i am the the blithering idiot type that just blows like a you know i mean i just i always 24 hours later i always think i could have said this and it would have been so effective you know and i but i don't i just right then i'm going i don t know but you're just i don' t like your face at or how do you go up, you know? I just get out of here or, you now, whatever. And, you kno, if I, I wouldn't act like that if I had a new person there. Actually, while she's doing that, she thinks I'm being stoic and that's not what I'm doing. I'm sitting there saying quietly in my mind but never out loud, just keep it up, bitch. I'll get you later. Yeah! those are things that are better left unsaid that has no purpose in a in a true partnership it really doesn't i mean it's effective but it makes things exciting yeah so so the object the object is not to feed someone when they're You know, when someone is feeling bad, don't feed them either. Don't give them anything to—don't put fertilizer on the situation. There's no sense making—you know, if you're wrong, say you're right. Hey, I was wrong. I'll try to do better. Oh, it just irritates me when he does that. It irritates him. Yes, but it's AA and she can't do anything about it. And that's worse. It's worse because then I have to act principled, you know, and that's hard sometimes. The one thing that I have learned, more than I have learned anything else, is that I never have to tell her I'm sorry. And I don't use that word at all. I don' t use the word sorry. I never tell her, I'm Sorry. I absolutely do because I find all the time I do things that are wrong but I get a delight out of doing them. And I'm really not sorry for the fact that I've done them. Matter of fact, I am damn glad that I did them but I'm sorry I got caught. But he does say he's good at saying he's wrong. He was even, he was good at saying he was wrong right from the beginning he was and I was never good at saying that I was wrong or really even sorry because I have basically kind of a little nasty personality, you know, I'm just a little nasty thing there and he's really been more honest from the begining. Now I've I like to think that I've, you know, developed quickly along those lines and so we're sort of on a par. But in the beginning I admired him for that. I admired him for his honesty. And I would tell him that. And we'll get into talking about attaboys later on. The second tradition says, for our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority, a loving God as he may express himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trustful servants they do not govern. This is one of my favorites, because I need it so badly. Because I figure that I'm, I mean, I just have this innate sense that I am the boss. I've always, my father is a, he retired as a Lieutenant General from the Air Force and he was the Surgeon General of the Air Force and was a graduate engineer as well. He was used, and in the military, and he was used to getting his way and dick always calls me uh general when i get sort of bossy because it reminds me how much like my father i am i just have this sense of being right and that if they would all just do things my way and you know what ragging is where you just get to ragging on somebody can you ever stand outside yourself and watch yourself rag on somebody i you as you all know, I have a sort of a middle linebacker personality. That's football team. And I'm not actually athletic, but I love to be participating in cheering for athletes. I have broken a rib that way. As a matter of fact, Phil McKeown broke my rib that way, we were excited over a touchdown and it just happened. We were jumping up and down and I heard it pop and I sprained my ankle badly And I twisted my knee And this is all just watching it on TV So I have that And I've always wanted My son and my husband I always said You ought to teach Jimmy How to throw a ball You know, you ought to Teach him how to throw A ball I can't throw a bowl I throw a bow like a sissy I want you to teach him How to through a bow Dick says I can throw a bough I said Well, I thought Learn, you know I mean Learn It's not too late You know It's no too late You know He didn't know how to swim because he was a mad scientist when he was a kid and he'd mix some stuff together, it blew up in his pocket and it scarred him and he never learned how to swim. So I figured he could learn to throw a ball, you know something. I never learned how to swam because I was never near the water to learn how to swimming. Oh, and they were poor. I've heard this before. Are you very poor? No. My family was too busy drinking and they didn't have anything to do with kids. Or water or nothing. Anyway. Certainly nothing to do So I'm sitting there, and I'm watching this. I'm watchin' this. I want to watch a ball game on TV or somethin'. And they go, oh, no, it was basketball. Basketball. They said, don't... I told them, and what did I say? I said, I'll never get into basketball. Never. Football is my game. I'll ever get into football. I'll always never get in a basketball. Well, why is he just watchin'? The finals. You know, I mean, I just watch the good basketball. Well, they're all moanin'. Oh, no. Jimmy. Jimmy and Dick are moaning. they say oh no she's into basketball now you know so they're sitting there slobs in my mind they're сидding there and so i got a righteous feeling like i should tell them what to do just this just uncontrollable feeling so i said you guys i should be look at me the ultimate authority. I am, I am a, I'm 50, and look at, mmm, I mean, I mmm, and I mmm, and you know, and you know. I said, I know right, I'm sergeant in charge of fat. I know how to do it, you know? I said you guys are nothing but a bunch of couch potatoes. You know, they're like, and I don't remember what Jimmy said, but it was something like, it's okay. It's alright, Mom. We just sort of hate you when you get like this. I think I know right. I mean, I'm leading by example. When she gets like that, I just wait ten minutes because it goes away. It's not being stoic. It's just knowing it'll disappear, you know. Things become less important after she says them. Yeah. You... i think he just got me but i wasn't listening anyway we gotta you know one of the things that we have found is that we have to leave when it comes to really important things the neat thing about us is that we've learned how to communicate and we have learned how to laugh he he is the funniest thing he taught me how to laugh i i've always had a good sense of humor but I forgot how to use it. And when I was drinking, my muscles atrophied, and they got stiff and I couldn't laugh because there wasn't anything funny. And our first Christmas we had no money. I mean, zilcho, we owed everybody, you know, we had No Money. And he said, and I'm thinking, I'm saying, oh, I was always very spoiled. I'm not getting any Christmas presents. I'm never going to get a Christmas present ever again. and I guess I'll just have to go out and make a 12-step call or something dumb like that. And he says, I got a present for you. Well, you know how our minds are. I said, that so-and-so. Now he's got me a present, and I don't have him a present. So he's just doing it to make me look bad. And I'm playing this in my mind. I'm not saying anything, but I'm planning this in mine. So he said, just a minute. he goes off in the bathroom, closes the door it's the only door in the apartment except the front door it's a bathroom, it's not a place you can get any privacy so he goes into the bathroom and he leaps he comes leaping out of the bathroom stark naked with a big red bow tied around his ding-a-ling and he's singing here comes Santa Claus and I gave her that gift over and over and over again the whole the reason for saying this and the reason for talking You know, life is for fun and for free And that don't cost anything Yeah, that's right And it's fun It is fun, and it can be fun You know? And if it isn't fun, you're doing it wrong Oh, dear Lord get a red bow get a pumpkin get something you know it's really like she made a statement if it isn't fun you're doing it wrong and it's like staying sober isn't it it's not it's just like staying sober if it is fun you're done there's something wrong with what you're going and life should be fun there should be joy in life we should have a good time and we should have a good time in our relationship with our partners whatever it happens to be We should have a good time It's really for fun and for free What can we do for fun And for free What's good You don't have to spend A lot of money You don' t have to Impress your partner By buying Dozens of roses Or Diamond rings Or Where's Scott B He used to be into that There he is He used the He used it He used him He used me in that Before he met Mary Yeah Mary wants him To go back to it a little anyway one rose one rose oh there's nothing that'll bring a tear to a woman's eye like one red rose and that nothing nothing makes a man feel any more simple and stupid than walking into a house carrying one rose in his hand yes a bundle of my can understand one rose it's just like a little boy saying, gosh, here I am, mommy. Don't we eat that up? Do we eat that up or not? Oh, the little boy. Third. Well, I think that we ought to say something about courtship just for a moment. I know it's an old-fashioned word And it sounds strange to young people because they believe that they're supposed to get into a relationship. And relationship involves some moaning and grunting and things like that. And, you know, the guys that I sponsor, they say, well, I'm into our relationship. And I think, yeah, that's wonderful. You know, it'd be kind of nice if you got to be friends first. You know, it'd kind of be nice if you got to know each other first and know who likes what and where and why and when and all of those very simple things that a courtship has to do with. A courtship obviously doesn't have to be long to be effective. You know one thing that's fortunate being a member of Alcoholics Anonymous and being an alcoholic and living with another one or dating one I already know what she's like. I know more about her, possibly even, certainly more about her than her parents do. Oh, yeah. Much more. Because I know what her insides are like because they're like my insides. And I know What Her Insides Need, and I know What My Insides Need. And it's the same thing. It's the samethang. And I found out that I don't need someone to love me. I really don't needsomeone to loveme, but I need somebody to love i have love within me to give and i need somebody to love i don't need somebody to love me if they love me in return that's icing on the cake baby but i can love and just simply love he's better at it too than i am because he's very giving and it took a long time for me to do that because i think i was more frightened maybe but i know that that in in our communication and in our courtship and being you know in the beginning i think we were we were like very careful with each other's feelings because we didn't know each other that well but as we have grown in understanding and respect we i'm hooked on to you I know we have been able to develop more of a sense of humor and to josh each other a lot more he used to walk by me and slap me on the behind and I never liked that because to me it was demeaning and I at first wouldn't tell him about that because I was afraid that it would upset something but eventually i became sure enough in our relationship that i would be able to say that to him and he quit you know he quit because he didn't want to do anything that was good it's okay pat wait a minute we got to get on with this you know oh that's what i was thinking okay we got you got to value the right of the opinion of the of your partner you got to listen to it. You've got to listen to what they have to say, and not with a closed mind, but with an open mind. You'd be amazed how many times your partner has a better idea on how to bring something about than you do. And that goes for both sides. You know, you've got to feed each other your opinion, not demanding that your opinion be the only thing, not demanding that this has to be the way, but simply being able to express what you feel about the situation. And keep an open mind. Keep an open mind, rather than it always having to be by way or personally involved in the whole thing. Keep a open mind I've got to start on this one You start on the last one Let's not fight The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking Okay I'm married to an alcoholic, she's married to an alcoholic. The only requirements for our membership and that partnership is a desired to stop drinking because if she gets drunk i pack her a suitcase it goes on the front steps and she goes out before it and that's it i i am not made of alanon material yeah now she stuck around she stuck around i i couldn't have put up with me drinking as a matter of fact it damn near killed me putting up with meat drinking much less trying to put up With somebody else drinking I've refused to do that. I just will not do it. I won't tolerate a goddamn minute So so really the desire the desire that we have to keep this thing together Starts with a desire each individual's desire to stay sober, you know to be an active part of the product Alcoholics anonymous now, I don't know what would happen if we didn't do this You know, we just always have we've always been active members. It's always been a basis for our relationship We've always gone to a lot of meetings, we've always had sponsors, we have always done those things. So I don't know what it would be like if it wasn't that way. But I know what's it's like now and I don' t want to change that. Drinking on either part would impugn the integrity of the individual to such a point that there is no relationship exists, nothing remains. There has to be integrity. I have to have my integrity, she has to have her integrity and you can't cross those lines. If you cross over those lines, then it's trouble, and it's Trouble City. And drinking for an alcoholic is crossing over those lines. It's giving yourself away piece by piece by piece all over again. And I've done that once, and I did it for years, and I'm not going to do that anymore. I am a valuable human being, and I deserve to live as a valid, viable human being. I will not live in any other fashion. You know, there's a lot of expectations that we have when we go into relationships of mine was the white charger and that he was going to sweep me off my feet and he was gonna be this tremendous sex partner because I knew so little about sex and I really did. I knew a lot about, you know, the other stuff but I didn't know about clean and healthy sex. I knew about the other things. I knew all kinds of other stuff. I knew about intimidation, I knew about back seats of cars and stuff like that but I didn't know what a healthy sex relationship was all about and he taught me and we had some problems with that, we had a lot of problems withthat but through those sorts of things we learned but I'll tell you something there's a couple of things I remember that come up in this tradition one of them is Clancy has a great story about a couple, the first few months that they're together or that they have this relationship their hands touch across the breakfast table and it's like sparks and the lights go on and the whole world comes alive and they're shivering oh here you have the salt and then after several months of being married and they reach for the salt and their hands touch and one of them says, pass me that goddamn salt. You know, it's a question of how you are going to relate to each other. You can't expect it to be marvelous all the time. You've got to expect sometimes that it's going to be bad but it doesn't mean it's gonna be, that it is over. You know that's what I always thought. I thought oh something little bit goes wrong and it's over. It's over, he hates me or I hate him, which is even worse, you know. And we might as well get a divorce. And I used to say that to him. I usedと say it. He never said it because, I think because he'd had the experience. But I used то say to him, I remember one time I got so mad at him. Physical violence is a never, never acceptable. But if there's... He doesn't get physically violent because if he did, he'd break both my kneecaps and, you now, string me over a wall or something. He has these visions in his head what he'd do. But he's never been physically violent But I don't have visions. I just plant one on, you know, on your kisser. And so he turned away from whatever it was that I was saying, which always makes you mad. You know, you want to argue. You don't want somebody to walk out of the room. So I planted both of my fists in his back, and he turned around, and I knew I'd had it. Boy, I knew it. He said, Don't ever do that again. And I said, We just might as well get a divorce. He said don't ever say that again unless you mean it. And I knew he meant it. And I didn't want to hurt him. I was just trying to get my way. I was JUST trying to get my away. Threats don't work. Threat's don't work. You don't have to let threats work. You know, my feeling about that is if you're threatening to get a divorce, GET A DIVORCE. Pack your clothes and get out. Or I'll pack mine and get out. I don't care. I DON'T WANT TO BE THERE. I DONT WANT to be where I'm not wanted. And so if you tell me want a divorce that's telling me you don't want me and i don't wanna be there and i'm not gonna be there because i am a valuable valid human being and if you don t want me somebody does me i want me it's the old hand on the doorknob syndrome you know it's somebody s always got their hand on a doorknobs I m leaving if i don t get this I m leave if i dont get that I'm leaving if this doesn't work out. And they've always got their hand on the door. I can't live like that. You cannot live without the faith, at least some faith, at least sum of the time and hopefully a lot of the time in your spouse or your partner. You have to have trust and faith. Okay. Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or AA as a whole. And in that, we're talking about each partner has a right to autonomy as well. Accept any actions that they would take that would affect the family in a derogatory or a negative sense. And that is to say, I can't do anything that would effect Peggy in a negative way or my son Jim in a negative way. I have to consider others before I take an action. and in considering others, then I can make an action based on that, not an actionbased on what I want to do. There's another thing that comes into this too, and that is this, I don't know how you are, I don' t know how Debbie is, but I have a feeling she's like me. When I havea pigeon who demands my attention, who demandsmy love, I retreat. It's like somebody, it's like they go, you know how kids, when you get on the phone, and they always come and they go, like that, you know, and it's always when you're on the phone. You know, they always try, and I feel like, and when they get too close to me, when they start crowding me, what they're doing is they're demanding that I love them on their terms. I can't do that. I don't know how to do that, but what it makes me feel like doing is saying, go away from me, and it' s like with things. I cannot, and God knows I try, Tell me that you love me. Prove it. Prove it. How can one human being do that? How can you prove to another human being you love them? If they believe it, they believe it. If they don't believe it they don' t believe it and there is nothing that can be done in between. You cannot prove those things. You can do things that show love because all of these things are action. Having a good relationship is an action thing But you can't I cannot place myself in front of him and say do you love me because I'm inviting this he says Yes, I love you. I say you don't act like you love Me, you don' look like you loved me. You didn't say that in a loving way Then he said what do I have to say to you to prove that? I love ? I don't know but you didn't the right thing I mean it's it's like living with a raving lunatic you know it's he's damned if he does and he's damn if he doesn't you cannot demand that someone prove to you that you're loved you have to grow in the program of alcoholics anonymous to where you have your own feelings of of self-worth and then you will know because it's like when you have self-birth it's opening a door and people can walk in but if you don't open the door nobody's going to get in nobody can love nobody can prove if your doors are closed And it's opening that door. Well, you know, I think it's really very necessary not to demand anything. You know, we have certain things, and we'll talk about this in a few minutes, but we have certainly things that we do around the house that, you now, Peggy generally cooks the meals, generally cooks meals that are cooked. We have our business at home, and I come upstairs for lunch frequently, and we've been that's been almost five years in five years she fixed my lunch once i don't do once and i remember it i don'T DO BREAKFAST i'm gonna do lunch doesn't do breakfast i do dinner i do four days a week five days well four or five i don' t know what difference does it make And the reason why I say that is I can pour cereal in a bowl. I'm a grown man. I know how to do that. I can make a sandwich. I can warm up a can of chili. I can do that just as well as she can. I can take care of myself. The secret is that I have learned one very simple thing. I can survive without her, thank you very much. I can. I can thrive without her. Thank you very much. I prefer to live with her, but I can survive without her. If she holds tomorrow, you know, I'm not going to be, I don't want to say I'm going to be happy about it, but I'll tell you, it won't be long. It won't be long. No, hey, I accept that. Hey, what am I going to do, mourn? If he were to die, I would be very unhappy about it, but I would also be okay. I'd be okay in the long run because I have you. And I remember one time when he said this to me and I thought this, I mean, I was devastated until I thought about it with my heart. He said, I love you more than any woman in the world, but loving you isn't enough. And I thought, well, let's see who's not enough That was my reaction inside But I knew what he was talking about Because I knew that loving him was not enough That I had to love you This is my life This alcoholism, this recovery from alcoholism Is my life And I would have to get on with my life It's not something we would choose but it's important that we know we could. Let's think about it just simply on a practical basis, just a very simple practical economic basis. Peggy is one person. You're hundreds. What's more important, hundreds or one? Hundreds. It's more importante to love you and pay attention to you than I'd love her and pay intention to her. Although it goes hand in hand. Because if you love, if we, I find that if I love you, I love him better. I don't know how that's strange, but that's true. When I'm willing to love you and go out of my way for you, I am, my relationship with him is enhanced. It's so hard when you're selfish. That selfish, self-centered thing that I hear so many, it's always, what about me? What about my rights? what about me and i always get this little answer in my head yeah well what about you because aa's taught me that it isn't me it's you it's it's your important because somehow my my development as a human being depends upon my willingness to love you that's the way it's been Don't humor your partner. That's denigrating. That's putting them down. You just listen to what they have to say and go on and do your own thing regardless of what they have to saying, and saying, oh, sure, you know, and then just go do your thing like we did when we were drinking. And then you come back and they say, did you do that? And you say, yeah, I did it. Well, didn't you know I didn't want you to do that. Yeah, but I wanted to do it. Why? You acted as if you weren't going to do it and then you did it anyway. You know, why humor me that way? Don't humor me. Don't play with me. Don't pay games with people. People don't like being played with that way. And boy, have we played games. There is not a woman in this room who does not know how to play them and play them real good. Oh! Hey, I'm only speaking from women. I know you guys do too. You're just not quite as subtle. Yeah. I think a good example of that is sex. You know, giving you a little reward because you're a good boy and saying no because you'RE a bad boy. Yeah. You know the most stupid thing about doing that is it's self-denial at the same time. I mean, it's really stupid. It is stupid. What are you laughing at, John? Okay. Each group has but one primary purpose to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers. I think we've pretty much covered that because we've talked about being AA members and Al-Anon members, or not us in particular, but those of you who are Al-Anon members, being AA numbers first. You know, that we have to be AA members first, And that's the message that we carry, that we are recovering through these particular principles. And one of the things that I'm reminded of in this, too, is that, you know, I don't know how you are, but I can always find everything negative. I mean, there's not a negative thing that you do that I can't spot right away, just right off. You know, whether it be squeezing the toothpaste from the bottom, which I consider stupid, or whether doing it logically, which is to just punch it in the middle like I do. First come, first served. I've got an answer to that. You have two tubes of toothpaste. She has hers and I have mine. I squeeze mine from the bottom. He squeezes his from the top. We especially got this commode built in our bathroom that has two separate drawers so we can have our own little toothpaste so we don't ever have to fight about that again. So we fight about his tackle powder or something like that. Every now and then I run out of toothpaste, and I have to use hers, and it's almost, I almost feel dirty about it. Yeah. You know, the thing that you really got to do is to recognize the good things your partner does. To recognize the Good Things Your Partner Does. And tell them. Hey, that was a good meal. Hey, you cleaned up the place. You're wearing a new dress. You're looking nice tonight. it's nice to come home and see you looking nice I shave every day I don't like to shave I don' t like to save any day but I like the way it feels when I have shaved I feel clean I feel dirty when I don''t shave I shave because it makes me feel good not necessarily because of the appearance that it has or doesn''t have But it makes me feel clean, and it also gives a clean appearance to you. And it makes be attractive to you, and so I just simply shave every day. It's no big deal. I shower every day so that I'm not offensive. It's very simple. Sometimes more than once a day. And it's nice to be, you know, just even to give... I call them attaboy. You know, it's an attaboya. It's a little positive stroke, you know, that says, hey, you're my guy. You know, you are okay with me. You are good. I appreciate the things that you are doing. And I forget far too often to do that. I forget. Far too often. I remember one time he came home and we were eating dinner and they got through with it and they had made some comments about it and everything and, you now, like this tastes funny and what does it have? Carrots in it or what? or, you know, something like that. And I said, You know, nobody. I cook dinner every night, and nobody ever says thank you, dear Peggy, for cooking dinner every tonight. So not to be put down, he perked up and he said, You know I've been going to work for 35 years, and nobody never said to me when I came in the door, thank you little Dickie for going to work for 35 years and then he grinned and I knew what he was saying you know I knew I didn't need that just do what you're supposed to do you don't need to have credit for doing what you are supposed to do you don' t need credit for doing what you are supposed to do but it's pleasing to your partner to tell them that you are proud of them for doing what they're supposed to do on such a long and consistent basis. And, you know, I'm proud of my wife because she has consistently been a good wife and consistently been an excellent housekeeper, consistently been a good mother, consistently being a good friend. And I'm really proud of her. I really am. I had something occur to me a number of years ago. Peggy got elected to some office in AA. and this gal came up to me and said well how do you feel about that I said I think it's great she said well aren't you jealous I said no why should I be jealous I'm pleased that you got it Peggy has a Peggy is a good person Peggy Has an ability to do some things that I don't have I'm very pleased for her I'm simply pleased for Her It's nice to be pleased for your mate You know I'm Pleased and I think that she'll serve well well you're not jealous no not jealous at all I got things to do myself that's really simply allows me to do my thing too doesn't it allows me to do what I can do I know it seems like we're only halfway through but we're really not we're on the downhill guys an AA group ought never endorse finance or lend the AA name to any related facility or outside enterprise less problems of money, property, and prestige divert us from our primary purpose. I think there's only really one area in there that I would like to talk about, and that is the money, property,and prestige. I was raised kind of with a silver spoon in my mouth. I had a lot of money. I have a lot attention. I've had a lot care. I'm just a spoiled brat really basically, and this poverty bit was hard for me to take, and we were rather poverty stricken for a while because we had so much so many bad debts to pay off and so many alimony and child support payments to make and that kind of thing so we were kind of poor and we had the greatest time when we were poor we really had the great time because when you have things that money buys then you have to take care of the things and pretty soon it becomes a job to take of the thing the things on you instead of you instead of you owning the things and so it was a lot simpler it's i'm not turning any money down or nothing don't think that but it i got into money property and prestige and dick's family was what i would call uh decadent southern aristocracy not so much that makes sense yeah alcoholic decadence southern aristocracy he has a line that goes about his grandfather great-grandfather own slaves, and they had plantations. And we're not sure how the family line all came about, but well at any rate, he was decadent in Southern aristocracy. And his dad was a — The damn Yankees took all the money. Yeah, me, the damn Yankee's took the money, but anyway, his family had been reduced by alcoholism, my family had not been. And I considered myself to be better than his family. My family seemed to be better than this family and I hate saying that because that to me that that's an ugly part of me but that's the way I felt when I first met him was that I was better than he was and that somehow or another that that I would put up you know I could perhaps raise him to my standards it was yucky it was really yucky And he taught me through his patience and through his really nobility under crisis. We had a child that was born dead after we'd been married, after Jimmy. And Jimmy came up to me one time when he was just a little boy, and he said this was right after this had happened. And he was very small. He didn't understand. And he said, you promised me a baby brother for Christmas. and dick just looked at me and his he put his arm out and he put it around me and he just said well it just didn't work out that way and i'll never forget that i'll ever forget it he showed me nobility and i could recognize it it's not that he that that i you know i think a lot of it is in the recognition in being able to recognize what those things are and the people that are around us that we can say, attaboy, thank you. And those two words are so important. Please remember to say thank you because the closer you come into a relationship with people, the more necessary does politeness become because the more you know them, the moreyou know about them, and you've got to accept them for what they are. So politeness and thank you, And, you know, if I don't say thank you for some of the things that happen during the day to my God, then I feel spiritually bereft. If I don'T say thank YOU to him for some OF the things THAT he does THAT I KNOW he goes out of his way to do, then I am socially bereft, if you will. So what you have to learn to do and what we all have to learning to do and recommit ourselves on a daily basis is to do what's in front of you to do. to do those things that you've committed yourself to do. If you've permitted yourself to be a married partner, then be a marriage partner and work in partnership and work harmony with the other person. Assist and help them be a part of their life and let them be part of your life. Share your life with them and encourage them to share their life with you. And don't ever feel that because someone in your family has accomplished something or is something or isn't something or whatever it is, don't ever feel that that affects you. You know, what Peggy is doesn't affect me. It doesn't make me less of a man or more of a woman. It doesn'T affect me what I do makes me what I am not what she does. We are not reflections of each other. We are simply not reflection if he Dick is very outspoken and sometimes Jim McKernan knows this Jim McKernon and I And Terry Langer, we used to sit on the edge of our chairs whenever he'd say something because we knew he was going to insult somebody. He seemed to take a pride in it, you know, and we were just mortified because we were feeling as though we were reflections of him. You know, somehow that was goingto come off on him. And I learned a long time ago that that isn't healthy and that I have to separate myself from that because I am myself. There's a fellow that calls the house every now and then, and out of politeness he talks to me, but he talks to me like I'm Mr. Peggy. Yeah. I mean, he really does. And I was, he called several days ago, and I was telling Peggy, I said, you know, I always get the feeling every time I talk to this guy that he kind of talks tome like I am Mr.Peggy or something. And she said, yes. She said, I think so, but he thinks of me as being innocuous. he thinks of me as being innocuous non-hostile and he thinks of me as being hostile so he tries to stay away from you so he stays away from me and he would rather talk to her innocuous wadding over here and I said are you innocuous wadting she said no but he thinks so yeah you know better one of the things my pigeons always get tired of hearing me say is take care of your side of the street god they get sick me saying that you know because the other side of the street for people i mean taking care of his side street looks so tempting you know he uses talcum powder and i got so thrilled the other day because i found his favorite kind of talc and powder and they hardly make it anymore it's menon's so if you ever find any buy me about god come on minutes square bottle green printing very seldom can i found it but anyway the thing that irritates me that's great i loved it i brought home bought the only thing they had in the store brought home look at here i got oh my favorite talcum powder so i was thrilled but he throws it all over the bathroom i mean he just like this you know and when you walk out of the bathroom it leaves little feet you know across that carpet there yeah but let me tell you something it's hard though when i take my t-shirt at night it just smells so good it's worth it like a little baby But, you know, it's hard to take care of your side of the street when you've got to walk after him and smudge out these footprints on the carpet. You know, you're always doing that kind of thing. I've never heard her say that when we're in bed, well, why don't you get up and take a shower? You smell bad. No, he never has. He always smells like men and talcum powder. He ain't all dumb. Yep. So, you Know, they get tired of me saying, take care or you're going to die. your side of the street but god it's important you know it's important to take keep your side the street clean because i mean it's it's fundamental on somebody else's side of street because it's not personal you know you're over there messing with their stuff but if you're on your side then you got to clean up your side and that's hard to do and they don't you know they get tired of me saying it but it's very true and it's good for the relationship too i'll tell you okay alcoholics anonymous should remain forever non-professional but our service centers may employ special workers. One thing I did want to say, this is so true, and I heard it just recently. I almost freaked when I heard it because, I mean, you know, you think you've heard everything and then you hear something in a different way. It talks about being emotionally self-supporting and how you need to be emotionally self supporting, how you stand on your own two feet emotionally as well as other ways. You know, I always knew how i could help other people i always knew to help you know that was i i couldn't fix myself but i i wanted to fix you i'm very alan on in that way and this lady said and it's mary pearl and she said this and it just blew my head off practically she said uh if we insist on doing things for people that they can do for themselves we ensure their failure to ever be able to do them God, it just hit me like a ton of bricks because I'd been doing that all my life. I didn't think they could even get up out of bed right, you know, without... You know, I used to make lunches for them and then I'd get resentful because I made lunches. I did do lunch too. I forgot about that. I did lunch when school was... When they weren't big enough to butter their own. I did much then and I used to get mad at them for eating. I didn' t want to make launch so I'd get resent full about eating. that's not self-support self-support has to do with being a man yeah or being a woman be what you are don't be diminished by whatever you feel when i'm feeling bad about something i don't want peggy to come over to me and say oh you poor boy because that just makes me want to kill it gives me a license to kill at that point And when I'm feeling bad, she'll say, what's the matter? I say, well, I'm not feeling too good about this. She'll say oh and she goes away and leaves me alone because my healing is not going to come from someone that I'm emotionally involved with. My healing is going to come from my sponsor, God as I understand it. That's where my healing has got to be. It's going to become because I take some action, not because someone takes some action on my behalf i have got to be a man and as my sponsor so lovingly says if you can't be a man act like a man god i hate to hear that jesus if you can't be a woman you gotta act like a woman you know if you don't know what a woman acts like ask a woman because there's plenty of them around You don't cling, you don't depend upon the other person to be emotionally, to make you whole. You can't. They're going to fail. They're gonna fail. It's like demanding love. You just, it doesn't fit. You know, our lumps don't fit your holes or whatever. I mean, that sounds kind of sexual, but I don't mean it that way. I mean emotionally. It just, we can't heal one another in that sense. Okay. We need to go outside for that. Peg read the, I just wanted to fill in there because we kind of skipped over the seventh step, which is, I mean, the seventh tradition, which is really being self-supporting, doing your thing and doing it well and doing het proudly and being proud of what you are and being self supporting. And earning a buck or two yourself so that you feel like you're making a contribution if that's appropriate. it. But when we're talking about non-professionalism, which is the eighth tradition, you know, I am not a professional father. I am NOT a professional husband. I AM NOT a professional fixer. I can't do plaster walls and that sort of thing. I don't know how to do it. I'm not a professional. You can't plumb. Plumbing is beneath my capabilities. Capabilities is right. He can't even get under the sink hardly. But I'm no professional. He feels plastered. I'm a professional, so what does this say? What does it say? Our service centers may employ special workers, so you get an automobile mechanic for the automobile. You get a wall plasterer for the wall. You know, you don't try to do something that you can't do. I don't pretend to be able to do all things, and I can't. I can not pretend to the best father in the world, nor can I pretend to be the best husband in the world. But I can be the father that I can be, and I can be the husband that I can be to the best of my ability. I can do it to the best of my ability. And it doesn't make me any less because it doesn't measure up to her standards, whatever her ideals. Well, you each have to have your own standards based on the principles of Alcoholics Anonymous. That's basically what it comes down to. Nine says, as such, AA ought never be organized, but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve. I think the easiest way to put that is there are some things that people fight over they have no reason to fight over. It's like the checkbook. find out who's better at having the checkbook if you don't if you don't both have a checkbook then let the person do the check book who's got the interest to do it and who's got the expertise to do it because i'm one of those kind of dick is the sort of thing person he just says well if it sort of lumps out at the end of the month okay he doesn't even care how much is in there he says they'll let me know if there's not enough I mean, I got to know right at the end of the little piece. I'll just move some rocks from this place to that place. It's no big deal. He puts it here and there and everywhere. But, okay, that's a checkbook. I do checkbooks good. I don't do investments good. He does investments good He does real good with that because he's playing in the abstract and he's paying with big numbers and he is not playing with $7.65 which I am playing with. I'm better at minutiae. He is better at grandiose things. I wonder why. Okay. So a family organization really has to be pliable, though, doesn't it? If we're talking about investments, I want Peggy to know what the investments are and how to handle it and so on and so forth if I'm not there, okay? I know how to balance a checkbook. I really do. But she also knows where my will is, and I know where her will is. And I know Where the Key to the Safety Deposit Box Is. I know how to pay the bills I know what the process is I know all of those things and she knows all of those things so in her absence I can do them or in my absence you can do em I'm going to live forever so I better learn em well maybe for another day but it's important that the partners everybody know what's going on communicate for God's sake about those sorts of things about finances and about charging. When we were first married, we didn't have much money and we made a deal. You don't buy anything costing over a certain amount without conferring with your partner first. Period. No matter if it's on sale at that instant and it's never going to be on sale again. Ever. No blue light specials at Kmart. None of that. You have to confer with your partner because otherwise you'll overspend And then there won't be enough for us, and there has to be enough for us. One of the things is, you know, we hear this in NAA and couples all the time My car, my bank account, my checkbook, my this, my that It's not if you marry somebody, if you're with somebody, it's our checkbook Our bank account. Our car. Our house. Our kids It's our. If you talk that way, maybe you'll start to feel that way Because if you talk my, my, mine, mine my that's a separation from this is our this is our deal it's our deal okay we want to look we got two more things to do and then we're done we got carried away in the beginning and we always do this and we know you've been very patient but there are some areas under 10 which Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues and public controversy that sort of thing basically there i want to say this one thing you know when you get into the heat of battle and all of you who have been married or have a relationship have been in the heat of battle when in doubt shut up i have a sign on my wall because i'll tell you something there's some things that i know how to say that hurt so bad, and they can never be taken back. They might be forgiven, but they can never be forgotten, and that's hard. And if I can prevent them from being said by zipping my lip, I'm really better off. Because you know, when I say things in the heat of an argument, generally speaking, I say them for one purpose, to get even. I say him to get ahead. Yeah. Okay. What is the time? Yeah, we're almost out. Okay. You know, when you met her or him, whichever the case may be, it happened in a very strange sort of a way. It's not strange. It's just the way it happened. And what happens is it became a physical relationship first. And I don't mean sex when I say physical relationship Because I can go to an AA meeting or anywhere, and I can see a man that I like and a man that I admire, and hear them speak, see what they look like, see how they're dressed, see what their—pay attention. I'm paying attention! And hear their voice and like what they say, like the tone of their voice, and I become attracted to them. And that's a physical attraction. It's a fiscal attraction. And if I really like them physically in that respect, then I'll go up and I'll shake their hand and I will introduce myself and perhaps we will sit down and we will have a cup of coffee. And we will talk about things and we'll have lunch next week and we can go to meetings together or whatever it happens to be. And that then is a mental relationship. And if we do this on an ongoing basis, we become friends. And that's a spiritual relationship. Every relationship between human beings is the same way. It starts out physical, mental, and spiritual. Now, if you think for a moment that if you're having a little bit of trouble in your marriage or your relationship with somebody, that you're going to heal it by talking about it, you're wrong. You heal it by being an attractive human being, a physically attractive human being and acting like it and touching and shaking hands making them aware of the fact that you care physically. If you do that and if you reassure them in a physical sense the first thing you know is they'll start talking to you, and you develop a mental or intellectual relationship. And as you do that, you'll talk out your differences, and gradually you will redevelop a spiritual relationship where you like each other. But you've got to start out with the physical. It's just like the first three steps. It is the first три steps, which are certainly physical, mental, and spiritual. mental emotional whatever you want to call it and that can be true in courtship it can be true in any relationship that you have that you had those three elements you can be friends we don't compete we don't complete who's smartest who's dumbest sometimes who's maddest who's rightest you know it's what difference does it make in the long run what difference does something and feels good about herself it makes it much more pleasant for me to be around her because she's a much more pleasant person to be around I want her to be successful I really do because it makes her happy and if she's happy it sure makes it easy for me to be around i want for her i really do i really care and i care for her to be successful at whatever she does because it pleases her and if it pleaces her it pleises me our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press radio and film and i think one of the things that i have assigned people that i that i sponsor to do when especially when they have a resentment toward their husband or something is is not to go and discuss that resentment with him because when that happens a lot of inventory taken goes on and it usually ends up in a brouhaha than ever before but i go through the standard procedure of having them pray for him and so forth but i also like for them to do something for them and not get caught. Do something nice for them. Anything like wiping up talcum powder, for example. You know, just cleaning it up a little bit. You know erasing the footprints as they come out of the door. That kind of thing. He doesn't know I do it but boy it makes me feel good. I've done a goody for dick. You No, it's that kind of thing. And not get caught. What if I walk by her chair and her coffee cup is there and empty? I can pick it up and take it in the kitchen. Take it and get me a cup of coffee or take my empty cup in there. And put it in a dishwasher. What if she gets in a rush and puts some things on the dish counter and has to run out? And I go in there, I can put them in the dishwasher. It's kindness and consideration. It's no big deal. It doesn't diminish me as a human being to put things in a dishwasher or to run the dishwasher or to take the dishes out and put them on the shelf, except I don't really know where they go. Yes, you do, too. He's just kidding. He does it all the time. But, you know, we don't have to figure out in anonymity. We don't Have to figure Out whose turn it is to do a good deed. You know, have you ever played that game? Oh, I did this for you, so you've got to do this for me. I did this. I sacrificed for you. Well, you've got to sacrifice. Where's my sacrifice? Come on, give me my bread. What is partnership? You know, people get together in a partnership because of and by themselves they are one. They're one thing. They have a partner so that they can be in joy with another person. That relationship. In joy with other people. With another person, and so in order to have joy in the relationship, you have to give. You have to give of yourself. And it's no big deal. It's really very simple. The last one really talks about being selfless. It talks about self-sacrifice in a sort of a different way. It is not having to have my rights always. That doesn't mean that I don't stand tall in the relationship. It just means that I do not always have to have them. I have to take my way, and thank God, because it's like Dick has said many times. If he ever really ran an AA meeting the way he wanted to run it, nobody else would come. Yeah, but I'd be there every week. He'd be here every week, but nobody else could be there. And so basically the spiritual foundation of a really attractive relationship is to think of others, to be considerate of others to give each other a break for God's sake, Give yourselves a break and lighten up. Thanks a lot, guys, for listening and all the rest of you.