His Sponsor Told Him He Couldn’t Think His Way Out of a Paper Bag – John D.

Hi everyone, my name is John. I'm an alcoholic. Thank you for asking me to speak. I didn't much time to prepare. Maybe that's a good thing. You know, the only real currency I think in AA is to be vulnerable and to be honest, to be willing, and to be open. Those are the shares that really affect me. Unfortunately today you'll probably get a performative share with a lot of talk about the steps and jokes and things like that. But by moments, I might ideally in a perfect world have a little bit of truth and vulnerability come through. But you can't really, there are certain things you can will. They asked me to talk about step two and step three. And step two is kind of interesting the way it's worded. It says we came to believe the power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. So that doesn't sound like an instruction to me, I came to believe. It sounds like something that happens to me. And, you know, what I want is to be able to do stuff. I want to beable to make something happen. But step two, and really in some ways step three, is something that happens to m. So the best I can do if I have a good, wise guide, is to place myself in a position to receive a gift. and one of the ways you can do that has to do really with step one. You know, the steps are all kind of connected maybe more deeply than some of us can see or perceive but now that I've been at this a while I really see the flow. They're not just connected they're step two exists outside of time I would say. It's extra temporal. Step two you're talking about it being outside of time because you've got people that are sharing about an experience they've already had that's how the step is worded we came to believe this is something that we did already we took these are the steps we took but then they're advising some people in the future to maybe have this experience so we're already shifting through time and in some ways a lot of the steps are this way there there's no time in the world of the spirit in someways so being extra temporal or outside the range of time means they're sort of always and everywhere true that the big book itself doesn't age or become obsolete like a textbook would i always say it's it's a nice abstraction and i believe it's really useful to say it'S a textbook and to take it in that manner and to do the steps in that way but it'S it'S really not a textbook this is a this IS a living document and a sacred text and and more is disclosed to us and if you approach it in THAT way uh i think it can be useful it can be useful in terms of allowing yourself to be transformed. I think what I wanted and what I still want and what I want to teach is information. And what I need is transformation. I need something to happen inside me that I can't quite produce. And it's a tough spot to be in when you're, someone said it beautifully the other day, I think Heather, someone told just genius right maybe you can't stop drinking what a phrase that is well what maybe you can't start drinking maybe if you summoned all your efforts as best you could maybe you'll find that you're unable to stop by force of will maybe something bigger than you has hijacked your mind and you're being driven by something maybe there's a parasite in there maybe you need some advanced spiritual jiu-jitsu because the disease right has you in a chokehold anybody do what is that called the wrestling thing ultimate fighting yeah brazilian jiu jitsu someone's got you in the chokehold if it's sunken pretty deep you're in trouble like you what is the proper response when that happens if you want to live you got to tap out you got a tap out right or No biting allowed. No, biting won't work. Have you seen the arms on these guys? It's like steel. I know what you're saying. I'm saying if it's sunk in, like all the way sunk in. Like you're about to die. You're going to get choked out. Yeah, you've got to give up. But I don't have that in my repertoire. Like surrender is like, what? How? Like it's a horror to find out that you can't surrender. And so what do you do? This is the dilemma we find ourselves in after step one. You've got some knowledge of the problem, and then you're like, all right, I'm going to write some stuff down and I'm Going to talk to some people and I am going to go to some meetings and I Am going to figure this thing out and I AM going to win and IAm going to get out of it. I Am Going to stop drinking. And it's kind of tricky. It's very difficult to think your way out of this dilemma. like it it doesn't always uh work or and book in in step two i've got it open to step two but i'm not great at finding these passages but i there's a passage that talks about that we have been abjectly faithful to the god of reason right did we not believe in our own reasoning didn't we have confidence in our ability to think and it's kind of interesting the point it's going to start to make there which is that my my reasoning like that i might not be able to think my way out of this one right and i might not be able to kind of effort my way out of it either so it's uh i just want to look a little more about what it says here i'm going to do this i hope this doesn't come across as pretentious or pompous i you know in an ancient tradition you're really not supposed to pray in public because it's like lacks humility or something but i'm gonna do a little prayer in public because I think it'll help me. We're about to talk about some spiritual stuff and stuff like that. I'm going to try to invoke this power that we're about the talk about. And I'm trained as a doing invocations and convocations and things like this is what they call a spiritual anyway, it's a bunch of gobbledygook. But I'm just going to say some prayers out of the big book and I'm gonna do kind of a mashup. I don't know what's gonna come. But I feel like I know what I need. I could be wrong about that too. So I'm going to get quiet for just a second. Give yourself an opportunity to see how quiet your mind can get. God, please remove my fear and direct my attention to what you would have me be today, here. I'm among my tribe I don't need to be afraid please remove my fear God please give me strength as I go out from here God please let me bear witness God please let me be a channel alright we'll see what happens thank you for indulging me in that so there's a tricky thing I was driving uh I was driving to uh New Mexico I was driving to New York because my the people who had raised me my adoptive father had died and I had about 10 years sober and um I felt mixed up and afraid because I had had a conflicted relationship with with you know my father and uh and I felt lonely and just all mixed up you know I'm going to this funeral and this family's going to be there and uh I stopped at a an AA meeting in New Mexico somewhere and in New México it was this kind of dusty little town and you know you kind of check out where when's the meeting I went to their little place there and they said the meeting is here or however I looked it up and I went and I was kind of flustered like it was had a different setup and I kicked over my coffee under my seat and I Was embarrassed and I just kind of mixed up and not not having a super great experience And shook up and i went, uh to the bathroom And i'm in the bathroom and I look up and there's a poster there And i've been to a lot of alano clubs and meeting clubs and I had never seen this poster before And I was in the right moment. I was broken. I was receptive. Even though I had a few years sober, I was still in that state of like teachableness. And something struck me in that moment. I looked up and it said... It was a quote. And I thought, oh, one of these, you know. And it said, basically it said something like to-do list. It said, I've got this. I'm going to take care of everything today. enjoy your day sign God I just remember leading my head against the thing going yeah you know like I was in a workshop last year with Mike and we talked about moments, spiritual moments right and moments of clarity you know and moments where you're you feel you feel something special right sometimes I think what I'm going to try to do is instead of talking about a lot of the step technician stuff which I'll talk about a little bit is what it feels like to do step two and I'll try to be in the experience of what it feels like to have that happen to you words kind of you know they do their job but certain things are inexpressible, they're ineffable and the spiritual experiences those kind of experiences are really difficult to describe But I can tell you how I feel. It feels like goosebumps go up on my arm. It feels like I get kind of a chill. I feel kind of an transcendent feeling, like a hopeful feeling. Sigmund Freud called it an oceanic feeling, which he never was able to sustain. He called religion, I called it a few things, but he called it the persistence of a delusion that I do not understand. so thank God that Sigmund Freud is not our progenitor like thanks, thank God we didn't stem our, thank god we got Carl Jung right who knew like there was some spirituality in the world. He's got carved over his house this saying Carl Jung it says and the translation is rough from old German but it basically says bidden or unbidden God exists called on or not you know So I feel like I'm always connected to my higher power, but sometimes I just don't feel it. And I want to feel it, you know? I mean, I wantto feel it." It's interesting what it says after what I just read about the God of Reason. It says something really interesting. It talks about love and feelings being the tissue out of which our lives are constructed. It says that these feelings, these loves, determine the course of our existence. And then it goes on to say, if I'm capable of feeling this love, then I'm able to feel this love. If I'm incapable of having faith in a higher power. It's kind of, it's a bit of a leap, right? I mean, it'S kind of a, you know, but sometimes Bill's arguments are a little tense, but he's really trying, right, he's trying to like connect the dots and get you to, and convince you that, you know. Like in the tradition of a lot of great philosophers, you know I read philosophy at school and in graduate school and all great philosophers will at some point make an argument for or against God. And this is like one of the better ones. You know, Bill was a genius. You know this is a profound book. I've got a guy in step two we just finished someone that I'm sponsoring who asked me to take him through the step process. And we ended up he did his considerations and he answered his questions and you know these systems we developed they're sort of useful to move you towards positioning, but they're really not it. You know? Self-reliance this, consideration that, consideration the other, and in the end it's the same damn thing. Soul on its only path trying to get free. Get a sponsor. Go through the steps. Go to your meetings. Pass on what you've been given. At its core, it's very simple. You know, I mean, I feel like the deeper you go into the process, the better. The more animated you are with the spirit of recovery and that passion. I love the passion of people that are on fire with the program. I'd rather have a guy that's like two years sober with his step guide booklet and he's on fire. I'd rather have him for a sponsor than some guy that has been around 20 years just kind of dead inside like I was a few years ago you know and in some ways still am you know um sorry just trying to be real it's a shame you know maybe at some point um so you know i used to have an ex rebecca and she would say we'd be lost like we'd been in new york or somewhere we'd feel like physically lost or we'd be lost I'd be lost in the relationship or in my life and when we'd be physically lost somewhere I remember we were in like this freaking cornfield maze or something and she goes she go I don't know what it was but it was like the worst advice she goes why don't you try to feel your way through it and I'm like she's like why don'T you feel your way though it for us and help us find our way out and I'M like and I felt my way through it it took a lot of patience and it took a lot of tapping into intuition and it took shutting off my mind and I felt my way through it and I remember she said see and I went oh okay alright I mean um I'll say this tonight in the you know in the meditation class so it's a little spoiler alert but I I think you know my conception is that I live in a thinking world but I actually live in a feeling world and my feelings are kind of a super power if I can tap in and if you catch someone at a moment of truth or a moment of vulnerability hopefully in the first step they're open to receiving the gift they're getting choked out and if You can point out what's going to happen as they're choked out and share from your own experience and give them like uh you know there's a great you know christmas carol or it's called a bunch of different things dickens you know the ghost of christmas past and it's a Great it's Called It's a Wonderful Life that's a remake because this is what your life's going to be like if if or else our book says adopt a spiritual way of life or else or else it's A Wonderful Life you see what happens if he does what he's thinking about doing. And so the usefulness of sponsorship and the profound wisdom and the legacy in AA and how powerful it is, is that I can foster an attitude in somebody. I can foster a good attitude. And our book talks about it. It talks about being willing to search deep within. Willing to lay aside prejudice. WillING to be honest. and that's some of our job a little bit, right? We've got to bear. You guys, you would bear testimony to me when I was in a place, Claire Detox Center. I was coming off a three or four day binge which is really coming off a two month super binge which is coming off kind of a 10 month off and on binge which is like a 10 or 12 year. Anyway, I was someone who drank a lot and when I would start drinking I just didn't want to stop. and then I've forgotten a bunch of things like I was sharing at a meeting a few months ago just like an online meeting and something popped in my head and I'm like oh snap I forgot that I lived on the Bowery in New York City when I was 25 in a flop house it was for dead end drunks it was $8 a night I would try to do what I could to get the money for that night but the alcohol came first there were some nights I didn't have the money and I would trying to sneak into the flop house I was like 24 25 years old you know so it's like it was kind of a rough and it took a few more years before I I got the help I that I needed um and AA and God kind of met me where I was at at each step of that um I was beat up enough where I guess you know I the program meant me where I was that when I needed just meetings it meant me with just meetings I was in a group that had a lot of structure and that seemed to be helpful to me um then i you know my sponsor moved over to this big book group and it seemed like that was kind of what i was hungry for something deeper a deeper experience and uh it rendered me more useful to sponsoring people because in this other group with a lot structure i didn't have really a lot of tools with sponsoring people it was like it kind of relied on the group i like just go you know there's 90 and 97 commitments a week wear your suit do like there was a lot of outside structure that was really good and behavior modification which was great in the first couple months but then it was like oh underneath like i'm still seething with anger and resentment i'm Still completely untreated nothing is shifting deep inside but the value of that it was Like repeating your first year over and over and Over in that group and what was was really helpful was my sponsor was didn't seem to have he wasn't afraid of anything thing. He was a British guy. It was a real attraction to me. He just didn't seem to have any fear, you know what I mean? Physical confrontation and just business people and all this stuff. And he was very successful and wealthy, but underneath, very angry, I got to see, and it got to be too much. But he was okay with directly and consistently confronting me and making fun of me. So that was part of the kind of dynamic of that group was to break the ego of the alcoholic, which for a lot of people I think would be horrible, which is abusive. But for me it kind of was helpful. I've got to be honest. I was coming in with a lot. I remember him saying, I run into this long diatribe about the thing is these old timers and everything and he's like, you can't think your way out of a paper bag. I don't want to hear what you think about the program. And then he goes, your brain is broken and he poked me in the chest, you know. And it was useful. It was a useful first step awareness. It was like, huh? I'm smart. It's like, no. Dude, you're a drunk. You're a homeless drunk living in a rehab, a county-funded rehab. Like that, all that stuff is over. Colleges and knowledges and cabbages and kings and all the crazy bullshit and travel you were doing, that's over now. you've hit a bottom like you're all out you're in a choke hold are you going to tap out or not and some of us you know it's it's there's an interesting line in the book that some people feel like it's humorous it says uh you know making the choice between living on a spiritual basis or finding us or or whatever or are it's a difficult choice to make right have you guys read that i'm sorry i'm terrible with quoting that and it's basically saying you know either live on a spiritual basis or die an alcoholic death sometimes these are difficult choices to make and and you can see it if you go to these courts and things where people are like the judge is like look i'm either giving you six months in jail or you've got meetings for 30 days like give me the jail time your honor like i'm not i'm Not fucking you know yeah like what you know What? I tried that already. No, they got to get tested and all that. No, no. I've decided I'm going to party. They have Pruno in jail. You know, the choices that we're being driven by something bigger than us. I remember at one point when I was living in Los Angeles, it was either buy a car or continue to drink. And I chose to continue to drink. I thought I was making choices but my volition was compromised. I was a parasite in my brain that was actually directing. It would direct where I lived, who I lived with, where I would work. Made a lot of choices for me. There wasn't a lot of free will in that. It felt like it, but my will had been hijacked. So, you know, free will and God's will maybe are a little more aligned. There's a possibility of them being aligned. I want to quote something I read just recently and it really hit me just doing some four step work with people and different step work and it's just an ancient it's a Chinese proverb and it says he who blames others has a long way to go on his path. He who blams himself is halfway there. He who claims no one has arrived. Whose fault is it if your sponsee drinks? Whose fault is it if someone is late for work and they don't use their turn signal and they come in front of you because they're driven by fear are you going to punish them are you gonna punish them by giving them the finger are you're gonna cut back in front at them as they used to say in England get your own back revenge like a lot of the movies that are out very satisfying right there's a bad guy and then the good guy is gonna get revenge and we're all like yes it's a profound misunderstanding of how the world works right especially for alcoholics very dangerous very toxic no one is to blame maybe they couldn't have done anything else maybe they were so driven by fear of being late for work that they couldnít have done anything else but cut me off so I have an opportunity in these steps to enter the forgiven world a world where I donít have anything against anybody and nobodyís got anything against me because I've gone through my step process and I've seen the truth I've see the truth that no one is to blame and so there's no more punishment there's not more punishment of me or other people I'm not going to play God anymore right um the world that I see from alcoholism holds nothing that I really want there's a world beyond that world that has everything that I want and I can't really see it I can see the faint outlines of it and it's there but I've got to give up candy to get gold that's the trade candy tastes good it's available, it's cheap gold is I don't know. It's out there somewhere. It's in this other world. Our book calls it the world of the spirit. And it talks about entering the world of the Spirit. It talks a little later about we've entered a new and wonderful world where we can be happy regardless of our outside circumstance. What a profound promise. What are they talking about? What is this new and wonderful world? How do I get there? I get there through step two. that's a portal that's a timeless entryway right I can come to believe that a power greater than me can restore me to sanity and naturally it melds and flows into step three and I was you know thinking this morning I do I don't always do this but lately I've been writing out my 11th step every night just you know kind of a daily the nightly review kind of thing you know where was I self dishonest really afraid And what could I have done better? That's a long one, right? And then what corrective measures could I take? Which I get from meditation. I kind of get information sometimes. They call it two-way prayer now. There's all these different names. So basically you get quiet enough and you start to get intuitive thoughts. Sometimes it's good to record those because the clamors of the world will wash those away pretty quick. So you record them and I add them to my measures. And I was talking to Teresa about this. Then that goes on the to-do list for the next day. upon awakening i'm looking at that that's got to be part of the to-do list you know that's like an important part let's try to do these these measures so um that's an affirmation of steps two and three to me it's an affirmation of yes i believe i can be restored to sanity and yes imperfectly i have made this decision to turn my will in my life over to the care Important distinction over to the care of God. Will and life over to God is kind of like, well, I'll pick the prayers I say when I say them, how I pray, what I do. But if you're at a meeting, you can't control that much of what's going on. A meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous is under the care or not. It's under the power of God and I have in 28 years never wasted a single minute at an AA meeting in my life. There's no such thing as a bad AA meeting. There's meetings where there's an opportunity to be helpful. There's meetings where there's opportunity to testify. There are meetings where there are opportunities to shine your light and to show love and to show tolerance, you know, and to show understanding and to have a real consideration of other people's viewpoints. What did you the 12 and 12 steps in the 12? What do you mean by that? You know, I want to really maybe I can learn something, you Know, here I want to have an attitude of of being a student you know not a not a teacher you know no teaching no preaching I used to say at my meeting shut up and share you know. No teaching, no preaching, no reading, shut up, and share. You know just be real just be honest as you can as as courageous as you could be and being honest and that opens the kind of portal you know there's there's two things you know sometimes I hear from people they say oh can you like work with me and one is it's kind of the kiss of death. It's a variation on this. I know what I need to do. I'm just not doing it. Dead man walking. Right no way out. A good response sometimes that's more helpful is I don't know what to do and I need help. That's a good starting point. That'S a good entryway for step two. I don't know what to do, and I need help. Can you please help? Willingness, honesty, openness. All you need. Allyou'll ever need. But they're indispensable. I've got to summon some of that. You know, it's fashionable nowadays in outside of AA circles to say, you know, the opposite of addiction is not recovery, it''s connection, you And my connector is broken. I don't have a connector. I don' t know what they're talking about. I'm driven by self. I want what I want, okay? I don''t have time for connecting. That sounds like a lot of work. That sounds... It sounds risky. What if I get embarrassed or hurt? You know, what if it doesn' t work? What if we don' T have a connection? What if you get exposed? You know? I remember doing my list of fears, which was 14 pages long when I first won. And alongside the fears of all the self-esteem fears, what I was worried about happening to me, were the pride fears, which is how I was being perceived by people. I'm not just afraid of going broke. I'm more afraid of everybody knowing that I've gone broke. It's like, oh man, who does that? What kind of hot burning ball of ego and fear goes through life more worried about what people think about what's happening to you instead of what's actually happening. You know? So my perception is distorted. You know, one of the things I got and I heard this before is when I saw that poster in New Mexico I kind of went like, okay and I get this with the steps too tension and work is who I think I'm supposed to be but relaxation is who I really am like my book tells me we don't struggle for an answer we relax every morning I read that and I need to read it every morning right I need to be reminded I got this enjoy your day I've got it handled right that was such a powerful message to me I was looking at it for a while like how could I have never in 10 meet 10 12 years of going to meetings all the time never seen this before it came at the right time. It turns out, you know, my higher powers timing is pretty good. This is what's needed right now. Matt, how are we doing on time? Good, okay. I could go on and on and on and on and on and on. Give me just a minute, you guys. I'm kind of fumbling from my So, I would say that you get one person who's in line with their source, who's an alignment with their sources. Fully in alignment can change the whole world. Can change the entire face of the planet, right? That's happened a couple of times, right, in human history. You get a little bit in alignment with your source, like 1 tenth of 1%, and you can sponsor half the people in the freaking program effectively. Take people that are stumbling wet drunks, as I've been lucky enough to do, and take them through the process and watch them go on and sponsor people and go into productive lives. Like, I didn't have the confidence to do that before. I still don't. I need to access something bigger than me, right? I need a hitherto untapped source of power, our book says. An untapping source of powers. Maybe, that's an interesting passage in step two. It says God is everything or God is nothing. What is our choice to be? There's no admixture of evil in my perception of God. Right? There's not admipture of evil if God is every thing. There's what I used to call no good nicks out there trying to get me. Or trying to undermine the world. There's just sick people that are driven by self. I used to think of it, and this is an original thought for me, because I grew up in New Jersey, and me and my brother were kind of no-goodniks a little bit. There were these grasshoppers in the backyard in New jersey, and kids do this sometimes. We'd get a jar, a big jar, and we'd put a couple grasshopper in there, we'd close it, and we would shake the jar to see if they would fight each other. and a lot of times they would and you could see them like hey stop what are you doing okay you know what but what's going on is that I'm shaking the jar the jar is being shaken all of us are grasshoppers in that thing and when someone bumps up against you it may be they're being propelled by something else that's not them they didn't wake up that morning with the intention to harm you maybe they're being driven if that's true could the right approach is it possible it could be always and everywhere giving everyone a break let everyone off the hook no more punishment, you all get a break no one is to blame that's how you can arrive but that's quite a leap it's not easy to jump to that it's like what do you mean because a lot of us have triggers, we have trauma we have things that can easily be kind of activated that might not have that much to do with what's going on now so that's why I believe in a deep and profound process through step four. It's one of the reasons I'm really grateful to have found FOTS, Fellowship of the Spirit. Because a lot of people in this group, they don't mess around with step four. We're taking a deep dive. We are going back. We are coming back to your childhood. We are gonna see what's there. We are Gonna make sure that you can either treat your trauma or you are gonna transmit it. Beware the naked man who tries to give you the shirt off his back. Beware of the person who wants to sponsor you that is obviously profoundly spiritually sick. and wants to control you and hasn't done their Al-Anon work or whatever. So I'm sorry, I kind of jump all over the place with this stuff. One of the things in seeing that higher power as an ultimate source is it really simplifies life in a way. Your decisions get easier. Take my fear away and direct my attention to what you have me be because in that being, in that transformed state, the doing is easier. The doing becomes guided by intuition. The doing is filtered through spiritual principles. And you're like, should I keep the money or should I give it back? You know, some of us have an overactive conscience, but other people who've been deprived, and I remember I went through this with my brother who had a wretched, horrible childhood. He would almost always take the money. You know what I mean? Because he's like, you know what? I've had a rough time. No one ever gave me a break. This is God giving me a brake. like to just forget but if you're really living by spiritual principles you kind of like a lot of times you you know maybe reluctantly give the money back well that's not the best example but i mean if money is an energy and if uh love is an energi then maybe you know i love giving and receiving love and maybe i can love giving and receiving money out to causes I believe in and receive it, you know, as part of an alignment with God. This money is going to be used to serve you, God. I'm not going to buy candy. I'm holding out for gold. I see the faint outlines of this world they're telling me about. I've touched the world of the spirit. Once you've touched the infinite even for a second, you don't come back. Not the same, right? So that's why, you know, if you can find someone who has some light, who's worked this program, you can have a profound inner transformation. And that inner transformation, when I heal spiritually, a book tells me, you kind of straighten out physically and mentally. You know, I'm grateful to have recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body. Spiritually, you Know What I Mean? I have a daily reprieve. That's what I have. and it's based on my maintenance. So you can feel people. Sometimes people call me, they're like, I feel like I missed something. Like I missed the God part or, you know, like I miss, I feel disconnected. Like something's wrong. And I'm like, yeah, you're probably right on about that, brother. It's a fair good chance that that, what are you doing? Are you sponsoring anyone? No. You go to meetings, not anymore. They're just jerks over there. You know, I can't, how's it going at work? Not great. you know my boss I found out he's you know what I mean he's no good Nick like I don't like him and then you find out little by little they're bedeviled they're in the bedevilments oh gosh right this world I see that I perceive holds nothing for me in terms of healing the bedivilments it's the other world the spirit world that's beyond that can heal those kind of deep profound soul sickness having trouble with personal relations it happens to be in step two sorry you know, the bedevilments bedeviled that's more important than finding out about science or the future applying spiritual principles to my human life Fred's discovery I call it Fred, he's like one of the stories in here he's, you know basically he says I discovered that spiritual principles would solve all my problems like, yay, Fred, you know, way to go. You know? I mean, yes, yeah, exactly. That's what you kind of discover after a while. Little by little, you get worn down into a full step two that extends throughout your life, right? Oh, this is going to restore me to sanity, like, period. Yes, around my addiction to alcohol and or drugs and or, you now, process addictions, whatever it is. But more importantly, it's going to address the real problem, not the symptom of the problem. The real problem our book calls self. Self. That's what defeated us, you know, and you could call it sort of ego or self or, you Know, whatever you like, but they're giving me a really good antidote. They're beating me over the head with it long, loud, and often they're telling me the solution but it's interesting you can read this book from the perspective of this world and miss it and it just goes over your head you get a little taste of living in you know in communion with spirit and trying humbly trying and you start to see the little gems that are sprinkled in here and then your hair stands up and then you're like whoa dude that's wow man that's you know I want some of that. That's, that's some good stuff. I want, I want the good stuff, you know? You know, I've heard this said before, it's kind of funny, but as an addict and alcoholic, I want the Good Shit. You know what I mean? Find me the good stuff, not stepped on or whatever. I want the good stuff and so, you know, like, this, you guys, FOTS, like this is the good shit. Like you guys are in it. If you're on the periphery of FOTs and you're dipping your toe in it and you're curious, consider an option. Consider an option, I invite you to consider an option because this made a huge difference for me and that was to be all in. That was to go all in with your whole heart and see if being whole hearted gives you some traction that dipping your toe in before didn't. There are circles of participation in AA. I would call one a visitor, someone who pops into a meeting once in a while may or may not put a dollar in the basket they might skip two different meetings probably won't share if they do they might share and then leave right after their share won't be germane to anything but their problems then there's I would say you know a member member of a they come to the meeting regularly they probably put a dollar or two in the basketball share they might try to help people here and there probably not sponsoring a lot of people you know there's another level after that right where you're moving towards some level of of taking responsibility for your group and for your recovery you know you're there you have a position there like a commitment you sponsor people in the group you regularly put money in the basket if you have it because you understand and the principle of spiritual tithing. You are willing to talk to newcomers there. And then there's a next level, the next level I would call kind of a high-level stewardship. That's the person if you're locked out of the building that you call. In the world concepts they call it a point of responsibility. He's not the secretary of the meeting, but it's someone who's there, who's the guy or the gal. You call them. That's the sweet spot of Alcoholics Anonymous, that level of participation along with a deep and effective step work practice and a sponsorship practice. You know, you can kind of say these things and try to testify or whatever. I've had this experience trying to explain AA to people who are outside of our program, and it's tricky. It is tricky. They still feel as though you're employing your willpower to stop. I was at an event not too long ago called Meeting of the Masters. That's what it's called. It's all these people from all these different spiritual disciplines, and I was asked to be the 12-step representative, right? And I'm there, and we're all, you know, this big circle of frickin', you know whatever you call it. And I was so grateful for AA because of our traditions, because of the system that we have here and the general undercurrent that we reflect back to and pull back to of humility and of service. Most of the people there were either promoting their products or were just gigantic ego cash grabbers or something. I don't even know how to describe people like this. I was shocked. I was like, this is spirituality? Here's my book and I'm selling it and I am one of the best writers that has ever... I am like, whoa, whoa. There is no tradition of any of our guiding, beautiful, really important traditions. To me, even though I have been in a lot of these other spiritual groups, the practical spirituality we have here is profound. The fact that we have an ultimate litmus test Like, did God remove your problem or not? Yes, my problem, my main problem, my drinking and using was removed. Okay, so maybe that's some evidence that something has shifted in your consciousness. But do you want to still? Are you craving it? No. No, it's gone, like the desire to do it. But didn't you say you were using every day? Yeah. And didn't You say when you didn't use a drink you were craving it and you're restless, irritable and discontent? Yes. And you're saying it's gone? Yes. That sounds like a miracle of healing. That sounds like a miracle of healing It sounds that way because that's what it is How are we doing? Ten minutes Okay, great You know this was a last minute request for me to talk so I'm just sort of riffing like I didn't really prepare too much So I hope this is useful to you guys. And I'm happy to share my experience with anyone. If you want a phone number or want to talk to me after or whatever, I'm Happy to do that. I mean, what was passed on to me was so beautiful. Someone else's 12-step really began my first step. And then really Wayne, my sponsor, what he did was put me in a chokehold from 10 different options. so that I got trapped in a way and so step two was an escape hatch it was like that was the tapping okay looks like this is the way to go you know and I did go in my first year or two to a lot of agnostic meetings and atheist meetings our group was called Rebellion Dogs that was the name of it and you know we're just like most of the group was just like railing against AA those people with their religion and you know they're so sick and I was like it was such a sick group you know what I mean and and it was like a it was a good fit for me you know because I was until until he caught up with me he like popped into that meeting he goes what the fuck is this meeting what are you doing and he's like he's not going to do it he's just like Wayne he's like you're coming with me to this group and I remember asking him to sponsor me and he He goes, he was stunned for a second. He goes I have to ask my sponsor. So he did. He asked his sponsor and he goes alright here's what you're going to do. And I remember once he took, which was rude really. I was at this big meeting with like a thousand. I had my to-do list. He goes what are you doing? Let me see that. He takes the to-to list. He crosses everything out and he says go to a meeting. Pray. Meditate. Call your sponsor. like it was like you know my priorities were there's no to-do list without a spiritual connection for sober alcoholics for a lot of us the to-go list is not is not always that effective and it and it uh kind of runs in a circle sometimes you'll notice you're not getting the stuff done what's going on self you know cunning rascal whatever self-reliance or whatever you want to put it is still kind of running the show and some of us you know have our second recovery or second surrender. I mean, you hear it a lot from people. It's a common trope in AA shares. It's like, I was so sick my first 10 years but then this happened and now I really understand AA and it's like alright man but the whole time your higher power was there and was guiding you and when you were ready, you were already. When you hit a second bottom, you were really. And AA was there to catch you and God was there to catch him. you know I mean it's an imperfect uh we're imperfect people it's a practical but kind of imperfect program there's a saying I don't know if it's Khalil Gilbran or one of these great like Middle Eastern Sufi poets and he says uh there used to be a saying well you just got to meet God halfway and he had an interesting response this was like in the 1200s or 1100s a long time ago he wrote when a man takes one step towards God God takes more steps towards him than there are sands in all the oceans of time. One step I'm powerless over alcohol and my life is unmanageable and then I came to believe is a byproduct of step one. You can take someone line by line through Bill's argument about why there's a God and we agnostics and all that stuff but I remember asking this guy I'm working with David and saying how do you feel and that's when we started to get down to something real this is how I feel when I read this and when I wrote this down this is what I felt and I kind of feel I feel confused still but I feel more hopeful this is someone who slipped a few times after considerable lengths of sobriety and so got it that I probably can't safely drink and use, I should go to my meetings I should do this, I shouldn't do that but he missed the God part he missed spiritual part which is sort of baffling to me but not really I was in an agnostic atheist group my first year so it's not that hard to miss the spiritual part you know so ideally we're capable of being guided by intuition We're capable of tapping into this inspiration. I believe we're born to do it. I believe there's a part of us that's born to tap in deeply and effectively to the sort of unknown source. And we're capable of doing that. And alcoholics, thank you, are uniquely capable of it and suited for it because there's been some pre-paving happening. We've already been tenderized a little bit or made a little bit more, you know what I mean? Like a little bit more willing by the self-imposed crisis we can't evade. One of the measures of spiritual maturity of a spiritual group is how they treat their heretics. The measure of the spiritual maturity of a group can be seen in how they treatment their heretics. So it's a very interesting concept. And if you are, like me, something of a heretic, or if you have heretics in your life, may be conscious of this principle that AA is a wide net and that we are people of love and compassion. That there's no ax to grind, no lecture to be endured, nothing but a sincere desire to be friendly and to be helpful. Sometimes you can't understand what people are saying and you might not agree with them but if you're tuned in a little you can feel them. You can feel me. You can see them. You know what I mean? Right? You feeling me? you know, you can feel them. You can feel their energy is centered. And so, I mean, I'm telling myself this too, to be gracious and to be, you know... One of the things about immature spiritual groups is also characterized by a lack of humor, of self-deprecating humor. It's everything so serious. Everything's life and death. And you've got to... It's just to wear the program like a loose garment to consider just like you know what I mean because I joke around I'm kind of a goofy and not and I mean like a bad vibes goofy like not even that funny and stuff so so like you knows so so I'm you know I'm a goofball like on the on the chats and stuff like that and I you know when I say stuff that's it but I take the program actually very seriously and I take you know my brother overdosed and died last year at Venice Beach and he was staying with me. And I, like, I get it that this is life and death, but I also get it that there's a solution, that there is a solution available to me and that it's not that hard. I don't have to do it perfectly. I can take the one step towards my higher power. I kan have a little opening of willingness and humility. I kin ask someone for help. I mean, one of the most difficult things that I did was in my second sponsor asking him to sponsor me. He was a speaker and he knew everything and I'm just like, it was not easy and there was something that happened in me just in that moment of saying, could you please sponsor me? And I remember the answer because it took a long time for him to say anything. He got real quiet because like a lot of wise people, they consider something for a moment before they bark out an answer. A lot of us are a conditioned bundle of nerves and responses and we just react to anything, right? And so he just was quiet for a minute and I got nervous because back then I didn't like silences. Let's fill this gap. And I was like, look man, I'm not going to be in a lot OF trouble. I'll hardly call you. I already know a lot about the program. and then he goes the perfect response well I only work with desperate cases and I'm like crap I go alright I'm desperate he goes you won't do it you won' t do what I'm going to ask you to do I can tell you know what I mean he was working me oh really where do you see what I am going to do you don't know me I'll do it he's like well you're not gonna use you need to call me every day for 30 days we're going to meet once a week we're going to go through this book and I'm like yeah well I'm going to do it you know I'm just not just some like I'm you know so there's there's so much wisdom in our program I hope you find someone who who has what you want I hope you can tap into this universal God, universal God as a superposition of all potential good and actual good. It's an energy field. It is something we don't understand that is bigger than us. We have got an abstraction for it. It' s a word. And we've created some things around it that are useful, that help us understand. But it is available, it is here, it's here today, right now, I think. I wish all of you very well. I think we're going to try to take a few questions for a few minutes and I want to thank you so much for asking me to speak here. Okay, so we'll... I don't know, Matt. Do you facilitate that? I'll just... Why don't you stand there? Yeah, I'll juste... All right. If anybody has a question, please limit your participation to questions. Sorry. Or whatever you want. Go ahead. it's hard to hear you Sandra I'm so sorry can you go a little closer to the I'm Sandra, an alcoholic. Hi. Hi, Sandra. Theories of faith development say that if the person has been too traumatized... Can you hear me now? No. I mean, I can hear you. I'll repeat the question here. There is a faith development say that if you've been traumatized too much as a child, you may not be able to connect with what we would call a higher power. Or the higher power will be a reflection of that parent. Yeah. What do you think of that? I think it has a seed of truth. I think it's another obstacle, but in my perception and awareness and also my experience of working with trauma, I believe there's nothing that can't be healed or integrated. Not in the other world I was telling you about. I love the way you explain things. It really makes a lot of sense. Thank you. If I'm the new guy coming in and I have the willingness to continue with the work but I'm really struggling with God and Him and I've got all the characteristics of the agnostic atheist struggling with the way the big book sounds kind of Christian or religious or whatever. What do you say to me? I would just say the book tells me to choose my own conception of God, and I think that's a and then it says however inadequate which is really a snide little remark. I mean it's supposing that my conception of God is going to be smaller than actual God, which is probably true, you know what I mean? God's like a really big. So yeah, I always allow people, let's really take the book at its word and say, why don't you choose your own conception of God? And really work through all the steps with that, however inadequate it is. I don't say that. But let's start with that. It's a good starting point. Choose your own perception. We can do it together if you want. Or maybe you don't really have to figure it out. Maybe you can just have a God that you don'T understand. I have a real quick quote from a poem I like it's by D.H. Lawrence and it says I'm in the hands of an unknown God who is breaking me down to oblivion so that I can be raised up as a new man on a new morning I don't have to understand God or figure it out for it to help me and heal me I just have to be willing I hope that answers your question that's about it let's give John another big round of applause thank you thank you John jumped in last minute we had to rearrange and ask him we asked him yesterday morning to speak and as you can see that's why we're going to break for lunch lunch is at 12 o'clock in the dining room if you're like me I was trying to write down all the wonders of wisdom that John gave us but I don't need to because Rusty's taping this whole thing recording this whole thing so you can sign up right now and at the end of tomorrow he'll have a flash drive with the audio files on it for you so don't forget to see Rusty and Carolyn before you leave today