A World Series ring in a pawn shop marks the nadir for Don N. a legendary pitcher who once dominated the mound but found himself struck out by alcohol. He recounts the wreckage of 1966: a marriage in shambles a four-year-old son's teary eyes and a photograph showing the physical abuse he inflicted on his wife Billy B. The turning point came on his knees swearing to a Higher Power that he would never drink again. Now sixteen years sober Don N. describes the slow process of earning back his wife's love—a journey that took eight years of sobriety before she could truly say 'I love you' again. He speaks of the grit required to make amends including paying back a twenty-year-old gambling debt to Jim B. and finds his purpose in saving other athletes from the brink of suicide.
It is now my pleasure to introduce our first speaker of the evening, and I've had the pleasure of spending the afternoon with him. He is indeed an outstanding American. Ladies and gentlemen, we are fortunate to have with us an outstanding ...
It is now my pleasure to introduce our first speaker of the evening, and I've had the pleasure of spending the afternoon with him. He is indeed an outstanding American. Ladies and gentlemen, we are fortunate to have with us an outstanding American. Mr. Don Newcomb is known across the country as a person who has come to grips with some of the basic issues of life. Don was one of the first black men in Major League Baseball. In 1946, Jackie Robinson, Roy Campanella, and Don Newcombe started the process that helped make baseball the sport for all Americans. But Don was not just a player, he was a winner. He was the only player in Major League history to receive these awards Rookie of the Year, Most Valuable Player in the National League and the Cy Young Award which when Don won it was for the best pitcher in both leagues. He won more than 140 major league games, pitched in three World Series, played in five All-Star Games and is considered by many baseball experts as one of the greatest pitchers in the history of the game. There's another side of Don Newcomb And it's almost ironic that while Don was able to throw fastballs at opposing batters and strike out the best in baseball at that time, something else struck Don Newcomb out. That something was alcohol. Don will tell you in a few moments about what alcohol did in his life. Today he is an advisor to the White House on alcoholism and a consultant to all of the baseball world on alcoholismo. Don Newcombe has spent the last several years working for the government, traveling hundreds of miles around the country to inform people, especially young people, about alcohol problems and you can believe that Don Newcomb is concerned. He's with us today because he cares. We are indeed fortunate to have a man who has risen to the top, then been thrust to the bottom, then pulled himself back up again. He is here to share that experience with us. Would you welcome Mr. Don Newcomb? My, my thank you very much Roy and ladies and gentlemen. And Roy I like introduction because my wife wrote it and some of the things you say are true and some of them not so true but she doesn't always tell the truth about me anyhow that's neither here nor there either ladies and gentlemen i want to say and echo what roy has just said about how happy i am from my perspective in seeing so many people here tonight to take tribute to a great organization crossroads who is giving so much of themselves to help people like me and some of you in this audience to have so many people come out tonight and pay the amounts of money that you paid to be here bill and roy you know try to they tried to butter me up and to make me believe that you came and paid that money to hear me but How many of you came to really hear me tonight? How many came to hear me? Not many, not many. There wasn't many hands up, but anyhow, it's nice to be here. You know, ladies and gentlemen, I'm a grateful—believe me, I want to emphasize again, grateful—recovering alcoholic. I remember years ago, I would not have said that. I wouldn't have said to five people in the room, much less 500. it. But believe me, I'm very comfortable in saying that now. I'm very happy to be able to say it. My wife, Billy, in Los Angeles, California, is very happy to hear me say it because 16 years ago she said some things to me that I didn't like to hear, but they were factual, I find out now. I remember her saying to me, you're nothing but a bum and you're nothing but an alcoholic. And I said, well, how do you know and alcohol you don't even drink i said that's not a medical diagnosis that's only your opinion so i got to get drunk again that was my excuse for going out to get drunken again but tonight i'm very happy to be able to say as i said now for the last 16 years in the nights that i've enjoyed my life i've been enjoying my sanity and my happiness with my family with the people that i hold close to me now and i have inside that realm of life of mine that that light that that was in shambles 16 years ago and there backwards but able to tell people that i'm happy very grateful recovering alcoholic and i've got my life back on the right track now i i i wish you could get inside don newcomb to find out just what he's talking about if you could just feel how good he feels inside and it's my words and and the feeling in my words will express that to you i want you to know how good it makes me feel and if some of you in this audience have experienced the same happiness that i'm experiencing right now that's what it's all about i remember back 16 years ago when i was on the brink of despair when my wife was standing in our living room in los angeles california where we had moved from new jersey at that point in time in 1965-66 some of these things are fuzzy in my mind now because i really don't remember some of them i i was i was functioning but i was not remembering a lot of things but i remember very vividly in 1966 my wife billy waking me up one morning and telling me that she was going to divorce me and she was divorcing me because of my drinking she was divorces me because she could not stand me when i drank he said don i'll have to get away you because i cannot stand living with you because you're such an animal when you drink you're a wonderful man when you're sober but that's very seldom now very seldom are you sober you go to the golf course to play golf with your friends joe lewis and chivalry robinson and billy eckstein and harry mills of the mills brothers and smoky robinson and marvin gaye and jim brown and bill russell all these men are your friends you're playing golf with them and enjoying yourself playing golf with them they're enjoying being with you i think but then you come home and you come home drunk i wonder if they go home drunk and i begin to take a close analysis of my friends and i found out that they didn't go home drunk they went home but they went on with their family don newcomb was the only one going home drunk and they began to disassociate themselves from me and and say don we don't really want to be around you because of the way you act when you drink i began to get a whisper i began to get an understanding of what billy was talking about when she said to me don i can't live with you i can't be around you when you drink he said to me and i shall never forget it i gave you a son you like jaffee robinson and roy campanella and duke snyder and all those great dodgers in the past one of the sons he said your first marriage at 13 years you didn't have a son i knew when i married you how badly you wanted the son that gave you don jr and he's four years old now and he looking up at you with those tears in his eyes and he saying with those tears daddy why is it you're doing yourself what did i do wrong daddy tell me daddy tell me daddy mommy told me that you wanted me and she gave you to me or gave me to you and now you you're getting ready to let mom walk out that door daddy i think that's what those little teary eyes were telling me with a four-year-old boy ladies and gentlemen and i remember them very vividly today as i as if it were yesterday my little son now who's a big man now he's 20 years old and he's grown up to be six foot three now and 200 pounds so i don't think he'll be crying much anymore as far as my drinking is concerned but i remember those eyes and i shall never forget them i was telling roy mason over at the hotel or over at my room in the hotel here that i also remember a picture that remains in delaby imprinted in in my mind a picture that i shall never forget the sight of i tore the picture up that morning when billy handed to me and said i want you to look at something mister i want to see what those big ugly hands have done to my face that's what i was doing ladies and gentlemen the same man that roy introduced you a moment ago he was assaulting and abusing this beautiful woman that gave him his son and another son and a daughter because he could not and would not stop drinking he was controlled by a substance that he didn't even know how to handle and when she showed me that picture I think I broke down and cried I said my God Billy I can't be this bad what's wrong with me and she said Don I've been trying to tell you for six years of our marriage now if you're drinking and if you don't stop drinking I'm going to leave the cab is waiting outside and I'm gonna leave you ladies and gentlemen same baseball player that rory mason introduced you had gone to such depths of despair that i had put my world series championship ring in the pawn shop to gamble and drink a diamond wrist watch that sammy davis jr's uncle gave me in a pawn shop in order to drink and gamble that's the depth of despair of the same rookie of the year the ty young award revival play awards some years ago had gotten himself into that's the level of life alcohol has taken me don newcomb Does anyone know why you see me here tonight and why I'm so happy? I'm not going to a pawn shop anymore. I'm never going to ever go to a point shop again, maybe to buy something but not to pawn something. If your gamblers bet on that, if you want to win, I sure bet, bet that Don Newcomb will ever go the pawn shop again to pawn his World Series ring. And I thank God for the Dodgers who got this ring out of the pawn shops and the owner of club gave it back to me when i went to work for him 12 years ago as his director of community community relations which i still function today but to get back to billy in my remembering that picture that picture and ladies gentlemen i got on my knees that morning i put my hand on the head of that little four-year-old boy don jr and i said to god i said god if you're out there somewhere I've never asked you for anything God and if you gave me anything I probably didn't say thank you I didn't know enough to say thank You I was too ignorant even too engrossed in my own misery I guess or my own successes for what they were and I just wasn't paying attention to God and I said God if You're there now and Billy says You are You help me to get up off my knees and I swore to God on my knees that morning with my hand on the head of my little son god if you get me off my knees i promise you i'll never drink another drop of alcohol as long as you give me a breath on this earth and there again if you're gambling and if you want to bet you bet that don nukin will ever drink alcohol again ladies and gentlemen i hold in my hand a little symbol this little symbol is a constant reminder to me many many of us in the great club alcoholic anonymous carry coins or chips or whatever but this is my reminder this little symbol right here that little symbol after 16 years is a constant reminder to me that i don newcomb 6 foot 4 240 pounds of former athletes can never even drink this little symbol full of beer again after 16 Years of happiness billy and i and our baby if i drank that little thimble full of beer and billy saw it he would immediately divorce me ladies and gentlemen how how serious can it be how much game playing do we involve ourselves in in our thinking what are our attitudes what do we think about alcohol why do we as an american society play so many games with it what does it do to people that for a six foot four 240 pound man He can't even drink a little simple full of beer anymore in his entire life Well, I come to grips with that. I've come to get with it in my life and I'll guarantee you I'm in no circumstances. Will I ever drink that simple of beer again? And I'll go into something else. I finally I believe after many years of Hoping that it would happen. I Finally have the love of my wife back again Ladies gentlemen to show you how For those of you who have never lived this kind of life, as some of us in this room have lived, eight years after I stopped drinking, 1966 to 1974, at very few points in time, Billy would ever tell me that she loved me in that eight-year period. Or she superficially would say the words when certain things came about. Some of you understand what I'm talking about, I hope. But in the very real sense, in a very real meaningful sense, she would not say with the feeling that she says it now without these things happening that don't need to happen. Can you understand what I'm talking about? These things don't have to happen in order for her to tell me that now because now she believes her man. She believes her and she loves her man now. Is there any reason for you to think that I'm going to play games with her now and even attempting to think that I can drink this little semaphore beer again. I've got my family back. I've a social life with my wife and my friends. Let me tell you, in Alcoholics Anonymous there's an eighth step in our 12-step program. Make a list of people you hurt and make amends. I'm going to give you an example, and it may appear funny to some of you. It really was funny to me when I did it, but it's going to also prove funny to you because it will show you how crazy we are when we are in the depths of despair that we're in when we're so ensconced by alcohol and it's abusive. Way back in 1959, in Los Angeles, California, I was out there after the baseball season was over and playing golf with these friends that I named and others, Jim Brown, the famous football player with the Cleveland Browns, came to Los Angeles to play in an all-pro football game. The night before at a friend of ours' house, my vodka told me to challenge Jim Brown to a golf game the next day. Now between my vodka and my thinking I had a good golf game with very little money in my pocket, I thought that I could beat this great football player playing golf. Now you've got to have a lot of nerve to do that if you can picture Jim Brown in your mind. Some of you remember Jim Brown as the great football player that he was. Well, I challenged Jim Brown to a golf game and we were going to get $100. I went to the golf course with about $58, $60, maybe $62 in my pocket. Now you talk about guts. You go out there and bet Jim Brown $100, you only got $60 in your pocket. Well, my viker and my game, that golf game of mine, told me to do it. Well, I got beat. I wound up owing Jim Brown 38 dollars in 1959. Now, Jim Brown got mad. He got terribly mad. He said, you got the nerve to embarrass me before a football game and at a party in front of all those people talking about your golf game and how great you were and how bad you were going to beat me. And now you come out here and you don't have enough money to pay me after you lose. And I made myself an enemy. All right, years went by. Jim Brown said he forgot about the debt, but 1980 came about two years ago. I was on a golf course in Los Angeles, California, and I ran into Jim Brown and Bill Russell who was playing a different part of the golf course. I was playing one part, they were playing another part and I walked over to Jim Brown and I said, Jim, let me say something to you. I said I haven't seen you in a long time and you and I have a little jet to settle. Now right away Jim Brown backed off like he thought I was going to become physical. I was sober at that time and I wasn't that crazy any longer, you see. So I said to Jim, I said Jim, do you remember in 1959 when I walked off the golf court only $38? He said, Don, I've forgotten all about that. That's gone. Forget about it. I said, no, Jim, I haven't forgotten about it." I said,"I happen to belong now to a club called Alcoholics Anonymous. One of our steps is to make amends with people that we hurt. And I felt that I hurt you. I not only hurt you, I hurt myself. I hurt a whole lot of people in the things that I have done in my life, Jim with drinking. And I don't want to hurt people anymore and I still have this on my mind that I owe you this $38. Now I reached in my pocket and i pulled out a 50 bill and i said now you keep the 12 hours of interest i don't know what your interest rates are but keep the twelve dollars as interest and ladies and gentlemen nor jim brown said to me this famous athlete this famous movie star he said don i don t know what brought you to me today but you must know i need this money you must no i need his money he said to and i shall always remember that i don know what his financial situation was i don why he said those words but i had a friend back again i had a friend that because i had made amends i had not forgotten and i owed him something and it made me feel better thank god jim brown didn't get mad i might not have felt so good you see but this is a part of our restructuring our social lives i think at least it was with don newcomb i have that back now i still play golf with billy rickstein i still played golf with smokey robinson and marvin gaye and some of those men who was still alive and still able to play golf. We're still friends now, and they enjoy playing with me in addition to Jim Brown. We enjoy being around you now, Don, because you're a gentleman. And yes, my golf game has gotten better, too, since I started drinking. I want you to know that. Legally, ladies and gentlemen, when Don Newcomb was drinking, he was always in trouble. Always in trouble because of drinking. Now, in the last 16 years, well, in 16 years I haven't had an equal lawyer in seven of those 16 years. I haven' t been picked up 16 years for drunk driving obviously not i haven't had you know i don't drink anymore john try to worry about going to jail anymore for drunk driver you talk about the transformation that takes place in a person i think that's what it's all about how they become an integral part of society how they can do something to help their fellow man how they can do some thing to make people proud of them some of those same people might have been proud of a don newcomb on the baseball field now might be infinitely more proud of me because of what i'm doing now i know i'm more proud to myself than what i did in the baseball arena i'm more proud now and more content with myself i'm i'm I'm more well i'm more in control of Don Newcomb now i'm proud of Don newcomb if i can say that without pinning a rose on my lapel i'm Proud now because i know what i am doing i'm proud now because i've gotten my financial situation back together again now i'm not going to the porn shop billy's not sleeping on the floor she has food in the icebox now why does all this come about for one very specific reason that don newcomb does not drink alcohol any longer those were the reasons for well that was the reason for my problem the drinking of alcohol and i didn't even know it i remember very vividly now after Billy reminded me of it. I remember going home one day in New Jersey a month before we moved to California from New Jersey. She said, I came home and I walked into the kitchen where she was feeding two little babies, Tony and Kelly. Don was up there asleep. And she said, I stood there and glared at her and I said to her these words. I said, and I'm not going to use the language that you said I used, but you draw your own conclusions about the language that i use i'm going upstairs i'm coming down every hour and i'm gonna beat you up but i didn't say those words to her in the in the you know in that context and she thought i was insane which i was and she said you went upstairs and every hour you came downstairs for the next three hours and every time i heard you coming downstairs i pick up a baby and hold the baby in my arms maybe that was the only reason that you didn't insult me or abuse me and she said then don i knew i had to leave you i had you get back to california to my family so i could get away from you because you're going to kill me or the baby insanity ladies and gentlemen i've got my sanity back now old billy still says i'm partially insane well i'll be that way all my life i guess i can't change that but you see i'm telling you these things about me because i want you to know them i want to know then because i'm proud of being able to talk about myself i'm proud in being able able to stand up on my two feet as a man, where prior to my being able to stand up when I was drinking and thinking about not drinking any longer, thinking about why my problems were like they were, I was on my knees. And very one very important factor has become very evident in my life now in the last oh nine ten years. I've gotten in my wife now ladies and gentlemen something that makes me feel so good i've gotten in my life now a higher power whom i choose to call god and those people who don't have a spiritual feeling in any sense at all in their lives i say they're very lonely people they're more sicker than any of us who are alcoholics in this room unless and until they find a god somewhere they're going to continue to be lonely people you know I do a lot of flying I've got to catch a plane tonight going back to Los Angeles and I can't be standing here fabricating stories about God either you know you get up to 35,000 feet you're closer to God than you are here on the ground you see I want to be able to ride that plane back to Las Vegas with my family with a feeling of being comfortable I don't want my guard to reach in that window and say Don you told a little tale down there tonight at that dinner and i want to talk to you about that son see i have a need for god i found a need forgot father in my life i found the need for God and it makes me feel good i'm proud to be able to stand here now and tell you that i'm very proud of that billy prayed for me how she prayed for me on her knees so many nights because her and God were talking about what a man i could be if I just stopped drinking know then What alcohol was eventually going to do to me? Well, I was lucky a Lot of us in this room tonight. We're lucky we're lucky people were happy very fortunate people well a Major segment that comes about because of the wonderful club that I'm now a member of I've been now for the last nine years Alcoholics Anonymous How proud I am to be able to say that but ladies and gentlemen as i travel the country and representing our government which i've been doing now for nine years i i'm very dismayed about a lot of things i'm hearing and seeing i'm sehr concerned about young people and their abuse of alcohol and the mentality of society adult society telling our young people it's all right to drink just don't get on drugs you know that worries me uh young people in the school system ladies and my people in Washington estimate that I have spoken to over three and one-half million young people in the school system in 47 states in this country That's a lot of young people and in most part these young people are telling me that my parents are saying it's all right To drink if you're going to do something drink alcohol just don't get on drugs And then I ask him a very simple question is alcoholic road, and they'll say yes I said why do you drink it? They said because mom and dad said it's not serious as other drugs. Well, I worry about that When mrs. Reagan makes the statement that we are now raising a lost generation of young people that worries me And ladies gentlemen, they should worry us You in industry you who are recovering? alcoholics like I You who are concerned citizens you who aren't a position of authority to make some decisions about what should happen in your respective communities Ladies and gentlemen, I believe that there has to be a change in society in these United States somehow somewhere about alcohol when i read a newsletter that says we have 17 million alcoholics in these united states today that worries me each one of those alcoholics affecting or infecting i like to say for the people in their lives that worries made 68 to 70 million people infected by a disease called alcoholism and we in a major part of our society not paying attention to it the way we should be doing but you approve that you're going to pay attention because you came out tonight and you put your money where your mouth is that makes me proud to have been here tonight but there's a lot of attitudes that have to be changed i promised roy mason that i read a letter from a person that has a need for a change in attitude i think this person needs to find a higher power somewhere i don't know if it will ever come about but i want to share this letter with you because i think it will then make you laugh and then then I'll be finished with what I got to say because John are you ready where are you ready I talked today at a luncheon Roy Mason asked me to say a few words and John invited me up to say if he were to the people there assemble for lunch up at the Wrigley mansion and I talked to them about attitude the change in attitude that many people have to have to endure before they will really be able to find anything meaningful and significant in dealing with this sickness there's a lady that i'm associated with in los angeles california well she's in san diego her name happens to be joan crock she happens to me the owner or at least her husband is the owner but i think joan is really the owner of mcdonald hamburgers now that's a lot of hamburgues we're talking about when we talk about joan crock right well joan car crock happens to have operation cork in san Diego I consult to her and Two years ago. She wrote letters to people in professional sports about the possibility of starting some programming that would deal with a change in attitude dealing with alcohol and She wrote let us the people like Tom Landry from the Dallas Cowboys, and he wrote a very beautiful letter back to her She wrote led us to other people in Professional Sports commissions of football and baseball and whatever but she got one letter back from a person that I cannot name for obvious reasons because of the fact that it might be involved in a lawsuit and I don't want to do that but you draw your own conclusions about who this person is now he happens to be a football coach and he coaches a football team in California and the football team happens to be in Southern California and they don't play at the Coliseum no remember I got 500 plus witnesses that I did not use any name now you draw your own conclusion but here's the letter I want you all listen to this letter now and then then I'm gonna be finished how much time we got oh wait a minute no wait a minute now we Roy Roy said go ahead then when I go over sit next to him he don't say why'd you run your mouth so much you got out of speaking everybody Mason something we got mrs. Mason who watch this guy watch him let me share this letter with you ladies and gentlemen he writes dear Joan thank you for your interest and concern in regard to alcoholism among professional athletes it is unfortunate that because of several cases in other sports a judgment is made on all professional athletes I have been associated with professional football for the past 30 years and can honestly say that I have never encountered an alcoholic problem among professional football players. Now get this, the intense nature of football makes it impossible to consume alcohol and participate efficiently on the practice field or in games. One of the biggest problems we have is dehydration among football players alcohol alcohol causes dehydration thereby increasing the dehydration process which can cause very serious medical problems is there a doctor in house is history well let me continue once again the intensity vigorousness and athletic ability required in football makes it impossible for a pro football player to survive any length of time if he has an alcoholic problem. Your concern is deeply appreciated. Nevertheless, let's not make a problem where there isn't one. The game is tough enough. Cordially, head football coach of the team that I told you about. Now, that's the letter that I wanted to share with the people at the luncheon this afternoon because I wanted them to see and hear and remember something about attitude. this person is responsible for many lives in fact after sending his letter out and and jones sent it to me about a week after i got the letter it was in the los angeles times that this famous running back with this team was locked up for the fifth time for drunk driving and now he's achieved his sobriety and he's now a child of God the same running back that I'm talking about who shall remain nameless also because of his privacy but believe me ladies and gentlemen these are some of the things that we've had to endure I'd like to say very briefly that that some of you might recall seeing a World Series a few weeks ago it of course didn't involve the Dodgers so so I really didn't pay much attention to it but to very briefly tell you this and if john doesn't mind i want to tell you this you saw a young man become the most valuable player in the world series his name is daryl porter some of you watched it maybe somebody didn't watch the world series but those of you who did remember daryle porter came to me three years ago darryl porter the same manager on television the other night in the world series was threatening to blow his brains out because of alcohol and drugs in his system He told me in his spring training camp when he's with the Kansas City Royals in Fort Myers, Florida that Mr. Newcomb if you don't help me tonight I'm going to blow my brains out when I get back to the hotel. I've had it. I can't live this life any longer. I didn't know what to do for the man because I'd only met him five minutes before that. I Didn't Know What To Say Or What To Do and this man is crying ladies and gentlemen. The tears are coming down his cheeks. A big superstar a baseball player his hand shaking so badly I didn't know if he was going to have a fit or what he was gonna have and I said to my my God God now I need you again it seems now I'm always asking you God to help me with something well I need your right now tell me what to do to help this man to keep from blowing his brains out and I believe he means it and ladies and gentlemen next three hours I talked to Darryl Porter I run up one side him down the other down up back again call them all kinds of names I wish I could use some languages I used and you wouldn't appreciate if I did but we got Darryl Porter here to Wickenburg to the Meadows and Darryle Porter became what you saw the other night on television most valuable player in the World Series simply because somebody cared somebody gave a damn ladies and gentlemen about a guy named Darryll Porter a guy like Bobby Welch a young pitcher with the Dodgers and I'm proud to say that these men if they walk into this room at night would tell you that that guy saved my life now wonder how good you think that makes me feel to know that these are two men in addition to others who will tell you publicly that this man saved my life how can I fail them now how can I feel others that might be in need of the same help that I gave to Bobby Welch and Darryl Porter so the inspiration that you bestow upon me tonight by being here show me that you care that you can come out and hear John and I speak I know I know he didn't come to eat the chicken tonight i know i know you didn't do that although it was a good meal i know you didn' t come to eat the chicken you can eat chicken anywhere didn't have to cost you 50 bucks to eat chicken you know but that's how good it makes us feel when we're able to stand before an assembly of people like you here tonight and tell you how proud i am that i'm a human being again that i've got my life back together again and i can take this happiness of mine not zip it up in my pockets and forget about other people. Open up my pockets, open up my heart and my mind so I can help somebody like Bobby Welch and Darryl Porter. I think that's what it's all about. So ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to continue trying and those of you who feel the same way that I feel, you know what I'm talking about. And those of who don't feel the same way that I feel and have not experienced what some of us have experienced. We know that you're here we know that you care and there again is another dimension to our feeling so good about our lives and being able to help somebody else. So to you, to you I want to say I want to clap my hands for you. I wantto clap my hand because you're hear and that you care and to Roy and the people at Crossroads for inviting me thanks to you all and ladies and gentlemen god bless all of you now i'd like to say something before i close for those of you who know what i'm talking about i always like to close my talk with a prayer we call it in aa the serenity prayer those of vous who would like to will you stay with me in the privacy of your of your area god grant me the sereny to accept the things i cannot change courage to change the things i can and wisdom to know the difference thank you ladies and gentlemen
Discussion
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