Katie P. at the 22nd Spring Conf – 2026

Hi, y'all. I'm Katie from Austin, Texas, alcoholic. My God, the great state of Texas. One tip, Texas is not the South. Strong misunderstanding. See, the South is east of Texas, Texas is just Texas. I am proud of my state, I hope you're proud of your state. state. See? Don't be giving me a hard time about me loving my state. I've been sober since October 28th of 1984, and for that it's just a true blessing, I'm telling you. Yeah. I'd be happy to take that. I'm 29 years sober, and I got sober when I was 26 years old. And I gotta tell you, you know, I didn't come in when I Was 16, not that there's anything against that. There was But I got sober at 26, and I've been sober almost 30 years. And I think I look pretty doggone good. It's amazing what happens when you quit putting poison in your body and you take an entirely different angle at life. And so life has been... I love what Matthew said. He said butterflies are not going to fly out of your butt. What a beautiful way to put it. Only we could appreciate that. And that's absolutely right. right. You know, I don't know where the delusion came in that made me believe that if I got sober, life was going to be great. It's a delusion. Nobody told me that. I just believed it. And when stuff came at me, I couldn't figure out why that was happening to me. Doesn't look like that's happening to Mary. Doesn'T look like that's happened into Jane. And it's so interesting. And as you hear the stories of all the speakers, you're going to get a completely different perspective of how life rolls out for everybody. Some people actually come into Alcoholics Anonymous and have very little tragedy ever happen to them, and some of us have more tragedy than we need. And so I'm very grateful for the committee for putting this together. Oh my God, Van and Harlan, do you love them? I'll tell you. It takes a couple of people in Alcoholics Anonymous to pull this kind of stuff off. Now they get a lot of help, Don't get me wrong. But there's ringleaders and Alcoholics Anonymous, and I am grateful for them. You bet. Let's hear it for every ringleader. You know, if you sponsor half the country, you'll find out that there's a lot of people who will say, you know, I'm moving to such-and-such, and they don't have any good meetings there. And to me, I am like, well, then start one. You know? Build the fellowship you crave. If you are not digging what you are seeing, go build the fellowship your crave. You know, take that responsibility. Absolutely. And it's really amazing because, you know, when I talked with Zan and Harlan, I immediately knew that they were a Charlie and Katie. And one of the things is Charlie was always the camp coordinator in Alcoholics Anonymous. I mean, well, we were – I was 26, he was 28, my husband was 30. We were young people in Alcoholic Anonymous, yeah. We are now the old-timers. But I think we're making it look pretty good. Right, Eileen? By God. I want a set of those glasses, that's for sure. I've got a couple of glasses up here. You tell me which ones you think are cuter. That's got one vote. The other ones? Oh, no, these? Okay, I'm leaving them on then. I can't see y'all, but that doesn't matter. It's all about looking cute. You know, so Charlie was the ringleader. or he was the one who got us to go to the slip and slide and got volleyball and got, you know, sober bowling. I mean, I could not imagine having fun sober. And neither can the new guy today. It's our responsibility to show them how to have fun and not just in the hour of the meeting. You've got to get them in the car. You know, who wants to take the new guide to coffee? Nobody. They don't. Oh, God. We're going to have to hear all about him. Come on, get in the car. You know, it's interesting. But then, so back to Zan and Harlan. Okay, so we're doing a lot of e-mail. They like to e- mail. I'm not a big e- mailer. I'm nicht ein großer E-Mailer. I'm niet ein großer Textor. Ich bin kein großer Computerperson. Und so sie warten zwei oder drei Tage, bevor sie mich überhaupt hören. Oh ja, es ist nicht gut. So ich bin im Flughafen und ich bin nicht ganz sicher, wer uns am Flughafenspielen aufnimmt, wenn wir hier kommen. And so I'm at the Austin airport, and Zan had called, but I thought she said her name was something else. So I wasn't quite sure if I was calling the host back or who. So I was just going to say, you know, hi. And soI call, and I said, hi, and she goes, why do you always have to be so sweet? And I said., well, I was really quite a bitch at the counter just a minute ago. You missed it. Because, I mean, I'm in an airport. I am not always the nicest person in an airport. And then all of a sudden, Zan realized it was me. And then she was terribly embarrassed. And I thought, I missed the whole point. Do you know what I mean? She is delightful. She picked us up at the airport. It was wonderful. And then when I met Harlan, oh my God, are we cut from the same cloth. Let me tell you, we'd be the ones sitting in the home group AA meeting like this. Look at them over there. You see what they're saying? Oh, for God's sakes. You know what i mean? We are pot stirrers. You got that person in Elka? Shooting spit wads at somebody. Oh, I just fell in love with him right away. He said he knows I'm a kind of gal that likes to take order, right? So I am, and Matthew's line was going to interrupt the comedian, right, you know, keeping these things on task, you've got to get the stuff moving. And Harlan said, I need to get this receiving line out of here. I said, well, you know what, get them over there. And he looks at me and he goes, can you do that? it? And I went, yes, I can. Oh my God. I love it. It's like everybody follow me. Keep walking, keep walking, keep walking right through here, right through there. Everybody just head on down there. Yeah. Just keep walking. No stopping. No questions. Just move, move, remove, move. Some little girl, she may be in here. She goes, what are they all doing? I said, it's a receiving line. She says, for what? I asked her to thank the speaker and she goes, oh. I said, you need to stand in that line and thank that speaker. Bye, golly. I don't know if she did it. She's in here right now. I know she is going, oh, God. I remember what you look like. See, I'm a take-charge kind of gal. It's in my DNA. And then I suffer from alcoholism, so I am an extreme example of self-will run riot, though she usually doesn't think so. It was interesting, we were speaking with Sandy Beach, one of my big heroes. And God, I love Sandy Beach so much. And we're speaking with him in Midland, Texas, of all places. And I don't know if you've ever been there, but it's ugly. And I wonder why anybody would want to live in Midlands, Texas. But we're sitting there and Gary Kluxdahl is speaking, right? Former trustee, love Gary Klutzdahl. Looks like a big old gorilla up here. and uh sandy goes oh katie i'm not feeling very good and i said sandy are you okay i mean he's all white and he takes three breaths and then just kind of collapses on me and i thought oh my god sandy beach just died right on me you know that was my first thought is oh my God and I look at a guy and I go call 911 and then I look At Charlie and I Go get somebody and Charlie gets up we're We're trying not to cause any ruckus, you know. And then all of a sudden we clearly see we've got to lay Sandy down. He's still alive. You know, Gary stops talking and the room is just quiet. And we lay Sandy Down and in comes, now we are in Midland, Texas. In comes this 21-year-old EMT. I'm not liking what I'm seeing. You know what I mean? He's got no gurney and I'm a take charge kind of gal. And he comes in, I'm thinking, oh, that's not good at all. And he looks at Sandy, starts asking him some questions. Sandy's kind of a little coherent. And the guy decides to sit him up, the EMT. And I leaned forward. I got my little speaker ribbon on, leaned forward, and I said, oh, that's not a good idea. And he goes, see, he has no idea the trouble he's in right now. That is not a Good – a hand in my face is fighting words, you know what I mean? And I thought, you know what, Katie? I had a moment of clarity where it was like, you've got your speaker ribbon on. You better behave. Just behave. Just step back. So I stepped back and all of a sudden he set Sandy up and Sandy started shaking and he sat him back down. And I leaned forward. I said, that's it. Get a gurney now. For God's sakes, he's 80 plus years old. What are you going to check him out before you put him in the ambulance? So we get ready to get. He goes, I'll get the gurney. Gets the gurnee. Gets ready to put him into the ambulance. And I'm going to step up in the ambulance with him, right? I am on my way to the hospital. And he just stops me like this. He goes, ma'am, you can't go back there. And I said, I'm going to the hospital. And he says, only family. And I say, I am his girlfriend. And I swear, this 21-year-old kid goes like this, really? Happen to like older men, okay? So he lets me ride in the front with him. And we get to the hospital, and they start asking me questions. I go, heck, I didn't know Sandy's name. It isn't really Sandy. Yeah, that's a problem. That's a problema when they're typing all that stuff in the computer, and you're supposed to. I told them, I said, we just started dating not too long ago. And they said, his birth date? I thought, oh. I leaned over. I said、Sandy, this story is falling apart quickly. clean. But long story short, I said to Sandy, I said, Sandy, listen, I am a take charge kind of gal. And if you'll let me, I'll run the show. But if you don't want me to, I won't. And he said, I want you to. And it was like, thank you, Jesus. Oh my God. And so, you know, because they wanted to perform surgery that we're in Midland, Texas. They are not touching my Sandy Beach. Are Are you with me on that? They're not touching. They're going to medevac him to somewhere like Houston or Dallas, but we ain't having surgery in Midland. And in walks an Asian doctor, nothing against him being Asian. It was a little awkward in Midlands, Texas, to have an Asian walk in. And so long story short, the doctor was giving me nothing. I was trying to get Sandy's cardiologist on the phone, blah, blah. blah, blah, but the truth of the matter is I went out there and a nurse really took a liking to me and we have a way with people. Harlan just said it about the fire marshal. You know you guys were able with the fire marshall to stay here and we do that. It's not always good but we do do it and so I started rubbing her shoulder and I said I need for you to look into his records and she She goes, oh, ma'am, I can't do that. I said, I know. I know, and I swear this is what she's going. I'm not supposed to be doing this. That's called self-will run riot, people, but we got Sandy out of there and able to speak, and it was absolutely sensational, yeah, and I swear to God he came alive, and he went back to his cardiologist, and he needed a pacemaker. You know what I mean? Thank God he didn't get one put in in Midland, Texas. I got off on that tangent because I love Zan and Harlan. I love what they do. I love the direction that they go. And thank God this thing is alive and well with all the help they get. I'm not. Yeah. So I love that. Love that. Loved that. Oh, Eileen. Oh my God. Eileen and I, Thelma and Louise. Could you see us together? And we're about about seven years apart in age, we could drive a car off a cliff and enjoy it. No doubt about it. Great message of hope. I loved it. She's the timekeeper. She made that clear. She went 50 minutes so there's 10 minutes out there for anybody to take. I'm taking them. That's how I'll justify that one. My husband did a spectacular job. He does the best first first step I've ever heard. I'm crazy in love with him. I love my husband. I am pissed off at him right now, but we won't get into that. Although I could do a tenth step with a large group of people right now. And Lowell, you're not too far behind him. And I love Pat. Iam crazy about Pat. Just everything about you Pat, I just love you and the fact that your alcoholic is still drinking makes me want to go slap the crap out of him. But other than that, yeah, I'll do it and I will do it when I get home. Matthew's story is just absolutely unbelievable. And I love, yeah. I loved everything Matthew said. I too share the same belief that he does. You know, I love I personally love that we don't need to be politically correct. I don't like political correctness. I really don't. I'm I'm telling you, I think that every kid wins is crazy. Every kid wins, so when you get out there in life and you get fired, suck it up, okay? I just am not a big fan of politically correct, and so I think reality is reality, and the world is a tough place out there. It's wonderful, and it's also tough. Don't even get me started. And then everybody's going to get an opportunity to hear Lori speak, And Lori and I have had the privilege of speaking together, and she's just a doll, just an absolute doll. She's got a great story. And then Father Tom, we just spoke together in Cedar Rapids. I feel like I should call you Brother Tom. I don't know why. I just want to be brother and sister here, you know. Tom's story is amazing, and definitely you don't want to miss it. I know you won't. And then Rich and Lauren, I just am crazy about Rich and Laura. I swear we just spent time in Puerto Vallarta together, and they are wonderful, wonderful people. people, and Rich speaks on Sunday, and they're expecting a baby in July, and just can't wait. Yeah, and have him tell you about names. It's really quite interesting when he starts talking about names, it's a, well, you're going to have to figure, you'll figure out based on your name where you're Going In Life, so if you're ever wondering where you'RE Going In life, just ask Rich, he'll fill you in on names. So let me get started. I got sober October 28th of 1984. My home group is the primary purpose group. We study the big book line by line, as Charlie said. There was a time in my life that would not have interested me at all. The big book, I wasn't ever against the bigbook. I wasn'T ever one of those people who went, oh, there's a big book thumper. And I'm not really quite sure what that term means. I guess it's got something to do with a Bible thumpper or whatever. But the truth of the matter is, is I just felt that the big big book of Alcoholics Anonymous was a little elementary. I just thought it was about drinking. It needed to be updated. I mean, come on, World War One. He was he saw some sort of tombstone that said one by air, two by water. You know, you're like whatever. And the Jay Walker. Really? Really? Really? And that's about it. I mean, when you do a pass through the book, I just found no interest in it at all. And today I can tell you guys that's not at all where I'm coming from and I'm not here to ever say anyone's doing it right, wrong or indifferent. You will hear my story and my story will share my experience of how I did do many things in Alcoholics Anonymous incorrect. Some people say there are no mistakes. Bullshit. Oh, yeah. There's a lot of people out there that have been hurt by my mistakes. I'm sure that they would see that a little differently. And so, yes, there are a lot of mistakes I think people can make. And I think, too, it's very challenging because when you share a message, this is my opinion and God knows we all have plenty of them behind the podium. We just have figured out how to dress them up nicely. My opinion is wherever you are is where you are. And if you want to go somewhere different, you get to go somewhere different. And If you like where you're are, you stay where you'are. It's all that. It''s all about me seeing what's available for me. And I'll tell you guys there's a... I have three beautiful grandchildren. Oh my God! Are grandkids God's do over or what? They love you right out of the gate. I mean it is fabulous. Seven, three, and two. And my seven-year-old just thinks I hung the moon. I mean, he's a little boy, and he just blitters when I come around. And when I get to keep him, he'll say, Graham, can I have a popsicle before dinner? I'm like, have three. Jeez, run with the scissors. I don't care. Watch SpongeBob all day. whatever a spongebob is you know uh you know the book says something fabulous this is the most satisfying years of our existence lie ahead i hope your life is a parade i hope you can look the world in the eye i hopeyou can have a conversation with any human being out there see one of the things that i know about that statement today is is i always thought that that the most satisfying years of my existence lied ahead, which meant once I got that job, once the mortgage was paid for, once I landed the guy, once I get this kid out of trouble, then it'll be good. And see, there is that delusion that I made up on my own, my own old ideas, that if I got sober, life got great. No. No, it doesn't. As a matter of fact, life is life. Life comes at you. Tragic things happen. Sometimes not so tragic. Sometimes it can be something as simple as an email that somebody sends you and they say some lovely things about you and then slap you at the last two lines. Pop! And the next thing you know, all day long, you're just thinking of those two lines See, that's the bondage of self today. And that's what I understand. The 12 steps are just trying to keep me unblocked. See, I get blocked very easily and I don't even know I'm blocked until everybody bugs me. you look at me what are you looking at yeah look at the bank account not enough money look at my body don't like the way it looks got a sponsee calling don't want to talk to her pain in the ass see and i don't know that's happening i just think i'm having a bad day book says i'm restless irritable and discontented actually says i maladjusted to life full flight from reality cannot differentiate the true from the false that's a problem and that's not just drinking see i always thought everything in the book was about me drinking so once i got sober i believed that i didn't have those problems anymore i believed i wasn't selfish and self-centered anymore. I mean, I'm a little bit egocentric. We have different words for it, but selfish and cell center. No, I am not stingy and conceited. I was voted most likable four years in a row in high school. How could I be selfish and so do you have any idea how hard that was? By the way, there was a lot of sucking up I had to do, man. And but, you know, it's interesting because one of the things that I can tell you is I missed it. I missed it, completely missed it and my life was doggone good. It was very good for many many years and here's what's tricky is I thought, you know, I don't, I do the line that Charlie stole from me on page 29 where it says each individual in his personal story describes in his own language from his own point of view the way he establishes relationship with God. I don't spend much time at all in my drinking and the only reason I don's is because I just don't want to. If you want to know the truth, I just do not want to spend time in my drink. I have got 29 years sober that I think is much more fascinating than my drinking. That was really difficult. My drinking is when I start I can't stop and I can' t stop starting. It really narrows it down that quickly. And I had a beautiful five-year-old daughter that I drug through hell. I know incomprehensible demoralization. Put that kid in places she had no business being in. I knew that was wrong, and I had to go get a lot of alcohol to just numb that pain of seeing those little eyes looking at me. It was terrible. Anybody that has kids knows it. Having children, I tell you, having kids and being alcoholic is terrible, isn't it? You know, they like to get up early. And they like to eat a lot. And they talk all the time. Oh, oh, oh. And that sweet little girl is turning 35 today. Isn't that something? Yeah. It's pretty doggone cool. She is, oh she's delightful. She is an untreated Al-Anon. I will say that. She's untreated Elanon and she worries about everything. It breaks my heart. And if she doesn't have something to worry about, she'll ask you and then she'll worry for you about whatever you need. And the disease of alcoholism runs deep in the family, runs very, very deep. I know we laugh, but it's pretty painful sometimes to watch. But I can tell you something here, guys, that I understand today that every answer to every problem I have is in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. It doesn't matter if you believe that or not. I believe that 100%. And Mark used to say, how do you know what you don't know? And that's not that I've done it all and I know. It's the fact that I have got the experience to say that is absolutely true. And that is the part that blows me away. My ego won't let any of that come in. I remember sitting in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous at 17 years hearing that message thinking, whatever, whatever, I know what AA has to offer me. See, that is what the ego sounds like. The ego sounds so prideful. And it can also sound really like this. You didn't do anything wrong. Oh, it's just a shapeshifter. If you've watched any True Blood, you know what that is. I swear, True Blood makes you just want to smoke a cigarette afterwards and it's like... I love these balcony seats. That's like royalty up there, isn't it? Uh-huh, yeah, hey, we can do the wave. But, you know, so these are the three things. When I find my way into Alcoholics Anonymous, I chase a boy into the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. He had six years sober. I didn't even know what that word meant. I chased him into the room of Alcoholic Anonymous I knew I had a problem long before I ever came into AA. I probably would not have made my way to AA for another five to ten years. Probably what would have gotten my attention is if Child Protective services had taken my daughter. That would have gotten my attention and I would have come into AA. And I can tell you the kind of gal I am, I'd have gotten myself knee deep with you boys. I know that. I'm the kindofgal who when you take away the drink, my sex powers rise up. And I loved it. Pat used it. Eileen used it, what we do as women guys is we're not necessarily going out there to get laid. We're just going outthere to use our sex powers to borrow your pickup truck so you'll help me move i need i need some manual labor you know what i mean and i mean i can get it going on remember i was voted most likable i can i mean you can just love me and you can have all the hopes in the world that we're going to roll into hey ain't happening you know and so that's kind of what we have a tendency to do we women lean on our sex powers Unfortunately, I think we're running the show. And I believe that. I believe it. I sponsor enough women to always bring it back to your sex powers. But that one always gets me in trouble, so that's my bandwagon on that. So I chase a boy into the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous and oh my God, the laughter in here. Wow! It was the first time I realized I hadn't laughed in a long, long time. That's pretty painful. And I'll tell you what, there's people in this room that aren't laughing today. You know, that's the best thing in the world you could do at an AA meeting. The next AA meeting you're at when everybody's laughing, you look around for the guy that's not laughing. That's the guy that needs your help. That's my primary purpose right there. You know see, I have a tendency to forget that when everything's just ha-ha. And so I'm just loving the laughter. I'm loving this guy. I were going to clearly get married, you know. He's six years sober. I'm ten minutes sober. A match made in heaven. Thank God nobody was the arbiter of my sex life. You know, thank God nobody would tell me to wait a year before I got into a relationship, wherever that came from. Whoever has done that, really? I haven't met them yet. To me, I think if you wait a year before you get into a relationship, what that makes you is horny. Yeah. Horny and you'll pick the next person. I'll take you. You know. I always tell my girls, how about you just go have a cup of coffee? You know, try. I got no problem with you dating at 30 days sober. I really don't. Just go have a cup OF coffee. You Know, I mean, am I going to really ask a sponsee to do something that I couldn't have done. It's a little thoughtless, don't you think? It's a little ridiculous actually. So I just say, just try not to roll in the hay. Can we do that? Or neck. I love that when you said neck. Oh God. I told Charlie one time, I said, you know what, let's just make out in public right here. Just And, you know, that's really hard to talk my husband into that. But, oh, my God, I just fell in love with the fellowship and everything. I was one of the lucky ones. There's people who come into AA and hate it right away. I loved it. I loved everything about it. And so Joe kept saying, oh Katie, this is all wrong. This is all right. wrong. I've got time and you don't have time. And it's just wrong. And this is me. No. Come to the light. You know, what is it on? Oh, brother, we're out though. The sirens, you know. And you boys are so easy. Oh my God. You're just like catching a fish. You just, you feel the tug and you just Just real slow. And then when you got the hook, you just go, whew! Got him! And, oh, I swear, I sware, I sweare, but, and so Joe kept saying, Katie, this is all wrong. No, it's not, no, it' s not, no, long story short, we were married for 20 years. Isn't that wonderful? Yeah. Thank God nobody was the arbiter of my sex life. And we had what I would consider a pretty amazing life. He taught me me everything about Alcoholics Anonymous, and wait till you hear this. Some people would say this was wrong. Well, it wasn't. It worked great. I sat at his feet while he read me the big book in the chair, and he read my the big books, and taught me about alcoholism. He taught me about integrity, dignity, honor, respect. I had a female sponsor. I mean, don't get me wrong, but I mean he just fed me and fed me. And I remember when I had about 10 years sober, He said, and he always had six years more than me. I got sober on his sobriety date. It was very special. And he said to me, he goes, you've passed me up. And he says that with sincerity. And I thought, I know. Let's just have a moment with that one. But here's the tricky thing. This is what happened. I thought AA was about drinking snacking and that when the obsession to drink left me, which was about 90 days, I really believe if you're going to have the educational variety of a spiritual awakening, the obsession will leave you in about 90 Days. That's been my experience. That, you know, my observation is sponsoring a lot of people. If I get you into the work quickly, the Obsession will leave in about ninety days and what happens after that, I believe, is that we begin to manage our lives because we don't know what self-will is. We really, really don't. I came into Alcoholics Anonymous absolutely driven. As a child, I was driven. I did not like the way I felt from the minute I knew a feeling. I loved Vicks Formula 44. How many of y'all remember that black licorice? I mean, just, whoo! I was a sick kid anyway with the croup and I mean I had a bottle of that stuff. Forget the spoon. I still drink cough medicine out of the bottle. And you know, I'd just taken a hit off off that Vicks formula 44. And here's another thing at eight years old, I loved hyperventilating. I don't know if you guys had it. We found it, man, you wrap a towel up, you get your sister and you strangle each other till you pass out. And it was heaven. And the best part was coming back in. Oh, and I loved it. I swear, I think it's a perfect test for alcoholism. You know, Well, you could get a room full of kids that wanted to hyperventilate and the ones that were screaming, do it, do it, we're probably alcoholic. And the ones who were running out of the room screaming were the Al-Anons, you know. They're choking themselves in there. And one time my sister, you know, at the bus stop I did it she fell down, hit her head, cracked her head open I got in a bunch of trouble. But the thing I love is, I mean, the thing I know is that I did not like the way way I felt from day one. I was the youngest of three. We were raised in a Catholic family. I guess maybe they were Irish. I don't know. Maybe they were Scottish, German. Could you have German Catholics? Yeah, okay, okay. Well, whatever. And so we were raised in that Catholic family and all of a sudden, unexpectedly, I'm eight years old, actually between eight and nine years old and my mother dies unexpectedly. She died at 33 years old. It was heartbreaking. And my dad had been an ex-NFL football player, so he was the party boy, she was the party girl. They were, you know, cigarettes were everywhere, booze ran free. Everything in my world changed radically and my dad remarried three times in an 18-month period. I know, that's quite the playa. You know, he was not afraid to commit. We've established that. But he just couldn't seem to manage to keep a deal. And when we had these three kids, we were all two years apart, right? And we basically had four live-in housekeepers and three mothers in 18 months. And so today when I came into Alcoholics Anonymous back then, I would have swore to God that made me alcoholic. I believe the new guy thinks something made them alcoholic. I believe almost everybody that came in this room didn't go, you know what, I think I have that physical allergy and that mental obsession that's driven by that malady. That's what it is. We go, you know what, if you had the life I had, you'd have drank too. You know, ifyou felt the way I felt, you would have drank too. Well, what made the feeling? You've got people who come from wonderful families and people who come from guns and beating up the wife and all. No, it's this, and it's like Eileen said, I believe that I have the genetic disposition of alcoholism. My sister doesn't have it. I think my brother has it. Still debatable. I think my father had it. It was interesting. Everybody drinks differently. And you know, when the book says that we can't call anyone an alcoholic, you know why that is? It's because nobody's going to get anywhere until you know you're alcoholic. Oh, I've seen plenty of people that have come into AA. I've tried to sponsor. They're definitely alcoholic. But we're not moving off the mark until they know they're alcoholic. They got to lay their own experience up against it. So as I share my story with If you lay your own experience up against it, if it's not yours, we leave as friends. If it is, I'm here to help you. I'm hier to wake you up, right? And this is the deal. The thing I misunderstood about alcoholism is that AA is for everything. I suffer from alcoholism. Everyone, every human being has a malady, right, we're human. human self-will god's will we all have a malady the only problem is my malady when it gets too uncomfortable drives me to drink and then the walls come down man then the next thing you know man we are circling the drain and i'm pulling a bunch of people in with me the book is real real clear that my alcoholism affects tons of people i am a tornado roaring through the lives of others and here's the really tricky part that's drunk or sober see I thought if you took the booze off of me here comes the most likable and I'm a go to gal I get stuff done what do you need done they're bugging you I'll go talk to them you need to return that to the store they won't take it back Take me with you. Take me with you." We get stuff done. You know what I mean? And people love that, especially people who can't stand up for themselves. They love my personality. So I'm going through this life with this delusion. Now, in the midst of this, Joe and I are, I got sober in the 80s. That's when codependency recovery was alive and well. Matter of fact, what was beautiful is they'd come to Houston to hear Bob Earl. So, I mean, Bob Earl, I think, is a direct reflection of getting Joe and I together, which was really very cool. But so it was all about your inner child. And here's the deal, guys. You come into Alcoholics Anonymous today, and whatever you hear in the meeting, you believe is AA. And I'm not saying good, bad, right, wrong. I'm just saying let's be careful what we're saying in there because the new guy is forming his old ideas, new ideas, new concepts, whatever, right here, right now. And so I just assumed that if AA was for my drinking problem, I don't have that anymore, then I will do this codependency therapy recovery. So I was in group therapy for ten years. Well, I'm actually quite a good pseudo-counselor. I could just throw down right now you guys in a circle and it would be pretty impressive. Somebody would start crying short order and I'd solve your problems. them. But here's the deal about that. Now, I'm not knocking counseling. Matter of fact, I see counseling as a privilege. I think anybody getting married or getting together in alcoholics should go to counseling. Trust me, you need to learn to communicate. And I'm a big fan of it. I took it way far over. And here's a tricky thing. Everybody in those rooms was in recovery. They were either Al-Anon or AA. And so it was like an in-depth fifth step but the only problem is we were fixing our own problems see the book says i am uh that selfishness i can't wish it away or think it away no matter how hard i try well if you've had 10 years of codependency recovery group therapy you darn sure can get rid of it you just manage it better and that's what i did i became quite a good manager of my defects and so what i I did is I had the rest of the world supporting me kicking your butt because nobody liked you anyway so let's get rid of you and everybody over here tells me how great I am to have no concern of others and on page 19 I love this line this flies right in the face of everything I learned about Katie it says page uh oh this is the note page 19 it says most of us sense that the real tolerance of other people's shortcomings and viewpoints are a respect for their opinions are attitudes which make us more useful to others our very life as an ex-problem drinker depends upon the constant thought of others and how we may help meet their needs shut up really really uh yeah no and uh and so what it's basically saying is if you piss me off you are my guiding light to god how how is that what i'd prefer to do is just detach get you out of the way matter Matter of fact, you remind me so much of my father. I can't stand you. See? And that's what we have a tendency to do. And what God's saying is that person is the perfect person to bring you closer to me. Page 133 says, The deliberate manufacturer of misery. God didn't do it. But when trouble comes, cheerfully capitalize on it so he can show his omnipotence. What? So the next big problem you have, somebody really pisses you off at work or you get fired I'm going to be happy about this cheerfully capitalize on it yeah if you'll do the work you'll be shocked at what comes out the other side see what happens I think to me at least when I got sober is after I got sober all I know is self-reliance I don't know about you guys but I left home at 15 I started drinking at 12. My stuff was bad. My dad laid the law down and said, if you can't live by these rules, you're out. I said, I'm out. I'm not without a driver's license. That was stupid. Could have waited a few more months and gotten a driver'S license, but no, I'll just pedal my bike to school. And so I'm outta the house at 15 years old. I never went back. I graduated from high school, didn't learn anything. Matter of fact, I don't know much. I really don't care where Venezuela is ever I don't know how to spell well don't care don't like museums don't art don't like any of that stuff never have and here's the interesting thing about this this piece of my story and I think it's real important because a lot of people I spoke one time in a convention that had seven other speakers and six of them had had all gone back to college. And I really think the new guy or someone sitting in this room will think, you know what? That's what I need to do. I need go back to collage. Well that decision is a management decision if you just decide you want to go back to collge. If you don't do the work on it, you may go back for all the wrong reasons. And then what you do is you get out the other side and it didn't fix you either. As a matter of fact, a lot of people go back to school and you know what I see them do? First thing they give up is Alcoholics Anonymous. You know they had 10 sponsees Next thing they know, they got schools more important, you know. And they got no sponsees and their stuff's in the ditch. And here's the deal. I'm not saying don't go back to school. I'm just being darn sure you know what you're doing. You know, is that really the will of God that wants you to go back to school or not? See, I learned real quick onto an inventory. I learned that those seven women that came through my life, all they did was show me my old ideas in the third column, right? I have a ton of old ideas on men and women. Oh, don't even get me started. And that's what the third column of a four-column inventory is. How did it affect my self-esteem? How did It affect my pride? And so when this school thing came up, I did the inventory on it. And what I would have done is I would have gone back to college or I would have gone to college to prove to you I wasn't stupid. Well, I'm not stupid. That's because I don't like museums, art, history, geography, spelling, reading, math. Did I leave anything out? What? Music. Oh, no, I love music. But Bob Dylan should stay a writer, not a musician. But other than that, that's my opinion. But here's the thing about it is, guys, is what I began to realize is, oh my gosh, I'm very, very smart. I'm a very street smart. I've got amazing qualities. I ran a business for 30 years. I was fifth out of 5,000. I traveled the world speaking on marketing without an ounce of education in marketing. Traveled the world for 18 years. And it was unbelievable. I mean, it was an unbelievable life. And so that's all I'm saying. I mean, it does show up from time to time. I will tell you that. I have a sponsee and she and I are just like dumb and dumber. Oh my God. When I see her and I see the faux pas she makes, I go, oh wow, okay. You need to get a better edge on that. You know what I mean? I've learned to have an edge on it. And a guy comes into our meeting from Norway and she says, is he from Norwegia? And I said, silly, he is Norwegian. There's about five people standing around. and they go like this. I told you my daughter stole our grandbabies and moved them to Gig Harbor, Washington. Thank God you people in Washington are so wonderful. Yeah, I'm telling you that the folks in Washington Are unbelievable. They're like Texans. So I love you. You're very, very kind. That's not always true. You can go to a lot of states and people in the grocery store line won't talk to you. And you start talking, they look at you like, Like, and if you touch them, oh. But in Washington, you're just so friendly. I'm not kidding. I was very excited. I told April, I said, okay, I'll be okay with this. But she steals our kids, moves to Gig Harbor, Washington, right? But we're sitting there, and we're overlooking the Puget Sound, right, and I'm thinking, oh, my God, this is spectacular. And I said honey, you know, I'm kind of tired. I go, who is it? Is it the altitude? And she looks at me and she goes, mother, this is sea level. And I looked at her and I said, there is Mount Rainier right there. You're not fooling me. She says, you have to be on Mount Rainir. And I swear to God, at that moment I went, oh. Okay. I swear, this was me in the sixth grade. So, what do you think they're doing in math right now? I don't care. I mean, oh, and I move, you know, I marry into a family of educators. You educators think that you can transform me. You can't. And so Charlie's whole family, you know Their highlight of their day is to go see an art museum Or something Monet, Mozart, whoever You know what I mean And Charlie, I'll ask him I'll say, honey, how do you spell? And he'll say Let's sound it out Uh-huh, uh-huh Yep So Back to getting sober over. But I'll tell you guys, I just have to tell you, don't make a move without writing inventory. I don't even want my sponsor. I want my sponsors input, but I don'T want her managing my life. You know? Oh yeah. Oh, trust me. That's a bigger problem. The whole room should be clapping. Trust me if, yeah. I mean, I've had sponsees with guys dating them and I'm thinking and he is a loser. And then about eight years later, he has a remarkable psychic change and they're a powerhouse couple in Alcoholics Anonymous. Thank God she wouldn't listen to me. You know what I mean? So see, when the book's talking about in the sex inventory, it's talking abut a conduct inventory. I am not to be the arbiter of anybody's speaking life, of anybody social life, of anybody working life. life. That's the deal is all my job is, is to give you kind of the pros and cons and you take it into your prayer and meditation. My job is to be the vessel to get you connected to the power. I'm not the power and don't ever think I am the power there. Oh, Eileen, those claps are going to make me take your 10 minutes. You know, I'm just warning you. I just won't look at her while I'm doing it. She, you know, cause I'm telling you, she and I are a lot alike, you Know, A little intimidating. And so here's the other part of what I thought. This is my delusion. I thought AA was for drinking. I thought that my life's problems were for codependency recovery, and I thought the church was for spirituality. Now, I was never a big church person. As I told you, I raised Catholic. They were speaking Irish, Latin, whatever they were speaking in church. And, I mean, it was some foreign language, and all you basically saw was a big old cone and his back, you know? and my job was to flick a booger on my sister that's it you know and i mean today when you're a kid you got some gigantic boogers you know what i mean you can send one of those across the arena and uh and so that was my whole task in life was you know i didn't pay attention i as a matter of fact i just really didn't dig the whole church thing and then of course after my mother dies and my father remarried three times, we are excommunicated. How wonderful is that? And so I remember somebody marched up to me, you know, somebody in a receiving line. Don't ever march up to somebody in the receiving line and please don't ever correct anybody in a receivng line. It's just write inventory. Go talk to your sponsor. You know what I mean? That is not a time or place for you to share your opinion. So it really is. It'sjust terribly tacky. And then I have to cheerfully capitalize on you so God can show his omnipotence to me. But some guy marches up to me and he says, he goes, they were not speaking Latin. And I thought, really? That's all you got out of my story? And I said, dude, it was 1966. They damn sure. What do you think, I'm a liar? And I swear at that point I just wanted to throw down with the guy, you know. And I though, ah! But here's the deal. I just didn't really care about church. I really didn't care about God. I didn't have a good, bad, right, wrong. I just didn't care, you know? And so all of a sudden, I'm three years sober. I am all about Alcoholics Anonymous. I am, I mean, talk about the service structure. I'm all up in it. I am doing committees. I am loving what I'm getting. But what happens, and I think this happens between 18 months and three years, is that the new guy does not see that the program is about selfishness and self-centeredness. You see, we come into Alcoholics Andonymous and we learn character. We learn about being nice and showing up, and my word means my word, and that's all wonderful. But what 60 to 63 is trying to teach me is behind a kind motive, I can destroy you. You see, that's the part where I didn't get it. See, I don't even know I have a motive until you piss me off. And if you don't do what I think you should do, now I'm mad. Well, I must have had a motive. Well, what is that motive? well, on the list. I mean, I don't, I really wanted to help you, but it's third on the list. The top two are self-centered. Trust me. The top two or me getting what I want. And I didn't get that. So at three years, I felt like I needed a little bit more. And Joe says, hey, let's go to church. And I thought, no, I think I need that. And he said, no. No, no let's goto church. I found a really cool non denominational church and we go into this church. They got these big old screens, you know, and everybody's singing and the worship and it's young people and it is so much fun. Oh my God, it is just fabulous. And I mean to tell you, I just thought, I love this. This is what I have been looking for. And the next thing you know, man, I became a Jesus freak. Oh yeah! You know the Jesus freak in Alcoholics Anonymous. I mean... Me and Jesus were tight. and i believe that the alcoholic is a chameleon mark used to say we're like soybeans we take the flavor of anything and um we uh we're chameleans you want you need me to be green today fine you want me to brown tomorrow fine i mean you know what you know i'm at the pta i blend i'm in the motorcycle rally what do you need and when i got into that church oh my god nobody was trying to brainwash me i brainwashed me the church said love the uh hate the sin love the sinner i hated both and the next thing you know man i am getting really distorted and i'm not going to i'm not going but i'm very much about staying sober and keeping my aa friends friends but the meetings elementary and so for three years joe and i got heavily involved in the church and uh and here's the deal you know the guy who tries to come back and save the heathen alcoholics oh yeah let's take a minute to look at them and hope they're getting it you know it's funny when i mentioned jesus uh you know and i don't do it in an aa meeting it's not appropriate in a meeting up here it's okay because i'm telling you my story oh yeah it's definitely definitely not appropriate. Stop it, stop it, stop it. And you also don't get to talk about Buddha. You don't gets to talk Judaism. You don' t get to talked about Hinduism. You don''t get to talks about religion. Zip it! Don't get all your butt in a pucker because of Jesus. They all fall under that. You know what I mean? For some reason, Jesus makes the hair on back of your neck stand up for a lot of people. You ought to mention Jesus in the Bible belt of Texas. Oh, they all think that I'm going to get killed with a lightning bolt any minute. But here's what ended up happening is I came back to try to save you. That's a problem. And the only person that remained my friend was Charlie Parker. Oh, we'd have big arguments. He goes, I guess I'm not living up to your Christian values. No, you're not. You are a pig. you are dating every crazy woman in Alcoholics Anonymous. You know the crazy ones. We women can pick a crazy girl that fast. You can see it in her eye. And I'm not talking driven. I'm talking crazy. And to you men, it's like an aphrodisiac. So don't be thinking you're fooling me. But so Joe and I get very involved in the church. For the next three years, we're in the Church. I'm not kidding you guys. I mean, we looked Amish. I even started wearing underwear. Okay? That's a big deal. And, you know, on page 14 it says, For if an alcoholic fails to enlarge his spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice, he cannot handle certain trials in low spots ahead. That's what it's talking about. See, I thought that I needed to go elsewhere to find my spirituality. Now, I'm not saying you don't. Don't hear it as... You take whatever you're going to do outside and you do it along with Alcoholics Anonymous. Not instead of. And AA better stay up here. Let me tell you something. There's a reason those 12 steps are to keep me unblocked. See, I get blocked. And if I get block, I live in those bedevilments on page 52. And they are troublesome. Listen to these bedevilements, guys. guys. They are so problematic. We were having trouble with our personal relationships. Ask yourself, you know, take the test. Lay your experience up against it. We Were Having Trouble With Our Personal Relationships. We Couldn't Control Our Emotional Nature. We Were Prey To Misery And Depression. Depression, that's just panage for self-pity. We couldn't make a living. We had a feeling of uselessness. We were full of fear. New word is anxiety. We were unhappy. We couldn't seem to be of real help to others. Well, let me tell you something. Those bedevilments are what keep me in the work. The alcohol doesn't keep me in the works. Some of you it may. But I'm not afraid of the alcohol. I'm afraid of living in the bedevils and then let me say something. By the time I pick up the drink the alcohol is the solution. See, and that's where I got all mixed up. And here's the other deal. Well, y'all are just a clapping group of people. It almost feels like a pulpit up here. But here's the deal. What happened is now I'm six years sober. Joe's 12 years sober He says, my God, I'm not doing well. I said, I said what are we going to do? He goes, let's go back to meetings. We marched down to that noon meeting and there we walked in and let me tell you something. You guys, You're my people. You will always be my people, you are my tribe. See, you're the group of people that gets me. The rest of the world, here's a little tip to go out of here with. Next time you're at work or you're in the grocery store and you're talking to somebody, look for this expression. Just saying. You get me. I mean, you can ask an alcoholic if they're married and get a ten-minute answer. It is a yes or no question. Not for us. And that's where this looked. So we come back to AA. I lean over to Joe. I put my arm around him. And I go, oh, my God, honey, we are home. And he goes, I know. This is fabulous. And I had that moment there where I knew I was home. and I'd love to say at that point I skipped down the yellow brick road and life was great and butterflies did fly out of my butt but no, that's not what happened I hope people hear that CD Matthew of you before they hear me so they don't understand where that seems but here's what happened I entered into what I call meeting based sobriety and that I love meetings I absolutely love meetings I've got my favorite meetings that I go to and I got my little ritual just like you have your little ritual. I love, Charlie and I get the privilege of doing this. I love the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. Let me tell you something. It will do nothing to keep you sober. Will not do it. Book tells me that in a hundred places. If you can manage to stay sober on meetings, more power to you. For if an alcoholic fails to enlarge his spiritual life through work, the 12 steps, and self-sacrifice for others, helping the drunk, you will not stay sober. I'm telling you guys, how many of us have lost at least 10 people in AA? Raise your hand. Absolutely. It's everywhere. Now, we're not the lucky ones. I really believe there's a level of grace, and when the grace runs out, the grace run out. And that is my experience. And so Joe and I are sitting there, and oh my God, we're in meeting-based sobriety. And I love the meetings. The meetings are one side of the triangle. Service is the other, and recovery is the foundation. The 12 steps are all we know that helps us stay sober. It says work with another alcoholic. It works when everything else fails. Yes, it does. But trust me, if you're not in there getting unblocked, you will get pissed off at your home group and drink at them yes oh I'm telling you how many of y'all go to a meeting and you go there's big head Doug oh Jesus not him again so and so is getting ready to share wear my ass out my god gonna talk about that stupid divorce one more time and what I learned is Because I had to go to meetings to get relief, right? But I wasn't getting the freedom. And if I had a problem, somebody would sling a slogan at me. And they would say, let it go. What do you mean, let It Go? Did you not just hear my problem? And see what you're doing is you're giving me the promise, asking me to work the promises, hoping the steps come true. You must have me work the steps so I get the promise of letting it go. I can't let it go, I don't even know what I'm letting go. I have to put pen to paper. The tenth step is the most underutilized step in alcoholism. Heck, it's even muddied in the fact that people think it's the evening review. Twelve and twelve muddying the waters on that one, but with no ill intention, it just did. The tenth step is a spot check inventory we take through the day. We are watching for resentment, dishonesty, selfishness, and fear. And when these crop up, we're going to do four things. And if it continues to bother me, I put pen to paper. We continue to take personal inventory. Where does it say that in the book? In the fourth step. So what does that look like? There's the directions. So you see, four through nine is just to get the debris out of the way, and then we live in the disciplines. I've been in the fitness business for 30 years. I can get you to lose 30 pounds. Oh, trust me,I can. And if all of a sudden after you lose 30 pounds, you start eating donuts and drinking sodas every day, in short order, you're putting that 30 pounds back on because you didn't live in the disciplines of keeping it off. It's the same with us. And so Joe and I are just tooling along. There's no 10 steps. There's an evening review, whatever that is. Prayer and meditation is like what Charlie said, reading the 24-hour book and off my list. I've done probably 15 amends because I'm sure I haven't hurt that many people. I am most likable. And, you know, so we're tooling along and then all of a sudden, oh my God, about 10 years of this. Highs, lows, ups, downs, right? Thought, react, life. My husband gets very, very sick. Very sick. And we're both self-employed and the psychiatrist says he's going to have to end up going to get his head scanned. There's something organic in there. And here, remember, I'm uneducated. And so organic meant pot. And the guy, what do you mean organic? He said something's growing in his head. He needs to have his head scanned. Well, I can't afford a head scan. We have catastrophic insurance. A little girl at my meeting says, Katie, you need to go and go drive a school bus. If you drive a School Bus, instant HMO. Got that? Just FYI. And just saying, just saying. And so I go down. I apply for a school bus job, and I get it right away. It's in a fairly affluent neighborhood too. You know what I mean? I mean, I'm not over in the ghetto. It's a fairly effluent neighborhood. And I get this. I get an instant HMO. And I'm telling you what. I take Joe in. It takes him forever to get an appointment. And I call the general practitioner doctor. He says, take him to the emergency room. We get in the emergencyroom. And I tell this doc he needs his head scanned because that's what I do. And he's not about to scan my husband's head until he runs him through a gamut of tests, and he finally decides he's going to scan his head. And when he scans it, I'll never forget this moment. Now, I am on, I have taken this school bus job because it fits in with my fitness career, right? I can get up at 530 in the morning and drive a school bus. I'm not going to be driving that school bus for long. I'm just getting his head scanned because I'm really hurting anybody. Are you with me on that? I mean, too bad. It's a big school system. They can hire somebody else. but I just need his head scan then I'm out of this job and so he gets his head scan the doc comes back in the room he sets his hand right here on my shoulder and I mean it's an intense moment he goes my god he has got a gigantic tumor in his brain it's bad and I remembered my very first thought was I'm gonna be driving this damn school bus for the rest of my life see that's how how self-centered I am. Now, I didn't tell anybody. Okay, yeah, right? I didnít tell him. I didnís go, ìOh, thatís just great, Joe. Iíll be on that stupid bus forever.î You know, but that was my first thought because you guys, I am an extreme example and Iím here to welcome you to Alcoholics Anonymous. Itís yours too. Donít think itís not. fine. It is. But most of us don't ever tell anyone, and so that was my very first thought, and I'm here to tell you guys I drove that school bus for three more years. I was expecting to drive it for two weeks max. Self-will run right, I'm in over my head. Oh my God, let me tell you, those bus stories are unbelievable. There's one. Picture me on a bus. First of of all i added a little flavor to the bus apparel first of all and uh but i'm on that bus and and i'm trying to make the best of it i drive a gas bus because they go fast because i got to get from point a to point b fast and so there's these two humps right that you got and these humps i mean if you got enough if you've got the power of the bus the gas bus the kids will go come on miss k i'm like oh no man guys i'm gonna get in trouble there come on come on so okay fine fine fine There's like five little boys. It was all boys. Get in the back of the bus, you know, and they're all in the back ofthe bus, and so I gas it, and these two humps, but it came to a stop, and you had to take a quick right, you know? And so all of a sudden, you've got to hit the brakes, so right all of the sudden, I gas it, I look up, because your life is the mirror, right? And I look up, and these kids are like, wow! I mean, I could get them five seats over, you know what I'm saying? It was all boys, so it really didn't matter. if you've raised boys you know what I'm talking about you wouldn't have done that for a little girl because she'd have gotten hurt and you'd have got in trouble so they come flying over and all of a sudden I hit the brakes and I hear what the hell was that and these kids go like this we all get off the bus I have blown all four valve stems off the back end yeah Yeah. Yeah. And I remember, I mean, those kids were like rats on a sink. And she just and I thought, oh my gosh, I got to get on the horn, you know? And I'm like, uh, yeah, turtle bus to base turtle bus, to base and base comes on. And our boss also has a radio on his hip, you knowing Billy gets on. He goes, yeah. Yeah, turtle buzz. What's up? I said, man, I don't know what happened. I, uh, I shot all four valve stems off the back end of of my bus, man. They're all gone. And you hear my boss go, what? And so I'm not going anywhere. I'm dead in the water right there. I am dead in the water. So they pull up and this is what they did. You don't know what happened? I said, no, sir, I don't because you see you hurt, threaten or interfere with me. I will will lie right to your face. I am 15 years sober and I can't lose that job. There's no rigorous honesty, not in my program because I didn't have one. And nobody said nothing. I kept the job. Oh, I could give you 110 bus stories, but okay, one more. So, oh my God, there was a guy in a BMW. Any of you guys know if you're on a bus route, it kind of bugs you because the bus stops and and it just pisses you off, and you want to beat the bus kind of deal. We'll stop it. And so this BMW would always come through the neighborhood, and he'd try to beat me before I got to the stop. So that meant he was driving over the speed limit. They're small children. And so he bugged me, and he had a lot of money, and I didn't, so I didn'T like him. And so all of a sudden, I'd see him coming out of his driveway, and he tried to beat be, and I would just kick that reds right open, just kick the door open. The red goes pow. And, I mean, he would just, you know, and he'd always look at me like, what is your problem? And I would do this. Who's got the power now, buddy? No bus stop, no nothing, just me and you can kiss my butt. How do you like that? Oh, God, it was terrible. Well, so here's the deal, guys. Guys, what ends up happening is my husband has brain surgery. And Matthew, God love you. Joe was sick for six years with brain damage. And the person you love when they have brain damage, you have got to keep a level of humor in that household, period. If you've never done it, don't judge me. But I'm telling you what, that pencil, the Andy thing, I live with that every day. And my husband had massive brain damage but he didn't have physical. I was very fortunate. He did not have physical he just had mental and here's what happened guys this is the saddest part of the story it was not cancer it was benign but it was brain damage he's never going to work another day in his life i had three blow-in-the-bag anxiety attacks you know why i was in untreated alcoholism and you couldn't have told me that period what i had was a sick husband this has got nothing to do with my high alcoholism. Don't try to tell me it does and I mean I blew in that bag and this is what worries me more than anything is you could do something as simple as go in for a root canal and they say you need Vicodin and you go, I sure do and you have no idea you're in untreated alcoholism and that Vicodine treats the malady which triggers the allergy and the next thing you know you're off to the races and you're getting more dental work. You see what I'm saying? How many of you know people we've lost on pills? Hundreds, because they're sitting in untreated alcoholism and don't know it. Well, the next thing you know, Joe and I are tooling along. He's going to live, but he absolutely has no safety net, nor do I, and he ends up dying of a heroin overdose. He goes back out at 23 years sober and dies of a heroin overdose. So when I talk about people sitting in the rooms with untreated alcoholism, it hits close to home. It was me and him. I was planning on how I could exit. I know those bedevilments. See, I didn't know the book. I didn' t even know where my book was. I had no idea the solution was always right there. No idea. Mark Houston absolutely saved Charlie and I's lives. And I'm telling you, you guys, it is something that I would never ever have known. I would Never Ever Have Gotten That Untreated Alcoholism Was Joe and I'S Problem. We were going to five meetings a week. We were all about staying sober, but we were not treating our alcoholism with the 12 steps. I mean, we get blocked so easily. I understand today, you know what the tenth step is about? The tenth step is about watching. It doesn't mean the whole world has to blow up before I do something. I'm just watching for these things. You know why? Because the ego of the alcoholic rebuilds at an astonishing rate. Astonishing. It was written by a doctor that was not one of us. Not Silkworth, one of the other ones in the back. Tit wall, tit well, whatever. Starts with a T. That's how I live my life. But I'm telling you guys I didn't even get it. So I get myself, I find this sponsor and she's in untreated alcoholism and you know what? Here's the beauty. God takes up so much slack. When two people's hearts are in the right place God takes out so much Slack and I'm telling her she knows all about Joe and it's been 18 months and I've lost him and I can't believe it and blah, blah, bla and I am dark, dark, and she said oh honey there is a fine line between sorrow and self-pity and you have slipped into it. You are in self- pity and I was quite insulted, but I was willing to listen. And I'm telling you guys something. There is so much help out there. There's a couple of things I'm ending with. I am about talking to middle management. I'm about talking to the guy that's got 3, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years. I can't believe I can'T even begin to tell you how many people that have asked me to take them through the work with 25 years sober. They are dying and they They are deathly afraid to say it because they shouldn't feel this way. Oh, my gosh, it's okay. Don't dump. Yeah, absolutely. It's, you know, and I'll tell you guys, I mean, I did it. I lived it. I know it. So I'm talking to middle management. If any of my experience helps anyone, remember a moment of clarity is absolutely of no value if it is not followed by the action of you doing the work. So if you're not in the book, get in the book. And if you are, I'll happily see you on the firing line. Thank you very much. Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed the podcast. Sobercast is ad-free and we'd like your help in order to keep it that way. So if You'd like to help us be self-supporting by pledging a dollar to a month, visit SoberCast.com and look look for the donate links. Thank you very much.