Group Conscience and General Service – AA Service Workshop – 2026 – Part 2 of 2 – Billy N.

everyone can hear me awesome that's really good i would ask anyone that doesn't have any kind of accessibility issue or anything to please put on your camera unless you really can't but pleased to be respectful to everyone else that you are paying attention in this meeting um uh we will start with the serenity prayer god grant me the serendipity to accept the things I cannot change the courage to change things. I can and the wisdom to know the difference so a couple of things first Anyone that I met in Toronto this weekend I really want to thank you For those that you don't know it was a good another good lesson that um, I stole from somebody else We had a traditions workshop at a big recovery conference and there was like 2,200 people in the room And the reason that worked if you have hand in a program and you're trying to get people to hear about the traditions is Number one, there was nothing else going on. And number two, they didn't call it a traditions workshop. They called it myths and misconceptions, which sounded really cool and far out. You know, I remember Tom I saying a long time ago, you know, put a traditions workshop on the program and three people show up. Call it the sex and relationships meeting and like more people than are actually at the conference show up so, you It's all about how you package it to everyone else. I do want to make an announcement about tomorrow night at 9 o'clock. Jimmy D, a past trustee and a past AWS chair from Northeast Texas will be with me tomorrow night and we are specifically here to talk about Tomorrow Night Warranty 2 and Tradition 7. Based on all the questions everybody has about what's going on with money in the general service arena. There's so much information out there, but it'll give you an opportunity to ask as many questions as you want to ask about all kinds of topics, budget, reserve fund, how does the conference decide on money when they approve an advisory action, any kind of topic possible. What we're not going to do is tell you how to vote or, you know, we're just going to encourage you to ask questions so you can bring questions to your delegates and to make sure that there's accurate information out there. We are not anti-information here. We're also not trying to go behind the group content process. We encourage everyone that attends this. Now we're on the tradition, so we're nicht as much in the concepts. But, you know, if you have something that's bothering you in AA, you know, bring it to your delegate, bring it to a district chair. Make sure that you have a GSR that actually goes to district meetings and assemblies and make sure you have a group that actually cares what your GSR has to say. You know, I had like an hour and 10 minutes and then 20 minutes of questions Saturday in Toronto, and probably the one thing that people with time, I want to repeat that, people with Time commented to me because I was driving home having a GSR. Don't be complaining in two months that you don't like what AA did is the one things they all said was, you know, we really got out of the habit of giving the GSR the proper time to report back. we not we did not give them we expect them to go to a district meeting in assembly but we don't give them the proper time to report back so that's enough of that um i think i did mention a couple of weeks ago but if somebody wasn't here or if somehow i let it go because maybe i did it intentionally i don't know but um suzanne s who came to this monday night for a long, long time. And Suzanne was a past delegate from Area 30, Eastern Massachusetts. And the last two times that she was on here was probably like six weeks ago from her hospital room in Massachusetts. And she did pass away a couple of weeks ago. She served as a delegate recently and was the chair of the finance committee at the conference. and um it was my honor to know her for sure she was a diehard um i could pass on one thing that her daughter shared at her funeral which i thought was very interesting and as those of you know or maybe you don't know because we get people make comments about it all the time aa doesn't break anybody's anonymity after they pass away but the family is free to do whatever they want with their anonymity that's what our group conscience says people sometimes write me and say i don't like that obituary they said friend of bills well it's not your business it's clearly one of those things where there's your business and none of your business the conference has voted that that is none of your business that's the family's business some families don't want it mentioned some families do want it mentioned so obviously her daughter was given her eulogy and i would just pass on one of the things that i left there with was her mom had like a couple of different communities in her life she had her uh i want to say gardening community she had her work community she worked at a big law firm um she had her neighbors that she was really close to and she had her aaa community and her daughter kind of thanked all those communities from the front of the room said i want to thank all these communities that my mother was part of but she did say when she said and i want to thank the aa community not only the largest but the most significant one my mother belonged to as it relates to our family and my mother's 45 years sober and what that gave us and uh amazing because that's suzanne was a 20 year old girl who came into aa um scared and broken and uh unfortunately died at 65 but died 45 years over what a gift um to be given that so we are on tradition to tonight this is being recorded if he didn't get the notice I'm gonna read the long form for our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority a loving God as you may express himself in our group conscience and I'm going to read the short form which as some of you know is longer than the long-form only an AA could we pull that off not many organizations are really that qualified to pull off something like that but the short form for our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority a loving god as you may express himself in our group conscience are leaders of the trusted servants they do not govern why is the short form longer well because when they were writing the short from um there was a little pushback on tradition too from the membership that it kind of sounded government like so they wanted to make sure that trusted servants don't govern they just serve um i do want to talk a little bit about a little history as far as it's really important to know that when the traditions were pushed back on this was one of the ones that was pushed back the most tradition three obviously which we'll talk about next week because it wasn't 2026 in 1946 it was 1946 and the world was very different and even looking around this room tonight I see people who are a different color or race than me or even if someone doesn't have their camera on and I know what race or color they are in 1946 there were still 13 states in the United States that had segregation they couldn't meet publicly so we'll talk a lot about that with tradition three but tradition two was the one that bothered old-timers the most because it's so important to understand this that it was really good to be an old timer in 1945. i mean it's good to be an all-timer today but it was a really good time to be in 1945 and remember old timer is rather subjective if you had six years in 1942 or 46 that was like having 80 years today like if you had six or seven years most likely you might have been a man there were a couple of women but you were the king or queen of aa in your area that's it you were the king and there was no group conscience there was 12 traditions and you got to make all the decisions you got to decide when AA met where AA met how much money people should put in the hat you got to decide if the women should all meet in a room around you know on the other side of the house while the men were having an you get to make all the decisions so it was pretty revolutionary that all of a sudden this tradition came out saying all you kings and queens of a a we don't have royalty here and we don' t have anybody that's in charge like everybody is equal one member one vote and you know one of the things that we've learned over time if you read a day comes of age is that sometimes the newcomer knows best, sometimes the old timer knows best, but what we know the most is the group knows better than everybody. And, you know, our group conscience process is really about finding a compromise as much as winning or losing a vote. um i do want to stress that um in the traditions illustrated which i hope you all have you know it says aa is both a democracy and in bill's words a benign anarchy a group elects its own officers who have no power to order anybody to do anything that's a pretty strong statement no power to order anybody to do anything in most groups most of the slate rotates out of office at the end of six months and new offices are elected and in the end it says then who's in charge around here a is a spiritual movement and so the ultimate authority is the spiritual concept of the group conscience i think it is important um to maybe straighten out a little english language from the start some people will say well god decided no god did not come down and decide and that is not what the tradition says it says a loving god as he may and if you want to say if she may i don't really care but whoever may they may but they may not right may if you talk to a lawyer means may not guaranteed um but that's the best process we have is a group conscience process now it's sad to me because we have aa comes of age we have the 12 and 12 and then we have this the AA group pamphlet the one you talk to AA members and randomly everybody knows about the big book in the 12th and 12th but people know about AA comes of age more than they know of the AA Group Pamphlet and in the AAgroup pamphet there's a section that says, what is an informed AA group conscience? And that's what I want to talk about. Informed and a fair process. It says the group conscience is the collective conscience of the group membership and thus represents substantial unanimity on an issue before definitive action is taken. We in AA call substantial unanimity two-thirds. doesn't mean your group can't use majority voting a lot of groups use a mix of both they have majority voting when it comes to do you like decaf or earl grey tea do you likes cupcakes or sheet cake for your anniversary meeting but when it come to the format of the group and maybe the bylaws of the the group or the guidelines of the group, whatever you call it. A lot of groups have two-thirds to make any change, but we call substantial unanimity two- thirds. This is achieved by the group members through the sharing of all full information. So listen to that. The sharing of all full information, individual points of view, and the practice of AA principles. To be fully informed requires a willingness to listen to minority opinions with an open mind that's a big ask of alcoholics and then it says on sensitive issues the group works slowly discouraging formal motions until a clear sense of its collective view emerges in other words maybe it's just good to talk about something and we have such nothing against real lawyers i'll call them aa lawyers um where somebody wants to scream from the rooftops we can't discuss anything without emotion i don't know i'm reading here discouraging formal motions until a clear sense of the collective view emerges so there's nothing wrong with your group having or a district or an area having kind of a sharing session about a topic where you just kind of listen into everybody's views, but that's what it says. It says placing principles before personalities. The membership is wary of dominant opinions. Its voice is heard when a well-informed group arrives at a decision. The results rest on more than a yes or no count precisely because it is the spiritual expression of the group conscience. The term informed group conscience implies that pertinent information has been studied and all views have been heard before the group votes. That's pretty important. Pertinent information has been studies and all views have been heard before the group votes. We have lots of different places in AA where we vote, the group, the district, the area, then at the general service conference where there's official background that every delegate gets. But a couple of things I want to talk about regarding all of this is that, number one, there are no emergencies in Alcoholics Anonymous. There are no emergencies. That does not mean I'm not saying that a floor action at the General Service Conference is not okay. Sometimes I hear and I recently read the new How the Conference Operates document, sometimes I hear people want to say like don't bring a floor action it's not okay like let it go through the committee process well that's nice but the new preamble was created by a floor action and that was a motion made by a staff member not an area delegate So I don't try to play around with like floor actions are bad or anything, but I do know this. At the basic group level, just like throwing something on a group one night and asking for an immediate vote is probably not the best way to go. I know a lot of groups that have written in their guidelines, a lot of regular AA groups that if somebody wants to bring a substantial change to the format of the meeting or like how they elect officers or anything like that, that you have to give it to the secretary and it has to be read for like a month before the next business meeting so that all group members know we're dealing with it. Now, I know someone like me could easily want to tell people, I don't care. They should come to the business meeting anyway. If they're a member of the group, why don't they get their head out of their ass and really join AA like the rest of us, you know? But no one's asking me. That's just, you know, me shooting my opinion. Like, maybe there is someone who has something going on at home or on at school or on at work and you know what's wrong with just letting the secretary tell people hey at the next meeting we're going to decide this um you know if anyone here was you know alive and sober during the great early 90s late 80s mid 90s of the smoking debates it was a disaster it was a complete disaster you would go to a meeting one week i'd be enjoying a cigarette and a cup of coffee probably three four cigarettes at a meeting the way i smoked and a nice cup of copy and of course i blew off the business meeting and i come back to that meeting next week and guess what more non-smokers went to the business meeting the week before than smokers and all of a sudden the meeting's non- smoking so what do i do i tell all the smokers the next three weeks hey you got to go to the business meeting and we change it back to smoking like god realized aa was not mature enough to deal with the smoking issue he took it he or she whoever you call god took it away from us the government just decided that in most public buildings you can't smoke that way a didn't have to fight about it but i know i hear based on different parts of the country and there are people from in different parts of the world here um it doesn't matter what you call your business meeting we don't have to go on a debate of is this a group conscience meeting or a business meeting that's like asking if you walk to work walk to school or brought your lunch right it doesn't make a difference right it Doesn't Make A Difference Whatever Your Group Calls It You Call It Some Groups Only Have A Group Conscience About Group Issues Like The Format And Stuff like a couple of times a year other times i just have like you know basic business meetings to deal with like the just basic business of the group other groups every week some groups are very formal other groups are not formal at all that's up for your group to decide um but if you just bring something up that night um how do we get this to happen placing principles before personalities the membership is wary of dominant opinions its voice is heard when a well-informed group arrives at a decision which means if you have an important decision to make people should be given time to maybe read some a.a literature maybe talk to a couple of people read some aa history um it seems that everyone should be given that time to be fair. The way we conduct ourselves in group conscience meetings, and I'm talking at all levels, at group, at district, at area, you know, when it says the membership is wary of dominant opinions, you know that's someone who's always at the microphone at your assembly or your district or even at the general service conference or someone who can't shut up at your group business meeting they have to share on every single topic and multiple times i mean there's some basic rules of etiquette for a group conscience like everything needs to be said but not everyone needs to say it that's a great you know yes everything needsと be said but it doesn't need to be said multiple times but this dominant opinion we have to be very careful of because i'll call it the type a dominant opinion is very easy to identify either every time you look at them their mouth is open and words are coming out or they're always at the microphone but there's another dominant opinion that sometimes we don't talk about that we should be very careful of and that is the rolling of the eyes that is the whispering somebody next to you um that is uh my favorite in modern day aaa assembly and district meetings when somebody texts another person and tells them go say this at the microphone yeah that's horrible like what texting is done is it's allowed now we have undercover dominant personalities so the ability to text in a meeting allows them to not go to the microphone but they really are going to the mic and the only way we can stop that is by us in mentoring or service sponsorship of telling people please tell whoever tells you to go to the microphone to mind their own business and if they have something to say that they should go there themselves and we also have to be very careful of in modern day aaa not only the dominant personality but the dominant service sponsor family which drives me crazy um that we've have like caucuses of who's in whose service lineage and do all those people vote the same way um i would say that if you're really doing your job around tradition too and passing this on to other members of aa who are interested in the traditions or in service that you really believe that if they vote differently than you that's okay and that they may have studied the same aa comes of age that i did the same a group pamphlet that i did they may Have gone on and found a couple of articles in the aa grapevine um online archives and believe it or not, after reading everything that I read they feel differently we should encourage that and here's another kind of modern day thing that is kind of, I believe, it's the reason that in the US and Canada we've had some hard times the last couple of years past trustees writing letters that 20 of them are signing motions to censure the general service board i'm not saying whether they're good or bad none of my business um but why are we having so much difficulty one of the things that i see that i think is causing it is people confusing unity with unanimity that if we all vote the same way we have a a unity that is not true and it actually goes against our history our history tells us listen if you're deciding whether to have earl grey or english breakfast and you vote unanimous it might not surprise me right like certain votes not a big deal that they're unanimous but when the boat is on a really hot aa topic with a lot of emotion if everybody is voting the same way we probably have a bigger problem like a very, very loud sometimes difference of opinion on both sides has helped AA to remain in the middle. The group conscience is not about you're right, I'm wrong, I'll do it. I'm right, you're wrong. It's really about can we find a path forward that works for us all? And can we find a way to all of us with substantial unanimity get behind it? But, you know, when you hear, you know I'll use an example of 2018. Some of you that were around have heard the manuscript debate. And listen, there's still people who have strong opinions on that. But the bottom line is, whether you were pro-the-manuscript litigation or anti-the manuscript litigation, at the end of it, we dropped our case and paid the guy we sued legal bills. Okay? That's a fact. That's not an opinion. So that says a lot. Now, how is it possible that on an issue that divided the fellowship That the trustees said they were unanimous Now I recently heard a past trustee speak on this issue Who was there in the room And he said it was the worst mistake of his life as a trustee Making that vote Worst mistake he's ever made in AA service And he said the reason he voted for the litigation was because some other trustees had convinced him that it would be good for the fellowship if they knew it was unanimous. I would tell you that that kind of unanimous action on a hot topic is not unity. We want to encourage all different sides. Now, I want to talk a little bit about the General Service Conference. Because a lot of you are involved in service. The agenda items came out a couple of weeks ago. There's going to be a conference in a couple weeks. What's today's date? March whatever. st patrick's day gone already so it's like five weeks um the process has to be fair and i'm going to tell you what i'm talking about is when i became a non-trustee director in 2009 prior to that i had only voted at the conference twice when i was a delegate both years as a delegate. But now I'm in a position where I have my own vote at the conference. Like there's 135 voting members, 93 of them are area delegates representing the groups of which I'm a member of the group. But yet because of my position, I have my own vote the fourth concept gives me that right of participation but it also comes with a really big right of responsibility in carrying out that vote and i think one of the things that's happened the last couple years that has caused some disunity is that when i became a non-trustee director i was sat down by other people who came before me. And I was told, Billy, once the conference agenda goes out, you should keep your mouth shut at any area assembly or district meeting you're at. Like, you have your own vote. You get to use that vote as you like. But what you don't get to do is to be lobbying inside the fellowship for the way you want it to go or the way the board wants it to go and you know many a time um i was at an assembly or a district meeting and somebody asked me what i thought and i would always say this is not the place for me to share like this is the place for you to find your own group conscience. And I think over the last six or seven years, we've done some things that have caused us all this acrimony in the fellowship. And I'll give you an example. And before I give that example, I will just get a disclaimer out. I am thankful for all the time that the trustees take and sacrifice to serve the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. I am thankful for all the directors who serve on the AWS and AA Grapevine Board, and I am grateful for all of the staff. And I have the utmost respect for the sacrifice in their life that they take out to serve the fellowship that saved my life. I just have a different opinion than a couple of them who are the loudest voices in the fellowship right now and i respect that i have a different opinion they are out there screaming that people shouldn't have different opinions and that i don't know where they're getting that from and one of the things we disagree on the strongest and i'm going to give you two examples over the last couple years there have been some motions to censure the board i am not here to say whether that motion or motions were valid or not i'm already on record centering the board should not be a response because you don't like the way group conscience went on a conference item holding money back the power of the purse shouldn't be your response because you don't like what they did at the conference centering the board or the power the purse should be used only if you believe there is a rogue board or a rogue board member who needs to either be warned that's what a censure is or removed that's the power the conference has and i'm not even here saying that the censures that was sent in were valid but i am saying this the plain language big book whether you liked it or not or do like it or not is your own business but we made a major change in alcoholics anonymous in the three months leading up to the conference where the plain language big book was approved and i am telling you this and letting everyone hear on tape that i was an early supporter of the plain-language big book early years before i know the reading level of the plain language big of the regular big book i know that it's like 12th grade i know that the average inmate in the united states has like less than a fourth grade reading level i was i was really interested in the idea that maybe we could have a big book that people who are have less reading level could use and again i can be arrogant it's easy for me to say well they can go through it with a sponsor plenty of people learn to read with a big book but there's a lot of correctional facilities where you don't have a sponsor where there's no one with you to help read um so i'm just letting this out that i am not some anti-book burning plain language big book person okay but that doesn't mean that i like the process and i understand why some people felt burned Because for the first time in the history of the board, first time, it's a long time, in over 70 years, in the period between when the conference agenda came out and the General Service Conference, trustees and directors put on informational workshops over the weekends. all in favor of the plain language big book and that's not their job now some of them would say i was invited but let me be very clear i was at prasa that year where a non-trustee director on the grapevine went up to the microphone and said if you would like one of these workshops please email me and the job once the agenda comes out is for the delegate to get all the information and pass it on now even if you asked a trustee or a director or a staff member to come to a meeting to provide information that's one thing but I went to many of those plain language Big Book informational sessions, and they were nothing but lobbying sessions telling people to vote in favor of it. And what happened? The plain language Big Book passed. Now, what about if one of you sent in a censure motion for the General Service Board? Now, the last couple of censure motions haven't even made out of the committee. the last one that went uh was a floor action last year got like hardly any votes so it doesn't even sound like they were really valid to me i don't know because i wasn't involved but i do know this let's say i sent in a censure motion if you let me do informational workshops like you let the trustees literature committee do on the plain language big book in the weekends leading up to the general service conference i will guarantee you we would have gotten more votes in favor of a censure like that's why we don't do that that's why the time between when that agenda comes out and the General Service Conference is sacred for that area without interference from someone else who has their own personal vote at the General Service Conference and I think we need to preserve that we need to honor the integrity of the AA groups and the aa areas that in between time there are no real lobbying time and the other thing i want to talk about is questions i'm not here to do a concept 9 workshop but there's a lot of a leaders in this workshop and a lot of people who will be a leaders i know that and we take the high road when it comes to difficult questions You know one of the tools that's appeared in Alcoholics Anonymous service unfortunately is that we brand someone who asks a lot of questions as a troublemaker and We tell people oh this person's a troublemaker Why Just because they ask a lot hard questions now Now, if you're ugly when you make your questions, well, if I was a chairperson, I wouldn't even let you come back to the microphone. That's a chair person problem. Like an ugly person at the microphone, a disrespectful person, a condescending person. If that's happening in any group conscience setting you're in, then you have a weak chairperson. That's the chairperson's job to make sure that behavior like that doesn't happen. But if all somebody is doing is asking a hard question or playing devil's advocate and doesn't agree with everyone else, that doesn't make the person a troublemaker. You know, oftentimes the voice of reason sometimes comes from someone we don't even expect. um but we have to have respect that everybody's opinion and experience is important now when it comes to minority opinion we should respect the minority opinion um i'm not here to talk about the fifth concept and the right of appeal and petition but minority opinion is part of the group conscience process. Now, believe it or not, now I know I'm going to get some hate mail for this, but I, as some people who give me a hard time would say, the all-powerful Billy N., right, got called out of order at the Narasa business meeting, right? That's what some people Who Would Give Me a Hard Time would say. Now, I thought the Narasa business meeting this year was a disgrace at the highest level. Because Narasa and Prasa and places like that were supposed to be setting the example for new people in service, for new GSRs to learn. That's our job. And the Narasa chairperson, the business meeting chairperson and the parliamentarian listened to how unfair this was for the group that was there. The chairperson being a past delegate and the Parliamentarian being a past delegate started out the business meeting by the started it out by saying we're going to operate with the rules of the general service conference i was like great that's awesome that's what i said to myself and then he actually took the document out and held it up and read a couple of things from it so it seemed pretty clear to me we're using the rules of the general service conference this chairperson unfortunately called out of order a young female gsr which i thought was disgusting and when i went up to the microphone i said i'd like to make a point of order and he said oh you're out of water i said really i just want to make it point of order he said okay what's your point of order i said well you started this group conscience meeting by saying you were going to use the rules of the general service conference and now you're not and you know what his response was oh billy not everyone here has been to as many general service conferences as you don't be so technical i was like me being technical you said you were using the rules of the general service conference and now that it's convenient you're not and you know to take it one step further minority opinion we don't have a question in the aa this is the message i want to send everybody who's here there's no such question after we take a vote does anyone want to change their vote okay it does not exist in aa literature it does not exist anywhere we don't care who wants to change their vote what one person wants to change their votes so we're going to have a whole new vote that's like one person getting the power of the whole meeting which is why we don't have it now i don't know what your group conscience does but at the general service conference after a vote and i'm going to use this term if no one has heard it before if somebody here has not heard it non-prevailing side because when you deal with substantial unanimity one of the problems is is that sometimes the majority is the non-provailing side because they didn't get two-thirds so you can't just say the majority and the minority we call it the minority opinion but sometimes it's coming from the majority because they just didn't get two thirds but the way it works at the general service conference is someone who's on the side that lost the non-prevailing side those people are allowed to give minority opinion and the minority opinion is heard by everyone and after minority opinion is done someone who voted on the winning side is allowed to make a motion of reconsideration they get up to the microphone they say their name they say i voted with the prevailing side and i'd like to make a motion to reconsider it has to come from the side that won the motion can be seconded by anybody and then we have a vote it's a majority vote at the conference not a two-thirds vote on that particular process if more than half of the room decides they want to reconsider it debate is open again and that's our process and it takes a long time to learn that but that's what we should be free to be sharing with people who spent money or a group spent money to go to narasa like just think about that that's when i sat there thinking how disrespectful it was Because Narasa was in the top of the Northeast region this year. It was in Maine. So if your group in New York or Connecticut or Pennsylvania paid your mileage to go to Maine or bought you a plane ticket, it was a couple hundred bucks. And then your group got you a room for Friday and Saturday night. That was another couple hundred dollars. but like your group is so concerned about the future of alcoholics anonymous that they want to fully participate in gsr and send you there i think the group should be willing at least have a reasonable expectation that you're going to learn about service and what happened at narasa after an important vote the chairperson and the parliamentarian asked in a room of a couple hundred people with all these new gsrs does anyone want to change their vote and i think about yes no one's perfect but we have a responsibility to pass this on to the new people and to call someone out of order because the chairperson i mean just makes um a lot of groups do it differently but that is the way we do it at the general service conference It is a motion to reconsider, and it happens a lot. There are many motions that are reconsidered, and sometimes the original vote goes the same way as the second vote. Sometimes the second vot is different. You never know. And just to finish that loop at the General Service Conference, if a motion-to-reconsider passes and the body votes to reconsider and discussion opens up again and then we get to another vote after that second vote there is no minority opinion that second boat just sticks that's our process that's how we do things so um i am going to ask um If anyone, I can let, before we go to questions and answers for a couple of minutes, which you can send in via chat. If there is anyone who would like to share their experience with the group conscience, and I want to make this clear. two minutes after two minutes your mic goes off because i actually prefer if it's somebody who i know who goes first and goes over because then it doesn't look like i'm playing favorites but two minutes if you would like to share a group conscience experience with the rest of us in a non-judgmental, non-ugly way, please raise your virtual hand and I will unmute you and call on you. We would love to hear your experience. I'll give it another minute okay cat are I am gonna be unmuting you you will be getting a message to unmute Thank you. I'm Kat R., Addict Alcoholic from Minnesota. So I just wanted to say thank you for these types of service conferences, like you're doing good works here because I have been involved in service longer than I have had any idea what service actually is. And in the general rules of debate and voting the conference right it says our experience is that premature actions that there's amending motions early in discussion or hastily calling the question can divert attention from the subject at hand confusing and or delaying conference business and i just wanted to come on to my to express my gratitude for the people who have come before me who are doing these types of workshops um because i have been that person i have in that person we're in the heat of debate i'm like okay you know let me amend what i just said before fully hearing people out and i really like um earlier in your talk where you were where you're mentioning like a fully informed group conscience uh my home group is very very small i am the gsr for my home group and i got overwhelmed by the agenda items when i needed to bring them back and someone more experienced in service than me said all you got to do is bring the agenda item itinerary and then if your group is actually interested give them the information for that uh and i was surprised that my group was only interested in one one out of those many agenda items and i wasn't able to give them that information i was able to get their conscience and i was able to go to the west central with that feedback um and so honoring the process and learning it first or second and this is my experience has been a wonderful adventure so that was just something that was on my mind as i was listening to you speak so thank you for letting me share thank you okay let's see next is brandon i am going to unmute you i will start the timer for two minutes hey everybody brandon alcoholic um thanks billy uh thanks for the invite on the weekend and uh grateful to be here um i personally got involved in service by a stiff kick in the butt from a guy when i was brand new and he just said you look like you could be a gsr and here's the service manual and i look at it like that was a blessing and also it was frightening but it allowed me to experience and and uh get out on my own and and seek the answers um i was looking for and through that i i gained a lot of knowledge and i would bring this stuff um these these new things i would learn and i would share them with people and then it made me a better gsr and i would bring my home group all this information that i'm supposed to do and and uh And I was met with a lot of, you know, you talked earlier about the back before the traditions and yada, yada. The old timers had all the power, you Know, and I was Met by a few of those guys. And I had some experiences early on where I went off the handle and I Was making amends and my sponsor was laughing at me and it Was great. and it all taught me you know more and more and uh i had i had ended up having to leave that home group uh after they had found a new gsr to replace me um due to um it just wasn't the way i wanted to continue to do and uh and be a part of alcoholics anonymous because we were not a part of alcoholic synonymous and we were nicht doing the things that we were you have 10 seconds and uh with that i will uh shut up thanks bill thank you good seeing you you too buddy okay let's see next oh next is somebody i owe a phone call back on something but katie e you gotta unmute okay hi everybody good evening my name is katie and i am an alcoholic and uh thank you so much billy for for this um format and i'm just excited to be here tonight and to continue on other monday nights uh this is my first time here and you asked for um a group conscience examples and i have one from before covet i can't remember exactly what year but uh it was right after the panel change it was either the first or the second group uh general district meeting and one of our chair people wanted uh the group to allocate or the district to allocate money for their cause and they had been around for a while and they really pushed this we had a lot of new gsrs there wasn't much discussion and it was uh sort of pushed and when the vote came there was a um uh a vote in favor of it the vote ended up in favor of it and then uh later a gal who had been at the meeting uh decided that she thought that that was uh you know it had really been driven it wasn't really pushed it was not we weren't informing these new gsrs and so she wrote a letter of appeal to the dcm not sure if this was the right way for it to go but that vcm brought up the letter and explained what the reasoning was and then there was um you know a motion to um to reconsider the vote and the um when it was reconsidered um it failed um and but it was very interesting to see how the dynamics of that bigger voice or somebody who speaks in an authoritative way and how important this this is and you're speaking to new GSRs who really are not some of them don't have a clue why they're there but how we have a process to correct that so thank you for allowing me to share that thank you very much please uh mute after you're done reset the timer let's see jim s you're on Thank you, Billy. I have two quick questions. One was, I remember a few years back that the GSO canvassed us or sent out a questionnaire about how to close the big meeting at the International Convention with the prayers and stuff. And I was like, why did they sidestep the conference process doing that? Was that something like a lobby too, like doing that, Like you were talking about, almost like with the workshops, even though it was different ingredients, but the same kind of recipe because it bothered me. And then the other question was, you know, and I was in the middle of the whirlwind of the manuscript litigation also. and the 450 or so thousand that we spent was that did that include you know because i heard you make mention that we paid the lawyer back and i didn't know if that that was part of that subtle that amount that we looked at what we spent for the litigation if you know thanks unmute i'll answer the questions first one is uh um on the closing prayers uh yes they did send out looking for feedback but the conference committee on international conventions and regional forums did make that decision so um they just were getting some feedback and it did go out to all the delegates some delegates chose not to bring it to their groups um but that item was on the agenda for the international for the conference Committee on International Convention and regional forums so that did go through uh the actual advisory action group conscience process um on the manuscript you can just safely call it a half million dollars auric legal expense in their legal expense you know was right around 500 000 all in so let's see who else is up up that's it no one else does anyone are there any questions that were sent in via chat let's see if a gsr is representing their group during an area motion discussion is it appropriate for the gsrr to go to the mic first saying this is my personal opinion as an individual and not as a representative of the group i think you're there to be a gsr you have a righted decision and your group knows you know it's like being a delegate you get the feedback from your area but you get to make the decision and vote the way you want to go the conference charter does say in rare cases and an area can direct its delegate how to vote but that rarely happens um most of the time the delegate or the gsr is um you know i would say that based on what the service manual says and gsr if their group has already decided and given them feedback on how they believe on an issue their belief they're there to carry out their group's wishes not their personal wishes now if they heard something there that they didn't hear before that changed their mind that's different than their group thought that's fine um but i sometimes you know we kind of believe like like we can almost like teleport like oh okay this is billion the past trustee but right now i want you to believe me that i'm billion the member of the primary purpose group at 7 a.m or now i'm billion like no it seems like like you're trying to make up for what you want to say um i would say you're there to be a gsr for your group but if you hear other information that makes you think if your group knew that they would probably have thought a different way that's why you have the right decision um so let's see any other questions i see one that says our experience with what the question feels so vague any experience at all uh oh yeah i was just talking about your experience with the group conscience process anything that you wanted to share that's it um so i want to say tomorrow night um listen you all probably know people who talk smack everywhere in aa they go about new york this new yorg that the trustee is this um there's so much bad information in there two ways it's 9 00 p.m tomorrow night um there's bad information with people talking about all kinds of things that have nothing to do with how we do money at aws a grapevine um at the general service board um you know when you think about a group conscience and you think about fully informed like so many people have called me how do i feel about the agenda item of the grapevine being able to get um direct contributions like that's on the conference agenda this year and i have to tell all of those people i mean that's your area's business or your group's business i'm more concerned that somehow a loophole around changing a tradition has made it to the conference's agenda that's what i'm concerned about like the conference charter is clear that traditions can't be changed by the conference. It takes 75% of the groups registered in writing given six months to respond to change a tradition. Yet somehow on our agenda this year, is should the general service should the grapevine be able to receive contributions so i don't even go to the agenda item the long form of tradition 9 says the trustees of the general services board are in effect our a general service committee they are the custodians of our aa tradition and the receivers of voluntary aa contributions it's not a aws who gets our contributions it's the general service board the general services board is free to give some of those contributions to the grapevine if you change that because it says to run our new york office but how is it possible that this has wound up on the conference agenda and guess what tradition nine is not in the background material i read all the background material the other day there's no copy of tradition nine or the long form of tradition 9 so tomorrow night we're just going to be talking about the truth around finances not anti-board not pro board just like what is the reserve fund how do you get there there's people running around saying all kinds of things um and we just want to be able to tell people where to find the information they need um and get accurate information without maybe getting in trouble because you asked a hard question i see somebody ebby d13 dcm you have your hand up but you do not are not on camera which means you are not eligible to ask a question on camera or so I'm giving you like 30 seconds right now your name on screen is Abby d31 DCM I'm just letting you know that for the safety of the group you have to be on camera to be able to share or you can send it in as a question via chat let's see if there's another question here how would you address someone parentheses a couple of people with 20 to 30 years sobriety that does a lot of lobbying before business meetings essentially how you would address someone well let me get some rules out there in this post pandemic world I live in if you want your home group to be healthy get rid of your home group whatsapp list okay trash it throw it out okay it does nothing but invite disunity now if you live in a place that gets a lot of snow then use it to say there's no meeting tonight okay or use it to send out these people are celebrating their anniversary that month the problem is we're dealing with alcoholics and they have no self-restraint like me so once you open up the avenue they will take advantage of it but there is so many problems in aa today over these stupid group texts and whatsapp kind of group debates get rid of them that's not a group conscience um as far as people with 20 or 30 years like controlling um yes 9 p.m tomorrow for the person who just asked um here's what i find you got to draw these people out into the open and what i mean by that is they love to operate behind the scenes they love the gossip text god knows what else email no have the discussion at the group business meeting and make them bring their two cents there um and if you have really a bunch of old timers that control it i don't know what to tell you except that um aa is one of the greatest self-correcting societies in the world if you read the history and actions of the general service conference you will see how self-correcting we are one year we said this another year we thought differently um you know that's how the will of god shows up today next year or the year after it might change And I would also make sure that if you're dealing with, like, the 20- or 30-year person, that when they give information to the group, you're asking them to back it up with facts. Like, you know, what's the rule I tell everybody here? I mean, I say it to everybody. If you are at any vote anywhere in AA, I don't care if it's your group. I don't care if it's your district, I don' care if you're in a group, I don''t care if its your area, I dont care if it's a general service conference. I'll use myself as the example. If you're listening to some kind of debate and discussion and somebody says, well, Billy N said vote against that person, okay? You're hearing it from me, okay. what somebody is bringing to the table is someone else's interpretation or opinion vote against them on principle alone like if people are bringing information to the it should tie back to a a literature that's it it should be based on the experience of aa literature so if you have somebody who's that controlling or a little click you know make sure whatever information they're sharing that somebody is asking them what page is that on what pamphlet is that out of what page in the service manual is that from um so that whatever influence they have the people listening to them know is that my their own opinion or is that coming out of aa literature let's see okay evie i got your question thank you i understand your camera situation just wanted to share i witnessed during a previous term an assembly where nine motions were brought forward by individuals with influence gsrs being the only ones permitted to present motions in my area what i found especially discouraging was the level of lobbying and the way and the way influence contributed to chaos on the floor a large percentage of the voting body consisted of new gsr's and there seemed to be confusion between unanimity and true unity i was truly heartbroken by what observed so what i tell you is i've been heartbroken witnessing some of those things but you can't let it get you down you just keep raising them by a principle in a principle like it's gonna happen we're human um i mean in my own area i love area 15. i'm a big supporter of area 15 But I would tell you right now, I start off most of these by saying we're not discussing conference topics. We're definitely not discussing Area 15 motions. And if I let people discuss Area 15 emotions here, I'm a past delegate from another area and a past trustee, but I didn't serve as a delegate in Area 15. Do you know what would happen if I started giving my opinion on Area 15 motions on this thing on Monday night? But yet there's other past delegates in my area who have a gathering of their service sponsees, and they actually call people who are making motions and ask them to come present it to them like they get an early version. If I did that, they would be tar and feathering me in Area 15, okay? um it would just not happen um but if you're seeing that that there's undue influence all i can tell you is like don't give up like um it's it's why service sponsorship drives me crazy i like it to some point i don't mind being a service sponsor but what i've seen it be used for these days just breaks my heart um and kind of what you're describing, you know? It's why when, you know, even some current trustees say, oh, Billy N's ego is out of control. He's sharing about the service manual on Monday nights. Well, the truth is I won't do one of these for just my service sponsees because that's exclusive in my opinion. Like only if you're willing to say that I'm your service sponsor, you can go through the service module, the traditions with me. Now, I'll one-on-one go through the concepts or the traditions with people, but I'm not going to say, oh, we're going to have a little meeting in my backyard or on Zoom and you can only come if you're in my service sponsee lineage. I just won't do that. Now if you want to have a gathering of your sponsees, recovery or service, just to talk about general things, that's fine but something like this where you're taking people through a literature I just don't think it was ever meant to be that exclusive like a private club like unless you're willing to tell people on your service sponsor you can't come to the zoom so that's why I do it this way because I won't do it the other way anybody else have any other questions okay I'll say one last time same zoom and id tomorrow night nine o'clock it's warranty two and tradition seven please let anyone you know who talks smack about money or anything else they're gonna come and want and listen um because we're going to really talk about at the lower level of the triangle the general service board a grapevine a um uh ws the general service office like what are the real facts around money um so that you're armed with the facts to talk to your delegate so with that i am going to close with the responsibility statement I am responsible when anyone anywhere reaches out for help I want the hand of a always to be there and for that I am responsible oh I'm putting my someone asked me I'm gonna put it in the one to everybody because someone just asked me and I guess I haven't put there in a while my email and my whatsapp if you have a question or something that you want to or I reference some document or something and you want to get it just please send me a message and I will get right back to you so that's it everyone have a good night thank you