I Timed My AA Meetings Around Court Drug Tests — Four Days Sober Was Enough to Pass – Amanda

Welcome back, my friends, to AA Recovery Interviews.
I'm your host, Howard Al, and I'm an alcoholic, sober since January 1st, 1988, one day at a time.
I'm grateful you've joined us.
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Today is an encore episode of my interview with Amanda.
Amanda B. from September 2021.
Amanda got sober in February 2018.
For today's interview, I'm pleased to welcome Amanda B. to the show.
Like many of my other guests, Amanda's first experience with alcohol was in early adolescence.
Half a bottle of Crown Royal left her sick and passed out on the bathroom floor in a pool of vomit.
Yet, she could not wait to do it again with any liquor but Crown Royal.
From there, she rapidly progressed in her drinking
and drug use.
By 15, she had escaped her childhood home and went to live with a drug-dealing boyfriend.
When that didn't work out, she moved in with her grandparents.
But drugs and alcohol barged back into Amanda's life,
and she soon found herself on a downward trend into heavy drinking.
She went to work in a bar, which allowed her to drink more,
with little consequences, save the occasional firing.
She somehow managed to live on her own in an apartment across the street from the bar
to cut down the risk of DWI.
But the darkness of the disease descended into her life,
and by her late 20s, she had lost about everything and had to live with her sister,
the first person to ever call her an alcoholic.
A DWI led her into the legal system, replete with court-ordered IOP treatment and twice-weekly AA meetings.
It was in Alcoholics Anonymous that Amanda finally faced her alcoholism and drug addiction,
though she didn't get sober immediately.
But that bellyful of booze and headful of AA was sufficient
to trigger her to drink alcohol again.
But that bellyful of booze and headful of AA was sufficient to trigger her to drink alcohol again.
But that bellyful of booze and headful of AA was sufficient to trigger her to drink alcohol again.
But that bellyful of booze and headful of AA was sufficient to trigger her to drink alcohol again.
She had a sudden spiritual experience of the kind Bill W. talks about in the big book.
That was 3 ½ years ago, when Amanda went all-in the program of AA.
She got a sponsor, worked all 12 steps multiple times,
attended regular meetings, engaged in service work, and sponsored other women.
Today she lives a full and rich life from the center of the program,
and can be seen after meetings arranging for informal get-togethers at local restaurants and other fellowship.
And can be seen after meetings arranging for informal get-togethers at local restaurants and other fellowship.
her since the earliest days of her sobriety, and I'm grateful to have had a front row seat
watching this fellow alcoholic really get what AA is all about. Amanda's story at Three Years
Sober will inspire those with less time to stay regularly engaged in AA. For those with more time,
her stories may make you reminisce of early years in sobriety. So, for newcomers, old-timers,
and everyone in between, settle back for a comfortable listen to the 46th interview in
this podcast series with my good friend and AA sister, Amanda Bee. Hi, I'm Amanda. I'm a
recovered alcoholic. Hi, Amanda. Thanks for being here today. You and I have known each other
probably for the last four or five years now, haven't we? Yes, it's actually less than four
or five years. I think I met you when I was about nine months sober, and I had the courage to walk
into a church meeting for the first time. Oh, that was your first church meeting ever?
It was one of them. Wow. So, what's your
My sobriety date is February 18th, 2018. So, I'm over the three and a half year
hump, which is so crazy to say out loud. That's amazing. Well, I remember when you
came into that meeting, you were a regular there for quite a while, and then I started seeing you
at our Saturday evening meeting, which not only did you become a regular, but you were also kind
of the social person afterwards, always asking people where they wanted to fellowship and go
to dinner. And I thought that that was so great.
Because on a Saturday evening at seven o'clock, after an AA meeting is over, what do you do? And
you always had people going out to restaurants and other things to fellowship. I think that's
really marvelous. What gave you that idea? Well, you know, when I got sober, I left behind all of
my party friends. And that first year, I was still so anxious and nervous. And I never went
to any fellowship opportunities because I didn't know anybody. But in that Saturday night,
meeting, it was on Saturday night at seven o'clock. And it made me depressed to go home and do
nothing after that. So I'm like, you know what, this is a small enough meeting, I felt really
comfortable there. I just love that meeting so much. And I felt like, why not invite this group
of awesome people to go out and enjoy each other's company and have some yummy food. And so we would
all Barbara and I would argue about which restaurant to go to.
And I'd usually get my way. So that worked out. But it was really fun. And, you know, still still
making friendships that just over a year sober, like I needed that I still need that that
fellowship. The book talks about that we crave that fellowship. Yeah, we really do. And you not
only created a real fellowship for people after the meeting to hang out, but whenever this COVID
thing got started, you were ready to go with the zoom for our group.
And the zoom that you helped coordinate got going much sooner than a lot of other zoom groups did. And
we were within just a couple of weeks, we were already meeting on zoom, our small group. So your
service work being the zoom host, and making sure that everything went smoothly, I think was
terrific service work. Where did you learn how to do that service work?
Thanks, it was a great opportunity to be of service. And my higher power positioned me
perfectly with a zoom account through my job who let me use it for,
I worked at a treatment center. So they said, if you have any meetings that you want to use it for,
I'm like, I do. So I was able to step right in to be of service. But to answer your question,
my first sponsor in the program, really drove home the service work. And it wasn't just program
service work. It was other service work, too. So she invited me early on, I was maybe three or
four months sober. And she invited me to go to this barbecue that they have for homeless people.
And I was like, Well, I need to get out of the house. I'm just gonna go because that's really not
it wasn't up my alley at that point. And I went and I just had the best time. And I mean, I was
just talking to people getting them to play cornhole and just having a good time. And after
that was over, she said, Wasn't that fun? I said, Yeah, I just felt so genuine. And so that really
stuck in my mind. And then
she drove home like any opportunity you see to be of service, take it. And so also,
I was struggling with anxiety really bad at first. And I figured out if I'm in a small group of
people, like, I started going to church, and I would go to these small groups. And I was so
nervous. I was like sweating and shaking when they would call on me to say something.
And I figured out that if I could find a way to be of service, that took the pressure,
off. And so I started serving cakes, serving drinks, arranging chairs,
anything to get the focus off of me. And that has stuck with me. And now I find so much joy
in being of service, just in every situation that I'm in. So that's a part of the that what I learned
in the program that's translated into all areas of my life. Yeah, I'm so glad to hear you say that,
too. Because there have been some people who I've interviewed over this this podcast series who have
spoken about the importance of service. And I think that's really important. And I think that's
of service work to help them maintain their level of spiritual connectedness, connection to other
people, and certainly keep them in the center of the program. And whether it's helping people
fellowship after a meeting, or setting up chairs or serving cake, or being the facilitator of a
zoom meeting, I can see how that could be very, very helpful to your sobriety. What do you think
sobriety would have been like without that? Without service work, I think sobriety would have,
been, I mean, filled with more anxiety. When I'm in service, or being of service, I'm outside of
myself, I'm not thinking about myself, I'm thinking about other people. And when I'm not
being of service, I'm thinking about me. And I'm thinking about everyone that's thinking about me.
And it, it just increases anxiety and unhappiness. And so really finding those opportunities to be
of service just helps get me
out of myself.
That's so important, especially since the disease of alcoholism is a disease of self-centeredness
and selfishness. And being of service is selfless. It's helpful. It's really a blessing to any group
to have somebody working the service end of things. Have you always been that kind of person
during your life? Were you always the one who was helping out? Or was your alcoholism keeping you
from that kind of behavior?
So I grew up in a big,
ish family. I have three siblings that we were raised in the same house. And so I, I'm the second
oldest. And so I was always a helper in my family of origin. But as I got older, that went by the
wayside. It was not a conscious skill that I had. So the program really made me conscious of the
benefits of service work.
So you've mentioned a little bit about your family of origin.
Mm-hmm.
What was your home life like in your family of origin? And in what ways might that have kind of
put you on the path that you went on with alcoholism and drug abuse?
Yeah. So my very early years were really tumultuous. My parents got divorced when I was
six months old. Mom got remarried when I was two years old. And thank God, my first stepdad was,
he was a really good man.
And he, he worked hard and provided what he could for our family. But where the,
the alcohol piece comes in, he was not a big drinker, but my, my grandfather is a big drinker.
And that whole side of the family, every family event revolved around alcohol. And so like at
our Christmases, we were the family that takes tequila shots. And, you know, my mom
looked at me sideways when I didn't take a drink on my 18th birthday. I can't tell you why I didn't.
And I think it was during the day and I didn't want to get tired for the afternoon because I had
a party that night or something. I don't know. But so there's that aspect that, that drinking
is a way of life. I couldn't even imagine a life without alcohol in it. And I have one memory of
my first, one of my first drinks. I know I had my first drink very early on because there's a
picture of me at like probably three years old drinking the last of a beer can. Yeah. And,
and you know, it was fun.
At the time, but now down the road, you look back and you're like, Oh, maybe that was not a good
idea. Um, and then at seven years old, um, my dad had made some margaritas and I remember he gave
me and my sister one, and I guess I was acting goofy and I asked him for more and he goes,
you're already drunk. Ha ha ha. And I'm like, looking back, like I was, and I wanted more.
Um, and then I have another memory of when I was, uh, 13,
a little girlfriend that I had, we got a bottle of liquor and my parents challenged us to try to
finish the bottle in one night. And so we did. And I woke up in a pool of vomit and I could never
drink that specific liquor again. But from the very first drink, I've always had that. I want
more. That is an incredible story that you're,
your parents, uh, challenged you and your friend to drink. What do you think was behind that
challenge? What, what were they, what was it just that it was funny or cute or did you have any
idea why? So it was actually a crown Royal, which still makes my stomach turn when I say it.
Um, and you know, I couldn't tell you why I'm sure I had a little teenage attitude and I was like,
I can drink or I don't know what exactly happened. Um, but again,
drinking was a way of life. And so they probably, they probably thought, Oh, they're here at the
house. We're here. They'll be fine. And we were fine, except that I woke up in a pool of vomit
and I can never drink that liquor again. Now, did that experience with waking up that way,
did you black out or do you remember the night before? Do you remember much of what happened?
Yeah, I remember, um, a lot of what happened. I don't know how I ended up,
um, in the, in the bathroom. I was in the bathroom when I woke up and then, um, I couldn't
move for a little while. And I guess I was making some noises cause my mom came and found me.
What did you tell yourself after that experience? Uh, obviously you said you wanted more,
but after that experience, did you tell yourself you still wanted more?
Yes.
Something different than crown Royal?
Yes.
Yes.
So that was at 13. Would you say that that was really the beginning
of your,
your drinking by choice? Did you actually start at 13 or, or does it skip ahead a few years until
you started drinking on your own?
Yeah, I guess. I mean, my, my story has outside substances in it. Um, so there was a period of
that only because of my age. Um, if I would have been able to purchase my own alcohol, I would
have. So until I found the right people and a fake ID, um, I was, I used other, uh, substances.
But, um, probably when I turned 17, I could easily get access to alcohol. Um, and it really took off
then.
Yeah. So was your use of alcohol kind of an extension of the use of the drugs or did you
continue the drugs with the alcohol or did one hand off to the next?
Uh, so I consider alcohol my primary substance of choice because I,
like the way it makes me feel and, um, and it's easily accessible and it can be
fun or dressed up. Um, whereas the other substances are secondary because
I wouldn't take other substances out of fear of what's in them. Um, unless I was drinking first.
So the alcohol use did in a way fuel additional use of drugs, but not necessarily the other way
around, huh?
Right.
Did you have any consequences from your drinking early on? Were you running with a group that was
drinking? What was your experience like with that?
Yeah. Consequences. Um, some major ones I had, I lost a scholarship, um, to college. Um, I started
as pre-med at U of H and, um, I discovered clubs and decided to use a fake ID. I was only, um,
16 when I started college, but at 17, I was a, I was a, I was a, I was a, I was a, I was a, I was a,
I started going out to clubs and drinking. And the next morning I'd be like, I just, I'm not going
to class. And so, you know, week after week, what does that equate to? Um, I missed assignments. I
missed classes. My grades plummeted. I lost my scholarship. So that was one major one.
So you were in college at 16. You must've been really, really, uh, ahead of the game and pretty
smart to be able to do that.
So I don't consider myself smart. I consider myself smart. I consider myself smart. I consider
myself a hard worker because I didn't skip any grades. I just worked really hard in summer
school and classes by correspondence through Texas tech and UT. And then I was able to graduate early.
So I just applied myself and focused, um, so that I could get on to college. Really. I just wanted
to get out of my, uh, parents' house and go, you know, be an adult and do whatever I wanted.
I wanted my freedom.
What were things like at home that made you want to get out of there at that point? You've talked
about when you were 13, what was it like before you actually got out of the house?
So when I was 12, my mom divorced my first stepdad and, um, we moved in with her new boyfriend and
the new boyfriend was great. Before we moved in with him, he would buy us groceries and take us
to do fun things. And then we moved in with him and he flipped. So, um, he became, uh, abusive,
verbally abusive to me, physically abusive.
To my mom and my sister. And so I had to get out of there. In fact, I told my mom, uh, when I was
15, I was still in high school. I told my mom, um, that either she was going to let me leave and go,
uh, move in with my drug dealer boyfriend, or I was going to leave anyways and not talk to her
anymore. And so she let me leave, which that's a tough situation for a 15 year old to be in.
Do I stay in this abusive household? Um,
I would go live with my drug dealer boyfriend who can provide what I need and I'll have a little more
peace and not get abused by him. And he'll supply all my drugs.
What a choice that was for you. You went to live with him and he helped support your drug usage.
Would you call it a drug habit at that point?
I would, uh, because it was on the weekends. At that point, I was keeping it at the weekends.
During the week, I would focus on school to finish out
my high school. And so during the week I was really focused. I had a little job at Chick-fil-A,
my first job ever. They teach very good manners at, at Chick-fil-A, by the way.
They do. And they'll fire you in a heartbeat if they find out you're on drugs.
Yes. Yes. I don't remember doing a drug test for them, you know, but that was ages ago. So
that was a long time. I don't really remember doing a drug test if I did or not. Um, but yeah,
I would keep my, uh, drug usage to the weekends.
Mm-hmm.
And that was when I started incorporating more alcohol because this boyfriend was older. He was
21. And so I could get him to get alcohol for us.
I see. So by the time you started living with him and he not only provided the drugs,
but the alcohol, would you say you were becoming a functional alcoholic or
were things falling apart more quickly than that?
Well, things were falling apart pretty quickly. I mean, I look back and I, I'm amazed that I made
it.
Um, you know, I finished high school early and started college with a scholarship.
That's incredible given the circumstances. Um, but once I got to college and had my freedom,
it went downhill really quickly.
Hmm. Did you continue to live with him while you were going to college?
I did for the first semester. And then I started hanging out with a girlfriend of mine and I
started staying at her place more and then just things weren't good with him. So I, when I turned
18, I got a job at a bar and it was awesome. I could drink all day long. And that's when I
officially dropped out of school and just decided to work there instead and got my own apartment
and thought I was all grown up. I'm curious about that job because I've had a number of people
on the show who have followed somewhat of the same trajectory where things seem to be going
pretty well, but then they just made the conscious decision that they'd rather be in a
position where they could drink all the time and not have to worry about class or any other
considerations. When you were working in that bar, what were your ambitions? Did you want to
go back to school or what were you thinking when you were in that bar? I was trying to manage. I
was trying to go to, at first, trying to go to school and work at the bar. And then I would wake
up so hungover and be like, I'm just going to work at the bar.
Mm hmm. Were you making pretty good money at the time?
Oh, yeah. I was making really good money. I mean, especially for being that young. I mean,
my mom never made a whole lot of money. Neither did my dad. So seeing that kind of money coming
in was definitely an influence on my decision. Did you experience any problems or difficulties
while you were working at the bar related to alcohol and drugs?
Oh, yeah. I got fired a couple of times.
For being for drinking. I was underage. So I would drink. And there were a couple of times
that they fired me and then they let me come back. So that that was probably the biggest
consequences I had at that point in time. I really flew under the radar. I lived right
across the street from the bar. So that made, you know, driving under the influence minimally
risky. It was one block away. Wow. So you had the opportunity without even
having to go to school. Yeah.
Having to get in a car of drinking with impunity, as they say in the big book.
Do you recall any feelings that your drinking was getting out of control and that you might
have to do something about it? Or were you just sailing along doing what you wanted to do?
So I remember a specific conversation I had when I was 22 years old.
I was at this point living with my grandparents, trying to go back. I was back in school,
and I went out like two nights in a row. And I remember drinking vodka out of a plastic bottle.
And I think I had filled up my plastic bottle with my grandparents vodka because I was 22 and
a student and I wasn't working at the bar anymore and didn't have money to to afford drinks. So
I just remember drinking it the whole night I was out the second for the second night.
And then when I got home, I,
kept drinking straight vodka out of this plastic bottle until I passed out and the next morning
I had a little job at a boutique and the next morning I had to call in and when I went downstairs
I had this conversation with my grandma and she's like why are you not at work and I'm like I'm
really hung over and she's like I hope you didn't tell them that I was like I did and she's like
Amanda I was like I know I really think I have a problem and she goes I think so too
and that was that that was the end of the conversation there was no hey I've heard of
this program called AA or anything like that which she had remind you her husband is an alcoholic
so she's an Al-Anon but she doesn't know it she still doesn't know it right I get it so there
was no solution there and you know as an alcoholic left to our own
devices we're not going to make it so you went from being at the bar to living at your
grandparents to go back to school was that a conscious decision you made or something that
came after you were fired for the last time and needed to do something else well I met a boy and
and he he happened to be a really good good person and he influenced me to get an education
and in
, he influenced me to move back in with my grandparents as you know this is a way to set
yourself up for success in the future and I know it's not ideal but you should go stay with your
grandparents it's really close to school it's you don't have to pay rent they actually gave me money
for groceries every week too so that helped yeah so they were really trying to help me get out of
this rut that I was in and and I was encouraged by this guy I met to get out of the bar scene and
and get back into
school and try to make something with my life
so what were the school years like while you were living with your grandparents
I didn't live with my grandparents for too long I broke up with the guy and I went back to the bar
but this time I was managing school and drinking I had just dropped the the drugs out of my life
but the constant here is alcohol so I kept drinking
but somehow managed to make it through college yeah so I graduated I studied international business
and I graduated when I was 24 so I like to think that's not that far behind well given what you
were going through you started at 16 and ended at 24 that's well that's about an eight-year education
but so you're at 24 you've graduated you've essentially
replaced the drugs with alcohol and sounds to me like you were a pretty functional alcoholic if you
could complete your studies and get and get a degree yeah yeah um I guess so it's hard to believe
that because that's not what it looked like at the end of my drinking career um I was barely
functioning but that's the progression of the disease so what happens to your life after you
graduate you're 24 years old that kind of led you down that road and you're like oh my god I'm gonna
have to go through that road towards alcoholism to the extent that you needed to go to AA yeah so
after college um I did an internship in Argentina for several months and I had this little apartment
there in this really cool hipster neighborhood and there were bars all around me and I was in
heaven I can go to these cool little bars and drink to my heart's content um I didn't do a whole
lot of my internship while I was there and I was like oh my god I'm gonna have to go to this
you can imagine I just went out and drank and then slept in the next day and ate all the delicious
food that they make in Argentina and then I came back because both of my sisters were pregnant and
having babies um with within a few months of each other so I came back and it was hard to find a job
fresh out of college and you know having a bar a bar on my resume which I conveniently left off of
my resume and so I was like oh my god I'm gonna have to go to this and I'm gonna have to go to this
so while I was in college I also did modeling and trade show work and so I started picking up
customers for marketing materials and cold calling kind of sales work that they didn't
want to hire someone for but I would pick up these these little projects so I did that for
a while which was great because then I could drink however late I wanted and then sleep in
and then do my work.
So I got to make my own schedule so I you know I I wouldn't have made it at a full-time job
had I had one.
So you got to schedule your drinking around the job or uh only drink after hours or did you ever
drink while you were on the job?
Uh yeah sometimes with clients I'd go meet them out for happy hour um and I always knew it wasn't
just a happy hour like if I'm going to happy hour I'm gonna be out all night and it never failed it
never failed.
If I went to happy I might you know leave the the clients I was with but go with other friends out
somewhere else and then the next day pay for it and then I'd be behind in in my planned work um
but I was able to keep that up for a good while um because I had that flexibility.
So you were kind of putting together your own schedule working when you wanted did did you
have that kind of uh flexibility?
Yeah yeah and and I would schedule meetings in the afternoons on purpose because I knew I would
be hung over in the morning and not able to get up and do the meeting.
When did you notice or did you notice alcohol and your drinking taking a toll on your life
either physically or emotionally or spiritually?
So I hadn't noticed it yet but I had a neighbor when I was 27.
I had this neighbor who had this beautiful dog and I have dogs and so I met him out walking dogs in
our little apartment dog park.
And he would talk to me about um this fellowship that he was a part of and this guy was always
happy and smiling and glowing and I'm like why is this guy so happy and so and he was so warm and
kind and um and he would tell me about this fellowship that that he would go to and and
eventually I put two and two together and I figured out it was AA and because he told me he hadn't
drank in four years and I was like.
Four years how is that even possible and so he invited me he invited me probably three maybe three
times um because I would always tell him like oh man I'm so hung over today I have the biggest
headache I would ask him to bring me water or juice or whatever when I couldn't get out of bed
and so he invited me about three times and I remember saying like oh I want to go but
not today maybe another time and I think he gave up after a few times of asking me he was like
she's not ready yet um but I say that was my higher power sending a life raft and I didn't
take it I had to go further down.
So here's a guy who introduces you to AA was it that you just felt like you didn't have a problem
or couldn't relate to what he was doing?
Um at that point.
I knew that my drinking was a little much um which is why I would tell him I want to go
just not today because I did want to go I wanted to check it out and see what it's about I you know
I couldn't I didn't never thought that I would be able to be sober for four years but I was
curious about it and there was just a tiny little seed of openness there it just wasn't ready to
flourish yet.
Did he ever ask you that $64,000 question that we ask people?
Do you feel like you have a drinking problem or do you want to stop drinking?
No he never asked um if I think I have a drinking problem that I remember and I think I would
remember because one time my sister told me a little further down the road from this story at
27 she straight up told me you're an alcoholic and I remember it hurting me it hurt so bad
and I was so ashamed and um
and I don't remember feeling that ever with him he was so kind and like gentle and just invited
me to come along and you know he would come talk to me when I'm hung over I would hide from him in
the parking lot because we had this parking garage and I remember like when I was hung over I would
try to hide from him so he couldn't see me walking to say hi because I was so ashamed I was hung over
again.
When your sister told you that what was behind what she was saying did she cite behavior on your
point?
Part that she determined made you an alcoholic what was your understanding of what she said when
she told you you were an alcoholic what was she seeing?
So my sister is a nurse and she had just finished nursing school and she had been to
one AA meeting so she um she recognized the craving and she recognized that once I
took a drink I was going to drink the whole bottle and also at that time
um this is when I start I was hitting I was hitting my bottom at this point
I actually had moved in with her I was not functioning anymore I went back to work at the bar
just to make ends meet and I ended up getting a DWI one night my first DWI first and only thank god
and so the judge put me in this I violated twice on my pre-trial supervision and at this point I was
on a bunch of different pills and alcohol so before my urinalysis tests I would drink the
stuff that would get rid of the that would cover up the other stuff in the urine test but I didn't
know that it didn't cover up alcohol and so I got caught and so I violated twice on pre-trial
supervision and so when it came time the judge said this was nine months after I got arrested
the judge said hey I really think this girl can benefit from
the DPTI program um which it has you jump through several hoops one is you go to IOP
one is you you go to AA um and I I don't remember the others and so if you jump through all the
hoops successfully and you don't mess up again for two years your case will be dismissed and I was
like yes please I'll take it um so I did that but I had moved back in with my sister um after the
after getting the DWI because my life was just totally unmanageable um I couldn't support myself
anymore and she needed help with her daughter babysittings which actually didn't work out
either because I was always too drunk to babysit so yeah did she trust you with babysitting she did
trust me with babysitting until um I wasn't able to show up like she needed me to and and be
trustworthy like she needed me to be
I see so you're 27 you're living with your sister you've had the DWI you've been ordered to to do
this uh DPTI and did you start to attend AA meetings as part of that yeah so I was actually
29 at this point um which um is important to me because I always told myself that in my 20s I'm
gonna live it up I'm gonna do whatever the heck I want I'm gonna travel the world drink as much as
I want do all the substances I want and if I'm still alive if I'm still alive at 30 I'm gonna
straighten up so I didn't realize how hard it would be to quit all that stuff that sounds like
a real plan Amanda a little bit convoluted but a plan nonetheless yeah um so I'm living with my
sister I'm 29 I'm living with my sister I'm 29 I'm living with my sister I'm 29 I'm living with my
I started going to AA meetings um in November of 2017 I remember part of the the PTI program
required me to go to I think it was two or three meetings a week for six weeks
and so I would do that and after the meeting I felt like I had a choice whether I was gonna
drink or not and so um so I figured out
four days before you have a urinalysis test is when you have to stop drinking so that it doesn't
show in the test so I started I started going to AA meetings four days in a row leading up to my
test so I could pass my test and then I would drink again so it was a scheduled test not a
random yeah and they did random sometimes but luckily I I evaded that somehow I think I got
called once for a random and somehow got out of it so you were able to play the system there for a
while that is not sustainable I'm not recommending that to anyone we'll be right back my friends if
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and we're back earlier you mentioned that you were rapidly approaching
your bottom what did your bottom look like and what do you remember about the days prior to
hitting that bottom well let's see I mean the prior to hitting that bottom um was having to
live with my sister at 29 years old not able to support myself um I had a breathalyzer in my car
which is so embarrassing um you know I didn't have any money even though I was back working at the bar
and making
of money, but it was all going to debts and the courts. And, um, my life was just completely
unmanageable. And then my sister, when she said that about me being an alcoholic and it hurts so
bad. And then when, what she said about the craving that struck a chord, I was like,
I didn't say it out loud at the time because I didn't want her to be right.
So, so, but when she said that about the craving, after you have the first drink,
you have a craving for more. I'm like, that's me. Um, so deep down there was that. And then,
um, starting AA, I don't know, I guess in that, in that six weeks, I heard what I needed to hear.
I remember trying to do it on my own for the next couple of months. I remember the first AA meeting
I went to where I didn't have to get my paper signed and I made sure everybody in the room
knew that.
Uh-huh. Okay. What was that? Six months getting it signed?
No, it was so six weeks of getting it signed, which is not that long. So after that,
I started going to meetings on my own, um, without a requirement because I liked how I felt when I
left the meetings. I liked the, the peace that I got and just like hugs. There were no hugs in my
life. And just having, having people come up to me and hug me and tell me it's going to be okay.
Like I needed that. And then leading up to, I still hadn't quit drinking. I still hadn't asked
for a sponsor. I was trying to do it on my own. I tried to look up the 12 steps, like a workbook
online, and I don't know why I couldn't find it. So I was still trying to do it on my own. But,
um, I remember someone said in a meeting, if you want to get sober, just ask God to get you sober.
And so I started doing that. As soon as I would wake up, I would just sit up and I
didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do.
I didn't know. I didn't have a higher power at this point. I was agnostic. I thought maybe
there's something, I mean, there's probably something, but that's way too big for my little
mind to comprehend. Um, so I just did what they said. I sat up in bed and I prayed to the ceiling
and I was like, God, please give me sober. And I did, I just meant sober off of alcohol. I wasn't
ready to give up the pills yet, but the pills went first. They did. Yeah. A month before,
um, my sobriety date from alcohol, um, I got sober from the pills. I went through withdrawal.
I didn't go to a detox center or anything. Again, don't, don't recommend that to anyone. It was
miserable and painful, but I needed to go through that so that I remember how awful it was.
Were those opioids that you were detoxing? Yes. Wow. That's tough. And you did that on your own.
Yes. That must've been miserable. It was very miserable. Um, and then I was also on Adderall,
um, which,
I have the same sobriety date. The day that I got sober from alcohol, I also got sober from Adderall.
So you did it all at once then, huh? Yeah. That's amazing. What was it like when you went to your
first meetings? You said you felt a lot better leaving than you did going in. And to me, that's a,
that's a sign of a good AA meeting when people feel better walking out than they did when,
when going in. What did you notice about the people? Did, did you, did you make friends?
Were there women that approached you? What was that like?
So at this point, um, I was, I was still not comfortable with women. Uh, I, I didn't trust
them as most women that come into AA are, we just don't trust other women. Um, it takes a while
for that to happen, but I was going to Lambda and all the gay guys were so nice to me and I loved
them and they were great. And, um, I just remember walking into,
you know, the meetings and you know, the glow that, that, that neighbor of mine had all of
these people had that glow. And I'm like, what is this? And they're smiling and laughing. And I'm
like, are they really sober? How can you be so happy? Sober. I didn't, I didn't get it,
but I didn't care. I only cared about what I felt like after I left the meeting, I felt better.
And I had a choice whether I was going to drink or not that night.
Yeah. And as,
you mentioned the Lambda club, I've known a number of women over the years who have,
you know, become regulars at their meetings. You mentioned that it's an issue for women,
other women. What, what were you noticing about the women in AA that became so difficult that,
uh, gave you concern? Um, so I wouldn't say that I had concerns about the women in AA. Um,
everyone was so kind and nice and went way out of their way to help me. It was me
and my, and my, and my, and my, and my, and my, and my, and my, and my, and my, and my, and my,
my trust level of other women had been so, I mean, just destroyed, um, you know, based on these
unhealthy relationships that I I'd had with women, um, you know, throughout my life. And so that was
my stuff that I carried in the rooms. It was not the women in the rooms. Um, and it took me a long
time and I still struggle with that. I still, I still struggle making friends with women in the
program. Um, but it's something that I'm very aware of and working on.
Um, and healing that there's healing that's happening. So it just takes time.
I get that. So tell me about your first sponsor. Did you get a sponsor right away or
how long did it take? It sounds to me like you were trying to work the program yourself for a
period of time. How long did you do that before you finally got yourself a sponsor?
So it was about four months, um, of coming to AA, trying to do it on my own,
promising, begging and pleading God to help me go into a bar and not drink. That didn't work.
Um, I don't know. I just, it was on February 16th of 2018. There was a woman that led this meeting
and I can, I consider her my temporary sponsor because my first real sponsor comes later. But
I asked her on February 16th, I went up to her right after the meeting and I said, Hey,
I need help. Can you sponsor me? And she was like, okay, well tell me what's going on.
I was like, okay, I just need.
Help. I can't do this on my own. And so we met two days later, um, on February 18th and I was
hung over once again, the night before I had gone into the bar and before I went in, I did, I was,
you know, trying to be a good AA and I prayed and asked God to keep me sober. And then I walked into
a bar. Yeah. So I, you know, I didn't, I didn't know that that's a not, not supposed to do that
in early sobriety. Um, and so I was like, okay, well, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm
going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm
going to do it. So I met with this, uh, temporary sponsor on February 18th. I was really hung over
and she was like, okay, you're going to start a 90 and 90 and you're going to order the big book
right now. Did she know you, that you hadn't stopped at that point or did she assume you were
sober? I told her that I drank the night before. Okay. Yeah. All right. And, um, and so I said,
okay, so this 90 and 90, does that start today? And she's like, yep. I'm like, okay. So I go to
Lambda, um, that night and I feel awful. And, um, I'm sitting at, it's a fairly empty meeting.
There's maybe 10, 12 people in there. It was a Sunday night. And so there's all these open
chairs. It's in the big room over there. There's all of these, all these open chairs and this,
of course, glowing. Once again, this glowing, fabulous woman walks in the door and she comes
and sits right next to me. And I'm like, why is she sitting right next to me when they're,
there's a ton of other chairs. And so after this meeting, she stayed after and talked to me and
she was talking about how her vision changed when she was about four months sober. And for whatever
reason, her saying that gave me a lot of hope. And I still can't tell you why, um, it gave me a lot
of hope. Um, but then I, I went home that night and, um, I was just, I was crying. I was
desperate. I was desperate. Cause I really, I had really given this thing a shot on my own.
Um, and I just couldn't stop. And so that night I'm just like crying and remind you, I'm still
agnostic at this point. And I put, I put my hands out in defeat and I'm like, I literally said this
out loud. There has to be something greater than me because I can't do this on my own.
And at that moment,
I had a very intense spiritual experience and my higher power came flooding into my life. I could
feel the presence around me and through me, this like warm, comfortable mess. And I had like a
waterfall of tears and snot come out. And, um, I journaled that night. So I have a journal from
my sobriety date. And in my journal, it says, I know.
Wow. So God drops this woman in your life. And as a result of that experience, you have
the spiritual experience, the kind that Bill Wilson talks about, right?
Yes.
A sudden, a sudden upheaval.
It's page 56 in the big book. That's my favorite page. Cause I was reading it a couple months
later. I was reading it and I was like, Oh, that happened to me.
Yeah.
So yours wasn't one of the gradual of the educational variety.
Yours was a sudden realization of a presence greater than yourself.
Yes. Yes, it was. And so from that moment, I was all in.
And that was what day?
February 18th of 2018.
So that's your sobriety day.
Uh-huh. Yeah. And so I had the temporary sponsor for my first 60 days and I was sitting on step
one because she was very busy. Obviously the program gives us a lot of life. We get to do
a lot of things after we're sober. And so this woman was very busy. She was doing a lot of things.
Mm-hmm.
And so I was sitting on step one and 60 days sober. I had, I was friends with this woman that
sat next to me and told me about vision on my sobriety date. And so on day 60, I was a mess.
And I saw her at a meeting and I told her, I said, if this is what it's like to be sober,
I don't want it. And she said, no, no, no, no, no. Let me sponsor you. Give me a month.
And I said,
Okay.
OK, so I notified the other lady that I was going to take her as my official first sponsor and work the steps with her.
And we got right into the work and I had to get through my fourth step as quick as possible because I wasn't going to make it if I didn't.
So that was 60 days after your sobriety day that she becomes your sponsor?
Yeah, on my 60 day birthday.
Wow. So you had this sudden spiritual experience.
You go back to AA. Were those 60 days, 60 days of struggle for you before you finally got your your permanent sponsor?
Yes. What were those days like?
Oh, man. You know, I slept a lot. I was still withdrawing from the Adderall stays in your system for a long time.
Yeah. I mean, I don't know the half life, but recovering from Adderall, it takes a it takes a long time.
And so my body was totally exhausted.
I had no energy, so I slept a lot. I drank a pot of coffee a day.
I wasn't working at this point.
I was selling some of my fancy stuff that I had bought over the years.
I was selling so that I could pay my bills and I was just staying sober one day at a time.
Were you going to meetings every day?
I was. I was the 90 and 90.
I followed that and it really that that kept.
Kept me sober. But, yeah, I just kind of turned into a I isolated.
I cut myself off from everybody except for AA because I knew I would go out again if I didn't do that.
And so I just fell off the map.
So this is 60 days into your sobriety.
During that period of time, you're feeling isolated.
You're feeling alone.
You're still going to AA.
What was it like having those feelings while you were sitting in the middle of an AA meeting?
It was hard.
But, you know, at that that club that I was going to, they were really accepting and just wanted me to check in with how I was doing that day.
So I didn't know how to share.
I didn't have any program to share at this point other than I'm praying and I'm sober and I'm here.
But I would share also, you know, the anxiety levels and the shaking and the I mean, my.
Shares were definitely not filled with experience, strength and hope at this point.
Yeah, I kind of identify with you in a way.
I know you've heard my story before, but I didn't get a sponsor until I was sober about 10 months, almost a year.
I was sitting in meetings seeing people really getting it around me and people that they seem like their lives were improving while I was still feeling isolated alone because I was trying to do the program my way without a sponsor and without any help.
Or acknowledgement that I couldn't do it myself, you know, but, you know, I remember what a what an empty feeling that was sitting in meetings, knowing that I wasn't getting what everybody else was getting.
And it made me feel like maybe I'll be the first guy to prove that AA doesn't work, you know, or maybe I'll be just one of those lost causes along the way.
Did you ever get that feeling when you were sitting in the meetings or were you a little bit more hopeful than that?
I think I was a little more hopeful because remember.
That goal that I had, if I made it to 30, I would straighten up.
Yeah.
So I turned 30 years old at 56 days sober.
And so I had this drive that I'm not giving up.
Like if all if it worked for all these people, it's going to work for me, too.
Yeah.
And so I just held out hope and I was praying at the time.
So I think that helped me a lot.
Also, at 11 days sober, I met this woman and she talked about the third step prayer.
And so while I was not on the third step yet, I had that prayer memorized and I was saying it every day.
And that carried me.
Wow.
So you were going to meetings.
You weren't drinking, which are the first two requirements that I think everything else is built off of.
You had that spiritual experience.
You connected with with with people in the meetings, though you were somewhat isolated.
But finally, at 60 days.
You get this woman who becomes your sponsor.
That must have been a big exhale for you at that point.
Oh, my gosh.
It's a big exhale for me now.
She was just this amazing woman, so kind and sweet.
And I thought that I thought I was the type of person that needed one of those hard ass sponsors.
But no, I needed someone who was gentle and kind and sweet.
I was really hard on myself already.
Yeah.
And so having her to gently guide me through the steps and she had a lot of time to spend with me, which I needed.
I needed guidance.
I needed conversations.
I needed a mentor, a sponsor, a good sponsor that had time for me.
And she had that.
And so she she really I thank her to this day.
Every sobriety birthday, I send her a long text and I'm like, thank you so much for spending all that time with me.
Thank you.
I know I was not great company, but I needed that.
Yeah.
So she puts you to work on the 12 steps right away.
Huh?
She did.
And like she said, she said, give me a month.
And we were at step five within a month.
So had you written out your fourth step before the month mark?
Yes.
OK, so you you did your fourth step.
What do you remember about doing your fourth step?
Was was that did you find that that was difficult or easy?
What were your.
Concerns when you got to that step?
It was hard.
I didn't want to dig up all the stuff from the past that I thought, you know, whatever.
That doesn't matter.
It was in the past.
I really didn't want to dig all of that up.
But I listened.
I took every suggestion that she gave every suggestion.
And so her suggestion was that I plan my whole weekend to just stay home, turn off my phone and do my fourth step.
And so I did that.
And the feelings that come up are not fun to sit with.
But she warned me about that.
And she said, light a candle, take breaks to breathe, walk your dogs, pray.
So she gave me suggestions on how to get through those hard feelings.
And it took me more than one week and it took me two weekends, actually.
And then we met.
I think it was on a Saturday to do my fifth step.
And that was a month later.
What was that like for you?
Wow.
It was humbling.
Yeah.
Very humbling to talk about, you know, these deep hurts.
And then to look at my part of it was hard.
It was hard.
I think that that does get easier with time looking at ourselves.
It was painful.
But I had minimal tears.
And the presence of my higher power was very near.
And I just, you know, I was at peace.
And when we finished it, I felt amazing.
And in the book, it talks about we'll be able to look others in the eye again.
And that was so true for me.
I remember the next day I went for a walk around the bayou.
And I'm like smiling and I'm looking at people like trying to make.
I can't say hi.
And that was not me before I was looking at the ground.
Wow.
That's so powerful.
One of my fondest memories of doing the fifth step.
And I've done several of them.
But the most powerful part of that particular process is maybe for the first time having somebody sit there and listen nonjudgmentally.
And knowing that irrespective of what I say, whatever the deepest, darkest, most.
The most hideous thing I could say is met with understanding and acceptance.
That's a feeling I never knew in my life until that point.
Yeah, I had I had never experienced that either.
I worked my way up to the darker stuff.
So at first, you know, I kept it light and I was testing to see, is she going to freak out?
And she didn't.
She just sat there calmly and listened to me.
And she was so kind.
And.
And understanding.
And some of them, she was like, me too.
And I was like, wow.
Yeah, that me too is a powerful statement for a listener to a fifth step to make.
And I've had that opportunity before, too.
And that's so important.
So you got through your fifth step, six and seven.
Yeah, right after I went home and did my hour of, you know, meditation and the work that needs to be done.
And then said my seventh step prayer and then eight step.
Yeah, I sat on that for a little while.
Did you?
Yeah, because the first time you do the steps, you've got a, you know, got a long list.
Yeah, that's true.
And so being willing to make all of those amends, it took me it took me a little while to get there.
But I got there.
Yeah.
Did you work pretty closely with her throughout that process?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I needed to.
And, you know, the ninth step, making my amends.
This was the first time I had worked the steps.
I've worked the steps since.
But this first time I was so terrified to make those amends.
Even after I saw how they went with, you know, the first couple, I was still terrified to make the others.
But never once have I had a bad experience with amends.
Never once.
And I've done the steps three times now.
That ninth step is so powerful in healing relationships.
So by the time you got through doing the ninth step.
And then doing it again and again.
How do you feel about the ninth step today?
About doing a ninth step amend?
If you do find one you need to make.
I love it.
I have to humble myself.
So I got to get over that little hump of pride.
But once I squash that, humble myself and make the approach.
I know what's on the other side of it.
And there is a spiritual high on the other side of it.
And I'm an alcoholic.
I love good highs.
So I look forward to that part of it.
Yeah, that's pretty amazing.
And all the healing that can go on and a certain amount of forgiveness and other things.
Although, you know, I always have been told and I tell the men that I sponsor with regard to the ninth step to go in with super low expectations.
Better to be pleasantly surprised when it goes well, as opposed to completely crushed when you have your expectations so high and they don't forgive you right away or they throw you out or something like that.
I've had guys I sponsor who've tried to make ninth step amends and literally been thrown out or said, don't do it.
You know, don't come see me again ever.
That kind of thing.
That can be a kind of a hurtful thing to have happen.
But it sounds to me like you got through yours without that kind of response from the people you were making your ninth step amends to.
Yeah, I guess I've been fortunate in that way.
And I mean, that that would be really painful to go and admit your wrongs and then have the other person, you know, be resentful toward you or mean or spiteful.
I have not experienced that.
Yet.
But it's always a possibility.
And and my sponsor says all we can do is clean up our side of the street.
That's right.
That makes me right with my higher power.
What the other guy says doesn't matter.
That's such a smart way to think about it, too.
That's exactly in line with the way I think about it as well.
So this kind of brings us full circle, Amanda, to the point where we were talking earlier about your service work.
And one of the service pieces of service work, what we can do is sponsor.
Sponsoring other people.
Have you had the experience of sponsoring other women?
I have.
What's that been like for you?
Oh, man, it is the highlight of my life.
You know, I have to be careful to not get too excited for my sponsees in case they don't make it.
But gosh, what a gift it is to see the light bulb come on.
And and, you know, every time I'm going to meet with a sponsee.
I don't know.
I don't know why this is, but I'm like, oh, I hope they cancel.
I hope they cancel.
My selfishness and self-centeredness is coming through.
I have so much to do.
I hope they cancel.
And then they and then I'll pray, God, please, like, bring them.
I really need to see them.
And so they come.
And then afterwards, I'm so happy.
Like, I just have a heart full of joy.
Nothing brings me as much joy as that.
Maybe other than seeing my niece born.
Like, that was pretty awesome.
But this is another form of of life coming to life.
And it's just so exciting.
And I'm so thankful that I get to be a part of that.
And I get to serve God in that way.
That's such a powerful statement, too.
And to have that kind of enthusiasm and joy in the process of sponsoring other people.
I don't think it's possible to have that unless you've already gotten it from your sponsor and passing it down the road.
Do you have any grand sponsors?
Have any of your sponsors started sponsoring other women yet?
Not yet, but I'm hopeful that'll happen in the maybe in the new year where my girls are now in the steps.
I'm hoping probably in the new year I'll have a grand sponsor.
That's a whole new experience of joy and pleasure as well to be able to see people doing so well with their own sobriety that they can literally pass it on as being a good sponsor to somebody else.
So it sounds to me, Amanda, that you've had quite a few gifts come up in your life.
Can you tell me of any others that kind of stick out at this point that looking back, you might have sold yourself short if you had thought that it wasn't going to happen?
What kind of other gifts have occurred for you since sobriety?
Oh, my goodness.
There's so many that I wouldn't choose or ask God for what I have today.
So let's see.
We can start with my job.
I have my dream job now.
I stepped into the role in May of this year.
I stepped into the role in May of this year.
After a couple of years of working those early sobriety jobs, I worked at a treatment center in an admin position.
I really hated it.
But there was benefit that came out of that.
I mean, I learned how to manage money better.
I had a very supportive team.
There was healing there with women in the workplace.
A lot of good came out of that.
But the job that I that I stepped into is more than what I asked my higher power.
And it's something that is deeply meaningful to me and only God would have known.
The position was actually created for me, which is crazy that someone would create a position for me.
They saw something in you, didn't they?
They must have.
I don't know what it was, but I'm glad they did.
When you get jobs created for you, that's...
That's such a compliment and such a great sign of God working in your life that people notice to the extent that they're willing to create a whole job around it.
That's marvelous.
Yeah.
Other gifts.
Let's see.
Well, I met this wonderful man at your meeting.
Yes.
And again, I wouldn't have chosen him.
My picker is off.
But.
Just the way everything happened and and it was totally God.
We've been dating for over two years now, and he's just a really amazing person.
And I love that he works a program and we have this in common.
And yeah, he's just a wonderful guy and so sweet and kind and thoughtful and willing to look at himself.
And that is the most attractive quality about him.
Which I would have never thought that before I got sober, like, oh, he's willing to look at himself, like, what does that even mean?
Yeah, I get that.
That's something that in a lot of ways is kind of special, too, and unique about Alcoholics Anonymous is that one of the things we need to be doing on an ongoing basis is looking at ourselves.
And if we're not looking at ourselves, the people we've surrounded ourselves with are looking at us to reflect back to us what we're really doing in our lives.
So that's really a that's a.
That's a marvelous statement.
Sounds like God had a hand in that for you as well.
Huh? Absolutely.
Because I remember when you started coming to that meeting for the first time and he hadn't started coming to that meeting yet.
Or maybe you must have met him shortly after he started coming to that meeting, huh?
Well, he said that he was going to that meeting for a while and then he stopped.
And that must have been when I started going.
Oh, yeah. And then and then someone told him that there was an attractive blonde going there.
So he decided to come back.
Well, never let it be said that there aren't a few ulterior motives, though, knowing the man.
I'm sure they were they were very noble and and kind, you know, at the heart of it.
So that's a beautiful gift to be able to have somebody else that is working a good a program.
It's it's so rare.
And, you know, given the number of people who are in the program who have significant others, boyfriends, girlfriends, spouses that are not supportive or if they're
not not supportive, they're ambivalent.
To be able to have somebody that you can speak a speak to has got to be a really comforting feeling.
It is. It is.
And also, you know, when I'm off the beam, he can spot it and call me on it.
And that helps because I can't always see that myself.
It helps to have him to be able to spot when when I've when I'm irritable, restless or discontent.
And it helps when when he can give me.
Program language, like if I'm stressing out about, you know, two months from now or I just recently had a surgery and I had to take narcotics and and I was really worried about it.
And he's like, one day at a time, call your sponsor, you know, all of the are you checking this in with your sponsor and just having that reinforcement there is such a gift.
Yeah. Another one of those God things for sure.
Well, you know, for someone with three and a half years.
After what you went through to get to AA, what a blessing it is to have you in the program and what a blessing it is for the program to be in your life.
And I've watched you grow and change over the last several years.
And to me, there's no greater demonstration of God's working in our lives and someone working a really good AA program.
And it sounds to me like that's what you're doing.
I mean, I see it when I see you.
I see it in your eyes.
I see it in your behavior around other people, too.
And you can always tell how people.
Really are about the way you see them treating other people.
And you're so kind and loving to the members of the groups that you and I go to, and you're very receptive to their approach, which is the reason why you've got sponsors and you're working that particular part of the program.
So I just love the fact that you and I have had a chance to get to know each other a little bit better today.
This is something we haven't done.
But one of the advantages of doing these interviews is I get to spend an hour, an hour and ten minutes with people who I love and I love you.
And you're a really special person in my life.
And you certainly enhance and brighten up the meetings that we go to together and I'm sure your other meetings as well.
And what I would say to anybody with three and a half years is keep on keeping on.
Stay in the middle of the herd and remember that all of us want you to succeed just as you want the people around you to succeed.
And I can't thank you enough for doing this.
Well, thank you, Howard.
That was so kind.
And you are such a blessing.
You are such a blessing to the program as well.
I just love your shares and your heart and how you love people and you're not scared to say it.
And I love you too, Howard.
Thank you.
That means a lot to me.
Thanks.
Well, my friends, that's a wrap for today's episode of AA Recovery Interviews.
Thank you for tuning in.
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Thank you.
Have a great rest of your day.
Have a great week!