What’s in a Spiritual Toolbox? Power Tools — They Have to Be Plugged In 😆 — Sandy B. – Sandy R.
About This Speaker Tape
Sandy B. fields audience questions at a spiritual retreat, opening with his philosophy on Q&A sessions — that hearing another person's perspective on the same question expands your own understanding beyond what either answer alone could offer. He tackles resentment and the "doormat" feeling head-on, arguing that the doormat sensation is rooted in extreme self-centeredness and must be addressed at its source before forgiveness work can take hold. He defines the spiritual toolbox as "power tools" — instruments that only work when plugged into Higher Power — and names letting go as the single most important tool in AA.
The session moves into deeply personal territory when Sandy addresses forgiveness. He shares that he lost one daughter to murder and another to alcoholism, and describes the practice of deciding in advance to be a forgiving person so that when catastrophic events arrive, the decision is already made. He teaches a technique for the half-second before reacting to devastating news: turn to Higher Power first, affirm the relationship, and then sit with the sorrow — because sorrow is something Higher Power can help with, while hatred leaves you on your own.
Sandy describes his own spiritual experiences — seeing energy radiating from trees, perceiving his face as a mask over the spiritual being underneath, waking in the night with overwhelming well-being — and credits these breakthroughs to years of consistent legwork between his 37th and 40th years of sobriety. He connects this to the Promises, emphasizing that spiritual gifts "materialize" only when we prepare ourselves to receive them, using the analogy of a mailbox that must be properly set up before mail can be delivered.
The final stretch covers the St. Francis prayer's "dying" as the death of ego rather than physical death, the concept of evil as merely the absence of love rather than a force of its own, the danger of tiny course corrections pulling individuals and groups off the spiritual path, and the irreducible navigation aid for AA: one problem (alcoholism), one solution (Higher Power). He forgives Hitler on the spot to close the loophole question on forgiveness.
Topics
Timestamps
Full Transcript
We're on. Well, good morning, everybody. We're delighted to be starting our second day here.
And as you can see from the schedule, there's a lot of free time. There was plenty of time
this morning. We got about 45, 50 minutes of...
And as you can see from the schedule, there's a lot of free time. There was plenty of time
this morning. We got about 45, 50 minutes of...
We're on. Well, good morning, everybody. We're delighted to be starting our second day here.
And as you can see from the schedule, there's a lot of free time. There was plenty of time
this morning. We got about 45, 50 minutes of answering questions and then a big break.
And during that time, they'll be showing Chuck Chamberlain a DVD here. Or you can watch
Wander, whatever. None of this is mandatory or anything. So I hope you enjoy that.
Now, when you get down to questions and answers, you learn a lot of things if you are around
sessions like this. I love the Brentwood group out in California. They have a beginner's
thing where you talk for 20, 30 minutes and then they stand up and ask questions of old
timers. And Chuck C. used to go.
And you'd be able to ask him a question.
If we did this next week, this same box of questions, you might hear different answers
from me than you hear today. And if you had your sponsor come up and do it, you might
hear different answers. A lot of them are going to seem the same. But you've got to
realize that the answer that I'm going to give is going to come from my perception.
Part of the fun of question and answers, and today I'm going to take about 10 or 15
seconds after I read the question, is for you to sort of go, okay. And then you hear
another perspective on it. And when you combine the two, you really get to see something even
beyond that.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
And that's the fun. That's why that book, I Am That, has always intrigued me because
the awakened person in India and people come to ask him questions, spiritual seekers from
all over the world. So you get to read the question that this stupid guy from England
asked. And then you go, God, I could answer that. And so you form the answer. Then you
read and you go, God, I could answer that. And so you read and you go, God, I could answer
that. And so you go, God, I could answer that. And so you go, God, I could answer that.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, wow.
Wow.
Wow.
Never would have seen it that way. So that's why I think it's fun to have these sessions.
So we'll start out randomly.
We could do the Karnak.
You remember Karnak?
Goodyear tires.
What was Mrs. Goodyear's biggest complaint?
Okay.
Boy, these are going to be funny answers.
Where does letting go of a resentment for my sanity end and being like a doormat start?
And how do I know the difference to choose the right action?
Today, I've...
I've...
I've...
I feel the answer is you have to work with your sponsor and with the program to stop feeling like a doormat.
Otherwise, everything that you do is going to make you feel like a doormat.
In other words, there's an underlying problem.
It's almost like you have to stop drinking first in order for something to happen.
So, if the center of you feels like a doormat, every act of forgiveness...
This is going to reinforce your feeling.
Or every act of getting rid of a resentment is going to feel like you're just adding to the doormat feeling.
So, you...
That's why you're afraid...
You feel already ahead of time.
If I do that, I'll feel like a doormat.
And that's not who we are.
So, that's...
Whoever it is, I would just say that is...
Just get down with your sponsor and go, what is this doormat thing?
And it's extreme self-centeredness.
In other words, everything revolves around me.
And I'm being...
Every action that people take is to make me feel less than I am.
That whole thing.
So, I would say that's...
You really can't accomplish anything until you can move off the center of being a doormat.
Okay.
Okay.
What is...
What's in a spiritual...
What's in a spiritual toolbox?
Well, there's a...
Now, that's a great question.
I bet if we went around the room, we'd get all kinds of different answers.
What's in a spiritual toolbox?
Okay.
I'll give you a two-word answer.
Power tools.
They have to be plugged in.
Do you see what...
In other words, they're plugged into God.
That gives them the power to work.
So, when we pick up this simple kit of tools, you got to remember that the purpose is they're plugged in.
Now, you go about whatever you're doing, whether it's taking an inventory, whether it's sharing.
You want to...
You want to...
You want to...
You want to be plugged into God.
You might just always...
That's why we start the prayers.
Let me be of judge service and turn my life over.
And it's connected there.
Now, the tools can be properly used and we'll get the results they're supposed to get.
And we forget that.
The ego wants us to forget that.
And it just says, well, I guess I got to get over that resentment.
I'll just forgive them.
I'll do that.
And all that.
But it's got to be plugged in.
So, that's my...
Now, if you want to know what is specifically in there, I would put at the top of the list the main tool,
the main course of action of all of Alcoholics Anonymous, letting go.
What are you working on?
Well, I'm all upset.
Get...
Throw it away.
Let go.
Come back tomorrow.
See what's been done with it.
But you cannot be helped.
You cannot be helped with anything until you let it go.
Top of the list of the tools of AA.
What do you think of long-distance sponsorship?
I've heard great reports.
You've got to realize these are individual decisions.
I personally don't do it.
I have to see the people.
That's just me.
I want to see their eyes at meetings.
I don't...
I don't sponsor people unless they're going to at least one or two meetings that I go to every week.
Now, if an old-timer in Chicago wants to call me and say,
can I call you once in a while and get your feedback on something, I go, great, yes.
But it's not a sponsorship relationship.
I just somehow have put that in my head.
That means I see you so that I can ask you what's the matter.
And on the phone sometimes I can't see your face.
And so...
But, I mean, Clancy must have pigeons all over the world.
And I'm sure some of you old-timers in here, yeah, I got guys.
I sponsor a guy in here and there.
I'm just telling you for myself, I'll be glad to have people ask questions and answer them.
But I don't...
Somebody called me from Washington, D.C. and said, could you be my sponsor?
I'd say,
no, but you can call me with questions.
So that's my take on that, which is just one of many.
I was going to wait to ask this, but...
Is procrastination a form of self-centeredness?
Um...
Um...
Um...
Um...
Um...
That's a fascinating question.
I haven't even thought about procrastination.
I guess I like the two-syllable word, lazy.
Yes, of course.
And I believe that the self-centered part of it is being a perfectionist.
And we just don't want to do anything until...
Until we're going to do it perfectly.
And since we can't do that and we're never really ready to.
And I would also say fear.
I just don't want to take a risk.
I don't want to take...
Step out of my comfort zone.
I know I'm funny.
I know I got a bunch of jokes.
But I'm not going to stop.
I'm not going to stand up at a comedy theater and find out.
And so I delay it.
I delay it.
And it's a way of working against your own best interest,
which, of course, is one of our specialties,
is to take courses of action that aren't going to work good for us
in case we were running out of things to worry about.
So this gives us a way of adding...
As you clean up the past, you go,
hell, what am I going to stay up all night over?
I know.
So you create some new messes that you can sit and think about.
And when you really get used to making fun of yourself,
which is inventory,
this thing becomes a game.
I can't believe you're up to that.
I mean, you're talking back and forth.
You're trying to set me up to do this.
Well, you fell for it last month.
Oh, this is on the inside.
This is the best question in the box.
It's on humility, oddly enough.
Okay.
Okay, Sandy.
What single event or circumstances
triggered your desire to connect with this force
at such a deeper level?
Well, that is a good question.
What single event or circumstance?
I've just had some things happen
probably around 30 years.
Somewhere in there.
I was always on this path,
but then I had things happen.
Just to me.
And I've had amazing experiences with trees.
Just seeing energy out of trees
that just took my breath away.
And certain places that I've been
where suddenly that location was just overpowering,
filled with different colors.
And it was just,
amazing.
And I normally don't talk about this very much,
but one time I was going on a trip
and I was packing and shaving
and I looked in the mirror
and my face was a mask.
It was very cleverly put on there.
And I could tell it was me.
And I must have looked about eight times.
It didn't bother me.
It didn't take me long.
It didn't take me long.
It didn't take me long.
It didn't take me long.
It didn't take me long.
It didn't take me long.
It didn't take me long.
It didn't take me up.
But I knew my eyes
were the eyes of the spiritual being
having a human experience.
And it stayed there the whole morning.
And after a while I just said,
oh, that's interesting.
This is...
So I went to the airport and I got checked in
and then I was sitting around
and everybody in the airport
had the same thing.
And I found myself staring at them.
And then I saw them staring back at me.
And I said, oh, you got to stop doing that.
And then it went away.
And I've been awakened in the night
and just with overwhelming senses of well-being,
just, oh, my God, I don't even want to go back to sleep.
And so I think it was somewhere around...
I had more progress between ages 37 to 40 years.
than I had in the first 37 years.
Just happening, happening.
So it's probably the result
of doing the legwork
and then it showed up.
And so your 12 and 12 talks about that,
that this all spiritual awakenings
is a gift from God.
But we have to prepare ourselves to receive it.
Otherwise, it can't be delivered.
And I remember many years ago
using the analogy of moving out in the country
and out there you have to set up,
remember, a post box on a post
that has to be on a certain side of the road
and if you got mail, you put the flag up
and it has to be a certain size and all of that
or you don't get mail.
And so the practicing alcoholics said,
I can't, that's too much freaking work.
Just throw it on the yard.
And the post office said,
we're not going to take this guy's mail
and throw it on the yard.
So they don't throw it on the yard.
And as the months go by, he says,
nobody's writing me anymore.
His sense was, there is no mail coming
and we can have the sense there is no God
because we haven't done the work
so that it can be delivered.
So all the,
presents, the spiritual,
not presents see,
but presents like Christmas presents
that are waiting
cannot be delivered yet.
The delivery place has to be prepared
and that's what I think happened
was that I,
so you must just keep going
and look at the great line in the promises.
They will always materialize
if we work for them,
which means if we,
if we prepare ourselves for them,
always materialize.
And that's,
what a beautiful spiritual word,
materialize.
What, out of thin air?
Yes.
Out of thin air.
So,
anyway, that's what,
oh, and you know,
in meeting Chuck Chamberlain,
I mean, I could name,
but those are the,
when it was the things
that happened to me personally
that just took away all,
all doubt that this whole
fourth dimension of existence is real.
God, I'm having a hard time.
I hate,
I just can't read this.
Oh, I have something,
a progressive illness
and I'm concerned about Medicaid,
medications.
Okay, so we don't have to know
exactly what that is.
And my emotional sobriety.
My ability to concentrate is declining
and I may need to take
stimulant medication
in order to be able to further
function well at work.
I'm also struggling with the idea
of being disordered.
It is okay
on a partial disability
to take the,
the insurance my company
provides for this.
How does this fit in
with the seventh tradition?
I'm not sure I understand
the whole thing.
If you don't mind,
whoever wrote this,
could we talk together afterwards?
And let me just have you
flesh this out a little bit.
If it's about medications,
there are times
when we have to take medications.
We have to take pain medications,
we have illnesses,
and they,
the medications could easily
interfere with
our connection
with other people
and with God and all that.
And it's just,
it's sometimes we have to do it.
It's just,
but if it's done with,
if it's done with your friends around you,
if it's done with doctors
who understand addiction,
et cetera,
but I don't know
if that's the thrust of that.
So if it's all right,
whoever wrote that,
we'll find ten minutes
and sit together.
Okay?
What is the process of forgiveness?
How do we forgive
and receive the peace of forgiveness
instead of stuffing of resentment?
Okay.
I was going to work this in,
so I'm glad it came up.
I mean,
I've had a lot of
breakthroughs on this
because, you know,
last year I had one daughter murdered
and one daughter died of alcoholism,
so there's an opportunity there
for forgiveness.
And some of the lessons
I learned out of it,
I would decide this weekend
that you are now
a forgiving person.
And if the most outrageous,
unfair thing at work happened
where they picked some other guy,
totally unqualified,
kicked your butt out,
didn't give you the money
they promised you,
and job prospects really suck,
you're going to forgive them.
You're just going to decide now
that you are a forgiving person.
Okay?
It will prepare you
for when these type of events happen
if you have decided ahead of time.
Because that's what I did.
I saw people
forgiving outrageous things
years before,
and I went,
how did they do that?
I couldn't even conceive of doing that.
Forgiving somebody
who murdered your son
the very same day
you're forgiving him?
What is that all about?
But I saw the peace
on this woman's face
and I just raised my sights.
Do you follow what I'm saying?
I'm going to take my forgiveness
up to here.
I didn't know you could
take it up there.
And so you can picture the most,
whatever you feel
could never be forgiven
and decide today to forgive that
in case it ever happens.
And you're going to see
the small stuff,
that comes up
is going to be so easy.
So,
there's a saying to
err is human,
to forgive is divine.
All humans
screw up
and make mistakes
and do mean things
and do unconscionable things.
That's the nature of being human.
And if we went back to our record,
there are things,
in my fifth step,
that I ain't talking about here.
Do you follow what I'm saying?
Who hasn't done something
really outrageous
or thought about it
or whatever?
So if that's the nature
of human beings,
then the God part of us
is where the forgiveness is.
So in order to forgive,
we move up one level
with inside ourselves.
Here's the ego.
Don't screw with me.
That's operating down here.
And when something happens
to that part of us,
I'm going to get you.
But what happens
to this part of us,
it's totally understanding,
forgiving,
and you can let go of it.
The other thing is,
and this is very important,
when you receive,
receive the disturbing news.
Whether your brother
was killed in an automobile accident.
Let's say you got a phone call.
Larry, Joe was just killed.
Drunk driver killed him dead.
And you got the phone in your hand.
You all know there's about
a quarter, half second
before you react to it.
Do you relate?
Sometimes you go sit down,
before you let it sink in.
It isn't automatic.
There is that time.
Use that time
before you react to it
to turn to God
and say,
God, before I react to this,
I just want to assure you
this is not going to change
how I feel about you.
Do you see how important that is?
This awful thing,
I'm about to react to,
would never change
how I feel about you.
You're more important than everything.
My relationship with you
is the top up here.
And I want to just let you know
how much I love you
and how I am going to stay
connected to you.
Thank you.
Now I'm going to go sit down
and guess who comes with you.
Guess who you just invited in
to sit with you
as you
let it sink in.
Let it sink in.
Let it sink in.
Let it sink in.
Let it sink in.
Let it sink in.
Let it sink in.
Let it all in.
And you just feel the comfort
protecting you
as you feel the sorrow.
And you don't feel angry
at the driver.
You don't have hatred.
You don't have resentment.
You just have sorrow.
And sorrow,
God can help you with.
Hatred, you're on your own.
Go ahead.
You want to hate?
Go ahead.
If you'd like to get rid of it
and forget it,
and forgive,
fine.
Then God will step in.
So we sentence ourselves
to three times the pain
that we're supposed to feel,
which is from sorrow.
We're just supposed to feel sorrow.
So the involvement of God
is crucial because
most times
the lower level part of us
will be mad at God.
How could God let my brother die?
So now we've cut God off.
We're mad at him.
Now we're mad at the driver.
And you can see
the house of cards
that's going to fall on our heads.
So that's some thoughts
on forgiveness.
It's the high level
and it's not talked about enough
in AA.
It's in St. Francis' prayer
and it's in
when we're going to make amends,
let's start out by forgiving
them one and all.
But it's not a big topic
that we should spend.
And so here we can have
an environment
and get spiritual literature
and start conceptualizing.
But I would say
if you just said,
I am now going to be,
move up to this level,
the spirit level,
and just say,
I am going to forgive.
That's me.
I am the forgiver.
And watch
how your next year goes.
Glad that question came up.
Oh boy.
These are something.
In chapter 11 to 12 and 12,
it has the prayer of St. Francis.
The last line is,
it is by dying that one awakens
to eternal life.
Or in the Sandy B. version,
life eternal.
Well, St. Francis had it screwed up.
He did.
There's no doubt.
Couldn't resist.
I probably do say it wrong.
Can you please give us
your interpretation of that line?
Well, of course,
when you were new,
we go,
holy cow.
I have to be murdered
in order to wake into life eternal.
St. Francis realized
he has a very interesting life.
And if you get a chance
to read any of the biographies of him,
he's just,
what a character.
And he ended up
seeing
that his ego
was
standing between him
and God.
And he just set out
on a course of action
of unselfishness
and ego diminishing
that was rather extreme
in terms of self-sacrifice,
giving,
your clothes to other people,
devoting all your attention,
begging in the streets
to get money to give to others.
And as he progressed
in this direction
of removing the ego,
which is what the dying process here
is talking about,
it's the death of the ego,
death of the part of us
that is separate from God.
And he got as close
as probably most people
could ever get.
And when he did,
the energy coming out of him
was so powerful
that people just like to stand around
and be in his presence.
And I've heard people say that
about the Dalai Lama
and some other people
that just being able
to be near the energy.
And you feel the energy in AA.
You feel certain,
you can feel spiritual energy.
And of course,
he's portrayed with the animals
are coming out of the woods
just wanting to stand there
and birds sitting on his shoulder
and all this.
So he wrote the prayer
as his recollection
of the steps
that allow this process
to kill the ego.
So it is by dying
unto God
that you will be
connected to life eternal
and you will realize
that you never die.
Do you see what I'm saying?
You will,
by totally moving,
we just talked about forgiveness
and moving from the gut level
up to the spiritual level.
So as we move up here,
the old ideas about forgiveness die.
They're gone.
So that piece of the ego is gone.
So we just,
we just entered into a dying.
It's by dying out
the old ideas about forgiveness.
It is by killing this,
getting rid of that.
Hal Marley used to always talk about
the topic was
at a discussion meeting
was killing the ego.
And so they're going around the room.
Well, this way
and I try to get rid of that
and this and that.
And some guy comes in late
and he turns to a newcomer
and he says,
what's the topic?
And the newcomer said,
suicide.
Because when we're all ego,
it looks like suicide.
It looks like everything there is
is going to be gone.
But as you make spiritual progress
and you can see
your spiritual entity
becoming bigger
and you're more in touch
with it,
then we understand
that if this part,
the more it dies,
the more we're connected
to life eternal.
So it's,
that's what he's talking about.
Oh.
This must be good.
Does it hurt you
to bend over anymore?
Oh.
Wow.
We worked that out
ahead of time.
Your description
of the illusion
of each individual
having a story
that makes him or her
separate from the rest
of the universe
is very similar
to a basic core teaching
of Buddhism.
They call the removal
of that illusion
non-duality.
Can you comment on that?
Couldn't agree more.
Couldn't agree more.
That is precisely
the reason
precisely the same thing.
Absolutely.
And,
I mean,
once duality is gone,
you have solved
the mystery of life.
There's nothing left to do
but exist and
enjoy God
and the universe,
which is the way
I believe it was set up.
I'll talk about it
on Sunday morning,
but,
that's the way
I believe
was set up
was this
wondrous
world and universe
was put together
for us to enjoy
and we're so damn busy
with a hangnail
that we missed the show.
We just missed the show.
Yeah, but I'll watch it
as soon as I get rid of this.
I mean,
there isn't a bigger show
than this one.
So anyway,
yes,
that's perfect.
There's no difference at all.
How do you handle
someone with time?
Five plus years.
That's not time.
You remember Clancy
when he had 20 years,
he wouldn't let somebody
with 15 years
get his coffee
and then when he had
40 years,
he wouldn't let somebody
with 15 years
in the room.
Okay, so I understand.
How do we have
somebody who has time
who ought to know better
who wants you to sponsor them
and take them
through the steps
again?
I would say
you would have to be
comfortable with that.
It's not that it's
right or wrong.
It's that
if you feel
that this is meant to be
and that you'll enjoy it
and you can see
that it would be helpful,
then you can get over
the awkwardness
of someone
who has more time than you
wanting you to help them.
But if you're uncomfortable with it,
it's probably not going to
work out too good.
So,
pray about it
and think about it,
but I don't think it fits
in a wrong or right category.
I think this is case by case.
Sometimes it will be
a good idea
and sometimes it won't.
Somebody who's been around
a long, long time
and their sponsor
suddenly disappears,
they almost always
have to find somebody
to bounce things off of
that has less time
because there isn't
anybody left.
Good question.
Okay.
What part of the retreat
is tax deductible?
Did you write that?
No.
Oh, that's great.
I can't even think
of a great answer.
Although I haven't paid
for this tip,
I don't have a t-shirt yet.
I hope that's not
a serious question.
How can I seek?
I love simple questions
like that.
How can I seek?
We forget
there's a word
that has so much power
and we forget
how powerful it is
and it's in the third step.
We made a decision
to turn our will
and our lives
over the care of God.
That's how you seek.
You make a decision
to become a seeker.
You know what I mean?
Just think
when you were going to
maybe you wanted
to become a CPA.
You see, you know,
I'd like to become a CPA.
I'm going to do that.
You know, you talk it
with your family.
You know what I'm going to do?
I'm going to become a CPA.
I'm going to do that.
So far, nothing has happened.
We know what CPA stands for.
Oh, yeah, there's a school
down the street.
They actually have classes.
We still, nothing has happened.
And one night you say
and you make a decision
to get a CPA
and you pick up a book.
And you pick up a book.
And you pick up a book.
And you pick up a book.
And you pick up a book.
And you pick up the phone
and you call,
I'd like to register
at your school.
What do I fill out?
The decision
starts the ball on going.
So if you decide,
just like I said,
decide today
to be a high-level
forgiveness person.
You decide to seek
and it'll all happen.
You'll suddenly pick up
a book back there
that really talks to you.
You'll suddenly find yourself
looking in the paper
in your hometown.
Somebody's coming
to give you a book.
They'll give a talk
on meditation.
Oh yeah,
a seeker would go to that.
I'm a seeker.
You make this decision
and the whole
world opens up
that was there all along
before you made the decision.
So I would say
that's the crucial,
crucial thing
is decide.
And things will just
start unfolding.
Here's another question.
Question on the last line
of St. Francis.
It's by dying
that one awakens
to eternal life.
Is there really
life after death?
Okay, the answer to that
has to be experienced.
And I'm not joking.
You have to engage
in the spiritual seeking,
the meditation,
the contemplation,
the prayer,
and see it as a way
to see if
that answer
is revealed to you.
And when it is,
that'll be the end of that.
And you will know for sure
that there is this
fourth dimension of existence.
But you won't be able
to prove it to anybody else.
Do you follow what I'm saying?
This is not something
where you just,
I read something up here
and then everybody
in the room goes,
oh yeah, I see.
It's not an intellectual thing.
It is, would you like
to find out?
Here's how you can find out
for yourself.
And when it's revealed to you,
you will just go,
oh yeah.
I am now absolutely sure
of that.
But nobody could convince you.
Do you see the difference?
You have to seek.
And when it's time,
it'll be revealed.
And then you'll just know.
It'll just be there.
Okay?
Besides staying sober,
being in a responsible
home group member,
being a responsible
home group member,
what can I do
to help our service structure
stay viable?
That's a really complicated
question for me to answer.
Because most people
in AA
don't,
they don't see
this as even a problem.
Because they're busy
in their home group,
they're busy sobering up people,
they're busy doing things
and all of that.
So the,
here's my answer
if you are
trying to work on this.
And it's not that good an answer,
but it's the best damn answer
I can come up with.
If you are
on a spiritual path
and you're being
tugged to get off it
by the ego
or whatever we want to call this,
and we're going to live
and stay,
the more you go down
the spiritual path,
the narrower it gets.
What used to be acceptable
when you had one year's sobriety,
so I take a few
government pens
and bring them home.
And I,
you know,
what the hell,
this is lying around,
doesn't count,
doesn't count.
You're going to find
after five years,
I think I'll leave
the government pens there.
You see what I mean?
You're narrowing
what's acceptable
for you personally.
But the instinctual drives
are still operating.
And maybe
you're at work
and you,
did I talk about this earlier?
And you
decide to go over
and just flirt
a little bit
with the secretary
just for the fun of it.
Even your wife would see
it's just kidding.
And you just have
this little joke
and then you stop.
You would call that
a half of a degree
course correction.
I just slid
this tiny,
tiny much
off of
the spiritual path.
And you know what happens.
It just,
as time goes on,
you're further out here
just by making
the tiniest little
exception
in what would be
what we know
should be done.
And as we
allow that to happen,
then we
become more flexible
in allowing other things
to happen.
And suddenly,
we're engaged
in things
and finally our sponsor
goes,
stop this,
stop that,
stop this,
get back,
all right,
boom,
and we're back.
So you see,
the tiniest little thing
will cause us
to get off
the spiritual course.
If that can happen
to a human being,
it can happen
to an AA group.
It could just happen
with the tiniest
little thing.
I'm just making
something up.
An old timer says,
look,
my mother,
is going to be
in town for
two months.
She's not an alcoholic.
She's an old lady.
Could she come
to our closed meeting?
And we go,
what harm could that do?
You follow what I'm saying?
So it's closed meeting
with an exception.
So then somebody comes
who's a gambler
and says,
well, you let an old lady in,
why can't a gambler come?
Well, if a gambler comes,
why can't this guy come?
Well, you know what I mean?
You just went,
and then off we went.
I'm just,
there's other ways
that a group
can get off
a spiritual path
and become something else,
an intellectual discussion group,
whatever the hell
you want to call it.
So if a group can do that,
so could AA itself.
It could just
sit and go,
we need more members.
I'm just making something up.
We need more members.
Our membership isn't growing fast.
We're shrinking a little bit.
What can we do
to increase membership?
Well, we could not frighten people away
with telling, you know,
they think AA is too religious.
We could make it look more philosophical
than it is.
We could do this.
We could do that.
Maybe good motives, whatever.
So what I'm proposing is,
we need a navigation aid
that'll keep us on course
as individuals, groups,
and the fellowship as a whole.
And I would say that it's very simple.
One problem, one solution.
Alcoholism, God.
That's it.
So my, I'm an alcoholic.
And I have a perfect solution.
To find God.
And that's the end of the ball game.
And if we are trying to navigate
to accommodate anything else,
it's, we've started leaving,
and who knows where it'll take us.
That's enough on that.
I could talk for several hours.
What are your thoughts about evil?
Oh.
I love evil.
I was giving a talk on forgiveness
at the Tampa Fall Roundup.
I don't know why this reminded me of it.
I'm going to be serious about this question.
But it was on forgiveness.
And I pulled the question out,
and it said, what about Hitler?
And I thought about it,
and I realized that's the exact question
I would have written
if some guy was up there preaching forgiveness.
I was going to show him,
what about Hitler?
And so I said, ah, the loophole question.
We got to find a loophole in this forgiveness thing,
and Hitler's probably a good way to create a loophole.
Once we create a loophole that you don't forgive Hitler,
then I won't have to forgive my brother-in-law.
So I said, I forgive Hitler.
So that closed that.
So I don't know.
Evil makes me think of Hitler.
So what are your thoughts about evil?
Do you believe evil exists?
What does one do about it?
Okay, so here you can see I'm going to deviate
from religions quite a bit,
and I don't believe it exists.
And I'm sure you're going, well, you're wrong.
I probably am, but let me tell you what I think.
I don't believe that darkness exists.
Darkness cannot come into this room
while the lights are on,
and we won't be able to see each other.
The lights have to go out for darkness to exist.
So darkness is not an entity unto itself.
It's merely the absence of light.
There's only light, or the absence of light.
There's no force called darkness that can come in
and overpower light.
Do you see what I mean?
So there's only one thing, light, or the absence.
So there's only one thing, love,
or the absence of light.
Or the absence of love.
And in the absence,
we have this label that we could call evil.
And so it is,
we get so far away from God
that we think we've encountered evil,
when in reality it's simply,
there's no connection left,
there's nothing but self-centeredness
and the instinctual drives running the whole show.
And it looks like evil took over.
But as we turn around and come back,
we start seeing evil,
whatever we would call that,
losing its power until it just doesn't exist.
But somehow you have to explain
all the horrible things that happen,
and I could see where that's a good way of saying,
well, there's evil and it goes around the world
and it does all these things.
But in my own life,
which is the only reference point I have,
I really don't see evil knocking on my door
and saying, I'm here, you're through.
It is all connected to,
conscious contact and conscious separation.
And conscious separation will create something
that you could call evil,
which is removed when you have conscious contact.
So that's,
and I hope the churches will forgive me.
What is self-consciousness?
Well, I don't know what it's going to say in the dictionary,
but we have different,
we have different ways.
One is an inordinate
awareness of our self,
so that as we proceed along,
we're just measuring
how people are reacting to us.
And their reaction causes us
all kinds of adverse feelings
and we struggle to cause behaviors in others
so that we get approval
and all of that.
I'm just so self-conscious.
I'm so aware of me and my feelings
everywhere I go.
Now the other thing would be the conscious,
if we could become conscious
of our true selves,
then that would be a huge positive thing.
That is really the point.
As we discover God,
we discover our true selves
and they all merge into one.
So I see two sides to that.
Are we near the end?
We're at the end.
I just got the flag from the back.
We are now calling this session to an end
and thank you all for your attention
and great questions.
And as you can see from the schedule, there's a lot of free time. There was plenty of time
this morning. We got about 45, 50 minutes of answering questions and then a big break.
And during that time, they'll be showing Chuck Chamberlain a DVD here. Or you can watch
Wander, whatever. None of this is mandatory or anything. So I hope you enjoy that.
Now, when you get down to questions and answers, you learn a lot of things if you are around
sessions like this. I love the Brentwood group out in California. They have a beginner's
thing where you talk for 20, 30 minutes and then they stand up and ask questions of old
timers. And Chuck C. used to go.
And you'd be able to ask him a question.
If we did this next week, this same box of questions, you might hear different answers
from me than you hear today. And if you had your sponsor come up and do it, you might
hear different answers. A lot of them are going to seem the same. But you've got to
realize that the answer that I'm going to give is going to come from my perception.
Part of the fun of question and answers, and today I'm going to take about 10 or 15
seconds after I read the question, is for you to sort of go, okay. And then you hear
another perspective on it. And when you combine the two, you really get to see something even
beyond that.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
And that's the fun. That's why that book, I Am That, has always intrigued me because
the awakened person in India and people come to ask him questions, spiritual seekers from
all over the world. So you get to read the question that this stupid guy from England
asked. And then you go, God, I could answer that. And so you form the answer. Then you
read and you go, God, I could answer that. And so you read and you go, God, I could answer
that. And so you go, God, I could answer that. And so you go, God, I could answer that.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, wow.
Wow.
Wow.
Never would have seen it that way. So that's why I think it's fun to have these sessions.
So we'll start out randomly.
We could do the Karnak.
You remember Karnak?
Goodyear tires.
What was Mrs. Goodyear's biggest complaint?
Okay.
Boy, these are going to be funny answers.
Where does letting go of a resentment for my sanity end and being like a doormat start?
And how do I know the difference to choose the right action?
Today, I've...
I've...
I've...
I feel the answer is you have to work with your sponsor and with the program to stop feeling like a doormat.
Otherwise, everything that you do is going to make you feel like a doormat.
In other words, there's an underlying problem.
It's almost like you have to stop drinking first in order for something to happen.
So, if the center of you feels like a doormat, every act of forgiveness...
This is going to reinforce your feeling.
Or every act of getting rid of a resentment is going to feel like you're just adding to the doormat feeling.
So, you...
That's why you're afraid...
You feel already ahead of time.
If I do that, I'll feel like a doormat.
And that's not who we are.
So, that's...
Whoever it is, I would just say that is...
Just get down with your sponsor and go, what is this doormat thing?
And it's extreme self-centeredness.
In other words, everything revolves around me.
And I'm being...
Every action that people take is to make me feel less than I am.
That whole thing.
So, I would say that's...
You really can't accomplish anything until you can move off the center of being a doormat.
Okay.
Okay.
What is...
What's in a spiritual...
What's in a spiritual toolbox?
Well, there's a...
Now, that's a great question.
I bet if we went around the room, we'd get all kinds of different answers.
What's in a spiritual toolbox?
Okay.
I'll give you a two-word answer.
Power tools.
They have to be plugged in.
Do you see what...
In other words, they're plugged into God.
That gives them the power to work.
So, when we pick up this simple kit of tools, you got to remember that the purpose is they're plugged in.
Now, you go about whatever you're doing, whether it's taking an inventory, whether it's sharing.
You want to...
You want to...
You want to...
You want to be plugged into God.
You might just always...
That's why we start the prayers.
Let me be of judge service and turn my life over.
And it's connected there.
Now, the tools can be properly used and we'll get the results they're supposed to get.
And we forget that.
The ego wants us to forget that.
And it just says, well, I guess I got to get over that resentment.
I'll just forgive them.
I'll do that.
And all that.
But it's got to be plugged in.
So, that's my...
Now, if you want to know what is specifically in there, I would put at the top of the list the main tool,
the main course of action of all of Alcoholics Anonymous, letting go.
What are you working on?
Well, I'm all upset.
Get...
Throw it away.
Let go.
Come back tomorrow.
See what's been done with it.
But you cannot be helped.
You cannot be helped with anything until you let it go.
Top of the list of the tools of AA.
What do you think of long-distance sponsorship?
I've heard great reports.
You've got to realize these are individual decisions.
I personally don't do it.
I have to see the people.
That's just me.
I want to see their eyes at meetings.
I don't...
I don't sponsor people unless they're going to at least one or two meetings that I go to every week.
Now, if an old-timer in Chicago wants to call me and say,
can I call you once in a while and get your feedback on something, I go, great, yes.
But it's not a sponsorship relationship.
I just somehow have put that in my head.
That means I see you so that I can ask you what's the matter.
And on the phone sometimes I can't see your face.
And so...
But, I mean, Clancy must have pigeons all over the world.
And I'm sure some of you old-timers in here, yeah, I got guys.
I sponsor a guy in here and there.
I'm just telling you for myself, I'll be glad to have people ask questions and answer them.
But I don't...
Somebody called me from Washington, D.C. and said, could you be my sponsor?
I'd say,
no, but you can call me with questions.
So that's my take on that, which is just one of many.
I was going to wait to ask this, but...
Is procrastination a form of self-centeredness?
Um...
Um...
Um...
Um...
Um...
That's a fascinating question.
I haven't even thought about procrastination.
I guess I like the two-syllable word, lazy.
Yes, of course.
And I believe that the self-centered part of it is being a perfectionist.
And we just don't want to do anything until...
Until we're going to do it perfectly.
And since we can't do that and we're never really ready to.
And I would also say fear.
I just don't want to take a risk.
I don't want to take...
Step out of my comfort zone.
I know I'm funny.
I know I got a bunch of jokes.
But I'm not going to stop.
I'm not going to stand up at a comedy theater and find out.
And so I delay it.
I delay it.
And it's a way of working against your own best interest,
which, of course, is one of our specialties,
is to take courses of action that aren't going to work good for us
in case we were running out of things to worry about.
So this gives us a way of adding...
As you clean up the past, you go,
hell, what am I going to stay up all night over?
I know.
So you create some new messes that you can sit and think about.
And when you really get used to making fun of yourself,
which is inventory,
this thing becomes a game.
I can't believe you're up to that.
I mean, you're talking back and forth.
You're trying to set me up to do this.
Well, you fell for it last month.
Oh, this is on the inside.
This is the best question in the box.
It's on humility, oddly enough.
Okay.
Okay, Sandy.
What single event or circumstances
triggered your desire to connect with this force
at such a deeper level?
Well, that is a good question.
What single event or circumstance?
I've just had some things happen
probably around 30 years.
Somewhere in there.
I was always on this path,
but then I had things happen.
Just to me.
And I've had amazing experiences with trees.
Just seeing energy out of trees
that just took my breath away.
And certain places that I've been
where suddenly that location was just overpowering,
filled with different colors.
And it was just,
amazing.
And I normally don't talk about this very much,
but one time I was going on a trip
and I was packing and shaving
and I looked in the mirror
and my face was a mask.
It was very cleverly put on there.
And I could tell it was me.
And I must have looked about eight times.
It didn't bother me.
It didn't take me long.
It didn't take me long.
It didn't take me long.
It didn't take me long.
It didn't take me long.
It didn't take me long.
It didn't take me long.
It didn't take me up.
But I knew my eyes
were the eyes of the spiritual being
having a human experience.
And it stayed there the whole morning.
And after a while I just said,
oh, that's interesting.
This is...
So I went to the airport and I got checked in
and then I was sitting around
and everybody in the airport
had the same thing.
And I found myself staring at them.
And then I saw them staring back at me.
And I said, oh, you got to stop doing that.
And then it went away.
And I've been awakened in the night
and just with overwhelming senses of well-being,
just, oh, my God, I don't even want to go back to sleep.
And so I think it was somewhere around...
I had more progress between ages 37 to 40 years.
than I had in the first 37 years.
Just happening, happening.
So it's probably the result
of doing the legwork
and then it showed up.
And so your 12 and 12 talks about that,
that this all spiritual awakenings
is a gift from God.
But we have to prepare ourselves to receive it.
Otherwise, it can't be delivered.
And I remember many years ago
using the analogy of moving out in the country
and out there you have to set up,
remember, a post box on a post
that has to be on a certain side of the road
and if you got mail, you put the flag up
and it has to be a certain size and all of that
or you don't get mail.
And so the practicing alcoholics said,
I can't, that's too much freaking work.
Just throw it on the yard.
And the post office said,
we're not going to take this guy's mail
and throw it on the yard.
So they don't throw it on the yard.
And as the months go by, he says,
nobody's writing me anymore.
His sense was, there is no mail coming
and we can have the sense there is no God
because we haven't done the work
so that it can be delivered.
So all the,
presents, the spiritual,
not presents see,
but presents like Christmas presents
that are waiting
cannot be delivered yet.
The delivery place has to be prepared
and that's what I think happened
was that I,
so you must just keep going
and look at the great line in the promises.
They will always materialize
if we work for them,
which means if we,
if we prepare ourselves for them,
always materialize.
And that's,
what a beautiful spiritual word,
materialize.
What, out of thin air?
Yes.
Out of thin air.
So,
anyway, that's what,
oh, and you know,
in meeting Chuck Chamberlain,
I mean, I could name,
but those are the,
when it was the things
that happened to me personally
that just took away all,
all doubt that this whole
fourth dimension of existence is real.
God, I'm having a hard time.
I hate,
I just can't read this.
Oh, I have something,
a progressive illness
and I'm concerned about Medicaid,
medications.
Okay, so we don't have to know
exactly what that is.
And my emotional sobriety.
My ability to concentrate is declining
and I may need to take
stimulant medication
in order to be able to further
function well at work.
I'm also struggling with the idea
of being disordered.
It is okay
on a partial disability
to take the,
the insurance my company
provides for this.
How does this fit in
with the seventh tradition?
I'm not sure I understand
the whole thing.
If you don't mind,
whoever wrote this,
could we talk together afterwards?
And let me just have you
flesh this out a little bit.
If it's about medications,
there are times
when we have to take medications.
We have to take pain medications,
we have illnesses,
and they,
the medications could easily
interfere with
our connection
with other people
and with God and all that.
And it's just,
it's sometimes we have to do it.
It's just,
but if it's done with,
if it's done with your friends around you,
if it's done with doctors
who understand addiction,
et cetera,
but I don't know
if that's the thrust of that.
So if it's all right,
whoever wrote that,
we'll find ten minutes
and sit together.
Okay?
What is the process of forgiveness?
How do we forgive
and receive the peace of forgiveness
instead of stuffing of resentment?
Okay.
I was going to work this in,
so I'm glad it came up.
I mean,
I've had a lot of
breakthroughs on this
because, you know,
last year I had one daughter murdered
and one daughter died of alcoholism,
so there's an opportunity there
for forgiveness.
And some of the lessons
I learned out of it,
I would decide this weekend
that you are now
a forgiving person.
And if the most outrageous,
unfair thing at work happened
where they picked some other guy,
totally unqualified,
kicked your butt out,
didn't give you the money
they promised you,
and job prospects really suck,
you're going to forgive them.
You're just going to decide now
that you are a forgiving person.
Okay?
It will prepare you
for when these type of events happen
if you have decided ahead of time.
Because that's what I did.
I saw people
forgiving outrageous things
years before,
and I went,
how did they do that?
I couldn't even conceive of doing that.
Forgiving somebody
who murdered your son
the very same day
you're forgiving him?
What is that all about?
But I saw the peace
on this woman's face
and I just raised my sights.
Do you follow what I'm saying?
I'm going to take my forgiveness
up to here.
I didn't know you could
take it up there.
And so you can picture the most,
whatever you feel
could never be forgiven
and decide today to forgive that
in case it ever happens.
And you're going to see
the small stuff,
that comes up
is going to be so easy.
So,
there's a saying to
err is human,
to forgive is divine.
All humans
screw up
and make mistakes
and do mean things
and do unconscionable things.
That's the nature of being human.
And if we went back to our record,
there are things,
in my fifth step,
that I ain't talking about here.
Do you follow what I'm saying?
Who hasn't done something
really outrageous
or thought about it
or whatever?
So if that's the nature
of human beings,
then the God part of us
is where the forgiveness is.
So in order to forgive,
we move up one level
with inside ourselves.
Here's the ego.
Don't screw with me.
That's operating down here.
And when something happens
to that part of us,
I'm going to get you.
But what happens
to this part of us,
it's totally understanding,
forgiving,
and you can let go of it.
The other thing is,
and this is very important,
when you receive,
receive the disturbing news.
Whether your brother
was killed in an automobile accident.
Let's say you got a phone call.
Larry, Joe was just killed.
Drunk driver killed him dead.
And you got the phone in your hand.
You all know there's about
a quarter, half second
before you react to it.
Do you relate?
Sometimes you go sit down,
before you let it sink in.
It isn't automatic.
There is that time.
Use that time
before you react to it
to turn to God
and say,
God, before I react to this,
I just want to assure you
this is not going to change
how I feel about you.
Do you see how important that is?
This awful thing,
I'm about to react to,
would never change
how I feel about you.
You're more important than everything.
My relationship with you
is the top up here.
And I want to just let you know
how much I love you
and how I am going to stay
connected to you.
Thank you.
Now I'm going to go sit down
and guess who comes with you.
Guess who you just invited in
to sit with you
as you
let it sink in.
Let it sink in.
Let it sink in.
Let it sink in.
Let it sink in.
Let it sink in.
Let it sink in.
Let it all in.
And you just feel the comfort
protecting you
as you feel the sorrow.
And you don't feel angry
at the driver.
You don't have hatred.
You don't have resentment.
You just have sorrow.
And sorrow,
God can help you with.
Hatred, you're on your own.
Go ahead.
You want to hate?
Go ahead.
If you'd like to get rid of it
and forget it,
and forgive,
fine.
Then God will step in.
So we sentence ourselves
to three times the pain
that we're supposed to feel,
which is from sorrow.
We're just supposed to feel sorrow.
So the involvement of God
is crucial because
most times
the lower level part of us
will be mad at God.
How could God let my brother die?
So now we've cut God off.
We're mad at him.
Now we're mad at the driver.
And you can see
the house of cards
that's going to fall on our heads.
So that's some thoughts
on forgiveness.
It's the high level
and it's not talked about enough
in AA.
It's in St. Francis' prayer
and it's in
when we're going to make amends,
let's start out by forgiving
them one and all.
But it's not a big topic
that we should spend.
And so here we can have
an environment
and get spiritual literature
and start conceptualizing.
But I would say
if you just said,
I am now going to be,
move up to this level,
the spirit level,
and just say,
I am going to forgive.
That's me.
I am the forgiver.
And watch
how your next year goes.
Glad that question came up.
Oh boy.
These are something.
In chapter 11 to 12 and 12,
it has the prayer of St. Francis.
The last line is,
it is by dying that one awakens
to eternal life.
Or in the Sandy B. version,
life eternal.
Well, St. Francis had it screwed up.
He did.
There's no doubt.
Couldn't resist.
I probably do say it wrong.
Can you please give us
your interpretation of that line?
Well, of course,
when you were new,
we go,
holy cow.
I have to be murdered
in order to wake into life eternal.
St. Francis realized
he has a very interesting life.
And if you get a chance
to read any of the biographies of him,
he's just,
what a character.
And he ended up
seeing
that his ego
was
standing between him
and God.
And he just set out
on a course of action
of unselfishness
and ego diminishing
that was rather extreme
in terms of self-sacrifice,
giving,
your clothes to other people,
devoting all your attention,
begging in the streets
to get money to give to others.
And as he progressed
in this direction
of removing the ego,
which is what the dying process here
is talking about,
it's the death of the ego,
death of the part of us
that is separate from God.
And he got as close
as probably most people
could ever get.
And when he did,
the energy coming out of him
was so powerful
that people just like to stand around
and be in his presence.
And I've heard people say that
about the Dalai Lama
and some other people
that just being able
to be near the energy.
And you feel the energy in AA.
You feel certain,
you can feel spiritual energy.
And of course,
he's portrayed with the animals
are coming out of the woods
just wanting to stand there
and birds sitting on his shoulder
and all this.
So he wrote the prayer
as his recollection
of the steps
that allow this process
to kill the ego.
So it is by dying
unto God
that you will be
connected to life eternal
and you will realize
that you never die.
Do you see what I'm saying?
You will,
by totally moving,
we just talked about forgiveness
and moving from the gut level
up to the spiritual level.
So as we move up here,
the old ideas about forgiveness die.
They're gone.
So that piece of the ego is gone.
So we just,
we just entered into a dying.
It's by dying out
the old ideas about forgiveness.
It is by killing this,
getting rid of that.
Hal Marley used to always talk about
the topic was
at a discussion meeting
was killing the ego.
And so they're going around the room.
Well, this way
and I try to get rid of that
and this and that.
And some guy comes in late
and he turns to a newcomer
and he says,
what's the topic?
And the newcomer said,
suicide.
Because when we're all ego,
it looks like suicide.
It looks like everything there is
is going to be gone.
But as you make spiritual progress
and you can see
your spiritual entity
becoming bigger
and you're more in touch
with it,
then we understand
that if this part,
the more it dies,
the more we're connected
to life eternal.
So it's,
that's what he's talking about.
Oh.
This must be good.
Does it hurt you
to bend over anymore?
Oh.
Wow.
We worked that out
ahead of time.
Your description
of the illusion
of each individual
having a story
that makes him or her
separate from the rest
of the universe
is very similar
to a basic core teaching
of Buddhism.
They call the removal
of that illusion
non-duality.
Can you comment on that?
Couldn't agree more.
Couldn't agree more.
That is precisely
the reason
precisely the same thing.
Absolutely.
And,
I mean,
once duality is gone,
you have solved
the mystery of life.
There's nothing left to do
but exist and
enjoy God
and the universe,
which is the way
I believe it was set up.
I'll talk about it
on Sunday morning,
but,
that's the way
I believe
was set up
was this
wondrous
world and universe
was put together
for us to enjoy
and we're so damn busy
with a hangnail
that we missed the show.
We just missed the show.
Yeah, but I'll watch it
as soon as I get rid of this.
I mean,
there isn't a bigger show
than this one.
So anyway,
yes,
that's perfect.
There's no difference at all.
How do you handle
someone with time?
Five plus years.
That's not time.
You remember Clancy
when he had 20 years,
he wouldn't let somebody
with 15 years
get his coffee
and then when he had
40 years,
he wouldn't let somebody
with 15 years
in the room.
Okay, so I understand.
How do we have
somebody who has time
who ought to know better
who wants you to sponsor them
and take them
through the steps
again?
I would say
you would have to be
comfortable with that.
It's not that it's
right or wrong.
It's that
if you feel
that this is meant to be
and that you'll enjoy it
and you can see
that it would be helpful,
then you can get over
the awkwardness
of someone
who has more time than you
wanting you to help them.
But if you're uncomfortable with it,
it's probably not going to
work out too good.
So,
pray about it
and think about it,
but I don't think it fits
in a wrong or right category.
I think this is case by case.
Sometimes it will be
a good idea
and sometimes it won't.
Somebody who's been around
a long, long time
and their sponsor
suddenly disappears,
they almost always
have to find somebody
to bounce things off of
that has less time
because there isn't
anybody left.
Good question.
Okay.
What part of the retreat
is tax deductible?
Did you write that?
No.
Oh, that's great.
I can't even think
of a great answer.
Although I haven't paid
for this tip,
I don't have a t-shirt yet.
I hope that's not
a serious question.
How can I seek?
I love simple questions
like that.
How can I seek?
We forget
there's a word
that has so much power
and we forget
how powerful it is
and it's in the third step.
We made a decision
to turn our will
and our lives
over the care of God.
That's how you seek.
You make a decision
to become a seeker.
You know what I mean?
Just think
when you were going to
maybe you wanted
to become a CPA.
You see, you know,
I'd like to become a CPA.
I'm going to do that.
You know, you talk it
with your family.
You know what I'm going to do?
I'm going to become a CPA.
I'm going to do that.
So far, nothing has happened.
We know what CPA stands for.
Oh, yeah, there's a school
down the street.
They actually have classes.
We still, nothing has happened.
And one night you say
and you make a decision
to get a CPA
and you pick up a book.
And you pick up a book.
And you pick up a book.
And you pick up a book.
And you pick up a book.
And you pick up the phone
and you call,
I'd like to register
at your school.
What do I fill out?
The decision
starts the ball on going.
So if you decide,
just like I said,
decide today
to be a high-level
forgiveness person.
You decide to seek
and it'll all happen.
You'll suddenly pick up
a book back there
that really talks to you.
You'll suddenly find yourself
looking in the paper
in your hometown.
Somebody's coming
to give you a book.
They'll give a talk
on meditation.
Oh yeah,
a seeker would go to that.
I'm a seeker.
You make this decision
and the whole
world opens up
that was there all along
before you made the decision.
So I would say
that's the crucial,
crucial thing
is decide.
And things will just
start unfolding.
Here's another question.
Question on the last line
of St. Francis.
It's by dying
that one awakens
to eternal life.
Is there really
life after death?
Okay, the answer to that
has to be experienced.
And I'm not joking.
You have to engage
in the spiritual seeking,
the meditation,
the contemplation,
the prayer,
and see it as a way
to see if
that answer
is revealed to you.
And when it is,
that'll be the end of that.
And you will know for sure
that there is this
fourth dimension of existence.
But you won't be able
to prove it to anybody else.
Do you follow what I'm saying?
This is not something
where you just,
I read something up here
and then everybody
in the room goes,
oh yeah, I see.
It's not an intellectual thing.
It is, would you like
to find out?
Here's how you can find out
for yourself.
And when it's revealed to you,
you will just go,
oh yeah.
I am now absolutely sure
of that.
But nobody could convince you.
Do you see the difference?
You have to seek.
And when it's time,
it'll be revealed.
And then you'll just know.
It'll just be there.
Okay?
Besides staying sober,
being in a responsible
home group member,
being a responsible
home group member,
what can I do
to help our service structure
stay viable?
That's a really complicated
question for me to answer.
Because most people
in AA
don't,
they don't see
this as even a problem.
Because they're busy
in their home group,
they're busy sobering up people,
they're busy doing things
and all of that.
So the,
here's my answer
if you are
trying to work on this.
And it's not that good an answer,
but it's the best damn answer
I can come up with.
If you are
on a spiritual path
and you're being
tugged to get off it
by the ego
or whatever we want to call this,
and we're going to live
and stay,
the more you go down
the spiritual path,
the narrower it gets.
What used to be acceptable
when you had one year's sobriety,
so I take a few
government pens
and bring them home.
And I,
you know,
what the hell,
this is lying around,
doesn't count,
doesn't count.
You're going to find
after five years,
I think I'll leave
the government pens there.
You see what I mean?
You're narrowing
what's acceptable
for you personally.
But the instinctual drives
are still operating.
And maybe
you're at work
and you,
did I talk about this earlier?
And you
decide to go over
and just flirt
a little bit
with the secretary
just for the fun of it.
Even your wife would see
it's just kidding.
And you just have
this little joke
and then you stop.
You would call that
a half of a degree
course correction.
I just slid
this tiny,
tiny much
off of
the spiritual path.
And you know what happens.
It just,
as time goes on,
you're further out here
just by making
the tiniest little
exception
in what would be
what we know
should be done.
And as we
allow that to happen,
then we
become more flexible
in allowing other things
to happen.
And suddenly,
we're engaged
in things
and finally our sponsor
goes,
stop this,
stop that,
stop this,
get back,
all right,
boom,
and we're back.
So you see,
the tiniest little thing
will cause us
to get off
the spiritual course.
If that can happen
to a human being,
it can happen
to an AA group.
It could just happen
with the tiniest
little thing.
I'm just making
something up.
An old timer says,
look,
my mother,
is going to be
in town for
two months.
She's not an alcoholic.
She's an old lady.
Could she come
to our closed meeting?
And we go,
what harm could that do?
You follow what I'm saying?
So it's closed meeting
with an exception.
So then somebody comes
who's a gambler
and says,
well, you let an old lady in,
why can't a gambler come?
Well, if a gambler comes,
why can't this guy come?
Well, you know what I mean?
You just went,
and then off we went.
I'm just,
there's other ways
that a group
can get off
a spiritual path
and become something else,
an intellectual discussion group,
whatever the hell
you want to call it.
So if a group can do that,
so could AA itself.
It could just
sit and go,
we need more members.
I'm just making something up.
We need more members.
Our membership isn't growing fast.
We're shrinking a little bit.
What can we do
to increase membership?
Well, we could not frighten people away
with telling, you know,
they think AA is too religious.
We could make it look more philosophical
than it is.
We could do this.
We could do that.
Maybe good motives, whatever.
So what I'm proposing is,
we need a navigation aid
that'll keep us on course
as individuals, groups,
and the fellowship as a whole.
And I would say that it's very simple.
One problem, one solution.
Alcoholism, God.
That's it.
So my, I'm an alcoholic.
And I have a perfect solution.
To find God.
And that's the end of the ball game.
And if we are trying to navigate
to accommodate anything else,
it's, we've started leaving,
and who knows where it'll take us.
That's enough on that.
I could talk for several hours.
What are your thoughts about evil?
Oh.
I love evil.
I was giving a talk on forgiveness
at the Tampa Fall Roundup.
I don't know why this reminded me of it.
I'm going to be serious about this question.
But it was on forgiveness.
And I pulled the question out,
and it said, what about Hitler?
And I thought about it,
and I realized that's the exact question
I would have written
if some guy was up there preaching forgiveness.
I was going to show him,
what about Hitler?
And so I said, ah, the loophole question.
We got to find a loophole in this forgiveness thing,
and Hitler's probably a good way to create a loophole.
Once we create a loophole that you don't forgive Hitler,
then I won't have to forgive my brother-in-law.
So I said, I forgive Hitler.
So that closed that.
So I don't know.
Evil makes me think of Hitler.
So what are your thoughts about evil?
Do you believe evil exists?
What does one do about it?
Okay, so here you can see I'm going to deviate
from religions quite a bit,
and I don't believe it exists.
And I'm sure you're going, well, you're wrong.
I probably am, but let me tell you what I think.
I don't believe that darkness exists.
Darkness cannot come into this room
while the lights are on,
and we won't be able to see each other.
The lights have to go out for darkness to exist.
So darkness is not an entity unto itself.
It's merely the absence of light.
There's only light, or the absence of light.
There's no force called darkness that can come in
and overpower light.
Do you see what I mean?
So there's only one thing, light, or the absence.
So there's only one thing, love,
or the absence of light.
Or the absence of love.
And in the absence,
we have this label that we could call evil.
And so it is,
we get so far away from God
that we think we've encountered evil,
when in reality it's simply,
there's no connection left,
there's nothing but self-centeredness
and the instinctual drives running the whole show.
And it looks like evil took over.
But as we turn around and come back,
we start seeing evil,
whatever we would call that,
losing its power until it just doesn't exist.
But somehow you have to explain
all the horrible things that happen,
and I could see where that's a good way of saying,
well, there's evil and it goes around the world
and it does all these things.
But in my own life,
which is the only reference point I have,
I really don't see evil knocking on my door
and saying, I'm here, you're through.
It is all connected to,
conscious contact and conscious separation.
And conscious separation will create something
that you could call evil,
which is removed when you have conscious contact.
So that's,
and I hope the churches will forgive me.
What is self-consciousness?
Well, I don't know what it's going to say in the dictionary,
but we have different,
we have different ways.
One is an inordinate
awareness of our self,
so that as we proceed along,
we're just measuring
how people are reacting to us.
And their reaction causes us
all kinds of adverse feelings
and we struggle to cause behaviors in others
so that we get approval
and all of that.
I'm just so self-conscious.
I'm so aware of me and my feelings
everywhere I go.
Now the other thing would be the conscious,
if we could become conscious
of our true selves,
then that would be a huge positive thing.
That is really the point.
As we discover God,
we discover our true selves
and they all merge into one.
So I see two sides to that.
Are we near the end?
We're at the end.
I just got the flag from the back.
We are now calling this session to an end
and thank you all for your attention
and great questions.
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